The battle for the captaincy: Mohammad Rizwan vs Shadab Khan

[Major]

So, the final of PSL 9 is finally here. Mohammad Rizwan has been praised for his captaincy this year to the point that Mohsin Naqvi has been praising him. But than, all of a sudden, requiring to win 3 games on the trot to make it to the final, Shadab Khan shows up chases 229, defeats the might Quetta Gladiators in Karachi with there 3 spinners and than also defeat Peshawar while being 5 down at the start of the game.

Remember, Shadab Khan was the Vice Captain of Pakistan team.

So could this final be the winner taking the captaincy of Pakistan Cricket, or has Rizwan done enough to impress the stakeholders?

 

[Rana]

There is no battle

Shaheen will be captain of Pakistan in the 2024 T20 World Cup

He has deserved his chance, and he should be backed just like Babar was for 4 years unquestionably

 

[pakistani pride]

Shadab with his pathetic bowling should not even be in the team.

 

[Rana]

Shadab with his pathetic bowling should not even be in the team.

Same as Rizwan with his selfish approach and low strike rate approach in the powerplay

Shaheen is probably the only cricketer in the Cat A contract category who makes the XI on merit. He’s the only decent cricketer we have that can actually make most top international sides as a fast bowler

 

[mominsaigol]

Rizwan and Babar opening would mean we exit the world cup early.

 

[Major]

A thread about captaincy is derailed and turned into the usual batting and bowling talk.

 

[mominsaigol]

Whoever wins, doesn't even prove who's the better captain in this context.

So far shadab is the dude who caused us to lose pur streak against Afghanistan and has flunked every time captaincy has been given to him and rizwan is completly untested.

Captaincy shines when you lead an actual team on par with your capabilities.

Pat Cummings showed that he could win a cup despite not having the strongest team and being at the bottom of the table at one point.

After this psl, we'll have to see his leadership skills to determine, but if you want me to say it, so far rizwan is a superior captain, but neither have shown good captaincy skills.

I saw how rizwan constantly gets the team penalised, wastes reviews etc etc this psl alone.

 

[Major]

Whoever wins, doesn't even prove who's the better captain in this context.

So far shadab is the dude who caused us to lose pur streak against Afghanistan and has flunked every time captaincy has been given to him and rizwan is completly untested.

Captaincy shines when you lead an actual team on par with your capabilities.

Pat Cummings showed that he could win a cup despite not having the strongest team and being at the bottom of the table at one point.

After this psl, we'll have to see his leadership skills to determine, but if you want me to say it, so far rizwan is a superior captain, but neither have shown good captaincy skills.

I saw how rizwan constantly gets the team penalised, wastes reviews etc etc this psl alone.

Shadab is a bad captain that i agree with.

But Rizwan has over the years shown some good captaiincy skill set.

But whoever wins, will make a strong case for themself because Shaheen being removed is almost a given now unelss the chairman changes.

 

[Concerned]

The captain should always be a performing one.

Both Shaheen and Shadab have been poor the last year. Shaheen no longer has the same pace and is unable to pick up early wickets like he did whilst Shadab bowling has been mediocre.

Few PSL games does not hide their struggles in international cricket.

 

[Rana]

The captain should always be a performing one.

Both Shaheen and Shadab have been poor the last year. Shaheen no longer has the same pace and is unable to pick up early wickets like he did whilst Shadab bowling has been mediocre.

Few PSL games does not hide their struggles in international cricket.

Rizwan is performing?

15 off 20 in the powerplay????

 

[Concerned]

Regardless of what you think, Rizwan has won more games for Pakistan than Shaheen and Shadab combined in the last year.

 

[Rana]

Regardless of what you think, Rizwan has won more games for Pakistan than Shaheen and Shadab combined in the last year.

Which games for Pakistan has Rizwan won?

 

[BouncerGuy]

There is no battle atm. Shadab has to find his way into the team first. Rizwan is the only choice Pakistan had but he should have been made captain firsthand after Babar. Shadab is not even in the race atm.

 

[160KPH]

The three choices for captain are:

Shaheen
Shadab
Rizwan

Assuming that Babar is not brought back as captain. I prefer Shadab or Rizwan over Shaheen simply because I think Shaheen should be able to rest more and not forced to play more T20 series just because he is the captain of the side. Rizwan to me makes the most sense because he’s consistently been one of the best captains in PSL, he’s an automatic section in all 3 formats, and he has been quite impressive with the on field tactical decisions. He’s been the best at making bowling changes in the entire tournament as well as setting fields.

 

[BouncerGuy]

I think Shaheen should be able to rest more and not forced to play more T20 series just because he is the captain of the side.

Is it the right thing to discard a captain after just 1 series? why not keep him captain and he can rest then as well for a game or 2 inca series and rizwan can do captaincy in his absence?

 

[160KPH]

Is it the right thing to discard a captain after just 1 series? why not keep him captain and he can rest then as well and rizwan can do captaincy in his absence?

Yeah I do not think it is fair to remove Shaheen after just one series but at the same time I think Rizwan should have been made captain over Shaheen to begin with.

I’m not really sure what the best move is considering they already made Shaheen captain for a series. Whatever happens, they need to determine who will he the captain until at least the end of the WC.

 

[Vikram1989]

There is no battle

Shaheen will be captain of Pakistan in the 2024 T20 World Cup

He has deserved his chance, and he should be backed just like Babar was for 4 years unquestionably

Why 4 years. It has to be survival of the best and deserved candidate should be there .pak going down the route will not help cricket.As of now already too many minnows in the limited group.

 

[ahmadharis1]

Shadab should be nowhere near international captaincy, give me Rizwan over him ten times out of ten

 

[Major]

Bump.

now than, Shadab emerged as the winner. This changes alot of things

 

[BouncerGuy]

Bump.

now than, Shadab emerged as the winner. This changes alot of things

Still, it does not put shadab in the race to captain the National side.

 

[hafizexpress]

I'd actually rather have Shadab captain the team now. He seems to have improved as a captain as well as his confidence.

I've never supported Shaheen as a captain because that would mean someone as immature as him would have to play every single game and get injured again and not return to full fitness. He's not the greatest tactician.

Rizwan on the other hand will make us go back to the RizBar opening days and we'll be back to square one. That would mean genuine openers like Saim, Fakhar, and Farhan will play out of position.



So it's Shadab time. PCB needs to make this happen

 

[Major]

Still, it does not put shadab in the race to captain the National side.

It does.

Because all of sudden the focus is now on rizwan that why he lost three finals by his critics.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

Shadab doesn't come anywhere near to Rizwan in terms of captaincy. onlt Imad's heroics made Islamabad champions of PSL 9 but there was nothing special in Shadab's captaincy.

 

[Major]

Shadab doesn't come anywhere near to Rizwan in terms of captaincy. onlt Imad's heroics made Islamabad champions of PSL 9 but there was nothing special in Shadab's captaincy.

i agree with this.

But who knows what blunder PCB will do now

 

[shamaan]

Rizwan was the best captian off this psl.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

i agree with this.

But who knows what blunder PCB will do now

The way he got awarded Player of the Tournament no wonder they can go for it too.

 

[mominsaigol]

i agree with this.

But who knows what blunder PCB will do now

I'm making a bet with you, I'm giving rizwan till 2027 to make changes and change the team.

He'll have multiple icc tournaments and asia cups to prove his worth till then.

Rizwan won't be any different then babar as a captain.

 

[adil_909]

There is no battle

Shaheen will be captain of Pakistan in the 2024 T20 World Cup

He has deserved his chance, and he should be backed just like Babar was for 4 years unquestionably

No way. Horrible idea. He may not even have a place in the side the way he's playing, much less being a captain

 

[adil_909]

The captain needs to be a consistent performer first and foremost who can hold his place in the side on merit. Which T20 players can do that? Pretty much only Babar and Rizwan have proven that over an extended period of time. Let Rizwan have a shot and unite around him. Shaheen is barely bowling well enough to make the squad.

 

[mominsaigol]

The captain needs to be a consistent performer first and foremost who can hold his place in the side on merit. Which T20 players can do that? Pretty much only Babar and Rizwan have proven that over an extended period of time. Let Rizwan have a shot and unite around him. Shaheen is barely bowling well enough to make the squad.

And yet shan is captain of our test team

 

[IMMY69]

Making Shaheen captain in the first place was utterly illogical for many reasons...

Keep aside the lobbying from his father inlaw, the fact that he broke down during a World Cup final, bring our best bowler by a country mile, having to go through rehabilitation; to then be made captain without any form or test of fitness just made no sense at the time.

Barbar was a prime example of why the best players don't always make great captains so whilst it was right to remove Baber from the captaincy, making Shaheen captain was an even worse move given his recent history.

Shadab would not be a very good choice. Reason is simple. The man doesn't play first class cricket, his bowling has regressed and he sets a poor example to the youngsters.

I see now choice but to have Rizwan as captain.

 

[BouncerGuy]

People can get a huge surprise if PCB takes another huge step to make Shadab the captain for the T20 side. We can surely expect such a thing from PCB.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I don't advocate Shaheen's removal at all.

I'm not his biggest fan but removing him from captaincy after 5 games will genuinely tear apart the dressing room, ruin the morale of our best bowler and put doubts in the mind of any future captaincy candidates.

This level of uncertainty around roles cannot be healthy for the team.

Just because there is a new chairman doesn't mean that everything needs to change.

In a sense we should be glad that Shan flopped during the PSL because otherwise he would have been in contention for this captaincy too.

 

[pakfan54588]

Captaincy in 3rd class low quality league like psl shouldn't be benchmark. Both if given chance will be badly exposed in upcoming worldcup .

 

[Cricket Warrior]

And yet shan is captain of our test team

Rizwan is the best one to lead the team in Test cricket.

 

[adil_909]

And yet shan is captain of our test team

Exactly. How stupid is that? Captains need to be players that when selectors are picking a team, they are the first ones selected on merit. Only then can they lead a side.

 

[BouncerGuy]

I think Shaheen will stay the captain for the upcoming series and after that we can see what happens.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

I think Shaheen will stay the captain for the upcoming series and after that we can see what happens.

But i can see what will happen if shaheen remains the captain... we will lose that series 5-0

 

[BouncerGuy]

But i can see what will happen if shaheen remains the captain... we will lose that series 5-0

Results won't change if we change captain just after 1 series. Not good for confidence at all. Hope that whatever happens is good for the team.

 

[mominsaigol]

Hopefully the title of this thread can get updated soon, as if PCB have any sense, they'd instantly appoint imad as captain.

 

[Rana]

Some reports (usually credible) are hinting that the newly formed selection committee are in favour of Shadab Khan as the T20 captain of Pakistan. Thoughts? I don’t really mind this if the alternatives are Babar or Rizwan. No way would I like those two selfish players be in charge of a group of men fighting for Pakistan.

Tbh, I want Shaheen to continue. He’s done Pakistan a HUGE service by using his influence to get Amir and Imad back in the side. My respect and admiration for him has increased Tenfold.

 

[hafizexpress]

If Shaheen has genuinely worked hard to form his team by bringing Amir and Imad back, then it would be insulting to strip him of his captaincy at this point.

But other than that, I don't mind Shadab being captain right now. His confidence seems to have risen from this year's PSL. And he's someone who's on good terms with everyone. Captained Imad this year and is close with Babar. He also highly respects Amir. So I can see him making decisions for the betterment of the team.

The thing is, besides Shaheen, Rizwan is the other leading candidate. But I'd rather not have him and Babar open again. I was in support of it a couple of years ago but the rest of the nations have become too advanced with their PowerPlay usage and we can't keep falling behind

 

[RidiculousMan]

Interesting. While I expected recency bias (cognitive bias that favors recent events over historic ones). I didn't expected it to be this heavy among Pakistani Ex Cricketers and fans.

The ideal way into making decisions for any key position is not to just look at the most recent results, but to cumulatively look at all the the factors that goes into making that position right.

These short sighted evaluations maybe expected from the general fans but it should not be coming in from the members of any management team of executives.

 

[hafizexpress]

Interesting. While I expected recency bias (cognitive bias that favors recent events over historic ones). I didn't expected this heavily among Pakistani Ex Cricketers and fans.

The ideal way into making decisions for key positions is not to just look at the most recent results, but to cumulatively look at all the the factors that goes into making that position right.

These short sighted evaluations maybe expected from the general fans but it should not be coming in from the members of any management team of executives.

Although one could think it's recency bias, truthfully, Shadab has been the vice captain of the t20 side for the most of the last 4 years. If there's anyone who's truly deserving of it, even before Shaheen, it's him. Not to mention, Shaheen was also appointed captaincy due to his PSL success, so why not Shadab?

 

[Rana]

Interesting. While I expected recency bias (cognitive bias that favors recent events over historic ones). I didn't expected it to be this heavy among Pakistani Ex Cricketers and fans.

The ideal way into making decisions for any key position is not to just look at the most recent results, but to cumulatively look at all the the factors that goes into making that position right.

These short sighted evaluations maybe expected from the general fans but it should not be coming in from the members of any management team of executives.

So what are you arguing? Shaheen should stay as captain?

 

[hafizexpress]

Shadab being captain will also allow Shaheen to rest when required. If Shaheen is captain, he'll have to play every single game ever, leading to increased workload and higher injury risk. This is one of the main reason I was never in favour of him being captain

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Shadab can probably be a very good limited-overs captain for Pakistan. But his recent form has been a major cause of concern. I don't think he is ready for the responsibility. Had Shadab performed for us in the World Cup, our campaign could have gone very differently. Because a firing Shadab that delivers with bat, ball and on the field is usually central to Pakistan doing well.

 

[RidiculousMan]

Although one could think it's recency bias, truthfully, Shadab has been the vice captain of the t20 side for the most of the last 4 years. If there's anyone who's truly deserving of it, even before Shaheen, it's him. Not to mention, Shaheen was also appointed captaincy due to his PSL success, so why not Shadab?

It's not a very good criteria to change captain after every new PSL champion.

 

[pakistani pride]

Shadab being captain will also allow Shaheen to rest when required. If Shaheen is captain, he'll have to play every single game ever, leading to increased workload and higher injury risk. This is one of the main reason I was never in favour of him being captain

LOL so Captains from other teams play every single game cause they are the Captain? There is a thing called VC, who takes over at times.

On topic. Shadab full toss Khan should not even be in the team, making him Captain given his pathetic performances makes no sense.

 

[RidiculousMan]

So what are you arguing? Shaheen should stay as captain?

Shaheen was selected months ago basically because of his PSL success. But because a new season has concluded. We have to change captains again.

That's not the right way to evaluate and select a new captain. I'm not saying it was right during Shaheen's selection as captain either.

But executives now in key positions have to make decisions looking at the picture holistically.

 

[Rana]

Shaheen was selected months ago basically because of his PSL success. But because a new season has concluded. We have to change captains again.

That's not the right way to evaluate and select a new captain. I'm not saying it was right during Shaheen's selection as captain either.

But executives now in key positions have to make decisions looking at the picture holistically.

I agree

I would persist with Shaheen.

 

[gazza619]

As long as Shadab himself does not bat higher than number 7, neither does he allow Shaheen, I am OK with this experiment.

 

[mominsaigol]

Shaheen should stay as captain. He's ironically done one thing babar could never Do, and that's put his bias aside and actually form a team.

Already he's making more efforts to form a team then our previous joke captain.

 

[RidiculousMan]

As long as Shadab himself does not bat higher than number 7, neither does he allow Shaheen, I am OK with this experiment.

I think otherwise. Shadab's bowling doesn't look very convincing. At least not enough to be expected of him to deliver like a specialist bowler.

Pakistan continuously looks for a middle order batter. Shadab has great overall and recent record of playing at no. 4 position.

If he integrates in that middle order well. He is more confident and comfortable to deliver there more than at no. 7 as a power hitter (which he is not).

Shadab can then play as an all rounder and you also get an additional vacancy to slot in an extra bowler or a hitter.

 

[hafizexpress]

LOL so Captains from other teams play every single game cause they are the Captain? There is a thing called VC, who takes over at times.

On topic. Shadab full toss Khan should not even be in the team, making him Captain given his pathetic performances makes no sense.

Sure, but not in Pakistan.

 

[hafizexpress]

I don't see it happening anyway. Shaheen seems active right now. Why would PCB listen to him and then take his captaincy away

 

[DeadlyVenom]

It sends out the wrong message to remove Shaheen at the current time.

But if he does go then I would prefer Shadab to the other contenders.

 

[pakistani pride]

It sends out the wrong message to remove Shaheen at the current time.

But if he does go then I would prefer Shadab to the other contenders.

What has Shadab done in Int cricket for the last year?

 

[DeadlyVenom]

What has Shadab done in Int cricket for the last year?

He has been poor in ODI but I'm not sure about his T20 record.

Going forward ( after Shaheen has been given a fair chance) my preference is for the T20 captain to be someone who is not an automatic test pick.

Rizwan is essential in Test Cricket and I don't see the need for him to be captain in T20 to add more to his workload.

 

[gazza619]

I think otherwise. Shadab's bowling doesn't look very convincing. At least not enough to be expected of him to deliver like a specialist bowler.

Pakistan continuously looks for a middle order batter. Shadab has great overall and recent record of playing at no. 4 position.

If he integrates in that middle order well. He is more confident and comfortable to deliver there more than at no. 7 as a power hitter (which he is not).

Shadab can then play as an all rounder and you also get an additional vacancy to slot in an extra bowler or a hitter.

Shadab is not a number 4 batter at international level, and never will be.

The same applies is to Imad who is bowler who can bat.

Shadab should either look at improve his bowling or retire from international cricket.

 

[pakistani pride]

He has been poor in ODI but I'm not sure about his T20 record.

Going forward ( after Shaheen has been given a fair chance) my preference is for the T20 captain to be someone who is not an automatic test pick.

Rizwan is essential in Test Cricket and I don't see the need for him to be captain in T20 to add more to his workload.

His bowling is pathetic and in International cricket he cant bat at no 4. Neither is a hitter at no 6 or 7. Had loads of potential but being lazy and playing a zillion leauges made it even worse.

 

[CerebralPatriot]

It is basically a contest between dumb vs dumber however with Shadab at least an argument can be made that he deserves a place in the T20 team. Rizwan on the other hand is not fit to even make the KP second XI and therefore Shadab is easily the better option

 

[DeadlyVenom]

His bowling is pathetic and in International cricket he cant bat at no 4. Neither is a hitter at no 6 or 7. Had loads of potential but being lazy and playing a zillion leauges made it even worse.

Then your preference would be for Rizwan to play all three formats and also be captain?

I don't think that can work else we will have situations like when Shaheen rested against Australia

 

[gazza619]

People are forgetting how awful Shadab was in his captaincy vs Afghanistan. Pakistan lost the T20 series under his leadership.

 

[Rana]

People are forgetting how awful Shadab was in his captaincy vs Afghanistan. Pakistan lost the T20 series under his leadership.

That wasn’t a full strength team was it? He didn’t have Amir and Shaheen, nor Babar

 

[Barragan]

People are forgetting how awful Shadab was in his captaincy vs Afghanistan. Pakistan lost the T20 series under his leadership.

Spot on.

IU didn't win because of his captaincy, it was because IU had a deep batting line up and Imad had a sensational day.

 

[gazza619]

That wasn’t a full strength team was it? He didn’t have Amir and Shaheen, nor Babar

It was a team good enough to beat Afghanistan.

 

[Rana]

It was a team good enough to beat Afghanistan.

Pakistan team in the 2023 World Cup was also good enough to beat them, what happened there?

 

[gazza619]

Pakistan team in the 2023 World Cup was also good enough to beat them, what happened there?

Riz was not the captain. Thats y

 

[mominsaigol]

It was a team good enough to beat Afghanistan.

No it wasn't.

Our main team has been struggling to beat Afghanistan for over a decade and had to rely on one hit miracles to win.

They had wrecked us in 2014, but umar akmal who often fails supringly scored a 102 that day and took the side home, similarly no one would predict that naseem of all people would Slap 2 sixes and take the side of home.

In 2019 we won because of imad, bur even then we needed umpire luck and making wrong calls to get over the line.

The fact that shadab won a single game at all with such an inexperienced team speaks to his captaincy as babar wouldn't have even won a single game, Babar even with a decently strong team loses, he was in a winning position against IU in psl, but he lost due to him scolding the team, putting pressure on them, and making beyond stupid decisions such as burning out David Willey who was their best bowler but leaving 2 trundlers at the end.

Shadab is a horrible player but he's actually a good captain, the reality is Afghanistan vs Pakistan had been extremely close encounters since 2014 with them often being in the winning position but losing due to chocking.

Eventually in 2023 that luck run out since they improved their fast bowling and made the correct decision to chase rather then bat first. They destroyed us in 2023, and rizwan being captain wouldn't have changed a damn thing, they didn't beat us because babar was making questionable field decisions, they beat us cause they outclassed us in all 3 aspects, rizwan wouldn't do a damn thing if their bowling and batting is just tearing apart everything in sight.

Whether people like it or not current Afghanistan team is superior to current Pakistan team, they beat England, nearly beat Australia, wrecked and humiliated Pakistan, gave the top teams like India a better fight while Pakistan just rolled over and died.

 

[daytrader]

Spot on.

IU didn't win because of his captaincy, it was because IU had a deep batting line up and Imad had a sensational day.

ISLU has a winning formula from Misbah days and they haven't changed that template.

Strong foreign openers at the top, hard hitting Pakistani batters in the middle and packing the lower order with utility cricketers. Combined with 2-3 outstanding local pacers and the preference for chasing, makes it a successful side. Any captain can run this team on auto pilot.

Same template from season 1

 

[mominsaigol]

Spot on.

IU didn't win because of his captaincy, it was because IU had a deep batting line up and Imad had a sensational day.

That is completely false and untrue? What do you even mean?

PZ had beaten IU black and blue, Blame babar for being an idiot.

Babar was a trash captain who bowled put David Willey and let 2 trundles bowl the final overs, it's not like this is the first time he did this, he did it against sa as well.

Pz and MS had waystronger teams on paper, if you actually think a lower order comprised of haider Ali makes you a goat team and shadab batting at 4 makes IU the strongest team of the tournament then you need to drink your morning coffee.

 

[mominsaigol]

ISLU has a winning formula from Misbah days and they haven't changed that template.

Strong foreign openers at the top, hard hitting Pakistani batters in the middle and packing the lower order with utility cricketers. Combined with 2-3 outstanding local pacers and the preference for chasing, makes it a successful side. Any captain can run this team on auto pilot.

Same template from season 1

That's just weird considering misbah in the first psl during the final didn't do a damn thing in that game lol.

Quetta was the strongest team during 2016-2017, but they lost mainly cause of bad luck as well as the fact no one wanted to come to Pakistan so most of quetta team left and didn't come to pak.

What happened to quetta was the same as what happened to India during 2023 wc lol.

And misbah still coached IU in 2019 amd 2020 but didn't achieve anything.

Weird how you're discrediting shadab for not doing anything when misbah during those important times didn't do anything either.

Cricket is a team game, not a one man show.

 

[daytrader]

That's just weird considering misbah in the first psl during the final didn't do a damn thing in that game lol.

Quetta was the strongest team during 2016-2017, but they lost mainly cause of bad luck as well as the fact no one wanted to come to Pakistan so most of quetta team left and didn't come to pak.

What happened to quetta was the same as what happened to India during 2023 wc lol.

And misbah still coached IU in 2019 amd 2020 but didn't achieve anything.

Weird how you're discrediting shadab for not doing anything when misbah during those important times didn't do anything either.

Cricket is a team game, not a one man show.

And you are contradicting yourself by giving credit to Shadab as an individual and highlighting Misbah's failures as an individual only to go on to say it's a team game.

Misbah built a team and a legacy at ISLU. It doesnt mean the team will win every season but they do tend to win more than others because of the given template.

 

[mominsaigol]

And you are contradicting yourself by giving credit to Shadab as an individual and highlighting Misbah's failures as an individual only to go on to say it's a team game.

Misbah built a team and a legacy at ISLU. It doesnt mean the team will win every season but they do tend to win more than others because of the given template.

When did I contradict myself? Highlight where I contradicted myself?

I'll give you a headstart, check any thread, I've made it clear that shadab is a garbage player and performance wise he doesn't merit, but as a captain he merits it just fine.

You were the one who cited hypocrisy and I highlighted it plain and simple.

Also misbah didn't build anything, he drove the team to ruin by 2020 and was forced to leave as a coach lol.

But go on telling sweet little lies.

 

[daytrader]

When did I contradict myself? Highlight where I contradicted myself?

I'll give you a headstart, check any thread, I've made it clear that shadab is a garbage player and performance wise he doesn't merit, but as a captain he merits it just fine.

You were the one who cited hypocrisy and I highlighted it plain and simple.

Also misbah didn't build anything, he drove the team to ruin by 2020 and was forced to leave as a coach lol.

But go on telling sweet little lies.

You said "misbah in the first psl during the final didn't do a damn thing in that game lol." then you said "Weird how you're discrediting shadab for not doing anything when misbah during those important times didn't do anything either."

In both those lines you're crediting/discrediting individuals only to go on to say it's a team game. That's like a contradiction 101. If it's a team game then why are you blaming/crediting individuals?

Also as for my lies, can you tell me which part I said in my original post that is incorrect? Aside from Sharjeel, who btw is a hard hitting Pakistani batter, has ISLU ever had a Pakistani opener? Is ISLU not packing their lower middle order with utility cricketers? Do they not have a premium Pakistani pacer in all seasons? Do they not prefer to chase?

 

[mominsaigol]

You said "misbah in the first psl during the final didn't do a damn thing in that game lol." then you said "Weird how you're discrediting shadab for not doing anything when misbah during those important times didn't do anything either."

In both those lines you're crediting/discrediting individuals only to go on to say it's a team game. That's like a contradiction 101. If it's a team game then why are you blaming/crediting individuals?

Also as for my lies, can you tell me which part I said in my original post that is incorrect? Aside from Sharjeel, who btw is a hard hitting Pakistani batter, has ISLU ever had a Pakistani opener? Is ISLU not packing their lower middle order with utility cricketers? Do they not have a premium Pakistani pacer in all seasons? Do they not prefer to chase?

Don't accuse me of lying if you can't comprehend an argument and I certainly won't tolerate personal abuse. Better to stay quiet if you don't understand something, your'e not compelled to reply to every post

That is a complete lie, don't use complicated words to sound smarter, I'll see through it instantly and red flag 101, in debating don't follow up a question with a question, it's a fallacious argument,

You claimed shadab didn't do anything and the reason for his success is mainly because misbah set up a winning formula hence any idiot captain could have achieved victory,

I debunked it by illustrating how badly IU failed in 2020 under misbah's tenure, and the fact if you're claiming shadab didn't do anything as a captain or as a player in the final or in knockout stages neither did misbah.

That's all their is to it, it's a very simply reply and a simple debunk, every other point is either derailing the topic.

 

[daytrader]

That is a complete lie, don't use complicated words to sound smarter, I'll see through it instantly and red flag 101, in debating don't follow up a question with a question, it's a fallacious argument,

You claimed shadab didn't do anything and the reason for his success is mainly because misbah set up a winning formula hence any idiot captain could have achieved victory,

I debunked it by illustrating how badly IU failed in 2020 under misbah's tenure, and the fact if you're claiming shadab didn't do anything as a captain or as a player in the final or in knockout stages neither did misbah.

That's all their is to it, it's a very simply reply and a simple debunk, every other point is either derailing the topic.

Do you even read what you write? You have not refuted anything in the winning formula argument I presented. Just because they didn't make the playoffs one season doesn't mean they abandoned the formula. They stuck to it and continue to provide results. Since you're unable to argue on this point, you simply made it about what an argument is, how to debate and how good your debunking skills are. No one is interested in that. Also that's the very thing you're accusing me of which is 'derailing' from the topic.

And Shadab btw is an ISLU product through and through. He's very aware of this formula and sticks to it. To say he will have the same success in the PCT setup is just not logical as the dynamics of that team are different.

 

[mominsaigol]

Do you even read what you write? You have not refuted anything in the winning formula argument I presented. Just because they didn't make the playoffs one season doesn't mean they abandoned the formula. They stuck to it and continue to provide results. Since you're unable to argue on this point, you simply made it about what an argument is, how to debate and how good your debunking skills are. No one is interested in that. Also that's the very thing you're accusing me of which is 'derailing' from the topic. Yeh toh wohi baat ho gayi ke humara kutta, kutta. Tumahra kutta Tommy.

And Shadab btw is an ISLU product through and through. He's very aware of this formula and sticks to it. To say he will have the same success in the PCT setup is just not logical as the dynamics of that team are different.

It's not that they didn't make a playoff the finished 2nd last in 2020.

The winning formula argument wasn't the entirety of what you presented.

Again I'll repeat, you claimed misbah created the winning product and any captain could have led IU to victory because misbah laid a foundation for it.

The reality is Misbah ruined said foundation in 2020 when he was the coach.

Shadab's victory has got nothing to do with misbah.

 

[daytrader]

It's not that they didn't make a playoff the finished 2nd last in 2020.

The winning formula argument wasn't the entirety of what you presented.

Again I'll repeat, you claimed misbah created the winning product and any captain could have led IU to victory because misbah laid a foundation for it.

The reality is Misbah ruined said foundation in 2020 when he was the coach.

Shadab's victory has got nothing to do with misbah.

Again, as it takes a few tries to get you to understand, 1 bad season doesnt make ISLU a bad team. You're desperately trying to pin the blame on Misbah but it's simply not the case. The man was national coach and gave up his ISLU gig for PCT. Even after he left, there was no drastic change is ISLU's approach. The formula is still there.

Shadab learnt from the very best, he's successful because he's part of a great setup.

If you believe otherwise then please present arguments as to what Shadab did differently compared to previous seasons of ISLU