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Pakistan reach 109/3 at the end of Day 2 of the first Test against the West Indies, with a lead of 202 runs

Irrespective of how doctored the pitches are.

Both wi and eng could not bowl spin like sajid and noman are able to.

Theirs still a clear gap on quality of spinners.

If you guys are gonna use the bat first excuse, remember saud shakeel scored a century was England on the 4th day.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
Oh yeh it's better than that and a good strategy for the short term.
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It should be long term solution. Look how india has been dominant in home for so long due to this strategy of producing these rank turners.

Pakistan should always produce these kinds of wickets.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
I'm not a fan of spinners bowling all of the overs.

I like balanced test matches.

It doesn't help that WIndies are crap too.
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I’d rather see Pakistan use pitches to its advantage and win Tests than focus on personal preferences about what I’d like to see.

If we’re going to prepare pitches that suit visiting teams, it’s only fair that Australia and South Africa also create balanced pitches that cater to Pakistan’s strengths too
 
followed said:
It should be long term solution. Look how india has been dominant in home for so long due to this strategy of producing these rank turners.

Pakistan should always produce these kinds of wickets.
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Bumrah Shami and Ishant did ok in India too.

Obviously home team should have an advantage but I feel this strategy is overkill.

We aren't following India's lead it seems more like the Bangladesh strategy for how they approach home tests.
 
This is not good for cricket. WI don't know how to play spin. There is no competition , one sided affair.
 
This is how it should be. This is what the home advantage looks like.

Ramiz raja was one of the the worst thing happened to Pakistan cricket. He ruined Pakistan cricket with those atrocious pitches.
 
followed said:
It should be long term solution. Look how india has been dominant in home for so long due to this strategy of producing these rank turners.

Pakistan should always produce these kinds of wickets.
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No, we should be nicer to our guests. Who cares about vicious bouncy or seaming pitches when we tour? We shouldn’t try to win
 
DeadlyVenom said:
Bumrah Shami and Ishant did ok in India too.

Obviously home team should have an advantage but I feel this strategy is overkill.

We aren't following India's lead it seems more like the Bangladesh strategy for how they approach home tests.
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Agasint West Indies when they toured iNdia highest wicket taker was not spinner. It was Umesh Yadav. India occasionaly prepares turner. If anything Ashwin does well only on pitches that turns not overly. Guys like Sundar, Axar does well on such pitches. Jadeja does well on flatter wickets.
 
emranabbas said:
I’d rather see Pakistan use pitches to its advantage and win Tests than focus on personal preferences about what I’d like to see.

If we’re going to prepare pitches that suit visiting teams, it’s only fair that Australia and South Africa also create balanced pitches that cater to Pakistan’s strengths too
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That's fine but it will kill what is left of our cricket.

It's not about creating pitches to suit visiting teams it's about developing skills and FC infrastructure to improve our test cricket to make the team competitive in all conditions.

This is fine for a bit and necessary after such a Long streak.

But long term? Nah
 
Mainul said:
This is not good for cricket. WI don't know how to play spin. There is no competition , one sided affair.
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Our whole team can't play pace but Australia and South Africa have no sympathy for us
We have not won a test for past 20 years in Australia and South Africa
 
DeadlyVenom said:
That's fine but it will kill what is left of our cricket.

It's not about creating pitches to suit visiting teams it's about developing skills and FC infrastructure to improve our test cricket to make the team competitive in all conditions.

This is fine for a bit and necessary after such a Long streak.

But long term? Nah
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All the developing should be done in domestic and via A tours to sena countries
 
Even if Pak roll them over for 100 or so they shouldn't make them follow on.

Pak should bat and get to score some runs as Shan and Hurraira need runs so does Babar and the rest.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
That's fine but it will kill what is left of our cricket.

It's not about creating pitches to suit visiting teams it's about developing skills and FC infrastructure to improve our test cricket to make the team competitive in all conditions.

This is fine for a bit and necessary after such a Long streak.

But long term? Nah
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You didn’t answer my earlier question.

Pak vs SA test was all pace. Was that crap cricket.

Also, if what you are saying is true and Applying your logic, why don’t SENA teams prepare spinning mambas to prepare for tests in Asia?
 
The batsmen lose their ability to bat long by playing on such surfaces.
At the end of the day it's only the runs that gives them confidence.

Kohli started the trend of the these extreme pitches in India and it finished him as batsman. His average of 47 is like 57 in the older era.
 
It's definitely hard to bat out there but the West Indians have made serious technical mistakes too. Can't be playing spin this way.
 
Ahmed216 said:
The batsmen lose their ability to bat long by playing on such surfaces.
At the end of the day it's only the runs that gives them confidence.

Kohli started the trend of the these extreme pitches in India and it finished him as batsman. His average of 47 is like 57 in the older era.
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His average of 47 is like 57 in the older era.

What? No it isn't . He's rubbish in tests for 5 years and that's it.

Spin isn't even his issue. It's pace. He keeps getting dismissed anytime a pacer bowls in the offside. It's almost as if he's become the next Muhammad rizwan and forgetten how to play on the off.
 
kingusama92 said:
It's definitely hard to bat out there but the West Indians have made serious technical mistakes too. Can't be playing spin this way.
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The West Indies have simply been poor in their batting. The pitch isn’t as bad as people are making it out to be. Teams like India, South Africa, Australia, and even Bangladesh or Afghanistan would have managed to put some runs on the board.
 
I won't overly blame Windies here. BRathwthie miraculously has played 96 tests. God knows why. But everyone else has 10 tests or under experience. Their first class average is pathetic.
 
This is the problem of test cricket. Always a debate to how doctored you should make pitches. How much of a home advantage you should have, what is fair. There’s just no consensus. In past it was similar problems yet with the focus on test matches, teams would focus on that format and play practice matches to get used to conditions.

Then there’s the whole issue with Sena vs non sena countries. One can’t play spin on spinning pitches, the other can’t play pace on bouncy pitches.

Loi cricket generally doesn’t have that issue. Pitches are mostly fair to each side and usually the better side will win. In other sports home advantage is not as big.

If you doctor the pitches too much and one side wins too quickly, test doesn’t last to 5 days which results in lost revenue. Which also isn’t good.

I’m not sure how to fix it but it might be setting stricter standards for pitches. And awarding more points for away wins. Maybe the away side should always win the toss too.
 
kingusama92 said:
Yeah what works on a regular pitch can quickly fall apart on a turning wicket. England was a good example of this too during their last two Tests in Pakistan.
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I mean they struggle also against pace. Nahit Rana absolutely blitzed them apart. SO i am not sure why Pakistan ahd to rely on spin against this team. They can use pace to knock them off.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
I mean they struggle also against pace. Nahit Rana absolutely blitzed them apart. SO i am not sure why Pakistan ahd to rely on spin against this team. They can use pace to knock them off.
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I think it has more to do with the conditions.

The curators seem only to be able to make highways or these rank turners in Pakistan. This is the same ground that gave us those ruthless Sehwag and Brooks triple centuries.

With those two choices, you have to go with the turning wickets.
 
Ramiz Raja played a significant role in Pakistan losing tests at home as an example During Ramiz Raja's tenure, from September 13, 2021, to December 21, 2022, Babar averaged 70 in home conditions, despite Pakistan not winning a single Test at home. After ramiz left babar dropped to 30. Misbah era was good when we were using UAE to our advantage.
 
mominsaigol said:
His average of 47 is like 57 in the older era.

What? No it isn't . He's rubbish in tests for 5 years and that's it.

Spin isn't even his issue. It's pace. He keeps getting dismissed anytime a pacer bowls in the offside. It's almost as if he's become the next Muhammad rizwan and forgetten how to play on the off.
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At home spin has been his issue.
His poor form is a result of him not being able to feed on flat wickets at home.
When a batsman dosnt have runs behind him he tends to make a lot more mistakes.

Not just him but these extreme pitches have destroyed entire Indian batting culture.
It has come to a point where likes of KL Rahul who average 33 are seen an saviours.
 
Why is Abrar playing if he don't wont get a bowl? Might as well have played a second pacer then
 
Ahmed216 said:
At home spin has been his issue.
His poor form is a result of him not being able to feed on flat wickets at home.
When a batsman dosnt have runs behind him he tends to make a lot more mistakes.

Not just him but these extreme pitches have destroyed entire Indian batting culture.
It has come to a point where likes of KL Rahul who average 33 are seen an saviours.
Click to expand...

Kohli failed even on good pitches except the one century on a road wicket. Jaiswal made 1091 runs in 10 tests on these pitches with an average of 60.61, Pant 51 avge, Jurel 63.33, Sundar 67.00. Jadeja 35.52. Axar patel 40.00. It is kohli that averaged 29. Kohli failed in Bangladesh as well.
 
Carl HOoper and Brian Lara two of the finest players against spin. chanders was also good. But current crop is very poor. Partly because they don't have good bowlers in domestic.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Kohli failed even on good pitches except the one century on a road wicket. Jaiswal made 1091 runs in 10 tests on these pitches with an average of 60.61, Pant 51 avge, Jurel 63.33, Sundar 67.00. Jadeja 35.52. Axar patel 40.00. It is kohli that averaged 29. Kohli failed in Bangladesh as well.
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How many runs did all of these batsman score on pitches such as ones offered against NZ in last two tests.?
 
Ahmed216 said:
How many runs did all of these batsman score on pitches such as ones offered against NZ in last two tests.?
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That was desperate move by Rohit sharma lol India's best chance is playing on a wicekt that turns on day 3 or 4. Not on day 1. That makes the opposition equally dangerous. Every time they tried to use a pitch that turns early it backfired. India's strength is pace attack as well.
 
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