Adil_94
ODI Debutant
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2014
- Runs
- 12,557
Moeen is the far superior Test Bat. Jadeja is the better bowler. overall id say Moeen is the better all rounder.
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One is a real all-arounder, the other isn't. Take your pick
One averages 42 with the ball and the other averages 26 with the bat.
Neither are all-rounders in the truest sense.
look at the other side. Jadeja has figures of a top bowler, Ali has figures of an average batsman(if you're kind).
One averages 42 with the ball and the other averages 26 with the bat.
Neither are all-rounders in the truest sense.
That comparison would be Jadeja's bowling vs Moeen's batting. Sure, Jadeja would win that.
Would you consider Wasim Akram an all-rounder? He was a top bowler and averages almost as much as Jadeja with the bat with a couple of hundreds. But he wasn't a true all-rounder. At best a bowling all-rounder, and Jadeja can be classified similarly.
yes i would. he would just make it. I would look at Jadeja the same way, although I see a lot of scope for improvement in Jadeja's batting- averages 44 in FC for example. Being very good in one department while being ok in another is enough to be counted as an all-arounder. Mooen isn't good enough at either skill to make the classification IMO. His FC stats suggest he isn't underperforming much either.
OK, fair enough.
I prefer to have different classifications for all-rounders. Proper all-rounders, and batting/bowling all-rounders.
In my book, neither of Moeen or Jadeja can be called proper all-rounders.
I feel volume of runs, wickets taken per match, etc. all play a part in whether one can be defined as a complete all-rounder, though it's true that this definition of an all-rounder means that there are very few proper all-rounders.
One is a real all-arounder, the other isn't. Take your pick
Honestly I don't know which one you are considering the real all rounder here
So far this thread is comfortably going the Akmal vs Indian player comparison route. The PP reverse-jinx never fails to deliver.
The number matches that jadeja has had an impact on winning them with both bat and ball especially in the last year or so, says he is better.
Batting: Jadeja < Ali (Based purely on the numbers. And not on impact)
Bowling: Jadeja > Ali
Fielding: Jadeja > Ali
Jadeja is way better overall cricketer, considering all aspects of the game. Infact jadeja's FC batting record where he plays up the order is way better. In tests, Ali's batting numbers are far better. But i dont remember how many innings of his has created that impact to win matches. Jadeja's lower order (No.8 ***!) contributions have been so much more valuable to the team. Lets not even talk about bowling and fielding, Jadeja is in another league.
<b>Ali is going to face a lot of short pitched stuff in Australia. Let's see how his batting holds up then. </b>Given that he was so intimidated by Yadav, I am sure the the Australian pace bowlers are salivating at the thought of bowling to him.
As I was saying...
First ball (no run): Cummins to Ali, no run, feisty bouncer, ducks under it.
Second ball (OUT): Cummins runs in hard, hits the pitch harder, and bounces out Moeen.
He's lacking calmness at the crease, whenever he starts an innings he's usually frantic but gets away with more often than not. Against Aus he's just lost the plot with the bat & bowl both, you can try & defend him but the fact is without Stokes or YJB he's a poor man's A/RFirst time he's been dismissed by a pacer in this series ...
First time he's been dismissed by a pacer in this series ...
Australian pacers have been bowling a lot of short pitched stuff at him the entire series, but he has been getting out to Lyon and not waiting to get out to the pacers.
He's lacking calmness at the crease, whenever he starts an innings he's usually frantic but gets away with more often than not. Against Aus he's just lost the plot with the bat & bowl both, you can try & defend him but the fact is without Stokes or YJB he's a poor man's A/R![]()
He's played the fast bowlers pretty well.
Given that his average for the series is 21, I don't think he has played any sort of bowler well. Basically he is too soft and lacks grit. Gets intimidated by the prospect of getting hit, sort of an anti-Mohinder Amarnath.
I don't know about the all-rounder but Jadeja is a better cricketer. Ali can be useful if the conditions doesn't require to play any spinner. So he's best suited to play for teams like England, I don't think any subcontinent teams will have him at the moment.
Ali > Jadeja in both formats.
Jadeja can only take wickets if the match is being played in India/Asia. His batting is rubbish lately.
What you said would have merit, if he had gotten out four times to Pat Cummins, and not Nathan Lyon. As it stands, it's a lie. Mo's no chicken like a certain Suresh Raina.
Because he has played the spinner worse, only means he has played the pacers relatively well. In absolute terms he has played everybody poorly.
I remember how Yadav worked him over towards the end of the England in India series and predicted that the Australians pacers would bowl a lot of short stuff at him. It needs courage to stand up to hostile short pitched bowling on wickets with a bit of bounce.
Ali > Jadeja in both formats.
Jadeja can only take wickets if the match is being played in India/Asia. His batting is rubbish lately.
All three formats, actually.
The idea that Moeen is in any way better than Jadeja as a bowler is totally delusional.
Jadeja bowling avg lifetime: 23.73
Last 2 years: 23.72
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...pan;template=results;type=bowling;view=series
Moeen bowling avg lifetime: 38.25
Last 2 years: 38.32
As for Moeen being a better bowler abroad, his averages for the most recent away series (excluding Bangladesh) are 48.50 (SA), 64.90 (India) and 98.00 (Aus). Completely delusional to think he is a good bowler abroad.
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...pan;template=results;type=bowling;view=series
Do you remember him scoring fluent, crucial half-centuries against these same Aussie bowlers in England in the last Ashes? No, of course you don't.
Jadeja averages 46+ with the ball in England, South Africa and New Zealand.
He might still be a better bowler than Moeen but Moeen is by far, the better player.
The idea that Moeen is in any way better than Jadeja as a bowler is totally delusional.
Jadeja bowling avg lifetime: 23.73
Last 2 years: 23.72
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...pan;template=results;type=bowling;view=series
Moeen bowling avg lifetime: 38.25
Last 2 years: 38.32
As for Moeen being a better bowler abroad, his averages for the most recent away series (excluding Bangladesh) are 48.50 (SA), 64.90 (India) and 98.00 (Aus). Completely delusional to think he is a good bowler abroad.
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...pan;template=results;type=bowling;view=series
So what? Moeen averages 60.45 in India, Australia and South Africa.
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...orderby=default;template=results;type=bowling
As Jadeja is the better bowler and Moeen is quite a crappy batsman, it must be that Moeen is a far better fielder than Jadeja![]()
And both those tons were on featherbeds, batting first. In crunch situations, like Mohali, Jadeja outbatted Moen & Ashwin in the same series, not to mention his vastly superior bowling. In tests outside Eng, on the evidence we have thus far, Jadeja beats Moen hands down! Only delusional English fans would rate Moen's bowling above Jadeja, not to mention the latter is a far superior fielder, their batting is however about par, considering Jadeja comes in at 8 or 9 usually.In Test:
Moeen Ali (Away) : 16 M, Bat av: 30, 2 100, 760 runs, 39 wickets at an avg of 46.
Both tons against India at India
Jaddu:
10 Matches, 374 runs, Bat av 25, zero ton, 34 wickets at 37 bowl avg.
Out of 34 his 13 wickets came from SL ( Very friendly spin wickets ) and his batting best is also at against SL at SL.
Don't know any one will have Jaddu if they are touring away, only delusional Indian fans will think Jaddu > Mooen in away conditions.
As an AR, Moeen > Jaddu
And both those tons were on featherbeds, batting first. In crunch situations, like Mohali, Jadeja outbatted Moen & Ashwin in the same series, not to mention his vastly superior bowling. In tests outside Eng, on the evidence we have thus far, Jadeja beats Moen hands down! Only delusional English fans would rate Moen's bowling above Jadeja, not to mention the latter is a far superior fielder, their batting is however about par, considering Jadeja comes in at 8 or 9 usually.
And why remove Eng if we are talking about away conditions? Then remove Aus from Moeen performance and his bowling avg will become better than Jadeja.
Would love to see those evidences about which you are talking, as i can't see any in your statement. And how their batting is at par? Provide a factual proof for that.
Jaddu batting is below par while Moeen batting is pretty decent.
And you are talking about batting position, well in Test you have lots of time and overs to prove your batting ability.
And lastly, Mohali is not an away condition. If you really want to include home, then Moeen batting is miles better than Jadeja.
Jaddu can take wickets only in Asia (India and SL).
So again, only delusional fans will take Jaddu for AWAY tours.
In Test:
Moeen Ali (Away) : 16 M, Bat av: 30, 2 100, 760 runs, 39 wickets at an avg of 46.
Both tons against India at India
Jaddu:
10 Matches, 374 runs, Bat av 25, zero ton, 34 wickets at 37 bowl avg.
Out of 34 his 13 wickets came from SL ( Very friendly spin wickets ) and his batting best is also at against SL at SL.
Don't know any one will have Jaddu if they are touring away, only delusional Indian fans will think Jaddu > Mooen in away conditions.
<b>As an AR, Moeen > Jaddu</b>
In which countries will you take Moeen over Jadeja as bowler?
Check their batting records in the last 3 years, they're avg similar even though Jadeja also has batted in that SA series or the recent one against Aus.And why remove Eng if we are talking about away conditions? Then remove Aus from Moeen performance and his bowling avg will become better than Jadeja.
Would love to see those evidences about which you are talking, as i can't see any in your statement. And how their batting is at par? Provide a factual proof for that.
Jaddu batting is below par while Moeen batting is pretty decent.
And you are talking about batting position, well in Test you have lots of time and overs to prove your batting ability.
And lastly, Mohali is not an away condition. If you really want to include home, then Moeen batting is miles better than Jadeja.
Jaddu can take wickets only in Asia (India and SL).
So again, only delusional fans will take Jaddu for AWAY tours.
Check their batting records in the last 3 years, they're avg similar even though Jadeja also has batted in that SA series or the recent one against Aus.
You don't know what you're talking about, no one from positions 7 or below has avg above 50 with a decent sample size of tests in it's 140 odd years of history! What does that tell you, if anything at all?
Who said anything about away, it was tough conditions & considering the situation, with a deficit & batting second, that 90 was worth more than any hundred Moen scored in the series. If we're talking away then his 50 at Lords is an exhibition, you'll probably have a hard time finding an equivalent innings of substance from Moen away from home.
And where do you get that from? ICC ranks Jadeja as the #3 AR and Ali as the #5 AR.
Even going by your numbers, Jadeja's bowling avg is 9 better than Ali's, while Ali's batting avg is 5 better than Jadeja's.
The home and away issue was brought into this discussion by you, the OP was simply "who is the better AR?". Quite simply, Ali is incredibly crappy as a bowler in away conditions.
You should give a link to the data you present. For example, while complaining about Jadeja's performance in SL (which boosted his averages) you quite conveniently did not mention Ali's help from Bangladesh. If you omit the Bangladesh tour, Ali's bowling average abroad rises from 46 to 54:
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...art;template=results;type=bowling;view=series
Delusional is as delusion does.
Check their batting records in the last 3 years, they're avg similar even though Jadeja also has batted in that SA series or the recent one against Aus.
You don't know what you're talking about, no one from positions 7 or below has avg above 50 with a decent sample size of tests in it's 140 odd years of history! What does that tell you, if anything at all?
Who said anything about away, it was tough conditions & considering the situation, with a deficit & batting second, that 90 was worth more than any hundred Moen scored in the series. If we're talking away then his 50 at Lords is an exhibition, you'll probably have a hard time finding an equivalent innings of substance from Moen away from home.
Also his 32* in the second innings of the first Test of the last England in India series put an end to the small probability of England starting the series with a win.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/10732/scorecard/1034809/india-vs-england-1st-test/
Check their batting records in the last 3 years, they're avg similar even though Jadeja also has batted in that SA series or the recent one against Aus.
You don't know what you're talking about, no one from positions 7 or below has avg above 50 with a decent sample size of tests in it's 140 odd years of history! What does that tell you, if anything at all?
Who said anything about away, it was tough conditions & considering the situation, with a deficit & batting second, that 90 was worth more than any hundred Moen scored in the series. If we're talking away then his 50 at Lords is an exhibition, you'll probably have a hard time finding an equivalent innings of substance from Moen away from home.
Because he;s been a regular only since late 2015, he was injured sometime during the 2014/15 Aus or WC. India also has two replacements for Jadeja, as opposed to none for Moen.Why to pick a fraction of 3 years? Why not their whole career (so far).
You still don't get it, Jadeja has far less tests in a longer timespan. It's because we have more options that we don't need him much away, Moen plays more tests & more regularly so it's hard to compare their purple patches as a trend or one off performance. So in case of Jadeja the last year could be his purple patch (not unlike Lyon) or what his real level is, we'll know in the next year for sure, provided he's fit.If one performance is better than whole career, then am sure you would agree that Afridi is an ATG
Either you talk about specific pieces, or either you talk about as a whole.
Pick one, and still i will prove that Moeen > Jadeja.
In which countries will you take Moeen over Jadeja as bowler?
Asian countries, SA, WI are automatically eliminated.
Moeen is yet to play in NZ and he is not doing well in Aus. Only place where he can be better choice as of now is Eng.
You still don't get it, Jadeja has far less tests in a longer timespan. It's because we have more options that we don't need him much away, Moen plays more tests & more regularly so it's hard to compare their purple patches as a trend or one off performance. So in case of Jadeja the last year could be his purple patch or what his real level is, we'll know in the next year for sure, provided he's fit.
And Jadeja has a 6er at Newlands IIRC against a much better batting lineup, including Kallis/Smith/ABDV/peak Amla & Steyn on his first away tour. As compared to a Steyn/Philander less SA & injured ABDV.If you don't know, Moeen got an MOM at Durban on the basis of his bowling.
So why automatically eliminated?)
I will take Moeen (AR because we are talking about AR abilities) everywhere because i need his batting ability too.
In terms of Bowling apart from SL and India, i will take Moeen.
Jadeja can perform much better than Moeen at SL and India in terms of bowling.
Not really, I'll give Moen the benefit of doubt considering Eng's a sinking ship atm. In 8 to 10 months we'll know who's better after Ind tour of Eng.If this is the point, then it ends the discussion and we need to wait for year or 2 when we have a huge sample.
Thanks for your time though, and i hope i will bump this thread in 2019. Cheers
Ok, fair enough. Let's talk about who is better AR irrespective of Home and Away conditions. Right?
Still Ali batting is hands down better than Jadeja, while in terms of bowling Ali can compete Jadeja.
Wrong
Ali is an absolute crap bowler, as evidenced by his current 107 avg in Australia. He got lucky against minnows like Bangladesh and a team like SA which can't play spin to save their lives. Was an embarrassment as a bowler when he visited India and averaged 64.
Basically Ali's problem as a batsman is that he is not tough, you are going to see him consistently get intimidated by pacers in the future.
Jadeja is ranked #3 AR and Ali is ranked #5 by the ICC. I am going to just leave it at that rather than discussing convoluted statistics.
So as of now it is only Shakib who is contributing positively with both bat and ball consistently followed by Ashwin and much further down Jadeja
So what? Moeen averages 60.45 in India, Australia and South Africa.
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...orderby=default;template=results;type=bowling
As Jadeja is the better bowler and Moeen is quite a crappy batsman, it must be that Moeen is a far better fielder than Jadeja![]()
Yes, Moeen averages higher than Jadeja with the ball in most places, which is why Jadeja is probably the better bowler. That does not mean that Jadeja has been anything other than a HTB, however. An average of 46+ and SR of 100+ are the numbers of a failure.
As a batsman, however, Moeen has been quite good batting in the lower middle-order. He scored crucial runs in that Ashes series, which you clearly did not watch. He was caught out a few times because be was smacking their bowlers around the park. One of England's best players in that series.
Moeen has won England matches and series with both bat and ball, unlike Jadeja who is simply a bowler who bats a bit. It is clear who the better all-rounder is. Believe it or not, the gap between the two only increases in the shorter formats.
As Bowlers:
Moeen: 4.
Jadeja: 5.
As Batsmen:
Moeen: 6.5.
Jadeja: 2.
Moeen > Jadeja.
Moeen's highs have been fantastic but his lows are really bad. If he can learn to not be completely anonymous during his off-days, he can certainly become a great all-rounder.
You are entitled to your opinion but isn't Ali average around 55 with ball in odi and 29 with bat , to even call as a allrounder.
Only place he is cleary better than jadeja is T20 and even that by not much.
He averages 51 as bowler. His numbers are of part time bowler at best who can bit a bit.
Luckily cricketing world hasn't started rating batsmen with bowl avg 50+ as proper AR, otherwise every player of who could roll his arm would have been AR.
SRT had bowl avg of 54 in ODIs.
Actually players like Tendulkar and Smith have greater claim to being ARs than Ali.
Tendulkar: Tests Batting Avg 53.78 Bowling Avg 54.17 Difference -0.39
Smith: Tests Batting Avg 61.40 Bowling Avg 53.35 Difference +8.05
Ali: Tests Batting Avg 33.70 Bowling Avg 38.46 Difference -4.76
And finally:
Jadeja: Tests Batting Avg 23.73 Bowling Avg 29.40 Difference 5.67
The discussion about who is a better AR should not even be happening.
As Bowlers:
Moeen: 4.
Jadeja: 5.
As Batsmen:
Moeen: 6.5.
Jadeja: 2.
Moeen > Jadeja.
Moeen's highs have been fantastic but his lows are really bad. If he can learn to not be completely anonymous during his off-days, he can certainly become a great all-rounder.
You are entitled to your opinion but isn't Ali average around 55 with ball in odi and 29 with bat , to even call as a allrounder.
Only place he is cleary better than jadeja is T20 and even that by not much.
March 27, 2017: Jadeja churned out a memorable performance with both bat and ball, helping India take a commanding position in the deciding Test of the Border-Gavaskar Trophy between India and Australia, which is currently tied at 1-1.
Not only did Jadeja score a crucial half century in India’s first innings, but he also took three wickets on Monday, to help India wrap-up Australia’s second innings quickly...
Jadeja is the number three all-rounder in Test cricket, at the moment, and for good reason too. The 28-year-old became the third cricketer ever, to score 500 or more runs, and take 50 or more wickets in a single season. Jadeja finds himself in the company of cricketing legends like Kapil Dev and Mitchell Johnson, with this record.
Just in case you were not too convinced by Jadeja’s batting abilities, the southpaw has notched-up a bit of a batting record for himself as well. In fact, he has crossed the 50-run mark six times this season, which takes him to joint second in this category, along with top-order batsman Cheteshwar Pujara.
He clinched another record by hitting 21 sixes this season. The previous record for the most number of Test sixes hit by an Indian in a season was held by another spinner – Harbhajan Singh.
Actually players like Tendulkar and Smith have greater claim to being ARs than Ali.
Tendulkar: Tests Batting Avg 53.78 Bowling Avg 54.17 Difference -0.39
Smith: Tests Batting Avg 61.40 Bowling Avg 53.35 Difference +8.05
Ali: Tests Batting Avg 33.70 Bowling Avg 38.46 Difference -4.76
And finally:
Jadeja: Tests Batting Avg 23.73 Bowling Avg 29.40 Difference 5.67
The discussion about who is a better AR should not even be happening.