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Pakistan bowled out for 297 at Stumps on Day 1 of 2nd Test against New Zealand

I asked this on the pre-game thread when a lot of XIs being posted had Shan or at least a comment along the lines of having Shan instead of Abid (in case it came down to one of the two).

Personally would take Abid’s flashy 20s instead of Shan’s dogged ducks. At least Abid tries to put the bad ball away.
 
shaaik said:
A) He got complacent after that 150.
B) He Technique for an opener is all over the place.
C) He looks so timid on the crease and seldom looks to score in International games, in domestic he’s a free flowing player and he shd try to play the same way in internationals as well. He’s failing anyway, might as well help him.
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Fair points. He looks to be stuck on the crease with no real intent.
 
Titan24 said:
He has 76 matches under his belt and 300 wickets. He was nowhere as good in his initial few years. He averaged around 40+ with ball in his first 15 test matches.

Fans need to realize it takes time to develop players. Yes right identification of the players to invest in is important.
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True. However, our quick bowlers in the last decade get off to good starts and then regress over time. Other team's bowlers improve over time.
 
Stay patient and they will keep feeding us with boundary balls
 
so Azhar should be opening

our lesson from today he is doing a decent job so far
 
Both batsmen need to just pick off bad balls and stay solid.
 
Guys who would you drop if you had to drop one of Shan, Abid and Azhar?

Shan- can’t play attacking shots
Abid- can’t play bounce
Azhar- diminishing reflexes.
 
Shoaibbtt said:
Imran Butt? Maybe or Sharjeel Khan has been good.
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Sharjeel Khan is feast or famine. And his only way to deal with anything is attack. Abid looks patient.

Haven’t seen anything of this Imran Butt Guy tbh
 
Given the weather conditions, I think that the ball will swing for at least the first 30 overs.

We need to look for every opportunity to score runs without conceding wickets.
 
Rayyman said:
Guys who would you drop if you had to drop one of Shan, Abid and Azhar?

Shan- can’t play attacking shots
Abid- can’t play bounce
Azhar- diminishing reflexes.
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Shan. He’s so bad...
 
Abid Ali is no nonesense when it comes to not wanting to take singles
 
Markhor said:
Abbas was never quick but has really slowed and lost a yard of pace though since his shoulder injury in 2018/19.
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I agree with this but I meant to say that the difference should not be night and day. The other element which I think is not mentioned as often is that Abbas relies on movement of the pitch (rather than as much in the air) and also the angle of deviation is more subtle. The second of these things often means that the margin to hit someone on the pads goes down.
 
It’s cricket. Anything can happen

But Pakistan doing OK so far.
 
Markhor said:
Abbas was never quick but has really slowed and lost a yard of pace though since his shoulder injury in 2018/19.
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How extreme was thay shoulder injury? Why hasn't he brought his pace back up after almost a year?
 
hk031992 said:
True. However, our quick bowlers in the last decade get off to good starts and then regress over time. Other team's bowlers improve over time.
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Thats a fair argument. Thing is our bowlers have either have not been fit enough or just havent been good enough as a whole in terms of development and growth. Bans on Asif and Amir earlier in the decade really created a big gap and knee struggles of Gul and Junaid didnt help much either. Bowlers need to be fit enough to remain playing the game and only then there is chance of consistent development and them starting to show their skills at full flow around mid-late 20s.
 
Rayyman said:
But he just won opener of the year.

Are you just saying that because he got out?

What if a wicket falls in the next over?
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If you exclude his 150 from the 280 runs which he scored last year... he would have mediocre stats.

He’s just not good enough in my opinion.
 
Rayyman said:
But he just won opener of the year.

Are you just saying that because he got out?

What if a wicket falls in the next over?
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If a wicket falls in the next over, then it will be because Shan was unable to create a good batting platform for the middle order to acclimatise to.
 
Another thing you can do on this pitch is leave on length, which our batsmen seem to be doing so far.
 
Don't think Abid's good enough, ODI is his level, but needs to go big here.
 
Dark_Horse said:
Age and shoulder injury weakens a lot
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At the pace he is opperating, I wouldn't be surprised if someone starts playing the sweepshot on him. It's not me being rude, it's actually possible because 125kph isn't gonna threaten many world class batsmen.
 
Yk313 said:
Haven’t seen anything to suggest PAK should have played one either, especially given Haris and Fawad are playing. Maybe I am missing something?
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Spinners are always handful in test cricket...
 
Mueez said:
If you exclude his 150 from the 280 runs which he scored last year... he would have mediocre stats.

He’s just not good enough in my opinion.
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Yea but what makes him better than Abid or Azhar? Exclude Azhar’s 150 or Abid’s 170...
 
Yk313 said:
Haven’t seen anything to suggest PAK should have played one either, especially given Haris and Fawad are playing. Maybe I am missing something?
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Spinners will come into play. We are bowling this time during the 4th innings...
 
Always an encouraging sign when Azhar nails that on drive.

Some good leaves here too.
 
Bit better intent than first test. Need to carry it on throughout the batting lineup without getting bogged down after the loss of wickets. Intent doesnt mean throwing the bat outside off rather a mindset of scoring runs by good strike rotation and cashing in on deliveries which can be put away without much risk.
 
Titan24 said:
Thats a fair argument. Thing is our bowlers have either have not been fit enough or just havent been good enough as a whole in terms of development and growth. Bans on Asif and Amir earlier in the decade really created a big gap and knee struggles of Gul and Junaid didnt help much either. Bowlers need to be fit enough to remain playing the game and only then there is chance of consistent development and them starting to show their skills at full flow around mid-late 20s.
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Bans on Asif and Amir sure. But Junaid? Feel like he was over-bowled from Sri Lanka to UAE to other places etc. I do not have any statistics at hand so please correct me if I am wrong of course.

Gul served well I would say. Was annoying that he almost became a middle-overs specialist but he too bowled quite especially once these two got banned.
 
Titan24 said:
Bit better intent than first test. Need to carry it on throughout the batting lineup without getting bogged down after the loss of wickets. Intent doesnt mean throwing the bat outside off rather a mindset of scoring runs by good strike rotation and cashing in on deliveries which can be put away without much risk.
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Bro the intent is basically forced shots by NZ bowlers. But Pakistan are leaving the ball really well so far
 
Yk313 said:
Haven’t seen anything to suggest PAK should have played one either, especially given Haris and Fawad are playing. Maybe I am missing something?
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You never know what a spinner can bring, being a different challenge compared to pace bowlers.

Jamieson on now.
 
From Death Valley, weighing in at 350lbs


jaaaaaamiesonnnn
 
Rayyman said:
Yea but what makes him better than Abid or Azhar? Exclude Azhar’s 150 or Abid’s 170...
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Azhar has had a pretty decent career.

Overall been a good servant for Pakistan Test Cricket.

Abid is a flashy player, also has a better chance to score heavy on Asian, flat tracks.

At least that’s what I think...
 
imshally81 said:
Spinners are always handful in test cricket...
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We can agree to disagree I guess. A solid spinner sure, but we have just made the statement that our premier spinner (Yasir) is not good enough. And then we have followed that up by saying that we will play a spinner just because we feel a spinner needs to be played. Nothing in the conditions suggests so (at least right now - nothing would give me greater pleasure than seeing Zafar do well. Hopefully we find a good prospect here today). But generally, it is horses for courses. And unless we have a trump card, no point playing a spinner just for the sake of playing one.
 
Straight away asking questions the way CIA would interrogate a terror suspect
 
Let's hope that Abid can negotiate Jamieson well today. He will struggle due to the height difference.

Abid needs to play within his body. What a ball from Jamieson.
 
Really hope they can look to get the better of Jamieson early on. Dont want him bossing oit batsmen like the previous match
 
Yk313 said:
Bans on Asif and Amir sure. But Junaid? Feel like he was over-bowled from Sri Lanka to UAE to other places etc. I do not have any statistics at hand so please correct me if I am wrong of course.

Gul served well I would say. Was annoying that he almost became a middle-overs specialist but he too bowled quite especially once these two got banned.
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Yes Junaid was over bowled but, in the modern day cricket communication with the management without any insecurities in mind is really important and to be honest fitness of some players including him weren’t that great. Yes management needs to better handle but, players need to communicate like professionals as well rather than being completely dependent upon management for handling everything and not telling them exactly how their body feels and planning to with management before every season how many overs is he looking to ball etc. Few things which Pak cricket as a whole needs to improve.
 
Dark_Horse said:
Why am I getting CDG debut vibes Pak played well in first hour in that test
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I don’t think he was a first change bowler that game, I think he opened bowling that day .. he was swinging it square ..
 
Pace are up from Boult and Jamieson compare to last match. Pitch is certainly lively too, good for bowlers and batsmen atm.
 
Rana said:
Bro the intent is basically forced shots by NZ bowlers. But Pakistan are leaving the ball really well so far
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True but, overall composure against balls within the body and leaves as you said.
 
Last edited:
Yk313 said:
We can agree to disagree I guess. A solid spinner sure, but we have just made the statement that our premier spinner (Yasir) is not good enough. And then we have followed that up by saying that we will play a spinner just because we feel a spinner needs to be played. Nothing in the conditions suggests so (at least right now - nothing would give me greater pleasure than seeing Zafar do well. Hopefully we find a good prospect here today). But generally, it is horses for courses. And unless we have a trump card, no point playing a spinner just for the sake of playing one.
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A spinner overseas in these conditions can still be threatening of they bowl in good areas. There is also bounce on these wickets, and the slider should be effective as well. We have yet to play a finger spinner here, so we don't know how Gohar will bowl. Hopefully he can take a few, but the captaincy must also let the spinner attack with some catchers nearby.
 
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