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[PICTURES/VIDEOS] Jasprit Bumrah is the best fast-bowler in the world right now

mominsaigol said:
Bumrah is not > Mcgrath due to 2 reasons.

A) Poor NZ record.

B) Choking mentality specifically ct 2017, wc 2023 and wc 2019 where it would have been in India's best interest to eliminate England as they were the strongest team. Bringing pk into the semi's is more beneficial as 2019 india would have had zero issues in dispatching them.
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Why do u put Akram ahead of Bumrah ? Does he have a spotless record like Mcgrath ?
 
Devadwal said:
Ok so my next question if Bumrah can retire from test cricket now than how you rate him.

He has already achieved ( 200@19.43) what had don Bradman achieved ( 7000 runs@99)

:kp
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My last reply on this topic as this discussion is getting more stupid and I don't have as much time as you to type here.

Bradman is in his own class, no-one even close. So that case is closed.

Bumrah is not in his own class, even after 200 wickets. Waqar Younis, for instance, was averaging 20,60 after getting 200 wickets. Waqar even took 200 wickets in only 38 matches whereas Bumrah needed 44 matches to this. Waqar also had better SR. So your argument is dead already here. Not taking anything away from Bumrah. He is a class bowler, but since you have started this nitpicking I also had to get down to your level.

But what I am more interested to see is where Bumrah will stand after another 40-50 Test matches (if he ever plays). Time will tell and If I am alive then I will also commentate on that.
 
RexRex said:
Why do u put Akram ahead of Bumrah ? Does he have a spotless record like Mcgrath ?
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Akram is ahead for now due to longetivity, an world cup victory + more wickets at a steady economy.

Bumrah needs to achieve said metrics. Bumrah has his 2024 moment yes but it's t20 and not as impressive as what wasim achieved in 1992.

Atm unless you're Indian and biased, no sane person would put bumrah in an 11 over wasim especially factoring in the fact that wasim can bat a bit as well.
 
IAJ said:
My last reply on this topic as this discussion is getting more stupid and I don't have as much time as you to type here.

Bradman is in his own class, no-one even close. So that case is closed.

Bumrah is not in his own class, even after 200 wickets. Waqar Younis, for instance, was averaging 20,60 after getting 200 wickets. Waqar even took 200 wickets in only 38 matches whereas Bumrah needed 44 matches to this. Waqar also had better SR. So your argument is dead already here. Not taking anything away from Bumrah. He is a class bowler, but since you have started this nitpicking I also had to get down to your level.

But what I am more interested to see is where Bumrah will stand after another 40-50 Test matches (if he ever plays). Time will tell and If I am alive then I will also commentate on that.
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Ignore that poster. He doesn't have any knowledge about cricket anyway. He along with one or 2 others just create hate threads and start crying when certain metrics don't go their way.

I've never seen a grown man cry this much over a snicko.
 
Devadwal said:
Ok so my next question if Bumrah can retire from test cricket now than how you rate him.

He has already achieved ( 200@19.43) what had don Bradman achieved ( 7000 runs@99)

:kp
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If he retired now would he be one of the GOATs in your eyes?

In my opinion he isn't yet - he is on the pathway for sure and will almost certainly end up a GOAT unless something drastic happens.

I'm reluctant to put him in that category because a lot can still happen in his career. Let's see when it ends. He could average 50 for the next phase of his career, or an injury could reduce his pace. God willing it doesn't happen but in my opinion we should only judge when his chapter is fully closed or he plays like this for 1 or two more years.
 
It's actually Indians who bring in the longevity point about :sachin but now run away from their own arguments.

It is a fact that the ONLY thing that separates :sachin from his peers is his longevity.

You guys made him a god for this reason, not us.
 
RexRex said:
You said Bumrah has a weak NZ record. Does Akram have a weak record against any team ?
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In test cricket? He doesn't? He doesn't avg 45 against any team? Which team does he even avg 40+ against in test?

His weakest record is vs England where he avg 30 against them?
 
IAJ said:
My last reply on this topic as this discussion is getting more stupid and I don't have as much time as you to type here.

Bradman is in his own class, no-one even close. So that case is closed.

Bumrah is not in his own class, even after 200 wickets. Waqar Younis, for instance, was averaging 20,60 after getting 200 wickets. Waqar even took 200 wickets in only 38 matches whereas Bumrah needed 44 matches to this. Waqar also had better SR. So your argument is dead already here. Not taking anything away from Bumrah. He is a class bowler, but since you have started this nitpicking I also had to get down to your level.

But what I am more interested to see is where Bumrah will stand after another 40-50 Test matches (if he ever plays). Time will tell and If I am alive then I will also commentate on that.
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Read post #2304 Which show Bumrah is in his own class. He has performed in every condition cross the globe unlike don Bradman.

All the matrix has pass by him .

:kp
 
Devadwal said:
Sachin>>>>> any others batsman

Bumrah>>>> Any other bowlers

I know some people won't digest this facts but who care about those cry babies .

:kp
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You're literally the only one who cries though? Imagine being on a pakistani forumn where you bash other people's opinions followed by creating hate threads 24/7?

I challenge any poster to give me someone who isn't as immature as you? Literally no one comes close to you with the exception of that rizwanthet20champ troll lol.
 
IAJ said:
If you had you read post no. 2307, you wouldn't need to type this as it has already backfired lol. The guy who mentioned 400 wickets for Bumrah also appreciated SRT longevity.
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No, it hasn’t backfired just because you changed your tune today. Every poster in this forum knows how desperate Pakistani fans were in trying to downgrade Tendulkar and how falsely they put their narrative of longevity against him. Post No. 2327 by @DeadlyVenom proves my point again that it is a general belief by Pakistani fans but only when talking about Tendulkar. They completely flip this believe as soon as you flip the discussion to Bumrah. :inti
 
Ab Fan said:
No, it hasn’t backfired just because you changed your tune today. Every poster in this forum knows how desperate Pakistani fans were in trying to downgrade Tendulkar and how falsely they put their narrative of longevity against him. Post No. 2327 by @DeadlyVenom proves my point again that it is a general belief by Pakistani fans but only when talking about Tendulkar. They completely flip this believe as soon as you flip the discussion to Bumrah. :inti
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Yes, it has backfired because you clearly were referring to my spesific comment on 400 wickets while making a general accusation for all pakistani fans. I appreciated SRT's longevity and I also asked to wait for Bumrahs career to end before giving any final judgement, so I have been consistent on this topic.
 
Ab Fan said:
No, it hasn’t backfired just because you changed your tune today. Every poster in this forum knows how desperate Pakistani fans were in trying to downgrade Tendulkar and how falsely they put their narrative of longevity against him. Post No. 2327 by @DeadlyVenom proves my point again that it is a general belief by Pakistani fans but only when talking about Tendulkar. They completely flip this believe as soon as you flip the discussion to Bumrah. :inti
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He isn't change the tone at his own but Bumrah performance forced him to change the tone

Everyone fall in line once bumrah cross the 300 wickets in next two year.

India is going to play 10 test in 2025. One Against australia ( A) ,5 against England ( A) , two vs South Africa and Westindies at home .

So he is likely to take another 45-50 wickets .
:kp
 
Devadwal said:
He isn't change the tone at his own but Bumrah performance forced him to change the tone

Everyone fall in line once bumrah cross the 300 wickets in next two year.

India is going to play 10 test in 2025. One Against australia ( A) ,5 against England ( A) , two vs South Africa and Westindies at home .

So he is likely to take another 45-50 wickets .
:kp
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He will likely rest vs Windies.
 
Ab Fan said:
He will likely rest vs Windies.
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I think he is going to be next test captain so likely to play every test but can rest from meaningless ODI and T20 series .

He should Only Play test cricket and important ICC tournaments .

He is our national treasure so take care him at all cost.

All the PR about Virat and Rohit Sharma but he should be role model for upcoming indian youngsters .

:kp
 
RexRex said:
30 is very poor.
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30 is Wasim's worst avg against a certain team.

45 is Bumrah’s worst avg against a certain team.

Which is worse?

It's utter madness to put Bumrah > Wasim when wasim has established 2 decades of dominance followed by more wickets then bumrah can fathom atm.

Not to mention Wasim could bowl 25 overs straight while bumrah taps out.

You Indians use longetivity as the ultimate metric for sachin yet it all goes out the window for bumrah?

Bumrah has to catch up + Win an odi event + improve his NZ avg which is 45 atm.

He's way way behind wasim atm.

Nz avg + Ct 2017 + wc 2019(england) + wc 2023 final choke.

^^ Gotta fix this filters.
 
mominsaigol said:
30 is Wasim's worst avg against a certain team.

45 is Bumrah’s worst avg against a certain team.

Which is worse?
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That's a silly stat game. I could flip that around and say Bumrah's best average is far batter than Akram's best average.

In any case, a veteran pundit like David Lloyd put Bumrah ahead of Mcgrath in a world XI. The longevity argument doesn't matter to him. It doesn't matter to me either.
 
RexRex said:
That's a silly stat game. I could flip that around and say Bumrah's best average is far batter than Akram's best average.

In any case, a veteran pundit like David Lloyd put Bumrah ahead of Mcgrath in a world XI. The longevity argument doesn't matter to him. It doesn't matter to me either.
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No one cares what this and that thinks. Anil kumble claimed rizwan was top 3 batters on the planet in the world cup only to get butchered left and right and have every batter perform better then him.

Formulate your opinion and actually debate properly, I'm in no mood to spam wisden's.

Anyway here's are the stats so far since you've shifted the argument towards Mcgrath for some reason

A) Mcgrath's best numbers and worst numbers in test cricket against a certain team is 14 and 18, 18 which was achieved against India which featured sachin, Dravid etc etc aka all batters who are significantly > any test batter of this era. Root is the best atm. Steve smith is comparable but not current smith, Smith from 2014-2020 only.

Bumrah's best numbers are against aus avg 17 however Bumrah hasn't dealt with hayden, Pointing, Gilly etc, The toughest batter he has dealt with is travis head. Mcsweeney, Khawaja etc etc aren't comparable.

B) Bumrah's worst avg against a certain team is 45, which is a huge huge red flag on this career atm, Compared to any great who doesn't avg that high against any team including mcgrath who's worst avg is 27 vs sa but this factors in the likes of Kallis who is once again > Any test batter of this era.

C) Mcgrath has 563 test wickets at an avg of 21 compared to Bumrah who atm is at 203 with an avg of 19. Not only does Bumrah has a long long long long way to catch up, he also has to maintain that avg which is next to impossible given his age. That avg will go up as soon as Bumrah fizzles out in a couple of years.

D) Coupled with the fact that Mcgrath has 3 10 wicket hauls in test cricket and bumrah has 0 atm.

D) In odi Mcgrath has won 3 cups for his country where he was the best and most economical bowler in every cup that aus played followed by the fact that he retired with 381 wickets an an avg of 22 + iconic figures of 4/8 vs india which included God sachin in one of those events, and best bowling figures of 7/15, Bumrah on the other hand has an avg of 23, 6/19 is his best, followed by 149 wickets only, 0 title wins in odi, which includes 3 chokes against pakistan, England and Australia.

^^ Based of all this, from which angle is Bumrah superior to Mcgrath in? What metric are you using?

Bumrah is only superior in 2 metrics atm,

A better test avg, which will go up as he ages and loses his effectiveness over time, Something all bowlers except Mcgrath did.

And slightly better numbers against Australia but this includes numbers against a much much weaker batting lineup then the one mcgrath bowled to vs india.

And if you wish to be more nitpicky, technically Mcgrath's best numbers are avg 14 in test.

So Bumrah is only superior in test avg with a red mark of 45 avg vs NZ?

But sure let's ignore all this because some moron said he'd pick bumrah over mcgrath and that longetivity doesn't matter yet it is applicable towards sachin for some reason.
 
mominsaigol said:
But sure let's ignore all this because some moron said he'd pick bumrah over mcgrath and that longetivity doesn't matter yet it is applicable towards sachin for some reason.
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Bumble isn't a moron ..... he is a veteran Eng international player, umpire and broadcaster. His opinion is valued by the majority on PP.
 
RexRex said:
Bumble isn't a moron ..... he is a veteran Eng international player, umpire and broadcaster. His opinion is valued by a majority on PP.
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Address what I wrote above. Form your own opinion and address what I said.

This is the biggest fallacy in debating. It's called arguing from authority.

A celebrity or ex player isn't in a position to automatically debunk everything.

If you wish to debunk me, then address the points I've made above. But if you wish to run away and hide behind others, I totally understand.
 
mominsaigol said:
Address what I wrote above. Form your own opinion and address what I said.

This is the biggest fallacy in debating. It's called arguing from authority.

A celebrity or ex player isn't in a position to automatically debunk everything.

If you wish to debunk me, then address the points I've made above. But if you wish to run away and hide behind others, I totally understand.
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I'm not too fussed about you rating Mcgrath above Bumrah, the former was a champion bowler. My argument was against Akram. I brought in the Mcgrath-Bumble equation just to make the point that needless longevity isn't valued by the experts. Bumrah has been around for 8-9 years now which is enough.
 
RexRex said:
I'm not too fussed about you rating Mcgrath above Bumrah, the former was a champion bowler. My argument was against Akram. I brought in the Mcgrath-Bumble equation just to make the point that needless longevity isn't valued by the experts. Bumrah has been around for 8-9 years now which is enough.
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We can discuss Wasim vs Bumrah as well and I can present the exact same metrics.

In which case thr same issue will persists.

Look if you want to rate Bumrah >>>>> The planet then by all means. It's your faulty opinion that you can't even defend.

I have no issues with putting Bumrah > Wasim if he meets those metrics.

Im less concerned about the wicket tally and more concerned about Bumrah's horrible wc record in pressure moments, Followed by a horrible nz record in test, followed by the fact that I'll be very difficult for a bowler who can't bowl 25 overs and missed 2 years due to injury + is already 31 to maintain that 19 avg in test cricket.

Wasim in odi, his red flag is 2003 and some other games but most of them occurred at the back end of his career while Bumrah is in his prime.

Don't blame me, No one told bumrah to avg 45 against NZ or have such a pathetic odi record in crunch games.

As long as that 45 avg stays he cannot be put near Marshall, wasim, Mcgrath etc in test cricket, Same argument for odi.

And ironically it's shocking that he's avg 45 in test against NZ. Test in this era is the easiest for bowlers. Batting quality isn't as high and tests aren't drawn that much anymore unless rain intervenes.

Lastly wicket tally always counts. It's why travis head has a steep climb as well. Travis is in the class of Gilly and Warner as a player but his issue is age and lack of time, So he probably won't reach Warner and Gilly run tally or cemtury tally in odi and test cricket.
 
Waqar Younis averaged 29.15 in SENA, where pace bowling is supposedly "easier". Clearly, needed the abrasive Pakistan to enhance his "tampered ball" skills
 
IAJ said:
My last reply on this topic as this discussion is getting more stupid and I don't have as much time as you to type here.

Bradman is in his own class, no-one even close. So that case is closed.

Bumrah is not in his own class, even after 200 wickets. Waqar Younis, for instance, was averaging 20,60 after getting 200 wickets. Waqar even took 200 wickets in only 38 matches whereas Bumrah needed 44 matches to this. Waqar also had better SR. So your argument is dead already here. Not taking anything away from Bumrah. He is a class bowler, but since you have started this nitpicking I also had to get down to your level.

But what I am more interested to see is where Bumrah will stand after another 40-50 Test matches (if he ever plays). Time will tell and If I am alive then I will also commentate on that.
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This take should be consistent then.
Now that you brought in Waqar’s SR comparison and you are saying its better than Bumrah, the batsmen should now get the same threshold for comparison when the comparison happens with 90s test batsmen vs now without ever saying it was tougher to bat then.
 
JaDed said:
This take should be consistent then.
Now that you brought in Waqar’s SR comparison and you are saying its better than Bumrah, the batsmen should now get the same threshold for comparison when the comparison happens with 90s test batsmen vs now without ever saying it was tougher to bat then.
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My friend why are you getting into this debate?

Common sense seems to have gone out of the window when comparing Bumrah to Akram, Waqar, Marshall etc.
Keeping my views on Bumrah's action aside, Wasim played in an era where there were no central contracts, there were no fitness trainers, no attention to diets and nutrition etc and players had to toil for months in first class cricket to make a living....
 
IMMY69 said:
My friend why are you getting into this debate?

Common sense seems to have gone out of the window when comparing Bumrah to Akram, Waqar, Marshall etc.
Keeping my views on Bumrah's action aside, Wasim played in an era where there were no central contracts, there were no fitness trainers, no attention to diets and nutrition etc and players had to toil for months in first class cricket to make a living....
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And the batsman he had bowled??
 
aboveandbeyond said:
What's the point. When you blamed Pakistani Umpiring for imrans success against India. I could easily say, in India, imran would have been denied from the Indian umpires who had a history of bias them days.
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You could have said it. But then i would show you that Imran Avgd 58 with the bat in the tests he played in India.

Umpires seemed to be Pakistani when Imran was batting. No?

Books by International Cricketers mention the very poor state of umpiring in Pakistan.
 
cricketjoshila said:
You could have said it. But then i would show you that Imran Avgd 58 with the bat in the tests he played in India.

Umpires seemed to be Pakistani when Imran was batting. No?

Books by International Cricketers mention the very poor state of umpiring in Pakistan.
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It worked both ways. The umpiring in the sub continent them days was questionable.
 
IMMY69 said:
My friend why are you getting into this debate?

Common sense seems to have gone out of the window when comparing Bumrah to Akram, Waqar, Marshall etc.
Keeping my views on Bumrah's action aside, Wasim played in an era where there were no central contracts, there were no fitness trainers, no attention to diets and nutrition etc and players had to toil for months in first class cricket to make a living....
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Common sense says akram bowled to similar financially, technologically malnourished batsmen..So things even out there..
 
mominsaigol said:
The toughest batter he has dealt with is travis head. Mcsweeney, Khawaja etc etc aren't comparable.
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sorry but I refused to go past that line in your post ... ( ask me why and I assure you that you will not like my response )

so in your head these names must not exist at all ehh? : Steve Smith, Marnus, Warner, Khawaja etc

perhaps all T20 cricketers not worthy of wearing the whites ?
 
uppercut said:
sorry but I refused to go past that line in your post ... ( ask me why and I assure you that you will not like my response )

so in your head these names must not exist at all ehh? : Steve Smith, Marnus, Warner, Khawaja etc

perhaps all T20 cricketers not worthy of wearing the whites ?
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How about you dont bother reading.

Steve smith, Marnus, Warner and Khawaja were all burnt corpses by the time Bumrah came into his stride lol.

Not prime smith, Besides Prime smith has already tonked a 62 ball 100 against Bumrah.
 
cricketjoshila said:
If you read books by ex Cricketers they say that umpiring was patriotic in every country. But Pakistanis took it to a different level.
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Not really. I have read Autobiographys of famous past cricketers, they labeled SUBCONTINENT as a whole where umpiring was questionable.
 
It is a joke to compare Bhumrah with Asif. Asif had a terrible record in Australia. Bhumrah looks like taking a wicket of every delivery in comparison
 
aboveandbeyond said:
Not really. I have read Autobiographys of famous past cricketers, they labeled SUBCONTINENT as a whole where umpiring was questionable.
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Not really .... please read Steve Waughs biography .... I will spare you the details but really you must be joking if you want to claim that Pakistani umpires were unbiased .... I mean if there is one thing that Pakistan cricket deserves acknowledgement for is the introduction of neutral umpires in the 1989 series vs India mainly due to Imran and we all know how that worked out lol​
 
mominsaigol said:
Steve smith, Marnus, Warner and Khawaja were all burnt corpses by the time Bumrah came into his stride lol.
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Does it occur to you that its been 6 years since Bumrah started his test career? Infact Marnus started his career AFTER Bumrah. Think about that ... yes I know this might be overwhelming for your pea brain but try ... lol
 
uppercut said:
Does it occur to you that its been 6 years since Bumrah started his test career? Infact Marnus started his career AFTER Bumrah. Think about that ... yes I know this might be overwhelming for your pea brain but try ... lol
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What are you trying to say? That marnus is somehow comparable to hayden, pointing, gilly etc etc 🤣🤣
 
uppercut said:
Not really .... please read Steve Waughs biography .... I will spare you the details but really you must be joking if you want to claim that Pakistani umpires were unbiased .... I mean if there is one thing that Pakistan cricket deserves acknowledgement for is the introduction of neutral umpires in the 1989 series vs India mainly due to Imran and we all know how that worked out lol​
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When have i said Pakistan umpires were unbiased. I said, Subcontinent as a whole had issues with poor umpiring.
 
aboveandbeyond said:
When have i said Pakistan umpires were unbiased. I said, Subcontinent as a whole had issues with poor umpiring.
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nope ... don't even try to spread the guilt. I will give you some very glaring examples:

1. Sunny Gavaskar was given out wrongly in the 1986 test vs Pakistan with India just a few runs away from a win.
2. Ditto with the last wkt of Maninder Singh in the tied test match vs Aus ( the umpire wanted to be part of history ! )
 
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Advaith said:
Common sense says akram bowled to similar financially, technologically malnourished batsmen..So things even out there..
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You're right. The following batsmen were absolutely useless:-

Haynes
grenidge
Richardson
Gower
Gooch
Richards
Crowe
Waugh brothers
Gavaskar
Tendulkar
Vengsarker

and the list goes on as to how many ill prepared batsmen he bowled too...

But how exactly is your point relevant?
 
IMMY69 said:
You're right. The following batsmen were absolutely useless:-

Haynes
grenidge
Richardson
Gower
Gooch
Richards
Crowe
Waugh brothers
Gavaskar
Tendulkar
Vengsarker

and the list goes on as to how many ill prepared batsmen he bowled too...

But how exactly is your point relevant?
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He was average against these batsman , why are you giving this list ??
 
mominsaigol said:
What are you trying to say? That marnus is somehow comparable to hayden, pointing, gilly etc etc 🤣🤣
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naah, the point is that not one single player out of these 4 ( Smith, Marnus, Warner, Khawaja ) that you claim to be useless were by no means all "burnt corpses by the time Bumrah came into his stride" . Thats not how it works in Aussie cricket.
 
uppercut said:
naah, the point is that not one single player out of these 4 ( Smith, Marnus, Warner, Khawaja ) that you claim to be useless were by no means all "burnt corpses by the time Bumrah came into his stride" . Thats not how it works in Aussie cricket.
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Smith is a test goat and the 2nd best aussie test player after bradman, however bumrah wasn't as good as he is now post injury and hence prime steve smith vs prime bumrah never occurred. Even so a burnt out smith scored back to back hundreds with bumrah spearheading the attack. Credit to India for bringing smith back to form lol.

Khawaja is nothing special. Even in hisnprime he's a azhar Ali level batsmen and honestly an insult to hayden × gilly.

Warner is a poor man's sehwag in test cricket, he's only an odi goat. In test he was never good and Warner wouldn't replace anyone from classic Australia in test.

In odi yes, you could make a case for him replacing Hayden, since while hayden was a good odi batsmen and techincally more proficient, aus might opt for Warner + gilly combo to unleash carnage at the start.

However in tests cricket no shot in hell.

It's only steve smith but prime bumrah vs Prime steve smith never happened.

However tbf to Bumrah, steve smith only scored a century cause The other Indian bowler's are downright rubbish. Excluding bumrah, current india's bowling attack is no different then their bowling from 10 to 15 years ago when the likes of zaheer Khan was spearheading the attack lol. Actually I think siraj is 100x worse then zaheer lol
 
mominsaigol said:
Smith is a test goat and the 2nd best aussie test player after bradman, however bumrah wasn't as good as he is now post injury and hence prime steve smith vs prime bumrah never occurred. Even so a burnt out smith scored back to back hundreds with bumrah spearheading the attack. Credit to India for bringing smith back to form lol.
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Well with that sort of logic I can very well say that Steve Smith was lucky to evade Bumrah in 2018. Prove me wrong. If you cannot then you might have to explain how Steve Smith was "magically" a walking corpse in the 2020/21 series in Aus and the series that followed in India.


Go ahead present your wild conspiracy theories as to how every time he got out to Bumrah he was well past his prime but when he made runs it peoved that Bumrah was crap.

Dont be shy you can do this without any help from your buddies lol
 
uppercut said:
Well with that sort of logic I can very well say that Steve Smith was lucky to evade Bumrah in 2018. Prove me wrong. If you cannot then you might have to explain how Steve Smith was "magically" a walking corpse in the 2020/21 series in Aus and the series that followed in India.


Go ahead present your wild conspiracy theories as to how every time he got out to Bumrah he was well past his prime but when he made runs it peoved that Bumrah was crap.

Dont be shy you can do this without any help from your buddies lol
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Brother firstly calm down. I have no clue who you are. I just met you, so chill out.

Steve smith from 2014-2020 was a monster in the same way kohli from 2014-2020 was a monster in test cricket. Both were peak batters with kohli avg 57 and Smith avg 61. Smith was next level however avg 74 to 86 for 3 years as well in test cricket as well as the fact that he dominated every side in every country.

However after 2020 both of these 2 started fizzling out. Kohli fizzled out more 100%, since his avg dropped all the way down to 47 and he's only mustered 3 centuries in 5 to 6 years now. His form slump came in 2019.

Smith didn't suffer as much but his avg did fall from 61 to 56. Infact if it wasn't for India gifting Smith 2 centuries his avg would have probably dropped to 55 to 54, but now it's in the high 56's again and may climb up to 57.

Smith is a quality player but any ton dick and Harry can tell that these past 2 years have been his absolute worst.

Only his current century of 140 was good and gave us reminders of the Steve smith of the old.

His previous century 100 of 190 and his wtc century before that were pure definitions of struggles, luck, a few missed opportunities from the opposition and a test batter desperately trying to find his footing.

The difference between old smith and current smith is night and day, and if you took off your agenda glasses you'd be able to see it quite clearly.
 
Bumrah is the best on every single metric.

He is not just the best fast bowler he is the best cricketer and probably also the best sportsman of this modern era of sport.

And he hasn't tampered the ball once. Unlike some people.
 
BCCI-Enforcer said:
Bumrah is the best on every single metric.

He is not just the best fast bowler he is the best cricketer and probably also the best sportsman of this modern era of sport.

And he hasn't tampered the ball once. Unlike some people.
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Is rizwanthet20champ your cousin? 🤣🤣.
 
mominsaigol said:
Brother firstly calm down. I have no clue who you are. I just met you, so chill out.

Steve smith from 2014-2020 was a monster in the same way kohli from 2014-2020 was a monster in test cricket. Both were peak batters with kohli avg 57 and Smith avg 61. Smith was next level however avg 74 to 86 for 3 years as well in test cricket as well as the fact that he dominated every side in every country.

However after 2020 both of these 2 started fizzling out. Kohli fizzled out more 100%, since his avg dropped all the way down to 47 and he's only mustered 3 centuries in 5 to 6 years now. His form slump came in 2019.

Smith didn't suffer as much but his avg did fall from 61 to 56. Infact if it wasn't for India gifting Smith 2 centuries his avg would have probably dropped to 55 to 54, but now it's in the high 56's again and may climb up to 57.

Smith is a quality player but any ton dick and Harry can tell that these past 2 years have been his absolute worst.

Only his current century of 140 was good and gave us reminders of the Steve smith of the old.

His previous century 100 of 190 and his wtc century before that were pure definitions of struggles, luck, a few missed opportunities from the opposition and a test batter desperately trying to find his footing.

The difference between old smith and current smith is night and day, and if you took off your agenda glasses you'd be able to see it quite clearly.
Click to expand...

So is there a EXACT date when Smith the "Old" Smith ceased to exist and the basis for that ?
 
Best bowler of the year rlght. What is the ball of the year. It has to be this one.
 
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mominsaigol said:
Brother firstly calm down. I have no clue who you are. I just met you, so chill out.

Steve smith from 2014-2020 was a monster in the same way kohli from 2014-2020 was a monster in test cricket. Both were peak batters with kohli avg 57 and Smith avg 61. Smith was next level however avg 74 to 86 for 3 years as well in test cricket as well as the fact that he dominated every side in every country.

However after 2020 both of these 2 started fizzling out. Kohli fizzled out more 100%, since his avg dropped all the way down to 47 and he's only mustered 3 centuries in 5 to 6 years now. His form slump came in 2019.

Smith didn't suffer as much but his avg did fall from 61 to 56. Infact if it wasn't for India gifting Smith 2 centuries his avg would have probably dropped to 55 to 54, but now it's in the high 56's again and may climb up to 57.

Smith is a quality player but any ton dick and Harry can tell that these past 2 years have been his absolute worst.

Only his current century of 140 was good and gave us reminders of the Steve smith of the old.

His previous century 100 of 190 and his wtc century before that were pure definitions of struggles, luck, a few missed opportunities from the opposition and a test batter desperately trying to find his footing.

The difference between old smith and current smith is night and day, and if you took off your agenda glasses you'd be able to see it quite clearly.
Click to expand...
Kohli was never ever in Smith's class in odi or tests at Smith's peak.

He never was in Smith's class at all in tests.

If india had a player like Smith we would win 4 more icc events.

Indian bowling was goat Asian bowling attack from 2015 to 2021 but we had weak batting. Very weak batsmen. Only puji and kohli were there. But they are not true atg's.

Smith is still elite

He would have been 100% between 2014 to 2020

But he is still like 85% now. He is truly elite. Goat batsman.

But bumrah is better than waqar and imran

Only behind wasim for longevity.

Last 2 lines were just added to make the post relevant to the thread title. But it's also true.
 
Romali_rotti said:
Yeah Waqar is the greatest bowler of all time imo.

Bro avgs 48 vs India, 34 vs Aus and 28 vs SA.

That's some atg stats right there.

:clown
Click to expand...
Tulla bowler. He is what I call a tulla bowler. He is behind shami. Shami is better than steroid abuser shoaib and Waqar. We used to mock him by calling him wack qer

I never rated this guy. Even his peak He never really owned any top batsman.

Wasim yes legendary and imran.
 
Bumrah is in a league of his own. His action is pretty ugly but effective. He got some cracking yorkers. Best of the best atm.
 
Great year overall for Bumrah. Even as a captain won a test. A humble guy. Only guys who hated Bumrah during IPL was Kohli fans.
 
Devadwal said:
Ok so my next question if Bumrah can retire from test cricket now than how you rate him.

He has already achieved ( 200@19.43) what had don Bradman achieved ( 7000 runs@99)

:kp
Click to expand...
Without going into exact position, Bumrah will go down as the elite and the top 10 test pacers in history.
In all 3 formats combined, he will go down as the best pacers.

But then not many elite level test pacers have played all 3 formats. Marshall, IK, Hadlee, McGrath, Donald, Steyn etc were elite level in test and only Steyn played .all 3 formats. McGrath was elite in test and ODi both, so if counting only those two formats, he will surely go above Bumrah. Wasim wasn't elite level in test so goes below due to test weight being far bigger in legacy. Also, Wasim has a pretty ordinary record in WC against non-minnows while Mcgrath had a great record in WC.


He won't go down as the best test pacer if he calls it a day right now. A different situation than Bradman. Bradman was averaging far above his peers and that's not the case for Bumrah. I know 2 teams and amatuer era, but simply going by relative performacne against peers here. I do rate Bradman as the best test bat despite being familiar with argument against it.

Test + ODI + T20 - Elite in all formats and clearly the best all format pacer
Only Test + ODI - Elite in both formats and among top 5 pacers.
Only test - Elite test pacer and among the top 10.

He is going no where close to best test pacer if he calls it a day right now. Marshall, Hadlee, McGrath... no need to say more. 300 test wickets with similar output, then yes he will go down as the best test pacer, but it's mighty hard task. History is witness to that. I don't think he can do it, but I will be cheering for him. I will cheer some other pacer as well to even surpass that, that's how our cricket becomes richer and richer. All giants of the game have left their marks.

What he has done in 2024 is simply outlier year in entire history of cricket and you can't expect repeat of that. Some players did in one format and some did at home in past, but he did against a super dominant home team's den and also did it in T20.

It will be interesting to see how he compares against ATG away series for tough tours for pacers after 5th test is over. Home many have done it, but away? I don't remember many pacers doing it in the last 35 years against top 3 teams.
.
 
mominsaigol said:
Akram is ahead for now due to longetivity, an world cup victory + more wickets at a steady economy.

Bumrah needs to achieve said metrics. Bumrah has his 2024 moment yes but it's t20 and not as impressive as what wasim achieved in 1992.

Atm unless you're Indian and biased, no sane person would put bumrah in an 11 over wasim especially factoring in the fact that wasim can bat a bit as well
Click to expand...

mominsaigol said:
Akram is ahead for now due to longetivity, an world cup victory + more wickets at a steady economy.

Bumrah needs to achieve said metrics. Bumrah has his 2024 moment yes but it's t20 and not as impressive as what wasim achieved in 1992.

Atm unless you're Indian and biased, no sane person would put bumrah in an 11 over wasim especially factoring in the fact that wasim can bat a bit as well.
Click to expand...
bumrah is only comparable to mcgrath ,Hadleee,steyn ,masrshall he’s top 5 of all time only a biased pakistani fan will put wasim ahead of him while wasim himself acknowledged bumrah better than him. Any sane person will pick bumrah even over wasim+waqar(club leven bowler if hadnt done ball tampering) so come out of yr delusion world isnt you. The guy who has best average of all time to get 200 wickets
 
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@Golu-momin
Bumrah is better record than all of those bowler.

He is the best bowler ever. Period.

His name should be amongst Pele, maradona, tiger woods, Federer as greatest sportsman of all time. Not discussed with these players you are mentioning.
 
kron said:
Tulla bowler. He is what I call a tulla bowler. He is behind shami. Shami is better than steroid abuser shoaib and Waqar. We used to mock him by calling him wack qer

I never rated this guy. Even his peak He never really owned any top batsman.

Wasim yes legendary and imran.
Click to expand...
Jadeja will always be Waqar's daddy.

WC 96, greatest humiliation of all time...

Never rated him, from all the times I have seen him, he has been avg to rubbish.

Wasim I feel is above Bumrah and that is due to longevity, and his overall ability with the bat also..
 
Damn india is going to play 10 test in 2025 and just 5 test in 2026 .

I thought we are going to play minimum 20 test in next 2 years so GOAT can take another 100 wickets .

:kp
 
Romali_rotti said:
Jadeja will always be Waqar's daddy.

WC 96, greatest humiliation of all time...

Never rated him, from all the times I have seen him, he has been avg to rubbish.

Wasim I feel is above Bumrah and that is due to longevity, and his overall ability with the bat also..
Click to expand...
I respect that. I do think bumrah purely as a bowler is better than wasim. Impact fear factor and just overall ability. But longevity counts as well. If he keeps this up for 3 more years then it's over for wasim. I have wasim above bumrah purely for longevity right now.

Batting ability I don't care cause wasims batting ability dint really help them win more games in SA or aus. Impact wise it was minimal.

But going by stats and impact you can really make a case for imran being ahead of wasim too.
 
Golu-momin said:
Golumomin bumrah is only comparable to mcgrath ,Hadleee,steyn ,masrshall he’s top 5 of all time only a biased pakistani fan will put wasim ahead of him while wasim himself acknowledged bumrah better than him. Any sane person will pick bumrah even over wasim+waqar(club leven bowler if hadnt done ball tampering) so come out of yr delusion world isnt you. The guy who has best average of all time to get 200 wickets stop crying accept reality.
Click to expand...
A case can be made for imran being top 2 bro. I know ball tampering happened with imran too. He admitted it himself.

But doesn't discount his ability. Still bumrah is ahead in terms of impact fear factor and ability. Longevity wise imran and wasim are ahead.
 
Golu-momin said:
bumrah is only comparable to mcgrath ,Hadleee,steyn ,masrshall he’s top 5 of all time only a biased pakistani fan will put wasim ahead of him while wasim himself acknowledged bumrah better than him. Any sane person will pick bumrah even over wasim+waqar(club leven bowler if hadnt done ball tampering) so come out of yr delusion world isnt you. The guy who has best average of all time to get 200 wickets
Click to expand...
Debunk what i said
 
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kron said:
I respect that. I do think bumrah purely as a bowler is better than wasim. Impact fear factor and just overall ability. But longevity counts as well. If he keeps this up for 3 more years then it's over for wasim. I have wasim above bumrah purely for longevity right now.

Batting ability I don't care cause wasims batting ability dint really help them win more games in SA or aus. Impact wise it was minimal.

But going by stats and impact you can really make a case for imran being ahead of wasim too.
Click to expand...

Imran averaged a insane 51 with bat and 19 with ball in his last 52 tests. GOAT Level.
 
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