South Africa vs India | 2nd Test | Centurion | Jan 13-17, 2018 | Day 2 | Discussion Thread

[sensible-indian-fan]

Is it in our players minds or your mind? This entire series I've seen a striking disconnect between how close the match is on the field and how badly Indian fans think we're getting crushed...

Nope.

I for one, believe if we had arrived early like bcci offered for the test players in the team and picked the right squad, we would have won the first test.

2nd test should have got them out for 300 and piled on 450.

I haven't seen many fans think we are getting crushed. Everyones too busy being annoyed at kaptan Kohli.

 

[Sidilicious]

Dude your sample set is this one series. Insufficient sample set. It doesn't work like that.

Anyways Bhai, let's agree to disagree.

This convo is going nowhere.

That's not how you calculate it.

If top order underperforms it doesn't mean tail also is likely to underperform. And reverse also with overperformance. If our top 5 were expected to get only 180 you'd be right, but we have scored less than likely.

Sif's argument pretty much answers your questions. You can never guess what will happen in a one-off situation, but when analysing something, you analyse based on large number of data. And generally, the last 5 do not score as much as the top 5.

 

[dravidthewall]

Can pandya and kohli put another 100 runs partnership?

 

[dravidthewall]

That will be good for india to reach 300.missed rahane in this test

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Can pandya and kohli put another 100 runs partnership?

God only knows.

 

[Lefthanded]

Last ten overs produced 34/1. New ball due in 19 overs. Best-ish case scenario India score at 55-60 and don’t lose a wicket in that period.

Can Kohli, Pandya and Ashwin collectively survive 2 sessions when 5 of India’s top 7 couldn’t put together 90 runs together?

Against the new ball Shami, Ishant and Bumrah are walking wickets. Shami's only 50 came on a flat pitch in Nottingham years ago. The latter two are already walking wickets. India should rue not playing Bhuvi if they don’t get close to SA’s total.

Or just rue anyway. One could’ve argued for leaving out Rahane on current form, losing faith in Dhawan against a new ball bowled by Rabada, Morkel and Ngidi, but dropping Bhuvi doesn’t leave me optimistic for this and England.

If VK won't field the same team two Tests in a row, then he's out of touch with his own players. Is VK's chopping and changing an XI by a Test captain a record?

I can’t be too optimistic about India batting out 2 sessions, and it wouldn’t surprise me if they’re bundled out in the first session.

My heart say India get within 30 runs and try to do better in the second innings, but with soft batsmen like Rohit, and Pujara's inability to score abroad?

Any SA lead over 30, and it'll extraordinary feats for India to win.

 

[Sidilicious]

God only knows.

Will need to bat the full first 2 sessions at least - 60 overs. Which means India cant lost more than 1 wicket in the 1st session tomorrow. Tough ask.

 

[Protea Fan]

This rahane screech is very annoying

I know rohith is poor but this turf so far behaves more like a subcontinent wicket and how on earth people are thinking rahane who looks clueless against lanka scoring here

 

[Mr.Q]

Gotta agree with [MENTION=135134]CricketAnalyst[/MENTION] here. Some gentlemen have been criticising the selection. Rahane and Rahul weren't convincing at all in the home series. I don't know on what basis they expect those two to completely turn the match on its head. Maybe they will put up a decent show, but when you select a team you always take into account the recent performance. We didn't see anything special from Rahul today. Hopefully he'll do better in the next innings. Rohit continues to find a place in the team because of the Mumbai lobby in Indian cricket (although in this particular test, the flat nature of the wicket may have led to his selection) . Selectors, coaches, commentators... Mumbai effect is everywhere. Either Rahane or Rohit with always find a place in the XI. It seems the easiest way to find a place in the Indian team (or at least get noticed) nowadays is to somehow get a contract with Mumbai Indians in the IPL.

The decision to drop Bhuvi appears stupid but maybe Kohli wanted to go with a set of 'hit the deck hard' bowlers on a flat track?

India is not doing well because they aren't batting well. It's more an issue with execution than selection. Dhawan should have been given another chance.

 

[Tusker]

Will need to bat the full first 2 sessions at least - 60 overs. Which means India cant lost more than 1 wicket in the 1st session tomorrow. Tough ask.

wickets of a well set Vijay and Pujara's gift to SA will be the difference in the end.

 

[BaankeJi]

It is very tough for India to come back in this innings.
Batting till tea is not going to be easy.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

No need to bat till tea.

Our run rate is 3.

What we need to do is get close to SA total (anything more than that can be considered bonus at this stage).

If we play for 45 overs, we would have scored 135 runs....reducing the deficit to just 17 runs (if Pandya goes berserk, we could take a lead too).

If we play 40 overs, we would have scored 120 runs...reducing deficit of just 30 runs (if Pandya clicks, we will match Saffer score).

All we need to do is survive the first hour and take it from there.

40 overs we stay and we are in the game. It's as simple as that.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

If set Kohli or Pandya stay when we have the last 3 batsmen on - Shami, Bumrah and Ishant....and momentum is on our side, you can expect us to get some 25-40 runs from the last 2 wickets (with Kohli or Pandya scoring the runs).

Ashwin needs to get his usual useful 30 here. Though these days, no one knows when he will perform.

Interesting day coming up tom.

Seriously, test cricket is amazing when you have no frigging clue whats about to happen the next day.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

One thing I forgot:

New ball coming up in 20 overs.

 

[PakLFC]

RSA need Kohli's wicket. Get him and 2-0 is definitely on. If he lasts two more sessions then we could be looking at 1-1. India are still highly dependent on him.

 

[Savage]

Gotta agree with [MENTION=135134]CricketAnalyst[/MENTION] here. Some gentlemen have been criticising the selection. Rahane and Rahul weren't convincing at all in the home series.I don't know on what basis they expect those two to completely turn the match on its head. Maybe they will put up a decent show, but when you select a team you always take into account the recent performance. We didn't see anything special from Rahul today. Hopefully he'll do better in the next innings. Rohit continues to find a place in the team because of the Mumbai lobby in Indian cricket (although in this particular test, the flat nature of the wicket may have led to his selection) . Selectors, coaches, commentators... Mumbai effect is everywhere. Either Rahane or Rohit with always find a place in the XI. It seems the easiest way to find a place in the Indian team (or at least get noticed) nowadays is to somehow get a contract with Mumbai Indians in the IPL.

The decision to drop Bhuvi appears stupid but maybe Kohli wanted to go with a set of 'hit the deck hard' bowlers on a flat track?

India is not doing well because they aren't batting well. It's more an issue with execution than selection. Dhawan should have been given another chance.

Couldn't agree more.I am more dissapointed by india's dropped catches & dismissals of pujara and Vijay.

Rahane is a quality player who has been india's best batsmen outside Asia but he's got only himself to blame.

Regarding Rahul,I haven't seen anything to suggest that he would be guaranteed success overseas.However,The hype he gets indicates that I might have missed something.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Couldn't agree more.I am more dissapointed by india's dropped catches & dismissals of pujara and Vijay.

Rahane is a quality player who has been india's best batsmen outside Asia but he's got only himself to blame.

Regarding Rahul,I haven't seen anything to suggest that he would be guaranteed success overseas.However,The hype he gets indicates that I might have missed something.

KLR is a solid batsman. No practice match. He is directly playing here. Also he is frequently dropped for no apparent reason. He is playing for his place every match. Give him 10 matches in a row. You will see the result. Dropping him one match. Picking him next match doesn't help him. He is our future KOhli. Trust me on this.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

People doubting KL Rahul.

Dude is potentially a bigger monster than Kohli.

Years back, Dale Steyn was raving about him and predicted he will rise up the ranks.

His performance in aus home series gave us a glimpse of what he could do.

 

[Hasan123]

The longer Kohli is at the crease the quicker SA lead will decrease India need to get as close as possible to South Africa score . Day 4 and 5 could be difficult to bat on.

We are in for an interesting conclusion to this test

 

[Chrish]

People doubting KL Rahul.

Dude is potentially a bigger monster than Kohli.

Years back, Dale Steyn was raving about him and predicted he will rise up the ranks.

His performance in aus home series gave us a glimpse of what he could do.

Rahul and Rahane (despite his torrid form) are must overseas.

Pujara has been a disappointment though. I read somewhere that he averaged 25 something in his last county season.

 

[Chrish]

Rahul and Rahane (despite his torrid form) are must overseas.

Pujara has been a disappointment though. I read somewhere that he averaged 25 something in his last county season.

27.75 from 12 innings at Notts last year.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Pujara is a hard worker with great temperament. He is not a naturally talented player like Kohli who just has to improve his shot selection to do well everywhere. Pujara who is uspposed to be nucleus of Indian batting line up for years to come is facing an uncertainty due to his indifferent form overseas.

 

[Moh@n]

KLR despite his failure here is miles ahead as a batsman than what Dhawan can ever be.

Rohit unfortunately just does not have the temperament for test cricket.

If only Shastri gets the boot and Dravid gets promoted to the post of the senior team coach, things would be so much nicer.

 

[jnaveen1980]

KLR despite his failure here is miles ahead as a batsman than what Dhawan can ever be.

Rohit unfortunately just does not have the temperament for test cricket.

If only Shastri gets the boot and Dravid gets promoted to the post of the senior team coach, things would be so much nicer.

ICC ranking testifies that. Rahul was in top 10. Now thanks to Kohli he is at 12. Dhawan is at 33.

https://www1.cricbuzz.com/cricket-stats/icc-rankings/batsmen-rankings

 

[giri26]

It is unfair to say Rahul failed. He played his first game and has been in and out of the side in the recent times. He will come good for sure if persisted with. He has more chances of succeeding than someone like Dhawan who ironically might have enjoyed this surface. The perplexing selection again is of Rohit Sharma. I had told earlier in an other thread where how he filled his boots against West Indies in 2013 and was taking to SA and how he flopped big time. He has done the same here. This was a good batting track and this guy makes 10 (27) and gets out. Rahane with eyes closed can bat better than Rohit.

The other selection which was horrible is dropping Bhuvi. I am not impressed with Shami, he is down on pace and is not bowling consistent lines. Even though Bumrah did not pick wickets, he still bowled with lots of pace and control. If someone had to be dropped it should have been Shami. Dropping Bhuvi also means we have a longer tail now, Bhuvi was India's best batsman in the first test.

 

[AamchiMumbaikar]

We are lagging in this test, 183/5 is not par on this pitch. Will be great if we come close to 300.

 

[Sadevdesai]

As long as Kohli is still there ..... anything can happen. Also, some of the tailenders are OK with the bat too .... so little too early to write off the Indians yet !!! The Indians are still in a bad position though .... no doubt !!!!

 

[giri26]

As long as Kohli is still there ..... anything can happen. Also, some of the tailenders are OK with the bat too .... so little too early to write off the Indians yet !!! The Indians are still in a bad position though .... no doubt !!!!

India will be hoping for huge contributions from Pandya and Ashwin as the bottom three cannot score any runs. If India has Bhuvneshwar, then he could have provided some stability in the lower order. Kohli needs to get a big hundred and needs sizeable contributions from the all rounders. India are looking at under 250 first innings total now. The drop catches are proving to be costly, SA scored at least 50 more runs than what they should have got.

 

[pillionrider]

People doubting KL Rahul.

Rahul will be our best opening batsman for another decade.

Dude is potentially a bigger monster than Kohli.

No he is not. Even potentially.

 

[Chrish]

No he is not. Even potentially.

Yes he is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_cricket_team_in_India_in_2016–17

 

[CricketAnalyst]

It is unfair to say Rahul failed. He played his first game and has been in and out of the side in the recent times. He will come good for sure if persisted with. He has more chances of succeeding than someone like Dhawan who ironically might have enjoyed this surface. The perplexing selection again is of Rohit Sharma. I had told earlier in an other thread where how he filled his boots against West Indies in 2013 and was taking to SA and how he flopped big time. He has done the same here. This was a good batting track and this guy makes 10 (27) and gets out. Rahane with eyes closed can bat better than Rohit.

The other selection which was horrible is dropping Bhuvi. I am not impressed with Shami, he is down on pace and is not bowling consistent lines. Even though Bumrah did not pick wickets, he still bowled with lots of pace and control. If someone had to be dropped it should have been Shami. Dropping Bhuvi also means we have a longer tail now, Bhuvi was India's best batsman in the first test.

That's bizzare. Rohit is also playing under constant pressure and while it isn't his first failure, a lot of 'fans' ignore any good performances at home.

Rahane must be asleep at the crease as per your logic given his current form and the number of failures he's racked up this year and a half or so.

 

[JattMaula]

Kholi to the party as soon as the grass is less green. So predictable.

And people really want Rahane on this track? Have you seen him bat in India? Man has some issues to sort out against spin.

 

[Princejain191]

Kholi to the party as soon as the grass is less green. So predictable.

And people really want Rahane on this track? Have you seen him bat in India? Man has some issues to sort out against spin.

Oh man, are you always this frustrated?

 

[Oligochaetes]

Gotta agree with [MENTION=135134]CricketAnalyst[/MENTION] here. Hopefully he'll do better in the next innings. Rohit continues to find a place in the team because of the Mumbai lobby in Indian cricket (although in this particular test, the flat nature of the wicket may have led to his selection) . Selectors, coaches, commentators... Mumbai effect is everywhere.

Isnt Rahane also from Mumbai? The choice is in between Rahane or Rohit and both are from Mumbai,

 

[CricketCartoons]

KL Rahul and Murali Vijay are darlings of the south indian lobby. Murali should be dropped, and either one from Rahane or Rahul should be playing. Rohit should get more chances to show his talent in Tests.

 

[jnaveen1980]

KL Rahul and Murali Vijay are darlings of the south indian lobby. Murali should be dropped, and either one from Rahane or Rahul should be playing. Rohit should get more chances to show his talent in Tests.

Rohit is a hack. Anyone with such poor defensive technique should not be an automatic choice.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Kholi to the party as soon as the grass is less green. So predictable.

And people really want Rahane on this track? Have you seen him bat in India? Man has some issues to sort out against spin.

Nothing to do with less green. He did okay in the 2nd innings last match.

 

[Mr.Q]

Couldn't agree more. I am more dissapointed by india's dropped catches & dismissals of pujara and Vijay.

Rahane is a quality player who has been india's best batsmen outside Asia but he's got only himself to blame.

Regarding Rahul,I haven't seen anything to suggest that he would be guaranteed success overseas.However,The hype he gets indicates that I might have missed something.

Yeah maybe there was some lack of discipline on the field. I believe catches in the slips go down because we have the wrong fielders there. Like Mathew Hayden said you're either a good slip fielder or you're not. There's a limit to how much you can improve it with practice.

Rahul and Pujara were unlucky yesterday I feel. But you didn't miss anything wrt Rahul. He's clearly over-hyped. I'm not questioning his abilities at all. But where are the results? Talent without performance is nothing. He did get his chances. A new entrant into the squad will never get consistent chances. You gotta grab them with both hands when you get them. Look at Shreyas Iyer.

The funny thing is, if he scores a 100 in the next innings these people will quote both of us and make fun of us lol.

@others Rahul is definitely a great prospect and he'll cement his place in this team if he performs well. Just a matter of time really. But I repeat, it's not about his talent but whether he did something to merit a place in this Indian team. He didn't. Dhawan deserved it more. So he got that chance in the first test. Stop throwing mud at people just because you didn't get the team you wanted.

 

[giri26]

That's bizzare. Rohit is also playing under constant pressure and while it isn't his first failure, a lot of 'fans' ignore any good performances at home.

Rahane must be asleep at the crease as per your logic given his current form and the number of failures he's racked up this year and a half or so.

Rohit got a good run in the team and has been back to the hilt by the captain. He has time and again showed that he is not a good test player away from home in tests. He went through the same slump as soon as he stepped outside Asia in 2013. He has done this again. I can understand if he failed in the first test as the pitch was difficult to bat on but he had no excuse to fail yesterday. Rahul though has been in brilliant form and in spite of that he has been dropped regularly. As far as Rahane is concerned, he has never been a great player in Asian conditions, but has been brilliant outside Asia. Sometimes you have to trust your best players and Rohit isn't one in tests. In spite of the recent form, Vijay, Pujara, Kohli, Rahul and Rahane are your best test players and you need to back them. I am sure in 3 innings Rahane would have made at least one significant contribution. He is that sort of a player. Rohit is a great ODI player and some time you don't have to be good in all formats. There have been examples of such players in the past like Michael Bevan.

 

[Mr.Q]

Isnt Rahane also from Mumbai? The choice is in between Rahane or Rohit and both are from Mumbai,

Yes either of them will find a place in the XI.
You know what happened when Rahul wasn't performing in SL. Someone said something. Rahul was dropped and Rahane was included in the XI for the next game. I'm not criticising that decision to include him, but where were these people when Rahul wasn't given consistent chances then?

 

[Mr.Q]

It's not an extreme case of nepotism. No Indian will do something that compromises on the quality of the side. I just said players from Mumbai often get a privilege. They're good/great players and deserve a spot in the team when in form. But they often get that extra push even when they aren't performing.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Rahul will be our best opening batsman for another decade.


No he is not. Even potentially.

The tougher the pitch, the better Rahul can adapt and score.

Green seamers or rank turner - you name it, Rahul can play.

The only difference is mental edge. Rahul is yet to show the mentall toughness Kohli has.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Yeah maybe there was some lack of discipline on the field. I believe catches in the slips go down because we have the wrong fielders there. Like Mathew Hayden said you're either a good slip fielder or you're not. There's a limit to how much you can improve it with practice.

Rahul and Pujara were unlucky yesterday I feel. But you didn't miss anything wrt Rahul. He's clearly over-hyped. I'm not questioning his abilities at all. But where are the results? Talent without performance is nothing. He did get his chances. A new entrant into the squad will never get consistent chances. You gotta grab them with both hands when you get them. Look at Shreyas Iyer.

The funny thing is, if he scores a 100 in the next innings these people will quote both of us and make fun of us lol.

@others Rahul is definitely a great prospect and he'll cement his place in this team if he performs well. Just a matter of time really. But I repeat, it's not about his talent but whether he did something to merit a place in this Indian team. He didn't. Dhawan deserved it more. So he got that chance in the first test. Stop throwing mud at people just because you didn't get the team you wanted.

What are you even talking about?

Just check his performances in test prior to this series.

Dude played an instrumental role in helping us win the home series against Aus where Kohli averaged 9.

He was the one who scored in rank turner pitches and was consistent throughout.

Did well against SL too.

I think you may be confusing formats.

And for Shreyas Iyer, I am sorry.

That hack is no match for KL Rahul.

Yes either of them will find a place in the XI.
You know what happened when Rahul wasn't performing in SL. Someone said something. Rahul was dropped and Rahane was included in the XI for the next game. I'm not criticising that decision to include him, but where were these people when Rahul wasn't given consistent chances then?

There is extreme nepotism.

Favouritism.

Politics.

People from the outside can see.

I have sources in the inside too.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

KL Rahul averaged 65 against Aus on tough pitch against a complete pace & spin bowling attack.

Averaged 71 against SL in SL in 2017.

Averaged 28 against SL in India (just 3 innings...scored a crucial 79 in the first test 2nd innings)

And on top of that, he has the skills to play.

Some players need time to get going. They have the skillsets and talent to be backed. When KL Rahul entered the test arena, he was either 0 or 100 guy. Then recently he became the consistent 50-65 but never 100 guy.

Just back him. Give him some time. He will get consistent.

But what does legendary Kaptan Kohli do?

Drop him in LOI for Rahane. lol.

Drop Rahane for Rohit in tests.

Drop Rahul for Dhawan in tests.

 

[Princejain191]

KL Rahul averaged 65 against Aus on tough pitch against a complete pace & spin bowling attack.

Averaged 71 against SL in SL in 2017.

Averaged 28 against SL in India (just 3 innings...scored a crucial 79 in the first test 2nd innings)

And on top of that, he has the skills to play.

Some players need time to get going. They have the skillsets and talent to be backed. When KL Rahul entered the test arena, he was either 0 or 100 guy. Then recently he became the consistent 50-65 but never 100 guy.

Just back him. Give him some time. He will get consistent.

But what does legendary Kaptan Kohli do?

Drop him in LOI for Rahane. lol.

Drop Rahane for Rohit in tests.

Drop Rahul for Dhawan in tests.

Yep, we can still make sense of the bowling changes but these were ridiculous. Hope it is beneficial in the long run though with everyone seeing how Rohit is playing at his prime outside India.

 

[Mr.Q]

What are you even talking about?

Just check his performances in test prior to this series.

Dude played an instrumental role in helping us win the home series against Aus where Kohli averaged 9.

He was the one who scored in rank turner pitches and was consistent throughout.

Did well against SL too.

I think you may be confusing formats.

And for Shreyas Iyer, I am sorry.

That hack is no match for KL Rahul.

Wow you completely skipped the Test series against Sri Lanka just before the SA tour. In the first Test he scored a first ball duck and 79 (but then Dhawan scored 94 and looked far far more convincing). In the second Test he scored 7 when Vijay and Pujara scored 100s and Kohli hit a double ton.
If anyone is confused, it's you. Keep your selective memory to yourself. And btw who said Shreyas Iyer is a better batsman than Rahul?! He isn't. But see how well he played even with his limitations when a chance was presented to him.

There is extreme nepotism.

Favouritism.

Politics.

People from the outside can see.

I have sources in the inside too.

I've played cricket for a while. Extreme nepotism is a thing of the past. Nobody is going to keep you out if you're playing extremely well. But when two equal talents are considered, those from Mumbai get a definite edge.

 

[JattMaula]

Oh man, are you always this frustrated?

Yes. Your point is?