PM Modi's government announces implementation of Citizenship Amendment Act (CAA) [Post Updated #85]

[Red-Indian]

The lid on BD economy was blown last year when they had to run to IMF for a bailout.

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/imf-board-clears-first-review-bangladeshs-47-billion-bailout-2023-12-12/

Such was their economic condition that they were not able to pay for energy fuels and started closing down businesses to conserve energy.

Bangladesh goes all out just to save power: Shops, markets to be shut after 8 pm | World News – India TV

The notification aims at saving power and energy against the backdrop of worldwide continued price hike in power and energy price.

www.indiatvnews.com

So this is one area where I'm pretty well informed. Bangladesh has issues but they're not structural like Pakistan or Sri Lanka's. While the current account deficit is a problem because they insist on managing their exchange rate, especially recently, they're in a pretty good position overall because their government debt is at ~35% of GDP - well below the regional and developing country averages of around ~50%. Even their external debt service hovers around 5% of forex inflows which is really solid. Their debt profile is also very neat.

They could've borrowed from the market (Pakistan couldn't dream of it) but chose to go to the IMF to signal their seriousness and got approved easily unlike all the negotiation that had to happen for the other countries.

They're like the boy in the class who was a good student but has fallen into some bad habits recently like not turning in homework on time and the teachers are keeping an eye on him but not too worried. Pakistan in contrast is the guy sitting with his legs up on the last bench smoking a cigarette in class.

 

[cricketjoshila]

For every question, your answer historically veers towards Pakistan. It is very clear that most of the policies and decisions backed by hindu posters here are in direct response or reaction to Pakistani policies.

If that was not the case, you would simply engage in a sensible debate, but it takes two posts tops before you pivot to the glvoe dont fit defense using Pakistan.

Honestly dont know how else to interpret this.

I don't understand why pakistan has to have an opinion about everything Indian?

CAA is essentially an Indian act. Why are pakistanis concerned about it?

Ram Mandir is in India or Modi is Indian PM, still you have pakistanis having concerns about it.

 

[cricketjoshila]

So this is one area where I'm pretty well informed. Bangladesh has issues but they're not structural like Pakistan or Sri Lanka's. While the current account deficit is a problem because they insist on managing their exchange rate, especially recently, they're in a pretty good position overall because their government debt is at ~35% of GDP - well below the regional and developing country averages of around ~50%. Even their external debt service hovers around 5% of forex inflows which is really solid. Their debt profile is also very neat.

They could've borrowed from the market (Pakistan couldn't dream of it) but chose to go to the IMF to signal their seriousness and got approved easily unlike all the negotiation that had to happen for the other countries.

They're like the boy in the class who was a good student but has fallen into some bad habits recently like not turning in homework on time and the teachers are keeping an eye on him but not too worried. Pakistan in contrast is the guy sitting with his legs up on the last bench smoking a cigarette in class.

Why do you think BD is forced to manage their currency rates?

 

[Stewie]

I don't understand why pakistan has to have an opinion about everything Indian?

CAA is essentially an Indian act. Why are pakistanis concerned about it?

Ram Mandir is in India or Modi is Indian PM, still you have pakistanis having concerns about it.

Why do Indians care so much if Pakistanis have an opinion? Do we bother you much? You guys dont hang out on a pakisani board just because of brotherly love, thats for sure. YOU HAVE OVER 43,000 POSTS on a Pakistani board.
Maybe giddy up and develop a thick skin, and stop whining and pivoting to the OJ SIMPSON DEFENSE.

Now help me understand this like a good indian that you are, how do you define humanitarian based immigration policies or legal asylum and how does this indian act exactly qualify as a humanitarian act if it precludes people based on religion?

 

[RexRex]

I don't understand why pakistan has to have an opinion about everything Indian?

He must deeeply care about India, you know how the saying goes - 'you only criticise the ones you love. Am i right, stewie ?

 

[Statpadder Inc]

@Stewie , pak, bang and afg have islam as the state religion, why would they flee religious oppression and come to hindu rashtra india

 

[Red-Indian]

Why do you think BD is forced to manage their currency rates?

A lot of developing countries fall into this trap equating exchanging rates with national pride and good governance. You've got to let things find their level. Even today Bangladesh maintains petrol at a lower price at the pump than India (still higher than Pakistan). That eats at their forex.

 

[Stewie]

He must deeeply care about India, you know how the saying goes - 'you only criticise the ones you love. Am i right, stewie ?

LOL its actually the other way around. I see Indians discuss Pakistan and spend hours a day posting hundredns and thousands of posts on a Pakistani forum and it just makes me wonder, I am sure I am not the only Pakistani here who wonders.

Why would Indian posters flock to a Pakistani board, jump into discussions between Pakistanis and their views about India and try to defend themselves? Very curious, isnt it?

 

[Stewie]

@Stewie , pak, bang and afg have islam as the state religion, why would they flee religious oppression and come to hindu rashtra india

THEY WOULD NOT! and hence my curiosity as to why would the state go out of their way to express this particular language in what they claim is a "humanitarian" cause. If you know MUSLIMS are not exactly running to your country to seek refuge, why go out of your way to state "We welcome everyone EXCEPT MUSLIMS, because we feel so much for humanity"

The whole thing reads like an oxymoron.

 

[Rajdeep]

I dont think anybody in India will have an issue with it because they know more about the reality this is just playing to a target audience and does not hold any meaning.

I think this would be probably the first and only such act in modern post world war II history where something is being implemented with the label of a "humanitarian cause" and yet takes exra pains to exclude one particular religion. Its basically bigotry masquerading as a humanitarian cause.

I have no issue with what India and Indians do, but dont try to market a jar of **** as grandma's peach tea (yes that was a Batman vs Superman reference)

If you want to extend your assistance and help to certain people and not others, its not humanitarian (because it does not cover all of humanity). Call it a name that fits. Anti Muslim act or Hindu and friends Act or something.

That is because people from that specific religion demanded and got a separate country. Not sure why you guys keep forgetting that muslims choose not to live with Hindus in 1947 and got their own Islamic republic . So a muslim can't get persecuted in an Islamic republic for bring minority. However, there is no Hindu Rasthra or Christian republic or Sikh nation or Buddhist rashtra or Jain republic etc. So where will these people go when they get persecuted in autocratic nations? India making a law to bring them in India and giving them citizenship is humanitarian cause no doubt.

However, you simply cannot stuffing people in, in an already over populated nation like India without kicking some out. It will simply be not feasable in the long term as it will have an impact in everyone's livelihood. That is why I said even though CAA is a noble move by govt, it cannot happen without NRC and both must happen in parallel. But it is not easy to implement NRC as that will open a lot of can of worms.

 

[Stewie]

That is because people from that specific religion demanded and got a separate country. Not sure why you guys keep forgetting that muslims choose not to live with Hindus in 1947 and got their own Islamic republic . So a muslim can't get persecuted in an Islamic republic for bring minority. However, there is no Hindu Rasthra or Christian republic or Sikh nation or Buddhist rashtra or Jain republic etc. So where will these people go when they get persecuted in autocratic nations? India making a law to bring them in India and giving them citizenship is humanitarian cause no doubt.

However, you simply cannot stuffing people in, in an already over populated nation like India without kicking some out. It will simply be not feasable in the long term as it will have an impact in everyone's livelihood. That is why I said even though CAA is a noble move by govt, it cannot happen without NRC and both must happen in parallel. But it is not easy to implement NRC as that will open a lot of can of worms.

So at the end of the day, India is NOT a secular nation then. If religion is being considered to make policy decisions, that totally goes against the narrative and definition of a secular state.

Also this act, by definition, cannot be classified as a humanitarian cause. It is a "selective" religious persecution refugee act. yes, you can write that down and turn it into an acroynm, I wont charge or ask for royalty.

If you try to pass it as a humanitarian cause, I think you will see a lot of pushback here on it because understand this is a pakistani forum, and mostly we dont digest such garbage easily. So if you gotta complain about Pakistanis poking holes into the whole thing, maybe complain elsewhere.

 

[Pakpak]

Law 1 This law allows non-Muslim immigrants to come to India and gain residence.
Law 2 The second law states that anyone unable to prove their Indian residence through documents/parents/grandparents will lose residence and Indian citizenship. So countless poor people with no documentation. However any non-Muslim who cant prove their Indian residence will be covered law 1 but since that law only covers non-Muslims therefore any Muslims unable to prove their residence status under Law 2 are essentially made stateless.

Its quite cunning the way they have done this.

 

[Pakpak]

LOL its actually the other way around. I see Indians discuss Pakistan and spend hours a day posting hundredns and thousands of posts on a Pakistani forum and it just makes me wonder, I am sure I am not the only Pakistani here who wonders.

Why would Indian posters flock to a Pakistani board, jump into discussions between Pakistanis and their views about India and try to defend themselves? Very curious, isnt it?

Their own forums are cesspits where Pakistanis are called Porkistanis. So they come to more tolerant forums to spread BJP media cells propaganda. Just like Israeli hasbara trolls.

 

[Cover Drive Six]

@Stewie , pak, bang and afg have islam as the state religion, why would they flee religious oppression and come to hindu rashtra india

Bangladesh has kicked out Rohingya refugees, and Pakistan has expelled Afghan refugees, leaving them to find refuge in other countries. Because they hate them.

 

[Rajdeep]

So at the end of the day, India is NOT a secular nation then. If religion is being considered to make policy decisions, that totally goes against the narrative and definition of a secular state.

Also this act, by definition, cannot be classified as a humanitarian cause. It is a "selective" religious persecution refugee act. yes, you can write that down and turn it into an acroynm, I wont charge or ask for royalty.

If you try to pass it as a humanitarian cause, I think you will see a lot of pushback here on it because understand this is a pakistani forum, and mostly we dont digest such garbage easily. So if you gotta complain about Pakistanis poking holes into the whole thing, maybe complain elsewhere.

That fact that it is giving shelter to persecuted minorities from other countries itself is a secular move.

I think you are missing the point. The CAA bill is about giving shelter to persecuted minorities from countries that are born out of religion. Muslims are not majority in those countries and hence been excluded.

I am happy to be challenged on that why you think its an unfair move.

 

[Cover Drive Six]

THEY WOULD NOT! and hence my curiosity as to why would the state go out of their way to express this particular language in what they claim is a "humanitarian" cause. If you know MUSLIMS are not exactly running to your country to seek refuge, why go out of your way to state "We welcome everyone EXCEPT MUSLIMS, because we feel so much for humanity"

The whole thing reads like an oxymoron.

CAA was implemented to provide assistance to persecuted minorities in Muslim-majority countries. Why do Muslims from neighboring countries seek refugee status in India when they are the majority in their own country?

CAA endeavors to offer Indian citizenship to persecuted non-Muslim migrants. This includes Hindus, Sikhs, Jains, Buddhists, Parsis, and Christians who migrated from Bangladesh, Pakistan, and Afghanistan.

 

[guard]

LOL its actually the other way around. I see Indians discuss Pakistan and spend hours a day posting hundredns and thousands of posts on a Pakistani forum and it just makes me wonder, I am sure I am not the only Pakistani here who wonders.

Why would Indian posters flock to a Pakistani board, jump into discussions between Pakistanis and their views about India and try to defend themselves? Very curious, isnt it?

Gaslighting, whataboutery…and everything in between..and all that jazz

 

[guard]

Their own forums are cesspits where Pakistanis are called Porkistanis. So they come to more tolerant forums to spread BJP media cells propaganda. Just like Israeli hasbara trolls.

Absolutely, and then you see the obligatory or whoever Pakistan or Islam is mocked… by the usual (but expected) folk

 

[guard]

Bangladesh has kicked out Rohingya refugees, and Pakistan has expelled Afghan refugees, leaving them to find refuge in other countries. Because they hate them.

You lot know Exactly why Pakistan has kicked the terrorist sympathiser afghanis out..lol

 

[cricketjoshila]

Why do Indians care so much if Pakistanis have an opinion? Do we bother you much? You guys dont hang out on a pakisani board just because of brotherly love, thats for sure. YOU HAVE OVER 43,000 POSTS on a Pakistani board.
Maybe giddy up and develop a thick skin, and stop whining and pivoting to the OJ SIMPSON DEFENSE.

Now help me understand this like a good indian that you are, how do you define humanitarian based immigration policies or legal asylum and how does this indian act exactly qualify as a humanitarian act if it precludes people based on religion?

Most of my posts are on cricket or on threads about India.

I wonder why do so many threads about India exist on a Pakistani forum? Threads about our laws, our politics, everything.

Thick skin? You think that the opinion of pakistanis going to affect India?

I don't think India is in any race to qualify for any refugee in take competition. We are not a signatory to the refugees convention.

Its absolutely necessary to not let people who once divided the country on the basis of religion back into the country. You took your country in 1947, you are no more welcome here.

Non Muslims in those areas became second class citizens. Hence these persecuted people to be given an opportunity to get Indian citizenship.

 

[Stewie]

Most of my posts are on cricket or on threads about India.

I wonder why do so many threads about India exist on a Pakistani forum? Threads about our laws, our politics, everything.

Thick skin? You think that the opinion of pakistanis going to affect India?

I don't think India is in any race to qualify for any refugee in take competition. We are not a signatory to the refugees convention.

Its absolutely necessary to not let people who once divided the country on the basis of religion back into the country. You took your country in 1947, you are no more welcome here.

Non Muslims in those areas became second class citizens. Hence these persecuted people to be given an opportunity to get Indian citizenship.

oh yehi to mein keh raha hoon. I am a nice guy not like Trump, using bad language to describe a country so I il just say I am curious why would anyone be flocking into INDIA. We already took a nice chunk and I dont think our people have any desire to go to Bharat, a few exceptions like Adnan Sami and those related to show biz may exist but the number is negigible.

So why would Modi ji like to go and especially mention Muslims in this law? Or do your sentiments echo his? Is he and most Bharatis so hurt and traumatized over what happened so many years ago that now they are finally saying "hum ne inke saath nahi khelna na inhein aney dena hai" HAHA.

Is the absurdity of it all really lost on you guys? This is like Putin saying Ukrainians are not welcome here but we will give asylum to Belarussians. Here, I am passing this historic act now to make it a law!

Very gimmicky! Redundant, pointless, etc. The only value or positive consequence i see out of this is for Pakistani hindus who sought refuge there and last I saw a video, were living in absolute squalor around Delhi. A some of them actually wanted to come back to Pakistan.

IF this ac helps fast track their welfare, great! But India could have done that even without this law, was my point. I dont think it makes a shred of a difference. Bus Tapne keliey tora "moojik" chahiey tha Modi ko, it sounds like.

 

[cricketjoshila]

oh yehi to mein keh raha hoon. I am a nice guy not like Trump, using bad language to describe a country so I il just say I am curious why would anyone be flocking into INDIA. We already took a nice chunk and I dont think our people have any desire to go to Bharat, a few exceptions like Adnan Sami and those related to show biz may exist but the number is negigible.

So why would Modi ji like to go and especially mention Muslims in this law? Or do your sentiments echo his? Is he and most Bharatis so hurt and traumatized over what happened so many years ago that now they are finally saying "hum ne inke saath nahi khelna na inhein aney dena hai" HAHA.

Is the absurdity of it all really lost on you guys? This is like Putin saying Ukrainians are not welcome here but we will give asylum to Belarussians. Here, I am passing this historic act now to make it a law!

Very gimmicky! Redundant, pointless, etc. The only value or positive consequence i see out of this is for Pakistani hindus who sought refuge there and last I saw a video, were living in absolute squalor around Delhi. A some of them actually wanted to come back to Pakistan.

IF this ac helps fast track their welfare, great! But India could have done that even without this law, was my point. I dont think it makes a shred of a difference. Bus Tapne keliey tora "moojik" chahiey tha Modi ko, it sounds like.

1. You have a nice chunk yet your country deems it necessary to comment on matters in India that doesn't concern Pakistan. Why?

2.As per a statement made in the pakistani national assembly, nearly 5000 Hindus were migrating to India each year.

5,000 Hindus migrating to India every year, NA told

PML-N's Dr Ramesh Kumar Vankwani said that influential people were converting religion of Hindu girls in interior Sindh.

www.dawn.com

3. Because Muslims are majority in a Islamic country and hence not eligible for asylum in India.

4. Putin can pass such a law. Most countries have different rules for different nationalities for entering their country.

5. India doesn't have a refugee law, so getting citizenship for these persecuted minorities was not easy.

 

[Stewie]

Gaslighting, whataboutery…and everything in between..and all that jazz

I think they make our heads spin as well as their own probably even more, aisa bhameeri maarte hein. LOL

 

[Stewie]

1. You have a nice chunk yet your country deems it necessary to comment on matters in India that doesn't concern Pakistan. Why?

2.As per a statement made in the pakistani national assembly, nearly 5000 Hindus were migrating to India each year.

5,000 Hindus migrating to India every year, NA told

PML-N's Dr Ramesh Kumar Vankwani said that influential people were converting religion of Hindu girls in interior Sindh.

www.dawn.com

3. Because Muslims are majority in a Islamic country and hence not eligible for asylum in India.

4. Putin can pass such a law. Most countries have different rules for different nationalities for entering their country.

5. India doesn't have a refugee law, so getting citizenship for these persecuted minorities was not easy.

Said the Indian Hindu with over 43,000 posts on a Pakistani board. Very nice! Which way is up and which is down, can you tell? LOL

 

[JaDed]

Nothing wrong with the law that brings in refugees, but the document law for citizens living in India needs to wait for a bit and government needs to mandate Adhar card for everyone and after tbat they can.

 

[Stewie]

Nothing wrong with the law that brings in refugees, but the document law for citizens living in India needs to wait for a bit and government needs to mandate Adhar card for everyone and after tbat they can.

so nobody wants to talk about... once again no expert here so take it with grain of salt..... that there are a lot of Muslims in India living in rural areas who are not educated enough to have any documentation that proves they are indians. proof of birth, land ownership, identifications, etc.

Is this law humanitarian enough for them as well or how do you really interpret it for them?

 

[Stewie]

so nobody wants to talk about... once again no expert here so take it with grain of salt..... that there are a lot of Muslims in India living in rural areas who are not educated enough to have any documentation that proves they are indians. proof of birth, land ownership, identifications, etc.

Is this law humanitarian enough for them as well or how do you really interpret it for them?

oh wait, i take it back. Please dont answer that question. SOME INDIAN IN LOVE WITH PAKISTANI FORUMS already did. Muslims are not welcome in India because we already took our chunk of the land.

so im guessing these people will be deported off to timbuktu or something? or perhaps conveniently killed off? Do you like hindu biskits with your secular chai or secular chai with hindu biskits? LOL

 

[JaDed]

so nobody wants to talk about... once again no expert here so take it with grain of salt..... that there are a lot of Muslims in India living in rural areas who are not educated enough to have any documentation that proves they are indians. proof of birth, land ownership, identifications, etc.

Is this law humanitarian enough for them as well or how do you really interpret it for them?

Sorry what? The government did the cruel Demonisation, mandating Adhar is nothing, the poor have ration card giving free food, I doubt any poor lets go of free food for ration?

Ration card is enough to get an adhar card.

 

[JaDed]

oh wait, i take it back. Please dont answer that question. SOME INDIAN IN LOVE WITH PAKISTANI FORUMS already did. Muslims are not welcome in India because we already took our chunk of the land.

so im guessing these people will be deported off to timbuktu or something? or perhaps conveniently killed off? Do you like hindu biskits with your secular chai or secular chai with hindu biskits? LOL

Don’t you live in States? Are you saying US should have no paper laws?

 

[Stewie]

Sorry what? The government did the cruel Demonisation, mandating Adhar is nothing, the poor have ration card giving free food, I doubt any poor lets go of free food for ration?

Ration card is enough to get an adhar card.

Two different things, what you and I are saying, I think.

 

[Stewie]

Don’t you live in States? Are you saying US should have no paper laws?

waaaaaaay off mark!

I have an Indian Muslim friend who expressed his concern to me about what I shared. I will give you a proposed scenario, see if that makes sense.

You are a villager. your parents didnt keep any birth records of you being born in india. there are no property documents. you dont have any government ID. But you now you want one. You go to whatever government branch and they ask you to furnish documentation you are INDIAN.

You have none, and you are Muslim. So what happens? You get kicked out or do they say "thats cool, bud, here is your passport, you adhaar card, whatever, go kill the waves" or do they say "oh he is Muslim, modi ji warned us about him"

That was my question

 

[JaDed]

waaaaaaay off mark!

I have an Indian Muslim friend who expressed his concern to me about what I shared. I will give you a proposed scenario, see if that makes sense.

You are a villager. your parents didnt keep any birth records of you being born in india. there are no property documents. you dont have any government ID. But you now you want one. You go to whatever government branch and they ask you to furnish documentation you are INDIAN.

You have none, and you are Muslim. So what happens? You get kicked out or do they say "thats cool, bud, here is your passport, you adhaar card, whatever, go kill the waves" or do they say "oh he is Muslim, modi ji warned us about him"

That was my question

There are answers to that but i doubt you will accept it.

How Homeless or the People with No Documents Can Enroll for Aadhaar - Aadhaar Card

All residents of India has a right to apply for Aadhaar Card, whether the resident may be homeless or without any documents. So in this post we will specially mention How Homeless or the People with No Documents Can Enroll for Aadhaar. Usually to apply for Aadhaar Card, residents have to furnish...

aadhaarcard.net.in

 

[CricketCartoons]

Law 1 This law allows non-Muslim immigrants to come to India and gain residence.
Law 2 The second law states that anyone unable to prove their Indian residence through documents/parents/grandparents will lose residence and Indian citizenship. So countless poor people with no documentation. However any non-Muslim who cant prove their Indian residence will be covered law 1 but since that law only covers non-Muslims therefore any Muslims unable to prove their residence status under Law 2 are essentially made stateless.

Its quite cunning the way they have done this.

Which law 2? is there any draft of that law 2 tabled in the parliament? I challenge you to show it.

Yet another misinformation post.

And law 1, it allows non muslim immigrants to come? They have already come and living in India, and they are being given citizenship. They are minorities from those countries.

Yet this poster words them as non muslims instead of minorities.

Quite a cunning way to spread misinformation and lies.

 

[CricketCartoons]

waaaaaaay off mark!

I have an Indian Muslim friend who expressed his concern to me about what I shared. I will give you a proposed scenario, see if that makes sense.

You are a villager. your parents didnt keep any birth records of you being born in india. there are no property documents. you dont have any government ID. But you now you want one. You go to whatever government branch and they ask you to furnish documentation you are INDIAN.

You have none, and you are Muslim. So what happens? You get kicked out or do they say "thats cool, bud, here is your passport, you adhaar card, whatever, go kill the waves" or do they say "oh he is Muslim, modi ji warned us about him"

That was my question

Go and ask him which law he is talking about. If there is any bill or draft tabled in the parliament for it. And if there is none, how does he have this inside knowledge.

 

[CricketCartoons]

oh wait, i take it back. Please dont answer that question. SOME INDIAN IN LOVE WITH PAKISTANI FORUMS already did. Muslims are not welcome in India because we already took our chunk of the land.

so im guessing these people will be deported off to timbuktu or something? or perhaps conveniently killed off? Do you like hindu biskits with your secular chai or secular chai with hindu biskits? LOL

First one all, which muslims are lining up in india for citizenship? From which countries?

Second: There is a normal process for anyone to get citizenship through naturalization. That stays as is.

Third: This law does not change the normal route. It provides an accelerated route for those minorities ALREADY living in India.

And yet people have problem with a pro minority law. Why? Because they think that only muslims have monopoly over the word minority, even if they are coming from a muslim majority country? Or they have problem because the minorities who have ALREADY come from PK/BD are non muslims, and non muslims should not get any privilege?

 

[CricketCartoons]

So why would Modi ji like to go and especially mention Muslims in this law? Or do your sentiments echo his? Is he and most Bharatis so hurt and traumatized over what happened so many years ago that now they are finally saying "hum ne inke saath nahi khelna na inhein aney dena hai" HAHA.

Lies and misinformation again. It has become a habit.

I challenge you to show the word muslim in this law? Go on. It is readily available on the parliament website.

Show me where it mentions muslims, even at one place.

Now you will have problem with muslims NOT being mentioned?

 

[CricketCartoons]

I doubt the posters who are debating this issue have even read the bill. Either wilfully or ignorantly, they are spreading lies and have no shame doing it.

 

[cricketjoshila]

so nobody wants to talk about... once again no expert here so take it with grain of salt..... that there are a lot of Muslims in India living in rural areas who are not educated enough to have any documentation that proves they are indians. proof of birth, land ownership, identifications, etc.

Is this law humanitarian enough for them as well or how do you really interpret it for them?

Education has nothing to do with documentation.

In India you need documents for almost every basic thing.

And how poor Muslims will not have documents but others will have documents.

 

[cricketjoshila]

waaaaaaay off mark!

I have an Indian Muslim friend who expressed his concern to me about what I shared. I will give you a proposed scenario, see if that makes sense.

You are a villager. your parents didnt keep any birth records of you being born in india. there are no property documents. you dont have any government ID. But you now you want one. You go to whatever government branch and they ask you to furnish documentation you are INDIAN.

You have none, and you are Muslim. So what happens? You get kicked out or do they say "thats cool, bud, here is your passport, you adhaar card, whatever, go kill the waves" or do they say "oh he is Muslim, modi ji warned us about him"

That was my question

Can I land up in any country and claim citizenship without having any proof of it?

 

[CricketCartoons]

You said the law mentions muslims. Show where it is mentioned or accept you were wrong or lying.

 

[rpant_gabba]

THEY WOULD NOT! and hence my curiosity as to why would the state go out of their way to express this particular language in what they claim is a "humanitarian" cause. If you know MUSLIMS are not exactly running to your country to seek refuge, why go out of your way to state "We welcome everyone EXCEPT MUSLIMS, because we feel so much for humanity"

The whole thing reads like an oxymoron.

Yes. becos, It was muslims led by jinnah who declared muslims and hindus can't live together and violently agitated to create east pakistan and west pakistan.

So If those muslims don't like their islamic nation, too bad.

So at the end of the day, India is NOT a secular nation then. If religion is being considered to make policy decisions, that totally goes against the narrative and definition of a secular state.

Also this act, by definition, cannot be classified as a humanitarian cause. It is a "selective" religious persecution refugee act. yes, you can write that down and turn it into an acroynm, I wont charge or ask for royalty.

If you try to pass it as a humanitarian cause, I think you will see a lot of pushback here on it because understand this is a pakistani forum, and mostly we dont digest such garbage easily. So if you gotta complain about Pakistanis poking holes into the whole thing, maybe complain elsewhere.

guess you have not clue.

India hs never been a secular nation.

It has be pandering to religious minorities for a long time. If you aren;t aware of this you have not business commenting on India

all this law does is make life easier religious minorities from east and west pakistan to get citizenship.

It doesn't create additional hurdles for anyone

 

[CricketCartoons]

Yes. becos, It was muslims led by jinnah who declared muslims and hindus can't live together and violently agitated to create east pakistan and west pakistan.

So If those muslims don't like their islamic nation, too bad.


guess you have not clue.

India hs never been a secular nation.

It has be pandering to religious minorities for a long time. If you aren;t aware of this you have not business commenting on India

all this law does is make life easier religious minorities from east and west pakistan to get citizenship.

It doesn't create additional hurdles for anyone

It creates hurdles for muslims. Muslims understand demographic dividend the best, so you may be thinking that this law helps religious minorities from PK/BD who are already living in india on humanitarian concerns, but for them any extra non muslim affects their demography project. That is why you will see all posters, no matter how intellectual or neutral they may pretend to be will only use the word non muslim for those minorities, they will never use the word minority for them. It is all about muslim and non muslim. This is the color of their prism.

 

[Hitman]

It would be great if the BJP government can throw out as much of the illegal Bangladeshis that my Ammayi Mamata has been illegally allowing into the country...

You need to visit my state to know how grave the problem is, all thanks to the Congress Govt' of the past in my state.

 

[CricketCartoons]

You need to visit my state to know how grave the problem is, all thanks to the Congress Govt' of the past in my state.

No one could conquer Assam with sword, so the plan is to conquer it with demography, aided by sickular indians who think illegal immigration is blown out of proportion, because hey this is what they say in the western countries.

 

[Hitman]

No one could conquer Assam with sword, so the plan is to conquer it with demography, aided by sickular indians who think illegal immigration is blown out of proportion, because hey this is what they say in the western countries.

Absolutely true! Lachit Borphukan is the biggest Assamese hero.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Absolutely true! Lachit Borphukan is the biggest Assamese hero.

You guys need another one.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Who is holding any grudge against Indian Muslims?

This law has nothing to do with Indian citizens.

Article 370 removed. You cried. Your PM was daily ranting on twitter.

Ram Mandir built, you cried. Your government gave official statements against it.

CAA notified, you are crying here.

Please stop crying. It has been 75 years. You have a country, worry about it and not about what happens in India.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Who is holding any grudge against Indian Muslims?

This law has nothing to do with Indian citizens.

Article 370 removed. You cried. Your PM was daily ranting on twitter.

Ram Mandir built, you cried. Your government gave official statements against it.

CAA notified, you are crying here.

Please stop crying. It has been 75 years. You have a country, worry about it and not about what happens in India.

There will be only more interest in India, because when you have nothing positive to look forward to for your own, you spend you life seeking schadenfreude of others. This is the only source of happiness for them.

 

[rpant_gabba]

There will be only more interest in India, because when you have nothing positive to look forward to for your own, you spend you life seeking schadenfreude of others. This is the only source of happiness for them.

Brutal fact they will attack you for stating it.

 

[BouncerGuy]

No need to indulge in any personal attacks. Please stay on topic.

 

[Hitman]

Pakistan too can take a leaf out of India's book and open their doors for 'persecuted' minorities in India.

 

[globetrotter]

As usual Indian opposition parties started misleading the ppls… West Bengal and Kerala says their states will not implement CAA.. they are misleading ppls as there is no power for states as central government hold power to grant citizenship.

Kejriwal said after implementation 1 to 1.5 crores will come to India who will give jobs for them?… nothing like this gonna happen as the migrants living in India since 90s will get citizenship

And why Kejriwal is worrying? The person who provides free electricity to 2.5 crores (as per their party’s manifesto) can’t provide free jobs?

Owaisi said now Muslims will be asked to show documents and their citizenship in danger…. Nothing like this going to happened but these leaders are on GAS because government may ask papers from illegal migrants living in India

 

[cricketjoshila]

Pakistan too can take a leaf out of India's book and open their doors for 'persecuted' minorities in India.

If only they would.

 

[Cover Drive Six]

You lot know Exactly why Pakistan has kicked the terrorist sympathiser afghanis out..lol

That's poor coming from you, generalizing all people as terrorist sympathizers.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I haven't been able to read all of this thread since the most recent updates, just wondering, is this generally considered as a move designed to enable and finally implement a hindu rashtra?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Most of my posts are on cricket or on threads about India.

I wonder why do so many threads about India exist on a Pakistani forum? Threads about our laws, our politics, everything.

Thick skin? You think that the opinion of pakistanis going to affect India?

I don't think India is in any race to qualify for any refugee in take competition. We are not a signatory to the refugees convention.

Its absolutely necessary to not let people who once divided the country on the basis of religion back into the country. You took your country in 1947, you are no more welcome here.

Non Muslims in those areas became second class citizens. Hence these persecuted people to be given an opportunity to get Indian citizenship.

Why do you even care? Do you think superpowers like USA worry about what is going on in Colombia or Venezuela?

 

[Stewie]

Can I land up in any country and claim citizenship without having any proof of it?

Way off mark again. You are kind of slow on the uptake aren’t you? That’s ok, there is always a few in every family.

The concern is not about people flying in or crossing the border. You still seem to believe India is the new US… keep dreaming. The influx of people coming in very very minuscule. You can drink the modi kool aid by buckets, that won’t change.

We have already established this is primarily for the optics. The concern was about the Muslims living in India who may not have any documents or old documentation that’s hard to prove. Someone here said that’s not possible and if it is not, great!
But I have tons of Indian Muslim friends and they all believe there are still a lot of Muslims in areas where they don’t have proper documentation to prove they are Indians. They are not people just flying in from anywhere. They are Indians. Without proper documentation it will be easier for the Indian government to declare them non Indians and snatch their lands and properties.

If you feel that’s not that case, good for you and I hope you are right. Once again personally I don’t care what India does as long as they don’t parade around here masquerading as secular nation. That myth is also busted now thanks to some other of your ilk outright saying India was not a secular state. All well in good.

The truth is finally coming out and I’m glad even the Indians are finally embracing their Hindu statehood status rather than a secular democracy. Round of applause for you guys!

 

[Red-Indian]

I have to say this is not going to be an easy act to implement. While some of the more stringent rules have been relaxed, applicants still have to prove 2 things

- That they are from a neighboring country - some form of ID (even if it's expired) issued by their home country should be able to prove that
- That they've been in India since 2014. This is the trickier one since they have to have some proof of the duration. Most of these like Aadhaar, ration card etc. would be difficult for an alien who's been living under the radar. Maybe a letter of some kind or affidavit from an elected representative like the MLA/Sarpanch etc.?

All in all, for all the noise, I'd be surprised if more than a few thousand people are able to take advantage. More pandering and signaling than anything else. I think the significance is more in the symbolism. For the first time in Independant India, we have introduced a religious test for citizenship.

The other piece - NRC is a non starter.

 

[Stewie]

I have to say this is not going to be an easy act to implement. While some of the more stringent rules have been relaxed, applicants still have to prove 2 things

- That they are from a neighboring country - some form of ID (even if it's expired) issued by their home country should be able to prove that
- That they've been in India since 2014. This is the trickier one since they have to have some proof of the duration. Most of these like Aadhaar, ration card etc. would be difficult for an alien who's been living under the radar. Maybe a letter of some kind or affidavit from an elected representative like the MLA/Sarpanch etc.?

All in all, for all the noise, I'd be surprised if more than a few thousand people are able to take advantage. More pandering and signaling than anything else. I think the significance is more in the symbolism. For the first time in Independant India, we have introduced a religious test for citizenship.

The other piece - NRC is a non starter.

You are probably the most reasonable and sensible Indian poster I have seen here lately.

Some of your countrymen have countered India was never a secular state so this act makes sense. Do you agree with that assessment?

 

[Cover Drive Six]

Pakistan too can take a leaf out of India's book and open their doors for 'persecuted' minorities in India.

You are expecting too much. Pakistan just kicked out Afghan refugees who were living there for decades.

In 1947, when India was partitioned, the Hindu population in Pakistan was about 24%. Today it is not even 2%.
In 1947, the Hindu population in East Pakistan (now Bangladesh) was 30%. Today it is about 7%. Probably even less.

In contrast, in India, Muslim population has gone up from 9% in 1951 to more than 15% today.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Why do you even care? Do you think superpowers like USA worry about what is going on in Colombia or Venezuela?

Do we look like we care?

 

[cricketjoshila]

I have to say this is not going to be an easy act to implement. While some of the more stringent rules have been relaxed, applicants still have to prove 2 things

- That they are from a neighboring country - some form of ID (even if it's expired) issued by their home country should be able to prove that
- That they've been in India since 2014. This is the trickier one since they have to have some proof of the duration. Most of these like Aadhaar, ration card etc. would be difficult for an alien who's been living under the radar. Maybe a letter of some kind or affidavit from an elected representative like the MLA/Sarpanch etc.?

All in all, for all the noise, I'd be surprised if more than a few thousand people are able to take advantage. More pandering and signaling than anything else. I think the significance is more in the symbolism. For the first time in Independant India, we have introduced a religious test for citizenship.

The other piece - NRC is a non starter.

NRC has already happened in Assam.

 

[Red-Indian]

I haven't been able to read all of this thread since the most recent updates, just wondering, is this generally considered as a move designed to enable and finally implement a hindu rashtra?

You are probably the most reasonable and sensible Indian poster I have seen here lately.

Some of your countrymen have countered India was never a secular state so this act makes sense. Do you agree with that assessment?

I think there are some elements of that. But symbolic rather than anything practical. I've detailed in my post above how this act is unlikely to impact more than a few thousand people.

Unlike Pakistan, India's always tried to at least maintain the veneer of secularism. To the disgust of the Hindu religious right, there have always been some laws that favour minorities whether religious (Wakf laws) or community (Dalit reservations) but never a law that actually favoured the majority.

This veneer is slowly cracking now. With the State actually being a party pleading FOR the Ayodhya temple in court, or this law. But before guys like you start gloating, these are still only cracks

- In 10 years of BJP government, for all their rhetoric, a majority BJP government has been able to build 1 (ONE) temple by demolishing a minority place of worship
- Even this CAA act had to be camouflaged by covering all minorities rather just come out and say Hindus welcome like Israel says

India is a truly democratic country and decisions and changes take a long time to make. Guys like Cricket Cartoon and cricketjoshila are pushing towards the Hindu Rashtra. Lots of folks - actively in some cases and passively like me are pushing back. The momentum and national mood is definitely with them but it'll take a long, long time to completely switch. Plus if they push too hard, they risk alienating the Southern states who don't really care about this subject at all.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Way off mark again. You are kind of slow on the uptake aren’t you? That’s ok, there is always a few in every family.

The concern is not about people flying in or crossing the border. You still seem to believe India is the new US… keep dreaming. The influx of people coming in very very minuscule. You can drink the modi kool aid by buckets, that won’t change.

We have already established this is primarily for the optics. The concern was about the Muslims living in India who may not have any documents or old documentation that’s hard to prove. Someone here said that’s not possible and if it is not, great!
But I have tons of Indian Muslim friends and they all believe there are still a lot of Muslims in areas where they don’t have proper documentation to prove they are Indians. They are not people just flying in from anywhere. They are Indians. Without proper documentation it will be easier for the Indian government to declare them non Indians and snatch their lands and properties.

If you feel that’s not that case, good for you and I hope you are right. Once again personally I don’t care what India does as long as they don’t parade around here masquerading as secular nation. That myth is also busted now thanks to some other of your ilk outright saying India was not a secular state. All well in good.

The truth is finally coming out and I’m glad even the Indians are finally embracing their Hindu statehood status rather than a secular democracy. Round of applause for you guys!

The only slow one here is you. Its quite clear with your posting. I understand the reasons for it.I understand bits not your fault. So you have my sympathy.

Since you call the numbers miniscule, why not reveal the numbers?

Where in the CAA does it ask for any proof from Any Indian citizen?

Where did you made these "tons" of Indian Muslim friends?

How is it that only Muslims will not have these documents while other communities will have documents? Are people in other communities not poor or uneducated?

What myth?

We can call ourselves anything, don't need permission from Pakistan.

 

[Stewie]

I think there are some elements of that. But symbolic rather than anything practical. I've detailed in my post above how this act is unlikely to impact more than a few thousand people.

Unlike Pakistan, India's always tried to at least maintain the veneer of secularism. To the disgust of the Hindu religious right, there have always been some laws that favour minorities whether religious (Wakf laws) or community (Dalit reservations) but never a law that actually favoured the majority.

This veneer is slowly cracking now. With the State actually being a party pleading FOR the Ayodhya temple in court, or this law. But before guys like you start gloating, these are still only cracks

- In 10 years of BJP government, for all their rhetoric, a majority BJP government has been able to build 1 (ONE) temple by demolishing a minority place of worship
- Even this CAA act had to be camouflaged by covering all minorities rather just come out and say Hindus welcome like Israel says

India is a truly democratic country and decisions and changes take a long time to make. Guys like Cricket Cartoon and cricketjoshila are pushing towards the Hindu Rashtra. Lots of folks - actively in some cases and passively like me are pushing back. The momentum and national mood is definitely with them but it'll take a long, long time to completely switch. Plus if they push too hard, they risk alienating the Southern states who don't really care about this subject at all.

Fair enough and for the record, I have held the secular ideals India has historically upheld in high regards. It’s not a gloating opportunity but more of a fact check opportunity for Indian posters if they criticize Pakistan on one hand, on the other they are vehemently arguing for India’s right to become the next Pakistan.

I find the whole stance hypocritical

 

[Stewie]

The only slow one here is you. Its quite clear with your posting. I understand the reasons for it.I understand bits not your fault. So you have my sympathy.

Since you call the numbers miniscule, why not reveal the numbers?

Where in the CAA does it ask for any proof from Any Indian citizen?

Where did you made these "tons" of Indian Muslim friends?

How is it that only Muslims will not have these documents while other communities will have documents? Are people in other communities not poor or uneducated?

What myth?

We can call ourselves anything, don't need permission from Pakistan.

It’s alright, mate. Try harder next time. If at first you fail, try and try again.

 

[Hextro]

You are expecting too much. Pakistan just kicked out Afghan refugees who were living there for decades.

Only the undocumented ones. They are told to come back to Pakistan through the proper channels.

Even then, most Pakistanis(AKA PTI supporters) are against the forceful deportation of any refugees, even if the refugees are undocumented.

Imran(voted by the people) wanted to grant Afghan refugees citizenship.

In 1947, when India was partitioned, the Hindu population in Pakistan was about 24%. Today it is not even 2%.

A single wiki search provides all the context needed about this topic.

"After partition, when the first census of Pakistan was conducted in the year 1951, It was found that the Muslim proportion in West Pakistan (contemporary Pakistan) increased from approximately 77.3 percent according to the 1941 census, to 97.1 percent as per the 1951 census; in contrast, the combined Hindu and Sikh proportion in West Pakistan (contemporary Pakistan) decreased from approximately 20.8 percent to just 1.7 percent during the same timeframe, as the 1947 Partition of India gave rise to bloody rioting and indiscriminate inter-communal killing of Hindus, Muslims, and Sikhs across the Indian subcontinent. As a result, around 7.2 million Hindus and Sikhs moved to India and 7.5 million Muslims moved to Pakistan permanently, leading to a demographic change of both nations to a certain extent."

Addressing concerns about shifting population demographics becomes complex when considering that Pakistan has seen an influx of more Muslim migrants while simultaneously experiencing fewer departures of Hindus and Sikhs.

In contrast, in India, Muslim population has gone up from 9% in 1951 to more than 15% today.

Hindu population in Pakistan

1951 - 531,131, 1.58%

2017 - 4,444,870, 2.14%

35.4% mean increase in terms of the percentage of population.

Nearly a 9* increase in total population. Almost 9% of Sindh's population is Hindu.

The only unfortunate thing is that it seems most of these guys are PPP voters.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I think there are some elements of that. But symbolic rather than anything practical. I've detailed in my post above how this act is unlikely to impact more than a few thousand people.

Unlike Pakistan, India's always tried to at least maintain the veneer of secularism. To the disgust of the Hindu religious right, there have always been some laws that favour minorities whether religious (Wakf laws) or community (Dalit reservations) but never a law that actually favoured the majority.

This veneer is slowly cracking now. With the State actually being a party pleading FOR the Ayodhya temple in court, or this law. But before guys like you start gloating, these are still only cracks

- In 10 years of BJP government, for all their rhetoric, a majority BJP government has been able to build 1 (ONE) temple by demolishing a minority place of worship
- Even this CAA act had to be camouflaged by covering all minorities rather just come out and say Hindus welcome like Israel says

India is a truly democratic country and decisions and changes take a long time to make. Guys like Cricket Cartoon and cricketjoshila are pushing towards the Hindu Rashtra. Lots of folks - actively in some cases and passively like me are pushing back. The momentum and national mood is definitely with them but it'll take a long, long time to completely switch. Plus if they push too hard, they risk alienating the Southern states who don't really care about this subject at all.

Dalits are part of the Hindu community. That's why they are designated as castes.

Why should there be Wakf laws? How can a muslim board decide which property belongs to Muslims and which belongs to others? They have claimed entire villages as Wakf. They claim half of Delhi as Wakf. They took over land of Allahabad high court as Wakf.

- BJP isn't building a Hindu nation. The only thing its doing is not appeasing Muslims and not making them into a special catagory.

- Because all minorities are persecuted in our neighborhood.

- I have always said India needs uniform laws. Not specific religious community appeasement.

 

[Red-Indian]

NRC has already happened in Assam.

I'll admit I'm not too knowledgeable on that. I did read about it in the news a while ago and I just tried to find a good article about the impact but I've not been able to. I know a massive number of people(2 millionish?) were found to not be citizens. Any idea what's next?

 

[cricketjoshila]

It’s alright, mate. Try harder next time. If at first you fail, try and try again.

The only one trying propoganda is you.

You have no answers to questions:

1 Where did you make Tons of Indian Muslim friends?

2. Where does CAA asks for any thing from any existing Indian citizen?

3. How come only poor Muslims don't have documents but poor people from other communities don't have such issues?

 

[CricketCartoons]

I have to say this is not going to be an easy act to implement. While some of the more stringent rules have been relaxed, applicants still have to prove 2 things

- That they are from a neighboring country - some form of ID (even if it's expired) issued by their home country should be able to prove that
- That they've been in India since 2014. This is the trickier one since they have to have some proof of the duration. Most of these like Aadhaar, ration card etc. would be difficult for an alien who's been living under the radar. Maybe a letter of some kind or affidavit from an elected representative like the MLA/Sarpanch etc.?

All in all, for all the noise, I'd be surprised if more than a few thousand people are able to take advantage. More pandering and signaling than anything else. I think the significance is more in the symbolism. For the first time in Independant India, we have introduced a religious test for citizenship.

The other piece - NRC is a non starter.

If only a few thousand people will be able to use it, why are people especially muslims opposing it?

This law is giving religious minorities a helping hand. Too bad if you think religion does not matter. It is the single most important identity. Is it OK when the constitution uses religion to make exceptions for certain minorites, like waqf, freedom of educational and religious institutions, separate civil laws which are denied to others? And when the religious minorities happen to be non muslim, suddenly everyone starts talking of secularism? 50% reservation for muslims in jamia milia is kosher, but god forbid if the minority is a hindu refugee, then suddenly the headless chicken will start running crying death of secularism.

 

[CricketCartoons]

I'll admit I'm not too knowledgeable on that. I did read about it in the news a while ago and I just tried to find a good article about the impact but I've not been able to. I know a massive number of people(2 millionish?) were found to not be citizens. Any idea what's next?

You have the gift of making judgements with certainty on topics you are not too knowledgeable about, so let that not stop you.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Hindu population in Pakistan

1951 - 531,131, 1.58%

2017 - 4,444,870, 2.14%

35.4% mean increase in terms of the percentage of population.

Nearly a 9* increase in total population. Almost 9% of Sindh's population is Hindu.

The only unfortunate thing is that it seems most of these guys are PPP voters.

This stats falls flat if you cannot provide it for 1947. Using 1951 as base is useless.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I'll admit I'm not too knowledgeable on that. I did read about it in the news a while ago and I just tried to find a good article about the impact but I've not been able to. I know a massive number of people(2 millionish?) were found to not be citizens. Any idea what's next?

@Hitman

Can you help our friend here with Assam Accord and the NRC?

 

[Hextro]

This stats falls flat if you cannot provide it for 1947. Using 1951 as base is useless.

"After partition, when the first census of Pakistan was conducted in the year 1951, It was found that the Muslim proportion in West Pakistan (contemporary Pakistan) increased from approximately 77.3 percent according to the 1941 census, to 97.1 percent as per the 1951 census; in contrast, the combined Hindu and Sikh proportion in West Pakistan (contemporary Pakistan) decreased from approximately 20.8 percent to just 1.7 percent during the same timeframe, as the 1947 Partition of India gave rise to bloody rioting and indiscriminate inter-communal killing of Hindus, Muslims, and Sikhs across the Indian subcontinent. As a result, around 7.2 million Hindus and Sikhs moved to India and 7.5 million Muslims moved to Pakistan permanently, leading to a demographic change of both nations to a certain extent."

Try reading.

 

[Red-Indian]

You have the gift of making judgements with certainty on topics you are not too knowledgeable about, so let that not stop you.

Thanks for the permission but if there's one thing I try to avoid, it's certainty.

 

[CricketCartoons]

"After partition, when the first census of Pakistan was conducted in the year 1951, It was found that the Muslim proportion in West Pakistan (contemporary Pakistan) increased from approximately 77.3 percent according to the 1941 census, to 97.1 percent as per the 1951 census; in contrast, the combined Hindu and Sikh proportion in West Pakistan (contemporary Pakistan) decreased from approximately 20.8 percent to just 1.7 percent during the same timeframe, as the 1947 Partition of India gave rise to bloody rioting and indiscriminate inter-communal killing of Hindus, Muslims, and Sikhs across the Indian subcontinent. As a result, around 7.2 million Hindus and Sikhs moved to India and 7.5 million Muslims moved to Pakistan permanently, leading to a demographic change of both nations to a certain extent."

Try reading.

You are not proving any new information. 1951 cannot be the base year because a lot could happen between 1947 and 1951. I know it was the census year, but it cannot be the base year for comparison.

Give the whole numbers in 1947 pre partition, and then we can calculate.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Do we look like we care?

You are posting essays on here day and night. Do you really need me to answer that?

 

[CricketCartoons]

Thanks for the permission but if there's one thing I try to avoid, it's certainty.

The problem with you indians is not that you are bad, you lot are actually good people with a nice heart. The problem is that you live in an ideal world away from ground realities, and think that just because I am a vegetarian, the tiger will not eat me. You have a fond idea of india where people of all religion sing kumbaya, and that two nation theory is wrong and abnormal, while hindus and muslims living in brotherhood is absolutely normal. And that speaking something in favour of the religion you are born into makes you communal, that communal is a bad word, and that if someone from your family is fighting with someone else, you must stand with the other person to show you are unbiased. You have no idea of civilization, no idea of who is your existential enemy, no purpose of where you are going. Just living in pop culture, thinking living in the now and present is the right way and people who talk of history are idiots. You lot belong to a disney movie, not the real world.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I think there are some elements of that. But symbolic rather than anything practical. I've detailed in my post above how this act is unlikely to impact more than a few thousand people.

Unlike Pakistan, India's always tried to at least maintain the veneer of secularism. To the disgust of the Hindu religious right, there have always been some laws that favour minorities whether religious (Wakf laws) or community (Dalit reservations) but never a law that actually favoured the majority.

This veneer is slowly cracking now. With the State actually being a party pleading FOR the Ayodhya temple in court, or this law. But before guys like you start gloating, these are still only cracks

- In 10 years of BJP government, for all their rhetoric, a majority BJP government has been able to build 1 (ONE) temple by demolishing a minority place of worship
- Even this CAA act had to be camouflaged by covering all minorities rather just come out and say Hindus welcome like Israel says

India is a truly democratic country and decisions and changes take a long time to make. Guys like Cricket Cartoon and cricketjoshila are pushing towards the Hindu Rashtra. Lots of folks - actively in some cases and passively like me are pushing back. The momentum and national mood is definitely with them but it'll take a long, long time to completely switch. Plus if they push too hard, they risk alienating the Southern states who don't really care about this subject at all.

I read these figures of only 39% of Indians voted for BJP, but then I figure that's a fair chunk of the population considering 200m+ in the country will be Muslims, and there must be a decent wedge of other minorities as well. So that tells me that a very significant number of hindus are voting BJP and the direction is only going one way.

While I'm sure there will be secular Indians who might be alarmed at this, I just wonder if the damage will be done before you can turn back. These things have a momentum of their own, once you allow the theologians a foot in the door, they will use that same yearning for hindu power to make more demands and more censorship. You will have the hindu version of the Taliban running govt and that's when we get to see the long term impact.