[Reports] UAE to be considered as co-host for the ICC Champions Trophy 2025 amidst India's travel concerns and the return of the 'Hybrid Model'

[adi_62941]

Just to clarify, nearly 6% of ICCs revenue is shared with PCB, ballpark $35 million. This is PCBs most lucrative income stream. Even if one fully believes PCBs statements, the PSL supposedly makes an annual profit of approx. $2.5 million. Chalk and cheese.

So to break ranks with the ICC and going rouge is simply unaffordable. The best answer to BCCIs arrogance is to beat them.on the field repeatedly, and tell the world they're avoiding playing Pakistan due to the fear of losing.

You are joking. Right?
Yeah we can beat them here and there in one or two matches but india is not beatable everytime. They have came out from that shell. They have become a top team like australia and england and more consistent. They are not late 90s team anymore.
In ODI and test they are unbeatable if we player our current stock of players against them as they all are fan boys of kohli, rohit, bumrah and pandya. Its men vs boys maaannn!!

 

[Energy]

When you need to pay your sports politicians and bandwagon employee loyalties in lacs, every penny counts.

So the PCB will go ahead with whatever gets them the monies.

 

[arunp]

When you need to pay your sports politicians and bandwagon employee loyalties in lacs, every penny counts.

So the PCB will go ahead with whatever gets them the monies.

No... It is because Pak economy is perilious and their ARPU is very low. Unfortunately, to quote Sidhu, the light at the end of the tunnels seems to be the incoming train.

 

[Red-Indian]

I agree. But at some point you have to take tough decisions otherwise we will make our case more weak. BCCI is playing big time with us. Atleast we can show them that we also have brain and can use it. Just forfeit the match on security reasons (we are losing to them anyways)

I sympathise. I truly do. But you've got to have an end objective in mind or else you're just cutting off your nose to spite your face.

What's the end objective here? Just making a point or finding a real way to survive without India and India ever visiting?

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

It's really funny how everyone involved is only speaking to the media through backchannels refusing to put their names out or issue a proper official statement. The closest has been Rajiv Shukla who's denied that any decision has been made.

It's an incredibly complicated decision. A replacement of India or lack of an India Pakistan game allows the TV rights to be renegotiated. This could result in a loss to international cricket of anything between $200m to $400m (my estimate). The losses will flow all the way down. The BCCI will face the biggest loss but it will go down to every small Associate country.

The big players will survive it. They have enough income from the leagues they play in. The real hit will be to the hundreds of low-level professional and semi-professionally players who depend on their share of the ICC money.

Everybody involved needs to cool down and take calm decisions. I honestly think they will. I think (and hope) there's furious negotiations going on in the background which is why nobody's willing to come out and openly say anything.

I don't care about the power politics or the financial implications. I am a fan, not an accountant. And personally speaking, I am sick and tired of hearing the same B.S again and again. Either don't award Pakistan ICC or ACC tournaments. But if you do, stop this freaking drama and get on with it. As a fan I would rather see the tournament taken out of Pakistan then be insulted by a garbage hybrid model.

 

[arunp]

I don't care about the power politics or the financial implications. I am a fan, not an accountant. And personally speaking, I am sick and tired of hearing the same B.S again and again. Either don't award Pakistan ICC or ACC tournaments. But if you do, stop this freaking drama and get on with it. As a fan I would rather see the tournament taken out of Pakistan then be insulted by a garbage hybrid model.

Agree. But then PCB also needs to not ask for CT/Asia cup.

 

[shariqnoor]

It's naive to think that Pakistan doesn't hold any bargaining chips. Without a Pakistan-India match, the tournament isn't really financially viable. No organization can run events at a loss consistently. Pakistan can and should threaten with pullouts. Doing the Asia Cup as a hybrid was a wrong decision and sets a precedent. But we all know that the PCB is a compromised organization and will probably bend over when the time comes. Just like how Sethi was showing teeth before Asia Cup but then came on television to tell how he managed to maintain hosting rights for Pakistan and how 4-5 matches in Pakistan were a victory.

 

[Local.Dada]

I don't care about the power politics or the financial implications. I am a fan, not an accountant. And personally speaking, I am sick and tired of hearing the same B.S again and again. Either don't award Pakistan ICC or ACC tournaments. But if you do, stop this freaking drama and get on with it. As a fan I would rather see the tournament taken out of Pakistan then be insulted by a garbage hybrid model.

You and me are fans so we have the easiest option to skip watching something we don’t like.

When people are dealing with millions of dollars, lot of stakes are involved so it’s not that easy to say I don’t care.

 

[sweep_shot]

I think other countries should also refuse to play in 2 different countries. Unnecessary travel.

 

[kingusama92]

It's naive to think that Pakistan doesn't hold any bargaining chips. Without a Pakistan-India match, the tournament isn't really financially viable. No organization can run events at a loss consistently. Pakistan can and should threaten with pullouts. Doing the Asia Cup as a hybrid was a wrong decision and sets a precedent. But we all know that the PCB is a compromised organization and will probably bend over when the time comes. Just like how Sethi was showing teeth before Asia Cup but then came on television to tell how he managed to maintain hosting rights for Pakistan and how 4-5 matches in Pakistan were a victory.

Yeah this is a key point.

We have seen the lengths they go to make the India-Pakistan match happen in every tournament. The idea of not having one is going to make them uneasy with a tournament that is already looked down upon. Everyone wants a piece of that revenue including the BCCI.

India's role is important but so is Pakistan's.

My guess is Pakistan is going to accept the hybrid model but ask the ICC to foot the bill for those "hybrid" matches in the UAE or SL. This way their profit margin will increase in-house as the burden of hosting is reduced by 5-6 matches.

Of course, if Pakistan just sticks to its guns then respect to them too. They would be right this time around and it will be a neat change from what they usually do.

 

[rpant_gabba]

If the PCB has a few decent negotiators, they could get the cricketing world to give them a few concessions to not make too much fuss. A triangular tournament with England or Australia involved, a couple of tours etc.

Becos ECB and Aus keen to do favors and Eng-Aus tour of Pak is a blockbuster revenue wise.

They'll extract their own concessions from India in turn

This has been PCB approach since the early 90's. look where it has gotten them

.Nobody wants this to cause a major fracture in world cricket. If everyone behaves sensibly, it can be resolved.

I for one want to see major fracture in world cricket. Its time to figure who stands where and with who and what they bring to the table.

 

[rpant_gabba]

Yeah this is a key point.

We have seen the lengths they go to make the India-Pakistan match happen in every tournament. The idea of not having one is going to make them uneasy with a tournament that is already looked down upon. Everyone wants a piece of that revenue including the BCCI.

India's role is important but so is Pakistan's.

My guess is Pakistan is going to accept the hybrid model but ask the ICC to foot the bill for those "hybrid" matches in the UAE or SL. This way their profit margin will increase in-house as the burden of hosting is reduced by 5-6 matches.

Of course, if Pakistan just sticks to its guns then respect to them too. They would be right this time around and it will be a neat change from what they usually do.

Pak had great opportunity to test this during WC23.

They choked. Why would this be different now?

Pak has gotten used to the easy money and its a tough train to get off.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Agree. But then PCB also needs to not ask for CT/Asia cup.

I think PCB should just defund the Pakistan Cricket Team and then we can stop playing international cricket altogether. I reckon that would make you happy. Because that's basically what you are saying. And all because why? Because India don't want to tour Pakistan? How about this...how about instead the BCCI just grow the f up?

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

You and me are fans so we have the easiest option to skip watching something we don’t like.

When people are dealing with millions of dollars, lot of stakes are involved so it’s not that easy to say I don’t care.

I don't care

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

It's naive to think that Pakistan doesn't hold any bargaining chips. Without a Pakistan-India match, the tournament isn't really financially viable. No organization can run events at a loss consistently. Pakistan can and should threaten with pullouts. Doing the Asia Cup as a hybrid was a wrong decision and sets a precedent. But we all know that the PCB is a compromised organization and will probably bend over when the time comes. Just like how Sethi was showing teeth before Asia Cup but then came on television to tell how he managed to maintain hosting rights for Pakistan and how 4-5 matches in Pakistan were a victory.

India- Pakistan is a marquee game but its not what makes ICC tournaments viable. Indian market which is basically 90% of ICC revenue will still be watching as long as Indian team is playing, that makes its profitable and that exists whether there is an India -Pakistan match or not.

and Indian public has somewhat moved onto other rivalries in ICC tournaments,

India-Pakistan ODI world cup match 2023 was just the 5th most viewed game on Disney+ Hotstar.

Disney+ Hotstar viewers.

• India vs Australia. ...FINAL 5.9 crore
• India vs New Zealand (semi-final) ... 5.3 crore
• India vs South Africa. ... 4.4 crore
• India vs New Zealand. ... 4.3 crore
• India vs Pakistan 3.5 crore

 

[arunp]

I think PCB should just defund the Pakistan Cricket Team and then we can stop playing international cricket altogether. I reckon that would make you happy. Because that's basically what you are saying. And all because why? Because India don't want to tour Pakistan? How about this...how about instead the BCCI just grow the f up?

I do not think I govern what PCB can or cannot do. I am just saying options of PCB are limited. Either stop playing cricket altogether or toe the line while BCCI is in a generous mood.
As things stand, India doesn't want to tour Pakistan, so it is PCB choice either hybrid or not host the tournament. IMO it would be great if India stopped playing Pakistan altogether, but my opinions do not matter to BCCI.

 

[kingusama92]

Pak had great opportunity to test this during WC23.

They choked. Why would this be different now?

Pak has gotten used to the easy money and its a tough train to get off.

My guess is the idea was to get India to come for CT 2025 while making good money?

I think this is the better opportunity to dig in.

CT 2025 is already a weaker ICC tournament with reduced revenue (in the best of circumstances). It probably won't happen but if it ever was going to, this is the time it will.

 

[arunp]

It's naive to think that Pakistan doesn't hold any bargaining chips. Without a Pakistan-India match, the tournament isn't really financially viable. No organization can run events at a loss consistently. Pakistan can and should threaten with pullouts. Doing the Asia Cup as a hybrid was a wrong decision and sets a precedent. But we all know that the PCB is a compromised organization and will probably bend over when the time comes. Just like how Sethi was showing teeth before Asia Cup but then came on television to tell how he managed to maintain hosting rights for Pakistan and how 4-5 matches in Pakistan were a victory.

I am not sure how you get the idea that the tourney is not viable financially without Pakistan. Just the broadcasting rights of IPL, where remind me again how many Pakistani players play, despite wanting to play.... Zero. yes 0, is worth $6bn +.
PCB annual budget: $54 million.

 

[oatmeal]

If PCB had financial guarantees from the government, they could really force the issue and sacrifice one tournament to force every party to confront it with real costs on the line

But I don't think the Pakistan government is in a position to give them a guarantee like that. And in any standoff, things could turn out for the better, but they could also turn worse so it's uncharted territory. Which no doubt scares PCB chiefs whose own position is tenuous

 

[Mesozoic]

Without a Pakistan-India match, the tournament isn't really financially viable.

This is just not true.

I won't even get into the why of it but..yeah not true at all.

 

[Savak]

It's naive to think that Pakistan doesn't hold any bargaining chips. Without a Pakistan-India match, the tournament isn't really financially viable. No organization can run events at a loss consistently. Pakistan can and should threaten with pullouts. Doing the Asia Cup as a hybrid was a wrong decision and sets a precedent. But we all know that the PCB is a compromised organization and will probably bend over when the time comes. Just like how Sethi was showing teeth before Asia Cup but then came on television to tell how he managed to maintain hosting rights for Pakistan and how 4-5 matches in Pakistan were a victory.

IPL has thrived without Pakistani players for 16 years. It will be no different in international cricket. India will show they will run the cricket eco system without Pakistan and everyone will make money without Pakistan.

PCB, Pakistan Cricket fans, ex players need to smell the coffee and adapt to the realities and the best compromise the PCB needs to agree to is all of India's matches in the UAE and going forward all of Pakistan's matches for WC, ICC events in India will be held outside India.

 

[rpant_gabba]

I sympathise. I truly do. But you've got to have an end objective in mind or else you're just cutting off your nose to spite your face.

What's the end objective here? Just making a point or finding a real way to survive without India and India ever visiting?

@kingusama92

good question here bro. Think PCB needs clarity and consensus on this across the political spectrum.

 

[kingusama92]

@kingusama92

good question here bro. Think PCB needs clarity and consensus on this across the political spectrum.

It is a good question.

Why wouldn't Pakistan just accept the hybrid model, rake in the cash, and get on with things?

Let's begin with the main goal.

Pakistan's actual main objective is to host a successful ICC tournament, make a profit, and continue to maintain its image as a safe place to play. Remember, they have been building up to this moment for a while by hosting various nations in bilateral tours.

They won't want this to be tarred in any way including India refusing to visit.

Regardless, the objective can be achieved with a hybrid model. Maybe not 100% how they want but it will still work out as they can show the world they hosted every other nation and completed a successful tournament.

Now why would Pakistan not accept the hybrid model? It's because they have crossed off all of the ICC requirements to host the tournament. If you consider their perspective, it's obvious they will want to host the tournament as it is planned and avoid what happened in the Asia Cup.

Let's assume they protest and say we want 100% hosting rights. Why do this?

Getting stuck in can be advantageous because they will receive something from the ICC eventually. My estimation is the PCB will refuse to pay a single penny for those hybrid games as they are not responsible for dealing with the BCCI's desires beyond keeping them safe in Lahore. They will put the entire bill on the ICC while maintaining their profits.

Of course, if the PCB feels the BCCI has been acting in bad faith (we aren't aware of past promises that were made) then it's possible they will refuse to budge. I don't think it will get to that stage but never know.

One key point is that the ICC itself has no leg to stand on because it could have gone with a co-hosted tournament. Instead, they kept a single host.

 

[gibsyhesperis]

It's naive to think that Pakistan doesn't hold any bargaining chips. Without a Pakistan-India match, the tournament isn't really financially viable. No organization can run events at a loss consistently. Pakistan can and should threaten with pullouts. Doing the Asia Cup as a hybrid was a wrong decision and sets a precedent. But we all know that the PCB is a compromised organization and will probably bend over when the time comes. Just like how Sethi was showing teeth before Asia Cup but then came on television to tell how he managed to maintain hosting rights for Pakistan and how 4-5 matches in Pakistan were a victory.

This is naive to be honest.

Basically any game involving India generates huge revenue because of the huge pull of the Indian market.

Whilst the India-Pak game is a marque event, world cricket will move on without it.

Pakistan have literally zero bargaining power

 

[uppercut]

So to break ranks with the ICC and going rouge is simply unaffordable. The best answer to BCCIs arrogance is to beat them.on the field repeatedly, and tell the world they're avoiding playing Pakistan due to the fear of losing.

How does this "fear of losing" theory work when the total number of ODI's won by Pakistan in the last 10 yrs is exactly ONE. ? In T20I thats 2. Further more pak has a WC Win/loss ratio of 1/15 and that includes much much stronger teams from the past. I suppose facts arent cconsidered when coming up with such balderdash bravado?

 

[guard]

No... It is because Pak economy is perilious and their ARPU is very low. Unfortunately, to quote Sidhu, the light at the end of the tunnels seems to be the incoming train.

Must give indians like you immense joy

 

[shaz619]

If Babar and Rizwan open, it will be another group stage exit anyway. They can shift the tournament to India after that.

 

[rpant_gabba]

It is a good question.

Why wouldn't Pakistan just accept the hybrid model, rake in the cash, and get on with things?

Let's begin with the main goal.

Pakistan's actual main objective is to host a successful ICC tournament, make a profit, and continue to maintain its image as a safe place to play. Remember, they have been building up to this moment for a while by hosting various nations in bilateral tours.

They won't want this to be tarred in any way including India refusing to visit.

Regardless, the objective can be achieved with a hybrid model. Maybe not 100% how they want but it will still work out as they can show the world they hosted every other nation and completed a successful tournament.

Now why would Pakistan not accept the hybrid model? It's because they have crossed off all of the ICC requirements to host the tournament. If you consider their perspective, it's obvious they will want to host the tournament as it is planned and avoid what happened in the Asia Cup.

Let's assume they protest and say we want 100% hosting rights. Why do this?

Getting stuck in can be advantageous because they will receive something from the ICC eventually. My estimation is the PCB will refuse to pay a single penny for those hybrid games as they are not responsible for dealing with the BCCI's desires beyond keeping them safe in Lahore. They will put the entire bill on the ICC while maintaining their profits.

Of course, if the PCB feels the BCCI has been acting in bad faith (we aren't aware of past promises that were made) then it's possible they will refuse to budge. I don't think it will get to that stage but never know.

One key point is that the ICC itself has no leg to stand on because it could have gone with a co-hosted tournament. Instead, they kept a single host.

good story.

Just a couple of weak iinks.

Not convinced PCB gets anywhere with just hosting. Its hosting with India visiting and there by forcing India's hand to to engage in bilaterals. If I can see it, there is a good chance so can BCCI and there is no way in hell BCCI is going to hand PCB that opportunity.

So PCB's realistic options are

a) host without India: My personal choice. I want see a utter breakdown at the ICC

b) Hybrid model: It will cost the ICC and board are going to be mad at PCB and BCCI. BCCI brings in the dough so there is good chance PCB is going to get the short of the stick

c) Give up hosting for a fee like in 2011.

b & c would ensure what ever credibility of PCB is gone forever

BCCI was prepared to rid themselves of PCB for good in WC23. CT25 is their next chance

 

[Vikram1989]

good story.

a) host without India: My personal choice. I want see a utter breakdown at the ICC

b) Hybrid model: It will cost the ICC and board are going to be mad at PCB and BCCI. BCCI brings in the dough so there is good chance PCB is going to get the short of the stick

c) Give up hosting for a fee like in 2011.

Am not sure of c as respectable outcome for pak, it may show all they care is money.so better to go for option A to showcase their stubbornness or b for grabbing the amount and malign bcci/india is the culprit for additional expenses and toll on other countries for travel.

 

[James]

This sounds like a farce.

Getting more and more politically charged is cricket. And the heavier and closer the involvement of ICC in a particular series or event, the more noticeable this atmosphere becomes.

Also, the gap between India / Australia / England, and the rest - in terms of resources, influence, and general clout - is growing ever larger.

In short: Not great times, for the game that we are all trying very hard still to love.

 

[sweep_shot]

This sounds like a farce.

Getting more and more politically charged is cricket. And the heavier and closer the involvement of ICC in a particular series or event, the more noticeable this atmosphere becomes.

Also, the gap between India / Australia / England, and the rest - in terms of resources, influence, and general clout - is growing ever larger.

In short: Not great times, for the game that we are all trying very hard still to love.

Exactly.

To be honest with you, cricket doesn't feel fun anymore. Everything seems excessively driven by revenue and politics. I wish cricket would go back to what it was (pre-2000 era).

 

[ramki]

Why are people assuming that there is hidden or nefarious motivations?

Neither India nor Pakistan can guarantee security for the Indian team in Pakistan. It's a high visibility target. It is extremely risky not just to the Indian team, but to the future of cricket in Pakistan. If something happens, opposition would be up in the arms against in India.

It is prudent for India to not visit.

Having said that, if hybrid or cohosting is a matter of national pride, Pak should get ICC/BCCI to withdraw India and hope the rest of the tournament is a success.

 

[rpant_gabba]

Exactly.

To be honest with you, cricket doesn't feel fun anymore. Everything seems excessively driven by revenue and politics. I wish cricket would go back to what it was (pre-2000 era).

Yup. Simply refuse to take revenue from ICC. you can go back to the pre-2000 era

 

[sweep_shot]

Yup. Simply refuse to take revenue from ICC. you can go back to the pre-2000 era

Does ICC belong to India?

Time to rename ICC to BCCICC maybe.

 

[Buzzinga]

IMO best course of action for Pakistan is to agree for Hybrid model and then forfeit the India match(group stage) prior to the scheduled date. They could kill many birds with one stone with this strategy.

1. Likely outcome of Ind-Pak is Pak loosing. They don't have an ODI or Test team to beat India. Only chance they have competing India is in T20s which they blew this year in epic manner. By forfeiting they can held their head high for standing up to BCCI and avoiding the backlash from Public and Media from humiliation of losing to the arch rivals.

2. They can have their share of revenue and avoid any action from ICC by citing the examples of Aus and Eng when these 2 teams forfeited their matches against SL in 96 WC without any consequences.

3. Surely there will be huge backlash from broadcasters but they couldn't do anything in the middle of the tournament. Ofcourse they would want some kind of documented assurance for futures tournaments so that this doesn't get repeated but thats ICC's headache.

4. If they somehow reach the KO stage despite forfeiting the Ind match, and again scheduled to play, they can play it by citing BCCI's stance on how they pick and choose when to play against Pakistan and when not.

5. By some miracle if Pakistan manages to win the CT they will be hailed as heroes to no end. There will be books and documentaries on how PCB stood up to BCCI's bully tactics and still came out as victorious. Also how they showed bigger heart by allowing the hybrid model despite being the sole host.

 

[sweep_shot]

Cricket went from being a gentlemen's sport to a toxic ghetto sport in a matter of 2 decades. This is a worse tragedy than Shakespeare's Romeo & Juliet.

ICC is missing competent leadership.

 

[uppercut]

IMO best course of action for Pakistan is to agree for Hybrid model and then forfeit the India match(group stage) prior to the scheduled date. They could kill many birds with one stone with this strategy.

1. Likely outcome of Ind-Pak is Pak loosing. They don't have an ODI or Test team to beat India. Only chance they have competing India is in T20s which they blew this year in epic manner. By forfeiting they can held their head high for standing up to BCCI and avoiding the backlash from Public and Media from humiliation of losing to the arch rivals.

2. They can have their share of revenue and avoid any action from ICC by citing the examples of Aus and Eng when these 2 teams forfeited their matches against SL in 96 WC without any consequences.

3. Surely there will be huge backlash from broadcasters but they couldn't do anything in the middle of the tournament. Ofcourse they would want some kind of documented assurance for futures tournaments so that this doesn't get repeated but thats ICC's headache.

4. If they somehow reach the KO stage despite forfeiting the Ind match, and again scheduled to play, they can play it by citing BCCI's stance on how they pick and choose when to play against Pakistan and when not.

5. By some miracle if Pakistan manages to win the CT they will be hailed as heroes to no end. There will be books and documentaries on how PCB stood up to BCCI's bully tactics and still came out as victorious. Also how they showed bigger heart by allowing the hybrid model despite being the sole host.

And then you woke up to rude realities of real life.

 

[uppercut]

Exactly.

To be honest with you, cricket doesn't feel fun anymore. Everything seems excessively driven by revenue and politics. I wish cricket would go back to what it was (pre-2000 era).

Like when Pakistan refused to tour India in the early 90s?

Talk is cheap but the facts are very real.

 

[chakdeindian]

I feel Dejavu seeing all these conversations and comments..first thing I want to clear is an ICC tournament without India is equivalent to a suicide..It will be a huge financial loss to the ICC and PCB.. hence I think there is least probability of playing CT without India..Also, PCB will be content for Hybrid model,as they will still earn shared profit by hosting India matches in UAE, only thing is the profit margin will be lesser..The maximum negotiation they can do is having all group matches and a semi match in pakistan that India is not part of. It would be more than the no of matches it hosted during Asia Cup and hence will be a good deal.. Regarding Pakistan not travelling to India for WCs, neither BCCI nor ICC going to give a damn, considering the percentage of loss is not significant compared to the profit to be earned by conducting a whole tournament in India..The last T20 wc just had one Ind vs Pak match and pak was out of the tournament for the most part..Also they know pak/PCB cannot afford to forfeit a whole tournament in India as they will loose the ICC money which will be a financial burden..and the won't be able to pay their players..So only thing Pakistan can focus is to win the upcoming ICC tournaments and increase its stocks..till then you may hear lot of chest thumping statements from PCB folks but ultimately inevitable would happen and hence brace for it..

 

[JaDed]

Cricket went from being a gentlemen's sport to a toxic ghetto sport in a matter of 2 decades. This is a worse tragedy than Shakespeare's Romeo & Juliet.

ICC is missing competent leadership.

Rofl at gentlemen’s sport, what’s next you will make non-whites grovel?

Below is your gentlemen’s sport, I’m all glad it’s not under English anymore.

https://indianexpress.com/article/sports/cricket/grovel-racist-slur-west-indies-england-1976-tour-6451079/

You clearly have no idea about pre 1993 cricket.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I do not think I govern what PCB can or cannot do. I am just saying options of PCB are limited. Either stop playing cricket altogether or toe the line while BCCI is in a generous mood.
As things stand, India doesn't want to tour Pakistan, so it is PCB choice either hybrid or not host the tournament. IMO it would be great if India stopped playing Pakistan altogether, but my opinions do not matter to BCCI.

You know I just don't get it with some of you guys. You explain the situation like you're some news reporter. Bro we know what the freaking situation is. That's not what this is about. Its about India making a mockery of the game by constantly bullying Pakistan whenever they feel like it. It has been going on for years and most of us are sick of it. Wth should we stop watching? Is this your sport? What's more surprising to me is how Indian fans toe the line knowing full well what the BCCI is doing, is completely wrong and hugely damaging to the the game

 

[JaDed]

Like when Pakistan refused to tour India in the early 90s?

Talk is cheap but the facts are very real.

He has one track mind to hate everything Indian..

 

[JaDed]

What BCCI is doing is unfair and hopefully Pakistani Establishment and GOI can come to some understanding fgs.

 

[JaDed]

Does ICC belong to India?

Time to rename ICC to BCCICC maybe.

It was called ICC even when it belonged to CA AND ECB.

 

[uppercut]

He has one track mind to hate everything Indian..

Yup and he has absolutely no qualms about it.... bindaas.

 

[uppercut]

What's more surprising to me is how Indian fans toe the line knowing full well what the BCCI is doing, is completely wrong and hugely damaging to the the game

Tell me how. Let me know if you want to venture into the politics of it on the timepass section.

 

[uppercut]

It was called ICC even when it belonged to CA AND ECB.

And the I in ICC stood for Imperial.

 

[Buzzinga]

And then you woke up to rude realities of real life.

What realities of life? I said these are the things PCB should do.

Not everybody have to be slave of BCCI.

 

[sweep_shot]

Rofl at gentlemen’s sport, what’s next you will make non-whites grovel?

Below is your gentlemen’s sport, I’m all glad it’s not under English anymore.

https://indianexpress.com/article/sports/cricket/grovel-racist-slur-west-indies-england-1976-tour-6451079/

You clearly have no idea about pre 1993 cricket.

Don't besmirch Tony Greig. He was a legend.

 

[JaDed]

Don't besmirch Tony Greig. He was a legend.

Cricket was indeed a gentleman's sport before 2000. I watch since 1997. It was lovely back then.

May ICC become competent again.

Naw legend is Viv Richards not guys like boycott and Greig, the closet racists.

Only thing good about so called “gentleman’s” era was Calypso cricket when WI made Aussies and England whine bleed and suffer.

The true shackles of CA and Ecb were broken by Great WI, the greatest team in cricket history.

 

[rpant_gabba]

Does ICC belong to India?

Time to rename ICC to BCCICC maybe.

Not sure why your are getting mad. I'm agreeing with you a lot.

Go back to 1 WC every 4 year

Let each country keeep the revenue they generate

Let them decide who they want to tour and when.

All going back to the old days

 

[jnaveen1980]

It is stalemate. BCCI is not going to back off. They just have to move on with practical solution. If it were upto me i would cancel this pointless CT. That is just me. World cup, world T20 (twice every 4 years), Plethora of leagues. WTC. Why do you need this knock out tournament for 8 teams (half of them are associate level). An associate team can easily bring them down.

 

[Red-Indian]

You know I just don't get it with some of you guys. You explain the situation like you're some news reporter. Bro we know what the freaking situation is. That's not what this is about. Its about India making a mockery of the game by constantly bullying Pakistan whenever they feel like it. It has been going on for years and most of us are sick of it. Wth should we stop watching? Is this your sport? What's more surprising to me is how Indian fans toe the line knowing full well what the BCCI is doing, is completely wrong and hugely damaging to the the game

For a mildly patriotic/nationalistic guys like me, maybe it's only on this forum but it's amusing how both countries have turned this into a major ego issue.

On the Pakistani side, it's become a major national humiliation that a country you hate, who you have banned all trade or people contact with, whose movies, television and music you don't allow to be shown in you country, won't send it's national team to play a couple of games in your nation. Why would that be as big a deal as you're making out to be? Just because you sent your team to play in the ICC World cup. That's a decision you took in your national interest to have a hope of winning the cup...not India's.

On the India side, we've made it a huge deal that the Indian cricket team (and no other sport team) cannot visit Pakistan to play a couple of games in an ICC sanctioned event. This is not a bilateral tour. Pakistan gains nothing from it since the broadcast revenues go to the ICC and are distributed in a prearranged manner that wouldn't differ even if the tournament was held in Antarctica. Only the meagre gate revenues.

No real solution but a hybrid model every time one of us hosts the event going forward.

 

[Red-Indian]

It is stalemate. BCCI is not going to back off. They just have to move on with practical solution. If it were upto me i would cancel this pointless CT. That is just me. World cup, world T20 (twice every 4 years), Plethora of leagues. WTC. Why do you need this knock out tournament for 8 teams (half of them are associate level). An associate team can easily bring them down.

It's not that easy. The terms of the current broadcast deal with Disney Star (and others) stipulate an ICC Men's tournament every year with India's participation. That's why the ICC needs this in order to live up to it's contractual obligations or it (and all the members) will lose a massive chunk of money. Maybe after this deal runs out (2025 I think), the new TV deal can focus only on the ODI and T20 World cups and see if the rarity value of the events would make up for the volume. Tough to say but I doubt it.

 

[Hitman]

Don't besmirch Tony Greig. He was a legend.

A 'legend' who was sacked as the England captain and as an England player because ...... ?

 

[uppercut]

What realities of life? I said these are the things PCB should do.

Not everybody have to be slave of BCCI.

The exact same realities that PCB found out just last year when they eat a humble pie and agreed to the hybrid model and yet showed up in India to play WC23? What happened to not Sucking up to the evil BCCI?

 

[rpant_gabba]

For a mildly patriotic/nationalistic guys like me, maybe it's only on this forum but it's amusing how both countries have turned this into a major ego issue.

On the Pakistani side, it's become a major national humiliation that a country you hate, who you have banned all trade or people contact with, whose movies, television and music you don't allow to be shown in you country, won't send it's national team to play a couple of games in your nation. Why would that be as big a deal as you're making out to be? Just because you sent your team to play in the ICC World cup. That's a decision you took in your national interest to have a hope of winning the cup...not India's.

On the India side, we've made it a huge deal that the Indian cricket team (and no other sport team) cannot visit Pakistan to play a couple of games in an ICC sanctioned event. This is not a bilateral tour. Pakistan gains nothing from it since the broadcast revenues go to the ICC and are distributed in a prearranged manner that wouldn't differ even if the tournament was held in Antarctica. Only the meagre gate revenues.

you haven't clued into the next step. It would be "If India can tour for ICC event to pakistan why not play bilaterals in pakistan?"

No real solution but a hybrid model every time one of us hosts the event going forward.

Not sure about that. ICC can survive w/o pakistan. Pak was presented this scenario in WC23 and they chose money.

Not sure why you think they will behave differently in the future.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

For a mildly patriotic/nationalistic guys like me, maybe it's only on this forum but it's amusing how both countries have turned this into a major ego issue.

On the Pakistani side, it's become a major national humiliation that a country you hate, who you have banned all trade or people contact with, whose movies, television and music you don't allow to be shown in you country, won't send it's national team to play a couple of games in your nation. Why would that be as big a deal as you're making out to be? Just because you sent your team to play in the ICC World cup. That's a decision you took in your national interest to have a hope of winning the cup...not India's.

On the India side, we've made it a huge deal that the Indian cricket team (and no other sport team) cannot visit Pakistan to play a couple of games in an ICC sanctioned event. This is not a bilateral tour. Pakistan gains nothing from it since the broadcast revenues go to the ICC and are distributed in a prearranged manner that wouldn't differ even if the tournament was held in Antarctica. Only the meagre gate revenues.

No real solution but a hybrid model every time one of us hosts the event going forward.

You're assuming all Pakistanis are the same and that is down to your ignorance not mine. I don't believe in any of that national interest nonsense and if you're a nationalist in any country in the world then I reckon you lack critical thinking skills. Because all nationalism is derived from the idea that one group of people is superior to another group of people. But the idea that bOtH sIdEs aRe wRoNg is an even bigger bunch of nonsense considering all the power rests on one side. If India wanted to end all this and just use cricket to bridge gaps and bring both countries together, they could do that. It would certainly benefit cricket for the greater good. But they don't, because they always play a zero-sum game when it comes to Pakistan.

 

[kingusama92]

good story.

Just a couple of weak iinks.

Not convinced PCB gets anywhere with just hosting. Its hosting with India visiting and there by forcing India's hand to to engage in bilaterals. If I can see it, there is a good chance so can BCCI and there is no way in hell BCCI is going to hand PCB that opportunity.

So PCB's realistic options are

a) host without India: My personal choice. I want see a utter breakdown at the ICC

b) Hybrid model: It will cost the ICC and board are going to be mad at PCB and BCCI. BCCI brings in the dough so there is good chance PCB is going to get the short of the stick

c) Give up hosting for a fee like in 2011.

b & c would ensure what ever credibility of PCB is gone forever

BCCI was prepared to rid themselves of PCB for good in WC23. CT25 is their next chance

I think just hosting the ICC tournament is a major step forward for Pakistan. The nation hasn't done it since 1996 and has also faced security turbulence where teams wouldn't visit.

Look at it from that perspective.

I understand why Indian fans will only see it from India's perspective. India is important as it will generate more revenue but I just don't think it's the sole focus for Pakistan right now.

As for the options, it will definitely be either option A or B. I don't think anyone wants option C because of what I mentioned earlier about Pakistan's desires to be a host.

 

[rpant_gabba]

You're assuming all Pakistanis are the same and that is down to your ignorance not mine. I don't believe in any of that national interest nonsense and if you're a nationalist in any country in the world then I reckon you lack critical thinking skills. Because all nationalism is derived from the idea that one group of people is superior to another group of people. But the idea that bOtH sIdEs aRe wRoNg is an even bigger bunch of nonsense considering all the power rests on one side. If India wanted to end all this and just use cricket to bridge gaps and bring both countries together, they could do that. It would certainly benefit cricket for the greater good. But they don't, because they always play a zero-sum game when it comes to Pakistan.

Yup. sure in lala land.

 

[rpant_gabba]

I think just hosting the ICC tournament is a major step forward for Pakistan. The nation hasn't done it since 1996 and has also faced security turbulence where teams wouldn't visit.

Look at it from that perspective.

I understand why Indian fans will only see it from India's perspective. India is important as it will generate more revenue but I just don't think it's the sole focus for Pakistan right now.

As for the options, it will definitely be either option A or B. I don't think anyone wants option C because of what I mentioned earlier about Pakistan's desires to be a host.

Fari post.

 

[Red-Indian]

You're assuming all Pakistanis are the same and that is down to your ignorance not mine. I don't believe in any of that national interest nonsense and if you're a nationalist in any country in the world then I reckon you lack critical thinking skills. Because all nationalism is derived from the idea that one group of people is superior to another group of people. But the idea that bOtH sIdEs aRe wRoNg is an even bigger bunch of nonsense considering all the power rests on one side. If India wanted to end all this and just use cricket to bridge gaps and bring both countries together, they could do that. It would certainly benefit cricket for the greater good. But they don't, because they always play a zero-sum game when it comes to Pakistan.

Yes this is one case where Pakistan is more in the wrong. Pakistan doesn't want any contact with India EXCEPT cricket (and a couple of other sports) and considers it a major insult that India doesn't agree with this exact approach.

Cricket is only a small symptom of a wider problem between the two countries and since it's Pakistan who banned all contact with India - trade, people to people contact, cultural exchange etc., it behoves them to make the first move - maybe trade? If India doesn't reciprocate, sure I'll agree India is more to blame.

 

[arunp]

Yes this is one case where Pakistan is more in the wrong. Pakistan doesn't want any contact with India EXCEPT cricket (and a couple of other sports) and considers it a major insult that India doesn't agree with this exact approach.

Cricket is only a small symptom of a wider problem between the two countries and since it's Pakistan who banned all contact with India - trade, people to people contact, cultural exchange etc., it behoves them to make the first move - maybe trade? If India doesn't reciprocate, sure I'll agree India is more to blame.

Why does India need to respond or reciprocate ? It is in India's interests to behave in a way that is beneficial to itself.

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

IPL has thrived without Pakistani players for 16 years. It will be no different in international cricket. India will show they will run the cricket eco system without Pakistan and everyone will make money without Pakistan.

PCB, Pakistan Cricket fans, ex players need to smell the coffee and adapt to the realities and the best compromise the PCB needs to agree to is all of India's matches in the UAE and going forward all of Pakistan's matches for WC, ICC events in India will be held outside India.

PCB tried this game in 2023, what happened?
The hard inconvenient truth is that PCB should stop trying to have some sort of parity with BCCI. The gap is way too large now. Since the IPL match fixing scandal, BCCI has been carefully cultivating an entire global ecosystem which is dependent on India. PCB simply slept through the change.

Next stage is franchise cricket, IPL teams and owners are buying and investing in all sorts of leagues creating another link between global cricket growth and India. With Indian owners, these foreign teams will also obey guidelines from India. PCB and Pakistan might find them squeezed out of that too, if worst comes to worst.

 

[BDfanforever]

If IND was never going to travel to Pak due to political differences why did they force Pak to travel to IND during CWC 2023? This would been acceptable if hybrid model was accepted during CWC 2023.

Also Aus + Eng alone has combined higher GDP than India. The tournament should still be able to produce money.

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

If IND was never going to travel to Pak due to political differences why did they force Pak to travel to IND during CWC 2023? This would been acceptable if hybrid model was accepted during CWC 2023.

Also Aus + Eng alone has combined higher GDP than India. The tournament should still be able to produce money.

How many people in Eng and Aus care about cricket?
It has been discussed and shared time and time again, Indian market contributes to 90% of ICC broadcasting revenue. No one even comes close. BCCI will get about 39% of ICC revenue share while next best is just about 6% for Eng and Aus.
There is literally no comparison.

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

If IND was never going to travel to Pak due to political differences why did they force Pak to travel to IND during CWC 2023? This would been acceptable if hybrid model was accepted during CWC 2023.

Also Aus + Eng alone has combined higher GDP than India. The tournament should still be able to produce money.

Adding, If GDP were a parameter, Pakistan is about 10 times smaller in GDP, but just about 6 times smaller in population in comparison and both our public is equally mad about cricket. BUT....

BCCI annual revenue is US$ 2 billion, while PCB annual revenue will be just about US$50 million (it was just US$30 million in 2022, I have assumed jump based on latest ICC cycle). BCCI revenue is literally 40 times than that of PCB.

 

[rpant_gabba]

If IND was never going to travel to Pak due to political differences why did they force Pak to travel to IND during CWC 2023? This would been acceptable if hybrid model was accepted during CWC 2023.

who said there was ever a deal on that? Don't make stuff up as you go along.

Pak wasn't doing India or ICC as favor. WI was ready to take Pak's place and tournament might have been better for it.

 

[Cryin Out Loud]

Cricket went from being a gentlemen's sport to …

ICC is missing competent leadership.

Hi Cricket as a gentleman’s game is is one of the most repeated and most untrue cliches of sports history. Propagated by the, at best, naive/ uninformed and at worst, deliberate exponents of untruths.

Cricket was never a gentleman’s game. Its early years were accompanied by significant gambling activity, actively supported by the dubious, if nit criminal element. Some would argue that cricket got it’s impetus in England precisely because it was so receptive, that’s right receptive, to gambling. If there were gentleman in the sport, many were gentleman gamblers.
Cricket’s development across the world in the late 19th and early 20th century was a concomitant of Empire building. It was a result of the exercise of power and colonialism; no gentility here.

For the longest time cricket was all about England and Australia games, the exclusive club of the Ashes. Hardly a collection of gentlemen across the globe.

We should all recall how ‘secondary’ nations were treated, how dismissively the largely white establishment behaved when touring their world nations like India. Where was the gentility there?

The domination of sporting nations like West Indies on the brute power of their pave bowling was and remains a glorious sight. But there were no gentleman there, nobly genius bowlers.

And let’s not forget, the West Indies domination of cricket was greatly motivated by the decades of resentment and anger as colonised nations. It was built on memories of blood and slavery, no gentile emotions here.

This is a beautiful game, we are all lovers of the grace, power, artistry, guts and talent shown by our sorting heroes.

But let’s not be fool ourselves into calling it a gentleman’s game.

It never was one.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Please grow a spine, Pakistan, and say enough is enough.

There are no real rational arguments anyway from India's side

I will call it out for exactly what it is - bullying .

We are bullying you because we can and it's in our national interest to do so

No other reason.

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

Does ICC belong to India?

Time to rename ICC to BCCICC maybe.

Let's simply go for purely proportional revenue sharing system then. Indian market ICC revenue is BCCI's and Pakistani market revenue belong to PCB.
Done. Then PCB stands completely on its own feet. or will it??

Just check the numbers brother, India generates 90% of ICC broadcasting revenue. 60% of PCB's revenue comes from ICC. In a way, Indian market provides about 54% of PCB revenue, and this is when India Pakistan dont even play each other.

PCB honchos knows this hard reality. All the bombastic statements are just for domestic Pakistani consumption.

 

[RidiculousMan]

PCB should go with the hybrid model with one caveat. That India and Pakistan should not be in one group and if they are then that game should be played in Pakistan. Same goes in the Knockouts. If India and Pakistan meet in a knockout then the game has to be played in Pakistan.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Please grow a spine, Pakistan, and say enough is enough.

There are no real rational arguments anyway from India's side

I will call it out for exactly what it is - bullying .

We are bullying you because we can and it's in our national interest to do so

No other reason.

Why is it in the national interest to not play a tournament in Pakistan? What does India gain from this exactly?

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Let's simply go for purely proportional revenue sharing system then. Indian market ICC revenue is BCCI's and Pakistani market revenue belong to PCB.
Done. Then PCB stands completely on its own feet. or will it??

Just check the numbers brother, India generates 90% of ICC broadcasting revenue. 60% of PCB's revenue comes from ICC. In a way, Indian market provides about 54% of PCB revenue, and this is when India Pakistan dont even play each other.

PCB honchos knows this hard reality. All the bombastic statements are just for domestic Pakistani consumption.

This is a silly argument tbh.

 

[Hikaru]

Will be humiliating for Pakistan to travel outside the country just to face India in a tournament they are hosting. As the most proud and jazbaati nation in South Asia, I do not see PCB bending over here. Money will come and go, but izzat is something you don't compromise with.

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

This is a silly argument tbh.

I know its silly, but PCB thinking it can take on BCCI in the current set up is just as silly. PCB has much much more to lose than BCCI by alienating itself from ICC.

 

[Devadwal]

I think other countries should also refuse to play in 2 different countries. Unnecessary travel.

Yesterday i said same thing to you so let's started from Bangladesh to boycott india hybrid model

 

[Raja111]

The BCCI has the PCB where they wanted by refusing to play against them outside of ICC events. Not playing India in bilaterals have prevented the PCB from being in a stronger financial position, as they could have absorbed the financial impact of forfeiting tournaments to make a statement. Now, they are unable to do so, which is what the BCCI wanted, In situations like this they could bully them and hit them wherever possible.

 

[iniqbal223]

PCB earns 0 net gains (revenue from (ICC + broadcast + sponsorships, etc.) - expenses) as mentioned by Ramiz Raja in 2021 ; and Pakistan Cricket Board has to rely on ICC / BCCI market to earn its any income whatsoever

So, no doubt , BCCI will dictate terms. And PCB leadership is not learning anything. I am 100% sure BCCI might have made it clear (which is their stance for over a decade now) they will NEVER travel to Pakistan for any matches there, but our chairmans (Sethi, Ramiz, Zaka, Naqvi) knowing India will not travel to Pakistan will resort to hyperboles .. We will do this, We will do that (just to make local media happy) but in the end cant do anything, because hosting tournaments are legally binding agreements (& Im sure BCCI officials are not fool enough to keep any loopholes in contract) As of today, BCCI has unlimited funding to fight legal case.. So again , good luck to moronic PCB chairman

 

[The lone Ranger]

Why is it in the national interest to not play a tournament in Pakistan? What does India gain from this exactly?

It could really be a security threat to Indian players they feel, or to show PCB where they stand , or it might serve political gain for the current government to hit Pakistan wherever they can.