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[PICTURES] Is Virat Kohli the greatest ODI run chaser in history?

Kohli is amazing, but I'd take Dhoni as the first name on my ODI team for chasing purposes.
 
I have not seen a bettar ODI player on flat tracks never. But i am still skeptical about his credentials on pitches that have a bit more to offer for the quicks.
 
ofcourse!

Those of you who are downplaying him are just jealous. Kohli did at this age what legends did latter in their career
 
Scrolln said:
Virat Kohli now has 11 tons in ODI chases only behind SRT (who has 17)

Kohli is now ahead of Ponting (8 tons), Lara (9 tons) , Anwar (10 tons), Gilchrist (8 tons), Gayle (11 tons) , Jayasuriya (10 tons), Inzamam (4 tons)

Mindboggling! He is just 25, how many more to go?? :kohli

Is he the greatest ODI run chaser in history?
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:afridi:afrid comparing kohli to true greats....seems anything goes if indias roads were laras home he would have scored 300 in an odi........
 
Fahdi said:
I have not seen a bettar ODI player on flat tracks never. But i am still skeptical about his credentials on pitches that have a bit more to offer for the quicks.
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he may not be the best finisher yet but he averages 51 in AUS ENG and SA!
 
For those who always complain on current players (especially batsman) for having the luxuries of hapless Bowlers, Helmets, Guards, Flat Pitches, etc, etc, blah, blah.... Let me tell you - the kind of pressure the current players face (from the fans, media, etc) is so so immense compared to the past. In the past, players used to play cricket more for passion (I am not telling they were not competitive, of course they used to play for "win"), but today the responses, attentions, coverage is so much, and even getting into a playing XI is really tough.

Add technology.... So many so called great batsmen used to survive from close LBW, runouts (no replay), thin-edges, etc and the benefit always used to go to the batsmen. Due to technology today, the umpires are also under pressure to be more accurate (I am not telling that in the past they were lazy/partial, even they used to make decisions more with passion and motion and professionalism of course) This "pressure" factor I am talking about.

And you can also note that though there were some really great players like Richards, Gavaskar, Kapil, Imran, Akram, etc, the teams used to also have some pretty below average & fit-for-nothing players in their Playing-XI. But today, every player in the team is selected based on deep-scrutiny. These Vinays, Ishanths, etc, will be mercilessly thrown out of the team once better replacements are found. In the past, it was not so competitive and these sort of guys (in fact much inferior) would have a full-span career for themselves with meager talent.

There were players in the past who used to walk/run like Grandpas on the field and people/viewers used to hardly comment on them. They used to accept them as normal in fact. But today, these players are ridiculed & filtered. Is it that the players in the past were less athletic or was it because cricket was not that competitive/serious those days? I would call the latter!

So please don't compare cricketers/cricket from the past and to the present. Just accept that there were as many pluses & as many minuses in both the eras (and that players have had the journey from one era to the other). If you want to compare, just do the plain statistical comparison (the averages, the strike-rates, those are enough) "Statistics" eliminates most of the confusions of eras and somehow gives us the neutral verdict.

PS: It is true that over the time, the playing conditions have changed, cricket has changed, rules are changed. Bowlers have gone weaker, batsmen have gone stronger. If so then, you can add a cushion to the statistics like "today's 40+ averaged batsman = yesterday's 30+ averaged batsmen", "today's 30- averaged bowler = yesterday's 25- bowler". Just make this simple statistical adjustment, but please don't defame the players completely saying that yesterday's players were champions, and today's are jokers! As Indian I would accept that our yesteryear players were average, and today we have the best players. This has nothing to do with eras, playing conditions, BCCI, money, etc!
 
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Master Blaster said:
That would be Bevan and Klusner.

Will judge Kohli and other playing contenders after they retire.
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Come on, Bevan is the greatest but Klusener doesn't even come close to Dhoni. That guy has ice water in his veins.
 
Nobody wants to mention Bevan coming down the order has a greater chance at remaining not out, thus inflating his average?
oh that point is only used when discussing Dhoni.
 
yep he his, almost always he paces his innings to perfection, and you don't see him getting out to rash shots often
 
Is Kohli the greatest ODI run chaser in history?

Eye_Done said:
India play so many ODIs on roads at home so obviously their batsmen will score lot of 100s. :kohli is just weak bowler basher on flat tracks. Not too long ago :junaid showed how good :kohli is against good bowlers on decent pitches.
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Do you post anything meaningful other than copy & pasting the same rubbish?
 
he has 4 100s in 300+ chase and in 3 out of 4 times indian openers had already provided a brilliant opening partnership to start with. Scoring such knocks with 0/0 on board is another job.

in 133 vs SL ,came in at 86/2 in 9.2
in 100* vs AUS, came in at 176/1 in 26
in 115* vs AUS, came in at 179/1 in 29.

so having good openers in your team is also an advantage, which most other teams dont have. :misbah_old
 
kohli is the best ever batsman in the world when chasing & the best ever by miles when chasing 300+ scores

look at this - http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...0;qualval1=runs;template=results;type=batting

kohli avges 65 with a sr of 90. bevan avged 56 with a sr of 67. dhoni avges 52 with a sr of 82

in matches won when chasing. here r the stats - http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...1=runs;result=1;template=results;type=batting

dhoni avges 101 with sr of 89, kohli avges 86 with sr of 95, bevan avges 86 with sr of 66
 
He is right up there with the best of them. But I do think the flat pitches and small boundaries bend the stats heavily in his favour.

We'll need to see how Kohli does against top bowling attack on a seeming wicket where 200 is the par score.

Either way, he is up there, the guy has no fear. He plays sensibly but is still very dangerous, our boys could learn a heck of lot about batting from him. If they could average half what he's been averaging recently I would take it.
 
amit said:
dhoni avges 101 with sr of 89, kohli avges 86 with sr of 95, bevan avges 86 with sr of 66
Click to expand...

If India were playing outside of India chasing 225, with their score at 75-4, I would much rather have Dhoni at the crease than Kohli. Not to say KJohli won't improve, but I think you guys are letting the flat pitches deceive you.
 
The "tennis ball cricket brand" that is played in India is quite different from what PAK and other non Asian teams play, therefore it calls for different frame of references for comparing averages of Indian batsmen with batsmen of past/other countries.
 
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amax said:
The "tennis ball cricket brand" that is played in India is completely different from what PAK and other non Asian teams play, therefore it calls for different frame of references for comparing averages of Indian batsmen with batsmen of past/other countries.
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In ODI's, there is a trend towards flatter wickets everywhere. Kohli has played few sensational knocks away from India as well. One in Aus and one in BD against Pakistan comes to my mind. Even away from home, this kid is averaging 64.xx at SR of 88.xx while chasing. Playing at home is not boosting his records. He has played only 40 odd games away , but only 6 players in entire history have more centuries while playing away.

I think argument has more weight in Test matches because wickets are lot different around the world. It's lot harder to do well in test format away from home. That's why I put lot of weight for away performance. It's not a surprise that only handful of batsmen from SC have 50+ away average in Test and names are not surprise as well.
 
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Buffet said:
In ODI's, there is a trend towards flatter wickets everywhere. Kohli has played few sensational knocks away from India as well. One in Aus and one in BD against Pakistan comes to my mind. Even away from home, this kid is averaging 64.xx at SR of 88.xx.Playing at home is not boosting his records. He has played only 40 odd games away, but only 6 players in entire history have more centuries while playing away.

I think argument has more weight in Test matches because wickets are lot different around the world. It's lot harder to do well in test format away from home. That's why I put lot of weight for away performance. It's not a surprise that only handful of batsmen from SC have 50+ away average in Test and names are not surprise as well.
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valid argument buffet, I think it is the current series that has taken run feasts to whole new level and really removed the gloss of batsmen's achievements.

cricinfo staff's comment today sums it nicely

Ali Ayyaz: "Misbah needs just 3 more runs to reach 1000 runs this year. Is he still top of the list or did George Bailey move ahead with his 150+ knock the other day?" --- Ali, Bailey and Kohli moved past 1000 in that tennis-ball match
 
amax said:
valid argument buffet, I think it is the current series that has taken run feasts to whole new level and really removed the gloss of batsmen's achievements.
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Yaah, wickets are too flat in this series otherwise on slightly turning tracks I won't expect Aus to match India firepower in each match. I think it's combination of many things here which is producing consistent 300+ from both sides. Good hitters from both sides + flat wickets + new rules of only 4 fielders. I think if they have 5 fielders outside then that itself will cut around 15-20 runs easily. Then with bit turning tracks we would have mostly seen 260-280 scores even with good batting.

ICC should simply go back to 5 fielder outside rule. That's lot easier to control than the pitch itself. Most venues are mostly flat in ODIs for obvious reasons but after a while even spectators will not like seeing the bat dominating the ball so much. There is T-20 format for that.

Pakistan/SA games are providing a huge change from that and I do like it but I don't like to see too poor batting from both sides as well. Bowling has been very good from both sides but batting has been equally poor. Reminds me a bit of recent Pakistan-WI series.
 
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bones said:
If India were playing outside of India chasing 225, with their score at 75-4, I would much rather have Dhoni at the crease than Kohli. Not to say KJohli won't improve, but I think you guys are letting the flat pitches deceive you.
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dhoni would bring that to 10 needed off the last over, hit a 4 & 6 and finish the match with 3 balls remaining, whereas kohli will finish it within 45 overs. thats the difference
 
amit said:
dhoni would bring that to 10 needed off the last over, hit a 4 & 6 and finish the match with 3 balls remaining, whereas kohli will finish it within 45 overs. thats the difference
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Or get out even quicker.

Don't get me wrong. Kohli is fantastic when he is on fire. Even can beat Dhoni on his day.

But I've always felt, you can count on Dhoni more in a chase. You can be sure if Dhoni is there at the end, he will pull you through.

With Kohli, you always feel you will get a chance to grab his wicket.
 
Dr_Bassim said:
Or get out even quicker.

Don't get me wrong. Kohli is fantastic when he is on fire. Even can beat Dhoni on his day.

But I've always felt, you can count on Dhoni more in a chase. You can be sure if Dhoni is there at the end, he will pull you through.

With Kohli, you always feel you will get a chance to grab his wicket.
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but still, both are match winners. dhoni likes to take matches to the last over and finish them and make the match more interesting than what it was looking like. kohli wants to finish it off quickly and it looks like he is in a hurry. earlier he used to throw his wicket away around 2009-2010, but now he bats more sensibly and looks to remain not out at the end

still, for chases <300, its dhoni & chases >300, its kohli
 
srh said:
typical paindoo comparison not considering pitches, conditions, rules changes, opposition bowling quality etc.

Bevan is the best ODI run chaser ever and in a different league than any other run chaser.
Same way like Bradman is the best batsman ever and in a different league than any other batsman.
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i agree bevan played in a different era , but the important thing is that , others in this era are also playing in same conditions as :kohli , still they are not scoring like him. There must be something special about :kohli
 
The answer to the OP is yes... In the sub-continent.
 
Very good player, potentially a great but overhyped by his fans.
 
Against weak bowling attacks on roads - absolutely. He's still a top quality player.
 
Bevan is the greatest ever in this regard. I told you guys that this thread is stupid.
 
He is a quality ODI batsman and a very good chaser, he's done that many times.

However it's far too early to say he's the greatest chaser, he may well become the best but we will see in a few years time.
 
so he fails in 2 odis and.... he becomes worse than.... Malik?
 
I think, he is still the best chaser among cricketers right now. It's all relative thing. Who you guys will name as the best chasers currently?

Yah, he may struggle on some surfaces. But over all, let's hear some names, we can put over Kohli in pressure situations in big chase. He has already played some great chasing knocks which many great player don't play in their entire career.
 
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2 failures and trolls from Pakistan come out of their holes.

2 centuries and Pakistani trolls go back in and Indian trolls will come out.

This game always amuses me.
 
Yet another fifty in a pressure run chase.

A Kohli century almost looks inevitable during run chases now!
 
Kohli has scored 11 odi centuries while chasing and all 11 times team has won the game. It could be his 12th today. What a player he just thrives while chasing and takes the pressure well. Love watching him bat.
 
Lol how can u say that since he hasn't played long enough

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mr-k said:
Lol how can u say that since he hasn't played long enough

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Because he has already done better than some ODI greats who have played much longer than him (as far as playing big innings in run chases is concerned)

He has at least 10 more years left in his ODI career.
 
Re: Is Kohli the greatest ODI run chaser in history?

Scrolln said:
Because he has already done better than some ODI greats who have played much longer than him (as far as playing big innings in run chases is concerned)

He has at least 10 more years left in his ODI career.
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It's long way to go and he must prove outside India.

No doubt he is very good but it's to early

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mr-k said:
Lol how can u say that since he hasn't played long enough

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But Kohli already is second on the all time list of 100s scored while chasing, next only to Tendulkar who has 17.
 
IndianWillow said:
But Kohli already is second on the all time list of 100s scored while chasing, next only to Tendulkar who has 17.
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Tendulkar scored 17 in 20 odd years.

Kohli now has 12 in just 6 years.

Only the sky is the limit for Kohli as far as ODIs are concerned!
 
Re: Is Kohli the greatest ODI run chaser in history?

IndianWillow said:
But Kohli already is second on the all time list of 100s scored while chasing, next only to Tendulkar who has 17.
Click to expand...

How many match India won when sachin made 100.

I am just saying it's to early

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mr-k said:
How many match India won when sachin made 100.

I am just saying it's to early

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14 out of 17 times, India has won.

These are the three times India lost, and that too because he had negligible support from the other batsmen -

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/65773.html

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/current/match/416240.html

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64882.html

Its a bit unfair to compare across eras and i would rate Ponting comfortably ahead of Kohli as a number 3 ODI batsman till Kohli ups his game in tournament finals and World Cups. He has a poor record in both.

I woudn't be too bothered about overseas records because i feel the pitches are batsman friendly in ODI's all over the world.
 
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Scrolln said:
Tendulkar scored 17 in 20 odd years.

Kohli now has 12 in just 6 years.

Only the sky is the limit for Kohli as far as ODIs are concerned!
Click to expand...

Yeah, but extrapolation is a risky thing to do in cricket. There are so many ifs and buts, and if every thing goes his way Kohli will go well past Tendu in ODIs.
 
I have different view.... So I am not agree

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mr-k said:
How many match India won when sachin made 100.

I am just saying it's to early

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Click to expand...

Most of them. That is how ODIs are meant to be, it is a batsman's game.
 
Scrolln said:
Its a bit unfair to compare across eras and i would rate Ponting comfortably ahead of Kohli as a number 3 ODI batsman till Kohli ups his game in tournament finals and World Cups. He has a poor record in both.

.
Click to expand...

It took Ponting 6 tries in a world cup final to finally score in one. And that was while batting first, coming in at 110 for 1 in 10 overs where Gilchrist and Hayden had completely demoralized Indian bowlers
 
Indiafan said:
It took Ponting 6 tries in a world cup final to finally score in one. And that was while batting first, coming in at 110 for 1 in 10 overs where Gilchrist and Hayden had completely demoralized Indian bowlers
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I'm not taking only about WC finals, but finals across tri series/bi laterals etc. all over the world too.

For example, Kohli has a superb record against Sri Lanka. Yet he averages 21 in the six games he has faced them during tournament finals. And in WC's Kohli hasn't done anything of note apart from a ton against Bangladesh when Sehwag had already made mince meat of the bowling attack.

Tornament Finals/WC's carry the utmost weightage for me when i rate an ODI batsman. That is also the reason why Viv/Sachin/Abbas/Ponting are rated as the greatest ODI batsmen ever. They have a tremendous record in both.
 
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Mobashir must be disappointed :91:

To be fair, Bullet Drive has a big heart for young cricketers across all teams :afridi
 
Re: Is Kohli the greatest ODI run chaser in history?

Baven was the best chaser of his era, but is now overrated by those who consider him the best ever.

What was the typical score he used to chase? 250. What was his scoring rate? Like 40 off 53. Compare that to the chases where Kohli had to chase at over 8 per over.

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fatichar said:
Baven was the best chaser of his era, but is now overrated by those who consider him the best ever.

What was the typical score he used to chase? 250. What was his scoring rate? Like 40 off 53. Compare that to the chases where Kohli had to chase at over 8 per over.

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There is a world of difference in the bowling attacks faced by both.

Comparing across eras is very difficult.
 
Easily the best chaser I've seen, I just don't see any weaknesses in his technique.
 
On a serious note,i cant wait to see him vs johnson in aus.
Yes he is the best hooker/puller in the team,but him against johnson at the gabba will be a sight.
He will be thoroughly tested!
 
Aman said:
He can leave those alone :))
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He is a guy who goes for his cover drives,if the bowler can get appreciable movement he always has a chance,but basically that rule applies to every other batsman as well.
Right now no real weakness in his technique.
 
Re: Is Kohli the greatest ODI run chaser in history?

Scrolln said:
There is a world of difference in the bowling attacks faced by both.

Comparing across eras is very difficult.
Click to expand...

For example?

Remember that Bevan never had to face the great Australian attack.

Among other great attacks of his time were Pak and SA. I don't know how well did he do against them.
But Kohli has done very well against Malinga, Ajmal, Dale, Johnson etc.

Kohli has

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I think he proved he's legit on the sa tour... from here on it's just matter of staying fit and staying in form.
 
Scrolln said:
There is a world of difference in the bowling attacks faced by both.

Comparing across eras is very difficult.
Click to expand...

Yeh spot on. Can't compare across eras. But don't fall into the 'Old is gold' trap. He, like everyone else, faced some excellent bowlers, some decent and some rubbish.
 
Is Kohli the greatest ODI run chaser in history?

battler said:
On a serious note,i cant wait to see him vs johnson in aus.
Yes he is the best hooker/puller in the team,but him against johnson at the gabba will be a sight.
He will be thoroughly tested!
Click to expand...


I've got a feeling in LOIS he will get the better of Johnson with his aggressive mindset, Johnson bowled superbly in the Ashes but that's because the England batsmen were all too scared and just let him bowl Virat won't be bullied by Johnson and we all know what happens to Mitch when a batsman takes him to the cleaners :ishant
 
At least after today's NZ performance.... Posters here must accept that he :kohli is better player than Umar akmal :umarakmal ..

Be Honest please
 
cricketjoshila said:
1.

Kohli bats at no.3

Bevan batted at no.6

Who has more chances of facing the new ball?

2.Kohli has batted less innings than Bevan as batsman chasing and avgs 9 points more with a SR of 90.

3.Bevan's SR of 67 while chasing wont even get him into a team these days.

This thread is not about who is the best finisher.The best finisher comes at no.6 and is Kohli's captain.

This is about the best chaser,the one who sets up the game for the finisher to finish.
Click to expand...

I don't think it is fair at all to compare strike-rates for batsmen between the two eras.

Back when Bevan played they used bats half the size with boundaries being atleast 25% bigger. Not to mention they only used one ball (now its 1 from each end) so the ball would get old by the time Bevan was in and thus did not travel as far.

That said - I am from Australia and I rate Virat extremely highly and am envious that he was not born Australian - a future great of the game.
 
Haripotter said:
At least after today's NZ performance.... Posters here must accept that he :kohli is better player than Umar akmal :umarakmal ..

Be Honest please
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Don't think anyone compares him to Umar Akmal now, even Umar Akmal himself would say kohli is the best young batsman in recent times. However... the case for ATG is up for debate as the rules for cricket have changed significantly in batsmen favor and there aren't that many bowlers who can be compared to the 90s era bowlers.
 
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