The Wrestling Discussion Thread

[BunnyRabbit]

Cole reminds me of Monty Panesar who was extraordinary when the captain set fields for him and told him what to bowl and when.

Similarly Cole was exceptional when he had someone like Shawn mentoring him. Cole may have been a little overly rated at times but looking back he was a fantastic all round performer with the UE, his work was more dynamic then the likes of Seth Rollins, my biggest issue with him is, there is next to zero effort on his part to improve his physique and it was going to decline further when he reunited with his buddies.

Even taking spot oriented wrestling into consideration, has Seth had a better match than Cole vs Gargano at Takeover?

WWE since late early 2000s have been pretty strict on keep pushing all the wrestlers to keep challenging themselves. That culture is probably missing in AEW cause they don't really have goals set for their wrestlers.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

His physique has really gotten quite bad. So much so that I feel like even I have a better physique than him. And I just to the the gym 3 times a week and obviously am not a pro-wrestler. People with Cole's body type do tend to lose muscle if they don't workout. I don't know what's up with him. I can't believe that he is not going to the gym. Hopefully it's not an illness.

Cole is a fundamentally sound wrestler. That's why I enjoy watching him so much. Seth for me still has some very indierific flashes in his work that he hasn't taken out yet, that bother me. Things like the buckle bomb or the suplex into the falcon arrow. Overall though, I would say that Seth is a significantly better wrestler. Though I can't recall him having a match as good as that Gargano-Cole Takeover match.

Seth is a guy WWE can rely on for being consistent in what he does. His standard matches are good enough to entertain the house shows and you know what you're getting with him. Think that's one reason WWE have Seth in such high esteem. Edge also calls Seth to be one of the most gifted wrestlers.

Adam Cole-Ricochet feud was awesome.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Jericho for all his flaws is atleast a professional who gets the business because he has worked in major league wrestling promotions. His career hasn't been defined by playing to a small group of his diehard fans inside high school gyms and rec centers.

I think they are still pretty good friends. I remember Owens was leaning into his friendship with Bucks when his contract was coming up...teasing a potential reunion with them. Remember Owens taking a veiled shot at Punk on Twitter too after the Brawl Out that @BunyRabbit mentioned. Something related to main-eventing Mania.

Jericho in general really make me laugh. He's like the smarter version of Hogan from late 90s WCW. Hogan's politicking was very obvious. He didn't even try to hide it. Jericho on the other hand, seems to want to gain favor from the marks on the internet. His entire strategy since the end of his title run has been to get into overlong feuds with whoever is hot in the company and then get a win over them. But ever since people started calling him out for su*king the blood of younger talent like a vampire, he has started putting over more guys. He lost both matches to Starks in his feud with him. He lost to Action Andretti and now he's lost to Roddy too. Can't not give him credit for putting guys over but somehow it feels like he has an ulterior motive.

Jericho seemed like the sanest guy in wrestling world till the start of pandemic. After that, he's become too unhinged and too hungry for power. Maybe it's the long term effects of drinking, or something else. There's a slight chance he might be doing a character to be a loathsome person in real life. I haven't seen someone change that dramatically in such a short time.

Have you noticed Keith Lee? The guy looks like a 60 year old now and moves in slow motion. Seems like a minature of Viscera wrestling now.

Cesaro for some reason is still without any personality. It's surprising for a guy so talented and effortless in the ring yet has no personality of his own.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I didn't even see the reality series, but I found her unbearable over a year ago when she couldn't properly put over Rosa and kept bringing sandbag references in promos like it was some pipebomb stuff.

Jericho, Christian, Punk, Bryan, Joe etc all these guys are old colleagues. Punk even got Jericho bailed out after arrest back in 2010 or 11. The stuff was probably greatly exaggerated by the dirtsheets who probably haven't been in a confrontation and know about heat of the moment.

AEW's women roster has become extremely annoying like Ruby Soho, Paige, Britt, Athena etc They were hyped up as game changers but they've actually gone insane since coming over there. Sasha is another one I feel is perfectly suited to AEW's diehards. Ego, arrogance and unrelenting delusion of being the greatest ever.

All she does in the reality series (which was filmed a while ago) is b*tch and moan about how Thunder Rosa is faking an injury and that Tony should take the belt off her. I was actually surprised at how much of a clique the AEW women's locker-room is. With Britt politicking and turning other girls like Jamie Hayter and Toni Storm against Rosa. All the women came off terribly in this series, with the exception of Tay Conti. Who just wanted to opportunities and wasn't sitting around complaining like most of the others.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

If am honest with you reading their drivel in the months which followed Punk’s exit and how they were brutally exposed later on, I completely turned them off and given that MJF has run out of really high level big name guys to work with, I’ve not watched AEW in months since the IronMan match.

The simple answer would be that they are selling a brand and that brand involves pandering to a certain crowd of narrow minded hipster smarks, if you’re selling I rather you sell the truth for the most part, there’s a market for that, look at JC, although Meltzer seems to have more reach with the present audience? I don’t know.

But am sure I will be hearing more from these dumb phucks once Punk returns and I tune in more regular

The problem is that they have a major voice and people believe what they have to say. Even if its an opinion presented as a fact. Or the hearsay of a couple of disgruntled people presented as the opinions of the entire locker-room.

It would be great though if Punk returns and Ace Steel is his manager. Now that would get you some nuclear heat with the marks. They could even do a bit where Joe is about to beat Punk in Punk's first match back and then Steel screws Joe, Punk wins and turns heel.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

All she does in the reality series (which was filmed a while ago) is b*tch and moan about how Thunder Rosa is faking an injury and that Tony should take the belt off her. I was actually surprised at how much of a clique the AEW women's locker-room is. With Britt politicking and turning other girls like Jamie Hayter and Toni Storm against Rosa. All the women came off terribly in this series, with the exception of Tay Conti. Who just wanted to opportunities and wasn't sitting around complaining like most of the others.

That happens when there is no locker room decorum.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

It wouldn’t shock me bro, I don’t think Cole lifts weights anymore. He is not on road either, there is no excuse man. Look at the kind of shape AJ Styles is in, the guy is in his twilight man and he grew up on that circuit to, he is just cut from a different cloth, I tear up man thinking how the end is near, not long before the likes of Styles will be around for much longer, it is staggering to me that this was his longest lay off in his entire career, people look at Styles and think of his dynamism as a high flyer in his peak but he knew how to take bumps even wrestling such a demanding style before adapting later on, arguably the best of his era. We’re lucky to have Punk and he wont be here that much longer either, his body is brittle but guys go on like he is made out of glass and criticise him for botching the buck shot, ignoring one of the best baby face runs in a single calendar year this century, Joe is still here and I expect Bryan to be around for a while but am not so sure about Styles, Punk and Joe, if saddens me massively and even moreso when these guys get even a little criticism.

Cole yes he’s sound and great awareness in the ring, he doesn’t have all the fancy spots nor the athletic ability, but you want to watch him. In AEW he has regressed considerably and booking hasn’t helped. If I were to pick a challenger to that match it would be Seth vs Cena, but that was like a million years ago. The only guys who I’d consider watching twice in WWE are as follows:

- Reigns
- Flair
- Gunther
- Styles
- Cody
- Rey
- Edge
- Zayn/Drew (But not as much now given the booking)
- Lashley
- Lesnar

Seth for me unfortunately isn’t in this mix right now

When you think about their age, their work is absolutely incredible. We really need to cherish these guys and Orton and Edge. Because they have very limited number of days left on their career.

For me, it would have to be Cody, Gunther and Zayn as the top 3 in WWE right now. Followed by Rollins and AJ.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Jericho seemed like the sanest guy in wrestling world till the start of pandemic. After that, he's become too unhinged and too hungry for power. Maybe it's the long term effects of drinking, or something else. There's a slight chance he might be doing a character to be a loathsome person in real life. I haven't seen someone change that dramatically in such a short time.

Have you noticed Keith Lee? The guy looks like a 60 year old now and moves in slow motion. Seems like a minature of Viscera wrestling now.

Cesaro for some reason is still without any personality. It's surprising for a guy so talented and effortless in the ring yet has no personality of his own.

If he's channeling a Z list rockstar that is literally a one-hit wonder then he's definitely succeeding. At this point though he's purely getting by on name value. Because his in-ring work has suck*d for very long time and the storylines he has been involved in for the past year have been largely terrible. He definitely brings value to the AEW brand. But I question if the stuff he is involved in will ever get any good.

Keith Lee is an afterthought. I don't know why he decided to not dye his hair anymore. Because yeah, he does look like a 60 year old. Just taking up useless space on the roster.

 

[shaz619]

Guys some huge news, AEW fight forever has an official release date! it’s next month!!!

I am hyped.

Although to get the rating they wanted, many violent elements may have been toned down sadly. However, if the core gameplay is fun, I’m not bothered.

I really hope it’s critically acclaimed to give 2k a big kick up the behind, their games have been horrid

 

[shaz619]

When you think about their age, their work is absolutely incredible. We really need to cherish these guys and Orton and Edge. Because they have very limited number of days left on their career.

For me, it would have to be Cody, Gunther and Zayn as the top 3 in WWE right now. Followed by Rollins and AJ.

That is massively overlooked, even Lashley is taken for granted, he has done the best work of his career arguably post Lana/Rusev.

 

[shaz619]

Not sure if true, but some articles suggest that AEW may file a lawsuit against CM Punk unless he doesn't provide consent for some things [MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION]

They originally agreed for Ace to return and go on the road, but something predictably happened since that rumour and now....I wonder what....

 

[Markhor]

Superstar Billy Graham has passed away.

Sadly it came as little surprise as the Superstar had long suffered from a variety of ailments. I mean I read reports ten years ago saying he only had a few months to live !

Much of it stemmed from steroid abuse and Billy Graham was arguably the first high-profile wrestler to openly talk about the subject.

There's no doubting he influenced countless guys from Hulk Hogan to Jesse Ventura. He oozed charisma and few could match his verbal skills. Vince McMahon Sr dropped the ball big time by putting the title on dull Bob Backlund when he had a ready made babyface in Billy Graham who could've been Hulk Hogan before Hulk Hogan.

Today I watched his Kayfabe Commentaries shoot interview covering his title reign in 1977-78 (which I highly recommend) and he was still understandably bitter about it.

Unfortunately his relationship with WWF soured as his career wound down due to his health issues. He later became known for outlandish statements and outright lies. When the sexual abuse scandal broke in the early 1990s, Graham claimed to have witnessed sexual abuse of ring boys and talent before backtracking, notably clashing with Vince McMahon on a WILD edition of the Phil Donahue Show.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/3l3hv7Kcm3o" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Somehow after this they patched things up and he was inducted in the HOF. RIP.

 

[shaz619]

Sadly it came as little surprise as the Superstar had long suffered from a variety of ailments. I mean I read reports ten years ago saying he only had a few months to live !

Much of it stemmed from steroid abuse and Billy Graham was arguably the first high-profile wrestler to openly talk about the subject.

There's no doubting he influenced countless guys from Hulk Hogan to Jesse Ventura. He oozed charisma and few could match his verbal skills. Vince McMahon Sr dropped the ball big time by putting the title on dull Bob Backlund when he had a ready made babyface in Billy Graham who could've been Hulk Hogan before Hulk Hogan.

Today I watched his Kayfabe Commentaries shoot interview covering his title reign in 1977-78 (which I highly recommend) and he was still understandably bitter about it.

Unfortunately his relationship with WWF soured as his career wound down due to his health issues. He later became known for outlandish statements and outright lies. When the sexual abuse scandal broke in the early 1990s, Graham claimed to have witnessed sexual abuse of ring boys and talent before backtracking, notably clashing with Vince McMahon on a WILD edition of the Phil Donahue Show.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/3l3hv7Kcm3o" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Somehow after this they patched things up and he was inducted in the HOF. RIP.

Yes that’s true sadly, I had him on my fb and he was requesting donations from fans, I don’t think he got the best support from WWE either and that’s hardly surprising due to the sour relationship you described. He was in awful pain for a long time, no way to go for a pioneer of the golden era of wrestling. On the flip side if he did have that big Hogan run, his ring work would have had to been stripped back, Superstar worked so well as a heel and was exceptional at selling and bumping, unfortunately given his physique and size, those bumps probably took an even bigger toll then you’d expect.

 

[Firebat]

What are people's memories of the Undertaker-Orton feud of 2005? I wasn't following at that time, but it produced so many iconic segments and clips, some of which are below.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/fH2YYlWvXEA" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Surely one of the best of the ruthless aggression era?

 

[The_KING]

What are people's memories of the Undertaker-Orton feud of 2005? I wasn't following at that time, but it produced so many iconic segments and clips, some of which are below.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/fH2YYlWvXEA" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Surely one of the best of the ruthless aggression era?

I love The Undertaker - Orton rivalry. I am not a fan of Orton, but I must admit that he was great during the whole feud.

My favourite memory from the feud is when Undertaker makes his return at SS 05, few weeks after getting burned alive in a casket by Orton at No Mercy. Orton's facial expression were great when Undertaker's music started to play.

 

[shaz619]

What are people's memories of the Undertaker-Orton feud of 2005? I wasn't following at that time, but it produced so many iconic segments and clips, some of which are below.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/fH2YYlWvXEA" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Surely one of the best of the ruthless aggression era?

It’s a hidden gem for sure, Orton’s legend killer gimmick was iconic and in my view, this feud help launch the modern phenom, where he’d move out of gear 2 and into 5 when it came to his ring work. WM 21 is one hell of a PPV from top to bottom and Taker / Orton was such a fun match, imo WM 21 is one of the greatest mania’s of all time

 

[shaz619]

2004 should have been Orton’s coming home as a rasler party, part of the top faction and given the chance to be the guy, but he just wasn’t ready and it was too early. To come from that high/low and go into 05 to work with Taker was a big opportunity and test, Taker did more for him in that one feud then Evolution and the WHC, it helped him transition into a major singles star for the company as the tide started to change

 

[Markhor]

Yes that’s true sadly, I had him on my fb and he was requesting donations from fans, I don’t think he got the best support from WWE either and that’s hardly surprising due to the sour relationship you described. He was in awful pain for a long time, no way to go for a pioneer of the golden era of wrestling. On the flip side if he did have that big Hogan run, his ring work would have had to been stripped back, Superstar worked so well as a heel and was exceptional at selling and bumping, unfortunately given his physique and size, those bumps probably took an even bigger toll then you’d expect.

They used those hard boxing rings back then too. Taking bumps on them would take its toll.

 

[The_KING]

2004 should have been Orton’s coming home as a rasler party, part of the top faction and given the chance to be the guy, but he just wasn’t ready and it was too early. To come from that high/low and go into 05 to work with Taker was a big opportunity and test, Taker did more for him in that one feud then Evolution and the WHC, it helped him transition into a major singles star for the company as the tide started to change

Orton was never going to cut it as a face. He is naturally a douche, so turning him face in 2004 was always going to backfire. His career got back on track, when he turned heel in early 2005.

 

[shaz619]

Orton was never going to cut it as a face. He is naturally a douche, so turning him face in 2004 was always going to backfire. His career got back on track, when he turned heel in early 2005.

There’s potential it may have worked or at least the run could have been salvaged somewhat, but he wasn’t ready for the responsibility that came from being champion and filling Benoit’s boots, beating him and turning from a booking POV obviously wasn’t the clever thing to do either. Have you seen the ruthless aggression series on the Network? so good, one of the episodes goes into detail on Orton’s struggles as champion

 

[BunnyRabbit]

2004 should have been Orton’s coming home as a rasler party, part of the top faction and given the chance to be the guy, but he just wasn’t ready and it was too early. To come from that high/low and go into 05 to work with Taker was a big opportunity and test, Taker did more for him in that one feud then Evolution and the WHC, it helped him transition into a major singles star for the company as the tide started to change

Orton's gimmick before Evolution was never going to cut it. Evolution did help in getting him around the top guys and having matches with them. Batista just blossomed quicker than Randy did even though they invested more into Randy then.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

What are people's memories of the Undertaker-Orton feud of 2005? I wasn't following at that time, but it produced so many iconic segments and clips, some of which are below.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/fH2YYlWvXEA" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Surely one of the best of the ruthless aggression era?

I wasn't invested as much in that feud as i had for Taker-Kane the year before. But the match itself was brilliant. Looking back, it was great character work by Randy. Taker was obviously awesome.

 

[shaz619]

Orton's gimmick before Evolution was never going to cut it. Evolution did help in getting him around the top guys and having matches with them. Batista just blossomed quicker than Randy did even though they invested more into Randy then.

Not that gimmick, but following the experience he gained from the Evolution run and his defined persona, with a good attitude and shrewd booking they’d certainly have got more out of him. He wasn’t that guy when he first came in from OVE, they would never put the belt on that character and especially given how green he was despite the obvious natural ability. If there’s a certain direction you want to go in with someone, you need to make logical decisions, you can’t turn someone face after beating a beloved baby face. It sounds more like, hey I put over x, and this is my guy, put the belt on him, no real planning. On top of that Orton was too young, entitled and overall a bit stupid to carry the top brand. In contrast, Batista was waiting for that moment his whole life, he didn’t have an entitled attitude, he was a bit of a late bloomer and came from a deprived background, he was going to give the chance his all and boy did he

 

[shaz619]

Evolution didn’t do enough for Randy’s singles prospects at the top of the card, they got him noticed in the mid card, more than Evolution I give credit to Mick Foley. He had issues holding the top belt and they buried him / treated him like a chump.

Undertaker helped with the singles top of the card presentation and Mick helped Randy more than the faction in getting him noticed / and elevating his legend killer gimmick

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Saw Raw, didn't like Cody's selling of his broken kayfabe arm when coming out to fight Brock in the later segment.
Apart from that, Seth's sit in pre recorded interview with Corey was pretty good.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Not sure if true, but some articles suggest that AEW may file a lawsuit against CM Punk unless he doesn't provide consent for some things [MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION]

They originally agreed for Ace to return and go on the road, but something predictably happened since that rumour and now....I wonder what....

Apparently the documents AEW sent to Punk were for contractual purposes to cover an issues that may arise upon their working relationship moving forward. So by the looks of it,his return is still moving ahead.

The source on this was Fightful Select, who I still trust more than the AEW Observer Fan Club Newsletter.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

There’s potential it may have worked or at least the run could have been salvaged somewhat, but he wasn’t ready for the responsibility that came from being champion and filling Benoit’s boots, beating him and turning from a booking POV obviously wasn’t the clever thing to do either. Have you seen the ruthless aggression series on the Network? so good, one of the episodes goes into detail on Orton’s struggles as champion

I kinda agree with King. I think Orton during that time was such a natural a**hole, p*ick. And the reason he was so good at playing one was because he was one in real life. In many ways, his entire face run was doomed from the start. Alot of people even say that him winning the belt was just a way to erase Lesnar being the youngest WWE Champion ever.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Evolution didn’t do enough for Randy’s singles prospects at the top of the card, they got him noticed in the mid card, more than Evolution I give credit to Mick Foley. He had issues holding the top belt and they buried him / treated him like a chump.

Undertaker helped with the singles top of the card presentation and Mick helped Randy more than the faction in getting him noticed / and elevating his legend killer gimmick

Gotta give the most credit to Mick. Because Mick made Orton with that Hardcore match at Backlash the same way he made Triple H with the Street Fight and Hell in A Cell back in 2000. I think those matches really made you see both guys in a different light. And obviously the Taker feud is what propelled Orton to the next level. Orton during '05-06 was really hot. And a big part of it was him coming out of that year long feud with Taker. It's a shame that Batista got injured in '06 because I would have loved to see the originally planned match between him and Orton at WrestleMania. Evolution was still relatively fresh in people's minds so it would have made for a compelling narrative aswell.

I dunno if you watch the series WWE Rivals. It's a show that chronicles famous WWE feuds. They recently did a great episode on the Orton-Taker feud.

 

[shaz619]

I kinda agree with King. I think Orton during that time was such a natural a**hole, p*ick. And the reason he was so good at playing one was because he was one in real life. In many ways, his entire face run was doomed from the start. Alot of people even say that him winning the belt was just a way to erase Lesnar being the youngest WWE Champion ever.

People were shocked and on board with an Orton run, but they made some noticeable changes to his gimmick, you look at Austin’s turn from a tweener to a face, there weren’t any drastic changes to his core character. Orton went from being an edgy heel to a generic vanilla baby face (He got more pops as a heel than a face). The shock of his triumph suggests there was something there, but it wasn’t organic compared to Batista’s run to the top. Orton for sure is a natural heel but many things could have been done better, he was fed to the wolves essentially and his personal issues didn’t help either

 

[shaz619]

Gotta give the most credit to Mick. Because Mick made Orton with that Hardcore match at Backlash the same way he made Triple H with the Street Fight and Hell in A Cell back in 2000. I think those matches really made you see both guys in a different light. And obviously the Taker feud is what propelled Orton to the next level. Orton during '05-06 was really hot. And a big part of it was him coming out of that year long feud with Taker. It's a shame that Batista got injured in '06 because I would have loved to see the originally planned match between him and Orton at WrestleMania. Evolution was still relatively fresh in people's minds so it would have made for a compelling narrative aswell.

I dunno if you watch the series WWE Rivals. It's a show that chronicles famous WWE feuds. They recently did a great episode on the Orton-Taker feud.

Yes, that Batista/Orton match at that point would have been money. And also that match on RAW between Foley and Orton, so many memorable moments between the two, you don’t forget segments like Orton kicking Foley down the stairs.

Ah I’ve not had a chance to see that one will defo check it out, is it the same series which covered Angle / Michaels at WM 21? I totally recommend that one to

 

[shaz619]

Apparently the documents AEW sent to Punk were for contractual purposes to cover an issues that may arise upon their working relationship moving forward. So by the looks of it,his return is still moving ahead.

The source on this was Fightful Select, who I still trust more than the AEW Observer Fan Club Newsletter.

Right that’s cool then, the other reports were unnecessarily exaggerating.

Did you see the announcement for the AEW game?

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Guys some huge news, AEW fight forever has an official release date! it’s next month!!!

I am hyped.

Although to get the rating they wanted, many violent elements may have been toned down sadly. However, if the core gameplay is fun, I’m not bothered.

I really hope it’s critically acclaimed to give 2k a big kick up the behind, their games have been horrid

I was thinking of bumping you but then figured that you might be up on the news.

The news about the violence might be exaggerated a bit. I saw a couple of screengrabs of the game on the AEW Games Twitter that tried to rebuff this news. It showed a fair bit of blood. And from what I heard there are freaking molotov cocktails and all sorts of crazy s**t that you can use as weapons too.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Right that’s cool then, the other reports were unnecessarily exaggerating.

Did you see the announcement for the AEW game?

Yes. Super pumped. I will definitely be buying it as soon as it comes out.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Yes, that Batista/Orton match at that point would have been money. And also that match on RAW between Foley and Orton, so many memorable moments between the two, you don’t forget segments like Orton kicking Foley down the stairs.

Ah I’ve not had a chance to see that one will defo check it out, is it the same series which covered Angle / Michaels at WM 21? I totally recommend that one to

They ended that series. I think that was called WWE Untold. This is a different series that has Freddie Prinze Jr. as the host.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

People were shocked and on board with an Orton run, but they made some noticeable changes to his gimmick, you look at Austin’s turn from a tweener to a face, there weren’t any drastic changes to his core character. Orton went from being an edgy heel to a generic vanilla baby face (He got more pops as a heel than a face). The shock of his triumph suggests there was something there, but it wasn’t organic compared to Batista’s run to the top. Orton for sure is a natural heel but many things could have been done better, he was fed to the wolves essentially and his personal issues didn’t help either

Yeah that's the biggest difference between him and Batista imo. Batista's rise was organic. It was built up perfectly and the fans were clamoring for it. Orton's push felt very rushed. But in general, when I look at Orton's career...for me, he has always thrived as a heel. But I can't really point towards any great babyface run that he had. The incredible feud he had with Christian was probably his best time as a babyface. But even there, I would attribute the success of the feud more to Christian's terrific work as a heel.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

At any rate, I think by tomorrow we will know for sure if Punk is coming back or not. If the venue is the United Center than he is coming back. If its Daily's Place then you can be sure, the deal fell through.

 

[shaz619]

At any rate, I think by tomorrow we will know for sure if Punk is coming back or not. If the venue is the United Center than he is coming back. If its Daily's Place then you can be sure, the deal fell through.

He’s a magnet for so much negative press and most of it isn’t true, it has tarnished his image. He should sue most of these hipsters who pretend to be journalists

 

[shaz619]

Yeah that's the biggest difference between him and Batista imo. Batista's rise was organic. It was built up perfectly and the fans were clamoring for it. Orton's push felt very rushed. But in general, when I look at Orton's career...for me, he has always thrived as a heel. But I can't really point towards any great babyface run that he had. The incredible feud he had with Christian was probably his best time as a babyface. But even there, I would attribute the success of the feud more to Christian's terrific work as a heel.

I would say that’s mostly true, you could argue his best baby face work may have been done in the last 5-6 years or so, and especially now I think he’s at a point where people realise how special he is and how long he has been here and that the clock is ticking, naturally has a lot more baby face heat now more than ever and has crossed into the mainstream.

Batista’s initial push and run to WM one of the best this century

 

[shaz619]

I was thinking of bumping you but then figured that you might be up on the news.

The news about the violence might be exaggerated a bit. I saw a couple of screengrabs of the game on the AEW Games Twitter that tried to rebuff this news. It showed a fair bit of blood. And from what I heard there are freaking molotov cocktails and all sorts of crazy s**t that you can use as weapons too.

There is so much obsession with the violence or lack off or how it looks, if the engine is anything close to the classic N64 games, I think we’re onto a winner.

Unless they actually tank massively and there are loads of bugs, I’d be buying it although that emulation option is tempting, if it’s good, and we support, we may get further releases

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

He’s a magnet for so much negative press and most of it isn’t true, it has tarnished his image. He should sue most of these hipsters who pretend to be journalists

It is funny though that Punk, is generating more buzz just by sitting at home than anyone on the AEW roster or on AEW TV. Just goes to show how box-office this guy is.

I love MJF but this four pillars feud has been a giant waste of his time. If Tony had a lick of sense he would have booked MJF v Darby Allin. But instead he's intent on shoehorning Sammy and Jungle Jacka** into this feud and shoving them down our throats. Just because of some mark fantasy of creating his own version of All Japan's four pillars.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I would say that’s mostly true, you could argue his best baby face work may have been done in the last 5-6 years or so, and especially now I think he’s at a point where people realise how special he is and how long he has been here and that the clock is ticking, naturally has a lot more baby face heat now more than ever and has crossed into the mainstream.

Batista’s initial push and run to WM one of the best this century

Now he's in cruise control. There's nothing he cannot do. I'm sure if the story was there, he could go on an awesome babyface run as well. I just hope he's doing okay. Been hearing some troubling news about the nature of his injury.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

There is so much obsession with the violence or lack off or how it looks, if the engine is anything close to the classic N64 games, I think we’re onto a winner.

Unless they actually tank massively and there are loads of bugs, I’d be buying it although that emulation option is tempting, if it’s good, and we support, we may get further releases

Yeah I didn't even think about that lol. Got 2K20 and CyberPunk PTSD after reading your post haha. I think if there are bugs though news will get out pretty fast. So my hope is that they have all bases covered, because that could be very damaging from a PR point of view for AEW. Especially since the time taken to complete this game has been so well publicized with a top star and EVP involved in its creation.

 

[shaz619]

Yeah I didn't even think about that lol. Got 2K20 and CyberPunk PTSD after reading your post haha. I think if there are bugs though news will get out pretty fast. So my hope is that they have all bases covered, because that could be very damaging from a PR point of view for AEW. Especially since the time taken to complete this game has been so well publicized with a top star and EVP involved in its creation.

Yes especially for a first release, even TNA had success with that. That game is under rated, if only the controls were simpler then that off space craft.

This is the one thing I have trust in Kenny to deliver, it would be a major humiliation if there are problems.

The release is end of June, is Punk going to appear before then? if so, it would make sense, especially if they are then able to use his names and likenesses to hype the game to another level

 

[shaz619]

Now he's in cruise control. There's nothing he cannot do. I'm sure if the story was there, he could go on an awesome babyface run as well. I just hope he's doing okay. Been hearing some troubling news about the nature of his injury.

Very troubling, he’s the last guy who I’d ever imagine his career ending due to an injury

 

[shaz619]

It is funny though that Punk, is generating more buzz just by sitting at home than anyone on the AEW roster or on AEW TV. Just goes to show how box-office this guy is.

I love MJF but this four pillars feud has been a giant waste of his time. If Tony had a lick of sense he would have booked MJF v Darby Allin. But instead he's intent on shoehorning Sammy and Jungle Jacka** into this feud and shoving them down our throats. Just because of some mark fantasy of creating his own version of All Japan's four pillars.

That’s hilariously true when you put it like that

I don’t remember anyone creating this much buzz just sitting on the shelf, apart from Austin in the early 2000’s?

 

[Firebat]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="zxx" dir="ltr"><a href="https://t.co/5lAHeOVAfQ">pic.twitter.com/5lAHeOVAfQ</a></p>— Memorable Moments From WWE Promos (@PromoMomentsWWE) <a href="https://twitter.com/PromoMomentsWWE/status/1661390754034401280?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 24, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

R Truth has to be a shoo-in for HOF induction )

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Yes especially for a first release, even TNA had success with that. That game is under rated, if only the controls were simpler then that off space craft.

This is the one thing I have trust in Kenny to deliver, it would be a major humiliation if there are problems.

The release is end of June, is Punk going to appear before then? if so, it would make sense, especially if they are then able to use his names and likenesses to hype the game to another level

I'm pretty sure he is already in the game. But the game will look a little outdated because of how long it has been in development. The arenas, logos etc. might. Still tho I'm pumped for this game. And you're right, AEW have alot riding on this game because of how much they've spent on it.

Omega's stands more to lose from this (reputation-wise) than he ever did wrestling any blow-up doll or child.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

That’s hilariously true when you put it like that

I don’t remember anyone creating this much buzz just sitting on the shelf, apart from Austin in the early 2000’s?

Actually there was someone else...Punk himself, 2 years ago

Well, the good news is that Punk is coming back. And apparently Tony and Punk had been communicating throughout despite whatever happened that led to Punk's name being omitted from the press release.

So yet again we had a case of the dirtsheets playing up this story when they clearly did not have the full story.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

AJ vs Seth lived upto the hype. Wasn't as fast paced as their previous encounters and it worked. AJ was fantastic and they got fatigue to play out well there except for the ending.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Cody Lesnar was one of the best less than 10 min matches I have seen in recent years. Cody is at another level compared to his peers. He's easily one notch above Seth, Mox, Kenny, KO etc

 

[BunnyRabbit]

The crowd reaction for Sami. My goodness. This is amongst the loudest since the Attitude Era. Roman had to intervene to try to cut crowd off to start the match.

Sami is even more over here than Canada.
[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION]

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Wrestling Perfection. Entertainment of the highest order. PPV of the year for me!

You can see how much all 6 enjoyed it. That's how you send the crowd home happy.

 

[shaz619]

The crowd reaction for Sami. My goodness. This is amongst the loudest since the Attitude Era. Roman had to intervene to try to cut crowd off to start the match.

Sami is even more over here than Canada.
[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION]

Absolutely, Sami is mega over all around the world, we will see that reinforced in a few months time in the UK. Each event goes by and it couldn't be more clear, that Sami should still be that guy to dethrone Reigns. He can carry the strap and headline all their house shows, it just makes a lot of sense from a story and business POV.

Great PPV, I watched it in the background during a family gathering. Each match had great flow and there was barely an average match on the card outside the squash.

I am disgusted that Seth Rollins won, and even more that his daddy came out to hog the spotlight. Seth is going to be away for a few months, so much for being the peoples champion. There was no harm in putting the belt on AJ in the interim.

The main event was pure Cinema, I was actually in shock when Jimmy first hit the super kick, it didn't register LOL I got a lot of questions from casuals on this match, they were all super engaged.

This was a stacked card and in the past few years they've all been great, it was nice to watch it during normal hours

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Absolutely, Sami is mega over all around the world, we will see that reinforced in a few months time in the UK. Each event goes by and it couldn't be more clear, that Sami should still be that guy to dethrone Reigns. He can carry the strap and headline all their house shows, it just makes a lot of sense from a story and business POV.

Great PPV, I watched it in the background during a family gathering. Each match had great flow and there was barely an average match on the card outside the squash.

I am disgusted that Seth Rollins won, and even more that his daddy came out to hog the spotlight. Seth is going to be away for a few months, so much for being the peoples champion. There was no harm in putting the belt on AJ in the interim.

The main event was pure Cinema, I was actually in shock when Jimmy first hit the super kick, it didn't register LOL I got a lot of questions from casuals on this match, they were all super engaged.

This was a stacked card and in the past few years they've all been great, it was nice to watch it during normal hours

I actually streamed it. Skipped all 3 womens match. Mustafa Ali had a good showing too. Cody Lesnar did a great match. Lesnar's sold for Cody brilliantly. But the main event was perfection. Sami coming out wearing a chogha and cutting a promo in arabic. You could see how much being there meant to him and he got to perform umrah too.

Roman was extremely good in the tag match as well. The guy is scaling new heights.

I am fine with Seth winning. It was a given since AJ is on SD. Think Seth's finished filming his scenes for Cap America.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Absolutely, Sami is mega over all around the world, we will see that reinforced in a few months time in the UK. Each event goes by and it couldn't be more clear, that Sami should still be that guy to dethrone Reigns. He can carry the strap and headline all their house shows, it just makes a lot of sense from a story and business POV.

Great PPV, I watched it in the background during a family gathering. Each match had great flow and there was barely an average match on the card outside the squash.

I am disgusted that Seth Rollins won, and even more that his daddy came out to hog the spotlight. Seth is going to be away for a few months, so much for being the peoples champion. There was no harm in putting the belt on AJ in the interim.

The main event was pure Cinema, I was actually in shock when Jimmy first hit the super kick, it didn't register LOL I got a lot of questions from casuals on this match, they were all super engaged.

This was a stacked card and in the past few years they've all been great, it was nice to watch it during normal hours

I didn't think Sami's booking could be redeemed after he suffered a loss at Montreal. But at NOC it was even bigger and I haven't seen a WWE match with that much crowd engagement in 20 years.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

It was a pretty good show, Night of Champions. But I can't say that it blew me away. From a story POV, the main-event was excellent. And it was nice to see KO and Sami finally get the big W over Roman. Even if it came in a tag match.

Lots of really good matches but nothing outstanding or mindblowing.

Still haven't see the AEW PPV which seems to have disappointed many barring the last two matches.

 

[shaz619]

It was a pretty good show, Night of Champions. But I can't say that it blew me away. From a story POV, the main-event was excellent. And it was nice to see KO and Sami finally get the big W over Roman. Even if it came in a tag match.

Lots of really good matches but nothing outstanding or mindblowing.

Still haven't see the AEW PPV which seems to have disappointed many barring the last two matches.

I think especially now, good to great matches with a hot main event, we’re looking at contender for PPV of the year. It’s rare to get 2+ outstanding matches on a major show, the events which do, are probably among the best PPV’s in history.

What I liked about this show was the flow and nice transition from match to match, each bout had its own thing going and it’s one of those rare instances where time just flew by and the performers made excellent use of their slots, I was surprised to find how short some of the matches were, that’s generally a good sign of how things went.

Onto MITB now and may tune into FD after Bryan / Okada was announced will watch that at least, I just hope Okada is not presented like a homeless person from the streets again, otherwise he is better off now showing until the PPV.

I worry about MITB ladder matches, it seems like they have made it acceptable to cash in on mid card belts which is non-sensical from a kayfabe POV.

Also, not sure if true, but apparently, Seth is half doing a drag queen gimmick, WWE may want to pander to some liberals under 4/10.

In more exciting news, we are days away now from a Punk comeback and AEW’s new game!! most exciting June in a long time in the wrestling world maybe since 2011

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Finally saw the AEW PPV. And man, what a disappointment. There was a ton of stuff to laugh at here or be entertained by. But as a serious wrestling PPV, this was a major misfire.

I thoroughly enjoyed FTR v Jarrett/Lethal. Mostly because it was an old school rasslin' match where the rasslin' was very good and even the theatrics were entertaining.

The best match on the show was easily the World title Four Way. As a four way match, this was as good as they could have done it. There was minimal amount of one guy laying on the outside for an eternity and I think they did well to incorporate all four competitors into the match. Sammy and Darby both had some big moments where you could almost believe they had a chance to win. Overall, though it was quite entertaining. An easy 4/5.

Statlander dethroning Jade was brilliantly done. Full credit to AEW for atleast trying to create a new female star, and giving us some pay-off to Jade's streak. Statlander has size, a good look and her work is fairly good. The stupid alien gimmick also seems to be gone. If AEW don't screw this up they could have a big female star on their hands.

But besides that, this was a rough show.

Christian v Wardlow started off great initially. They were doing the Benoit-Jericho Ladder match deal where they were using the ladder more to beat each other up than climb it. But once Luchasaurus and Arn got involved, this match began to go downhill. It got super convoluted. Arn biting Luchsaurus's finger off looked remarkably fake and bad. And in the end Wardlow came out of another match against a veteran no more over than he was going in.

The worst thing on this show though was easily Jericho v Adam Cole. Just when you thought Jericho couldn't sink any lower, he found a way to put on the WORST PPV match that I've ever seen from any major pro-wrestling promotion in recent years. This was absolutely awful without a single redeeming quality. It went 20 minutes but felt like it went twice as long. It had a plodding, snail pace, the work was lazy and the crowd was dead silent for most of it. By the end they were just relieved that it was over.

The main-event was exactly what I expected it to be. And honestly at this point I feel like I have become sensitized to all this violence because it seems to happen every week on Dynamite. So we got a match where Moxley bled, there was glass, barbed wire, thumbtacks and they did the lazy walking/brawling all over the arena. They had to add a signature flourish so this time around we got Matt Jackson super kicking Moxley with some kind of explosive/firework taped to his shoe. And ofcourse Moxley got up 2 minutes later. The funniest thing tho was the lead singer from this unknown band, who was doing an awful live performance of Wild Thing for the first 9 minutes of this match, coming out in mask that looked like freaking blackface!

Anyway, this PPV was a massive misfire. Which is disappointing because AEW's PPVs generally tend to be really good.

 

[shaz619]

AEW events are rarely good from the top to bottom, it’s generally a Vince Russo approach of throwing sh!t at the wall and seeing what sticks. Even with more time to build events, their PPV’s suffer. Apart from Bryan, MJF and Jade Cargil, there’s no one else to look forward to, and Mox in-ring IQ has regressed considerably.

In the past the likes of Cody, MJF, Punk and maybe Darby to some extent could mask the lack of consistency. But they are overly exposed.

In many ways this is AEW’s identity, trying to be a jack of all trades and a master of none. The return of Punk and this new Saturday show, it my hope this adds more structure to highly stoned AEW product

 

[shaz619]

I feel sorry for people who had to pay for that, what a shambles. Not one match justifies the PPV cost. But then again, they have their nice audience, and according to Uncle Dave, they always do decent buys

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I think especially now, good to great matches with a hot main event, we’re looking at contender for PPV of the year. It’s rare to get 2+ outstanding matches on a major show, the events which do, are probably among the best PPV’s in history.

What I liked about this show was the flow and nice transition from match to match, each bout had its own thing going and it’s one of those rare instances where time just flew by and the performers made excellent use of their slots, I was surprised to find how short some of the matches were, that’s generally a good sign of how things went.

Onto MITB now and may tune into FD after Bryan / Okada was announced will watch that at least, I just hope Okada is not presented like a homeless person from the streets again, otherwise he is better off now showing until the PPV.

I worry about MITB ladder matches, it seems like they have made it acceptable to cash in on mid card belts which is non-sensical from a kayfabe POV.

Also, not sure if true, but apparently, Seth is half doing a drag queen gimmick, WWE may want to pander to some liberals under 4/10.

In more exciting news, we are days away now from a Punk comeback and AEW’s new game!! most exciting June in a long time in the wrestling world maybe since 2011

I just hope people can finally accept now that AEW is nothing without Punk. He is the only major draw in the company and no one even comes close. Punk's AEW return drew 205,000 PPV buys --- the most in AEW's history. DoN last year drew 165,000 PPV buys because people wanted to see him win the World title. Compare that to what AEW is drawing now which is 130,000-135,000. And that's not even all. The first million dollar gate was because of Punk, now they can't even fill up the entire arena for such a major PPV. When Punk was on TV they were doing 1 million or either close to or just above that in the ratings consistently. Now they struggle to hit 900,000. And usually stay in the 800,000 range.

The lack of success of this PPV in particular made this more evident than ever. This PPV was sold on the BCC v The Elite and MJF v the other pillars and they couldn't even get the arena at over 70% capacity.

Anyway, hope that the return of Punk reinvigorates things. Hearing alot of news that Punk and Ace Steel will be involved heavily in the creative of Collision, which is a major positive. Punk also has a very good idea of who he can get a good match/program out of so if everything goes to plan, Collision could be a must watch show and much better than Dynamite. Even the rumor mill seems to indicate that the locker-room has cooled off on the Punk-bashing. Which means that the only people that might have a problem with him are the guys he beat the snot out of and the empty-headed dumb***k.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

What are people's memories of the Undertaker-Orton feud of 2005? I wasn't following at that time, but it produced so many iconic segments and clips, some of which are below.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/fH2YYlWvXEA" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Surely one of the best of the ruthless aggression era?

Orton was pushed way too much and way too fast. Him winning the World title in 2004 was a bloody joke. There was no need to book him so strongly. But then again look who he was working with. So not a surprise. His title reign was a massive failure. He was never going to be The GUY.

Just not believable as a face. He was always going to be the guy who work with the top face much like his mentor Triple H.

Benoit losing to Orton in Canada of all places was an absolute travesty. Y2J was the biggest face on Raw once Goldberg left and it's shocking they didn't even consider him for the title- every arena they went that years had massive Y2J chants . Vince never saw him as for convincing champ for whatever stupid reason and he didn't have HHH's support either

So in that sense, I was glad that Orton went to the mid card . His feud with Undertaker was brilliant. Orton is a natural heel and should have won his first world title in either 2007 or 2008 after paying his dues

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Orton was pushed way too much and way too fast. Him winning the World title in 2004 was a bloody joke. There was no need to book him so strongly. But then again look who he was working with. So not a surprise. His title reign was a massive failure. He was never going to be The GUY.

Just not believable as a face. He was always going to be the guy who work with the top face much like his mentor Triple H.

Benoit losing to Orton in Canada of all places was an absolute travesty. Y2J was the biggest face on Raw once Goldberg left and it's shocking they didn't even consider him for the title- every arena they went that years had massive Y2J chants . Vince never saw him as for convincing champ for whatever stupid reason and he didn't have HHH's support either

So in that sense, I was glad that Orton went to the mid card . His feud with Undertaker was brilliant. Orton is a natural heel and should have won his first world title in either 2007 or 2008 after paying his dues

HHH was involved way too much in the creative of RAW at this point of time. Especially for an active wrestler that was a top guy. In hindsight, it's hardly surprising that he is running the show now. We all know that he had alot to do with Batista's push and rise to the top. And while that made sense because the fans wanted it, in every other instance, it was a case of him burying the entire RAW roster. The Jericho part does not surprise me considering that Jericho and H hated each other the moment Jericho got to WWE.

With Benoit, I think H always had alot of respect for him. And in 2003/04 there was definitely a view within the company to reward Benoit for all his hard work. But that probably had more to do with Vince who never saw Benoit as a top guy despite everything he offered in the ring.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Orton was pushed way too much and way too fast. Him winning the World title in 2004 was a bloody joke. There was no need to book him so strongly. But then again look who he was working with. So not a surprise. His title reign was a massive failure. He was never going to be The GUY.

Just not believable as a face. He was always going to be the guy who work with the top face much like his mentor Triple H.

Benoit losing to Orton in Canada of all places was an absolute travesty. Y2J was the biggest face on Raw once Goldberg left and it's shocking they didn't even consider him for the title- every arena they went that years had massive Y2J chants . Vince never saw him as for convincing champ for whatever stupid reason and he didn't have HHH's support either

So in that sense, I was glad that Orton went to the mid card . His feud with Undertaker was brilliant. Orton is a natural heel and should have won his first world title in either 2007 or 2008 after paying his dues

In a perfect world, Orton and Batista feud for the World title between 2006-07 leading to atleast one match at WrestleMania. The story was there and the break-up of Evolution was fresh in everyone's minds. Could have been great, for the evolution (no pun intended) of both guys's career at that point.

 

[shaz619]

HHH was involved way too much in the creative of RAW at this point of time. Especially for an active wrestler that was a top guy. In hindsight, it's hardly surprising that he is running the show now. We all know that he had alot to do with Batista's push and rise to the top. And while that made sense because the fans wanted it, in every other instance, it was a case of him burying the entire RAW roster. The Jericho part does not surprise me considering that Jericho and H hated each other the moment Jericho got to WWE.

With Benoit, I think H always had alot of respect for him. And in 2003/04 there was definitely a view within the company to reward Benoit for all his hard work. But that probably had more to do with Vince who never saw Benoit as a top guy despite everything he offered in the ring.

Batista would have got a push despite Hunter. Vince in such a mark for a real good physique and even when he came in as Devon’s body guard, he had the IT factor, the fans knew he was something special, he was a major project who they worked on since signing him to OVW. Batista was old by WWE’s main event top guy standards, but that didn’t stop Vince from signing off on his run. Batista and AJ Styles were both around about the same age I think when they won their first world title, maybe DDP to.

It wouldn’t shock me that Hunter sabotaged Jericho’s push, what was it with Jericho rubbing his head with everyone on those days though he was crazy over, I think Vince believed in him, but someone like him was not going to benefit from the turbulent booking of the AE era, he probably should have thrived in the RA era, but by that point, with Austin and Rock gone, HHH running things, doesn’t surprise me that Jericho left the company.

All things considered they still gave Benoit a run, and even Vince couldn’t ignore the fans, he had to cash in. They rarely had him doing stupid sh!t which shows how admired and respected he was backstage. Looking back, Benoit could have benefited from a Lesnar esque push from our era today, it would also have helped hide some of his flaws.

 

[shaz619]

I just hope people can finally accept now that AEW is nothing without Punk. He is the only major draw in the company and no one even comes close. Punk's AEW return drew 205,000 PPV buys --- the most in AEW's history. DoN last year drew 165,000 PPV buys because people wanted to see him win the World title. Compare that to what AEW is drawing now which is 130,000-135,000. And that's not even all. The first million dollar gate was because of Punk, now they can't even fill up the entire arena for such a major PPV. When Punk was on TV they were doing 1 million or either close to or just above that in the ratings consistently. Now they struggle to hit 900,000. And usually stay in the 800,000 range.

The lack of success of this PPV in particular made this more evident than ever. This PPV was sold on the BCC v The Elite and MJF v the other pillars and they couldn't even get the arena at over 70% capacity.

Anyway, hope that the return of Punk reinvigorates things. Hearing alot of news that Punk and Ace Steel will be involved heavily in the creative of Collision, which is a major positive. Punk also has a very good idea of who he can get a good match/program out of so if everything goes to plan, Collision could be a must watch show and much better than Dynamite. Even the rumor mill seems to indicate that the locker-room has cooled off on the Punk-bashing. Which means that the only people that might have a problem with him are the guys he beat the snot out of and the empty-headed dumb***k.

It was funny how they use to plug every stat which seemingly showed how AEW didn’t need him and what not, after a month to, the trend shows you the reality. It doesn’t surprise me those mortons still have a problem. Man, they really are a special piece of work, even Edge and Matt worked on some level when they had every right to tear each other apart

 

[Hitman]

The Iron Sheik has passed away at the age of 81. We have lost another legend in the business. What a great wrestler and a great heel he was.

RIP!

 

[shaz619]

The Iron Sheik has passed away at the age of 81. We have lost another legend in the business. What a great wrestler and a great heel he was.

RIP!

RIP to the great legend, a pioneer of the industry and a guy who crossed over to the main stream and has been over until his last breath. A tremendous athlete in his prime, a legit bad *** and one hell of a personality.

It’s fair to say, the following will be inscribed on his gravestone:

F The Hulk Hogan Bubba

 

[shaz619]

RIP to the great legend, a pioneer of the industry and a guy who crossed over to the main stream and has been over until his last breath. A tremendous athlete in his prime, a legit bad *** and one hell of a personality.

It’s fair to say, the following will be inscribed on his gravestone:

F The Hulk Hogan Bubba

[MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION] the great man has left us, his world title run, iconic rivalry with hogan and immortal tag team with Nikolai Volkoff will live forever, the first two trolls the business had ever seen

 

[Suleiman]

The Iron Sheik has passed away at the age of 81. We have lost another legend in the business. What a great wrestler and a great heel he was.

RIP!

RIP, just read an article regarding him a few weeks back. One of the founding fathers of wrestling entertainment.

 

[Markhor]

[MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION] the great man has left us, his world title run, iconic rivalry with hogan and immortal tag team with Nikolai Volkoff will live forever, the first two trolls the business had ever seen

Oh no ! Truly one of the most unique personalities in wrestling with an extraordinary backstory. He was the bodyguard to the Shah of Iran, but fled to America after the murder (or suicide if you believe the official line) of his mentor Gholamraza Takhti, a famous amateur wrestler who became outspoken against the regime.

The Iranian Hostage Crisis turned him into one of the hottest heels of all time, becoming the first Muslim World Champion, and ushered in the Golden Era of wrestling by laying down for Hogan. Sadly his career never scaled those heights again.

He was part of the infamous incident in 1987 when he and Jim Duggan were arrested in New Jersey on drug possession charges. Heels and babyfaces travelling together is no big deal now, but in the kayfabe era it created a media firestorm.

It was no secret despite being a Muslim, Sheik was a legendary partier and openly admitted using drugs and alcohol, including snorting coke while doing handstands ! IMO he really fell off the rails in 2003 after the tragic murder of his daughter Marissa by her boyfriend. There's a heart-wrenching YouTube clip of Sheik reciting Surah Fatiha by her graveside. May Allah grant both a place in Paradise together.

Remarkably Sheik then reinvents himself as an internet sensation with foul mouthed shoot interviews. His mangled English contributed to his comedic appeal. However I felt some of his handlers exploited his substance-induced emotional state. Thankfully he got clean in the final years of his life.

A one-off who will never, ever be forgotten.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

RIP. Loved his tweets and interviews.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION]

Anything good going on in wrestling these days? I just saw a clip of Bloodline segment on SD with Solo's swerve.

Seems like it will be Roman vs Jimmy at SS. And Jey vs Roman down the line. For some reason, it has started to increasingly look like Jey would be the one to put Roman down as the storyline started with Jey as well.

I am in US these days and finding it hard to keep up with wrestling here.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

The Iron Sheik has passed away at the age of 81. We have lost another legend in the business. What a great wrestler and a great heel he was.

RIP!

RIP. Truly one of the greatest heels the wrestling business ever saw. He was remarkably over during the 80's, especially during that feud with Hogan. Those who haven't seen The Sheik vs. Sgt. Slaughter in a Bootcamp match at MSG need to do themselves a favor and see it. It has to be one of the bloodiest wrestling matches I've ever seen. Other than that, he was also a wildly entertaining personality. WWE did an amazing job of covering his life and career just recently in their Biography series.

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION]

Anything good going on in wrestling these days? I just saw a clip of Bloodline segment on SD with Solo's swerve.

Seems like it will be Roman vs Jimmy at SS. And Jey vs Roman down the line. For some reason, it has started to increasingly look like Jey would be the one to put Roman down as the storyline started with Jey as well.

I am in US these days and finding it hard to keep up with wrestling here.

The bloodline stuff as always is box office they do some great numbers on SD, I think MJF and Cole might be feuding so that’s worth checking out to perhaps.

Ah I love how they are bringing Jimmy’s arc now. I would love for any member of the bloodline or ex member in Sami to dethrone Reigns, not counting Solo. It would be the perfect ending to arguably the best storyline of the last 10 years.

 

[shaz619]

Oh no ! Truly one of the most unique personalities in wrestling with an extraordinary backstory. He was the bodyguard to the Shah of Iran, but fled to America after the murder (or suicide if you believe the official line) of his mentor Gholamraza Takhti, a famous amateur wrestler who became outspoken against the regime.

The Iranian Hostage Crisis turned him into one of the hottest heels of all time, becoming the first Muslim World Champion, and ushered in the Golden Era of wrestling by laying down for Hogan. Sadly his career never scaled those heights again.

He was part of the infamous incident in 1987 when he and Jim Duggan were arrested in New Jersey on drug possession charges. Heels and babyfaces travelling together is no big deal now, but in the kayfabe era it created a media firestorm.

It was no secret despite being a Muslim, Sheik was a legendary partier and openly admitted using drugs and alcohol, including snorting coke while doing handstands ! IMO he really fell off the rails in 2003 after the tragic murder of his daughter Marissa by her boyfriend. There's a heart-wrenching YouTube clip of Sheik reciting Surah Fatiha by her graveside. May Allah grant both a place in Paradise together.

Remarkably Sheik then reinvents himself as an internet sensation with foul mouthed shoot interviews. His mangled English contributed to his comedic appeal. However I felt some of his handlers exploited his substance-induced emotional state. Thankfully he got clean in the final years of his life.

A one-off who will never, ever be forgotten.

Nice tribute there, it’s especially overlooked that he is the first Muslim world champion, despite his own personal choices, he wasn’t afraid to wear his faith on his sleeve. I wonder if there have been any other Muslim world champions besides sheikhy, that have won either NWA, WCW or WWF/E world championships.

Muhammad Hassan was rumoured to beat Batista for the WHC

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Nice tribute there, it’s especially overlooked that he is the first Muslim world champion, despite his own personal choices, he wasn’t afraid to wear his faith on his sleeve. I wonder if there have been any other Muslim world champions besides sheikhy, that have won either NWA, WCW or WWF/E world championships.

Muhammad Hassan was rumoured to beat Batista for the WHC

Wasn't the guy Muhammad Hassan Puerto Rican?

 

[BunnyRabbit]

The bloodline stuff as always is box office they do some great numbers on SD, I think MJF and Cole might be feuding so that’s worth checking out to perhaps.

Ah I love how they are bringing Jimmy’s arc now. I would love for any member of the bloodline or ex member in Sami to dethrone Reigns, not counting Solo. It would be the perfect ending to arguably the best storyline of the last 10 years.

The longer they take Jey to finally turn, the bigger face he'll become. The only problem is he's still untested as a singles guy. Solo doesn't do it for me. He's way too green and the audience doesn't really know him. He just burst on the scene last year.

Adam Cole as a face doesn't do it for me for some reason.

 

[shaz619]

Wasn't the guy Muhammad Hassan Puerto Rican?

Italian

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Italian

Yup so even then, if he had won the title, it wouldn't have been a Muslim becoming a WWE champ. His gimmick was of a Muslim (or lack of)