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Ravindra Jadeja vs Moeen Ali : Who is the better all-rounder?

Moeen is the far superior Test Bat. Jadeja is the better bowler. overall id say Moeen is the better all rounder.
 
Overall, Ali and it's not even close.

Jadeja is the better bowler though.
 
I hope this turns out like one of those Umar Akmal Vs "Player X" threads.. :uakmal ..

Go Jaddu.. !!!

PS:Is there a Jaddu smiley here ?
 
Jaddu visited Pakpassion.

Saw this thread.

The rest is history.

Love the way he is batting with purpose these days. Barring the charge down the ground shot where he goes for six/gets out...there is a method to his batting in the last 2 tests which he lacked in the past (or didn't use much to be precise).

If he continues at this rate, he will be a very very useful AR in Asia.

Moeen Ali seems bits and pieces in Asia though he is a useful AR outside Asia. Lots of chinks in both his batting and bowling (regardless of venue) which means you will never know what to expect from him.
 
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So far this thread is comfortably going the Akmal vs Indian player comparison route. The PP reverse-jinx never fails to deliver.
 
Clearly, Jadeja is a better bowler and Ali is a better batsman. Jadeja picked up 10 wickets to change a sure draw to win for Indians. Ali doesn't have skills to do something like that so they shouldn't be compared as bowler.
 
FlickedOffHips said:
look at the other side. Jadeja has figures of a top bowler, Ali has figures of an average batsman(if you're kind).
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That comparison would be Jadeja's bowling vs Moeen's batting. Sure, Jadeja would win that.

Would you consider Wasim Akram an all-rounder? He was a top bowler and averages almost as much as Jadeja with the bat with a couple of hundreds. But he wasn't a true all-rounder. At best a bowling all-rounder, and Jadeja can be classified similarly.
 
Abdullah719 said:
One averages 42 with the ball and the other averages 26 with the bat.

Neither are all-rounders in the truest sense.
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At least Jadeja passes the all-rounder criteria of batting average being higher than bowling average. Moeen doesn't.

Jadeja needs to be more consistent with the bat. He has the potential to average in the low 30s which would be excellent for a No.8 batsman
 
Abdullah719 said:
That comparison would be Jadeja's bowling vs Moeen's batting. Sure, Jadeja would win that.

Would you consider Wasim Akram an all-rounder? He was a top bowler and averages almost as much as Jadeja with the bat with a couple of hundreds. But he wasn't a true all-rounder. At best a bowling all-rounder, and Jadeja can be classified similarly.
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yes i would. he would just make it. I would look at Jadeja the same way, although I see a lot of scope for improvement in Jadeja's batting- averages 44 in FC for example. Being very good in one department while being ok in another is enough to be counted as an all-arounder. Mooen isn't good enough at either skill to make the classification IMO. His FC stats suggest he isn't underperforming much either.
 
FlickedOffHips said:
yes i would. he would just make it. I would look at Jadeja the same way, although I see a lot of scope for improvement in Jadeja's batting- averages 44 in FC for example. Being very good in one department while being ok in another is enough to be counted as an all-arounder. Mooen isn't good enough at either skill to make the classification IMO. His FC stats suggest he isn't underperforming much either.
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OK, fair enough.

I prefer to have different classifications for all-rounders. Proper all-rounders, and batting/bowling all-rounders.

In my book, neither of Moeen or Jadeja can be called proper all-rounders.

I feel volume of runs, wickets taken per match, etc. all play a part in whether one can be defined as a complete all-rounder, though it's true that this definition of an all-rounder means that there are very few proper all-rounders.
 
Jadeja has batted well this series but I agree with Adbulla719 as well,allrounders are usually classified and for me personally only Kallis and Botham have been a perfect all rounders.

Hopefully Jadeja improves his batting and considering his fielding and bowling he could end up being amazing for us.
 
Abdullah719 said:
OK, fair enough.

I prefer to have different classifications for all-rounders. Proper all-rounders, and batting/bowling all-rounders.

In my book, neither of Moeen or Jadeja can be called proper all-rounders.

I feel volume of runs, wickets taken per match, etc. all play a part in whether one can be defined as a complete all-rounder, though it's true that this definition of an all-rounder means that there are very few proper all-rounders.
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i'm going to try and see if this works and actually put a name down for my reasoning. let's call it the 30,35 rule. you have to average 30 plus with the bat and 35- with the bowl. BUT depending on how good you are at one skill, you get allowance from the other. Akram was a genius bowler so I'm happy to accept his 22 bat average. Jadeja has very good bowling figures, enough to overcome his 26 bat average. Ali's best skill his batting- 35. not great. his bowling is pretty poor at 41, so he doesn't make the cut.
 
The number matches that jadeja has had an impact on winning them with both bat and ball especially in the last year or so, says he is better.
 
Moeen has become an batting all rounder now whereas Jadeja is a bowling all rounder, unfair comparison IMO
 
cric_fanatic said:
The number matches that jadeja has had an impact on winning them with both bat and ball especially in the last year or so, says he is better.
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Exactly! Jadeja's batting average may not be that great, but beyond the average is the fact that his batting has been critical in delivering victories to India in Lords and Mohali, and saving the game in Rajkot. Without his Rajkot batting, India may very well have lost the 1st Test and the series may have turned out differently.

While Ali's average is higher, his batting has not had the same impact.
 
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I don't know about the all-rounder but Jadeja is a better cricketer. Ali can be useful if the conditions doesn't require to play any spinner. So he's best suited to play for teams like England, I don't think any subcontinent teams will have him at the moment.
 
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Batting: Jadeja < Ali (Based purely on the numbers. And not on impact)
Bowling: Jadeja > Ali
Fielding: Jadeja > Ali

Jadeja is way better overall cricketer, considering all aspects of the game. Infact jadeja's FC batting record where he plays up the order is way better. In tests, Ali's batting numbers are far better. But i dont remember how many innings of his has created that impact to win matches. Jadeja's lower order (No.8 ***!) contributions have been so much more valuable to the team. Lets not even talk about bowling and fielding, Jadeja is in another league.
 
cric_fanatic said:
Batting: Jadeja < Ali (Based purely on the numbers. And not on impact)
Bowling: Jadeja > Ali
Fielding: Jadeja > Ali

Jadeja is way better overall cricketer, considering all aspects of the game. Infact jadeja's FC batting record where he plays up the order is way better. In tests, Ali's batting numbers are far better. But i dont remember how many innings of his has created that impact to win matches. Jadeja's lower order (No.8 ***!) contributions have been so much more valuable to the team. Lets not even talk about bowling and fielding, Jadeja is in another league.
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Ali is going to face a lot of short pitched stuff in Australia. Let's see how his batting holds up then. Given that he was so intimidated by Yadav, I am sure the the Australian pace bowlers are salivating at the thought of bowling to him.
 
Napa said:
<b>Ali is going to face a lot of short pitched stuff in Australia. Let's see how his batting holds up then. </b>Given that he was so intimidated by Yadav, I am sure the the Australian pace bowlers are salivating at the thought of bowling to him.
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As I was saying...

First ball (no run): Cummins to Ali, no run, feisty bouncer, ducks under it.

Second ball (OUT): Cummins runs in hard, hits the pitch harder, and bounces out Moeen.
 
Napa said:
As I was saying...

First ball (no run): Cummins to Ali, no run, feisty bouncer, ducks under it.

Second ball (OUT): Cummins runs in hard, hits the pitch harder, and bounces out Moeen.
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First time he's been dismissed by a pacer in this series ...
 
Bilal7 said:
First time he's been dismissed by a pacer in this series ...
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He's lacking calmness at the crease, whenever he starts an innings he's usually frantic but gets away with more often than not. Against Aus he's just lost the plot with the bat & bowl both, you can try & defend him but the fact is without Stokes or YJB he's a poor man's A/R :10:
 
Bilal7 said:
First time he's been dismissed by a pacer in this series ...
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Australian pacers have been bowling a lot of short pitched stuff at him the entire series, but he has been getting out to Lyon and not waiting to get out to the pacers.
 
Napa said:
Australian pacers have been bowling a lot of short pitched stuff at him the entire series, but he has been getting out to Lyon and not waiting to get out to the pacers.
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He's played the fast bowlers pretty well.

R0H1T said:
He's lacking calmness at the crease, whenever he starts an innings he's usually frantic but gets away with more often than not. Against Aus he's just lost the plot with the bat & bowl both, you can try & defend him but the fact is without Stokes or YJB he's a poor man's A/R :10:
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He'll bounce back.
 
Bilal7 said:
He's played the fast bowlers pretty well.
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Given that his average for the series is 21, I don't think he has played any sort of bowler well. Basically he is too soft and lacks grit. Gets intimidated by the prospect of getting hit, sort of an anti-Mohinder Amarnath.
 
Napa said:
Given that his average for the series is 21, I don't think he has played any sort of bowler well. Basically he is too soft and lacks grit. Gets intimidated by the prospect of getting hit, sort of an anti-Mohinder Amarnath.
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What you said would have merit, if he had gotten out four times to Pat Cummins, and not Nathan Lyon. As it stands, it's a lie. Mo's no chicken like a certain Suresh Raina.
 
Ali > Jadeja in both formats.

Jadeja can only take wickets if the match is being played in India/Asia. His batting is rubbish lately.
 
Balthazar said:
I don't know about the all-rounder but Jadeja is a better cricketer. Ali can be useful if the conditions doesn't require to play any spinner. So he's best suited to play for teams like England, I don't think any subcontinent teams will have him at the moment.
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Yes, any team won't consider Jadeja team is playing outside Asia. But they can consider Moeen irrespective of conditions.

So, Moeen >>> Jadu
 
Bilal7 said:
What you said would have merit, if he had gotten out four times to Pat Cummins, and not Nathan Lyon. As it stands, it's a lie. Mo's no chicken like a certain Suresh Raina.
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Because he has played the spinner worse, only means he has played the pacers relatively well. In absolute terms he has played everybody poorly.

I remember how Yadav worked him over towards the end of the England in India series and predicted that the Australians pacers would bowl a lot of short stuff at him. It needs courage to stand up to hostile short pitched bowling on wickets with a bit of bounce.
 
Napa said:
Because he has played the spinner worse, only means he has played the pacers relatively well. In absolute terms he has played everybody poorly.

I remember how Yadav worked him over towards the end of the England in India series and predicted that the Australians pacers would bowl a lot of short stuff at him. It needs courage to stand up to hostile short pitched bowling on wickets with a bit of bounce.
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Do you remember him scoring fluent, crucial half-centuries against these same Aussie bowlers in England in the last Ashes? No, of course you don't.

I've been following his batting with interest, he's played the pacers quite well but his innings have been cut short due to Lyon being on fire in the first couple of matches.
 
Hermoine Green said:
Ali > Jadeja in both formats.

Jadeja can only take wickets if the match is being played in India/Asia. His batting is rubbish lately.
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Bilal7 said:
All three formats, actually.
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The idea that Moeen is in any way better than Jadeja as a bowler is totally delusional.

Jadeja bowling avg lifetime: 23.73
Last 2 years: 23.72

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...pan;template=results;type=bowling;view=series

Moeen bowling avg lifetime: 38.25
Last 2 years: 38.32

As for Moeen being a better bowler abroad, his averages for the most recent away series (excluding Bangladesh) are 48.50 (SA), 64.90 (India) and 98.00 (Aus). Completely delusional to think he is a good bowler abroad.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...pan;template=results;type=bowling;view=series
 
Napa said:
The idea that Moeen is in any way better than Jadeja as a bowler is totally delusional.

Jadeja bowling avg lifetime: 23.73
Last 2 years: 23.72

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...pan;template=results;type=bowling;view=series

Moeen bowling avg lifetime: 38.25
Last 2 years: 38.32

As for Moeen being a better bowler abroad, his averages for the most recent away series (excluding Bangladesh) are 48.50 (SA), 64.90 (India) and 98.00 (Aus). Completely delusional to think he is a good bowler abroad.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...pan;template=results;type=bowling;view=series
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Jadeja averages 46+ with the ball in England, South Africa and New Zealand. Hasn't been considered good enough to even be tried out in Australia. He might still be a better bowler than Moeen but Moeen is by far, the better player.
 
Bilal7 said:
Do you remember him scoring fluent, crucial half-centuries against these same Aussie bowlers in England in the last Ashes? No, of course you don't.
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Took a bit of time for bowlers to figure out his weakness against the short pitched stuff. Even the Ashes series you mention, his average of 36.62 is hardly anything to get excited about. Also he was out caught 7 out of the 8 innings. Can't say for sure without more research, but it could be fending off the short ball.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...49;template=results;type=batting;view=innings
 
Just because Jadeja is beast with avg of 21 in Ind, SA, WI, PP is convinced that bowling avg of 45 is somehow better than bowling avg of 36.
 
Napa said:
The idea that Moeen is in any way better than Jadeja as a bowler is totally delusional.

Jadeja bowling avg lifetime: 23.73
Last 2 years: 23.72

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...pan;template=results;type=bowling;view=series

Moeen bowling avg lifetime: 38.25
Last 2 years: 38.32

As for Moeen being a better bowler abroad, his averages for the most recent away series (excluding Bangladesh) are 48.50 (SA), 64.90 (India) and 98.00 (Aus). Completely delusional to think he is a good bowler abroad.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...pan;template=results;type=bowling;view=series
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In Test:
Moeen Ali (Away) : 16 M, Bat av: 30, 2 100, 760 runs, 39 wickets at an avg of 46.

Both tons against India at India

Jaddu:
10 Matches, 374 runs, Bat av 25, zero ton, 34 wickets at 37 bowl avg.
Out of 34 his 13 wickets came from SL ( Very friendly spin wickets ) and his batting best is also at against SL at SL.

Don't know any one will have Jaddu if they are touring away, only delusional Indian fans will think Jaddu > Mooen in away conditions.

As an AR, Moeen > Jaddu
 
Hermoine Green said:
In Test:
Moeen Ali (Away) : 16 M, Bat av: 30, 2 100, 760 runs, 39 wickets at an avg of 46.

Both tons against India at India

Jaddu:
10 Matches, 374 runs, Bat av 25, zero ton, 34 wickets at 37 bowl avg.
Out of 34 his 13 wickets came from SL ( Very friendly spin wickets ) and his batting best is also at against SL at SL.

Don't know any one will have Jaddu if they are touring away, only delusional Indian fans will think Jaddu > Mooen in away conditions.

As an AR, Moeen > Jaddu
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And both those tons were on featherbeds, batting first. In crunch situations, like Mohali, Jadeja outbatted Moen & Ashwin in the same series, not to mention his vastly superior bowling. In tests outside Eng, on the evidence we have thus far, Jadeja beats Moen hands down! Only delusional English fans would rate Moen's bowling above Jadeja, not to mention the latter is a far superior fielder, their batting is however about par, considering Jadeja comes in at 8 or 9 usually.
 
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R0H1T said:
And both those tons were on featherbeds, batting first. In crunch situations, like Mohali, Jadeja outbatted Moen & Ashwin in the same series, not to mention his vastly superior bowling. In tests outside Eng, on the evidence we have thus far, Jadeja beats Moen hands down! Only delusional English fans would rate Moen's bowling above Jadeja, not to mention the latter is a far superior fielder, their batting is however about par, considering Jadeja comes in at 8 or 9 usually.
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And why remove Eng if we are talking about away conditions? Then remove Aus from Moeen performance and his bowling avg will become better than Jadeja.

Would love to see those evidences about which you are talking, as i can't see any in your statement. And how their batting is at par? Provide a factual proof for that.

Jaddu batting is below par while Moeen batting is pretty decent.

And you are talking about batting position, well in Test you have lots of time and overs to prove your batting ability.

And lastly, Mohali is not an away condition. If you really want to include home, then Moeen batting is miles better than Jadeja.

Jaddu can take wickets only in Asia (India and SL).

So again, only delusional fans will take Jaddu for AWAY tours.
 
Hermoine Green said:
And why remove Eng if we are talking about away conditions? Then remove Aus from Moeen performance and his bowling avg will become better than Jadeja.

Would love to see those evidences about which you are talking, as i can't see any in your statement. And how their batting is at par? Provide a factual proof for that.

Jaddu batting is below par while Moeen batting is pretty decent.

And you are talking about batting position, well in Test you have lots of time and overs to prove your batting ability.

And lastly, Mohali is not an away condition. If you really want to include home, then Moeen batting is miles better than Jadeja.

Jaddu can take wickets only in Asia (India and SL).

So again, only delusional fans will take Jaddu for AWAY tours.
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In which countries will you take Moeen over Jadeja as bowler?

Asian countries, SA, WI are automatically eliminated.

Moeen is yet to play in NZ and he is not doing well in Aus. Only place where he can be better choice as of now is Eng.
 
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Hermoine Green said:
In Test:
Moeen Ali (Away) : 16 M, Bat av: 30, 2 100, 760 runs, 39 wickets at an avg of 46.

Both tons against India at India

Jaddu:
10 Matches, 374 runs, Bat av 25, zero ton, 34 wickets at 37 bowl avg.
Out of 34 his 13 wickets came from SL ( Very friendly spin wickets ) and his batting best is also at against SL at SL.

Don't know any one will have Jaddu if they are touring away, only delusional Indian fans will think Jaddu > Mooen in away conditions.

<b>As an AR, Moeen > Jaddu</b>
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And where do you get that from? ICC ranks Jadeja as the #3 AR and Ali as the #5 AR.

Even going by your numbers, Jadeja's bowling avg is 9 better than Ali's, while Ali's batting avg is 5 better than Jadeja's.

The home and away issue was brought into this discussion by you, the OP was simply "who is the better AR?". Quite simply, Ali is incredibly crappy as a bowler in away conditions.

You should give a link to the data you present. For example, while complaining about Jadeja's performance in SL (which boosted his averages) you quite conveniently did not mention Ali's help from Bangladesh. If you omit the Bangladesh tour, Ali's bowling average abroad rises from 46 to 54:

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...art;template=results;type=bowling;view=series

Delusional is as delusion does.
 
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Hermoine Green said:
And why remove Eng if we are talking about away conditions? Then remove Aus from Moeen performance and his bowling avg will become better than Jadeja.

Would love to see those evidences about which you are talking, as i can't see any in your statement. And how their batting is at par? Provide a factual proof for that.

Jaddu batting is below par while Moeen batting is pretty decent.

And you are talking about batting position, well in Test you have lots of time and overs to prove your batting ability.

And lastly, Mohali is not an away condition. If you really want to include home, then Moeen batting is miles better than Jadeja.

Jaddu can take wickets only in Asia (India and SL).

So again, only delusional fans will take Jaddu for AWAY tours.
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Check their batting records in the last 3 years, they're avg similar even though Jadeja also has batted in that SA series or the recent one against Aus.

You don't know what you're talking about, no one from positions 7 or below has avg above 50 with a decent sample size of tests in it's 140 odd years of history! What does that tell you, if anything at all?

Who said anything about away, it was tough conditions & considering the situation, with a deficit & batting second, that 90 was worth more than any hundred Moen scored in the series. If we're talking away then his 50 at Lords is an exhibition, you'll probably have a hard time finding an equivalent innings of substance from Moen away from home.
 
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R0H1T said:
Check their batting records in the last 3 years, they're avg similar even though Jadeja also has batted in that SA series or the recent one against Aus.

You don't know what you're talking about, no one from positions 7 or below has avg above 50 with a decent sample size of tests in it's 140 odd years of history! What does that tell you, if anything at all?

Who said anything about away, it was tough conditions & considering the situation, with a deficit & batting second, that 90 was worth more than any hundred Moen scored in the series. If we're talking away then his 50 at Lords is an exhibition, you'll probably have a hard time finding an equivalent innings of substance from Moen away from home.
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Also his 32* in the second innings of the first Test of the last England in India series put an end to the small probability of England starting the series with a win.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/10732/scorecard/1034809/india-vs-england-1st-test/
 
Napa said:
And where do you get that from? ICC ranks Jadeja as the #3 AR and Ali as the #5 AR.

Even going by your numbers, Jadeja's bowling avg is 9 better than Ali's, while Ali's batting avg is 5 better than Jadeja's.

The home and away issue was brought into this discussion by you, the OP was simply "who is the better AR?". Quite simply, Ali is incredibly crappy as a bowler in away conditions.

You should give a link to the data you present. For example, while complaining about Jadeja's performance in SL (which boosted his averages) you quite conveniently did not mention Ali's help from Bangladesh. If you omit the Bangladesh tour, Ali's bowling average abroad rises from 46 to 54:

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...art;template=results;type=bowling;view=series

Delusional is as delusion does.
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Ok, fair enough. Let's talk about who is better AR irrespective of Home and Away conditions. Right?

Still Ali batting is hands down better than Jadeja, while in terms of bowling Ali can compete Jadeja.

Jaddu can only win you matches at India and SL. While Moeen has the ability to win you matches in more countries as compared to Jaddu with bowling as well as batting.

Ali is 5 MOM awards in Durban, Birmingham, Rajkot, Lord;s, Manchester

Jaddu has 6 MOM: ALL at Asia and 5 at home.

At least Ali has 1 at Durban 1 at RajKot.

MOS : Jaddu 1 : 25 Bat avg, 25 wickets at 18.56 bowl avg.

And Moeen Ali : 1 : 36 Bat avg, 25 wickets at an avg of 15.64

You can check CI for this and if you can't, i will provide you the links no worries at all.

So again, Moeen is a better batsman than Jaddu, and he can compete with Jaddu in terms of bowling.

Jaddu is just a home choice, while Moeen is dynamic who can perform in every country.

Now surely, you wont play all matches at your back yard. And if you are about to play your each and every game at ASIA then surely Jadeja (On basis of bowling) should be considered :))
 
R0H1T said:
Check their batting records in the last 3 years, they're avg similar even though Jadeja also has batted in that SA series or the recent one against Aus.

You don't know what you're talking about, no one from positions 7 or below has avg above 50 with a decent sample size of tests in it's 140 odd years of history! What does that tell you, if anything at all?

Who said anything about away, it was tough conditions & considering the situation, with a deficit & batting second, that 90 was worth more than any hundred Moen scored in the series. If we're talking away then his 50 at Lords is an exhibition, you'll probably have a hard time finding an equivalent innings of substance from Moen away from home.
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Why to pick a fraction of 3 years? Why not their whole career (so far).
 
R0H1T said:
Check their batting records in the last 3 years, they're avg similar even though Jadeja also has batted in that SA series or the recent one against Aus.

You don't know what you're talking about, no one from positions 7 or below has avg above 50 with a decent sample size of tests in it's 140 odd years of history! What does that tell you, if anything at all?

Who said anything about away, it was tough conditions & considering the situation, with a deficit & batting second, that 90 was worth more than any hundred Moen scored in the series. If we're talking away then his 50 at Lords is an exhibition, you'll probably have a hard time finding an equivalent innings of substance from Moen away from home.
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If one performance is better than whole career, then am sure you would agree that Afridi is an ATG:)

Either you talk about specific pieces, or either you talk about as a whole.

Pick one, and still i will prove that Moeen > Jadeja.
 
Hermoine Green said:
Why to pick a fraction of 3 years? Why not their whole career (so far).
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Because he;s been a regular only since late 2015, he was injured sometime during the 2014/15 Aus or WC. India also has two replacements for Jadeja, as opposed to none for Moen.

Objectively speaking, Jadeja is a better bowling A/R while Moen is a better batting A/R again looking at their current records.
 
Hermoine Green said:
If one performance is better than whole career, then am sure you would agree that Afridi is an ATG:)

Either you talk about specific pieces, or either you talk about as a whole.

Pick one, and still i will prove that Moeen > Jadeja.
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You still don't get it, Jadeja has far less tests in a longer timespan. It's because we have more options that we don't need him much away, Moen plays more tests & more regularly so it's hard to compare their purple patches as a trend or one off performance. So in case of Jadeja the last year could be his purple patch (not unlike Lyon) or what his real level is, we'll know in the next year for sure, provided he's fit.
 
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AlizeeFan said:
In which countries will you take Moeen over Jadeja as bowler?

Asian countries, SA, WI are automatically eliminated.

Moeen is yet to play in NZ and he is not doing well in Aus. Only place where he can be better choice as of now is Eng.
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If you don't know, Moeen got an MOM at Durban on the basis of his bowling.

So why automatically eliminated? :)))

I will take Moeen (AR because we are talking about AR abilities) everywhere because i need his batting ability too.

In terms of Bowling apart from SL and India, i will take Moeen.
Jadeja can perform much better than Moeen at SL and India in terms of bowling.
 
R0H1T said:
You still don't get it, Jadeja has far less tests in a longer timespan. It's because we have more options that we don't need him much away, Moen plays more tests & more regularly so it's hard to compare their purple patches as a trend or one off performance. So in case of Jadeja the last year could be his purple patch or what his real level is, we'll know in the next year for sure, provided he's fit.
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If this is the point, then it ends the discussion and we need to wait for year or 2 when we have a huge sample.

Thanks for your time though, and i hope i will bump this thread in 2019. Cheers
 
Hermoine Green said:
If you don't know, Moeen got an MOM at Durban on the basis of his bowling.

So why automatically eliminated? :)))

I will take Moeen (AR because we are talking about AR abilities) everywhere because i need his batting ability too.

In terms of Bowling apart from SL and India, i will take Moeen.
Jadeja can perform much better than Moeen at SL and India in terms of bowling.
Click to expand...
And Jadeja has a 6er at Newlands IIRC against a much better batting lineup, including Kallis/Smith/ABDV/peak Amla & Steyn on his first away tour. As compared to a Steyn/Philander less SA & injured ABDV.
Hermoine Green said:
If this is the point, then it ends the discussion and we need to wait for year or 2 when we have a huge sample.

Thanks for your time though, and i hope i will bump this thread in 2019. Cheers
Click to expand...
Not really, I'll give Moen the benefit of doubt considering Eng's a sinking ship atm. In 8 to 10 months we'll know who's better after Ind tour of Eng.
 
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Hermoine Green said:
Ok, fair enough. Let's talk about who is better AR irrespective of Home and Away conditions. Right?
Click to expand...

Wrong

Still Ali batting is hands down better than Jadeja, while in terms of bowling Ali can compete Jadeja.
Click to expand...

Ali is an absolute crap bowler, as evidenced by his current 107 avg in Australia. He got lucky against minnows like Bangladesh and a team like SA which can't play spin to save their lives. Was an embarrassment as a bowler when he visited India and averaged 64.

Basically Ali's problem as a batsman is that he is not tough, you are going to see him consistently get intimidated by pacers in the future.

Jadeja is ranked #3 AR and Ali is ranked #5 by the ICC. I am going to just leave it at that rather than discussing convoluted statistics.
 
For WACA Test, in my fantasy team, I replaced Moeen with Mitch Marsh of all people!!!!!!!

So, you know 😝
 
Napa said:
Wrong



Ali is an absolute crap bowler, as evidenced by his current 107 avg in Australia. He got lucky against minnows like Bangladesh and a team like SA which can't play spin to save their lives. Was an embarrassment as a bowler when he visited India and averaged 64.

Basically Ali's problem as a batsman is that he is not tough, you are going to see him consistently get intimidated by pacers in the future.

Jadeja is ranked #3 AR and Ali is ranked #5 by the ICC. I am going to just leave it at that rather than discussing convoluted statistics.
Click to expand...

Any player whose batting average is significantly less than their bowling average is not a true All rounder. they are bits and pieces players with once in a blue moon performance. Any good all rounder who is capable of contributing positively with both bat and ball will have positive batting average. I think Ali's batting average is 33/34 more or less similar to Ashwin

Only Shakib is a well balanced AR Today. Both Ashwin and Jadeja are match winners in Asia as bowlers and contribute positively while batting. So they are very good in their primary skill set and quite serviceable in their secondary skill set. Ali, as of now, is just serviceable with bat and ball. He certainly can become a better batsman but i really doubt he will be the AR they are making him out to be in tests. In ODI is nothing but a batsman who can bowl a bit. Players like SRT, Sehwag, Dilshan, Hafeez (even non chucking version), Malik, Mark Waugh, etc were all better bowlers than Ali. Even Stokes, with all the hype, is just now coming close to realizing his potential and has the skillet to be a real AR. So as of now it is only Shakib who is contributing positively with both bat and ball consistently followed by Ashwin and much further down Jadeja
 
Gubol123 said:
So as of now it is only Shakib who is contributing positively with both bat and ball consistently followed by Ashwin and much further down Jadeja
Click to expand...

ICC agrees with you and it has Shakib, Ashwin and Jadeja as the top 3 ARs in that order.
 
Napa said:
So what? Moeen averages 60.45 in India, Australia and South Africa.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...orderby=default;template=results;type=bowling



As Jadeja is the better bowler and Moeen is quite a crappy batsman, it must be that Moeen is a far better fielder than Jadeja :excitedtroll
Click to expand...

Yes, Moeen averages higher than Jadeja with the ball in most places, which is why Jadeja is probably the better bowler. That does not mean that Jadeja has been anything other than a HTB, however. An average of 46+ and SR of 100+ are the numbers of a failure.

As a batsman, however, Moeen has been quite good batting in the lower middle-order. He scored crucial runs in that Ashes series, which you clearly did not watch. He was caught out a few times because be was smacking their bowlers around the park. One of England's best players in that series.

Moeen has won England matches and series with both bat and ball, unlike Jadeja who is simply a bowler who bats a bit. It is clear who the better all-rounder is. Believe it or not, the gap between the two only increases in the shorter formats.
 
As Bowlers:

Moeen: 4.
Jadeja: 5.

As Batsmen:

Moeen: 6.5.
Jadeja: 2.

Moeen > Jadeja.

Moeen's highs have been fantastic but his lows are really bad. If he can learn to not be completely anonymous during his off-days, he can certainly become a great all-rounder.
 
Bilal7 said:
Yes, Moeen averages higher than Jadeja with the ball in most places, which is why Jadeja is probably the better bowler. That does not mean that Jadeja has been anything other than a HTB, however. An average of 46+ and SR of 100+ are the numbers of a failure.

As a batsman, however, Moeen has been quite good batting in the lower middle-order. He scored crucial runs in that Ashes series, which you clearly did not watch. He was caught out a few times because be was smacking their bowlers around the park. One of England's best players in that series.

Moeen has won England matches and series with both bat and ball, unlike Jadeja who is simply a bowler who bats a bit. It is clear who the better all-rounder is. Believe it or not, the gap between the two only increases in the shorter formats.
Click to expand...

You are entitled to your opinion but isn't Ali average around 55 with ball in odi and 29 with bat , to even call as a allrounder.
Only place he is cleary better than jadeja is T20 and even that by not much.
 
Bilal7 said:
As Bowlers:

Moeen: 4.
Jadeja: 5.

As Batsmen:

Moeen: 6.5.
Jadeja: 2.

Moeen > Jadeja.

Moeen's highs have been fantastic but his lows are really bad. If he can learn to not be completely anonymous during his off-days, he can certainly become a great all-rounder.
Click to expand...

If a bowler averaging 23 is rated 5, then a batsman rated 6.5 must be averaging 70 with bat.
 
Navdeep Srivastava said:
You are entitled to your opinion but isn't Ali average around 55 with ball in odi and 29 with bat , to even call as a allrounder.
Only place he is cleary better than jadeja is T20 and even that by not much.
Click to expand...

He averages 51 as bowler. His numbers are of part time bowler at best who can bit a bit.

Luckily cricketing world hasn't started rating batsmen with bowl avg 50+ as proper AR, otherwise every player of who could roll his arm would have been AR.

SRT had bowl avg of 54 in ODIs.
 
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AlizeeFan said:
He averages 51 as bowler. His numbers are of part time bowler at best who can bit a bit.

Luckily cricketing world hasn't started rating batsmen with bowl avg 50+ as proper AR, otherwise every player of who could roll his arm would have been AR.

SRT had bowl avg of 54 in ODIs.
Click to expand...

Actually players like Tendulkar and Smith have greater claim to being ARs than Ali.

Tendulkar: Tests Batting Avg 53.78 Bowling Avg 54.17 Difference -0.39

Smith: Tests Batting Avg 61.40 Bowling Avg 53.35 Difference +8.05

Ali: Tests Batting Avg 33.70 Bowling Avg 38.46 Difference -4.76

And finally:

Jadeja: Tests Batting Avg 29.40 Bowling Avg 23.73 Difference 5.67

The discussion about who is a better AR should not even be happening.
 
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Napa said:
Actually players like Tendulkar and Smith have greater claim to being ARs than Ali.

Tendulkar: Tests Batting Avg 53.78 Bowling Avg 54.17 Difference -0.39

Smith: Tests Batting Avg 61.40 Bowling Avg 53.35 Difference +8.05

Ali: Tests Batting Avg 33.70 Bowling Avg 38.46 Difference -4.76

And finally:

Jadeja: Tests Batting Avg 23.73 Bowling Avg 29.40 Difference 5.67

The discussion about who is a better AR should not even be happening.
Click to expand...

and Shakib a true allrounder

Batting average 40.38 and bowling average 32.37 - +8

Ashwin is not far behind either
Batting average 31.3 and bowling average 25.44 - +5.85
 
Bilal7 said:
As Bowlers:

Moeen: 4.
Jadeja: 5.

As Batsmen:

Moeen: 6.5.
Jadeja: 2.

Moeen > Jadeja.

Moeen's highs have been fantastic but his lows are really bad. If he can learn to not be completely anonymous during his off-days, he can certainly become a great all-rounder.
Click to expand...

Navdeep Srivastava said:
You are entitled to your opinion but isn't Ali average around 55 with ball in odi and 29 with bat , to even call as a allrounder.
Only place he is cleary better than jadeja is T20 and even that by not much.
Click to expand...

So Ali's batting avg is 4.30 more than Jadeja's and that makes Ali a 6.5 and Jadeja a 2.

On the other hand, Jadeja's 14.73 advantage over Ali in bowling only makes him a 5 whereas Ali is a 4.

March 27, 2017: Jadeja churned out a memorable performance with both bat and ball, helping India take a commanding position in the deciding Test of the Border-Gavaskar Trophy between India and Australia, which is currently tied at 1-1.

Not only did Jadeja score a crucial half century in India’s first innings, but he also took three wickets on Monday, to help India wrap-up Australia’s second innings quickly...

Jadeja is the number three all-rounder in Test cricket, at the moment, and for good reason too. The 28-year-old became the third cricketer ever, to score 500 or more runs, and take 50 or more wickets in a single season. Jadeja finds himself in the company of cricketing legends like Kapil Dev and Mitchell Johnson, with this record.

Just in case you were not too convinced by Jadeja’s batting abilities, the southpaw has notched-up a bit of a batting record for himself as well. In fact, he has crossed the 50-run mark six times this season, which takes him to joint second in this category, along with top-order batsman Cheteshwar Pujara.

He clinched another record by hitting 21 sixes this season. The previous record for the most number of Test sixes hit by an Indian in a season was held by another spinner – Harbhajan Singh.
Click to expand...

http://www.deccanchronicle.com/spor...mashes-records-galore-in-dharamsala-test.html
 
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Napa said:
Actually players like Tendulkar and Smith have greater claim to being ARs than Ali.

Tendulkar: Tests Batting Avg 53.78 Bowling Avg 54.17 Difference -0.39

Smith: Tests Batting Avg 61.40 Bowling Avg 53.35 Difference +8.05

Ali: Tests Batting Avg 33.70 Bowling Avg 38.46 Difference -4.76

And finally:

Jadeja: Tests Batting Avg 23.73 Bowling Avg 29.40 Difference 5.67

The discussion about who is a better AR should not even be happening.
Click to expand...

and it is not Ali has struggled to replicate his allround prowess at International level. He averages 40 and 46 in FC and List A. So he is a good pretty average/decent bowler. If he were a great middle order bat like Barristow then he would have been invaluable. As of now he is a test material only because of England's obsessions with bits and pieces players and lack of spinners in county circuit. He won't make into any top 5 team either as a batsman or as a bowler. Any decent allrounder will be a sure shot selection in his primary skillset and handy contributor with his secondary skillset. Ali, at best, is a handy contributor in both skill

This does not mean he cannot improve or contribute. He has probably the best FC setup in the world along with great coaches who will support him. England also play a lot of test matches. So he can certainly end up with 300+ wickets and 5000+ runs. But his impact will be limited.
 
Justice hasn't been done to beard. He is pretty much made to bat anywhere at any position in the England batting, which is hurting his numbers with the bat.

The guy has got 5 hundreds and 5 fi-fers in 54 tests and hasn't done much of minnow bashing either. A future England great for me.
 
Jadeja is a hack, Mo just won a series for his country in Asia. When has Jadeja done something similar in non-asian conditions,
 
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