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South Africa finish Day 1 of the second Test against Pakistan in a commanding position at 316/4

jnaveen1980 said:
Bavuma is in top 10 rankings already. He will move further up the ranking after this innings. WIll he reach no.1 ranking?

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After this hundreds likely to take 5th place . Wow
 
More than the speed, Pakistan lacks heavy ball bowlers. Some bowlers bowl at 135 kp but it comes hard at you. Tall into the deck bowlers. All of them just float the ball. Even otherwise Pakistan lacks this into the deck bowlers.
 
Hamza should have played at Centurion and Naseem was a must here. SAF already in a position to bat PAK out of the Test. And, they are scoring at 4+ RR…. It’ll need two days of rain :(
 
Rizwan takes a standard catch for a keeper behind the stumps

Ramiz wax lyrical as if he’s taken a blinder
 
This is a flat deck with barely any grass & sunny conditions & yet PAK skipper says we wanted to bowl first so we both got we wanted . At 311/4 in 78 overs , how happy are you with the bowling on offer ?
 
Human786 said:
This is a flat deck with barely any grass & sunny conditions & yet PAK skipper says we wanted to bowl first so we both got we wanted . At 311/4 in 78 overs , how happy are you with the bowling on offer ?
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True brother of Rohit Sharma but finally we get rid of Sharma .now Pakistan time to throw out this 28 average test captain .
 
PakPremi said:
Perfect selection from the available squad, had Shan used his part time spinners to break the tailend partnership Pakistan would had won the match. Naseem had fluke wickets and Jamal was under bowled last match, even Khurum in the second inning brought on when was too late. Poor captaincy from Shan, he needs to be more proactive thus match and make better tactical decisions or should be shown door.
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He is as poor captain as the batsman he is
 
MMHS said:
It’s a much harder surface, and drier as well. For that SAF has picked three “hit the deck” fast bowlers, dropping two cricketers taking 10 wickets in last Test. On top, they have picked a genuine finger spinner. It’ll not be easy for PAK batsmen, particularly if SAF has 450+ on board - they’ll put 6 catching men and bowl aggressively; run rate might be higher, but PAK won’t bat longer.
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It'll definitely get harder as the match progresses especially with Pakistan batting second. But like I said, however great of a fast-bowler you are, you will struggle on this surface. The point of difference is Maharaj, who will be a handful especially as the surface deteriorates
 
80 hours in 6.5 sunny hours. ICC is a joke - their every effort is to make Test cricket unpopular & controversial.

At this rate, we’ll see 4 day, 300 overs joke.
 
MMHS said:
80 hours in 6.5 sunny hours. ICC is a joke - their every effort is to make Test cricket unpopular & controversial.

At this rate, we’ll see 4 day, 300 overs joke.
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Why blame on ICC . blame it on Pakistani bowler's and captain .
 
TheSultan said:
Absolutely right brother.

Our “fans” are like scavengers. Scavenging for any excuse to defend these lame duck 120k, slower than 15 year old bowlers.

We keep getting gaslighted with that earth shattering argument “we don’t have anyone better”.

They did that about t20 openers - and Saim showed we do.

They did that with Babar in tests, and we get Ghulam. Now we’re getting that with so called fast bowlers who are an insult to that profession. Pure floaty trundlers. Such an embarassment.

I refuse to believe that’s the best we’ve got. And no gaslighting will convince me otherwise.
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Why don't you name someone better instead of getting gaslighted? At no point did me or anyone else say that these guys were incredible bowlers. The reality is that the standard of Pakistan's pace-bowling is mediocre and has been for years. We are simply pointing out that reality, and telling who are the best bowlers among the current crop. Whereas certain others continue to live in this deluded fantasy that we have this assembly line of fast-bowlers.
 
Big big blunder here when these guys selected Maharaj we should have had Noman Ali.

Jamaal proving useless with bat and ball.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
It'll definitely get harder as the match progresses especially with Pakistan batting second. But like I said, however great of a fast-bowler you are, you will struggle on this surface. The point of difference is Maharaj, who will be a handful especially as the surface deteriorates
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Not sure about the kid, but Rabada & Jansen will be quite difficult with new ball - this deck is made for tall, hit the deck bowlers with new Kookaburra.

Yes, not a 170 all out track, and PAK should score lot also once the ball is old, but I’m afraid PAK will be 3-4 down by 25th over against new ball and keep chasing the game for rest of the duration.
 
MMHS said:
80 hours in 6.5 sunny hours. ICC is a joke - their every effort is to make Test cricket unpopular & controversial.

At this rate, we’ll see 4 day, 300 overs joke.
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There is a provision for fine for slow over rate. Is it still applicable in tests? Just implement this rule in tests, things will change.

In high scoring tests over rate can be the big difference between draw and result.
 
Devadwal said:
Why blame on ICC . blame it on Pakistani bowler's and captain .
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Every team is culprit because ICC is soft.

In AUS-IND series 84/85 is norm, but on last day, at MCG, Aussies were ahead of the rate and could have bowled 93 overs had India played out the distance- because they were winning the game.

This suggests that players (batting side as well) just take it for granted and do things comfortably.

In EPL,!these days, I see 105, even 110 minutes played and it will go further if players don’t stop wasting time.

Put a fine of 5 runs penalty/per lost over (not only fielding side - batting side also waste lots of time), you’ll see the dramatic change. I have seen teams with 4 pacers comfortably bowling 91-93 overs in bang on 6 hours as near as 1980s.

Before every break (lunch, Tea), in last 6 minutes there will be one over, because batsmen will discuss in between twice about their girl friend or wife’s period in between last over….. after every break umpire stand on position bang on time …. Then bowlers start measuring run up, batsmen suddenly needs one more conversation…. first ball starts after 3 minutes.

Just put a rule that Lunch is not after 2 hours, rather after 29 overs (the extra minutes required will be deducted from lunch break), Tea after 58 overs … & game ends after 90 overs - and fines in terms of penalty runs will be applied at the end of the day - this pandemic of slow over rate will be eradicated without any medicine.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Yeah, Aamir Jamal's batting is a huge plus down the order, especially on tricky wickets where every run matters. You can get more out of his bowling if you use him right. But Shan used him very poorly in the last test.

That said, I question the claim that he can bowl at 140 clicks. He did bowl at that pace in Australia a year ago, but since then he has been bowling in the 131-133 range in pretty every format.
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💯 about Shan.

He s as clueless as Babar was with captaincy.

He bowled 142 k s today but again was used poorly.

Not one bowler bowled a yorker.
 
This was always going to happen when you send a mediocre attack based purely on domestic numbers rather than the conditions and the type of bowling required to win test matches.

That is what most people don't understand along with the dumb selectors and chairman, Captain and coach.

The only positive is that dumb strategy has been exposed.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Why don't you name someone better instead of getting gaslighted? At no point did me or anyone else say that these guys were incredible bowlers. The reality is that the standard of Pakistan's pace-bowling is mediocre and has been for years. We are simply pointing out that reality, and telling who are the best bowlers among the current crop. Whereas certain others continue to live in this deluded fantasy that we have this assembly line of fast-bowlers.
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Sadly you are right. We could see and I pointed this out yesterday that if the pitch is dry this attack looked very, very average.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
Big big blunder here when these guys selected Maharaj we should have had Noman Ali.

Jamaal proving useless with bat and ball.
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I was wondering why we don't use any spinners in the test matches, but seems our selection panel and team management is quite delusional about the abilities of the Pakistan pace attack. I don't know what they are watching, most laymen on here can point out the deficiencies. It is really quite astounding levels of ignorance.
 
Devadwal said:
@Mamoon you and other pakistan fans were talking too much about india performance in australia ( india vs australia match thread ) but looks at Pakistan performance. They are getting destroyed by South Africa.

:kp
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Well Pakistan isn't a good cricket team and the fans have little expectations from the team to do well yet the team occasionally surprises us by winning 3-0 in foreign conditions. Team India on the other hand, hyped to the moon. Over a billion people emotionally invested in cricket and a powerful and rich cricket board but still not a lot to show for in terms of results.
 
TheSultan said:
215-3. It’s not such a gotcha now is it? Toothless attack.

Let’s attack with 120k floaters - and that’s what you get. Floaters.
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This is exactly our problem. The moment wickets don’t fall. We blame the pace because obviously “it must be the pace”.

What about line and length? Variation? Control? What about bowling plans?
What about the pitch conditions? What about the batsmanship? What about fielding?

You should thank your stars one of the 22 year “pace sensation” you al fetishize wasn’t because of their 140+ pace wasn’t playing on this pitch. It would have been 400/1 on this pitch today.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
How's the best bowler in Pakistan looking now, brother? Will that Test average ever come down to 40 and below?
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He’s Pakistan’s best bowler, and he proved it today, even on this pancake pitch.

I only engage with logical arguments, not trolling. Highlighting a random innings doesn’t reflect a bowler’s quality—everyone has good and bad days. Let’s stick to sample sizes for meaningful discussions.

Also, I was spot on about Nauman Ali’s inclusion prior to the start of this test. Thanks for the bump up
 
Farabi said:
He’s Pakistan’s best bowler, and he proved it today, even on this pancake pitch.

I only engage with logical arguments, not trolling. Highlighting a random innings doesn’t reflect a bowler’s quality—everyone has good and bad days. Let’s stick to sample sizes for meaningful discussions.

Also, I was spot on about Nauman Ali’s inclusion prior to the start of this test. Thanks for the bump up
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You called a 46 averaging trundler who has picked 12 Test wickets in his entire career the best bowler in Pakistan.

And you're accusing others of trolling?
 
Nikhil_cric said:
You called a 46 averaging trundler who has picked 12 Test wickets in his entire career the best bowler in Pakistan.

And you're accusing others of trolling?
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That’s a better argument. However it would be even better if you did more research.

6 tests spread across how many years? Played on what kinds of surfaces?

I base my opinions on data. He has 600+ FC wickets. I have seen some of his performances in domestics. He swings it both ways. He is one of the best proponents of reverse when it is on offer. Hes impeccable with line and length. And his spells have at least 2-3 wicket-taking Jaffers.
 
Farabi said:
That’s a better argument. However it would be even better if you did more research.

6 tests spread across how many years? Played on what kinds of surfaces?

I base my opinions on data. He has 600+ FC wickets. I have seen some of his performances in domestics. He swings it both ways. He is one of the best proponents of reverse when it is on offer. Hes impeccable with line and length. And his spells have at least 2-3 wicket-taking Jaffers.
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Very high quality data to come to such a conclusion.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
You called a 46 averaging trundler who has picked 12 Test wickets in his entire career the best bowler in Pakistan.

And you're accusing others of trolling?
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On another thread (which backfired comically in his face) , he is finding solace by comparing this Pakistani attack to NKR a batting allrounder and Natarajan, Saini, Shardul who aren't even selected as net bowlers for India.

Make of that what you will. :lara
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
He scored a couple of centuries at home the start of his career against South Africa and India. I like the way he batted too. The stance and style of playing. But he was a mediocre player.
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Yasir Hameed had a good start but was unable to kick on. Otherwise people rated Butt very highly from that crop, but he was a habitual big score followed by 4-5 single digit score kind.
 
Mesozoic said:
On another thread (which backfired comically in his face) , he is finding solace by comparing this Pakistani attack to NKR a batting allrounder and Natarajan, Saini, Shardul who aren't even selected as net bowlers for India.

Make of that what you will. :lara
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Thakur was intrumental winning the Gabba test. 7 wickets. THen oval test was also won due to his bowling. THen he took a 7 wicket haul in SA. These guys are nowhere close to Shardul.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
Very high quality data to come to such a conclusion.
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If data quality is so low, then why do all the other pacers not have these stats? They just simply aren’t as skillfull.

I have always believed that Abbas, Mir Hamza, Amir and Junaid Khan should been the frontline test pacers from 2016-2024. We missed their peaks. Even today, Abbas and Mir Hamza kept it tight, and if the bowling was tighter from other ends, outcome may have been different.

Shaheen and Naseem should not have been fast tracked in red ball. They should have been inducted around now with 150+ FC wickets each.
 
IMO Pakistan deserve to lose having been cocky and not picking a proper spinner.

That too after a side that qualified for the WTC final announced their side a day before with a full spinner in the side.

Then the captain trying to be cheeky by saying ‘we would have bowled first’.

Ab khao chittar!
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
It's a good question that I don't know the answer to. I think firstly we should temper our expectations because its not possible for any fast-bowler to play multiple formats and bowl at 140+ in this day and age.

As far as producing more 140+ bowlers is concerned, I think the thinking needs to change. And the focus on FC needs to increase from a young age. Bowlers need to learn to bowl long spells at a young age so they can grow naturally while maintaining their pace. Because T20 cricket is destroying the temperament and attitude of our players.
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Look how PCB treated Junaid Khan. And I doubt anyone would want to make himself available for test cricket without workload management.
 
Rana said:
IMO Pakistan deserve to lose having been cocky and not picking a proper spinner.

That too after a side that qualified for the WTC final announced their side a day before with a full spinner in the side.

Then the captain trying to be cheeky by saying ‘we would have bowled first’.

Ab khao chittar!
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They have digged their grave themselves
 
BunnyRabbit said:
Yasir Hameed had a good start but was unable to kick on. Otherwise people rated Butt very highly from that crop, but he was a habitual big score followed by 4-5 single digit score kind.
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Yup he had probably the most amazing start to his career but same issues. Lack of temperament. Ultimately didn't have what it takes to succeed at the top
 
Mesozoic said:
On another thread (which backfired comically in his face) , he is finding solace by comparing this Pakistani attack to NKR a batting allrounder and Natarajan, Saini, Shardul who aren't even selected as net bowlers for India.

Make of that what you will. :lara
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I am glad India realized that these bowlers who played tests for India are net bowlers.

Everything I said on that thread will hold the test of time. Pakistani fast bowling is OK, but it’s better than Indian test bowlers… oh wait they are net bowlers now
 
Farabi said:
I am glad India realized that these bowlers who played tests for India are net bowlers.

Everything I said on that thread will hold the test of time. Pakistani fast bowling is OK, but it’s better than Indian test bowlers… oh wait they are net bowlers now
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You've completely lost it lol. Comprehension skills went out for a toss as expected.

Anyways...be happy comparing your mediocrities to third string indian bowlers. I guess that's your level now.
 
Salman Agha in a press conference:

Q: How did the day go for Pakistan?

"It didn’t go the way we wanted but tomorrow we’ll come back and try to get them out as cheaply as possible."

Q: Maybe another spinner would have been useful in these conditions especially since you’ve already picked up two wickets?

"Yeah, it happens when things don’t go in your favor. The combination we decided to play with was based on our plan but yes having another spinner could have worked in our favor. You don’t really know until you try but when things don’t work out, it feels even worse."

Q: About Saim Ayub’s injury:

"The way he was batting and considering the form he’s in, he could have been a great asset for us on this wicket. I hope he recovers soon and makes a comeback during the West Indies series."

Q: What went wrong after the lunch session?

"The first half of the day went really well for us and we won that session. But both their batters played exceptionally well, and you have to give them credit. That 200-run partnership was the turning point. If we had broken it earlier, it could have been a different story."

Q: The balls which you bowled didn’t turn much, were they wicket-taking deliveries or was the wicket supportive?

"Trust me the ball wasn’t turning much but I can still turn it. In South Africa especially in Cape Town and Johannesburg you rarely see turn. However the wind provides a little drift which can be very helpful."

Q: What was the strategy while bowling to Rickelton?

"At that time nothing was working. The ball was getting older and there wasn’t any lateral movement. We tried different plans but they were batting so well that nothing seemed to work in the end."

Q: After a tough day, what will be the strategy for tomorrow?

"Obviously, it was a tough day today but you never know—if we get two or three quick wickets, it can change the course of the game. We need to forget what happened, focus on the next day with a fresh plan and make the most of the new ball tomorrow. The goal is to get them out as quickly as possible."
 
Farabi said:
I am glad India realized that these bowlers who played tests for India are net bowlers.

Everything I said on that thread will hold the test of time. Pakistani fast bowling is OK, but it’s better than Indian test bowlers… oh wait they are net bowlers now
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“Pop gun mediocrity” vs the world’s most “promising” upcoming pacers head 2 head in Aus:

Amir Jamal - 18 wickets at 20
Mir Hamza - 7 wickets at 20
Khurram S - 6 wickets at 25
Nitesh Rana - 6 wickets at 50
A Deep - 5 wickets at 54
NKR - 3 wickets at 49
 
Farabi said:
“Pop gun mediocrity” vs the world’s most “promising” upcoming pacers head 2 head in Aus:

Amir Jamal - 18 wickets at 20
Mir Hamza - 7 wickets at 20
Khurram S - 6 wickets at 25
Nitesh Rana - 6 wickets at 50
A Deep - 5 wickets at 54
NKR - 3 wickets at 49
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Mir Hamza is averaging infinity in south africa lol shouldn't you count that too lol Just one series on early season pitches where there were a lot more juice which would make even ordinary trundler a great bowler?
 
Ear
jnaveen1980 said:
Mir Hamza is averaging infinity in south africa lol shouldn't you count that too lol Just one series on early season pitches where there were a lot more juice which would make even ordinary trundler a great bowle
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A common denominator was used for apples to apples comparison. Same hosts and same opposition.
Anyway, I knew an excuse is coming. Early season, late season, ground was different, Australia was playing B team, they took it lightly. I rest my case!
 
Farabi said:
Ear

A common denominator was used for apples to apples comparison. Same hosts and same opposition.
Anyway, I knew an excuse is coming. Early season, late season, ground was different, Australia was playing B team, they took it lightly. I rest my case!
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COmpare Mukesh kumar average in SA then lol
 
jnaveen1980 said:
COmpare Mukesh kumar average in SA then lol
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My thread/proposition was that upcoming pacers from Pakistan looked more promising in Aus than India’s. Are we at an Inflection point? This isn’t conjecture. This is backed by data.

I don’t want us to spin our wheels, because you and @Mesozoic will keep distorting facts rather accepting them for what they are. That takes humbleness.

Record in SA is irrelevant. Let’s move on
 
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