[PICTURE] Fact check: Moqa Moqa is nothing but a smokescreen by Indians to hide their embarrassing record against Pakistan

[jnaveen1980]

So the innings on those games played by Anwar, Afridi, YK and Inzi all came because of ball tampering?
India collapsing vs Kaneria and Afridi in Bangalore was due to ball tampering?

Not talking about that match. I am talking about your so called "overall" record. ALl your wins came with massive asterisk. Following articles show that

As old as the hills

The thorny subject of ball tampering has stalked the game for many years, but it is only in the last couple of decades that it has become something a wider audience has been aware of. Arguably, it has been going on since cricket's earliest days, but invas

www.espncricinfo.com

Read this article



Chris Pringle, at the time New Zealand's opening bowler, decided to take the law into his own hands. "There was something going on," he recalled in his autobiography Save The Last Ball For Me. "And whether what I did was the right or wrong way to make the ball look as it did in the next Test, I had to try it."

After another resounding defeat at Lahore, several of the New Zealanders experimented in the nets with scoring one side of an old ball with bottle tops. "With that technique, even guys like Mark Greatbatch and Martin Crowe were swinging the ball miles in the air," Pringle wrote. "We practised long and hard in the nets and were quite excited about the results we were getting with it." Crowe admitted that he ran in to bowl his normal inswingers "only to see the ball curve the other way ... I'd never bowled outswingers in my life!"

On the morning of the first day of the final Test at Faisalabad, Pringle decided to put what he had learned into practice. He found an old bottle top, cut it into quarters, covered the serrated edge with tape, leaving a sharp point exposed. At the first drinks interval the umpires did not ask to look at the ball and, with Pakistan making sedate progress, Pringle started scratching the ball with the bottle top. Pakistan crashed from 35 for 0 to 102 all out. Pringle finished with his Test-best figures of 7 for 52.

 

[pakistani pride]

Not talking about that match. I am talking about your so called "overall" record. ALl your wins came with massive asterisk. Following articles show that

As old as the hills

The thorny subject of ball tampering has stalked the game for many years, but it is only in the last couple of decades that it has become something a wider audience has been aware of. Arguably, it has been going on since cricket's earliest days, but invas

www.espncricinfo.com

Read this article



Chris Pringle, at the time New Zealand's opening bowler, decided to take the law into his own hands. "There was something going on," he recalled in his autobiography Save The Last Ball For Me. "And whether what I did was the right or wrong way to make the ball look as it did in the next Test, I had to try it."

After another resounding defeat at Lahore, several of the New Zealanders experimented in the nets with scoring one side of an old ball with bottle tops. "With that technique, even guys like Mark Greatbatch and Martin Crowe were swinging the ball miles in the air," Pringle wrote. "We practised long and hard in the nets and were quite excited about the results we were getting with it." Crowe admitted that he ran in to bowl his normal inswingers "only to see the ball curve the other way ... I'd never bowled outswingers in my life!"

On the morning of the first day of the final Test at Faisalabad, Pringle decided to put what he had learned into practice. He found an old bottle top, cut it into quarters, covered the serrated edge with tape, leaving a sharp point exposed. At the first drinks interval the umpires did not ask to look at the ball and, with Pakistan making sedate progress, Pringle started scratching the ball with the bottle top. Pakistan crashed from 35 for 0 to 102 all out. Pringle finished with his Test-best figures of 7 for 52.

But if Pak has been superior historically in TESTS which was my example and my question why did you not answer? 3 TEST wins on Indian soils is MASSIVE looking at the overall H2H.

If as you say ball tampering was so obvious why did India not use the same tactic if that as per your logic was the main reason.

 

[jnaveen1980]

But if Pak has been superior historically in TESTS which was my example and my question why did you not answer? 3 TEST wins on Indian soils is MASSIVE looking at the overall H2H.

If as you say ball tampering was so obvious why did India not use the same tactic if that as per your logic was the main reason.

Nobody wanted to do that because it was illegal? duh? You should ask why pakistan failed only in World cups against India. May be more scrutiny there?

 

[pakistani pride]

Nobody wanted to do that because it was illegal? duh? You should ask why pakistan failed only in World cups against India. May be more scrutiny there?

You just keep diverting from the question.
Why cant you credit Pak for the TEST wins on Indian soil.

Pakistan has dominated India in TEST matches. No harm in giving credit where it is due.

If you look at the 2005 tour of India by Pak (winning a TEST and winning 4 ODI's) that has nothing to do with ball tampering.

 

[jnaveen1980]

You just keep diverting from the question.
Why cant you credit Pak for the TEST wins on Indian soil.

Pakistan has dominated India in TEST matches. No harm in giving credit where it is due.

If you look at the 2005 tour of India by Pak (winning a TEST and winning 4 ODI's) that has nothing to do with ball tampering.

Yes. Bowling last became an advantage. Not saying it was won due to ball tampering. That was one test. But many in the 80s/90s were asterisk wins. But India did beat Pakistan in Pakistan comprehensively with two rookie bowlers Balaji and Irfan. only reason that record is still okay because they stopped playing tests against each other. If they had playe din the last 10 years this record would have been totally different.

 

[mb3407]

We have 7 icc trophies. Its more than double of Pakistan

 

[pakistani pride]

Yes. Bowling last became an advantage. Not saying it was won due to ball tampering. That was one test. But many in the 80s/90s were asterisk wins. But India did beat Pakistan in Pakistan comprehensively with two rookie bowlers Balaji and Irfan. only reason that record is still okay because they stopped playing tests against each other. If they had playe din the last 10 years this record would have been totally different.

Would have should have does not count.
That is subjective.

Fact is Pak has a superior H2H record. That is the purpose of this thread.

 

[jnaveen1980]

We have 7 icc trophies. Its more than double of Pakistan

At this point this rivalry is irrelevant. Pakistan has better things to worry about maintaining rivarly with India.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Would have should have does not count.
That is subjective.

Fact is Pak has a superior H2H record. That is the purpose of this thread.

As i said H2H due to shady practices in the 80s/90s. I was clear about that. aesterisk wins.

In 2000s

India 4-3

In 1990s

India 1-2

 

[Hitman]

Disclaimer: This thread has been made in response to some Indians, who needlessly derail other threads by irrelevant mention of Pakistan.

Indian team is better to Pakistan team in recent times and no one is contesting that but a lot of factors contribute to this recent slump of Pakistan with incompetence of PCB and it's politicization being a major factor. But besides India's laudable record against Pakistan in the ICC World Cup tournaments they trail Pakistan in almost every facet of the 1 v 1 stats

Below stats are until September 2023

View attachment 152179

Current standings for benefit of all (Credit: RizwanT20 Champ)

1. 73-58 in ODIs
2. 12-9 in Tests
3. 3-10 in T20Is

Take solace over that for the next 50 years, while other teams keep growing.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Take solace over that for the next 50 years, while other teams keep growing.

It may end much much sooner if PCB doesn't correct course...India is no Australia...it's just PCT that has been wayward off late.

 

[Hitman]

It may end much much sooner if PCB doesn't correct course...India is no Australia...it's just PCT that has been wayward off late.

You think we don't know that?

 

[kron]

Are you sure?????
View attachment 152183View attachment 152184
View attachment 152185

Have a look at who played for both teams

Indian players look like their stated age

Can’t say the same for some bearded bhaiyyas that play for Pakistan

 

[Master Blaster]

Talent bahut hai Pakistan mein.

No hope from the current hopeless team but good to see the Pak fans doing cornered tigers...

 

[NishanKonar]

As i said H2H due to shady practices in the 80s/90s. I was clear about that. aesterisk wins.

In 2000s

India 4-3

In 1990s

India 1-2

Naah

Pakistan was vastly superior to India in the 80s & 90s. Even without ball tampering they wud have won anyways. Stuff like ball tampering helps to a certain degree but skillset matter more. Do u think Shaheen or Naseem can do much damage witha tampered ball. They just dont have that ability

In fact in the 90s those 2 test matches Pakistan won did not even have much reverse swing. Saqlain Mushtaq did the maximum damage

90s India was basically Sachin Tendulkar and 10 woods. Things changed with the emergence of Sehwag , Dhoni, Zaheer, Harbhajan. Most importantly John Wright

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Have a look at who played for both teams

Indian players look like their stated age

Can’t say the same for some bearded bhaiyyas that play for Pakistan

Nope you are mixing U19 vs emerging Asia cup final

 

[guard]

Looks like the number will remain like that with Pakistan more or less ahead. The way the trend is going Pakistan will be playing qualifiers so maybe we won’t run into each other often. Congrats @The Bald Eagle

Pakistan cricket team or its (some) fans has no business mocking Indian cricket team.. such posts really irk.

ICT is light years ahead..please PCT fans, make the small incremental changes and hope the improvements materialise

 

[jnaveen1980]

Naah

Pakistan was vastly superior to India in the 80s & 90s. Even without ball tampering they wud have won anyways. Stuff like ball tampering helps to a certain degree but skillset matter more. Do u think Shaheen or Naseem can do much damage witha tampered ball. They just dont have that ability

In fact in the 90s those 2 test matches Pakistan won did not even have much reverse swing. Saqlain Mushtaq did the maximum damage

90s India was basically Sachin Tendulkar and 10 woods. Things changed with the emergence of Sehwag , Dhoni, Zaheer, Harbhajan. Most importantly John Wright

I think you are under-estimating the effect of scruffing up the ball on one side. The reversing effect definitely put batsmen off. Just because someone can reverse doesn't mean it is okay to tamper. Shami would have definitely benefitted.

 

[saimayubera]

Why was 2007 bigger compared to 2017? I mean on what basis its a T20 vs an ODI final.
Mohali 2011 can be debated yes, but it was not a final.

When we talk about ICC trophies there has been that one case in ODI cricket where both teams faced each other.

Because T20 is a World Cup and the biggest honor in the format.

CT is not the biggest honor in it's format, the ODI WC is.

 

[NishanKonar]

I think you are under-estimating the effect of scruffing up the ball on one side. The reversing effect definitely put batsmen off. Just because someone can reverse doesn't mean it is okay to tamper. Shami would have definitely benefitted.

Barring that Aquib javed spell in Sharjah - I neve recollect a Pakistani bowler using reverse swing effectively against India. Most of the wins were fair & square. I dont recollect Wasim or Waqar running thru the India line up with reverse swing. That's partly bcoz in ODIs India wud cleverly ask for a ball change after 35 overs and get a new ball - thus negate any chance of reverse swing !

Like in that 1999 India tour - Saqlain Mushtaq was the best bowler of the series.

Also reverse wing also existed in the 2000s. England used it effectively in that 2005 series. Zaheer Khan used to start reversing after 15 overs. Dale Steyn was also deadly with reverse swing in that era

BUt Pakistan bowlers lost that skill. Shoaib Akhtar , Sami , Asif , Amir - none of them could reverse the ball well. SO its not just about scruffing the ball

Anyways the broader point is Pakistan was much better than India. That actually was a good thing. Forced BCCI to take corrective action in the early 2000s. That helped India to move far ahead of Pakistan.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Are you sure?????
View attachment 152183View attachment 152184
View attachment 152185

Isn’t that the derogatory way to call Pakistanis?

 

[saimayubera]

Nope you are mixing U19 vs emerging Asia cup final

View attachment 152197

Hahahaha this cope?

30 year old Tayyab Tahir beating up a bunch of 19-22 year olds lol.

We saw what Tayyab Tahir did playing against people his own age.



And why are you post the 23 EAC? There was one last year as well.

 

[saimayubera]

Barring that Aquib javed spell in Sharjah - I neve recollect a Pakistani bowler using reverse swing effectively against India. Most of the wins were fair & square. I dont recollect Wasim or Waqar running thru the India line up with reverse swing. That's partly bcoz in ODIs India wud cleverly ask for a ball change after 35 overs and get a new ball - thus negate any chance of reverse swing !

Like in that 1999 India tour - Saqlain Mushtaq was the best bowler of the series.

Also reverse wing also existed in the 2000s. England used it effectively in that 2005 series. Zaheer Khan used to start reversing after 15 overs. Dale Steyn was also deadly with reverse swing in that era

BUt Pakistan bowlers lost that skill. Shoaib Akhtar , Sami , Asif , Amir - none of them could reverse the ball well. SO its not just about scruffing the ball

Anyways the broader point is Pakistan was much better than India. That actually was a good thing. Forced BCCI to take corrective action in the early 2000s. That helped India to move far ahead of Pakistan.

Also it hurts more for them to watch India dominating and getting better (in non cricketing aspects as well).

Bangladeshis don't have this complex because they have never been better than India.

 

[NishanKonar]

Why was 2007 bigger compared to 2017? I mean on what basis its a T20 vs an ODI final.
Mohali 2011 can be debated yes, but it was not a final.

When we talk about ICC trophies there has been that one case in ODI cricket where both teams faced each other.

To be fair only in Pakistan the CT is held in such hug esteem. probably they won beating India. Even in India the 2013 CT was rarely talked about

Like when India won 2024 T20 WC - Ravi Shastri said first ICC event since 2011. the 2013 CT win did not even register. Even now there is parade or ceremony to celebrate the CT win

 

[saimayubera]

I tagged you nowhere lol. And there's no comparison.

India has more ODI world cups , T20 World Cups , Champions Trophies and Asia cups than Pakistan.

You guys should compare with Sri Lanka or Bangladesh. That's your level.

SL has more Asia Cups and same number of ODI WC, T20 WC and CT.

 

[NishanKonar]

Also it hurts more for them to watch India dominating and getting better (in non cricketing aspects as well).

Bangladeshis don't have this complex because they have never been better than India.

Dont blame them. It always hurts seeing ur biggest rival doing well and ur own team in doldrums. Man Utd fsns know this feeling

We knew this feeling in the 90s - both in cricket& hockey. Now its good to be on the other side of the fence

regarding Bangladeshis - half their country ( Awaami league) loves India and hates Pakistan. the other half ( BNP & Jamaati ) loves Pakistan and hates India

 

[saimayubera]

To be fair only in Pakistan the CT is held in such hug esteem. probably they won beating India. Even in India the 2013 CT was rarely talked about

Like when India won 2024 T20 WC - Ravi Shastri said first ICC event since 2011. the 2013 CT win did not even register. Even now there is parade or ceremony to celebrate the CT win

Yeah lol

CT is a low hype tournament.

Pakistanis hyped it up big time in 2017 because:
1. They hadn't won an ODI WC since 92
2. Could use it for their selective "ICC Tournament" filter

Even this time after winning, Indians didn't celebrate that much. And after losing in 2017, Kohli didn't really give much of a damn.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Barring that Aquib javed spell in Sharjah - I neve recollect a Pakistani bowler using reverse swing effectively against India. Most of the wins were fair & square. I dont recollect Wasim or Waqar running thru the India line up with reverse swing. That's partly bcoz in ODIs India wud cleverly ask for a ball change after 35 overs and get a new ball - thus negate any chance of reverse swing !

Like in that 1999 India tour - Saqlain Mushtaq was the best bowler of the series.

Also reverse wing also existed in the 2000s. England used it effectively in that 2005 series. Zaheer Khan used to start reversing after 15 overs. Dale Steyn was also deadly with reverse swing in that era

BUt Pakistan bowlers lost that skill. Shoaib Akhtar , Sami , Asif , Amir - none of them could reverse the ball well. SO its not just about scruffing the ball

Anyways the broader point is Pakistan was much better than India. That actually was a good thing. Forced BCCI to take corrective action in the early 2000s. That helped India to move far ahead of Pakistan.

What? Entire chennai test had full of reverse swinging deliveries. Even Sachin mentioned that he was more comfortable against new ball

 

[saimayubera]

Looks like the number will remain like that with Pakistan more or less ahead. The way the trend is going Pakistan will be playing qualifiers so maybe we won’t run into each other often. Congrats @The Bald Eagle

Yup.

Exactly what has happened with hockey.

Ind-Pak in hockey since 2016. 15 wins. 2 draws. And even those draws were with a weakened team when the main team had a different assignment.

Since Pakistan don't qualify for World Cup, Olympics or FIH Pro League, India only occasionally faces them in Asian level tournaments.

 

[NishanKonar]

What? Entire chennai test had full of reverse swinging deliveries. Even Sachin mentioned that he was more comfortable against new ball

Naah I watched that test live. Wasim & Waqar did not really trouble the batters with the old ball

Dont think there was any reverse swing. Nayan Mongia got out to a loose shot. And Saqlain got Sachin with the doosra. After that Saqlian ran thru the tail

 

[jnaveen1980]

Naah I watched that test live. Wasim & Waqar did not really trouble the batters with the old ball

Dont think there was any reverse swing. Nayan Mongia got out to a loose shot. And Saqlain got Sachin with the doosra. After that Saqlian ran thru the tail

I watched it live too. Kumble or Srinath leg before was reverse. They didn't get much only against new ball.

Here is azhar mahmood's account of that match.

India. Pakistan. Chennai. 1999

Twenty years on, a look back at an extraordinary day of India-Pakistan cricket

www.thecricketmonthly.com

 

[Mesozoic]

SL has more Asia Cups and same number of ODI WC, T20 WC and CT.

Yes..my apologies to Sri Lanka as they deserve much respect.

In terms of sheer cricketing accolades and legacy , Pakistan are like 6th in the list after

1. Australia
2. India
3. West Indies
4. England
5. Sri Lanka

That is pretty sharamful really

 

[NishanKonar]

I watched it live too. Kumble or Srinath leg before was reverse. They didn't get much only against new ball.

Here is azhar mahmood's account of that match.

India. Pakistan. Chennai. 1999

Twenty years on, a look back at an extraordinary day of India-Pakistan cricket

www.thecricketmonthly.com

U can watch that innings again. There was hardly any reverse swing

 

[jnaveen1980]

U can watch that innings again. There was hardly any reverse swing

Rahul Dravid dismissal. One that was shaped to come back in and left him late. Indians are generally good against full balls that is why Pakistan did not have same success like Jadeja obliterated Waqar in 1996 world cup. Indians were strong off the pads. So that one delivery which bamboozled everyone in the world could not be that effective. But it was still effetive against tail.

 

[JaDed]

Blockbuster thread welldone!

 

[jnaveen1980]

Blockbuster thread welldone!

This thread is spin off from another thread i think. It will descend into chaos as usual. We will make sure of it

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Blockbuster thread welldone!

Tbh credit goes to @Mesozoic and others in other thread by me...They love to digress to Pakistan in India related thread and now they have great liberty to do that

 

[uppercut]

Would have should have does not count.
That is subjective.

Fact is Pak has a superior H2H record. That is the purpose of this thread.

See post# 46. I am ok with you claiming that you actually won every single bilateral ODI and T20I matches vs India. I can assure you that nobody gives a rats tail about those matches. The big cheese has always been the ODI WC followed by the T20 WC.

As for Tests it is meaningless because its been almost 18 years since we last played a test series and it coincided with the weakest ERA for pakistan ... and strongest for India unless you want to claim otherwise lol.

 

[JaDed]

Tbh credit goes to @Mesozoic and others in other thread by me...They love to digress to Pakistan in India related thread and now they have great liberty to do that

Lol .. cmon bro I’m sure you like it too, Indian critic threads are on fromt page of both TP and Cricket.

 

[pakistani pride]

As i said H2H due to shady practices in the 80s/90s. I was clear about that. aesterisk wins.

In 2000s

India 4-3

In 1990s

India 1-2

So you are saying India in the 80s/90s was as good as Pak team, in order words without ''tampering'' Pak would not have dominated TEST matches vs India?

 

[pakistani pride]

Because T20 is a World Cup and the biggest honor in the format.

CT is not the biggest honor in it's format, the ODI WC is.

Again, terming T20 WC higher to a Indo - Pak ICC event final is subjective. Fact is (again) looking at 50 OVER ICC EVENTS. The final in 2017 is the only game ever played between the 2 which was a final. You can keep downgrading that particular game, but Pak won the trophy.

 

[pakistani pride]

Pakistan cricket team or its (some) fans has no business mocking Indian cricket team.. such posts really irk.

ICT is light years ahead..please PCT fans, make the small incremental changes and hope the improvements materialise

Who is mocking ICT?
We acknowledge the success of the ICT.

 

[pakistani pride]

See post# 46. I am ok with you claiming that you actually won every single bilateral ODI and T20I matches vs India. I can assure you that nobody gives a rats tail about those matches. The big cheese has always been the ODI WC followed by the T20 WC.

As for Tests it is meaningless because its been almost 18 years since we last played a test series and it coincided with the weakest ERA for pakistan ... and strongest for India unless you want to claim otherwise lol.

This thread is about the overall H2H - you dismissing bilateral does not change the facts.
So what they have not played a TEST for 18 years, that is not the point. Now we are in a time where Pak team is at its weakest, that how it goes in sports. Even if both teams never play a TEST match again - result will be that Pak will always have the superior record in TEST cricket.

 

[pakistani pride]

This thread is spin off from another thread i think. It will descend into chaos as usual. We will make sure of it

Make sure of what?
H2H are facts, you can spin it the way you want, but the numbers overall are what they are.

 

[jnaveen1980]

So you are saying India in the 80s/90s was as good as Pak team, in order words without ''tampering'' Pak would not have dominated TEST matches vs India?

As I say "asterisk" wins. Would have been a lot closer without bad umpiring and ball tampering.

 

[pakistani pride]

As I say "asterisk" wins. Would have been a lot closer without bad umpiring and ball tampering.

That was not the question, you keep avoiding it.
Talent, ability and skill wise - Was the Indian team(s) in the 80s/90s as good as the Pak team?

 

[jnaveen1980]

That was not the question, you keep avoiding it.
Talent, ability and skill wise - Was the Indian team(s) in the 80s/90s as good as the Pak team?

We beat you in three world cups even without being good. Match fixing sharja matches are not counted. We don't know which one were fixed. which one were not. BC Cooray umpiring is another joke. The thing is match ups is all that matters. Pakistan's strength against other sides is not the same against India. They played spin better than any other country. They played full balls from pacers better. That was the main strength of pakistan that too against two teams England and New zealand. Paksitan ddi lose to Srilanka and Zimbabwe at home. Even against Average Indian side Pakistan lost all 3 world cup games. won 2 tests (1 is very close. India choked). lost 1 test. That is the maximum achievement.

 

[pakistani pride]

We beat you in three world cups even without being good. Match fixing sharja matches are not counted. We don't know which one were fixed. which one were not. BC Cooray umpiring is another joke. The thing is match ups is all that matters. Pakistan's strength against other sides is not the same against India. They played spin better than any other country. They played full balls from pacers better. That was the main strength of pakistan that too against two lulloo teams England and New zealand. Paksitan ddi lose to Srilanka and Zimbabwe at home. Even against Average Indian side Pakistan lost all 3 world cup games. won 2 tests (1 is very close. India choked). lost 1 test. That is the maximum achievement.

So now it is fixing?
As per Pak media WC 96 (the only WC game in the 90s that actually mattered) was fixed as well.

And what is the point in bringing other teams to a thread about Pak vs India H2H?

We Pak fans say and accept that for the past 10 years or so the Indian team is stronger.

Why is it so hard for you to accept the 80s/90s Pak team was better?

 

[uppercut]

This thread is about the overall H2H - you dismissing bilateral does not change the facts.

I'am indeed talking about Bilaterals and already told you that you are free to claim that your team won in ALL Bilateral ODI's. Nobody gives a crap about that. The Big cheese is in the ICC Events. In the 2 Flagship ICC WC Events the record is 15-1 ... do you still want to brag ? If I were you I would at this point quietly exit lol​

So what they have not played a TEST for 18 years, that is not the point. Now we are in a time where Pak team is at its weakest, that how it goes in sports. Even if both teams never play a TEST match again - result will be that Pak will always have the superior record in TEST cricket.

it doesn't make any sense to pretend that you have had some sort of "Superiority" over India in 2025 because you very well know how brutal the hammerings would be in the past 18 yrs .... there is a reason why every single rational Pakistani is crying hai-tauba. You are welcome to clinge on to long bygone era's. I will even make it sweeter by accepting that Pakistan won all ODI bilaterals lol ... Choti Choti khushiyaan I suppose ?​

 

[jnaveen1980]

So now it is fixing?
As per Pak media WC 96 (the only WC game in the 90s that actually mattered) was fixed as well.

And what is the point in bringing other teams to a thread about Pak vs India H2H?

We Pak fans say and accept that for the past 10 years or so the Indian team is stronger.

Why is it so hard for you to accept the 80s/90s Pak team was better?

In the most important games Paksitan failed. Ya.. they were better. only slightly. Not yawning gap like we see now.

 

[pakistani pride]

I'am indeed talking about Bilaterals and already told you that you are free to claim that your team won in ALL Bilateral ODI's. Nobody gives a crap about that. The Big cheese is in the ICC Events. In the 2 Flagship ICC WC Events the record is 15-1 ... do you still want to brag ? If I were you I would at this point quietly exit lol​

it doesn't make any sense to pretend that you have had some sort of "Superiority" over India in 2025 because you very well know how brutal the hammerings would be in the past 18 yrs .... there is a reason why every single rational Pakistani is crying hai-tauba. You are welcome to clinge on to long bygone era's. I will even make it sweeter by accepting that Pakistan won all ODI bilaterals lol ... Choti Choti khushiyaan I suppose ?​

Why would I exit?
For what?

You cant decide for others which games or series mean more or less.

Like we can say the 92 and 99 WC losses mean 0 for us.

Where did I say Pak is superior over India in the year 2025?

 

[pakistani pride]

In the most important games Paksitan failed. Ya.. they were better. only slightly. Not yawning gap like we see now.

Thanks for admitting Pak was the better team in that period.

 

[uppercut]

Why is it so hard for you to accept the 80s/90s Pak team was better?

Because even with our weakest team we won the Benson and Hedges World Championship , beat you multiple times in Asia cup, and ofcourse 3 times in WC during 90s. We also drew a proper 4 Test matches Series in Pakistan circa 1989. So thats why its not that cut and dry. There is a lot of cricketing nuance that has to be factored in. Yes on paper your team was much better but the results don't show it.​

There is a reason why you have a 27-9 record in big ICC events.

 

[uppercut]

Why would I exit?
For what?

You cant decide for others which games or series mean more or less.

Like we can say the 92 and 99 WC losses mean 0 for us.

Is that why Pakistani players were getting threats after loss to India ? Is that why Akram still has to explain why he could not play in 96 WC QF ? I could go on and on .... so no you are absolutely wrong.

Where did I say Pak is superior over India in the year 2025?

then what is the point of you saying if there is no more tests then your record will prevail etc etc ... ? What is your point of all the posts in this thread ?

 

[saimayubera]

Again, terming T20 WC higher to a Indo - Pak ICC event final is subjective. Fact is (again) looking at 50 OVER ICC EVENTS. The final in 2017 is the only game ever played between the 2 which was a final. You can keep downgrading that particular game, but Pak won the trophy.

There is nothing subjective about it.

These are the facts:

1. The T20 WC is also an ICC event.
2. There has been a T20 WC final between Ind-Pak which India has won.
3. T20 WC > CT because the T20 WC is the biggest event of it's format, CT is not. Even the ICC recognizes that. The prize money for T20 WC 2024 > CT 2025

No one is downgrading that final but fact is in ICC KOs Ind and Pak have met 4 times with Ind winning 3 and 2 of those Ind won the cup (07 and 11).

The ICC event hierarchy is

ODI WC > T20WC > CT

and that can be seen by the prize money as well.

Pakistan have only won a KO in the least prestigious of the three against India.

Also India have won CT twice defeating Pakistan (2013 and 2025) and in the second one was responsible for kicking Pakistan out. And they have won one more (2002).

 

[saimayubera]

Why would I exit?
For what?

You cant decide for others which games or series mean more or less.

Like we can say the 92 and 99 WC losses mean 0 for us.

Where did I say Pak is superior over India in the year 2025?

India have defeated Pakistan and gone on to win the trophy 5 times (2007, 2011, 2013, 2024, 2025) and this includes all the three ICC events.

Pakistan have done so only once and that is the least prestigious one.

 

[saimayubera]

Why would I exit?
For what?

You cant decide for others which games or series mean more or less.

Like we can say the 92 and 99 WC losses mean 0 for us.

Where did I say Pak is superior over India in the year 2025?

You can personally decide which series means more or less to you.

But the ICC which is the governing body clearly has a preference and that can be seen in the prize money.

 

[sweep_shot]

Pakistan were superior to India in cricket from 1947 till 2013 (till the aane do series in India which Pakistan won).

It is after 2013, India started to dominate.

It evident from the head-to-head records.

 

[jnaveen1980]

India have defeated Pakistan and gone on to win the trophy 5 times (2007, 2011, 2013, 2024, 2025) and this includes all the three ICC events.

Pakistan have done so only once and that is the least prestigious one.

India is a tournament team

So far 16 Asia cup ODI/T20 has happened

India has won 8 of them
Srilanka won 6 of them
Pakistan has won 2 of them

Even in their supposedly peak form

1984 India
1986 Srilanka
1988 India
1990 India
1995 India
1997 Srilanka

Pakistan won their first Asia cup only in 2000

India also destroyed Pakistan twice in Benson & Hedges world champinoship both in preliminary round and the final

Don't have to say much about world cup matches

Pakistan did win in some exhibition series like Toronto series. Even there in toronto the record was 13-12 Paksitan. Just one match extra. Sharjah series. INdia sent B string side like Mohanty and others to Paksitan in 1997. Even with B string side India won a match.

When it comes to top events Pakistan was far inferior to India. Asia cup, World cup, World T20 etc.

 

[Hitman]

Pakistan were superior to India in cricket from 1947 till 2013 (till the aane do series in India which Pakistan won).

It is after 2013, India started to dominate.

It evident from the head-to-head records.

Pakistan didn't even play cricket till 1952. Pakistan was superior till 2013?

 

[uppercut]

Again, terming T20 WC higher to a Indo - Pak ICC event final is subjective. Fact is (again) looking at 50 OVER ICC EVENTS. The final in 2017 is the only game ever played between the 2 which was a final. You can keep downgrading that particular game, but Pak won the trophy.

Not really ... lookup Benson and Hedges World Championship final in 1985/86. That was a ICC Event and a precursor to the Champions trophy.

And Ofcourse in T20 there was 2007 final.

 

[uppercut]

India is a tournament team

So far 16 Asia cup ODI/T20 has happened

India has won 8 of them
Srilanka won 6 of them
Pakistan has won 2 of them

Even in their supposedly peak form

1984 India
1986 Srilanka
1988 India
1990 India
1995 India
1997 Srilanka

Pakistan won their first Asia cup only in 2000

India also destroyed Pakistan twice in Benson & Hedges world champinoship both in preliminary round and the final

Don't have to say much about world cup matches

Pakistan did win in some exhibition series like Toronto series. Even there in toronto the record was 13-12 Paksitan. Just one match extra. Sharjah series. INdia sent B string side like Mohanty and others to Paksitan in 1997. Even with B string side India won a match.

When it comes to top events Pakistan was far inferior to India. Asia cup, World cup, World T20 etc.

So we won every major trophy well before Pakistan And many times more often and still posters here are trying to doggedly defend the bilateral record ... hilarious

 

[Hikaru]

@Hikaru @Bhaijaan @Hitman @Nikhil_cric @cricketjoshila heartiest invitation to this thread. I am waiting and ready.

No one takes this 73-58* seriously, we all know the Pakistani methods from 90s.

 

[Hikaru]

So we won every major trophy well before Pakistan And many times more often and still posters here are trying to doggedly defend the bilateral record ... hilarious

Doobtey ko tinke ka sahara, 73-58 is that tinka.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

Disclaimer: This thread has been made in response to some Indians, who needlessly derail other threads by irrelevant mention of Pakistan.

Indian team is better to Pakistan team in recent times and no one is contesting that but a lot of factors contribute to this recent slump of Pakistan with incompetence of PCB and it's politicization being a major factor. But besides India's laudable record against Pakistan in the ICC World Cup tournaments they trail Pakistan in almost every facet of the 1 v 1 stats

Below stats are until September 2023

View attachment 152179

Current standings for benefit of all (Credit: RizwanT20 Champ)

1. 73-58 in ODIs
2. 12-9 in Tests
3. 3-10 in T20Is

Those who have nothing in present, and have no future.. dwell in the past with statements of "hamare zamaane mein".

 

[uppercut]

Doobtey ko tinke ka sahara, 73-58 is that tinka.

And I absolutely love how we are systematically taking out one straw per year ( i.e. in major events only ) dragging out the agony .... a la the Chinese drip torture when everyone knows the eventual outcome would be even more lopsided track record in major events than the current 27-9 ... lol
​

 

[jnaveen1980]

Pakistan didn't even play cricket till 1952. Pakistan was superior till 2013?

It is very much like how USA is having strangle hold over Bangladesh for 100 years in cricket

 

[sweep_shot]

Pakistan were superior to India in cricket from 1947 till 2013 (till the aane do series in India which Pakistan won).

It is after 2013, India started to dominate.

It evident from the head-to-head records.

In terms of years, Pakistan have dominated India in cricket for 66 years (1947-2013).

India have dominated Pakistan for 12 years (2013-present).
India was a punching bag in 20th century. Even Kenya beat them twice. It is only recently India started to dominate.

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

In terms of years, Pakistan have dominated India in cricket for 66 years (1947-2013).

India have dominated Pakistan for 12 years (2013-present).
India was a punching bag in 20th century. Even Kenya beat them twice. It is only recently India started to dominate.

Exactly, we have to spank the east and west Pakistan for 100 years to even make up for the shame of the past.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Yeah, India's overall record is bad but tbh, having a better record in ICC events is something any team will be proud off.

Still India will never be able to digest that 2017 final loss. that was embarrassing for them to the core.

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

Yeah, India's overall record is bad but tbh, having a better record in ICC events is something any team will be proud off.

Still India will never be able to digest that 2017 final loss. that was embarrassing for them to the core.

Any loss to Pakistan is a shame. Yes! We dont take it lightly.
Please continue to mock us with 2017 .. oh wait its been a long time someone mentioned the Miandad six against our trundler Chetan Sharma. The real fighter Pakistani spirit. We are nothing compared to that.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Yeah, India's overall record is bad but tbh, having a better record in ICC events is something any team will be proud off.

Still India will never be able to digest that 2017 final loss. that was embarrassing for them to the core.

Loss to any average team is not easy for fans. Be it is Australia in 2023 world cup or Pakistan in 2017 or NZ in 2019. But India has avenged all the defeats.

 

[Hitman]

Any loss to Pakistan is a shame. Yes! We dont take it lightly.
Please continue to mock us with 2017 .. oh wait its been a long time someone mentioned the Miandad six against our trundler Chetan Sharma. The real fighter Pakistani spirit. We are nothing compared to that.

The only time Pakistan genuinely had a better team than India was in the 80's and the 90's.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Any loss to Pakistan is a shame. Yes! We dont take it lightly.
Please continue to mock us with 2017 .. oh wait its been a long time someone mentioned the Miandad six against our trundler Chetan Sharma. The real fighter Pakistani spirit. We are nothing compared to that.

If it is a shame then accept it gracefully brother like we are accepting that Pakistan's overall record in ICC events is hilarious...


BUT 2017 defeat??? That was special for many reasons.

Pakistan was rock-bottom team then, Barely qualified for that event, got smoked to all parts of the ground in the very first game by INDIA but then defeated the same team in the game that matters the most, (FINAL).


HEAVY

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

If it is a shame then accept it gracefully brother like we are accepting that Pakistan's overall record in ICC events is hilarious...


BUT 2017 defeat??? That was special for many reasons.

Pakistan was rock-bottom team then, Barely qualified for that event, got smoked to all parts of the ground in the very first game by INDIA but then defeated the same team in the game that matters the most, (FINAL).


HEAVY

Exactly, nothing will ever compare to 2017 win by Pakistan over India. NOTHING

 

[saimayubera]

If it is a shame then accept it gracefully brother like we are accepting that Pakistan's overall record in ICC events is hilarious...


BUT 2017 defeat??? That was special for many reasons.

Pakistan was rock-bottom team then, Barely qualified for that event, got smoked to all parts of the ground in the very first game by INDIA but then defeated the same team in the game that matters the most, (FINAL).


HEAVY

No one is saying it is not special.

ICC tournament wins are always great.

But India have beaten Pakistan in KOs in greater events and gone on to win the tournament was the point - 2011 Mohali semi and 2007 Joburg final, both of which were World Cups in their respective formats.

2017 CT win is at the level of India's 1985 WCC win.

 

[Sachin fan]

U can watch that innings again. There was hardly any reverse swing

So the players who actually played the game are wrong and lying and only you are correct. Ok then.

 

[saimayubera]

Yeah, India's overall record is bad but tbh, having a better record in ICC events is something any team will be proud off.

Still India will never be able to digest that 2017 final loss. that was embarrassing for them to the core.

2025 has actually surpassed it for everyone for a variety of factors.

Unlike 2017, win was both on and off field and only magnified with time and was not just a one day thing.

1. Making Pakistan fly out to Dubai in their own home tournament and then playing in a stadium with Indian fans and an Indian DJ and then defeating Pakistan and kicking them out in 4 days.

2. Getting into the finals and taking out the final from Pakistan, ensuring no ICC tournament final will be played in Pakistan in 35 years (till 2031 at least).

3. Winning the final and taking away Pakistan's only held trophy. Also the final was turned into a complete Indian affair with Coke Studio India doing the mid game show as well as BCCI chairman/Jay Shah on the podium.

To add insult to injury, Fakhar, the architect of that 2017 win got injured 2 balls into the tournament and might have played his last ICC tournament.

Not only has 2025 exorcised the ghosts of 2017, it also exorcised 2021 (although I'd argue it was done in 2024 when India kicked Pak out and won the trophy, something Pak were unable to do in 2021).

In Dubai, on the same ground Pakistan were eliminated and with the architect of that win, Shaheen smashed to all corners. To make things sweeter, Varun, who was made a scapegoat came back well in a tournament in the same place and won an ICC trophy (which the Pak team could not in 2021).

 

[Hikaru]

At this point these threads are more about hyping up a zabardasti ki rivalry. No one in Bharat cares or loses sleep over a record we can flip anytime by choosing to play against Pakistan.

 

[BouncerGuy]

No one in Bharat cares or loses sleep over a record we can flip anytime by choosing to play against Pakistan.

Don't say that you don't care... just come and play and flip the record bro... Who is stopping you?? your government for political reasons...

You have a chance to do moqa moqa but BCCI is choosing to skip Pakistan.