The concept of Hur-ul-Ain in Islam: is this not objectification of women?

[Sher Khan]

I have always wondered this as a practising Muslim. I live in the West, and therefore am aware of principles such as equality of women and treating them with respect. This is not to say non-Western countries are sexist but sexism does occur more often there.

In authentic Islamic texts as well as the Quran, their is mention of Hur-ul-Ain and that men receive multiple Hurs in Jannah. Some texts say this number is 72, but Allah knows best.

They are regarded as being "wide-eyed, tall and beautiful". Their are other descriptions of them written as well which could be inappropriate for this forum and I am not sure if their authenticity.

My question is this concept of rewarding men with attractive females is this not objectification and a disrespect of women?

I wonder what some females on this forum think of the concept?

 

[Justcrazy]

How is this disrespect to women ? Can you elaborate that ?

 

[Sher Khan]

How is this disrespect to women ? Can you elaborate that ?

It's as if women are some prize to be won. Rather than being equals. The inspiration to go to Jannah shouldn't be centred around being rewarded by Hurs in my opinion.

Think about it, how would your wife, sister or mother feel about this?

 

[IndoorCricket]

Not sure what u do with hoors when u have no body left!!!

 

[MenInG]

Not sure what u do with hoors when u have no body left!!!

Which is why this should not be taken as a physical thing - to me this is a state of mind.

 

[Sher Khan]

Which is why this should not be taken as a physical thing - to me this is a state of mind.

What do you mean by this? Can you please elaborate.

 

[MenInG]

What do you mean by this? Can you please elaborate.

I am not a scholar.

However, in my view, when as men we think of hurs, we think of gratification in a carnal sense. But the end goal is to feel content and satisfied - and the way you can do it is by pleasing Allah SWT by our actions in this world. This to me is what we are promised.

 

[IndoorCricket]

I am not a scholar.

However, in my view, when as men we think of hurs, we think of gratification in a carnal sense. But the end goal is to feel content and satisfied - and the way you can do it is by pleasing Allah SWT by our actions in this world. This to me is what we are promised.

Carnal satisfaction makes no sense after death. But dont the scholars have a different opinion on it? All the scholars of Islam, I have encountered, align with physical satisfaction.

 

[Sher Khan]

Carnal satisfaction makes no sense after death. But dont the scholars have a different opinion on it? All the scholars of Islam, I have encountered, align with physical satisfaction.

At the end of the day, Allah knows best. I agree the scholars try to make it seem as it will be a man and wife relationship type thing. But it could be that they say that to encourage youth to follow the right path.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

It's as if women are some prize to be won. Rather than being equals. The inspiration to go to Jannah shouldn't be centred around being rewarded by Hurs in my opinion.

Think about it, how would your wife, sister or mother feel about this?

Are you sure a “hoor” is exactly as a biological human female as we have on earth?

Do you know for sure that a hoor is not a different specie?

 

[Champ_Pal]

Which is why this should not be taken as a physical thing - to me this is a state of mind.

On the day of judgement, your body will be given too. Its not just souls I believe. Islamic heaven is physical unlike Christian heaven.

 

[ZoyaA]

It's as if women are some prize to be won. Rather than being equals. The inspiration to go to Jannah shouldn't be centred around being rewarded by Hurs in my opinion.

Think about it, how would your wife, sister or mother feel about this?

As a practicing Muslim woman, who also happens to be a sister, wife and a mother, I feel just fine, thank you.

Islam is clear about everything, the rewards and the punishments, this life and the afterlife and everything in between..why would I feel "disrespected" by something that serves as a motivation and/or deterrent to me especially when I have yet to experience that something physically..?

 

[SalimBhai]

I am not a scholar.

However, in my view, when as men we think of hurs, we think of gratification in a carnal sense. But the end goal is to feel content and satisfied - and the way you can do it is by pleasing Allah SWT by our actions in this world. This to me is what we are promised.

That takes some mental gymnastics to to come the conclusion of what you are saying

 

[MenInG]

That takes some mental gymnastics to to come the conclusion of what you are saying

Since you don't believe in our religion, you can think what you like.

 

[hitthestump]

My question is this concept of rewarding men with attractive females is this not objectification and a disrespect of women?

Men find beautiful women attractive - this is natural and there is nothing 'wrong' about this i assure you.

This desire has to be curtailed by societal mechanisms though as a woman's sexual desire has been created quite significantly different to a mans and this would create obvious problems if not managed.

In Jannah there will be no such concept. The Hur-ul-Ain will only have eyes for the souls that they have been assigned to. Your desire will be matched.

 

[happydavy]

Out of curiosity, what does Islam say about women who lead a good life, what does she recieve in heaven?

 

[greatest]

Out of curiosity, what does Islam say about women who lead a good life, what does she recieve in heaven?

Women and men have different sexual desires. Evolutionary psychology explains that men have a strong passion for women and physical attraction is the priority for selecting a mate and reproduction. They want to pass their genes to as many women as they can. Maybe that's the reason pious men will be rewarded with 70 virgins in Paradise with no strings attached.
By default, women tend to love a single man. They get attracted and want to marry a man who can protect, take care of her and her offspring and most importantly he won't cheat her. That's why traditionally women have got attracted to men with status, wealth and honesty rather than physical attractiveness.
I'm not a scholar nor an expert on this subject but in my opinion women will definitely get what they desire most but unlike men it will not be sexual satisfaction. Anyways, Allah (SWT) knows best.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Women and men have different sexual desires. Evolutionary psychology explains that men have a strong passion for women and physical attraction is the priority for selecting a mate and reproduction. They want to pass their genes to as many women as they can. Maybe that's the reason pious men will be rewarded with 70 virgins in Paradise with no strings attached.
By default, women tend to love a single man. They get attracted and want to marry a man who can protect, take care of her and her offspring and most importantly he won't cheat her. That's why traditionally women have got attracted to men with status, wealth and honesty rather than physical attractiveness.
I'm not a scholar nor an expert on this subject but in my opinion women will definitely get what they desire most but unlike men it will not be sexual satisfaction. Anyways, Allah (SWT) knows best.

Bro, the amount of cheating women do is equal to that of men. It takes 2 to tango. Women desire just like men. But when it comes to pregnancy, they prefer the man to protect her and her unborn child.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Since you don't believe in our religion, you can think what you like.

Please listen to what your scholars say about what men get in heaven. There is lot of material on Youtube.

What you are saying about being contentful and happy is Christian heaven.

 

[Sher Khan]

Out of curiosity, what does Islam say about women who lead a good life, what does she recieve in heaven?

I have heard that she gets married to the husband she was with in the world. So the husband gets her and the 71 or however many others as his hoors.

A lot of Muslim women say this is unfair, because most Muslim women get married to their cousins, etc. Someone they were unhappy to marry in the first place.

But ultimately, Allah knows best.

 

[Manager101]

I have heard that she gets married to the husband she was with in the world. So the husband gets her and the 71 or however many others as his hoors.

A lot of Muslim women say this is unfair, because most Muslim women get married to their cousins, etc. Someone they were unhappy to marry in the first place.

But ultimately, Allah knows best.

From where did you make this up "A lot of muslim women say" ?

 

[Sher Khan]

From where did you make this up "A lot of muslim women say" ?

I have 3 sisters! Also I'm talking from a general perspective of what I've heard from my community.

 

[greatest]

Bro, the amount of cheating women do is equal to that of men. It takes 2 to tango. Women desire just like men. But when it comes to pregnancy, they prefer the man to protect her and her unborn child.

Bro... I got your point. Thanks for the input. Whereas evolutionary, men can impregnate as many women as they like in a year, women have limited choices or no choice once they get pregnant. Men have more sexual options than women. Also, women ability to reproduce most probably comes to an end in there 40s.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I have 3 sisters! Also I'm talking from a general perspective of what I've heard from my community.

You have three sisters who talk about sex in the afterlife with you?

 

[Suleiman]

As a Muslim, terms like objectification etc regarding this topic don’t arise for me. If Allah has decreed it, that’s the reason for me to believe it. I don’t have to try and understand it through my limited human brain nor through the trendy terms and ideas of today. I don’t have to justify it by trying to explain it through man made ideas and terms like objectification etc. I know He is infinitely wise, and knows His creation the best, in this case, the role of a man and a woman, and the role of the Hur-Ul-Ayn.

 

[SalimBhai]

Yes a man would like to be with his wife from the previous life when he has 70 others waiting for him. I would like to see that.

 

[Sher Khan]

As a Muslim, terms like objectification etc regarding this topic don’t arise for me. If Allah has decreed it, that’s the reason for me to believe it. I don’t have to try and understand it through my limited human brain nor through the trendy terms and ideas of today. I don’t have to justify it by trying to explain it through man made ideas and terms like objectification etc. I know He is infinitely wise, and knows His creation the best, in this case, the role of a man and a woman, and the role of the Hur-Ul-Ayn.

This is a good point that you make. As Muslims our core belief is that Allah is All-knowing. Our limited human mind can only think from a human perspective.

It could be that Hur-ul-Ain are nothing like a worldly female and the relationship between them and a man is nothing like a husband-wife relation.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

Yes a man would like to be with his wife from the previous life when he has 70 others waiting for him. I would like to see that.

By becoming what? Be one of those 70 other hoors?

 

[SalimBhai]

By becoming what? Be one of those 70 other hoors?

a man staying with his wife when he has 70 others he can be with...

 

[Champ_Pal]

As a Muslim, terms like objectification etc regarding this topic don’t arise for me. If Allah has decreed it, that’s the reason for me to believe it. I don’t have to try and understand it through my limited human brain nor through the trendy terms and ideas of today. I don’t have to justify it by trying to explain it through man made ideas and terms like objectification etc. I know He is infinitely wise, and knows His creation the best, in this case, the role of a man and a woman, and the role of the Hur-Ul-Ayn.

So basically you should not think and question. You should just obey.

 

[SalimBhai]

It is intriguing to observe that individuals often tend to employ logical reasoning when evaluating and critiquing beliefs and practices of religions other than their own, while sometimes exhibiting a different perspective when it comes to their own faith. For instance, during a recent discussion on Hinduism, non-Hindus highlighted perceived inconsistencies and illogical aspects. However, when similar observations are made about their own religion, some individuals invoke the notion that the human mind may be incapable of fully comprehending the ways of their respective god.

 

[SalimBhai]

Women and men have different sexual desires. Evolutionary psychology explains that men have a strong passion for women and physical attraction is the priority for selecting a mate and reproduction. They want to pass their genes to as many women as they can. Maybe that's the reason pious men will be rewarded with 70 virgins in Paradise with no strings attached.
By default, women tend to love a single man. They get attracted and want to marry a man who can protect, take care of her and her offspring and most importantly he won't cheat her. That's why traditionally women have got attracted to men with status, wealth and honesty rather than physical attractiveness.
I'm not a scholar nor an expert on this subject but in my opinion women will definitely get what they desire most but unlike men it will not be sexual satisfaction. Anyways, Allah (SWT) knows best.

And who are these men cheating with?.........women. So it's 50-50.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

So basically you should not think and question. You should just obey.

Once you have formed the Islamic faith and have submitted to God then yes, it's all about trying your best to live a peaceful and morally cautious life under the guidance provided by God, because Islamic doctrine expects the practitioner to support his/her faith by his/her good actions.

A taqwa practicing Muslim is more worried about the questions he will be asked in the court of Allah where there will be no place to run and no where to hide.


And hence, to OP
Some scholars have guided Muslims to avoid this very cunning trap of Shaitain where a Muslim starts theological questions just for the sake of questions, and argues just for the sake of argument. This path has a great potential of getting astray.
Scholars say that you should try to ask theological questions ONLY if you are a facing practical situation in your life that deems the questions appropriate.

The questions about the unseen and unknown is not we should be thinking too much about. And even if we do, we should tell ourselves that I have more things in my practical life to worry about rather than Hur and Ain - because I wouldn't be questioned about these things.

In Quran, Allah clearly says that you are provided with "limited" knowledge.

And fact of the matter is, we will NEVER know EVERYTHING.
However, what we DO know in the Islamic theology, is sufficient enough of a guidance, under which we can live our entire lives the final bell rings, and our time is up.

It's your own call though.

 

[Suleiman]

This is a good point that you make. As Muslims our core belief is that Allah is All-knowing. Our limited human mind can only think from a human perspective.

It could be that Hur-ul-Ain are nothing like a worldly female and the relationship between them and a man is nothing like a husband-wife relation.

Yep.

It’s very simple actually. If you can accept that Allah created everything that has existed, currently exists and will exist, then how can you not accept that He has infinite knowledge regarding His own creation as well? Including male and female dynamics, including proper societal structures etc down to every micro behavior that we exhibit as humans? And that His commands and systems He has put in place will be congruent to what is best for all creation?

That’s what I meant in my first post in the thread that these questions don’t really arise for me now. And again, I’m not belittling you or anything, we all are at different stages on this journey and by no means am I a scholar nor a “pauncha Wa insaan”.

But it’s just being able to see what Allah is saying without filtering and trying to “fit” the Hadith and Quranic verses into modern “standards” (which change every decade anyway, lol)

 

[Suleiman]

So basically you should not think and question. You should just obey.

When it comes to a Muslim’s relationship with Allah, yep. That’s the level of love and trust you have for Him. Who am I to question my Creator? Whose knowledge knows no bounds and without His permission I would cease to exist in an instant?

As a non Muslim though, exploring, asking questions etc is obviously fine. Because that’s how you will learn and eventually connect the dots. But even then, it’s to a certain degree. Those who revert to Islam also ultimately realize once they have enough answers from Quran / Hadith / Direct experience that it’s the word of The Most High, and whatever He has revealed is the truth.

Even as a Muslim, it doesn’t mean I cannot seek out the reasonings already given as long as they are in the Quran and Hadith. But at the same time I don’t fret over things for which Allah has not gone into detail and reasons. I am human, and there’s certain things my mind will not be able to comprehend. I’m fine with that. I accept that.

As a Muslim you put your full trust in Allah. Regarding everything.

Allah knows best.

 

[Theanonymousone]

I believe one should question our faith and only then will it lead to the true path.
If we blindly follow the indoctrination, how is it any different from typical brainwashing?

As a Hindu, I believe that few things from our religious texts doesn't make moral and ethical sense at out current age. And I don't intend to justify them too. Rather we can accept that they are not in our values and accept the good part in our religion.

From an outsider perspective, this 72 virgins concept is completely immoral and shouldn't be the reason to go into the righteous path.

The current generation itself is facing issues to deprioritize the carnal desires and give importance to whats needed. And this concept makes it worse I feel.

 

[Sher Khan]

Look, From an atheist or non-Muslim perspective yes it may sound strange for Muslims to believe God's word without questioning. But at the end of the day our knowledge is not infinite, we cannot see the unseen.

This is where the belief in Allah is tested, a Muslim with true belief knows that Allah is sufficient.

As humans our thinking can only go upto the level of thinking in terms of worldly things such as marriage, reproduction, etc.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

It's an interesting topic. I don't think there is an element of objectification here because there is a clear distinction between hur's and human women.

Basically I think the Quranic description of paradise is such that a persons every need and desire is fulfilled, and they will reside in comfort. Both men and women will get what they desire.

"We are your protecting friends in the life of the world and in the Hereafter. There ye will have (all) that your souls desire, and there ye will have (all) for which ye pray."

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I believe one should question our faith and only then will it lead to the true path.
If we blindly follow the indoctrination, how is it any different from typical brainwashing?

As a Hindu, I believe that few things from our religious texts doesn't make moral and ethical sense at out current age. And I don't intend to justify them too. Rather we can accept that they are not in our values and accept the good part in our religion.

From an outsider perspective, this 72 virgins concept is completely immoral and shouldn't be the reason to go into the righteous path.

The current generation itself is facing issues to deprioritize the carnal desires and give importance to whats needed. And this concept makes it worse I feel.

Hinduism is all-encompassing therefore you cannot be an outsider. The notion of 72 virgins must then be seen from within as if it was part of your faith. Other than that small correction I have no issues with your view.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

It is intriguing to observe that individuals often tend to employ logical reasoning when evaluating and critiquing beliefs and practices of religions other than their own, while sometimes exhibiting a different perspective when it comes to their own faith. For instance, during a recent discussion on Hinduism, non-Hindus highlighted perceived inconsistencies and illogical aspects. However, when similar observations are made about their own religion, some individuals invoke the notion that the human mind may be incapable of fully comprehending the ways of their respective god.

This is a good point and partly why I have steered away from black and white discussions about comparative religion.

Until you have immersed yourself in a religions scholarly works, theology, symoblism and knowledge bank then cherry picking certain words/phrases to make a point, doesn't do justice to the complexities of the topic.

On PP I have also seen the reverse to the example you mentioned. I think it was in Nipur Sharma thread where comments were made about Buraq and a muslim PPer asked a Hindu why they ridicule Buraq but are happy to believe an army of monkeys invaded Sri Lanka.

 

[SalimBhai]

This is a good point and partly why I have steered away from black and white discussions about comparative religion.

Until you have immersed yourself in a religions scholarly works, theology, symoblism and knowledge bank then cherry picking certain words/phrases to make a point, doesn't do justice to the complexities of the topic.

On PP I have also seen the reverse to the example you mentioned. I think it was in Nipur Sharma thread where comments were made about Buraq and a muslim PPer asked a Hindu why they ridicule Buraq but are happy to believe an army of monkeys invaded Sri Lanka.

Both notions appear nonsensical to me, as they lack logical coherence. Interestingly, in a hypothetical scenario where the beliefs were reversed—where Hindus subscribed to the notion of 72 virgins, while Muslims embraced the idea of monkeys launching attacks—adherents from each respective group would unquestioningly embrace and deride the other's stance.

 

[KingKhanWC]

These are metaphors and open to different rulings.

If the OP or others esp Islamaphobes really want to know, go to a scholar, there are none on here.

But in short, very well put by Sheikh Hamza. Simple enough for all to understand.

 

[SalimBhai]

These are metaphors and open to different rulings.

If the OP or others esp Islamaphobes really want to know, go to a scholar, there are none on here.

But in short, very well put by Sheikh Hamza. Simple enough for all to understand.

That’s a terrible explanation. He really had to dig deep to come up with that explanation. It’s so much better to just admit that I don’t believe that to be true and I find it offensive and move on. . You look like a fool defending it.

 

[KingKhanWC]

That’s a terrible explanation. He really had to dig deep to come up with that explanation. It’s so much better to just admit that I don’t believe that to be true and I find it offensive and move on. . You look like a fool defending it.

Sure you know better.

Debate what he said??

And if you believe your version, tell the elder men in your family or if you really believe it throw them out of their house, you live in.

 

[SalimBhai]

Sure you know better.

Debate what he said??

And if you believe your version, tell the elder men in your family or if you really believe it throw them out of their house, you live in.

What are you on about. You make no sense. You are free to believe whatever you want.

 

[FastBowlingAllrounder]

And who are these men cheating with?.........women. So it's 50-50.

But aren't the mistresses usually single anyway?

 

[Justcrazy]

It's as if women are some prize to be won. Rather than being equals. The inspiration to go to Jannah shouldn't be centred around being rewarded by Hurs in my opinion.

Think about it, how would your wife, sister or mother feel about this?

There are many things which have been mentioned about Paradise , hoors are not everything but a part of that.
In Paradise people will be given what they desire in this life in superior form.

Sex is an attraction in this world as well , and those who reach paradise are those who retrained themselves from prohibited sexual incidents despite having means to do that. What is wrong in rewarding the men for that .

Moreover Hoors are Not humnas , they are a different entities.

Women and Men are equal in Islam , they are not identical. And in world also accepts this . I can give practical examples.
If you feel that Islam does not give human rights , then I am sorry brother , you need to study other religions , how much rights they have given women.

And finally , you think that you know something better than your creator ?

 

[Justcrazy]

Are you sure a “hoor” is exactly as a biological human female as we have on earth?

Do you know for sure that a hoor is not a different specie?

Brother , Hurs are not humans , it is a different entity .

Paradise is for the people who have gone through the test of the world .

 

[IndoorCricket]

Brother , Hurs are not humans , it is a different entity .

Paradise is for the people who have gone through the test of the world .

So u can have sex with not a human?

 

[Champ_Pal]

Brother , Hurs are not humans , it is a different entity .

Paradise is for the people who have gone through the test of the world .

They may be paradise living beings. The way they are described shows that they resemble humans.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

Brother , Hurs are not humans , it is a different entity .

Paradise is for the people who have gone through the test of the world .

yes, that's exactly what I am saying.

The OP tends to have started off with the wrong assertion thinking that a hur is just like a biological human female.

IMO, it's NOT. And hence it should not be classified with all of the same humanistic standards that we use in this world for biological human females.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

So u can have sex with not a human?

Will we be humans in the paradise, just as exactly as what we are in this world? All the same traits? Aging? disease? the need of deification?

 

[IndoorCricket]

Will we be humans in the paradise, just as exactly as what we are in this world? All the same traits? Aging? disease? the need of deification?

We turn into something else other human and have sex with some other non-human entity? And why 72 ?

 

[Mamoon]

Islam, like all religions, is full of metaphors and symbolism. The problem with most scholars and Muslims is that they take everything in a literal sense.

We have to understand that Islam’s message is timeless, i.e. it can be applied to any time period or generation but the examples are specific to the time period during which the message was revealed.

The description of heaven in Islam is relevant for the people of 7th century Arabia not 21st century West.

If I ask you to describe what heaven would look like to 7th century Arab bedouins, what would you tell them?

Heaven will have rivers of milk and honey, trees with giant fruits that would be sweeter than anything they have tasted, houses made of gold etc.

Polygamy and sex slaves were common in that culture so having 99 wives of indescribable beauty was not far from their idea of what heaven should be like.

Most of the companions of the Prophet PBUH consumed alcohol before embracing Islam so they were also told that they will be able to drink alcohol to their hearts’ content in heaven as a reward for their abstinence in this world.

If you are a non-believer, the concept of heaven and hell cannot be explained with logic. Faith starts where logic ends and you either believe in it or not.

However, if you are a believer and the description of heaven does not make sense to you, you should understand that the description was tailored for a specific generation of people and in my understanding, each person’s heaven would be different.

Your heaven is what your heart desires and that will be your reward for doing good in this world and living your life in accordance with the teachings of Islam.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

We turn into something else other human and have sex with some other non-human entity? And why 72 ?

perhaps the sex drive is so high that you we would need at least 72?

Your heaven does not have hurs? What would you do there all day?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Islam, like all religions, is full of metaphors and symbolism. The problem with most scholars and Muslims is that they take everything in a literal sense.

We have to understand that Islam’s message is timeless, i.e. it can be applied to any time period or generation but the examples are specific to the time period during which the message was revealed.

The description of heaven in Islam is relevant for the people of 7th century Arabia not 21st century West.

If I ask you to describe what heaven would look like to 7th century Arab bedouins, what would you tell them?

Heaven will have rivers of milk and honey, trees with giant fruits that would be sweeter than anything they have tasted, houses made of gold etc.

Polygamy and sex slaves were common in that culture so having 99 wives of indescribable beauty was not far from their idea of what heaven should be like.

Most of the companions of the Prophet PBUH consumed alcohol before embracing Islam so they were also told that they will be able to drink alcohol to their hearts’ content in heaven as a reward for their abstinence in this world.

If you are a non-believer, the concept of heaven and hell cannot be explained with logic. Faith starts where logic ends and you either believe in it or not.

However, if you are a believer and the description of heaven does not make sense to you, you should understand that the description was tailored for a specific generation of people and in my understanding, each person’s heaven would be different.

Your heaven is what your heart desires and that will be your reward for doing good in this world and living your life in accordance with the teachings of Islam.

Yes that sounds awful doesn't it. For many people a good crossword puzzle and a nice cup of tea would be more heaven in the 21st century. Sounds like life in everyday Milton Keynes.

 

[IndoorCricket]

perhaps the sex drive is so high that you we would need at least 72?

Your heaven does not have hurs? What would you do there all day?

Yes our heavens also have beautiful women. Not some other worldly entities. If you do rightful deeds u will go to heaven and njoy pleasures there. But u will take rebirth.

But the core philosophy says heaven is a state of mind. We might already be in heaven. The ultimate aim is not to go to heaven but to stop the cycle of birth and death.

 

[Mamoon]

Yes that sounds awful doesn't it. For many people a good crossword puzzle and a nice cup of tea would be more heaven in the 21st century. Sounds like life in everyday Milton Keynes.

Might sound awful for someone who loves his wife so much that he is disgusted by the notion of being with 99 other women.

Or it might sound awful for someone who bats for the other team.

 

[RexRex]

Islam, like all religions, is full of metaphors and symbolism. The problem with most scholars and Muslims is that they take everything in a literal sense.

We have to understand that Islam’s message is timeless, i.e. it can be applied to any time period or generation but the examples are specific to the time period during which the message was revealed.

The description of heaven in Islam is relevant for the people of 7th century Arabia not 21st century West.

If I ask you to describe what heaven would look like to 7th century Arab bedouins, what would you tell them?

Heaven will have rivers of milk and honey, trees with giant fruits that would be sweeter than anything they have tasted, houses made of gold etc.

Polygamy and sex slaves were common in that culture so having 99 wives of indescribable beauty was not far from their idea of what heaven should be like.

Most of the companions of the Prophet PBUH consumed alcohol before embracing Islam so they were also told that they will be able to drink alcohol to their hearts’ content in heaven as a reward for their abstinence in this world.

If you are a non-believer, the concept of heaven and hell cannot be explained with logic. Faith starts where logic ends and you either believe in it or not.

However, if you are a believer and the description of heaven does not make sense to you, you should understand that the description was tailored for a specific generation of people and in my understanding, each person’s heaven would be different.

Your heaven is what your heart desires and that will be your reward for doing good in this world and living your life in accordance with the teachings of Islam.

a holy book must be timeless and understandable for all eternity, the idea of metaphors is a cop out.

but you're idea that beautiful women are the 7th century's idea of heaven but not for 21st century .. that is funny.

 

[Mamoon]

a holy book must be timeless and understandable for all eternity, the idea of metaphors is a cop out.

but you're idea that beautiful women are the 7th century's idea of heaven but not for 21st century .. that is funny.

What’s funny is your inability to understand that not every man would want to be with 99 women. Perhaps some men love their wives so much that their idea of heaven would be to be with their wife only and not 99 other women.

There is a difference between the message of a holy book and examples specified within that book. If the Quran was revealed today, the examples would be different.

Again, if you are a non-believer I cannot convince you. There is no logic here. It is all faith. You either believe or you don’t. Whatever I say will be a cop out for you if you are a non-believer.

 

[SalimBhai]

What’s funny is your inability to understand that not every man would want to be with 99 women. Perhaps some men love their wives so much that their idea of heaven would be to be with their wife only and not 99 other women.

There is a difference between the message of a holy book and examples specified within that book. If the Quran was revealed today, the examples would be different.

Again, if you are a non-believer I cannot convince you. There is no logic here. It is all faith. You either believe or you don’t. Whatever I say will be a cop out for you if you are a non-believer.

I would like to meet that man. Hhahahhahahaa. Come on man. I have never meet a man in 50 years who would wan to be with his wife . That’s a fact

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Hurs isn't the ultimate goal for going to the heaven nor are hurs the pinnacle of afterlife.

 

[SalimBhai]

Hurs isn't the ultimate goal for going to the heaven nor are hurs the pinnacle of afterlife.

It’s the most talked about subject my the Maulanas . That’s the ace in the hole card they love o play .

 

[IndoorCricket]

It’s the most talked about subject my the Maulanas . That’s the ace in the hole card they love o play .

I saw many Maulanas who are very influential talking about this subject without any nuances and metaphors.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

It’s the most talked about subject my the Maulanas . That’s the ace in the hole card they love o play .

If you hung around with Maulanas who only talk about hoors, then you weren't taught proper Islam. There are tons of topics that take precedence in lectures and discussions that are more important in Islam.

 

[SalimBhai]

If you hung around with Maulanas who only talk about hoors, then you weren't taught proper Islam. There are tons of topics that take precedence in lectures and discussions that are more important in Islam.

Aah yes. I was guided theory. Ok

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Aah yes. I was guided theory. Ok

Whatever you're using are theories as well.

One can choose to believe in his religion without having the urge to think about other religions too.

What you actually use is, all religions are bad, I am the only one enlightened theory.

 

[SalimBhai]

Whatever you're using are theories as well.

One can choose to believe in his religion without having the urge to think about other religions too.

What you actually use is, all religions are bad, I am the only one enlightened theory.

I don’t know about the enlightenment one part. Never said that on this forum. But yes I find all religions to e fake, made up with extremely bad blue system. For myself avoid it. Not my cup of tea. But you are free to follow any. There is no compulsion in secularism.

 

[Champ_Pal]

These are metaphors and open to different rulings.

If the OP or others esp Islamaphobes really want to know, go to a scholar, there are none on here.

But in short, very well put by Sheikh Hamza. Simple enough for all to understand.

Jannat is real and Virgins are not spiritual.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/7Dw5NmqJ0Wo" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[KingKhanWC]

Jannat is real and Virgins are not spiritual.

Yes its real and people have differing opinions but classical Islam agrees with Sheikh Hamza.

But take the view of whoever helps you confirm with your anti-Islam mindset.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Jannat is real and Virgins are not spiritual.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/7Dw5NmqJ0Wo" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I like MTJ and some Tablighi stuff because they focus on manners and ethics.

But overall they have the dumbest and lamest arguments when it comes to religious topics.

 

[Kroll]

Lets be honest, the reward of multiple beautiful women would sound good to any man, why is the OP complaining?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Lets be honest, the reward of multiple beautiful women would sound good to any man, why is the OP complaining?

Well as Mamoon explained already, not every man appreciates beautiful women, so for someone who prefers male company might find 99 beauties very far from heaven. They might prefer to be pampered by a butch cowboy wearing leathers.

Look everyone has their own idea what they would like heaven to look like, personally I wouldn't object to 72 women I reluctantly admit but then I'm a simple fella.

 

[Kroll]

Well as Mamoon explained already, not every man appreciates beautiful women, so for someone who prefers male company might find 99 beauties very far from heaven. They might prefer to be pampered by a butch cowboy wearing leathers.

Look everyone has their own idea what they would like heaven to look like, personally I wouldn't object to 72 women I reluctantly admit but then I'm a simple fella.

Of course but presumption was that the men are straight as any other "side" is forbidden in Islam. Not read Mamoon's take on the topic and will catch up later for a laugh.

 

[HappyWarsFan]

Yeah, OP makes a good point. I'm a practicing Muslim but yeah stuff like this always bothers me.

 

[SalimBhai]

This Maulana sahib always gives me a laugh. He goes in detail on the whole hors topic.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zG2VOSMFM1Q&pp=ygUkVGhhcmtpIG1hdWx2aSBodXJzIGluIGhlYXZlbiBwYWtpc3Ru

 

[Colorblind Genius]

Yeah, OP makes a good point. I'm a practicing Muslim but yeah stuff like this always bothers me.

Why does it bother you?
In the hereafter, you won't be asked to define what's hur and it's so called "objectification" by human standards?

We will be asked how honestly did we spend our lives under the guidance of God?

As Quran says,


فَمَن يَعْمَلْ مِثْقَالَ ذَرَّةٍ خَيْرًا يَرَهُ – So whoever does an atom’s weight of good will see it,

وَمَن يَعْمَلْ مِثْقَالَ ذَرَّةٍ شَرًّا يَرَهُ – And whoever does an atom’s weight of evil will see it.


We should be conscious of these verses instead of getting bothered by hur and Buraq.

Focus on what matters. That's a wise choice to take, IMO.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

This Maulana sahib always gives me a laugh. He goes in detail on the whole hors topic.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zG2VOSMFM1Q&pp=ygUkVGhhcmtpIG1hdWx2aSBodXJzIGluIGhlYXZlbiBwYWtpc3Ru

lol yeah dude
These are the kind of good stuff that make it a heaven.

Otherwise, if we are to worship God 5 times a day, get up every morning to go to work, pay bills and pay taxes in heaven, then why is even called a heaven?
I wouldn't wanna go to such a heaven.

Heaven must have lots n lots of good food n great sex. There should be no worry of any kind. Like getting sick, getting old or weak, making anyone pregnant and paying child alimony, having no jealously, malice and vengeance in our hearts, there should be no praying and worshipping God - and again, no worry of any kind.

This is what makes it heaven, isn't it?

 

[Kroll]

lol yeah dude
These are the kind of good stuff that make it a heaven.

Otherwise, if we are to worship God 5 times a day, get up every morning to go to work, pay bills and pay taxes in heaven, then why is even called a heaven?
I wouldn't wanna go to such a heaven.

Heaven must have lots n lots of good food n great sex. There should be no worry of any kind. Like getting sick, getting old or weak, making anyone pregnant and paying child alimony, having no jealously, malice and vengeance in our hearts, there should be no praying and worshipping God - and again, no worry of any kind.

This is what makes it heaven, isn't it?

Exactly, I guess we all need to educate ourselves before crying about things we don't have a great understanding about.

And obviously detractors try to frame is as Muslims are evil, Muslims are obsessively lusty and so forth and so on. When things couldn't be further from the truth.

 

[SalimBhai]

lol yeah dude
These are the kind of good stuff that make it a heaven.

Otherwise, if we are to worship God 5 times a day, get up every morning to go to work, pay bills and pay taxes in heaven, then why is even called a heaven?
I wouldn't wanna go to such a heaven.

Heaven must have lots n lots of good food n great sex. There should be no worry of any kind. Like getting sick, getting old or weak, making anyone pregnant and paying child alimony, having no jealously, malice and vengeance in our hearts, there should be no praying and worshipping God - and again, no worry of any kind.

This is what makes it heaven, isn't it?

And the women get what???? Believing all this is an insult to your intelligence