The shocking hypocrisy levelled at Salman Butt - Why should he be treated different to Amir or Asif?

[shaz619]

Did Salman Butt point a gun at Asif and Amir to fix?

Either you are for or against the trio returning to the Pakistani team, how can anyone be in-between?

Am reading comments such as "We Pakistan fans will never forgive Salman" ) ) you got to be kidding me, the same fans write poetry about Amir and sacrifice cows in the hope that Asif returns.

Salman Butt deserves maybe deserves a little more criticism because he was the captain but to suggest he single handedly was responsible for damaging Pakistan cricket is absolutely moronic, it was a TEAM EFFORT; e.g Amir and Asif both played their part.

Asif did not have to bowl those no balls nor did Amir, both are VICTIMS OF THEIR OWN DEEDS.

Salman Butt tends to get 70% of the blame for the entire spot fixing fiasco, Asif 25% and hero/true-son-of-Pakistan Amir about 5%. I don't agree with these percentages and they are totally unfair.

Now I bought this up since non-cricketing reasons are repeatedly being offered for folk not wanting him to return to the Pakistan team and they just don't hold up unless you believe Amir, Asif and Butt should not play international cricket.

 

[IMMY69]

I hope Salman Butt never plays for Pakistan again.

 

[ExpressPacer]

There is no shame in accepting the fact that he was the mastermind of the spotfixing saga. And therefore, he deserves to be treated the way he is being treated.

However, he doesn't make the team on merit anyway so what's the point of discussing something over and over again..

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] preposterous! I actually am not in favour of Butt coming back specifically due to his age and feel we should invest in youth but if he is selected based on his domestic performances and returns can I really argue against it? not really and can I really argue against it based on the logic that he destroyed Pakistan cricket in 2010 all on his own? hell no!

 

[Gotham Cronie]

Ok, let's treat them the same and judge them by talent.

Butt still doesn't merit a recall.

 

[shaz619]

There is no shame in accepting the fact that he was the mastermind of the spotfixing saga. And therefore, he deserves to be treated the way he is being treated.

However, he doesn't make the team on merit anyway so what's the point of discussing something over and over again..

Mastermind is a very very strong word brother! and what were Amir and Asif, poor, naive little bache ?

 

[GLORY OF '92]

All 3 are the same.

We committed suicide the moment we selected Amir.

Sharjeel and the massacre in Australia/NZ are the result.

God does not forgive the corrupt so easily.

 

[shaz619]

Ok, let's treat them the same and judge them by talent.

Butt still doesn't merit a recall.

Well you've already indirectly stated that you don't want him back based on non-cricketing reasons! so we need to address that point before we get to the "still doesn't merit a recall" bit

 

[shaz619]

All 3 are the same.

We committed suicide the moment we selected Amir.

Sharjeel and the massacre in Australia/NZ are the result.

God does not forgive the corrupt so easily.

I totally respect your opinion, at least you're not among those who are inconsistent in their views

 

[GLORY OF '92]

I totally respect your opinion, at least you're not among those who are inconsistent in their views

Well I predicted the Sharjeel situation.

 

[Junaids]

On merit Salman Butt should be in the Test starting eleven. Twin centuries and MoM in the QEA Final showed it.

But you don't need another over-30 in the team.

Three is the strict maximum, which means:

1. Pick and stick with Azhar, Shafiq and Sarfraz.

2. Yasir Shah should be replaced immediately by Shadab Khan, even though he doesn't yet have his control.

3. Salman Butt is too old to be considered. Try Imam-up-Haq instead.

4. Mohammad Asif and Sohail Khan are too old to be considered.

5. Fawad Alam and Mohammad Hafeez are too old to be considered.

 

[ExpressPacer]

Mastermind is a very very strong word brother! and what were Amir and Asif, poor, naive little bache ?

To be honest, I was against the selection of Amir in the first place, but now that he's there - the best you can do is not make matters worse by ignoring Salman Butt and Asif.

But, yes, I agree with PCB have to be fair. If they say they have no problem in selecting Salman, then there shouldn't be any two ways about it.

 

[shaz619]

All 3 are the same.

We committed suicide the moment we selected Amir.

Sharjeel and the massacre in Australia/NZ are the result.

God does not forgive the corrupt so easily.

Do you believe in Allah? and are a member of Islam?

The first verse in the holy Quran is translated as follows:

"In the name of Allah , the Entirely Merciful, the Especially Merciful."

So I can't agree with you on that one, sorry buddy; according to the laws of God in general he loves those who forgive and seek forgiveness; he also does forgive easily.

 

[tahir_dj]

Salmaan butt is still treated better than whay M. Asif has to go through.

 

[Pete Rose]

Agree with OP either select all corrupt players or none

 

[shaz619]

On merit Salman Butt should be in the Test starting eleven. Twin centuries and MoM in the QEA Final showed it.

But you don't need another over-30 in the team.

Three is the strict maximum, which means:

1. Pick and stick with Azhar, Shafiq and Sarfraz.

2. Yasir Shah should be replaced immediately by Shadab Khan, even though he doesn't yet have his control.

3. Salman Butt is too old to be considered. Try Imam-up-Haq instead.

4. Mohammad Asif and Sohail Khan are too old to be considered.

5. Fawad Alam and Mohammad Hafeez are too old to be considered.

Agree with this generally, you seriously would drop Yasir Shah! I would never play for a local club team lead by you Junaids So Shadab would peak at 30 and then you would drop him and replace him with a newbie even if he were taking a bucket load of wickets due to your oldie quota aha, it takes to develop bowlers and we should include them in the team but not at the expense of performing players

 

[shaz619]

You guys are too much my word! am eating grapes and strawberries to cool me head

 

[IMMY69]

All 3 are the same.

We committed suicide the moment we selected Amir.

Sharjeel and the massacre in Australia/NZ are the result.

God does not forgive the corrupt so easily.

That doesn't bode well for the vast majority of Pakistanis living in Pakistan.

 

[IMMY69]

Mastermind is a very very strong word brother! and what were Amir and Asif, poor, naive little bache ?

Two wrongs do not make a right!

I was against Amir's comeback too.

Still think he's the most talented bowler we have BUT he shouldn't have been allowed back into the fold.

Age and nativity is a valid defence so is the fact that he admitted guilt whereas Butt was shouting his innocence to whoever was willing to listen..

BUT spot fixing is spot fixing and there should be no leeway for anyone caught doing it.

 

[Pakpak]

Well I predicted the Sharjeel situation.

...which has nothing to do with Amir. Pakistanis were fixing long before Amir came and will do so long after he is gone. If being internationally humiliated, jailed, cursed at won't deter someone then life-long bans won't either.

 

[Slog]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION]

Salman Butt had a very poor season and while an average of under 50 isnt some ATG performance to begin with its not like he was consistent. Even this record is dependant on one match

If you take out the one match then his average for the WHOLE season drops down to 36!!

He had a very inconsistent seasons and if he wasnt infamous for being a fixer his record would be lost in the sea of other mediocre records. He was 20th in the best averages for the season for example

His performance doesnt merit a recall. Dont even need to talk about his history

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION]



He had a very inconsistent seasons and if he wasnt infamous for being a fixer his record would be lost in the sea of other mediocre records. He was 20th in the best averages for the season for example

His performance doesnt merit a recall. Dont even need to talk about his history

He was the 6th highest leading run scorer in the entire country out of a population of millions. His batting average was about 1 run less than 50 and he did the business in the final

But sure if those are not acceptable for people then fine but don't use that to sugar coat their real reason which is because he's a fixer blah blah who orchestrated the spot fixing ordeal because their logic does not hold up when they want to give Amir or an Asif a cuddle.

 

[sam_ahm]

I actually feel sorry for Salman because had it not been for the fixing in PSL, Salman was all set to be in the test team for West Indies atleast as far as I have read on the internet. This time he was punished for something he has no relation or control whatsoever.

However, I believe another good domestic season should see Butt back in the side, at the moment the biggest plus point for salman is that Inzamam has always spoken in favor of his return.
Salman should keep hope and simply focus on scoring runs.

 

[IMMY69]

I actually feel sorry for Salman because had it not been for the fixing in PSL, Salman was all set to be in the test team for West Indies atleast as far as I have read on the internet. This time he was punished for something he has no relation or control whatsoever.

However, I believe another good domestic season should see Butt back in the side, at the moment the biggest plus point for salman is that Inzamam has always spoken in favor of his return.
Salman should keep hope and simply focus on scoring runs.

I'll never forget how Butt kept YK and MoYo (until the oval test) from being selected.

Press conference after press conference he'd defend His players and blatantly say that YK and Moyo were not required and that they'd moved on from them...

I think people forget just how domineering he was during his one catastrophic spell as captain in England 2010.

If Inzy goes down this path then he could end up being the worst selector we've ever had.
Should he even be a selector after the Qauyuum Report? Or does turning to religion not only allow you to sleep better but also vindicate you for past misdemeanours?

 

[Syed1]

Even if you ignore the fixing past, Salman Butt is simply not good enough to be in the side as a batsman. His past record is hardly anything to write home about. His domestic performance wasn't stellar. Add to that he is about 35 years old.


No thank you.

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

Yeah rules should be same for all but we have better test openers in domestic.

It is odis where we have a big problem after Sharjeel and Salman isnt scoring quick enough in one days.

 

[Slog]

He was the 6th highest leading run scorer in the entire country out of a population of millions. His batting average was about 1 run less than 50 and he did the business in the final

But sure if those are not acceptable for people then fine but don't use that to sugar coat their real reason which is because he's a fixer blah blah who orchestrated the spot fixing ordeal because their logic does not hold up when they want to give Amir or an Asif a cuddle.

6th highest run scorer in our domestic is no achievement when the top 7-8 batsmen in the country are not even playing in the competitions

also when you have played more games than many others put together. And as i showed he was very inconsistent with an average in mid 30s if you take out just one match

you think if misbah, younis, asad shafiq, azhar ali and other internationals werent playing they wouldnt be in this list too

 

[Markhor]

Let's start off by discussing the merits of Butt as a cricketer. Butt was a rubbish player during his international career. We used to call him on PP "best of a sorry bunch" because compared to Khurrum Manzoor, Imran Farhat and Yasir Hameed he looked like Saeed Anwar.

Let me inform you of his Test averages. In England (24), India (25), NZ (30), on the phattas of Pakistan (a mighty 34), SL (14) and WI (13). He was a terrible runner between the wickets and worse fielder.

Now let's get onto the small matter of spot-fixing. He was the ringleader of a scandal that destroyed the careers of two of our star pacers. As captain he represented the country of Pakistan, at a time when thousands were drowning in floods in the summer of 2010, and dragged it into the mud on a tour that was ALREADY a farce thanks to a captain quitting halfway through and embarrassing performances.

He had the audacity to deny and deny his involvement on TV, playing the victim and ONLY admitted his guilt when there was no more legal avenues to exhaust. The difference is Amir at least he admitted his guilt fairly early on. Even Asif had the decency to shut his mouth.

The IQ on PakPassion seems to sink with every year. How many times must this be repeated - the trio are NOT ALL THE SAME. Asif and Butt received the LONGEST suspended sentence so clearly Justice Cooke felt he was the biggest culprit. They were only given 5 years because that was the maximum stipulated by the ICC Code.

If you guys want a loathsome individual like Salman Butt back, then please don't cry when Sharjeel Khan or Khalid Latif get caught up in fixing scandals. No wonder Pakistan is a failed state is bathed in corruption - you lot are the biggest enablers of it from top to bottom. You re-elect chors as Prime Ministers multiple times, you beg for fixers to return (hell some of you even wanted Butt back as CAPTAIN) and you want alleged fixers like Sharjeel to be let off scot-free.

As for his domestic performances - in the One Day Cup last year he averaged over 100 but at laughably selfish SRs that wouldn't look out of place in the 1980s. What a shameless attempt to deceive the nation, I'd ban him for that alone. Thankfully it appears Mickey Arthur doesn't want him back as he's got enough on his plate.

 

[cricketAXEpert]

Salman Butt should have gotten a life ban. He was the mastermind & the Captain. he did not forced but Encouraged, he pushed for it. He was family like friend of the crooked agent not Amir.

Just like Kaneria got a life ban for encouraging and enabling the young Mervin Westfield. Westfield got far less punishment, a few months. That is how it should have been done.
A few months for Amir & a life ban for Salman Butt.
It is called cutting 'the head of the snake'.

 

[RickyG]

I'm curious as to why the OP/MIG/Pete Rose etc think that Butt is entitled to a spot in the team? I didn't want Amir back in the team or not without proving himself first anyway but that is done. The real question is for you Butt supporters who compare his situation to Amir's:

Just because Amir was given a spot in the team, is Butt entitled to a spot in the team as well now?

And for the record, you have to be an idiot to think that two situations are comparable. Butt was the captain and the one who orchestrated this. Just like Azharuddin and Jadeja, Butt and Amir had different levels of complicity and therefore should be treated differently.

 

[shaz619]

The self proclaimed intellectuals can proclaim the mantle of a higher IQ on PP but still their mentality remains incredibly childish and moronic ! or else their thoughts and views would not reek of hypocrisy, they don't want Salman Butt back because of corruption blah blah blah Sharjeeel, Latif etc but have absolutely no issue whatsoever with Amir being in the team, so before you give big speeches about Pakistan as a failed state which is bathed in corruption you should question your own hypocrisy because you've become the very thing you hate!

Either you are completely in favour of the trio returning or you are completely against them playing international cricket! those in-between are the reason why the country is bathed in corruption because they pick and choose when it comes to their definition of justice and when it is most suitable and tasteful for their biases.

 

[TahirFan]

Salman Butt was the Captain

Life Ban from cricket is a very light sentence for his crime.

He should have got at least 30 years behind bars

 

[Markhor]

The self proclaimed intellectuals can proclaim the mantle of a higher IQ on PP but still their mentality remains incredibly childish and moronic ! or else their thoughts and views would not reek of hypocrisy, they don't want Salman Butt back because of corruption blah blah blah Sharjeeel, Latif etc but have absolutely no issue whatsoever with Amir being in the team, so before you give big speeches about Pakistan as a failed state which is bathed in corruption you should question your own hypocrisy because you've become the very thing you hate!

Either you are completely in favour of the trio returning or you are completely against them playing international cricket! those in-between are the reason why the country is bathed in corruption because they pick and choose when it comes to their definition of justice and when it is most suitable and tasteful for their biases.

Yaar Amir wasn't the captain with the responsibility of setting the right example. Butt unlike Amir continued to lie by publicly denying his involvement despite all evidence to the contrary. Butt was the ringleader and given the longest suspended sentence so its clear who the biggest culprit was.

But even putting the fixing scandal aside, he's a nothing cricketer and we have better opening options to use ahead of him.

 

[shaz619]

Yaar Amir wasn't the captain with the responsibility of setting the right example. Butt unlike Amir continued to lie by publicly denying his involvement despite all evidence to the contrary. Butt was the ringleader and given the longest suspended sentence so its clear who the biggest culprit was.

But even putting the fixing scandal aside, he's a nothing cricketer and we have better opening options to use ahead of him.

I've not said I want Salman Butt back anywhere but people go back to Sharjeel and Latif as if Butt was the direct consequence, their fixing came to fruition after the selection of Amir. Even if we make a case that on a level playing field that Butt was entirely at fault, when it comes to putting a big stamp on corruption in general and sending a message we got to ask ourselves was Amir's return to the side justified?

I've said in the OP he certainly deserves more criticism then the others because he was the honourable captain of Pakistan and regardless of how Butt or Amir went about their respective cases they still committed the same crime and were convicted for spot fixing and both were punished for that and once they had become eligible to play cricket again there was a lot of sympathy for Amir and many welcomed his return but with Butt and Asif there was a difference of opinion.

They were all punished and according to the ICC qualify to return to international cricket having served their punishment, the onus is on the PCB to pick them but to say we do not want Butt because he fixed and are fine with Amir who also fixed whilst also being big advocates of anti-fixing don't you think that's hypocritical on any level?

 

[MMHS]

I don't think he is treated differently, but ideally he should have been - he should have been banned for life, even from domestics. More or less, in major cricket counties, Cricket Team Captain is the highest honored sportsman, even higher than Olympian - this guy disgraced that status.

However, I am not sure how he is treated unfair? He has a decent to good record in AUS, so he might have an argument about selection of AUS tour - but, he didn't help his course himself. He played in PAK domestics from April 2016 (or earlier?), and didn't actually set fire on the wicket. He had a poor QA season at the start & by the time he got some runs, team was already there. Outside AUS, Shan Masood is comfortably better ...........

On top of that, I an not sure, how this guy is a better Test opener than MoHa or Sami, both of whom are dropped. His only pitch could have been WI ODI, particularly after Sharjeel missed out, but he was comfortably out done in domestics by the 2 openers picked for the tour - PAK won the series, therefore not much to complain. Butt was given far better treatment than Amir at the start - U16, U19, A team Captain; debuted in Test at 19, regular in 3 formats by 23 (in Test & ODI by 19), PAK Captain at 25 - now it's payback time for his shooting at own feet. I don't see any double standard in this.

 

[shaz619]

Lets get one thing clear, personally I do not want Salman Butt back in the team.

However, my main issue is with the folk who do not want him back in the team for non-cricketing reasons. But lets focus on a few points:

a) Amir also fixed but he has been welcomed back

b) Salman Butt was punished just like Amir and is technically allowed to return to the international level subject to form and fitness

c) Sharjeel and Latif fixed after Amir was selected and for that reason Salman Butt should not return (doesn't make sense does it)

We need to be careful where we are drawling the line, our views need to be consistent; especially since we must prevent Pakistan from being a failed state which is bathed in corruption.

 

[coy0607]

let's get this straight, Butt, Asif and Amir all makes mistakes and served their time.

If they earn a spot, they deserve to play

Amir is at probably the second best pacer in Pakistan. With him still being very young, no question he deserves to play

Asif is (barely) good enough to play, but with his age I don't think he's worth the investment

Butt, with his test average of 30, absolutely does not deserve a place. He just isn't good enough

 

[GLORY OF '92]

...which has nothing to do with Amir. Pakistanis were fixing long before Amir came and will do so long after he is gone. If being internationally humiliated, jailed, cursed at won't deter someone then life-long bans won't either.

Bit strange no fixing while Amir was away....

 

[GLORY OF '92]

Do you believe in Allah? and are a member of Islam?

The first verse in the holy Quran is translated as follows:

"In the name of Allah , the Entirely Merciful, the Especially Merciful."

So I can't agree with you on that one, sorry buddy; according to the laws of God in general he loves those who forgive and seek forgiveness; he also does forgive easily.

There is a limit. IMO they are beyond it.

 

[Pakpak]

Bit strange no fixing while Amir was away....

Not really, if rumors are correct then Jamshed and Sharjeel were fixing long before in domestic cricket and during Amir's ban. The latter may have been blackmailed too, a fact which would have nothing to do with Amir. Its just that all this nonsense is only now coming to light. As I said, players from our country have fixed before Amir was even born. And if a player still fixes knowing he will be jailed, cursed and humiliated then greed knows no end.

It punishments like executions cannot stop crimes of killings, rape and paedophilia then banning will hardly cure fixing. Criminals will still commit crimes regardless of deterrence.

All of which is common sense, but common sense which would hardly be seen by someone with a mist of misplaced rage.

 

[Pakpak]

All 3 are the same.

We committed suicide the moment we selected Amir.

Sharjeel and the massacre in Australia/NZ are the result.

God does not forgive the corrupt so easily.

God seems to be doing a good job ignoring the rapists who have pillaged and molested our nation for decades, I doubt he's worrying about petty things such as making money from no-balls in a stupid game.

 

[SaadAliG]

He was the 6th highest leading run scorer in the entire country out of a population of millions. His batting average was about 1 run less than 50 and he did the business in the final

But sure if those are not acceptable for people then fine but don't use that to sugar coat their real reason which is because he's a fixer blah blah who orchestrated the spot fixing ordeal because their logic does not hold up when they want to give Amir or an Asif a cuddle.

I would rather have even Fawad Alam as an opener over Butt. He batted with an average of 30 in tests in his prime. Pak test line-up has moved a long way and we have superior guys to him batting at 6 and 7(see Shafiq & Sarfraz) with 40+ batting averages.
He's a glorified Imran Farhat.

 

[SaadAliG]

The self proclaimed intellectuals can proclaim the mantle of a higher IQ on PP but still their mentality remains incredibly childish and moronic ! or else their thoughts and views would not reek of hypocrisy, they don't want Salman Butt back because of corruption blah blah blah Sharjeeel, Latif etc but have absolutely no issue whatsoever with Amir being in the team, so before you give big speeches about Pakistan as a failed state which is bathed in corruption you should question your own hypocrisy because you've become the very thing you hate!

Either you are completely in favour of the trio returning or you are completely against them playing international cricket! those in-between are the reason why the country is bathed in corruption because they pick and choose when it comes to their definition of justice and when it is most suitable and tasteful for their biases.

If anyone disagrees with you than he has an IQ of a child? Let's pack the bags and close the forum then.

 

[Pakpak]

The self proclaimed intellectuals can proclaim the mantle of a higher IQ on PP but still their mentality remains incredibly childish and moronic ! or else their thoughts and views would not reek of hypocrisy, they don't want Salman Butt back because of corruption blah blah blah Sharjeeel, Latif etc but have absolutely no issue whatsoever with Amir being in the team, so before you give big speeches about Pakistan as a failed state which is bathed in corruption you should question your own hypocrisy because you've become the very thing you hate!

Either you are completely in favour of the trio returning or you are completely against them playing international cricket! those in-between are the reason why the country is bathed in corruption because they pick and choose when it comes to their definition of justice and when it is most suitable and tasteful for their biases.

It doesn't really depend on whether we care or not. As per law all three are allowed back, one is picked the other two are not. Nothing illegal is happening, so I am unsure as to what your rant is about. Corruption is when laws are broken and circumvented. No law is being broken if one is selected and the other two are not. If Butt and Asif are performing then sure, bring them back, unless a law forbids it.

 

[Pakpak]

The self proclaimed intellectuals can proclaim the mantle of a higher IQ on PP but still their mentality remains incredibly childish and moronic ! or else their thoughts and views would not reek of hypocrisy, they don't want Salman Butt back because of corruption blah blah blah Sharjeeel, Latif etc but have absolutely no issue whatsoever with Amir being in the team, so before you give big speeches about Pakistan as a failed state which is bathed in corruption you should question your own hypocrisy because you've become the very thing you hate!

Either you are completely in favour of the trio returning or you are completely against them playing international cricket! those in-between are the reason why the country is bathed in corruption because they pick and choose when it comes to their definition of justice and when it is most suitable and tasteful for their biases.

Apologies, may have been harsh on you. I think I know what you're saying in your OP.

 

[zyrus]

No I am not against him. He used to be the best opener and was an excellent captain we had for 1-2 games.
Problem is that he is not performing that good anymore, he is as slow as A. Shezad. I remember he used to bully the oppositions with 4 after another. Now he is only saving face these days. We can't bring him in on his performances. There are better options out there that we need to try. Inam ul haq is one.

 

[Convict]

You don't think a Captain has extra responsibilities?

 

[shane]

Salman Butt is different because he was captain. He was not an 18-year old dazzled by the lights. He is also different because, even upon getting caught, he continued to deny wrong-doing and bled the system for all he could. He deserves nothing but contempt, because that is how he treated Pakistan.

 

[GLORY OF '92]

Not really, if rumors are correct then Jamshed and Sharjeel were fixing long before in domestic cricket and during Amir's ban. The latter may have been blackmailed too, a fact which would have nothing to do with Amir. Its just that all this nonsense is only now coming to light. As I said, players from our country have fixed before Amir was even born. And if a player still fixes knowing he will be jailed, cursed and humiliated then greed knows no end.

It punishments like executions cannot stop crimes of killings, rape and paedophilia then banning will hardly cure fixing. Criminals will still commit crimes regardless of deterrence.

All of which is common sense, but common sense which would hardly be seen by someone with a mist of misplaced rage.

Hmm common sense would say keep traitors and degenerates away from the team.

 

[msb314]

Let's start off by discussing the merits of Butt as a cricketer. Butt was a rubbish player during his international career. We used to call him on PP "best of a sorry bunch" because compared to Khurrum Manzoor, Imran Farhat and Yasir Hameed he looked like Saeed Anwar.

Let me inform you of his Test averages. In England (24), India (25), NZ (30), on the phattas of Pakistan (a mighty 34), SL (14) and WI (13). He was a terrible runner between the wickets and worse fielder.

Now let's get onto the small matter of spot-fixing. He was the ringleader of a scandal that destroyed the careers of two of our star pacers. As captain he represented the country of Pakistan, at a time when thousands were drowning in floods in the summer of 2010, and dragged it into the mud on a tour that was ALREADY a farce thanks to a captain quitting halfway through and embarrassing performances.

He had the audacity to deny and deny his involvement on TV, playing the victim and ONLY admitted his guilt when there was no more legal avenues to exhaust. The difference is Amir at least he admitted his guilt fairly early on. Even Asif had the decency to shut his mouth.

The IQ on PakPassion seems to sink with every year. How many times must this be repeated - the trio are NOT ALL THE SAME. Asif and Butt received the LONGEST suspended sentence so clearly Justice Cooke felt he was the biggest culprit. They were only given 5 years because that was the maximum stipulated by the ICC Code.

If you guys want a loathsome individual like Salman Butt back, then please don't cry when Sharjeel Khan or Khalid Latif get caught up in fixing scandals. No wonder Pakistan is a failed state is bathed in corruption - you lot are the biggest enablers of it from top to bottom. You re-elect chors as Prime Ministers multiple times, you beg for fixers to return (hell some of you even wanted Butt back as CAPTAIN) and you want alleged fixers like Sharjeel to be let off scot-free.

As for his domestic performances - in the One Day Cup last year he averaged over 100 but at laughably selfish SRs that wouldn't look out of place in the 1980s. What a shameless attempt to deceive the nation, I'd ban him for that alone. Thankfully it appears Mickey Arthur doesn't want him back as he's got enough on his plate.

Why?

The difference is Salman Butt served his punishment for many years and deserves a chance to return and prove himself on merit.

Even the US/UK judicial system lets murderers released on parole early for good behaviour - everyone deserves a second chance for most crimes.

Sharjeel is a fixer and should be rightfully be punished in a severe way - hopefully he will learn his lesson after his punishment.

 

[Square Drive]

[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] is right - Butt got all this amazing treatment directed towards him by the time he was 25.

He's had enough now.

 

[samiakh]

The buck stops with the captain. A leader must be held to a different level of accountability. In my opinion he should have been banned for life by the PCB. But it's Pakistan corrupt leaders are a part of the fabric of society!

 

[Pakpak]

Hmm common sense would say keep traitors and degenerates away from the team.

Not really, common sense would say follow the law. As this saga proves, noone is going to be allowed to come back. Amir is because he was reasonably talented and he still has 10 years left in him, if he was the same age as Butt and Asif he'd never be allowed back. Asif, ten times talented, is not coming back. If we believe your story, then Shajreel and Latif (inspired by ex fixers) fixed at the ages of 28 and 32 for money so they'd happily come back at 34 and 37? When much talented players than them are not being allowed back, they would? I must say, what a masterplan.

 

[IMMY69]

Why?

The difference is Salman Butt served his punishment for many years and deserves a chance to return and prove himself on merit.

Even the US/UK judicial system lets murderers released on parole early for good behaviour - everyone deserves a second chance for most crimes.

Sharjeel is a fixer and should be rightfully be punished in a severe way - hopefully he will learn his lesson after his punishment.

Yes but say that murderer was a banker, is any bank obliged to employ him?

I don't get this argument. So what if he's done his time. Doing his time means that he now has freedom and rights enjoyed by other citizens. Not a god given right to come back to your old profession.

 

[New Yorker]

Why?

The difference is Salman Butt served his punishment for many years and deserves a chance to return and prove himself on merit.

Even the US/UK judicial system lets murderers released on parole early for good behaviour - everyone deserves a second chance for most crimes.

Sharjeel is a fixer and should be rightfully be punished in a severe way - hopefully he will learn his lesson after his punishment.

Extraordinary how much outrage is summoned on behalf of this guy. You would think he was a Syrian
refugee or some such.

Perfectly normal that someone who instigated and coordinate a hoax, as Butt did, thereby also abusing
a position of authority and influence, should be considered more culpable. This does not absolve Amir or
Asif.

I think a ban on his return to the national side was considered by many to be part and parcel of his punishment.

It should certainly be a prerogative of the PCB not to select him. Just as they have the right not to select
the vast majority of domestic cricketers every year, including many who perform better than Butt.

Glad that has been settled.

 

[Witcher]

Please don't comment on the forgiveness flexibility of God. That's out of your domain. And I don't want to open a religious discussion.

 

[JibranAnsari]

I don't want in the team because of his mediocrity and i Dont want asif in the team because he is already 35. Better to give chances to the new ones instead of bringing back the deadwood. Amir has been a failure since his return in test cricket and this should be his last series before he loses his place in the test team.

 

[waleed88]

Did Salman Butt point a gun at Asif and Amir to fix?

Either you are for or against the trio returning to the Pakistani team, how can anyone be in-between?

Am reading comments such as "We Pakistan fans will never forgive Salman" ) ) you got to be kidding me, the same fans write poetry about Amir and sacrifice cows in the hope that Asif returns.

Salman Butt deserves maybe deserves a little more criticism because he was the captain but to suggest he single handedly was responsible for damaging Pakistan cricket is absolutely moronic, it was a TEAM EFFORT; e.g Amir and Asif both played their part.

Asif did not have to bowl those no balls nor did Amir, both are VICTIMS OF THEIR OWN DEEDS.

Salman Butt tends to get 70% of the blame for the entire spot fixing fiasco, Asif 25% and hero/true-son-of-Pakistan Amir about 5%. I don't agree with these percentages and they are totally unfair.

Now I bought this up since non-cricketing reasons are repeatedly being offered for folk not wanting him to return to the Pakistan team and they just don't hold up unless you believe Amir, Asif and Butt should not play international cricket.

The Fake Sheikh was well into the Pakistan team circle before the spot-fixing fiasco... question beckons how did he end up getting so close to the Pakistan team circle... his whereabouts have been known for a long time around the dressing room...

Also his evidence has been proven to be falsified in court.. and all his cases were scrutnized once again... he's been faking evidence for a long time and is currently serving jail...

https://www.dawn.com/news/1209825/newspaper/newspaper/column

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...-mazher-mahmood-jailed-for-tulisa-drugs-tria/

it creates an entrapment defense for all 3 of them.. all of them were hence let off in 5 years, instead of serving the full ban...

all 3 players served equal jail time, and an equal ban period.. hence deserved to be given the same treatment as others...

a half baked substandard Mohammad Amir, was proved to be useless in the end.. as he didn't take one 5'fer in all of the formats he has played...

 

[waleed88]

The funny thing is, the actual people who bowled the no-balls are ones who are let off lightly..

Did Salman Butt make them bowl a no-ball...

It was Amir, and Asif's leg. That made it happened, that overstepped the line that was crossed..

Salman Butt wasn't even directly involved in this, yea he made up a deal, but if two bowlers didn't bowl those deliveries... how the hell would be sitting here rueing 5 years alot careers lost??

Can't just ignore the action of those who made this happen.... the ones who did and did it on their own accord... their brain made them overstep... not Salman Butt

Its not like Sharjeel where he played two dot balls to earn money

 

[shaz619]

The funny thing is, the actual people who bowled the no-balls are ones who are let off lightly..

Did Salman Butt make them bowl a no-ball...

It was Amir, and Asif's leg. That made it happened, that overstepped the line that was crossed..

Salman Butt wasn't even directly involved in this, yea he made up a deal, but if two bowlers didn't bowl those deliveries... how the hell would be sitting here rueing 5 years alot careers lost??

Can't just ignore the action of those who made this happen.... the ones who did and did it on their own accord... their brain made them overstep... not Salman Butt

Its not like Sharjeel where he played two dot balls to earn money

Yet the treatment of each individual by the public is incredibly distinct, as a captain I understand that Butt had immense responsibility and deserves more criticism in that regard but I don't agree with the rhetoric that he single handedly destroyed Pakistan cricket and many would have you believed that it was entirely his fault. Unfortunately life is not that simple to the point where we can blame the consequence of an event on a singular entity. People tend to point out how Butt was given a bigger sentence, if the others were so innocent why were they punished at all? because it all must have been Salman's fault right.

 

[waleed88]

Yet the treatment of each individual by the public is incredibly distinct, as a captain I understand that Butt had immense responsibility and deserves more criticism in that regard but I don't agree with the rhetoric that he single handedly destroyed Pakistan cricket and many would have you believed that it was entirely his fault. Unfortunately life is not that simple to the point where we can blame the consequence of an event on a singular entity. People tend to point out how Butt was given a bigger sentence, if the others were so innocent why were they punished at all? because it all must have been Salman's fault right.

I'm saying who overstepped the line? Was it Salman Butt? He wasn't the one who bowled those deliveries..

Asif and Amir did it? Why didn't they inform the apprpriate authorities what the captain was asking them to do...???

See human psychology works in a complex way, you subsconciously want to divert your hatred towards the one you think deserves the most... the most mediocre cricketer of them all..

Asif and Amir both had special superpowers at that time... the guys winning you matches and providing you with such immense hope for the future can't be the ones who give you so much pain as a supporter too... it must be that evil canniving villain, who made them bowl those deliveries.. whispered it in their ears...

The mediocre cricketer who doesn't want to see Pakistan flourish

 

[New Yorker]

I'm saying who overstepped the line? Was it Salman Butt? He wasn't the one who bowled those deliveries..

Asif and Amir did it? Why didn't they inform the apprpriate authorities what the captain was asking them to do...???

See human psychology works in a complex way, you subsconciously want to divert your hatred towards the one you think deserves the most... the most mediocre cricketer of them all..

Asif and Amir both had special superpowers at that time... the guys winning you matches and providing you with such immense hope for the future can't be the ones who give you so much pain as a supporter too... it must be that evil canniving villain, who made them bowl those deliveries.. whispered it in their ears...

The mediocre cricketer who doesn't want to see Pakistan flourish

We can argue about whether Butt's crime was truly worse than Amir's and
Asif, but let's at least acknowledge what we are arguing about. Most people
are not saying that Amir and Asif are NOT guilty. They feel Butt was more
guilty. And if he is more guilty, to whatever degree, the punishment could
also be more severe. Why is this so difficult to understand?

The second argument to acknowledge is completely independent of the former.
Regardless of what was Butt's guilt, The PCB has the right to NOT select someone
for the national team. It's their prerogative entirely. Having served his sentence,
Butt does not have the right to a place in the team. He has the right to not be
in jail. So let's stop throwing the term 'deserve' around here as if it means something.

 

[Amir]

This is why our team will never progress. Fans support loser players, who then in turn pressure the media and then pressure the board. Go back to the same old TTFs like Kamran and now people clamouring up for Butt.

People are so thick they can't see the difference between Butt and Asif and Amir. If you didn't know HE WAS THE CAPTAIN. The leader. He was the lead organizer of the fix. He was friends with Mazhar. He brought Mazhar to them. Without him, there is no Mazhar and someone like Amir would not even know how to fix. The mafia boss always gets the worse punishment unless he acts as a informant. Which Butt also refused to do before it was all too late!!! He had no remorse.

Now people will compare him to Amir. Of course, Amir was a special talent (butt is no special talent, in fact he kind of sucks...so why take all that risk and effort in someone crappy). He was younger. Has more upside and he confessed early. He had remorse. Did his time. And came back. Butt had no remorse until it was all too late. We know it was fake. Asif, is too old now and has had various infractions. Too much of a risk given he never learns his lesson.

How people think Butt is equal to Amir and Asif is baffling. Butt was well off. He didn't need the money. And he should have tohught about that. He should just be lucky he is allowed to earn a living by being an analyst or in domestic.

BUT OK, for argument sake, lets say they are all equal. How the hell do you field a team with three guys who all fixed and probably hold bad blood to one another (Butt definitely towards Amir because Amir assisted in the case). Now tell me, you pick one of three. Who do you go with? The mediocre 34-year old opener? The consistent violator? Or the plucky 24 year old kid who could become a decent bowler for the team? Gee, wonder which one I would pick....

 

[Amir]

I'm saying who overstepped the line? Was it Salman Butt? He wasn't the one who bowled those deliveries..

He organized the fix. He brought Mazhar to them. No Mazhar. No Fix.

lol, this is like a mob boss saying I didn't pull the trigger, my henchmen did. I just provided the guns, ammo and instructions on who to kill. But I DID NOT pull the trigger.

What a terrible argument. They should take away your posting rights for such an argument.

 

[Amir]

Did Salman Butt point a gun at Asif and Amir to fix? 0

Metaphorically very possible....cause you know...HE WAS THE CAPTAIN. How is a new player that is 18 year old going to say no to the captain....knowing the repercussion is he loses his spot in the team and has to go back to the village he came from.

 

[Big Mac]

They did the time, they're free to return as far as I'm concerned.

What I'm confused about though, is the fuss over a batsman with a test average of 30? GOAT opener indeed.

 

[Hasan123]

If he's scoring runs he could get selected and I wouldn't have a problem because he has served his time. But he has to be scoring in domestic cricket. In a ideal world he wouldn't play for Pakistan though.

Hopefully Shehzad, Sami, and Imam score runs and are persisted with so we don't ever have to consider Butt.

 

[shaz619]

Metaphorically very possible....cause you know...HE WAS THE CAPTAIN. How is a new player that is 18 year old going to say no to the captain....knowing the repercussion is he loses his spot in the team and has to go back to the village he came from.

People are still so moronic that they can't tell the difference between a cricketer who fixed and one who did not fix, it seems according to this poster with an alleged Einstein IQ that Amir did not fix and Butt was entirely responsible for the action of Amir and Asif. This guys views are a perfect example of why there is so much corruption in Pakistan...

 

[shaz619]

I'm saying who overstepped the line? Was it Salman Butt? He wasn't the one who bowled those deliveries..

Asif and Amir did it? Why didn't they inform the apprpriate authorities what the captain was asking them to do...???

See human psychology works in a complex way, you subsconciously want to divert your hatred towards the one you think deserves the most... the most mediocre cricketer of them all..

Asif and Amir both had special superpowers at that time... the guys winning you matches and providing you with such immense hope for the future can't be the ones who give you so much pain as a supporter too... it must be that evil canniving villain, who made them bowl those deliveries.. whispered it in their ears...

The mediocre cricketer who doesn't want to see Pakistan flourish

Possibly why people given certain cricketers the golden boy treatment rather then display consistency in their views

 

[waleed88]

Metaphorically very possible....cause you know...HE WAS THE CAPTAIN. How is a new player that is 18 year old going to say no to the captain....knowing the repercussion is he loses his spot in the team and has to go back to the village he came from.

Not a new player, an established superstar who was a part of 2 world cup t20 for Pakistan.. won one World Cup for the country... had already established his bones as a bowler in Newzealand, Australia picking up a 5'fer in the latter... also played in Asia cup ODIs for Pakistan.. He had been a part of the Pakistan team for 2 years already prior to his ban.

If I'm not wrong got Tendulkar out in 2009 CT Trophy, was a part of the side that reached the semi finals of that tournament..

Then went on to further cement his status as one of the best with his performances in England... Amir was THE superstar of that side... not a little kid who had just seen a foreign country for the first time in his life... he had been there, done that and was going places...

His suspicious activities on the phone during an ODI vs NZ were dubious enough as a cricketer.. but no action was taken against him..

His rogueness was eventually exposed in the spot-fixing scandal, for which he rightly served jail time and a ban, like the others..

 

[waleed88]

Correction - 1.5 years**

 

[PakLFC]

He seems to be seen as the ring leader of the match fixing episode. From the impression I get most people hold him responsible for orchestrating the whole thing or encouraging Amir and Asif to get involved. By and large even if he did after serving his punishment society should forgive him now. If Amir can be forgiven then so should he more so we need some quality opener. The likes of Sharjeel and Shan Masood are not exactly hitting amazing heights of success, are they?? If Asif is back playing well then he should be considered as well, you can't have different rules for different players. Asif seems to have the least chance of ever making a comeback.

 

[The_Odd_One]

As a captain, he had more responsibility. You just don't enjoy the perks, you get more responsibility too.

 

[Veteran]

Yes but say that murderer was a banker, is any bank obliged to employ him?

I don't get this argument. So what if he's done his time. Doing his time means that he now has freedom and rights enjoyed by other citizens. Not a god given right to come back to your old profession.

You seem too logical and sensible to be on this forum.

 

[MeanAndGreen]

Forget the ethical side of Butt's omission, he's a garbage cricketer who has rightly been sidelined. Averaged 30 in his "peak".