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Those who criticise the Army are usually indian backed agents SAFMA mouth piece.
We without the uniforms will standby shoulder to shoulder with the Army and will fight on the borders.
LONG LIVE ARMED FORCES OF PAKISTAN
feel sorry for pakistan if army is the jigar of the country . Pakistan looks certain to be going on way to be grouped with failed military states like myanmar and north korea .
No country with army as the boss can ever progress .
worth of deep respect)...............
The army can't proctect its own people, while they want to rule in Pak..... They can't even provide safety even to there retired ones, who are living right next to an oil refinary(askari 14)
This. The rank and file soldier fighting to protect the nation deserves the utmost respect. The top brass however, the likes of Shuja Pasha and Kiyani, deserve to be tried for all the atrocities they've committed against the nation, every last one of them and punished accordingly. It was their constant desire to be the top dog in the country that has led to the collapse of the nation's political and social structure.I am sure the common soldier fighting on the border or the common soldier fighting for our country wants to rule Pakistan.
/sarcasm
Some people...
Our army, not the corrupt generals, but our army deserves every bit of respect they get
This. The rank and file soldier fighting to protect the nation deserves the utmost respect. The top brass however, the likes of Shuja Pasha and Kiyani, deserve to be tried for all the atrocities they've committed against the nation, every last one of them and punished accordingly. It was their constant desire to be the top dog in the country that has led to the collapse of the nation's political and social structure.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y89S6UqMJm8
Mumbai Attacks 26/11 !!! General Ashfaq Parvez Kiyani : ''An Untold Story'' !!!
http://www.pakistankakhudahafiz.com/2012/03/18/of-isi-why-ahmad-shuja-pasha-will-never-walk-alone/
http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=390591150970633
http://saras.org.pk/viewarticle.php?topicid=2832
Read this one haters if you can't be bothered to read the rest.
http://www.paksoldiers.com/2012/03/19/man-behind-cia-defeat-in-pakistan/
http://www.aaj.tv/2012/02/shuja-pasha’s-retirement-may-change-cia-isi-relationships-munter/
These are all evidences of the people you are calling traitors bring me one document which says zardari did something good for the country.
no country with a leader like zardari can ever succeed you must remember the memo gate then you must also remember who were the names zardari took that says you can destroy pakistan by taking away the nukes it was pakisatn army and isi.
Pak Fauj is the reason why pakistan is still alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y89S6UqMJm8
Mumbai Attacks 26/11 !!! General Ashfaq Parvez Kiyani : ''An Untold Story'' !!!
http://www.pakistankakhudahafiz.com/2012/03/18/of-isi-why-ahmad-shuja-pasha-will-never-walk-alone/
http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=390591150970633
http://saras.org.pk/viewarticle.php?topicid=2832
Read this one haters if you can't be bothered to read the rest.
http://www.paksoldiers.com/2012/03/19/man-behind-cia-defeat-in-pakistan/
http://www.aaj.tv/2012/02/shuja-pasha’s-retirement-may-change-cia-isi-relationships-munter/
These are all evidences of the people you are calling traitors bring me one document which says zardari did something good for the country.
Pak Fauj is the reason why pakistan is still alive.
Yeah , Pakistan was a super power before President Zardari . They all lie when they say more money is being spent on the Army than the government or the civilians itself . They all lie when they say military dictators have ruled Pakistan longer than the civilian governments . They all lie about Zia ul Haq being a curse for Pakistan .
You mean, the West Pakistan ( a East Pakistan is already dead and now peacefully living as Bangladesh).
Talk about ignorance and not able to know the history.
Any fool should know if it wasn't for the army Pakistan would be long gone.
No army no matter how strong will be able to contain a part of their country if its separated from the main land and an enemie sits in the middle. It was a flawed plan to have east pakistan.
Any fool should know if it wasn't for the army Pakistan would be long gone.
Do you expect us to respect the military which lost half the country, lost all wars against you know who and never let democratic institutions to take hold in Pakistan? Military is part of problem. They take away huge part of budget and leave little funds for development, education and health.
WOW lost all wars against who with a army of 5 times bigger than us no infact 6 or 7 times bigger than us because just recently our population has increased while india's has not grown so fast recently. You have to have a heart to attack someone bigger than you in the history you will not find any country attacking anyone bigger than them while pakistan has.[/QUOTE]
Germans, French attacked the Russians- both Napolean & Hitler failed...
Japs being a small country had attacked the Yanks as well...
Israel fought against it's much bigger Arab neighbors
Chinese had a skirmish with Russians in the 60's....
these are top off my head....
No army no matter how strong will be able to contain a part of their country if its separated from the main land and an enemie sits in the middle. It was a flawed plan to have east pakistan.
Any fool should know if it wasn't for the army Pakistan would be long gone.
WOW lost all wars against who with a army of 5 times bigger than us no infact 6 or 7 times bigger than us because just recently our population has increased while india's has not grown so fast recently. You have to have a heart to attack someone bigger than you in the history you will not find any country attacking anyone bigger than them while pakistan has.[/QUOTE]
Israel fought against it's much bigger Arab neighbors
Israel was getting French Mirages and British Jaguars so they had a huge technological advantage.
^ Dude I would have mentioned Ayesha Siddiqui but they'll just cry conspiracy so let them start with Shuja Nawaz first!
WOW lost all wars against who with a army of 5 times bigger than us no infact 6 or 7 times bigger than us because just recently our population has increased while india's has not grown so fast recently. You have to have a heart to attack someone bigger than you in the history you will not find any country attacking anyone bigger than them while pakistan has.[/QUOTE]
Israel fought against it's much bigger Arab neighbors
Israel was getting French Mirages and British Jaguars so they had a huge technological advantage.
Still the numbers were stacked against them...
Matie had quoted no other country had the heart to take on a bigger sized country in the history......just pointing out that has happened before---- hardly anything unique.....
Majority of middle-class Pakistani's do not like to read.
What good has Pak army ever done to the country ??
Did they ever win a war ??
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777
And elite class is too busy in milking the money from every corner.
Poor class do not know how to read.
In general, majority of the Pakistanis do not like to read books ( other than syllabus books like ratoo toota).
What good has Pak army ever done to the country ??
Did they ever win a war ??
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777
+1
The people who criticize the Army are fools. Without the Army, Pakistan would be toast.
Pak Fauj is the reason why pakistan is still alive.
Majority of middle-class Pakistani's do not like to read.
.. Bro, you know nothing about Pak politics...
Wonder where does most of the national tresure go to????? Read the title...
WOW lost all wars against who with a army of 5 times bigger than us no infact 6 or 7 times bigger than us because just recently our population has increased while india's has not grown so fast recently. You have to have a heart to attack someone bigger than you in the history you will not find any country attacking anyone bigger than them while pakistan has.
recently our population has increased while india's has not grown so fast recently.
You have to have a heart to attack someone bigger than you in the history you will not find any country attacking anyone bigger than them while pakistan has.
I used to think like this too when I was 9 years old. Then I got exposed to our unfortunate military-bureaucratic complex from 1947-1958 and authors such as Shuja Nawaz, Ayesha Jalal, Owen Bennett Jones and Stephen Cohen kind of showed me the light. I think as I read the books I felt like my whole childhood indoctrination in the public education sense was one big lie.
If you think the East Pakistan debacle started with solely geographical disparity and/or Indian influence, then my friend you need to get out of your Pak Studies books for O levels/Matric and expand your horizon a bit. Read some of the books on Pakistan History rather than sermons from Zaid Hamid or even Hassan Nisar for that matter.
Tell you what, since you are so interested in history( or maybe you might not be), why dont you read a book on the army's background by a historian who is none other than General Asif Nawaz's brother. Surely he would not have a pre-conceived agenda to defame the army? Why dont you read his book and come back and tell me about whether ARMY is the reason that Pakistan is still alive. And please, spare me the "pakfauj.com...ilovepakistaniarmy.com...zaidhamidbrasstracks.com" links. There are things called SOURCED books, and Shuja Nawaz's CROSS SWORDS book on what army mentality is really like will if nothing else, make you think that.. HEY! THERE ISN'T JUST ONE VIEW OF THE PAKISTANI ARMY AFTERALL!"
Clarification: Like Tanzeel, when I mean army, I mean those 10 4 star generals who have been controlling our nation over the past 64 years. Not those poor souls that died in Siachin or were forced to participate in an objective-less/ winless Operation Gibraltor or Kargil.
Retarded statement, just because they don't read English it means they don't read.
So according to you no one in Europe minus England reads. Very intelligent statement.
You probably actually meant to say they don't read the propaganda books the Americans want to feed us with.
.. Bro, you know nothing about Pak politics...
Wonder where does most of the national tresure go to????? Read the title...
Do not put words into someone's mouth. Learn the context of the what is being first before coming up with cock-a-bull theories of your own.
And American's want to feed us with Ayesha Jalal's and Ayesha Siddiqa's who are immensely respected, in Pakistan as well.
Neutrality demands you read both sides and then reach a conclusion based on what you have read.
No one is putting words in your mouth, you gave a retarded statement about middle class Pakistanis not reading, (only because they don't read English), which is totally ignorance coming from a westerner fed by CNN and fox.
What i don't get is, why are Pakistani hyper-nationalist so quick to label anyone a traitor or an Amreeki/Hindu agent when s/he challenges statist narrative, which has mainly been shaped by one powerful institution over the course of our history?
There is nothing wrong in questioning the head-honchos of that dominant institution, and doing so does not make anyone a fool, or less of a Pakistani.
If they were as GREAT as some people make them out to be, we wouldn't be in this fine mess. It is not reason to question that particular institution.
But it is treason to break the country's constitution, which they seem to relish, because they can get away with it.
Comprehension fail, context fail.
Westerner. Yes, Sargodha is in Western Punjab.
Firstly its quite obvious that the west is after Pakistan's nuclear assets and wants an attack on the country, however Pakistan is not Iraq or Afganistan only because of one force which is stopping them and that is not the ayesha jalals, siqqiquis, parachas or the hoodbhoys, these are the fools that will be the first to run away from the country once war comes and its the pak fauj that will lay down their lives to defend this country, yet you want to believe the fools like ayesha jalal and co over this army.
Secondly, America has agents in all countries, refer to 'confessions of an economic hitman' by john perkins, so when their focus is on taking out paks nuclear assets and the country, you think they will not have any here? You think they will not finance propaganda against the army?
As for questioning them and criticizing them, no one here is calling them angels. They must have made mistakes as well cause their humans but throwing false allegations and attacking them is wrong.
You obviously dont live in Sargodha so again stop lying. Probably been there once in your life and though your Pakistani )
And i was expecting that response from you as a western wanna could not say anything better.
Neither is anyone here asking for the Pak fauj to be dismembered. Cutting down their influence on the the society is imperative, if you want to see all institutions in Pakistan return to normalcy.
WOW lost all wars against who with a army of 5 times bigger than us no infact 6 or 7 times bigger than us because just recently our population has increased while india's has not grown so fast recently. You have to have a heart to attack someone bigger than you in the history you will not find any country attacking anyone bigger than them while pakistan has.[/QUOTE]
Germans, French attacked the Russians- both Napolean & Hitler failed...
Japs being a small country had attacked the Yanks as well...
Israel fought against it's much bigger Arab neighbors
Chinese had a skirmish with Russians in the 60's....
these are top off my head....
Who did israel attack they were attacked by the arabs if you have done research.
Germany has a poulation of 81 million France has 62 million people Russia has a poluaton of 142 million know you tell me how they attacked a country bigger than them when they got same number of population and ruissai got better technology then both of the countrys.
Firstly its quite obvious that the west is after Pakistan's nuclear assets and wants an attack on the country, however Pakistan is not Iraq or Afganistan only because of one force which is stopping them and that is not the ayesha jalals, siqqiquis, parachas or the hoodbhoys, these are the fools that will be the first to run away from the country once war comes and its the pak fauj that will lay down their lives to defend this country, yet you want to believe the fools like ayesha jalal and co over this army.
Secondly, America has agents in all countries, refer to 'confessions of an economic hitman' by john perkins, so when their focus is on taking out paks nuclear assets and the country, you think they will not have any here? You think they will not finance propaganda against the army?
As for questioning them and criticizing them, no one here is calling them angels. They must have made mistakes as well cause their humans but throwing false allegations and attacking them is wrong.
PetroDollars: you VOTE for who you would prefer to see in power. It's called a parliament. We have institutions where we legislate and pass laws. You dont just abuse the constitution and make up laws according to your wishes(army generals).
I will praise the soldiers of army for their heroism in serving our nation selflessly, but will not extend it to 3 of the 13 Chief of Army Staff who abused the Constitution and stopped populous participation. I am a big fan of Jehangir Karamat for being a disciplined general. This was simply not envisioned by our founder. In promoting the role of Army in political affairs and their involvement in Legislative, Executive and judicial institutions, you are contradicting our Quaid's word, who clearly stated:
"Never forget that you[military] are the servants of the state. You do not make policy. It is we, the people’s representatives, who decide how the country is to be run. Your job is only to obey the decisions of your civilian masters."
You forget General kayani name when you mentioned disciplined general he could have staged a coup but never.
If pakistan exist today it is of the pak army and not your so called goverment. Saudi arabia has got oil they have got a civilian goverment but still majority live in poverty. Gaddafi was a military dictator but he made libya the best place in the world and had a good economy. It has nothing to do with civilian or military it has got to do with who wants to make their country a good place but pakistan has no choice thats why we waging a proxy war on america why i will not answer you i want you and your fellow people who hate pakistan army to answer me here is my question.
People claim pak army gets orders from washington but why does then pakistan train taliban, haqqani up for then to attack america.
PetroDollars: you VOTE for who you would prefer to see in power. It's called a parliament. We have institutions where we legislate and pass laws. You dont just abuse the constitution and make up laws according to your wishes(army generals).
I will praise the soldiers of army for their heroism in serving our nation selflessly, but will not extend it to 3 of the 13 Chief of Army Staff who abused the Constitution and stopped populous participation. I am a big fan of Jehangir Karamat for being a disciplined general. This was simply not envisioned by our founder. In promoting the role of Army in political affairs and their involvement in Legislative, Executive and judicial institutions, you are contradicting our Quaid's word, who clearly stated:
"Never forget that you[military] are the servants of the state. You do not make policy. It is we, the people’s representatives, who decide how the country is to be run. Your job is only to obey the decisions of your civilian masters."
[
Germany has a poulation of 81 million France has 62 million people Russia has a poluaton of 142 million know you tell me how they attacked a country bigger than them when they got same number of population and ruissai got better technology then both of the countrys.
ISI actually has a special room in their HQ, where they hire people to promote them on the internet.
Are you one of them or you do it voluntarily ?
we get paid quite handsomely actually, but if you want real money from them you need to move higher up the ranks, where people like Ron Paul and George Galloway are. They are both actually ISI agents too.
) do you even know how the system is run in Pakistan, are you trying to tell me, the people voted in NS, Bibi, Bhutto or Zadari?
and when was the last time a civilian PM or Presidant listened to the parliment? are you telling me that the civilians have never abused the law or constitution?
As for you allegations on the army chiefs, firstly you cant blame Mush because he never imposed martial law, he was handed the power to him. Sometimes when civilians hijack the country, take over institutions army has to step in. Ns in 99 already had all institutions in his pockets apart from the army and dismissing Mush and putting his friend Ziahudin Butt there was a step that would have made NS the king of the country and he would have probably ruled it forever like a king.
and can you back the quote up with a source.
Actually the guy who was more responsible for the development of nukes than anyone else is Zia(during the 80s, it was not uncommon for PIA planes operating commercial flights to be carrying equipment to be used in the nuclear program, almost always illegally) probably the only decent thing that sad excuse for a human being ever did. Unfortunately, the legacy that he left behind him is so tainted that no amount of good can undo the harm that he has done this nation. To this day people are killed by the hundreds every other day because of the ideologies that he cultivated during his time as dictator and the laws he introduced to protect the practitioners of said ideology.Pakistan Army is overrated.
Can't protect its own sovereignty- i.e American troops on their soil for Bin Laden, Drone attacks.
The army is not advanced. The only thing you pride yourselves on is a nuclear bomb. LOL . the Nuclear bomb is more of a deterrent rather than a tool which can be used to attack - it will never be done.
Thank Nawaz for nuclear, not the Army
Fix up
ISI actually has a special room in their HQ, where they hire people to promote them on the internet.
Amar786 said:Germany has a poulation of 81 million France has 62 million people Russia has a poluaton of 142 million know you tell me how they attacked a country bigger than them when they got same number of population and ruissai got better technology then both of the countrys.
During WW-II ? You are telling me Russia had better tech than Germany ?
And dude !...Napolean and Hitler didn't attack Russia together..)