This. Kick nhi milti hai bina captaincy ke kyu @Rana ji.Not motivated enough to score runs under Masood.
Make him captain and then see the runs flowing like a flooded river.
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Contact the PP Team
Should Mohammad Rizwan still be in the squad after such performances?
- Thread starter mominsaigol
- Start date
Rana
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He needs to be kicked out of Pakistan cricket
Master Blaster
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SportsWarrior
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Great analysis. Also @Mamoon contention that Rizwan is better due to higher average at a poor strike right is a real bad argument. If someone is averaging higher with poor strike they will lose more matches for their team, especially so if that happens in the top of the orde where you are supposed to set the pace for the rest of the team. Everyone else will be in catch up mode once players like Rizwan get their 38 ball fiftees
Top of the order batting as changes so much in T20s that Kohli, who is probably one of the greatest Whitehall cricketers, is completely left behind even though he averages very highly with much higher strike rate than Rizwan. He was continuously criticized for scoring at 138 strike rate
Rana
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mominsaigol
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Rizwan's avg in champions cup 29 and sr of 80 which was the lowest of the low in the cup for top order batters.
Rizwan in pak vs eng series so far. Avg of 5, SR of 61
.^^ Rizzu fans will say high sr if test cricket and he batted his heart out
Rana
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Naqvi better hold his end of the deal now.Rizwan's avg in champions cup 29 and sr of 80 which was the lowest of the low in the cup for top order batters.
Rizwan in pak vs eng series so far. Avg of 5, SR of 61
^^ Rizzu fans will say high sr if test cricket and he batted his heart out
shah9425
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Next captain of our team 
Rizwan is a bang average cricketer. What did he win us to be an undroppable?
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He is getting away because of this.
mominsaigol
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Yes, we saw it todayHe is getting away because of this.
. 41 of 97, atleast he's playing to his avg lolI don't really like Rizwan and his antics. Does not pass the eye test as a pure bat but like all wicket-keepers, he is gutsy and has the ability to make ugly runs.
For example: He has played 9 tests as a designated keeper bat in SENA and averages 45 there. 7 Half Centuries. No Pakistan keeper has more than 4 50+ scores.
Rizwan (9 Tests): 733 runs @ 45.81
Sarfaraz (13 Tests): 532 runs @ 25.33
Kamran (15 Tests): 526 runs @ 19.48
Moin and Rashid fared better averaging 29, but there is very little debate about who is Pakistan's best ever keeper. It's Rizwan.
Arguably the 5th best full time keeper bat of the last 35 years in Tests. (Gilchrist, Pant, QDK, Flower).
There is zero merit in criticizing his test performances.
For example: He has played 9 tests as a designated keeper bat in SENA and averages 45 there. 7 Half Centuries. No Pakistan keeper has more than 4 50+ scores.
Rizwan (9 Tests): 733 runs @ 45.81
Sarfaraz (13 Tests): 532 runs @ 25.33
Kamran (15 Tests): 526 runs @ 19.48
Moin and Rashid fared better averaging 29, but there is very little debate about who is Pakistan's best ever keeper. It's Rizwan.
Arguably the 5th best full time keeper bat of the last 35 years in Tests. (Gilchrist, Pant, QDK, Flower).
There is zero merit in criticizing his test performances.
Varun
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He's actually a handy batsman.
Low scores are few and far between with him.
If SR is a problem, it's only in ODI/T20. Not in tests.
Low scores are few and far between with him.
If SR is a problem, it's only in ODI/T20. Not in tests.
Rana
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Ab Fan
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Nope you are Hall of Famer. I am just senior test player
gazza619
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Riz was clearly captaining the side on the field today. Shan looked lost.
Varun
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What a revelation that is. Normally Pakistani cricketers are at each other's throats for captaincy, but here they are behaving in more Sri Lanka fashion - where it doesn't matter who is captain: Sangakkara, Jayawardene, Dilshan etc. - they all help each other on the field.
Rana
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I think PCB have told Shan that Rizwan is the next captain, let him do his thing.
Shan is only there for the toss and calling the review if everyone agrees with it.
Salman Ali Agha was also doing a lot of talking/field placings.
mominsaigol
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Rizwan vs England 2024 so far
0
10
41
23
25
Avg so far 19.8
This is our Spin and t20 Bradman everyone.
0
10
41
23
25
Avg so far 19.8
This is our Spin and t20 Bradman everyone.
How about sweeping knowing that it was the worst shot to play on this surface. If he was out to brilliant deliveries fair enough but this was as brain dead as they come.
Rana
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Bro what are his scores since that 170* against Bangladesh? Including Champion’s cup?
Do you remember his arrogant fans saying Rizwan will turn up for Pakistan so his domestic performances don’t matter?
mominsaigol
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171 (bangladesh)
After that
51 of 80 2nd innings
29 of 63 1st inning vs bang 2nd test
43 of 73 2nd innings vs Bangladesh 2nd test
Champions one day cup
45 of 57
33 of 39
51 of 67
20 of 22
0 of 1 aka golden duck
Pak vs Eng
0
10
41
23
25
Rana
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And these performances are warranting captaincy?
mominsaigol
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Their warranting the title of Spin Bradman,T20 Bradman and Pakistan's priemere Batsman according to 2 special posters so why not
.
emranabbas
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His fans need to respond instead of going in a hiding.
He's being hyped to the skies as if he's the savior of Pakistan cricket, and without him, pakistan cricket will fall on his face
He's being hyped to the skies as if he's the savior of Pakistan cricket, and without him, pakistan cricket will fall on his face
mominsaigol
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That's exactly why I made this thread and as long as I'm alive, I will keep bumping this thread every series as long as rizzu stays.
I've noticed as soon as Rizwan started failing, People stopped commenting on this thread.
This thread is the ultimate rizzu stats per series thread.
emranabbas
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When nauman ali is playing better than rizwan that says it all
Rana
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How can Rizwan get away with these performances?
Easy answer,
He will be made captain. That’s how
Easy answer,
He will be made captain. That’s how
Buffet
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Let's keep detailed Rizwan's criticism or discusion in this thread. Let's not discuss him in all kinds of different threads including match threads. Other wise it makes it hard to enjoy other threads.
He seems to be a very polarizing figure. Lots of fans supprts him a lot and lots of fans oppose him a lot. Not many with middle grounds. Or I am just seeing vocal minority often and getting this impression?
He seems to be a very polarizing figure. Lots of fans supprts him a lot and lots of fans oppose him a lot. Not many with middle grounds. Or I am just seeing vocal minority often and getting this impression?
Vocal minority
aboveandbeyond
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Atleast he has some credibility.
Showbaz, with ZERO mandate, is the ultimate poodle of the establishment. You must be proud.
Rana
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Let’s raise as much awareness as we can about him in threads which are active at the time. Otherwise the liars do not turn up in threads like this.
Last match, there were people like @RedwoodOriginal who said Rizwan is the only player who gets into England’s side.
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Buffet
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Probably true.
He is neither that great nor that bad in test cricket.
In T20, it's just ridiculous to have him in team specially as an opener. Even in other positions, I don't think he should play T20. trying to hit everythingon leg side won't work when you have score every ball.
In ODI , he shouldn't open due to his limitations. Easiest time to bat is as an opner and teams rely on flying starts to get a good total. I think he could find a slot somewhere lower. Did he bat lower anytime decently? if not then out of ODI team as well and play just in the test format.
That's just my take and I could be off.
Buffet
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Problem with that - all threads becomes Rizwan's thread.
Some cross discussions in all threads are fine, but not too much when we have dedicated threads on Rizwan. I think there are more than one dedicated threads on Rizwan. I am not saying that not to take his name in other threads. After all, discussions can't happen in isolation and things are inter related, but lots of talk about Rizwan in all kinds of threads makes it hard to enjoy other threads.
As I said, he looks a polarizing figure among Pakistani fans and I don't get it.
mominsaigol
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This will be a long post but you need to know the story
I think I need to explain the story to you.
Basically pak cricket in recent times has been Misbah fans vs Pakistan fans.
The reason this happened is because after the 2009 attack on sri lanka followed by the 2010 spot fixing incident Pakistan cricket was in shambles with its death being rumored to be around the corner.
Not only was cricket banned for pakistan on home soil as well as losing 2011 wc hosting rights, The spot fixing ban made pakistan a mockery with many boards demanding pakistan cricket to be banned altogether or at the very least lose test status.
Afterwards, While pakistan did somewhat recover thanks to YK in 2009 and afridi in 2011, Oathgate + Afridi just not being interested in being an all format captain meant pakistan didn't even have a long term solution.
Enter Misbah who not only became captain, but was educated, Soft spoken, had been around the side for ages and more importantly managed to turn UAE into a test cricketing fortress, Hence when pakistan finally reached that no 1 test rank in cricket, Lots of people felt that he restored respect back to pak cricket.
I mean think about it, it was in test cricket where spot fixing happened and now 6 years later pakistan has become no 1 in its historic format.
It was Misbah's greatest achievement However This achievement also came with the case of Hero Worship Syndrome where certain Pakistani fans took one positive instance of Misbah's career and associated it with everything in its entirety which resulted in many fans such treating Misbah as a jesus figure.
The truth about Misbah is that while he isn't a bollywood villian nor is he jesus, He has many flaws. For example Misbah has extremely extremely stubborn views on Whiteball cricket and he isn't able to distinguish that certain players who are only good in one format, aren't good in other formats.
He's also extremely nepotisitc and just hates anyone rising up from outside his friend clique.
For example Misbah struck gold with asad shafiq at 6 in test, but despite asad shafiq failing in odi non stop, Misbah was just too obsessed with somehow making him work at 3. Which is why he kept returning, even returning and failing against australia in the odi series in 2014.
Similarly he has shoved many deserving cricket players aside because their not a part of his clique and don't follow his viewpoint.
Misbah's own views on cricket are also stuck in the 1990's and to top it off, he himself was an extremly selfish and cowardly batter.
Anyway, in 2012 Misbah had collapsed the t20 team and was forced to retire showcasing why t20 wasn't his format, then in odi he had horrific results from 2013-2015 and in this period brain dead decisons were made such as Promoting a fat and unfit nasir jamshed over sarfaraz in wc 2015 even though sarfi was top scorer in aus 2014 odi series and was in form of his life in test circuit. Due to limited options sarfi should have opened but Sarfraz didn't fit Misbah's philosophy. Infact sarfi was taken only because pakistan didn't have another keeper at the time and even then Misbah forced UA to keep for 6 games.
Flash forward to 2019-2020 when he was made head coach and chief selector he completly changed the entire structure of the t20 side and killed it again.
He killed t20 for pakistan in 2012 and then killed it in 2019-2020. Also had medicore results in odi but pretty good results in test.
The people that Misbah promoted during this time was Babar who went from no 3 accumulator to pak's priemere batsmen, Rizwan who couldn't find his way into the side and was dropped nonstop due to poor form as the 2nd main batter and fakhar was shoved especially in t20.
Anyway long story short, While Misbah isn't all bad and not every player he's brought has been crap especially in test, He's made it clear from both his batting and captaincy and coaching that he's horrible when it comes to whoteball cricket and so are his buddies who follow his ideology.
Rizwan, Babar, Chacha, Abrar and a few others are in the same clique.
The problem is that Misbah fans thanks to that 2016 test association have taken it to the extreme where narratives are now built for Misbah. His achievements are overglorified and his failures have narratives built around them.
Rizwan is Misbah's favourite however amd hence he's now the 2nd most polarising figure after Misbah.
Misbah wanted to Make rizwan the captain and even made him a captain for one NZ test series. It's just because rizzu wasn't even mainstay in 2019 misbah knew that another Azhar Ali type odi appointment would raise serious questions so Babar who was mainstay was chosen.
Had Misbah not been sacked, Rizwan would have become captain by 2021 or 2022.
That's really the jost of it. Midbah fans love rizzu, Non misbah fans hate rizzu.
mominsaigol
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It's not a vocal minority. I've been around twitter, Reddit, Youtube comments and various other platforms.
Most fans do not like rizwan or Just ignore him and consider him as whatever.
Infact 90% of pakistan cricket fans don't even care. He's just a keeper for them who has played a few good innings and many bad ones that's all.
PP is the only place I've seen Rizwan overglorified as the next Big thing and defended like he's everyone's Wife.
Misbah was the most polarising figure thanks to the spot fixing scandal nonsense but Rizwan is literally a footnote topic that for some reason fans feel the need to defend lol
Rana
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As the guy said above, “vocal minority”.
Why is the anti-Rizwan brigade a minority here? That’s the issue with Pakistan cricket. They don’t understand what is good and what is bad for them.
You have to be ridiculous to think Rizwan is world class, yet nonsense like this is normalised here. On top of that, it’s being made out that he is the most natural and deserved captain of Pakistan. A mediocre player who really shouldn’t even be in the white ball sides will be made captain. Why should there not be any awareness raised against this?
There are some of us who are doing our level best to make sure the truth is not distorted by the ‘deluded majority’. Rizwan is the biggest fitna in cricket, and the least I can do is continue to highlight this. That would be my service to Pakistan cricket.
mominsaigol
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The biggest problem is that people are hiding behind his wicket keeping clause.
It's such a cheap argument.
You can't be a keeper first and batter 2nd but then be a t20 opener + No 4 in odi + no 6 test specialist?
Carey is a keeper first and batter 2nd hence bats at no 7 in all formats, But inglis has made it clear he wants to transition into a batsmen and wants to be batter first and keeper 2nd.
Like his fans need to make up their mind.
If rizwan is keeper first and batter 2nd, then he needs to be an all format no 7, or give way to haris who can literally do the sane thing is the job is just to keep first and not much batting is expected from you.
But if rizwan is batter first and keeper 2nd, then replace him for a specialist keeper and get an actual middle order batter or opener in his stead since he is not good enough to be a batter first?
^^ It's a very simple concept. No one is saying Haris or sarfi are superior? Only usman kham is up for contention, However haris and sarfi aren't pretending to be batters first and keepers 2nd.
Buffet
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Thanks for the detailed post. I am familiar with many things you said due to being a poster in PP for a long time.
Yes, Misbah is also a very polarizing figure. I give him credit for building a test team in UAE. He was a good captain for Pakistan in those conditions so credit goes there. It should start and end there.
He was detrimental for limited overs for sure. You don't need to explain that to me. I have seen enough of him. Not all games, but enough to have some opinion. I also don't think he should have been omnipresent in PCB set up after his retirement with taking selector, coach, director and what not at the same time. That's too much in one person's hands and perhaps his influence lead to outdated approach in limited overs.
I would definately won't open with Babar and Rizwan in limited overs. Team will lose more often due to how they bat when all other teams are trying to get a flying start during easiest time to bat in initial overs. Coming up with reasons that no one can do the job does not make sense. I would have played Fakhar non-stop as an opener. I know some one will throw average or volume at me, but he is the only one who showed capacity to go big. Average/Volume etc are useless when you can't go big as an opener.
Having said that, I see no issue in Rizwan playing for test team right now or Babar coming back after some domestic games.
No player is bigger than the game. Pakistani cricket does not need marketing face as said by Raja. Pakistani cricket needs players who are willing to give it all for their team. Yes, even if you lose, show fight. I have seen cricket since early 90s and Pakistani cricket has never been in such a bad shape as recent years. Happy to see shake up and team doing well after the shake up. I hope it will help Pakistan over the long term. Even if Eng manges to win series here, it was a good shake up. I won't confuse it with current team being a great team, but even average teams can show fight.
mominsaigol
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I agree on most of your points, but just to reiterate, Rizwan is polarising due to essentially being a spiritual successor to Misbah
Yes they have different personalities and also different techinques and what not, however
Rizwan is the guy who was chosen as the successor by Misbah himself, he was the future captain, The star player and pakistan's future and misbah made that very clear in 2019.
Rizwan is polarising for the sane reasons Misbah is polarising, Both are very selfish batters and both are very very medicore batters, and to top it off both are bothchers hiding behind fraud statistics.
And ironically test is their favourite format and the one format where you can debate whether they are good additions or bad additions.
People look at Misbah's test career with a narrow lens. Misbah isn't that great of a test batter and neither is rizwan.
But tbf excluding rizzu's current patch, he isn't a bad test batter either.
Misbah and rizwan are very very similar, even their fans are similar, However one thing I will say is that atleast Misbah didn't do any of this clown or fake acting nonsense that rizzu does.
mominsaigol
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Another common similarity between Misbah and Rizwan is that both have fans who hide behind a clause.
For Misbah it was the captaincy clause aka of Misbah doesn't captain then who else?
And for rizwan it's wicketkeeper clause
shaz619
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This wicketkeeper clause was like a last resort for them, for his fans, it’s like the one ring to rule them all and get out of jail free card. Since we’ve been in the business off picking specialist captains (Misbah, Shan et al), Rizwan bhai is our specialist keeper now because there are no keepers in Pakistan apparently, Covid killed them all, and from that outbreak came the Covid fans.
shaz619
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Am just waiting for this guy to do one so Salman can bat higher in the order.
shaz619
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If you want to play a specialist keeper Rizwan sympathisers, why don’t ya do us a favour and have Rizwan come in at no.10, I’d be willing to accept that as a short term fix; think he would be decent for a Tailender until we get a proper keeper batter in
emranabbas
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Number 10 nauman/sajid are miles ahead of rizwan
shaz619
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That’s what am saying, both those guys should be batting ahead of him, let Rizwan come in at no.10 or no.11, because he’s a specialist keeper, that’s what his fans are saying
Buffet
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He does not have skills to play in top order but not as bad to bat at 10 in the test format.
For shorter formats, yah it may be better to not have him bat anywhere. You can't really do much if all you do is to play shots on leg side. That way you are very dependent on playing them and opposition will figure it out and not give you those area to hit. It can be expensive for team.
babar has less limitations, but we have seen Pakistan paying the price where 60 balls are played with very little score in shorter formats because Rizwan/Babar opened the batting. Then same posters starts expecting everyone else to score at 200 SR and when they fail to do it I see threads about Pakistan not able to even compete if Babar/Rizwan don't open in shorter formats. They show volume/avg. Huh, volume/avg will be there if you hog the strike and bat at easiest time to bat without taking risk. That's just non-sense. There is no brownie point for ensureing respectable loss from the get go.
------------
Having said that, we all differ in perspective. So take it easy. Just because some posters keep saying something it won't change the fact one way or another. We should enjoy watching live and commenting. That's the only reason I requested to keep Rizwan related discussions limited to some threads.
For shorter formats, yah it may be better to not have him bat anywhere. You can't really do much if all you do is to play shots on leg side. That way you are very dependent on playing them and opposition will figure it out and not give you those area to hit. It can be expensive for team.
babar has less limitations, but we have seen Pakistan paying the price where 60 balls are played with very little score in shorter formats because Rizwan/Babar opened the batting. Then same posters starts expecting everyone else to score at 200 SR and when they fail to do it I see threads about Pakistan not able to even compete if Babar/Rizwan don't open in shorter formats. They show volume/avg. Huh, volume/avg will be there if you hog the strike and bat at easiest time to bat without taking risk. That's just non-sense. There is no brownie point for ensureing respectable loss from the get go.
------------
Having said that, we all differ in perspective. So take it easy. Just because some posters keep saying something it won't change the fact one way or another. We should enjoy watching live and commenting. That's the only reason I requested to keep Rizwan related discussions limited to some threads.
emranabbas
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Its a good shout rizwan can be a good number 10, quick 20 30 runs here and there
We will be a batsmen short but it can pave way for a solid middle order batsmen so might be worth it
We will be a batsmen short but it can pave way for a solid middle order batsmen so might be worth it
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Give him a rest and try someone else... maybe try haseebullah and see how much capable he is in Red Ball cricket.
Rana
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But but but Mera Rizzu Symonds Gilchrist ka record kaise break kare ga phir??
Rana
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What was he hoping this was going to miss? The gap between the stumps?
TeymurBlake
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I can't believe he took that review. He was so blatantly out.
Goodness me.
Goodness me.
mominsaigol
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Gonna bump this thread for tmr
mominsaigol
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Gonna keep bunping
mominsaigol
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7 of 25 so far. Absolutely no regard for RR. Why do people even like this bafoon? Why because he's misbah's ace in the hole?
It's an absolute torture watching him bat.
It's an absolute torture watching him bat.
jeeteshssaxena
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Lol, As usual, it's just Babar and Rizwan away from home in lois.
mominsaigol
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First match against Australia
Rizwan 44 of 71. Zindabad buddy
Rizwan 44 of 71. Zindabad buddy
mominsaigol
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How can a no 4 operate at a 61 SR while a no 9 operates at a 102 sr?
Both got similar scores? 44 and 40?
Both got similar scores? 44 and 40?
zaidihusain
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Rizwan should open, that's the best slot for him in ODIs and score run a ball up to 15-20th over. He has no business at no. 4
mominsaigol
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One thing I'd like to add, is that apprantly rizzu fans claim that he's an excellent player of spin however spin bradman has gotten dismissed by rehan Ahmed and labu in his last 2 international innings.
This thread is bliss. This thread is the historical truth.
This thread is bliss. This thread is the historical truth.
Opening he’ll be a walking wicket and removed within a few overs.
His fan base will never accept it but he’s just not a top 6 batsman. A keeper has to be special to bat in the top 6. He should bat at the traditional keeper position no7 max. If he can’t hack it there he shouldn’t be in the team.
zaidihusain
Tape Ball Star
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He can replicate his T20 game in ODIs which is anchoring. If he can score 60-70 run at run a ball it's still okay. In ODIs he is useless at every other position
The problem is it’s a completely different game. The opening new ball bowlers can work you over in an ODI for 6 overs each. In t20s you just need to survive the opening burst for a couple of overs.
Smbhayi
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Kamran Ghulam 5 (6) SR 83
Saim Ayub 1 (5)
Salman Ali Agha 12 (29)
Babar Azam 37 (44)
mominsaigol
Senior T20I Player
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Yes and rizwan's 44 of 71 is greatly appreciated.
Smbhayi
Test Debutant
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Yeah he clearly he outperformed 3 domestic bullies here..
Btw lucky day for you.. Would've been very bad day if Aussies loses this match..
mominsaigol
Senior T20I Player
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Naw I'd be fine. I would say it's an unlucky day for you but after witnessing rizzu botch dozens of games for pakistan, I'd say it's common place now
mominsaigol
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No ones gonna talk about his 61 sr snail pace innings today? Hmm? No one?
Sunny_majoka
Local Club Captain
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Absolutely nothing batsman, my eyes bleed while watching him bat.
Rana
Hall of Famer
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Of course not. He’s above criticism.
Kianig89
Senior Test Player
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Rizwan scored 44 out of Pakistan ' 203, Pakistan did not played their full overs.
So why is Rizwan to blame for all this.
So why is Rizwan to blame for all this.
Local.Dada
First Class Captain
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Pak teams usually have 2 types of captains
The man’s man- alpha types- Imran. Wasim, Misbah, Younis Khan, Inzamam
The uncharismatic street cricketer who works magic from the background with practical and common sense moves- Miandad, Sarfaraz etc
Rizwan is the closest who can be a bridge between the 2 categories
The man’s man- alpha types- Imran. Wasim, Misbah, Younis Khan, Inzamam
The uncharismatic street cricketer who works magic from the background with practical and common sense moves- Miandad, Sarfaraz etc
Rizwan is the closest who can be a bridge between the 2 categories
Mamoon
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It was an OK innings given the nature of pitch, the main issue was getting out after getting set. This 44 (71) should have been converted into 110 (130) which could have been match winning on a 250-260 pitch.
It was simply poor approach by Pakistan. The entire top 6 was back in the pavilion by the 32nd over. The run rate wasn’t a problem. Batting 50 overs is the biggest key on 250-260 pitches when you’re batting first.
It was simply poor approach by Pakistan. The entire top 6 was back in the pavilion by the 32nd over. The run rate wasn’t a problem. Batting 50 overs is the biggest key on 250-260 pitches when you’re batting first.
Misbah and alpha!!!
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