Pakistan All Time XI vs India All Time XI: Who Would Win?

[dildildalwalla]

In terms of an ODI match

Pakistan:
Saeed Anwar
Zaheer Abbas
Javed Miandad
Inzamam Ul Haq
Mohammad Yousuf
Imran Khan
Moin Khan
Shahid Afridi
Wasim Akram
Waqar Younis
Saqlain Mushtaq

India:
Virendar Sehwag
Sunil Gavaskar
Sachin Tendulkar
Mohd Azharuddin
Saurav Ganguly
Kapil Dev
MS Dhoni
Manoj Pabharkar
Javagal Srinath
Anil Kumble
Zaheer Khan

These are the best teams I could come up with. But they are subject to change

Big question is. Who would win and who is stronger?

I personally would pick different players across both teams but either way, Pak would win 9/10 times. Pak have historically beaten India in over 70 ODIs whereas India have just about had 50 wins. Most of the players selected from India would have lost more than won against Pak lol

 

[TestMatch]

What the OP is really asking is whether Dravid, Tendulkar and Gavaskar can withstand Imran Khan, Wasim Akram, Saqlain Mushtaq, Waqar and Akhtar.

I would pay good money to watch that.

 

[Buffet]

What the OP is really asking is whether Dravid, Tendulkar and Gavaskar can withstand Imran Khan, Wasim Akram, Saqlain Mushtaq, Waqar and Akhtar.

Answer will vary a lot depending on if we are talking about pre-camera days or post camera days. Depending on time frame, one group will have advantage over another.

 

[Vayuu]

All time pak 11
Anwar
Abbas
Miandad
Haq
Yousuf
Imran
Moin
Afridi
Saqlain
Wasim
Waqar

India 11
Sachin
Sehwag
Virat
Azhar
Yuvraj
Raina
Dhoni
Kapil
Kumble
Zaheer
Srinath

 

[Syed1]

All time pak 11
Anwar
Abbas
Miandad
Haq
Yousuf
Imran
Moin
Afridi
Saqlain
Wasim
Waqar

India 11
Sachin
Sehwag
Virat
Azhar
Yuvraj
Raina
Dhoni
Kapil
Kumble
Zaheer
Srinath

You mean to say most of India's ATGs have played after the year 2000?

 

[Citizen4]

easy! Pak will win, look at the ATG squads, Pak have it all, both ATG bowlers and ATG batsmen, India on the other hand have never produced even a single true ATG bowler.

 

[akki]

I personally would pick different players across both teams but either way, Pak would win 9/10 times. Pak have historically beaten India in over 70 ODIs whereas India have just about had 50 wins. Most of the players selected from India would have lost more than won against Pak lol

Then why you guys only win limca shimca cups but never beat in the most imp matches in history, like world cup games, where the whole world is like paused at that time..
We would love to win those games and make memories rather than watching limca shimca,kitli pitli cups.

 

[akki]

I personally would pick different players across both teams but either way, Pak would win 9/10 times. Pak have historically beaten India in over 70 ODIs whereas India have just about had 50 wins. Most of the players selected from India would have lost more than won against Pak lol

easy! Pak will win, look at the ATG squads, Pak have it all, both ATG bowlers and ATG batsmen, India on the other hand have never produced even a single true ATG bowler.

i think it depends wheather the match is most imp like world cup match or any random limca ,kitli cup.....

 

[marlonbrowndo]

Pakistan easily

 

[Ph_11]

This is a no brainer. India.

 

[Balthazar]

You mean to say most of India's ATGs have played after the year 2000?

Yes, when you consider ODIs.
As for the OP is concerned, if it's a typical batting pitch then India it is.
On a bowling pitch anything is possible but I would go with extra bowler in place of Raina.

 

[Vayuu]

You mean to say most of India's ATGs have played after the year 2000?

In Odi's yes,lot of pak odi players of today or 5-6 years ago wouldn't walk into pak all time 11 on the other hand Kohli, yuvi, dhoni, Raina will deffo walk into AT odi 11 of India

 

[Vayuu]

In Odi's yes,lot of pak odi players of today or 5-6 years ago wouldn't walk into pak all time 11 on the other hand Kohli, yuvi, dhoni, Raina will deffo walk into AT odi 11 of India

I would like to add another point, for those saying not much difference between moin and dhoni U got to be kidding,dhoni the keeper might not be as good as moin, but dhoni the captain, batter and finisher wipes the floor with moin,pak may have an atg bowling line up, but in sehwag, Tendulkar, Kohli, azhar, yuvi, Raina, dhoni, kapil they have unarguably the most destructive batting line up in the Asia, not to forget their bowling is not bad as well, but the most important part will be fielding,this will be one of the best fielding unit in Asia.

 

[Vayuu]

Other thing is wasim waqar and imran are one of the best exponent of Yorker, whereas Kohli, dhoni, yuvi and Raina are one of the best hitters of Yorker, so it would be some contest.

 

[srh]

I would get rid of Ganguly and put Mohinder Amarnath in there as he is to me the greatest batsmen of pace. Get rid of Ahzar and put Dravid in & last but not least remove Prabhakar and put in Praveen Kumar.. A team like that woulld be very hard to beat.

Its crazy to replace Azhar with Dravid in ODIs

 

[adit_sh]

nice discussions on paper. Rather it should be like

WC92 Pak team vs WC 2011 Ind team ? In Aus and in Ind/pak

WC83 Ind team vs WC 87 Pak team( World Series in Australia had this match in 85 twice)

 

[Bilal7]

Pakistan would win both, a test and ODI series. India would be a highly imbalanced team with some of the greatest batsmen of all time lining up with some pretty ordinary (for an all-time) bowlers. Pakistan is highly balanced and has great batsmen, bowlers and spinners which is why they will win.

 

[Bilal7]

Other thing is wasim waqar and imran are one of the best exponent of Yorker, whereas Kohli, dhoni, yuvi and Raina are one of the best hitters of Yorker, so it would be some contest.

Junaid and Irfan made it no contest last time around.

 

[Bilal7]

Its crazy to replace Azhar with Dravid in ODIs

Dravid was a poor ODI player. Mohammad Azharuddin is one of India's best and deserves to be in there.

 

[Snow]

If you take WC 99/92/03/07 squad against best Indian squad, everyone from other side of border will say that each of that team will be able to beat India 9 out of 10 times. But we all know the reality.

 

[adit_sh]

If you take WC 99/92/03/07 squad against best Indian squad, everyone from other side of border will say that each of that team will be able to beat India 9 out of 10 times. But we all know the reality.

whats your point - win the 1/10 that matters

 

[Joseph Gomes]

If Kohli is in form no Pakistan XI can beat India if India is chasing. Not for just one match but entire series. He is the biggest X-factor.

 

[Vayuu]

Junaid and Irfan made it no contest last time around.

That was one of the most liveliest pitches ever, won't see them for most part.

 

[Vayuu]

Pakistan would win both, a test and ODI series. India would be a highly imbalanced team with some of the greatest batsmen of all time lining up with some pretty ordinary (for an all-time) bowlers. Pakistan is highly balanced and has great batsmen, bowlers and spinners which is why they will win.

Nah, the bowlers although not upto pak standards of old are still pretty handy, what u are conviently forgetting is that Indian batsmen will be better runners and Indian fielding will be much better.

 

[tomato]

India

 

[RamLakhan]

Total ODIs between these 2 teams- 120

Pakistan Won- 69
India Won- 47.

So yeah Pakistan easily will win and our record against India is a proof of this.

This could have got evened up by now had we continued to play more matches, bilaterals between. We had similar record against England, but then we surpassed them after playing lot more ODIs (than during cricket's early days where England dominated) and our team got stronger!

Same goes with test matches (at least the margin would have come down a lot!)

 

[JaDed]

India because we will have better fielders in ODI and T20 not to forget match awareness.

Test would be 50-50 depending upon conditions.

 

[RamLakhan]

Indian XI:

Sehwag
Ganguly
Kohli
Sachin
Yuvaraj
Dhoni (c )
Kapil
Jadeja
Kumble
Srinath
Zaheer

Pakistan XI:

Saeed Anwar
Shoaib Malik
Inzamam
Miandad
Mohammed Yousuf
Imran Khan (c)
Moin Khan
Afridi
Akram
Akther
Saqlain

No doubt that Pakistan looks strong when you take the whole cricket history into consideration. But if you observe the trending and the future, the real shock comes how none of the current Pakistani players can knock the doors of even their own country's all time XI !!! This is what matters now! How the cricket is progressing and Indian cricket fans are happy about that... But I agree that Pakistani players even now will develop lot more intensity & eager to win once they start playing India! It will be real contest then with Pakistan's natural talent challenging the lot more professional/evolved Indian outfit!

 

[IMMY69]

This could have got evened up by now had we continued to play more matches, bilaterals between. We had similar record against England, but then we surpassed them after playing lot more ODIs (than during cricket's early days where England dominated) and our team got stronger!

Same goes with test matches (at least the margin would have come down a lot!)

and I was under the impression that, until recent years, England never took ODI's seriously..

They were only into test matches and never took ODI's that seriously. Nor did they play as many ODI's as the sub continent teams.

 

[Napa]

In terms of an ODI match

Pakistan:
Saeed Anwar
Zaheer Abbas
Javed Miandad
Inzamam Ul Haq
Mohammad Yousuf
Imran Khan
Moin Khan
Shahid Afridi
Wasim Akram
Waqar Younis
Saqlain Mushtaq

India:
Virendar Sehwag
Sunil Gavaskar
Sachin Tendulkar
Mohd Azharuddin
Saurav Ganguly
Kapil Dev
MS Dhoni
Manoj Pabharkar
Javagal Srinath
Anil Kumble
Zaheer Khan

These are the best teams I could come up with. But they are subject to change

Big question is. Who would win and who is stronger?

Given that India has beaten Pakistan 6-0 in the biggest ODI games across decades which features all the players in the above lists the answer should be obvious to anyone capable of even elementary analysis.

 

[Bilal7]

Nah, the bowlers although not upto pak standards of old are still pretty handy, what u are conviently forgetting is that Indian batsmen will be better runners and Indian fielding will be much better.

Handy bowlers won't be stopping the likes of Abbas, Inzamam, Miandad and Anwar from helping Pakistan get a score of 300+ consistently. Wasim, Waqar, Imran, Saqlain and Afridi/Razzaq won't be conceding 300+ to any batting lineup consistently.

This could have got evened up by now had we continued to play more matches, bilaterals between. We had similar record against England, but then we surpassed them after playing lot more ODIs (than during cricket's early days where England dominated) and our team got stronger!

Same goes with test matches (at least the margin would have come down a lot!)

The ODI record might have been closer but Pakistan would have extended their advantage in test matches.

 

[Vayuu]

Handy bowlers won't be stopping the likes of Abbas, Inzamam, Miandad and Anwar from helping Pakistan get a score of 300+ consistently. Wasim, Waqar, Imran, Saqlain and Afridi/Razzaq won't be conceding 300+ to any batting lineup consistently.



The ODI record might have been closer but Pakistan would have extended their advantage in test matches.

this Indian lineup has gun chasers,and explosive openers, who can set target, the same waqar was smashed by jadeja in 96wc ,and with kohli,dhoni,yuvi,raina can tear any bowling line up apart, not to forget ur fielding will be ur biggest frustration, with Sachin and sehwag u know they can set the tone and mind you with cameras around, ,the reverse swing will be nullified to an extent, I'll back our team to outbat and outfield you. In tests
It will be a 50-50 call the thing is our lot can score aggressively

 

[Bilal7]

this Indian lineup has gun chasers,and explosive openers, who can set target, the same waqar was smashed by jadeja in 96wc ,and with kohli,dhoni,yuvi,raina can tear any bowling line up apart, not to forget ur fielding will be ur biggest frustration, with Sachin and sehwag u know they can set the tone and mind you with cameras around, ,the reverse swing will be nullified to an extent, I'll back our team to outbat and outfield you. In tests
It will be a 50-50 call the thing is our lot can score aggressively

One bad day doesn't mean anything. Like I said before, Junaid, Irfan, Ajmal and even Riaz have taken apart that ATG batting lineup over the course of four-five matches. That is more significant than what Jadeja did to Waqar once.

Yuvi and Raina are no match for Wasim, Waqar, Imran and Saqlain in ODIs. Three of the Pakistanis are ATG bowlers while the other is an ATG all-rounder. Kohli isn't at that level either, not yet anyways. Sachin and Dhoni are but I can't see Dhoni doing much against such an intimidating bowling attack if he doesn't have a good enough platform. It'll basically be Sachin vs Pakistan all over again.

The Kumars and Kapils will mot be hard to score off and won't be taking many Pakistani wickets. An average of 30 isn't impressive and they will ensure that even if India do get a good score, they won't be able to defend it against mentally strong batters like Miandad and Inzamam.

The Indian fielding isn't great enough to make this a valid strength. Sehwag, Zaheer and Sachin weren't the best of fielders, if you would recall.

Pakistan will have the edge because they are an all-round great team whereas India have a great batting lineup but do not have the bowling strength needed to win games of cricket. This will hurt them even more in test cricket.

 

[Bilal7]

Opening bowler: Wasim Akram
Opening bowler: Imran Khan
First change: Waqar Younis
First spinner: Saeed Ajmal
Second Spinner: Saqlain Mushtaq

No batting lineup is scoring 300+ against this bowling attack barring a really off day or a fluke performance. There is no let-up, no bowler that can be targeted. Pace, swing, seam, off-spin, doosra, yorkers, bouncers. You name it, this attack provides it.

However, I would play either Afridi or Razzaq in place of Ajmal to strengthen the batting line-up.

 

[Hitman]

Opening bowler: Wasim Akram
Opening bowler: Imran Khan
First change: Waqar Younis
First spinner: Saeed Ajmal
Second Spinner: Saqlain Mushtaq

No batting lineup is scoring 300+ against this bowling attack barring a really off day or a fluke performance. There is no let-up, no bowler that can be targeted. Pace, swing, seam, off-spin, doosra, yorkers, bouncers. You name it, this attack provides it.

However, I would play either Afridi or Razzaq in place of Ajmal to strengthen the batting line-up.

You can't play him either ways (no team can for such a bowler.... erm, I mean chucker), if you know what I mean.

 

[RamLakhan]

Opening bowler: Wasim Akram
Opening bowler: Imran Khan
First change: Waqar Younis
First spinner: Saeed Ajmal
Second Spinner: Saqlain Mushtaq

No batting lineup is scoring 300+ against this bowling attack barring a really off day or a fluke performance. There is no let-up, no bowler that can be targeted. Pace, swing, seam, off-spin, doosra, yorkers, bouncers. You name it, this attack provides it.

However, I would play either Afridi or Razzaq in place of Ajmal to strengthen the batting line-up.

The question is not about scoring 300, but winning the game. India actually got its best batsmen post 1995 (or better 2000) and still the culture is running. And Pakistan had best bowlers only before 2000. So that was a contest between best bowling vs. average batsmen! I don't think guys like Sehwag, Rohit, Kohli, Yuvaraj, Dhoni, etc, would struggle so much against Wasim & co. (Given today's batting rules, powerplay, etc). Sehwag gave that hint during that period where we had good bilateral tour sharing between us! Same Akther, Wasim were smashed once modern batsmen came in (Even Sachin who faced problems before started gaining confidence once he had the company of good batting unit and he was no more an one man army!) Now please don't attribute this to aging of Wasim & form-loss of Akther. There are various parameters to consider here (as I said we never had batters like Sehwag, Yuvaraj, Kohli or even Rohit in the past! Similarly you don't have bowlers like Wasim, Waquar, Imran or even Akther anymore now!)

Even if you give the bowling friendly conditions our bowlers "now" are intelligent enough to tackle the Pakistani batsmen (of any era) backed with agile fielders (even if the scoreline is 150-200 par)

And also note that the same Pakistani team in the past were almost getting beaten similar to India against stronger teams like Australia, West Indies, South Africa... But now we are doing very well against all these teams compared to past (We recently whitewashed Australia in a T20 series played in Australia!) while Pakistan is struggling! (So you cannot tell that India is not playing against Pakistan today to find out the actual scenario! Though even I think it would have so better and so sweet if India and Pakistan were playing with each other a lot today just for the sake of domination setting aside politics & securities! Actually the pitches in Pakistan are ideally suited for our style of batting and bowling today, much more than in India! It would have been so sweet!)

Basically you are living in the past (while we are at least living in the present!) Anyhow we are not ignoring the past, but definitely we cannot accept that our all time XI will struggle against yours! It will be even contest.

Since this is an arbitrary concept, choosing playing XI from all time, the question also arises "when" these teams will play against each other? If it is today (today's rules & trend), India will definitely have the upper hand. If it is/was played sometime in the past, Pakistan will have the edge! Basically I am trying to tell that Pakistan had a superior team in the past, while India is definitely miles ahead today! And "today" matters the most even if anyone disagree (the only thing is you can hope for a better "tomorrow"!)

 

[Chrish]

Would have loved seeing SRT battling two Ws in 90s. We were robbed from some sensational cricket

 

[Bilal7]

The question is not about scoring 300, but winning the game. India actually got its best batsmen post 1995 (or better 2000) and still the culture is running. And Pakistan had best bowlers only before 2000. So that was a contest between best bowling vs. average batsmen! I don't think guys like Sehwag, Rohit, Kohli, Yuvaraj, Dhoni, etc, would struggle so much against Wasim & co. (Given today's batting rules, powerplay, etc). Sehwag gave that hint during that period where we had good bilateral tour sharing between us! Same Akther, Wasim were smashed once modern batsmen came in (Even Sachin who faced problems before started gaining confidence once he had the company of good batting unit and he was no more an one man army!) Now please don't attribute this to aging of Wasim & form-loss of Akther. There are various parameters to consider here (as I said we never had batters like Sehwag, Yuvaraj, Kohli or even Rohit in the past! Similarly you don't have bowlers like Wasim, Waquar, Imran or even Akther anymore now!)

Even if you give the bowling friendly conditions our bowlers "now" are intelligent enough to tackle the Pakistani batsmen (of any era) backed with agile fielders (even if the scoreline is 150-200 par)

And also note that the same Pakistani team in the past were almost getting beaten similar to India against stronger teams like Australia, West Indies, South Africa... But now we are doing very well against all these teams compared to past (We recently whitewashed Australia in a T20 series played in Australia!) while Pakistan is struggling! (So you cannot tell that India is not playing against Pakistan today to find out the actual scenario! Though even I think it would have so better and so sweet if India and Pakistan were playing with each other a lot today just for the sake of domination setting aside politics & securities! Actually the pitches in Pakistan are ideally suited for our style of batting and bowling today, much more than in India! It would have been so sweet!)

Basically you are living in the past (while we are at least living in the present!) Anyhow we are not ignoring the past, but definitely we cannot accept that our all time XI will struggle against yours! It will be even contest.

Since this is an arbitrary concept, choosing playing XI from all time, the question also arises "when" these teams will play against each other? If it is today (today's rules & trend), India will definitely have the upper hand. If it is/was played sometime in the past, Pakistan will have the edge! Basically I am trying to tell that Pakistan had a superior team in the past, while India is definitely miles ahead today! And "today" matters the most even if anyone disagree (the only thing is you can hope for a better "tomorrow"!)

India is ahead in ODIs today and have been for several years now because Pakistan doesn't have bowlers at the level of Wasim or Waqar anymore. The batting has also gone from containing Zaheer Abbas, Miandad and Anwar to Misbah, Akmal and Hafeez. This does not in any way, shape or form mean that if the best Indian players face the best Pakistani players, the former would win. They wouldn't because India have never had any great ODI bowlers. No matter the era, time, day, etc.

Pakistan have had both great batsmen and great bowlers and when you combine those two, you get a great team that would beat a lopsided team like India 8 times out of 10.

As for your claim that the Indian batsmen are more intelligent and would handle Wasim and Waqar in bowling-friendly conditions, let me take you back on a painful ride to 2012. The "Aaney do" series where Junaid, Irfan and Gul ripped your batting lineup apart - containing Sehwag, Gambhir, Kohli, Raina, Yuvraj, Dhoni and Rohit - three times out of three. Nothing else needs to be said in this regard, India will get smashed if the game takes place in conditions that favor the pacers.

No one is arguing against the fact that India has a better ODI team today. Just don't let that fool you into thinking that India have been the better ODI team always, which is simply not true and the opposite is in fact, the truth. In tests, Pakistan would win past, present or going by some of the emerging talent we are seeing, the future as well.

 

[akki]

India is ahead in ODIs today and have been for several years now because Pakistan doesn't have bowlers at the level of Wasim or Waqar anymore. The batting has also gone from containing Zaheer Abbas, Miandad and Anwar to Misbah, Akmal and Hafeez. This does not in any way, shape or form mean that if the best Indian players face the best Pakistani players, the former would win. They wouldn't because India have never had any great ODI bowlers. No matter the era, time, day, etc.

Pakistan have had both great batsmen and great bowlers and when you combine those two, you get a great team that would beat a lopsided team like India 8 times out of 10.

As for your claim that the Indian batsmen are more intelligent and would handle Wasim and Waqar in bowling-friendly conditions, let me take you back on a painful ride to 2012. The "Aaney do" series where Junaid, Irfan and Gul ripped your batting lineup apart - containing Sehwag, Gambhir, Kohli, Raina, Yuvraj, Dhoni and Rohit - three times out of three. Nothing else needs to be said in this regard, India will get smashed if the game takes place in conditions that favor the pacers.

No one is arguing against the fact that India has a better ODI team today. Just don't let that fool you into thinking that India have been the better ODI team always, which is simply not true and the opposite is in fact, the truth. In tests, Pakistan would win past, present or going by some of the emerging talent we are seeing, the future as well.

you guys just won 1 extra match in so much aane do jane do rukne do crap series by winning tosses in bowling first lottery matches due to the condition of pitches. ...what about champions trophy,world cup, asia cup & world cup t20 match after that....

 

[akki]

you guys just won 1 extra match in so much aane do jane do rukne do crap series by winning tosses in bowling first lottery matches due to the condition of pitches. ...what about champions trophy,world cup, asia cup & world cup t20 match after that....

Exclude the toss thing, i'm not able to edit . pakistan didnt win all tosses . but my point of view is still that you guys only won 1 extra match in aane do series .And indian batting is full of legends plus blowers and fielders are good as well..pakistan team cant handle pressure , plus fielding is very poor as well

 

[Bilal7]

Exclude the toss thing, i'm not able to edit . pakistan didnt win all tosses . but my point of view is still that you guys only won 1 extra match in aane do series .And indian batting is full of legends plus blowers and fielders are good as well..pakistan team cant handle pressure , plus fielding is very poor as well

Indian team is definitely full of blowers. What they don't have are bowlers which is why they will get smacked all around the park. It's not the number of matches won in that series that is significant (even though winning the first two matches of a three match series is pretty significant), it is the fact that we bowled you guys out for 240, 160 and 160 in the three matches despite all those batting legends.

Miandad would have something to say about that "cant handle pressure" (sic) line and I don't see how a team containing Sehwag, Zaheer and Sachin can be significantly better in the fielding department.

 

[Princejain191]

Indian team, even when it was average, was better than Pakistan in pressure situations and the new breed of players are even better. India vs. Pakistan, assuming a huge all-star all-or-nothing match up, would be certainly a pressure game.

I can see three ways how the game could play out:
1. India dominate, and get an easy win
2. A close match and India wins
3. A close match and Pakistan wins (ideally when defending)

Would bet on India to win though.

 

[PakLFC]

Close match but Pak will win due to having the better bowling attack. India's advantage in being the better batting side is not that great wen it comes to all time great teams. Pak has produced great batsmen much more then they have great bowlers.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

How can Indians even argue against this? Any team would get dominated by an attack consisting of Wasim, Waqar, Imran, Shoaib and Saqlain.

 

[Citizen4]

How can Indians even argue against this? Any team would get dominated by an attack consisting of Wasim, Waqar, Imran, Shoaib and Saqlain.

that's the thing, Indians never had a single truly great bowler, so their best ever team is not a balanced side.
On the other hand Pakistani best ever team have everything in both bowling and batting.

 

[Third_Umpire]

Pakistan easily.

India's batting will be hands down stronger, with the likes to Kohli, Sehwag, Dhoni, Tendulkar, etc. Pakistan's batting, while weaker, could put up a fight with Anwar, Inzi, Miandad.

India's batting will have to content with Pakistan's world class bowling, Imran, Wasim, Waqar, Saqlain, Qadir, etc. While Pakistan's batting will have to deal with a hopeless bunch, of which only Kapil and Kumble can be considered somewhat world class. The rest will be made up of Srinath, and I don't even know who else.

Fielding advantage probably goes to India given recent form, but if you talk about ATGs fielding will probably such both ways.

 

[Chrish]

Pakistan team doesn't have "everything" in batting department; the sole reason both teams fall behind all time SA/ WI/ Aus in comparison.

 

[Bilal7]

Pakistan team doesn't have "everything" in batting department; the sole reason both teams fall behind all time SA/ WI/ Aus in comparison.

Those three are also balanced teams. Pakistan vs South Africa would be very even. The venue would decide the victor.

 

[Chrish]

Sunil Gavaskar
Sehwag
Rahul Dravid
Sachin Tendulkar
Vijay Hazare
Vinoo Mankad
Farokh Engineer
Kapil Dev
Ravi Ashwin
Anil Kumble
Javagal Srinath

Putting forward XI of your choice would be a good start.. This would be my XI for India.

 

[Chrish]

Those three are also balanced teams. Pakistan vs South Africa would be very even. The venue would decide the victor.

Not really.. There is a gulp between quality of batsmen from both sides especially considering the quality of all-rounders SA have consistently produced.

SA Xi is right up there at the very top with Windies and Aus Xi.

 

[Bilal7]

Pakistan in tests:

1) Saeed Anwar
2) Zaheer Abbas
3) Younis Khan
4) Javed Miandad
5) Inzamam-ul-Haq
6) Imran Khan (c)
7) Sarfaraz Ahmed (wk)
8) Wasim Akram
9) Waqar Younis
10) Saqlain Mushtaq
11) Abdul Qadir/Shoaib Akhtar/Mohammad Asif - Depending on the pitch.

 

[Bilal7]

Not really.. There is a gulp between quality of batsmen from both sides especially considering the quality of all-rounders SA have consistently produced.

SA Xi is right up there at the very top with Windies and Aus Xi.

That is balanced out by the gulf between the bowlers. South Africa have nothing that matches up to the best ODI bowler of all time and the best ODI spinner of all time, not to mention Waqar, Imran, Ajmal, Akhtar, etc.

 

[Citizen4]

Pakistan in tests:

1) Saeed Anwar
2) Zaheer Abbas
3) Younis Khan
4) Javed Miandad
5) Inzamam-ul-Haq
6) Imran Khan (c)
7) Sarfaraz Ahmed (wk)
8) Wasim Akram
9) Waqar Younis
10) Saqlain Mushtaq
11) Abdul Qadir/Shoaib Akhtar/Mohammad Asif - Depending on the pitch.

every single player in this line up is a match winner be it batsman bowler or allrounder, same cannot be said about Indian line up because no true bowling great

 

[Bilal7]

1) West Indies XI
2) Australian XI
3) Pakistan XI
4) South African XI
5) Indian XI
6) Sri Lanka XI
7) New Zealand XI
8) English XI

This is how I would rate them.

 

[Chrish]

That is balanced out by the gulf between the bowlers. South Africa have nothing that matches up to the best ODI bowler of all time and the best ODI spinner of all time, not to mention Waqar, Imran, Ajmal, Akhtar, etc.

LOL didn't even realize discussion was about ODI.. Thought it was about test. Nevermind my bad.

 

[ahmedwaqas92]

West Indies of the Late 70s/Early-Mid 80s would pummel everyone with their eyes closed......

 

[Bilal7]

Pakistan in ODIs:

1) Saeed Anwar
2) Zaheer Abbas
3) Javed Miandad
4) Mohammad Yousuf
5) Inzamam-ul-Haq
6) Imran Khan (c)
7) Moin Khan (wk)
8) Wasim Akram
9) Waqar Younis
10) Saqlain Mushtaq
11) Saeed Ajmal

Zero weak links in the bowling department. Literally no let off with five ATG level bowlers coming at you one after the other. The batting lineup, while nowhere as great is still good enough to score 300+ and chase it down, if the need ever arises. They won't need to score more than 270 though.

 

[Bilal7]

LOL didn't even realize discussion was about ODI.. Thought it was about test. Nevermind my bad.

Oh, tests would be a totally different game. South Africa have the third best test team for sure. The likes of Smith, Kallis and Steyn turn from good players to great ones with the white jersey.

 

[Ellipsism]

Pakistan in ODIs:

1) Saeed Anwar
2) Zaheer Abbas
3) Javed Miandad
4) Mohammad Yousuf
5) Inzamam-ul-Haq
6) Imran Khan (c)
7) Moin Khan (wk)
8) Wasim Akram
9) Waqar Younis
10) Saqlain Mushtaq
11) Saeed Ajmal

Zero weak links in the bowling department. Literally no let off with five ATG level bowlers coming at you one after the other. The batting lineup, while nowhere as great is still good enough to score 300+ and chase it down, if the need ever arises. They won't need to score more than 270 though.

In what world does Ajmal make the Pakistan All Time XI.

 

[ahmedwaqas92]

Pakistan in ODIs:

1) Saeed Anwar
2) Zaheer Abbas
3) Javed Miandad
4) Mohammad Yousuf
5) Inzamam-ul-Haq
6) Imran Khan (c)
7) Moin Khan (wk)
8) Wasim Akram
9) Waqar Younis
10) Saqlain Mushtaq
11) Saeed Ajmal

Zero weak links in the bowling department. Literally no let off with five ATG level bowlers coming at you one after the other. The batting lineup, while nowhere as great is still good enough to score 300+ and chase it down, if the need ever arises. They won't need to score more than 270 though.

You can't have two off spinners in the same line up, assigned to practically achieve the same thing in an ODI so one of Saqi or Ajmal has to go and if it comes down to it......Saqi wins it by a country mile.

That gives us 1 spot extra which should include a bowling all rounder who should also be a (hitter+Slogger)

If I am playing in Asia, and as much as I hate to admit this , Afridi would make the team (Gives us a leggie + Late order Slogger)

If I am playing outside Asia then no better choice than Razzaq (Seriously A prime Razzaq would walk into most lineups in a breeze tbh.....)

 

[English August]

Forget about the fans on both sides bragging about their respective teams.

But in which planet does Azhar make India's all-time greatest ODI team ahead of Kohli? India top 7 pick themselves -- SRT, Viru, Ganguly, Kohli, Yuvraj, Dhoni and Kapil. Among the bowlers Kumble, Srinath and Zaheer pick themselves too. So that leaves just one bowling spot up in the air. I'd make that pick based on the conditions: in swinging conditions in England I could go with Prabhakar or Roger Binny, in Aus / SA I could go with Agarkar or Shami, in India it could be Harbhajan or Ashwin.

 

[LegendAli]

) Afridi in Pakistan XI but no Kohli in Indian XI.

 

[Vayuu]

One bad day doesn't mean anything. Like I said before, Junaid, Irfan, Ajmal and even Riaz have taken apart that ATG batting lineup over the course of four-five matches. That is more significant than what Jadeja did to Waqar once.

Yuvi and Raina are no match for Wasim, Waqar, Imran and Saqlain in ODIs. Three of the Pakistanis are ATG bowlers while the other is an ATG all-rounder. Kohli isn't at that level either, not yet anyways. Sachin and Dhoni are but I can't see Dhoni doing much against such an intimidating bowling attack if he doesn't have a good enough platform. It'll basically be Sachin vs Pakistan all over again.

The Kumars and Kapils will mot be hard to score off and won't be taking many Pakistani wickets. An average of 30 isn't impressive and they will ensure that even if India do get a good score, they won't be able to defend it against mentally strong batters like Miandad and Inzamam.

The Indian fielding isn't great enough to make this a valid strength. Sehwag, Zaheer and Sachin weren't the best of fielders, if you would recall.

Pakistan will have the edge because they are an all-round great team whereas India have a great batting lineup but do not have the bowling strength needed to win games of cricket. This will hurt them even more in test cricket.

Kapil, yuvi, Raina ,azhar, are far superior fielders than any atg pak put not to forget they are better athletes as well, Kohli and dhoni included and they don't rely on just power hitting beside miandad I don't see any better Runner between wicket, u underestimate the bowlers at ur own peril, most importantly this team will be a fearless unit,with camera's all around the stadium, it will be hard to extract the crazy reverse swing, with 2 new ball rules and smaller grounds I can see Indian team will be more than match,most importantly, you can always count on fielders making sure it isn't easy peasy runs on fields with Inzi and yousuf rest assure their will be run out around the corner, beside the batters are smart and fielders are quick, I can see them going big in first 10 overs and rotating strike in next 25 overs, raising tempo in next 10 and going full Monty in last 5.

 

[RamLakhan]

Kapil, yuvi, Raina ,azhar, are far superior fielders than any atg pak put not to forget they are better athletes as well, Kohli and dhoni included and they don't rely on just power hitting beside miandad I don't see any better Runner between wicket, u underestimate the bowlers at ur own peril, most importantly this team will be a fearless unit,with camera's all around the stadium, it will be hard to extract the crazy reverse swing, with 2 new ball rules and smaller grounds I can see Indian team will be more than match,most importantly, you can always count on fielders making sure it isn't easy peasy runs on fields with Inzi and yousuf rest assure their will be run out around the corner, beside the batters are smart and fielders are quick, I can see them going big in first 10 overs and rotating strike in next 25 overs, raising tempo in next 10 and going full Monty in last 5.

You are absolutely right! Just because they have bowlers like Akram, Imran, Saqlain doesn't guarantee any win. You also made good points about camera/reverse swing, bowling, athleticism, professionalism, etc. As I said if the matches are played in the past, Pakistan will have better chance. But for today, India has at least 75% chance (in LOIs) no matter what they argue! One of the best bowler (for LOI) produced in today's era like Malinga was so cleverly handled by Kohli, Dhoni... I don't see any reason why our line up cannot negate those Pakistani bowlers of past (if played "today" ---> this is the key!)

I am stressing the point here so much that this "Best XI of all time" involves so many parameters (like playing conditions, playing eras/time, players at which part of their prime, etc, etc). So many so many parameters. Even in test matches players like Gavaskar, Dravid, Pujara will burn the hell out of Pakistani bowlers! Indian all time Test XI will feature these three players to negate any kind of ATG bowlers! (besides the aggressors like Sehwag, Sachin... For the moment Kohli's place in ATG team is not guaranteed)

Pakistanis seem to be so obsessed with their past legends as always! They need to worry about present and their sorry state! India are producing legends like Ashwin, Jadeja today to serve "today's" purpose! They don't need to compete with any past legends! Pakistan should be finding difficulty to produce even bowlers like Shami, Umesh... (let alone matching our batsmen! And fielding standards)

 

[Sanzcool]

On a true batting surface, India will win it 8/10 times.

On a bowling surface, it would be a good contest. Pakistan and chasing no better love story than that.

The massive advantage that India has is the running between wickets. With some1 like Inzi, the number of 2s will be restricted in the middle overs.

 

[roshanrocks]

All Time Indian ODI XI
Tendulkar
Sehwag
Ganguly
V.Kohli
Yuvraj Singh
Kapil Dev
MS Dhoni
Ashwin
Kumble
Srinath
Zaheer

Not sure if this is the best line up...

All Time Pakistan ODI XI
Saeed Anwar
Inzamam (I will send him to open to accomodate Z Abbas)
Z Abbas
Miandad
M Yousuf
Imran Khan
Wasim Akram
Moin Khan
Waqar
Shoaib
Saqlain M

 

[Arsalan Pro]

Like always it would be a competition between India's batting and Pakistan's bowling.

 

[RamLakhan]

All Time Indian ODI XI
Tendulkar
Sehwag
Ganguly
V.Kohli
Yuvraj Singh
Kapil Dev
MS Dhoni
Ashwin
Kumble
Srinath
Zaheer

That's exactly what I feel with only Jadeja edging Ashwin on current form and also considering how he goes in future (at least in LOIs). His fielding, running between wickets, accuracy in bowling and hopefully batting improvement... I thought the best fielder ever produced from India should feature in all time LOI team! Also we don't need only attackers/wicket-taking bowlers in ODIs! If Ashwin again surpasses Jadeja and recreates the magic, it will be so good for India actually, let's see though but I am not too optimistic about it! We may actually see new competitors!

Also Raina would have given competition for Yuvaraj if he was more consistent, as he evens out in fielding, probably he is a better fielder in the deep (sometimes this becomes important in LOIs!), while Yuvaraj is good in close-in and both are good in running between wickets. But Yuvaraj's prime is way too better than Raina. If Raina was at least consistent in his form, he would have got considered in ATG team. But still Raina is got to be 2nd best fielder ever for India (Azhar may be 3rd best).

LOIs have got so much renowned now and Pakistan team lags way too much. They (Pakistanis) are all welcome to restrict this ATG zone to 1995 or 2000, then they are definitely a better side. But after that it is just exponential rise & fall respectively for these two teams!

If Pakistanis talk so high about their legends and consider their team as Superior forever, then how about West Indies (for such a pathetic state of their team today failing to win even against Bangladesh, Ireland, etc, they can still boast like anything considering their deadly/monstrous/super-dynamic/devastating/fantabulous team of 70s/80s! If they have similar mindset like Pakistanis, then they should be even more proud & aggressive about their ATGs and never ever consider their current/ATG team as inferior! But inside their heart they will know the pain of "today"!)

 

[RamLakhan]

On the hindsight, I honestly hands down confess that Australia is light years ahead of all the teams considering their consistency and domination through out the entire history of cricket-game! Never ever they slipped out of giving fight (even with their weakest team! The recent series was the best example.) And at times of domination, they did it brutally well! They were the only team who challenged the mighty West Indies team comprehensively during those days!

So I consider the below stand for ranking the teams considering the entire history of cricket: (considering all formats and all eras)

1) Australia
.
.
.
2) England (for their test dominance for good part and still. They are actually not so bad in LOIs as some people think! They got up to so many finals of World cup & Champions trophy, T20 finals, won one T20)
3) South Africa (sorry for losing international cricket for big part and for their "choke" in crucial matches! Still their dominance-power, adopting to different conditions & skill-levels is in par with Australia & old West Indies!)
4) West Indies (for the huge impact of those glorious days! And still hints here & there for the way they can dominate the game! The recent T20 world cup was the evidence! They can actually bounce back any time if they come out of the sleep, but its unlikely because their interest has shifted out of cricket to other games!)
5) India (for the way they are trending in future & largely supported by the way they won the world cup so early even when the team was considered as minnows. But its actually the future & professionalism which can carry them forward and even go upper in this table provided other teams don't match up appropriately!)
6) Pakistan (for the way they are declining rapidly, but can surpass India if they can recover at least in next 2-3 years. But this actually requires a lot of professionalism & solid administration which is the key for today's success! Though everyone has hopes about their "talent production". Cricket has become lot more professional now!)
7) Srilanka
8) New Zealand (very rarely a threat outside their den!)

 

[dildildalwalla]

Then why you guys only win limca shimca cups but never beat in the most imp matches in history, like world cup games, where the whole world is like paused at that time..
We would love to win those games and make memories rather than watching limca shimca,kitli pitli cups.

shimca? limcA? what are you talking about? please go back to chennai

 

[dildildalwalla]

On the hindsight, I honestly hands down confess that Australia is light years ahead of all the teams considering their consistency and domination through out the entire history of cricket-game! Never ever they slipped out of giving fight (even with their weakest team! The recent series was the best example.) And at times of domination, they did it brutally well! They were the only team who challenged the mighty West Indies team comprehensively during those days!

So I consider the below stand for ranking the teams considering the entire history of cricket: (considering all formats and all eras)

1) Australia
.
.
.
2) England (for their test dominance for good part and still. They are actually not so bad in LOIs as some people think! They got up to so many finals of World cup & Champions trophy, T20 finals, won one T20)
3) South Africa (sorry for losing international cricket for big part and for their "choke" in crucial matches! Still their dominance-power, adopting to different conditions & skill-levels is in par with Australia & old West Indies!)
4) West Indies (for the huge impact of those glorious days! And still hints here & there for the way they can dominate the game! The recent T20 world cup was the evidence! They can actually bounce back any time if they come out of the sleep, but its unlikely because their interest has shifted out of cricket to other games!)
5) India (for the way they are trending in future & largely supported by the way they won the world cup so early even when the team was considered as minnows. But its actually the future & professionalism which can carry them forward and even go upper in this table provided other teams don't match up appropriately!)
6) Pakistan (for the way they are declining rapidly, but can surpass India if they can recover at least in next 2-3 years. But this actually requires a lot of professionalism & solid administration which is the key for today's success! Though everyone has hopes about their "talent production". Cricket has become lot more professional now!)
7) Srilanka
8) New Zealand (very rarely a threat outside their den!)

You are talking historically and you rank India higher than Pakistan? And then say it's because of what the future looks like lol

Do you know what history and future mean?

 

[RamLakhan]

You are talking historically and you rank India higher than Pakistan? And then say it's because of what the future looks like lol

Do you know what history and future mean?

Even with poor history, India has fared better than Pakistan (two world cups), More number of finalists (world cups, champions trophy), semi-finalists (including T20s). Almost similar records for both teams against other teams in bilaterals! Yes present (recent past) and future are important. This is the time we have comfortably overtaken Pakistan (played well in Australia particularly! And as good or even better than Pakistan in England & South Africa across all formats). And absolute giants at home for good crunch of history (including past!) The only thing that is holding in favor of you is the head-to-head record between us which would have comfortably got evened out by this team if we continued to play between each other.

If we were to live in past, then we would have remained dreaming & being pessimistic/disdained thinking that we are minnows, we can't beat Australia, can't beat England, can't beat West Indies, even Sri Lanka has overtook us (in 96). Fortunately we have moved ahead of those times. Pakistani legends are certainly as good as (even if you think are better) West Indies legends who cannot do anything about their current team for various reasons! Some of your ex-cricketers & commentators feel the same (the gap between the two teams now! At least we the minnow teams in the past used to give some competition at important matches!)

 

[dildildalwalla]

Even with poor history, India has fared better than Pakistan (two world cups), More number of finalists (world cups, champions trophy), semi-finalists (including T20s). Almost similar records for both teams against other teams in bilaterals! Yes present (recent past) and future are important. This is the time we have comfortably overtaken Pakistan (played well in Australia particularly! And as good or even better than Pakistan in England & South Africa across all formats). And absolute giants at home for good crunch of history (including past!) The only thing that is holding in favor of you is the head-to-head record between us which would have comfortably got evened out by this team if we continued to play between each other.

If we were to live in past, then we would have remained dreaming & being pessimistic/disdained thinking that we are minnows, we can't beat Australia, can't beat England, can't beat West Indies, even Sri Lanka has overtook us (in 96). Fortunately we have moved ahead of those times. Pakistani legends are certainly as good as (even if you think are better) West Indies legends who cannot do anything about their current team for various reasons! Some of your ex-cricketers & commentators feel the same (the gap between the two teams now! At least we the minnow teams in the past used to give some competition at important matches!)

Pakistan has a higher win loss ration in test cricket. Probably the same geos for ODIs, has a better t20 history and is better h2h in both major formats (Tests and ODIs) so none of what you say rooted in facts.

 

[joly]

Indian fielding will save 40+ extra runs the deciding factor

 

[RamLakhan]

The fact is Indians can pick their best XI to outsmart Pakistan (both in ODIs/T20s & Tests) from the wide range of "All time"!

For ODIs, they will smartly pick the more agile & rounded players (mostly from the modern era) who will be good in fielding & running between wickets besides their primary skills! Pakistan will rely on "names"/"veterans". While forming such team they will fall short on "smartness" angle! They have to rely on players like Inzamam who are not so good in fielding & running between wickets which will prove costly! While we have the luxury of replacing such players (e.g., Ganguly who was actually not so bad compared to Inzi) with someone else almost equivalent! Now one may argue that Inzi at his prime (probably 92 world cup?) was not that bad on the field! But then Kumble was absolutely deadly at some earlier point in his career! Shall we then say Indian bowling is in par with Pakistan or even better? No! We have to consider some timeline as well, some consistency as well some definite "common" sample while predicting these players to perform in this arbitrary/fantasy ATG best XI! If only a particular point of a player is taken, then even someone like Sunil Joshi will prove to be beast (who tormented a strong South African team). Let's not go up to Stuart Binny! Hence this is very arbitrary concept...

I think the reason for India's poor record in the past and/or poor head-to-head with Pakistan is because India had a too shambolic bunch of players (barring 2 or 3 top players) while Pakistan had a good bunch of ATG players (complemented with decent players) for a "definite" period of time in the history! This led to this dominance.


But when we have the luxury to pick the entire timeline to play against each other (this is the purpose of this thread I guess!) then we can definitely outsmart Pakistan (not sure about other teams though! Definitely not against Australia. Australia will come up with grand mother of mother of smartness!) Kohli, Dhoni, Yuvaraj, etc, are pretty good against handling Wasim/Waqar kind of bowlers (I am not even considering Ajay Jadeja, because I know we can't conclude with just one innings with him in top form and Waqar was not at his best!)

In test matches as I said, if we have these batsmen - Sunil Gavaskar, Rahul Dravid & Pujara in the same playing XI, I am sure they will assure 60 to 70% chances of drawing a Test Match even on toughest of toughest pitches (such pitches will actually give a chance for our bowlers to work out against the relatively weaker batsmen!) And we have players also like Sehwag & Laxman who can force win from precarious stages & conditions (of course there is Sachin as well!) Pakistan do not have such comforts.

Pakistan will need specific conditions, timelines and luck (like no camera) to beat India (if you consider ATG - I think this is supposed to mean All Time, which means the greatness has to exist & survive in all conditions, in all times.) While India can come up with a team (from the "All Time" wide array) in such a way that it can compete in all conditions, timelines without depending on any luck!

Never will a lineup comprising of Sehwag, Tendulkar, Kohli, Dhoni will be fazed by Pakistani ATG bowlers in LOIs and I said we have different beasts in Test Matches.

Pakistan actually will mess up selecting their ATG XI quarreling for the places, seniority issues, etc instead of concentrating on choosing the best playing XI & the context.

It is 100% correct that Pakistan produced better (more number of) ATG bowlers than India and also pretty good number of ATG batsmen for a considerable period of time. The main point is Pakistan got all those set of ATGs playing together in the same time while India had a pretty average team during that period. And that was like some 10-12 years in the growing history of cricket which impacted the cricket-lovers like anything! But we pretty much got all those missing links filled up in the past 10-15 years! And we are now in the constant process of producing quality players, grooming them and monitoring them!

 

[RamLakhan]

The summary is Pakistan might have produced ATG players (bowlers specially). But Indian Batsmen selected from the same criteria ("all time") are capable of edging them out/negating them! Hence India will be definitely placed ahead of Pakistan on the ATG team/XI scale!

But yes there will be lots of Pakistanis who may feature in ATG individual lists compared to India (But mind you they have to compete with players from other countries as well!) But this thread is not about individual players! This is about playing XI, who will come up with better playing XI to outsmart the other, to combat head to head, to come up with a better team performance! (including mental aspects of handling pressure and physical aspects of athleticism)

I will also go on to say that more number of Pakistani players may feature in ATG World XI as well (unbiased! But biased XI can have more Indians as well!) But it is the total XI as a single team which we are concentrating here!

 

[Ted123]

Bump!

9 years past, Pakistan XI remains same. Think there will be some changes in India XI.

 

[silentkiller187]

Bump!

9 years past, Pakistan XI remains same. Think there will be some changes in India XI.

You mean to tell me Fawad Alam still hasnt made the list?

 

[Ab Fan]

Indian XI will have a lot of major changes.

Tendulkar
Ganguly
Kohli
Azharrudin
Yuvraj
Dhoni(c/wkt)
Kapil
Kumble
Harbhajan
Zaheer
Bumrah

I would prefer avoiding Rohit Sharma against Wasim Akram at the top order.

12th man- Mohammad Shami

India will win the ODI match as they have got the luxury of greatest ODI captain, greatest finisher and greatest chaser of all-time in that team.

 

[Srtfan]

Sachin
Rohit
Kohli
Ganguly
Yuvi
Dhoni
Kapil
Kumble
Ashwin
Bumrah
Zaheer/srinath