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[PICTURES] Is Virat Kohli the greatest ODI run chaser in history?

Hasan123 said:
Amla is still better than Kohli for one poster.

Apparently he's never going to catch up with him as well.
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Kohli is simply a better limited overs batsman than Amla. Amla is much better than Kohli in the test format. That's the current situation. Having said that KOhli has a much longer career ahead of him.
 
Chief Destroyer said:
By outside India I mean overseas in alien conditions. When he does that, he can claim this title.
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Well, who do you think has the title now and let's put that person under the same benchmark. Then we can see how far Kohli has to go to claim the title from that person. I personally don't rate kohli that high over all, but he seems to really up his game when chasing.
 
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Buffet said:
Kohli is simply a better limited overs batsman than Amla. Amla is much better than Kohli in the test format. That's the current situation. Having said that KOhli has a much longer career ahead of him.
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Looool he will surpass Amla in tests as well. All he needs is a good series in England and score big at home. He's scored runs everywhere else in tests.
 
Hasan123 said:
Looool he will surpass Amla in tests as well. All he needs is a good series in England and score big at home. He's scored runs everywhere else in tests.
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Given, how pitches are now in India, he is not likely to score big runs at home. He should score in Eng in next few series. PPers are too harsh on him. Most batsmen fail in some venue in their first go. Some keep failing till they retire, so let's see how he does.

If he can surpass Amla in the test format then he will go down as the 2nd or 3rd best batsman from Asia and one of the ATG batsman.
 
Yea we say what he did in the semifinals of the WC. He is not greatest of chaser as of now.
 
Chief Destroyer said:
Successful chase with him leading the way, not averages.
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Well that stat is the same for everyone win or loss .... anyhow here is the stat for wins only outside Asia

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...1=runs;result=1;template=results;type=batting

Kohli avgs 70 with a SR of almost 90 ... thats quite remarkable stat.

And just to round off here is the stat for performances in matches lost : http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...1=runs;result=2;template=results;type=batting

Again far better than Bevan even in that aspect.
 
Buffet said:
Given, how pitches are now in India, he is not likely to score big runs at home. He should score in Eng in next few series. PPers are too harsh on him. Most batsmen fail in some venue in their first go. Some keep failing till they retire, so let's see how he does.

If he can surpass Amla in the test format then he will go down as the 2nd or 3rd best batsman from Asia and one of the ATG batsman.
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Pitches in India won't always be rank turners he will find ways of scoring imo. The way he works on his game is amazing.

He will do much better in England than his 1st series. His technique is much tighter. He can't perform any worse though. Should average 40 plus in his next series in England.
 
Tusker said:
Well that stat is the same for everyone win or loss .... anyhow here is the stat for wins only outside Asia

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...1=runs;result=1;template=results;type=batting

Kohli avgs 70 with a SR of almost 90 ... thats quite remarkable stat.

And just to round off here is the stat for performances in matches lost : http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...1=runs;result=2;template=results;type=batting

Again far better than Bevan even in that aspect.
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Wow, amazing.
 
Scrolln said:
Virat Kohli now has 11 tons in ODI chases only behind SRT (who has 17)

Kohli is now ahead of Ponting (8 tons), Lara (9 tons) , Anwar (10 tons), Gilchrist (8 tons), Gayle (11 tons) , Jayasuriya (10 tons), Inzamam (4 tons)

Mindboggling! He is just 25, how many more to go?? :kohli

Is he the greatest ODI run chaser in history?
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Almost 3 years later he has 16 ODI Hundreds while chasing ... just outstanding :

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...0;qualval2=runs;template=results;type=batting

In those last three years :

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...3;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting


But really he is an Outstanding batsman ... and it is really a treat to watch him chase in a ODI or T20 ... the way he finds gaps with pin point accuracy -- like he has a laser guided precision mechanism assisting him -- is just very very very good. His running between the wickets is just phenomenal. A lot of people just watch him bat to see how he converts 1s into 2s and runs the opposition sides ragged even the good fielding sides like Aus and SA.
 
Chief Destroyer said:
Vivian Richards.
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Let's look at his record in chase then.

  • Viv did verry good in Aus and Eng.
  • Viv was poor in chase at home. He averages in 20s while batting second in WI. Even in successful chases his average is in mid 20s in WI.
  • Viv has crossed 50+ only 7 times in successful & unsuccessful chase when playing everywhere except Aus & Eng. Used 50+ rather than ton to account for era and WI bowling line up.

We can safely say that Viv was brilliant in chase in Aus and Eng, but that's about it. This is not a criticism of Viv, but I am using the same benchmark for performances in all venues which we are using for Kohli.
 
Chief Destroyer said:
Vivian Richards.
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Rotoman said:
Viv Richards is a lot of things but a better chaser than Kohli he is not.
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exactly!! here is Viv vs Kohli batting 2nd in matches Won

Code: 
Kohli 59 3514 14 15 90.10 97.25
IVAR  58 2203 03 15 57.97 89.69

Better Avg , S/R and More 100s and runs and as a coincidence both have almost same no.of inngs ... ( Just one extra for Kohli )

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...1=runs;result=1;template=results;type=batting


PS: Look at MSD's Avg ... :O
 
I will comfortably rate Viv ahead as ODI batsman. I will rate few more batsmen ahead of Kohli without much issue, but I am not convinced that Viv was ahead of Kohli in chase if we are using across venue criterion.
 
Buffet said:
I will comfortably rate Viv ahead as ODI batsman. I will rate few more batsmen ahead of Kohli without much issue, but I am not convinced that Viv was ahead of Kohli in chase if we are using across venue criterion.
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IMO Virat Kohli Comforatbly ahead of IVAR given the Bowling+Fielding quality , staggering record in run chases (See my prev post) and quality of batsmanship. What he lacks is WC performances. Although he has that 100 against Pak in a WC match which is pretty huge tick.
 
Buffet said:
Let's look at his record in chase then.

  • Viv did verry good in Aus and Eng.
  • Viv was poor in chase at home. He averages in 20s while batting second in WI. Even in successful chases his average is in mid 20s in WI.
  • Viv has crossed 50+ only 7 times in successful & unsuccessful chase when playing everywhere except Aus & Eng. Used 50+ rather than ton to account for era and WI bowling line up.

We can safely say that Viv was brilliant in chase in Aus and Eng, but that's about it. This is not a criticism of Viv, but I am using the same benchmark for performances in all venues which we are using for Kohli.
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It's pointless comparing ODI stats across eras. Many of those 50+ scores would be worth 100+ today. The point here is that Viv has tons and 70+ scores in successful chases away from home which is why I rate him above. I simplified that if Kohli can score in successful chase in alien conditions, he'd either claim the title or be in the same league depending on the knocks and volume of runs.
 
Definitely a beast while chasing. Give Kohli a target and he will chase it down.
 
Brilliant from Kohli once again in his comfort zone while chasing.

Superb knock and won the game with an out-and-out standout performance.

All set to be the greatest chaser in odis of all time.
 
Chief Destroyer said:
It's pointless comparing ODI stats across eras. Many of those 50+ scores would be worth 100+ today. The point here is that Viv has tons and 70+ scores in successful chases away from home which is why I rate him above. I simplified that if Kohli can score in successful chase in alien conditions, he'd either claim the title or be in the same league depending on the knocks and volume of runs.
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That's why I pointed out 50+ score for Viv. He was gun in Aus/Eng and not that gun outside of those two venues.
 
looks like he's one of those players who excel in chasing targets. Good find by india

but still I don't rate him above the likes of Viv, Inzi, Sachin, Ponting, Clarke
 
The King of Kings said:
looks like he's one of those players who excel in chasing targets. Good find by india

but still I don't rate him above the likes of Viv, Inzi, Sachin, Ponting, Clarke
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Clarke? What has Clarke done in ODIs? Kohli is above Inzamam as well but needs to do more to overcome the other three.
 
Easily, and is one dominant World Cup away from ending up as the greatest ODI batsman of all time.
 
Buffet said:
That's why I pointed out 50+ score for Viv. He was gun in Aus/Eng and not that gun outside of those two venues.
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Two 80+ scores in Pakistan, ton in India in successful chases. Didn't play much in NZ. Remarkable record considering how far spread series were during his era. He didn't let any opportunity go.

In comparison, despite playing similar number of matches, Kohli does not even have one 80+ in a successful chase away from the SC(excluding WI and Zim). It's difficult for me to rate a player like that as 'the greatest chaser ever.'
 
Still comparing sachin's and virat's records quite astounding really how sachin managed to have such a good strike rate in those times. Way ahead of his times that guy. Like Viv.
 
Chief Destroyer said:
Two 80+ scores in Pakistan, ton in India in successful chases. Didn't play much in NZ. Remarkable record considering how far spread series were during his era. He didn't let any opportunity go.

In comparison, despite playing similar number of matches, Kohli does not even have one 80+ in a successful chase away from the SC(excluding WI and Zim). It's difficult for me to rate a player like that as 'the greatest chaser ever.'
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Although they are only 15 won matches while chasing but he averages almost 80 in England, Australia, South Africa and New Zealand

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/253802.html?batting_fielding_first=2;class=2;filter=advanced;host=1;host=2;host=3;host=5;orderby=default;result=1;template=results;type=batting

He's bound to get better and will continue to improve.
 
Chief Destroyer said:
Two 80+ scores in Pakistan, ton in India in successful chases. Didn't play much in NZ. Remarkable record considering how far spread series were during his era. He didn't let any opportunity go.

In comparison, despite playing similar number of matches, Kohli does not even have one 80+ in a successful chase away from the SC(excluding WI and Zim). It's difficult for me to rate a player like that as 'the greatest chaser ever.'
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Not a true statement.

79* in Johanseburg
81 in port of Spain
77 in Perth
133* in Hobart

So he has quite a few good knocks in a successful chase away from the SC(excluding WI and Zim).

What he doesn't have is big knocks in away chase against host country. I think that's what you meant.
 
Buffet said:
Let's look at his record in chase then.

  • Viv did verry good in Aus and Eng.
  • Viv was poor in chase at home. He averages in 20s while batting second in WI. Even in successful chases his average is in mid 20s in WI.
  • Viv has crossed 50+ only 7 times in successful & unsuccessful chase when playing everywhere except Aus & Eng. Used 50+ rather than ton to account for era and WI bowling line up.

We can safely say that Viv was brilliant in chase in Aus and Eng, but that's about it. This is not a criticism of Viv, but I am using the same benchmark for performances in all venues which we are using for Kohli.
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I looked up.

In chasing general, Viv averages 44 with 86 SR.

In WI, he averages just 27 at 89 SR.

In India, he averages 52 at 97 SR
In Aus, averages 39.97 at 79.80 SR
In Eng, averages 87 with 85 SR
In Pakistan, averages 49 with 101 SR.
In UAE, averages 40 with 109 SR.

In won chases, he made 50 like 15 times and 100 3 times.

So total of 18 times, he crossed 50.

All came everywhere except once in WI where he just scored one match winning 50. He sucked in WI so that's a flaw in his career but apart from that its flawless.

55% of his innings chasing came in Aus and Eng. 13 of his 50 plus scores came here. 72% of his scores.

In Pakistan, he scored 50+ in successful chase in 2 out of 6 innings.
In India, he scored 100+ in successful chase in 1 out of 6 innings (scored 42 RUNS per innings in successful chases..averages 85 in successful chases)
In UAE, he scored 50+ in successful chase 1 out of 3 innings
In NZ, he batted only once in successful chase and scored 14*.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...efault;result=1;template=results;type=batting

Only WI is a flaw.

His chasing record in every other country is flawless.

I do think Kohli is a greater chaser (possibly the greatest ever) but its a fair claim to make that if he wants to be undisputed with not even a question raised, he needs a bit more magic away from Asia.
 
Buffet said:
Not a true statement.

79* in Johanseburg
81 in port of Spain
77 in Perth
133* in Hobart

So he has quite a few good knocks in a successful chase away from the SC(excluding WI and Zim).

What he doesn't have is big knocks in away chase against host country. I think that's what you meant.
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Fairly obvious.
 
I dont know y some guys have an obsession with alien or foreign conditions. A cricketer will play almost 75% of his matches in similar to home conditions and the remaining 25% in those alien conditions. Yet, we easily ignore the known conditions and label someone a HTB as if every other person is scoring centuries at will in his home. Yes, overseas conditions does show brilliance but ridiculing and demeaning achievements due to non performance in a particular country doesnt make one a lesser player. Ponting was aweful in India yet he is labelled one of the greatest in his era, but be it an asian player like Younis or Kohli, we tend to show our great observations how he failed at a particular moment when XYZ scored.

Coming to the thread, for me Dhoni was the greatest ever limited over batsman. I think Virat Kohli is soon going to take that mantle, if he hasn't already.
 
I think more than home or away....

Kohli needs to do it in a WC to cement his spot as the undisputed king. His 2 WC failures annoy me to no end (not talking about averages). He is WAYYYY better than that.

No one will care if he leads India to a WC in SC playing a magical chase innings at home.

Of course, Kohli is going to play his next WC in Eng but making a point.

He needs to do it in a high stakes game.

There is no batsman who can setup, guide and finish a chase like Kohli.
 
Faisalsq092 said:
I dont know y some guys have an obsession with alien or foreign conditions. A cricketer will play almost 75% of his matches in similar to home conditions and the remaining 25% in those alien conditions. Yet, we easily ignore the known conditions and label someone a HTB as if every other person is scoring centuries at will in his home. Yes, overseas conditions does show brilliance but ridiculing and demeaning achievements due to non performance in a particular country doesnt make one a lesser player. Ponting was aweful in India yet he is labelled one of the greatest in his era, but be it an asian player like Younis or Kohli, we tend to show our great observations how he failed at a particular moment when XYZ scored.

Coming to the thread, for me Dhoni was the greatest ever limited over batsman. I think Virat Kohli is soon going to take that mantle, if he hasn't already.
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Pretty much this !!. Alas Ghar ki murgi will always taste like daal for most Desi's
 
Chief Destroyer said:
Two 80+ scores in Pakistan, ton in India in successful chases. Didn't play much in NZ. Remarkable record considering how far spread series were during his era. He didn't let any opportunity go.

In comparison, despite playing similar number of matches, Kohli does not even have one 80+ in a successful chase away from the SC(excluding WI and Zim). It's difficult for me to rate a player like that as 'the greatest chaser ever.'
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What does that have to do with his chasing ability? A player with 0 wins fielding first can be the greatest chaser in history if he does well himself. Kohli has a century chasing in Australia, a century and 2 fifties in NZ and 2 fifties in SA.
 
Kohli is one of the greatest chasers , but if he can win a WC or a Big tournament and win it , he will arguably be the best possibly.
 
Buffet said:
Let's look at his record in chase then.

  • Viv did verry good in Aus and Eng.
  • Viv was poor in chase at home. He averages in 20s while batting second in WI. Even in successful chases his average is in mid 20s in WI.
  • Viv has crossed 50+ only 7 times in successful & unsuccessful chase when playing everywhere except Aus & Eng. Used 50+ rather than ton to account for era and WI bowling line up.

We can safely say that Viv was brilliant in chase in Aus and Eng, but that's about it. This is not a criticism of Viv, but I am using the same benchmark for performances in all venues which we are using for Kohli.
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The Aussie team that Viv faced during the 80s was significantly weaker than the current ERA Aussie team ... and plenty of easy chases for WI back then due to their comparatively better bowling than the rest. Not an apples to apples comparison.
 
Other than Dhoni i can't think of any competition for Kohli in this department

all he needs is to dominate WC and he will go down as no 1 ever
 
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This guy is just something else in LOIs. Unreal.
 
He's been the greatest ODI chaser for a long time IMO.

Just adding to it now.
 
GOAT chaser for sure. No one has pulled off the kind of run chases this guy has with such regularity.

If he has a great WC in 2019 and wins it for India, I will rank him alongside Viv. That's how good he is.
 
Chief Destroyer said:
Fairly obvious.
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Big knocks in way matches against host country ? are you sure thats enough ?

What he needs is a ,

Big Knock in way matches against host country in a WC final , off course he has to do this in SA or Aus , when the pitch is certified as green and against ATG bowlers in a big ground and when there is no dew .
 
Kohli is the 2nd greatest ODI bat just behind Viv. He is just one World Cup final performance away to surpass Richards.

In T20s he is already GOAT.

I tests, he won't find a place in even all time Indian XI.
 
Most of tendulkers 100s were in losing causes, many times the loss was due to the 100 as well, best chaser has to be Bevan.
 
The_Odd_One said:
Kohli is the 2nd greatest ODI bat just behind Viv. He is just one World Cup final performance away to surpass Richards.

In T20s he is already GOAT.

<b>I tests, he won't find a place in even all time Indian XI.</b>
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Two double centuries in the last six weeks, give him a bit of time and he will get there.
 
What's this discussion?

So many pages?

It's a simple fact that he is. Why is anyone doubting it?
 
Sachin136 said:
He doesn't have any centuries in succesful chases against the host team in countries outside Asia.
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So what.

Sachin didn't have a single century in that scenario, let alone a winning one.

At least for the most part of his career and at his peak.
 
Hawkeye said:
So what.

Sachin didn't have a single century in that scenario, let alone a winning one.

At least for the most part of his career and at his peak.
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I was being sarcastic.

Whether the match was won or not has nothing to do with the quality of the innings. However, since you mentioned it, Sachin made 117* in Sydney against Australia winning the match for India.
 
Sachin136 said:
I was being sarcastic.

Whether the match was won or not has nothing to do with the quality of the innings. However, since you mentioned it, Sachin made 117* in Sydney against Australia winning the match for India.
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When? Year.
 
Should be disappointed with himself if he doesn't end up GOAT in ODIs by the end of his career.
 
People going a little overboard. He does only have one century chasing, outside Asia and West Indies, and that came against his favorite team, Sri Lanka.

Doesn't have a great chase in World Cup matches either. He is a beast in Asia though.
 
Bilal7 said:
People going a little overboard. He does only have one century chasing, outside Asia and West Indies, and that came against his favorite team, Sri Lanka.

Doesn't have a great chase in World Cup matches either. He is a beast in Asia though.
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He has three centuries chasing outside Asia and West Indies. 2 in Australia and 1 in New Zealand.
 
Many are saying Viv Richards was the best chaser ever. But then same people are saying players cannot be compared across eras.
These two statements are conflicting. Taking both statements into account Viv was the best chaser of only his era.
 
Since the goalposts keep moving, let me define it for the critics.

If you ignore chases in 60% of the test playing nations, and
if you ignore chases in the other 40% against non-home nations, and
if you ignore chases in losing causes;
Kohli is yet to score a century.

I am sure Kohli will resolve this massive blemish on his ODI career soon enough.
 
Napa said:
Two double centuries in the last six weeks, give him a bit of time and he will get there.
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And failed in the rest of the innings. Kohli has not played impactful innings like Sehwag, Sachin, Dravid, Laxman, and Rahane.
 
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