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Pakistan's pacers have been terrible lately, what has happened to them?

Pakistan T20I Captain Shaheen Shah Afridi during the pre match conference ahead of 1st T20I against New Zealand discussed about about lack of pace during tour of Australia. He stated:

"To be honest, we were ourselves looking at the speed o' meters and wondering, is this really us? Because we were unable to understand that despite putting in all the effort, the speeds were not going up. Seeing 130-132 KPH was disheartening and we thought this was pre-decided that we won't go above 130KPH."

"Sometimes your body gets fatigued, and you can’t bowl every ball at 140 plus in Test cricket, and this body is not a machine, so it takes some time. My effort is to make myself fit. Of course, if you lead the team, you have to lead from the front, and I will try to reduce the collapses and the shortcomings so that it is better for the team."
 
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After winning the 5th T20I against New Zealand, Shaheen Shah Afridi in the end of the series presser:

When asked about Pakistan Bowling:

"Yes, we have absolutely struggled. It’s not that these players have done all good. Some did well, some did not, but every player has to go through such a time. As a unit, if we see positive things, then it will be beneficial for us. In some matches, I did not play well, in some matches, Haris did not play well. But if you do not check the combination, you will not be able to find success."​
 
As an Indian fan, this is the one trait I like about Pakistan cricket. They don't intellectualize fast bowling to pick those who bowl fast and that too at a young-ish age.

In India, the entire cricketing establishment - from selectors to journos - are all about line, length, control, skill etc.
 
Today's pace bowling performance from Pakistan team was somewhat Nostalgic. Hope things remain the same way in T20 WC too.
 
AMSS said:
As an Indian fan, this is the one trait I like about Pakistan cricket. They don't intellectualize fast bowling to pick those who bowl fast and that too at a young-ish age.

In India, the entire cricketing establishment - from selectors to journos - are all about line, length, control, skill etc.
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Which is why they have better pace bowlers for the last few years.
 
Dominance of Pakistan pacers in T20 cricket

2pMjVKG.png
 
firstly the myth of pakistan producing great fast bowlers has been overblown, pak have had 3 world class pacers in all history, and maybe 3 or 4 second tier all time quicks.

secondly, the problem is exacerbated as the world professionalises paks semi-pro ways are being found out, from analysis to planning to injury management, none of the supporting functions, actually function, so players are not getting the support they need to compete against the best.

thirdly, most of our newer generation players are, and i hate to be rude, a bit thick, so point number two becomes an even bigger issue.
 
Going around 8 an over is not a bigger issue but the real issue is the stats in death overs. That is where our bowlers are struggling a bit.

They should be trying to solve that problem because you cannot be bowling 14-15 good overs and then ruin the whole game at the death.
 
Pakistan had no international commitments since June in the last two months. The PCB even cancelled the Nocs of Naseem Shah so that he could focus on the upcoming international fixtures for Pakistan.

To see Naseem Shah turn up for Pakistan in the first test match with a belly was disgraceful and purely on him. Not sure who the PCB trainers are but this is a reflection of a players own discipline and commitment to the game.
 
Bowling 120 KPH after 3-4 overs makes it much easier for batsmen to line you up.
 
We went from gangsters to instagram models.

IMG_3491.jpeg

I’ve saved this pic, and look at it just to remind myself of what we used to have.

Straight trousers, loafers with socks on, shirts with buttons opened, black shades and long hair.

Our bowlers don’t have the aura anymore, one good over with the new ball and we make them into superstars.
 
YousafTheBeast said:
We went from gangsters to instagram models.


I’ve saved this pic, and look at it just to remind myself of what we used to have.

Straight trousers, loafers with socks on, shirts with buttons opened, black shades and long hair.

Our bowlers don’t have the aura anymore, one good over with the new ball and we make them into superstars.
Click to expand...

The problem is, if you tell the current Pakistani bowlers about the glorious days when our fast bowlers rocked the attitude, charisma, and bad-boy wardrobe like they were gangsters, they'd nod along, taking your words to heart. But the end result? Instead of unleashing their inner predators, they might just start wearing oversized leather jackets and sunglasses off the field, while on the pitch they're still timid trundlers, Meanwhile, back then, Asif and Sohaib were like Rottweilers looking to chew the head off batsmen!
 
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Pakistan have only produced 2 Tier-A fast bowlers in history: Wasim and Waqar.

Nobody else since can even see to surpass 50 tests/200 wickets.
 
Given that they were unable to defend a total of 160 against uSA their T20 stocks are also falling. Seemingly Amir is getting pasting in CPL this season. Next goal will be T10 ?
 
Our domestic cricket has been destroyed there are no intl quality players

Most of the bowlers coming through are club level journeymen types honest triers but even these bowlers are limited skill wise and injury prone.

Hope was shaheen but he simply never kicked on and is in a decline phase.
 
Varun said:
Pakistan have only produced 2 Tier-A fast bowlers in history: Wasim and Waqar.

Nobody else since can even see to surpass 50 tests/200 wickets.
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We had some good bowlers wahab , shabbir , gul , rana naved , junaid , rao anjum , sohail tanvir , sohail khan , amir etc physique wise they were up there and had skills to bowl.

We are not even producing these types of bowlers anymore forget about top intl level bowlers like the 2 ws , asif and shoaib caliber bowlers

And the less said about the spin department the better
 
Pakistan lacks pace talent anymore due to fitness issues, inefficient bowling actions, lack of aggression and inadequate training.
 
FearlessRoar said:
Pakistan lacks pace talent anymore due to fitness issues, inefficient bowling actions, lack of aggression and inadequate training.
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They don't lack talent as per this champions cup performances but they have no answer when the batsmen starts playing innovative shots against them , make them play against traditional batter with 90s style batting and they will dominate him even if the batter is actually good.
 
We witnessed lots of 140k bowlers in this tournament , Naseem , Shaheen , Rauf , Sameen , Jahandad ,Dahani ,Hasnain ,Sirajuddin , M.Zeeshan , Akif Javed , Ahmed Daniyal , That's about 11 pacers who can clock 140k+ and quiet a few 140k+ haven't got a game in this tournament like Ubaid Shah , Ali Raza , Zeeshan Zamir ,Ihsanullah , Aimal Khan , M.Amir Khan , Owais Ali , That's about 18 bowlers who can clock up to 140k and beyond , it's an insane quantity and even Aus and Saf don't have such quantity of 140k+ pacers in their domestic teams.

It's just about other skills and temperament and fitness they lack which halts them from becoming good bowlers in International cricket.
 
Forgot to mention Zaman Khan , M.Wasim and Musa Khan , the list increased from 18 to 21.

Can fellow Indians PPers or guys from other countries list their 21 bowlers who can touch 140k+ and beyond? Open challenge bros.
 
Muhammad Saad said:
We witnessed lots of 140k bowlers in this tournament , Naseem , Shaheen , Rauf , Sameen , Jahandad ,Dahani ,Hasnain ,Sirajuddin , M.Zeeshan , Akif Javed , Ahmed Daniyal , That's about 11 pacers who can clock 140k+ and quiet a few 140k+ haven't got a game in this tournament like Ubaid Shah , Ali Raza , Zeeshan Zamir ,Ihsanullah , Aimal Khan , M.Amir Khan , Owais Ali , That's about 18 bowlers who can clock up to 140k and beyond , it's an insane quantity and even Aus and Saf don't have such quantity of 140k+ pacers in their domestic teams.

It's just about other skills and temperament and fitness they lack which halts them from becoming good bowlers in International cricket.
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We might have the quantity but the quality vanishes out of these 20 odd players.
 
Bowling 145 for 4 ovs is different fitness level from maintaining 135+ throughout 3 spells and 20 ovs on flat wkt.

Pace factory is producing only china copies instead of racecars
 
Vernon Philander, during commentary on Day 1 of the 2nd Test between South Africa and Pakistan:

"It’s an easy-paced surface. Perhaps you need a bowler who can bowl at 140+ to speed up the reaction off the surface. South Africa will be comfortable with bowlers hovering in the mid-120s or early 130s. I feel that they (Pakistan) needed that one bowler who can push it a little bit at 140+"
 
Muhammad Saad said:
We witnessed lots of 140k bowlers in this tournament , Naseem , Shaheen , Rauf , Sameen , Jahandad ,Dahani ,Hasnain ,Sirajuddin , M.Zeeshan , Akif Javed , Ahmed Daniyal , That's about 11 pacers who can clock 140k+ and quiet a few 140k+ haven't got a game in this tournament like Ubaid Shah , Ali Raza , Zeeshan Zamir ,Ihsanullah , Aimal Khan , M.Amir Khan , Owais Ali , That's about 18 bowlers who can clock up to 140k and beyond , it's an insane quantity and even Aus and Saf don't have such quantity of 140k+ pacers in their domestic teams.

It's just about other skills and temperament and fitness they lack which halts them from becoming good bowlers in International cricket.
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How many of these pacers can maintain their pace over 3 sessions in a Test Match?

Z-E-R-O

They can bowl 4 overs in a T-20 at Pace but in a Test Match even in the first session they are struggling and hovering around 140 K in the first session.

In the second session, they are "fast spinners" and by the third session, injured or not bowling!!
 
We did a blunder by dropping Naseem in place of Hamza , ideally they needed to drop Jamal in place of Noman as Noman can bat as well as Jamal and is 10x better bowler under these conditions.
 
LordJames said:
How many of these pacers can maintain their pace over 3 sessions in a Test Match?

Z-E-R-O

They can bowl 4 overs in a T-20 at Pace but in a Test Match even in the first session they are struggling and hovering around 140 K in the first session.

In the second session, they are "fast spinners" and by the third session, injured or not bowling!!
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Has PCB looked into reasons why these bowlers can’t maintain their pace?.Is it due to fitness,stamina,weak muscles,bowling action,run ups etc?.How come Australian and English bowlers can maintain their pace even when they are in their mid 30s?Stuart Broad was still bowling at good pace at age 37
 
Muhammad Saad said:
We did a blunder by dropping Naseem in place of Hamza , ideally they needed to drop Jamal in place of Noman as Noman can bat as well as Jamal and is 10x better bowler under these conditions.
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Right man dropped but wrong replacement. Naseem has mentally retired and I have no sympathy with overweight and unfit bowlers. Mir Hamza isn't even a county standard bowler and he was bigged up by people on here as an international bowler. Surely others can see what I can see
 
Bewal Express said:
Right man dropped but wrong replacement. Naseem has mentally retired and I have no sympathy with overweight and unfit bowlers. Mir Hamza isn't even a county standard bowler and he was bigged up by people on here as an international bowler. Surely others can see what I can see
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He shouldn’t be averaging any less than 28-30 even in first class cricket. Yet he has insane numbers. There really is no point of this first class system
 
ethan hunt said:
He shouldn’t be averaging any less than 28-30 even in first class cricket. Yet he has insane numbers. There really is no point of this first class system
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The FC system in PK is a total mess. The strength v Strength was scrapped because suddenly these guys were being found out.
 
Theres no stability. Constant chopping and changes at the helm of Pcb, which then leads to constant changing of coaches etc does not help at all.

Stability is a key ingredient in any organization to progress, and until that changes, this shower of xxite will continue to be served.
 
FearlessRoar said:
Vernon Philander, during commentary on Day 1 of the 2nd Test between South Africa and Pakistan:

"It’s an easy-paced surface. Perhaps you need a bowler who can bowl at 140+ to speed up the reaction off the surface. South Africa will be comfortable with bowlers hovering in the mid-120s or early 130s. I feel that they (Pakistan) needed that one bowler who can push it a little bit at 140+"
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Embarrassing really.

More so because in Naseem, Haris Rauf Pakistan does have bowlers who can bowl 140kph in test cricket
 
As I said earlier Naseem is blamed for not fulfilling the promised potential yet his handling is really poor atleast give him 4-5 tests in a row this in and out selection is not doing him any favours
 
Seriously I am scratching my head what can be done .

Whats the solution i really have none hence start shooting right away
 
May some fund like Unicef should be created to help our pacers. Or PCB to increase match fees for phasst bowlers. The harsh reality is nobody wants to be a test bowler.
 
Xoib said:
Seriously I am scratching my head what can be done .

Whats the solution i really have none hence start shooting right away
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Very easy solution: Keep trusting your domestic performers and give consistent chances. When they fail, rinse and repeat.

Also, avoid unnecessary reactions on every innings. I know the mind first goes to the “low pace”. Resist that temptation. It’s not the pace. It’s the execution. Sometimes you can execute and still get beaten internationally. Cummins, Starc, Lyon, and Hazelwood also get beaten to pulp some days, doesn’t mean they are bad bowlers.

I know it’s maybe too much to ask for many people here but try it. That’s how mature nations believe.
 
Kianig89 said:
May some fund like Unicef should be created to help our pacers. Or PCB to increase match fees for phasst bowlers. The harsh reality is nobody wants to be a test bowler.
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Yeah that’s the main crust the better once want to take the easy route of leagues money and maximum white ball glory
 
Let me tell you the harsh reality:

1. Lack of diet discipline

2. Lack of hard training

3. Lack of delivering long spells ( Red ball cricket)

4. Playing too much league cricket

5. Lack of self-belief
 
Lack of height , physical muscular frame and pace is also a problem

If you look at most sena countries their pace bowlers are usually 6ft+ and big units
 
mazkhan said:
Lack of height , physical muscular frame and pace is also a problem

If you look at most sena countries their pace bowlers are usually 6ft+ and big units
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Later but finally I have understood that muscular frame doesn’t matter. If that were the case Gulbadin Naib would have been the fastest bowler. It’s all about discipline and understanding your natural physique, along with focusing on the arm action and release angle to generate pace.
 
FearlessRoar said:
Let me tell you the harsh reality:

1. Lack of diet discipline

2. Lack of hard training

3. Lack of delivering long spells ( Red ball cricket)

4. Playing too much league cricket

5. Lack of self-belief
Click to expand...
I will add lack of proper fast bowling coaches.England has services of 5 fast bowling coaches at it’s national fast bowling academy+James Anderson as a mentor.
 
mazkhan said:
Lack of height , physical muscular frame and pace is also a problem

If you look at most sena countries their pace bowlers are usually 6ft+ and big units
Click to expand...
Muscles have next to no impact on bowling speed. It helps with sustaining pace and injury prevention though.

Most fast bowlers aren't 'units'. The only one I can think of off the top of my head is right now is Rabada.
 
WHat happened to them??

Simple answer is LACK OF EVERYTHING. Nothing else to say. These guys are ignorant and careless.
 
Fenrir said:
Has PCB looked into reasons why these bowlers can’t maintain their pace?.Is it due to fitness,stamina,weak muscles,bowling action,run ups etc?.How come Australian and English bowlers can maintain their pace even when they are in their mid 30s?Stuart Broad was still bowling at good pace at age 37
Click to expand...
Lack of FC Cricket! If you only play T20I and Pajama leagues around the world then your fitness is for 4 overs.

Bowling longer spells builds stamina.
 
In every generation a country produces 4-5 test class pacers we had Shaheen, Abbas, Naseem , Abbas, Amir and we all messed all of them .
Amir got himself banned and when he came back lost his elite skills decided to go mercenary for easy cash Naseem and Shaheen were not pushed to do the hard yards in FC and were allowed to play all kind of leagues to make easy money hence their red ball skills suffered and lost interest to do better in test cricket while Abbas was made to miss out on 70% of his peak years because he was phast enough
 
Former players,journalists and people within PCB with vested interests were very angry when regional team structure was created.They said regional structure will destroy Pakistan cricket so they went back to the old system.They argued many good cricketers were produced by the departmental system in the past so there is no need to change the system.The question is has the departmental system improved standard of cricket or is it no better than regional system.
 
Simple answer is lack of interest and passion left in cricket from youth because too much donkey work to be done to become a 4 day fast bowler and even after that there is no guarantee that you will get selected in FC teams and even if you get selected the financial benefits just doesn’t fit worth the effort. Either introduce money in to cricket or let it die , choice is yours.

There is still more chance to earn by playing 4 overs cricket and not much effort or fitness needed as well so youth prefer to become t20 specialists.
 
You get Jahandad , Imran khan and Abbas Afridi bowlers who are happy bowling in late 120s and early 130s with 3/4 effort deliveries in high 130s in 4 overs spell and expecting to earn in millions which they will actually earn by playing leagues all over the world.
 
LordJames said:
Lack of FC Cricket! If you only play T20I and Pajama leagues around the world then your fitness is for 4 overs.

Bowling longer spells builds stamina.
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Well said, and herein lies the problem with Pakistan cricket. PCB has long preferred T20 mercenaries over domestic FC players and the result is out in the open for all to see.
 
So Pakistan playing with 1 pacer only , not sure its s good move. Khurram Shehzad the lone warrior left to play red ball cricket for Pakistan
 
Xoib said:
As I said earlier Naseem is blamed for not fulfilling the promised potential yet his handling is really poor atleast give him 4-5 tests in a row this in and out selection is not doing him any favours
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He is not even fit. He looked the real deal, but seems to have adjusted to the pathetic levels.
 
Kianig89 said:
So Pakistan playing with 1 pacer only , not sure its s good move. Khurram Shehzad the lone warrior left to play red ball cricket for Pakistan
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With the amount of turn that was on offer on Day 1 alone. If Pakistani spinners cannot pick wickets here they better request ICC to take their Test status away.
 
Naseem Shah addressing a press conference in Karachi ahead of the second match against South Africa in the Tri-Nation ODI series:

"If you look at my last match, my speed was around 140 kph, which is considered normal in ODIs. There are only a few bowlers in the world who consistently bowl at 145-150 kph. In my opinion, in ODIs and Test cricket, line, length, and discipline matter more. Yes, speed is important, but if you bowl accurately at 137-140 kph, it is more effective. This is the average pace in world cricket today."
 
Naseem's fitness has taken a nose dive. He no longer looks like a bowler who can bowl long spells anymore.
 
AMSS said:
As an Indian fan, this is the one trait I like about Pakistan cricket. They don't intellectualize fast bowling to pick those who bowl fast and that too at a young-ish age.

In India, the entire cricketing establishment - from selectors to journos - are all about line, length, control, skill etc.
Click to expand...
How has that worked out for them?
 
Two things have happened.

1) They have made significant adjustments to their actions due to injuries (Naseem's follow through/Shaheen's alignment)
2) They don't adapt well to adversity when hit

This is hurting their control and general quality.

In Naseem's case, there's also the fitness element that is hampering him.
 
The excuses given for them during the 2023 World Cup was that Indian pitches are too flat.

Looks like they can't bowl on Pakistani pitches, given the evidence from tri series and CT :inti
 
Actully, there is nothing wrong with them. Wrong is with the people who kept over-hyping them and now they got a reality check. Since his comeback, Shaheen has been a trundler and only good in early overs. He is a t20 format bowler max. Same is with Haris.
 
In my humble opinion pace should not be the sole criteria for selecting a bowler. Whats the benefit of pace if bowlers dont take wickets at key moments by offering variations and tricking the batsmen? Thats a skill that is lacking in todays pak bowlers. Wasim, Amir, Asif had that quality even though they were not so fast.

Wahab and Haris just seem to be batting practice machines that the batsmen are used to playing and are easier to time. Shoaib Akhtar, Muhammad Sami and Waqar Younis were lethal in terms of speed and accurate with their deadly yorkers in their early years.

If that skill fades with age then its just a matter of bat flick and timing sync which would land ball in the stands.
 
Shaheen was expected to be better given that he is not picked for Tests at all. He should be relatively fresh. I can see from the clock speed. But generally one-dimensional bowling approach.
 
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