I agree to all points except the last one, Malik has spent a long long time in the Pakistan side, he should be doing more than winning us 'just one game' in the away bilaterals, even in NZ he was poor, he was poor in England, he won us one match against Aus which was a chase in 48 overs of 225 (point is that knock itself was pretty average), he was poor in the Champions Trophy. For a guy who has been playing for almost 20 years, he has to be doing more than just scoring against the bottom sides and in Asia.
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I agree to all points except the last one, Malik has spent a long long time in the Pakistan side, he should be doing more than winning us 'just one game' in the away bilaterals, even in NZ he was poor, he was poor in England, he won us one match against Aus which was a chase in 48 overs of 225 (point is that knock itself was pretty average), he was poor in the Champions Trophy. For a guy who has been playing for almost 20 years, he has to be doing more than just scoring against the bottom sides and in Asia.
Black Zero
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You are wrong as I said earlier:
- Malik has a lower avg against BD if we compare his avg vs Aus. (Aus is a quality side)
- His avg vs SA is higher than his career avg. (SA is a quality side)
- He has a low avg against Kenya (not a great side)
- Malik performed well even WI was a good side
Basically, it's not about good or bad side. It's your misperception.
Black Zero
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Malik avg around 70 in Australia during recent tour.
He played 4 matches and came at #5 in all matches.
His first (it was second match of series), he came in 32nd over and scored 42* and leveled the series 1-1
Next match, Malik scored 39.
Next match Malik scored 47 (pakistan all out in 44th over )
Next match 10*
I do not see any thing wrong with the avg of 70 at #5.
And if Malik has disappointed you for not chasing 350+ while playing at #5, then I am disappointed at your understanding of sport.
He played 4 matches and came at #5 in all matches.
His first (it was second match of series), he came in 32nd over and scored 42* and leveled the series 1-1
Next match, Malik scored 39.
Next match Malik scored 47 (pakistan all out in 44th over )
Next match 10*
I do not see any thing wrong with the avg of 70 at #5.
And if Malik has disappointed you for not chasing 350+ while playing at #5, then I am disappointed at your understanding of sport.
aloo paratha
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He failed in England, but he did not fail in australia as some will try to make you believe.
He didn't play well in CT I agree, but he was unfortunate to get run out in the first match, played well until it started Raining against SA, failed against sri Lanka, didn't bat against England, and got out trying to up the run rate in the final. Not as bad as some will make you think.
Haters keep hating, Malik keeps performing.
He didn't play well in CT I agree, but he was unfortunate to get run out in the first match, played well until it started Raining against SA, failed against sri Lanka, didn't bat against England, and got out trying to up the run rate in the final. Not as bad as some will make you think.
Haters keep hating, Malik keeps performing.
Where was his century vs Australia when chasing 370,350, 260?
I am disappointed at you for makiing it more about your dear Malik than the entire team and country he plays for. The same country who's services he acquires by having a category A contract. You sound Malik did a big favor to us by making 44 at a strike rate of 60 with two dropped catches chasing 350
Black Zero
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Cause this thread is about Malik's performances.
He scored 47 at the SR of 77 (pakistan was all out so sr is irrelevant anyway ), and he was second highest scorer for Pakistan and we should never forget his batting position.
Dropped catch is debatable, but in any case, he was already in 40s.
If you are chasing 350 then do not expect #5 to make a partnership of around 250.
Unless you are living on Mars, you will know that teams have made 300+ despite being 4 down in their first 10 overs. He was playing at a strike rate of 60 for majority of his innings, and it was detrimental to our chase.
the Great Khan
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loved his 100 at lahore..great t20 innings.
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Considering the next world cup is in England, selectors should look for someone to replace him. Hammad and Talat are decent options.
aloo paratha
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Where was anybody else's? Babar was the only one and to add to it, it was a selfish effort to say the least.
Yes and so was Malik in the 4th ODI, his 44 was a selfish effort.
aloo paratha
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It's not like either of them cost us the match, we wouldn't have won either way. You're acting as if Malik is taking the pot of the next Tendulkar.
Exactly, so why are we arguing? My initial post was that Malik's performance is still way off from all the other top players in the world.
pakistanigoneaussie
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one those needs to be in the team now, batting at 6, with sarfraz at 4 ( professor being the one to get the axe)
We need firepower right now.
Haris is the replacement for Malik whenever that happens. I know plenty want him in the side now, but he isnt exactly what we need in terms of balance.
Fair enough, this is an understandable point to be annoyed about. I don't understand why either of you didn't make it clear in the first place? I've already stated my viewpoint to this.
Black Zero
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Black Zero
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Mars is still in our Solar system, and I am not so sure even about your galaxy as may be news may have not reached to you.
Breaking News:
1- Australia scored 356 runs instead of 300.
2- Pakistan lost by 86 runs and team was all out in 44th over so alleged low SR is just a moot point in this case.
3- Lastly, in case you did not notice, Malik averaged 69 in that series against Aus.
I know Malik's sponsor boy, its as if you haven't repeated this stat enough that somehow we will all forget.
Shoaib Malik's real contribution just so you don't forget :
42*, 39, 47, 10* (retired hurt) - I would hardly take a player or his stats seriously who has to cower off in the final match to remain not out, so his fans like can use that to boost his average like you do.
secondly how can someone have a series average of 69 against team, when he infact has a career average of 27 against Australia in 23 innings and a highest of 66, S/R 60.71. The most sorry excuse of defence I have seen on this forum
Some great we have on our hands here : The man has just one half century in 22 matches against Australia loooool.... Here some are comparing him to Virat Kohli, ABD, Steve Smith, Amla, Warner....
The man is not even a semi great, I bet even Afridi has better stats than those
)
The man is not even a semi great, I bet even Afridi has better stats than those
)
Greenstorm
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Actually I was considering Shadab to bat at 5 and Hammad/Talat at 6 in place of Hafeez and Malik with Sarfaraz at 4. Haris Sohail can open with Fakhar .
pakistanigoneaussie
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Don’t think they will burden Shadab that much at this stage
Sunny786
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Also to boost my point against Malik's incompetence in foreign conditions he averages 19.81 against England in 22 innings. Some great we have on our hands here
What's his average after 2015 when he turned into a beast?
pakistanigoneaussie
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In Australia : 138 runs, avg 69, strike 82
vs England 2016 : 123 runs at 30, strike rate 83, did include one innings of 77
Champions trophy 2017 - 54 runs at 18, strike 91
Yea its ridiculous not outs boosting your average getting retired hurt than comming out playing for you team. highest score was 47. I refuse this rubbish of accepting not outs to boost average sounds ridiculous when in your whole career you only managed average of 27 against them
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Not every player performs in every tournament, but if selection process is fair, he is part of the winning squad because he earned it. You have to question weather Malik made the CT team on merit or not. Similarly, you can't bring a player's 20 years career to scorn him, when he is playing exceptionally well in his last 2 years - question should be, does he make the team on merit or not.
I give 2 classic example from PAK - first one was Salim Malik, he was a passenger in 1992 WC, but Imran played him in every match because he deserved that (but didn't perform) and PAK won WC, so he is equally credited for the glory. 2nd one was Misbah Ul Haq - a lone wolf in 2013 CT, ....... but his leadership, team selection and team's results was like his batting, hope you can relate.
Your 2nd logic is that Malik should be compared to the best of the world - that's true when you judge him individually as a player and none is claiming him to be AB, Smith, Kohli or Root. He is the best middle order in PAK team and should be the first name to bat at 4/5. Your logic is like Mushi should be dropped from BD team because he isn't a match for Kok or Butler.
Malik is batting exceptionally well, for whatever scope he is given. Best education of life is that one should learn from history and examples.
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History like examples of his performance in t20 world cup 2012, Champions trophy 2013, t20 world cup 2014, Champions Trophy 2017, t20 world cup 2016. All are filled with laurels about Malik's groundbreaking performances that did his country proud.
Misbah's lone wolf in 2013 and captaincy in 2013 CT had a lot of selection issues and Malik was one of the first names to be expelled from the side after the performances he gave. Hope you learnt a bit from history too
History like examples of his performance in t20 world cup 2012, Champions trophy 2013, t20 world cup 2014, Champions Trophy 2017, t20 world cup 2016. All are filled with laurels about Malik's groundbreaking performances that did his country proud.
Misbah's lone wolf in 2013 and captaincy in 2013 CT had a lot of selection issues and Malik was one of the first names to be expelled from the side after the performances he gave. Hope you learnt a bit from history too
Are you sure he was a failure in CT 2017 or T20 WC 2016? Here we are talking about performance after his return in 2015.
Nikhil_cric
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Shobby is not the greatest player ever but at one time he was pretty good i.e. until 09 or so. Even then i thnk he would have been better than Younis Khan in ODIS who somehow managed to play until 2015 without any meaningful performance for nearly 6 years.
Yes pretty much
That actually indicates your intention - taking chance without looking at the data.
Let's start with T20 WC, which was comfortably PAK's 2nd worst ever outing in any ICC event.
First match BD: against us, PAK batted first, he came at 17'5 overs @ 6, scored 15*(9)
2nd match IND: In a match at Eden WY & Afridi took 4 hit the deck pacer and MS put PAK in. Malik was sent @5 and he was the only batsman who made the contest some what respectable with innings highest 26 (16), out of 118/5 (18)
3rd match NZ: came @6, when top order has made sure that PAK won't chase 185 (came at 123/4, at 15'1, needing 63 of 29), scored 15*(13)
4th match AUS: Similar target (194), was sent @6 at 113/4 (13'2), needing 82 of 40, he scored 40*(20).
So, T20 WC ended with 4-4-3-96 (58) - average 96.00, SR 166
In CT,
1st match IND: chasing 319, after top 4 made sure an embarrassing defeat, he looked the only man with some self respect. Got run out for 15 (9)
2nd match: Chasing 220, Fakhar gave a flying start, still Azhar & MoHa made sure that it'l going to be a humdinger in case of DWL; came at #5, for a quick fire 16*(14), to give a DWL advantage, rain did the rest. This is from stats, but if you have noticed, same calculation SAF also did and they brought Rabada & Morkel back to finish 14 of their overs by 27th over.
3rd match: He was part of a collective failure that needed lots of luck to chase 230 sort of target against this SRL side. Still it was a failure.
4th match: Didn't bat. Arthur gave MoHa the chance to earn some soft runs and justify his spot - in reality had Malik come to bat at 4, PAK would have won 2 overs earlier
Final: Another failure, but he came at 240/2 sort of total and went after the bowling; it didn't click that day 12 (16).
Now, please justify - "Yes pretty much". I had to waste 20 minutes for this one.
his champions trophy was not good if u dont call it bad the only decent contribution was that 16runs against RSA...but that was vital,,but all other failed except fakhar zaman.
He was part of a winning team and contributed in the progress, fair enough.
Its still a failure, where is the half century? MOTM performance? Crossing the 30 run mark only once in 8-9 games and you are calling this is success? Shows the low standards of Malik fans.
The only thing that has you going is a 40 off 20 from Malik, in an already lost cause situation for us, after we had failed vs NZ we were most likely to go home.
Thank you for this hard work, but I didn't know you set low standards according to what suited your narrative.. he has always been the same this is nothing better post 2015 like you all so 'desperately' want it to be.
What's next Khalid Latif and Sharjeel Khan are GOATs because they crossed the 40 run mark in that tournament too? Maybe we should give this award to everyone out there with a 40+ run score, I'm pretty sure no one came close to Don Malik's strike rate
I thought I wrote enough to make you understand that in T20 WC it was a gross level mistake to slot batsman in form at 6 in a 20 over game. Obviously you didn’t notice the 3 not outs, otherwise you won’t have exposed yourself regarding the standard.
Yes next we should call Fahim Ashraf an ATG for remaining not out after scoring 13 of 3 balls
Black Zero
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Malik needs just 355 to leave Salim Malik, YK, and Miandad behind.
Lower order batsman leaving behind top order batsmen!!
Lower order batsman leaving behind top order batsmen!!
Afridi also surpassed them, I fail to see your point? I'm pretty sure an 18 year career had nothing to do with it.
Black Zero
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Not much difference if we ignore 130 plus matches.
Anyway afridi would be next target.
Interesting thing to follow would be if Malik can quickly score 9 50s, then he will have 50 fifties...and 9 hundreds (one more than Miandad's, anyway we should ignore miandad as he has extremely low SR.).
If he bats up (or atleast comes ahead of hafeez), then it's pretty possible that he even surpasses Saeed Anwar.
Please try to be perspective in any discussion instead of beating about the bush. If a 3 match T20 series is the universe, Fahim indeed an ATG for his 17 average with bat at 190 SR, and 6 wickets at 7 with 4.5 economy, including a hat-trick.
Here you were pretty much sure about Malik's failure in T20 WC - I have to say you goofed up trying to over exaggerate. If T20 WC'16 is the universe, like Fahim's case, an average of 96 at 166 SR indeed is ATG staff.
You have placed several goal posts around the field - if somehow you can net once, which isn't required. No one is claiming SM to be ATG, not even in PAK only; but the guy is earning his spot and silenced those trolls mocking around his technique and weakness against pace.
I give this example every time - Bradman has only 42 innings over 50, that means he was a failure in 50% time; for any other player it's about 75-80% (1 out of 4 to 5 success), so if you want to seat beside fence and come to throw stones every time he fails, you should get enough opportunity; but that'll be a bit childish thing.
The guy is much much smarter than the trolls trying to get under skin - hence he retired from a series after scoring 300 runs and taking 10 wickets. Come up with argument if there is anyone better than him in PAK to bat at 5 in LOs, then we'll talk. Lost interest in wasting time for discussing cherry picked stats.
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Yes we are looking at a cricketing ATG who averaged 96 in a tournament that these stats had nothing to do with what happened to the team, or the outcome of the game.
We should just forget about what Sharjeel did that tournament since it was only Malik and has 10s and 20s that made a difference to the game, I didn't know someone accumulating not outs is now a thing at the expense of the team
Just to put my arguement to perspective here are the highest scorers in t20 world cups ever and look where Malik is despite playing almost all tournaments that have ever taken place. A man that has a career average in t20 tournaments of only 32 at that SR is now being praised for his 'non-existent' performances that lead to an average of 90.
If Malik is an ATG than maybe Gayle, Jayawardene Dilshan, Kohli are demi-gods for almost socring twice the runs in the same number of games
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Rubbish arguement. An FTB is now being compared to these names.
Abdullah719
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I don't want to get involved in this strange discussion to be honest but your point is somewhat bizarre.
You're comparing openers with #5 batsmen in T20Is?
I don't want to get involved in this strange discussion to be honest but your point is somewhat bizarre.
You're comparing openers with #5 batsmen in T20Is?
View attachment 77068
Position/Matches/HS/Runs/Avg/SR
No.4 36 75 823 28.38 122.47
No.5 31 63* 639 27.78 107.94
Malik according to batting position.
As you can a batting average of 28.38 with 2 half centuries and 4 half centuries at no.5.
Clearly he failed a no.4 batsman which is why he got demoted to no.5-6, not the other way round.
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Abdullah719
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All I am saying is that you can't compare someone batting at 1-3 with someone at 5. Not in any format. Least of all, in T20Is.
mak36
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I don't want to get involved in this strange discussion to be honest but your point is somewhat bizarre.
You're comparing openers with #5 batsmen in T20Is?
View attachment 77068
)I'm pretty sure his account has been hacked. His posts are pretty out there, these days.
Yes I am also saying he failed as a no.4 and he has been tried in that position, which is why he got demoted, not like some of his fans are asserting that he isn't given a chance at the top of the order or hasn't been, the highest number of his games played are still at no.4
aloo paratha
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You should seriously go see a doctor.
You should see the points made by [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] , some of them are baffling. Apparently there is this new rule in cricket, that if you been not out on 10* in 4 out of 5games, it is much better than scoring a matchwinning 50 in 1 game. Players should look to end on a not out and be selfish rather than playing for team and country.
aloo paratha
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That's not what he's saying. He's saying that while his performances definitely weren't amazing, saying that he was a failure is far from the truth.
Dont know how you still can't understand. Either you don't have the brain power or you are just biased.
If they weren't amazing what's getting your knickers twisted? I have been saying for a while now, Malik is not world class and that is what offended his fans here in the first place. The fact that he has been so poor in world cups is a testament to that.
2 50s and that too in his first tournament when he was captain. Since then nothing.
super hitter
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In that case Ahmed shahzad too, by sitting on the bench...
Gabbar Singh
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Shobby is on fire - even in T10 cricket there is no stopping him.
Syed1
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Biwi ka kamaal hai sara
miandadrules
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I would like to take this opportunity to congratulate Malik on his second highest score in New Zealand!
That average is rocketing towards the magical 10 barrier.
That average is rocketing towards the magical 10 barrier.
Arham_PakFan
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Hafeez and Azhar are rightly criticised for their failures but this guy does not get the criticism despite being woeful in foreign conditions against good bowling attacks.
shah_1
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His average since World cup is highly overrated, he was exposed in the champion Trohpy and same will happen in the World Cup.
Abdullah719
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shah_1
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Overrated batsman
Chief Destroyer
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His average in NZ steadily climbing.
miandadrules
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He's done it!
After 14 years of trying he's finally taken his average in to double figures.
But he wasn't done there, he's gone and set a 2nd highest score in New Zealand.
This is shaping up to be one of his marquee series.
After 14 years of trying he's finally taken his average in to double figures.
But he wasn't done there, he's gone and set a 2nd highest score in New Zealand.
This is shaping up to be one of his marquee series.
Chief Destroyer
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Glad to see you put bias aside and appreciate Malik.
CricFan2012
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Thanks for the cheeky post and a chuckle mate
)
PakSarZameen
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Really disappointing, battled it out and then gave it away to a nothing delivery.
Pete Rose
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Should retire now
BunnyRabbit
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It's not just Malik, no one is doing anything in this series in our team. Sarfraz is batting like a tailender, dont know what Babar's doing, Azhar is failing like no tomorrow. Hafeez played a good little inning but that is about it. Whole team looks either too overwhelmed or too overconfident. Sarfraz has apparently stopped working on his batting since becoming captain.
Pete Rose
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What hafeez did today is also considered failure maybe a lesser failure than the others but failure still. If after playing 15 years of cricket you don’t know how to step up then you should retire. Don’t judge him in isolation. Think about how his softness will run off on the younger players
BunnyRabbit
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Didn't say he was a success, but when others are going out for 10s and 20s, a 60 should be considered a relative success. Hafeez has always been a softie. I stated this before the series started, if Pakistan are to win, they need Hafeez to score centuries, as he is the only person (+/- ability to score and accelerate when on song against pace dominated attacks even though its quite rare).
One of the biggest chokers we've ever had.
Even Hafeez was done more in crunch situations. He did next to nothing in the CT whereas at least Hafeez cracked an excellent fifty to drag us over 300 in the final.
Malik simply cannot play quality pace outside Asia. His record in England and NZ is shameful.
Where is Black Zero with his brightly coloured charts and graphs ?
Even Hafeez was done more in crunch situations. He did next to nothing in the CT whereas at least Hafeez cracked an excellent fifty to drag us over 300 in the final.
Malik simply cannot play quality pace outside Asia. His record in England and NZ is shameful.
Where is Black Zero with his brightly coloured charts and graphs ?
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miandadrules
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I think the emotion of playing in New Zealand for the last time has gotten to him.
I think fate will play a cruel trick on him just like it did to Bradman and just like Bradman he will end up with an average of 9.94 in New Zealand.
#Legend
I think fate will play a cruel trick on him just like it did to Bradman and just like Bradman he will end up with an average of 9.94 in New Zealand.
#Legend
Rana
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Nobody slates this guy for his media obsession and trying to come across as a cool superstar even though he is a zero performance player at the highest level.
The cheapest celebrity in the history of Pakistani media
The cheapest celebrity in the history of Pakistani media
miandadrules
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It’s worked.
Look at the litany of excuses that are being provided for him.
More telling has been this wave of praise for his “phenomenal” performances since 2015. Which has basically consisted of scoring runs against Windies, Zim and Sri Lanka in Asia.
Seems like facts are an inconvenient truth.
miandadrules
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He did it.
10.44 in New Zealand after 10 innings.
We only managed to win one of those ten matches.
I knew he wouldn’t allow the blemish of a single digit average on his record.
Of course his fans will rewrite history to say he was concussed throughout the series.
10.44 in New Zealand after 10 innings.
We only managed to win one of those ten matches.
I knew he wouldn’t allow the blemish of a single digit average on his record.
Of course his fans will rewrite history to say he was concussed throughout the series.
Square Drive
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His career seems to be in limbo now all of a sudden.
Fakhar
Opener (Malik won't open, that's for sure) - Amin/Imam/Azhar/Shehzad (being realistic)
Babar
Haris
Hafeez
Sarfraz
Shadab
Fahim
3 of: Yamin, Hasan, Amir, Rumman, Nawaz, Imad, Junaid, Shinwari
^ That's gonna be the likely combo going forward. Don't see Shadab and Fahim batting as low as 8 and 9 to accommodate Malik, especially since our bowling will be too thin.
Seems we have finally reached a point where only one of Hafeez/Malik will play at a time!
Only way forward is if Babar gets pushed up to open - which I now wouldn't mind considering Hafeez is gonna be there no matter what - but even in that case (which looks unlikely at the moment), I really wouldn't put in Malik over the likes of Talat or maybe even ahead of an Imad/Nawaz.
Let's see what happens.
Fakhar
Opener (Malik won't open, that's for sure) - Amin/Imam/Azhar/Shehzad (being realistic)
Babar
Haris
Hafeez
Sarfraz
Shadab
Fahim
3 of: Yamin, Hasan, Amir, Rumman, Nawaz, Imad, Junaid, Shinwari
^ That's gonna be the likely combo going forward. Don't see Shadab and Fahim batting as low as 8 and 9 to accommodate Malik, especially since our bowling will be too thin.
Seems we have finally reached a point where only one of Hafeez/Malik will play at a time!
Only way forward is if Babar gets pushed up to open - which I now wouldn't mind considering Hafeez is gonna be there no matter what - but even in that case (which looks unlikely at the moment), I really wouldn't put in Malik over the likes of Talat or maybe even ahead of an Imad/Nawaz.
Let's see what happens.
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