The Wrestling Discussion Thread

[shaz619]

Ricochet vents frustrations about not getting the same chances as Seth, AJ and Cody. With all due respect, I think the ceiling is higher with AJ and present day Cody. That’s not to say Ricochet couldn’t have crossed into the main event scene. I think it’s fair to say, WWE have underutilised him, sure it’s tougher, but I don’t think they’ve helped him develop or supported him with shrewd booking. He is just a guy who can have a match and do some cool moved when we know he is more than that. Outside some scandalous segments in New Japan, he had a decent run there and was showcased well, and for Lucha Underground, he was the star of the show. With WWE he has been exploited for wanting to work there and he seems to be happy to do so, accountability on both sides

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Ricochet vents frustrations about not getting the same chances as Seth, AJ and Cody. With all due respect, I think the ceiling is higher with AJ and present day Cody. That’s not to say Ricochet couldn’t have crossed into the main event scene. I think it’s fair to say, WWE have underutilised him, sure it’s tougher, but I don’t think they’ve helped him develop or supported him with shrewd booking. He is just a guy who can have a match and do some cool moved when we know he is more than that. Outside some scandalous segments in New Japan, he had a decent run there and was showcased well, and for Lucha Underground, he was the star of the show. With WWE he has been exploited for wanting to work there and he seems to be happy to do so, accountability on both sides

Ricochet is my favorite high flyer currently in terms of in ring ability. But his problem is, he has minimal to zero mic skills. He hasn't improved on that aspect one bit. He can only go so far with his in ring work, you need to have a character and promo ability to get to that top card.

However, he definitely suffered from poor booking after his Lesnar match back in 2020. He was squashed for 4 months straight by Sheamus afterwards and since then, has lost that appeal with the crowd.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

For me personally, out of the current Japanese stars, only Okada, Nakamura and Tanahashi’s best compare to the peak of KENTA who had success in Asia and North America, which is rare. Unfortunately some of the fans who only saw his awful NXT run may not see this.

When you look at the last 20 years, I think Nakamura, KENTA and Morishima are the only names who have had credible sustained runs in the states. Man Bryan had amazing matches with everyone and their distinct styles come to think about it, ROH in their peak wasn’t limited to the same kind of matches between the same sort of styles on loop

Will again disagree here lol. Never liked Nakamura even during his NJPW days. I just don't get his style. AJ ran circles around him even during their NJPW feud.

Bryan and AJ definitely have a legit claim to be the best wrestlers of this era and should be mentioned alongside the likes of Cena, Randy, Punk and Jeff etc.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

It’s one of those rare instances where injuries, age and poor booking has somewhat hurt the stature of KENTA, he has had to adapt his style to now due to the toll he has suffered due to some extremely physical matches. When I said I don’t think he’s a stylistic match for Punk, it’s due to him not being the right sort of opponent in this moment, there’s potential to work something out down the line and there’s every possibility it could be great, but I just feel they may not mesh well for a cold match.

KENTA is not over rated at all, for many years he was a top star in Japan, and arguably one of Noah’s biggest star as they looked to expand their global fanbase. He was quiet revered by the smark fans in the US, KENTA was trained by KENTA Kobashi, he was small and worked a very physical style, very similar to Bryan, technically he was sound, his striking was exceptional and his work was very gritty. I’d put his peak around those 4 or 5 years where he made appearances for ROH. His match with Bryan at Glory by honor was a dream match at the time and there was a lot of hype, they were both regarded as the best technical wrestlers in each respective continent and Bryan’s separated shoulder just three weeks earlier added to the build, KENTA was super feared due to his ferocious striking and there was legit concern for Bryan who had established himself as a great champion, it was one of those rare occasions where you believed they could have the foreign star coming in go over. For me this was one of the matches of the year and arguably Bryan’s best match, certainly his most important and iconic on the independent circuit, check it out on youtube

2008-14 were my lost years of wrestling where apart from keeping an eye on the results and for a brief period during Edge's retirement time and Dwayne's return, I missed all of it.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] Just saw the bloodline segment from SD. Terrific stuff as usual.

All of them are just so good in their roles. Seems like the long term plan is to turn Roman face to save Usos some time around Mania maybe.

 

[shaz619]

Will again disagree here lol. Never liked Nakamura even during his NJPW days. I just don't get his style. AJ ran circles around him even during their NJPW feud.

Bryan and AJ definitely have a legit claim to be the best wrestlers of this era and should be mentioned alongside the likes of Cena, Randy, Punk and Jeff etc.

Nakamura is arguably the most charismatic Japanese wrestler since the great muta imo I think once he transitioned into the king of strong style he took his persona to another level in Japan, he was always highly rated for his ring work, there’s no shortage of good to fantastic matches in NJPW. He was one of AJ’s better opponents down there, who could match his level, which created hype for the match in the states. My favourite match of his was against Kota Ibushi at WrestleKingdom with JR or Mauro on commentary I think, he came into the E very hot and had possibly the best Takeover match in history with Sami Zayn. I think his main roster run has been fine but if it was treated more like Asuka’s, there is some untapped potential there, all things considered he has been respected

Yeah no doubt with AJ and Bryan for sure

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] Just saw the bloodline segment from SD. Terrific stuff as usual.

All of them are just so good in their roles. Seems like the long term plan is to turn Roman face to save Usos some time around Mania maybe.

I am away hoping to catch up soon, I may have to wait a bit to see what Punk says to. Great weekend of wrestling

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Nakamura is arguably the most charismatic Japanese wrestler since the great muta imo I think once he transitioned into the king of strong style he took his persona to another level in Japan, he was always highly rated for his ring work, there’s no shortage of good to fantastic matches in NJPW. He was one of AJ’s better opponents down there, who could match his level, which created hype for the match in the states. My favourite match of his was against Kota Ibushi at WrestleKingdom with JR or Mauro on commentary I think, he came into the E very hot and had possibly the best Takeover match in history with Sami Zayn. I think his main roster run has been fine but if it was treated more like Asuka’s, there is some untapped potential there, all things considered he has been respected

Yeah no doubt with AJ and Bryan for sure

IMO Asuka is a better wrestler than Nakamura. Just my opinion. Nakamura gasses out very early.

 

[shaz619]

IMO Asuka is a better wrestler than Nakamura. Just my opinion. Nakamura gasses out very early.

Possibly, although I consider them on a similar wavelength. I disagree bro on his engine, he’s not had the platform to do those matches enough in the E but has plenty under his belt, he was a former mixed martial artist to and has that conditioning, his training is very lateral

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Possibly, although I consider them on a similar wavelength. I disagree bro on his engine, he’s not had the platform to do those matches enough in the E but has plenty under his belt, he was a former mixed martial artist to and has that conditioning, his training is very lateral

Don't know maybe it's personal preference but I haven't found Nakamura to be that great of a worker. His match with Tanahashi was no where match of the year stuff either but IWC tells everyone how it is the best match ever.

 

[shaz619]

Don't know maybe it's personal preference but I haven't found Nakamura to be that great of a worker. His match with Tanahashi was no where match of the year stuff either but IWC tells everyone how it is the best match ever.

I don’t know which match of his with Tanahashi is over rated ? but he has had classics with the likes of Ibushi, Styles, Okada and Sami Zayn are the stuff off legend. The one with Ibushi at WK9 is his best in New Japan imo , pressure was on him to help present Ibushi as the next big star to the world and he delivered, the styles meshed beautifully. And then under immense spotlight, his debut in NXT against Sami is a night no wrestling fan can forget, if you felt his shtick was hyped, you watch the match, even cold, and you get his charisma and stature

 

[shaz619]

Incredible promo from Punk, he doesn’t need to say much to illicit pure theatre. The raw emotion, passion and energy, you just feel the blend in abundance, it’s like wrestling stands still when Punk’s on TV. Arguably the biggest star to debut in a major company from the past 15-20 years, certainly up there with the biggest names. It would appear he is still in a tweener type character which is interesting. I loved the main event it was so much fun, Punk didn’t need to do much to keep the match so hot but his stuff looked good, however I think AEW need to protect him, his body is not numb to bumps anymore, I do think a heel turn would help his ring work and longevity though as an in-ring performer; but when he can talk like that, I think Punk sometimes forgets how big he is, the guy doesn’t need to have epic wars every time. The digs at the elite were the stuff off legend, the commentary team was outstanding, JR was there despite having a bad black eye with his passion, the kevin kelly bloke played his part and Nigel was outstanding really, they added great value. There really is no one fit to lace Punk’s boots, he brings out nasha you can only comprehend by watching the magic he creates. Wrestling is back bayy bayyy!!

Thoughts guys?

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I don’t know which match of his with Tanahashi is over rated ? but he has had classics with the likes of Ibushi, Styles, Okada and Sami Zayn are the stuff off legend. The one with Ibushi at WK9 is his best in New Japan imo , pressure was on him to help present Ibushi as the next big star to the world and he delivered, the styles meshed beautifully. And then under immense spotlight, his debut in NXT against Sami is a night no wrestling fan can forget, if you felt his shtick was hyped, you watch the match, even cold, and you get his charisma and stature

Yes I watched the Sami vs Nakamura when it was held. I liked it. But I soured on him during his feud with Roode, which was bang average for NXT standards.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Incredible promo from Punk, he doesn’t need to say much to illicit pure theatre. The raw emotion, passion and energy, you just feel the blend in abundance, it’s like wrestling stands still when Punk’s on TV. Arguably the biggest star to debut in a major company from the past 15-20 years, certainly up there with the biggest names. It would appear he is still in a tweener type character which is interesting. I loved the main event it was so much fun, Punk didn’t need to do much to keep the match so hot but his stuff looked good, however I think AEW need to protect him, his body is not numb to bumps anymore, I do think a heel turn would help his ring work and longevity though as an in-ring performer; but when he can talk like that, I think Punk sometimes forgets how big he is, the guy doesn’t need to have epic wars every time. The digs at the elite were the stuff off legend, the commentary team was outstanding, JR was there despite having a bad black eye with his passion, the kevin kelly bloke played his part and Nigel was outstanding really, they added great value. There really is no one fit to lace Punk’s boots, he brings out nasha you can only comprehend by watching the magic he creates. Wrestling is back bayy bayyy!!

Thoughts guys?

Was outta town. Didnt see it. Will do soon. It's quite hard to keep up with wrestling now for me.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Even then getting in some sort of shape isn't bad. Walter was great in the ring before too. But now his slimmer look only adds to his presence. Eddie's body will benefit from that.

Walter is a proper wrestler. Kingston is more of a brawler. If there's anyone for whom this kind of look is actually the positive, its him.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

KENTA is not appealing for Punk if reports are true, and to be honest, not sure he is a good match up stylistically.

I think Okada, Tanahashi and Jay White are much better foils to Punk’s style

KENTA is also a p***k and a desperate attention-seeker. So I'd actually be happier if this match doesn't happen.

Punk vs. Jay White wouldn't be a bad match. In storyline you could use it to build Joe v Punk more too.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

For me personally, out of the current Japanese stars, only Okada, Nakamura and Tanahashi’s best compare to the peak of KENTA who had success in Asia and North America, which is rare. Unfortunately some of the fans who only saw his awful NXT run may not see this.

When you look at the last 20 years, I think Nakamura, KENTA and Morishima are the only names who have had credible sustained runs in the states. Man Bryan had amazing matches with everyone and their distinct styles come to think about it, ROH in their peak wasn’t limited to the same kind of matches between the same sort of styles on loop

KENTA's early matches in ROH with Joe and Bryan as well as the Three Way are great. Haven't seen as much of his NOAH work, which is where he really cut his teeth, but I think he is easily one of the standout Japanese stars of the 2000s post Misawa-Kobashi-Kawada, which wasn't exactly the greatest era for Japanese wrestling.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

For me personally, out of the current Japanese stars, only Okada, Nakamura and Tanahashi’s best compare to the peak of KENTA who had success in Asia and North America, which is rare. Unfortunately some of the fans who only saw his awful NXT run may not see this.

When you look at the last 20 years, I think Nakamura, KENTA and Morishima are the only names who have had credible sustained runs in the states. Man Bryan had amazing matches with everyone and their distinct styles come to think about it, ROH in their peak wasn’t limited to the same kind of matches between the same sort of styles on loop

Man what a shame Morishima's career was. The guy was an absolute beast and could have gone so far.

I agree on Nakamura. He was on a different level in Japan. His match against AJ at the Tokyo Dome is easily one of the greatest wrestling matches of the 21st century. He has been so awful ever since he got to WWE. Though I enjoyed his run in NXT.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] Just saw the bloodline segment from SD. Terrific stuff as usual.

All of them are just so good in their roles. Seems like the long term plan is to turn Roman face to save Usos some time around Mania maybe.

From who tho? The guy is like the biggest villain in wrestling since forever. I think when Roman's run end he will go away for a period of time and then come back as a babyface.

Loved the segment though. Roman v Jimmy v Jey at SummerSlam?

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Incredible promo from Punk, he doesn’t need to say much to illicit pure theatre. The raw emotion, passion and energy, you just feel the blend in abundance, it’s like wrestling stands still when Punk’s on TV. Arguably the biggest star to debut in a major company from the past 15-20 years, certainly up there with the biggest names. It would appear he is still in a tweener type character which is interesting. I loved the main event it was so much fun, Punk didn’t need to do much to keep the match so hot but his stuff looked good, however I think AEW need to protect him, his body is not numb to bumps anymore, I do think a heel turn would help his ring work and longevity though as an in-ring performer; but when he can talk like that, I think Punk sometimes forgets how big he is, the guy doesn’t need to have epic wars every time. The digs at the elite were the stuff off legend, the commentary team was outstanding, JR was there despite having a bad black eye with his passion, the kevin kelly bloke played his part and Nigel was outstanding really, they added great value. There really is no one fit to lace Punk’s boots, he brings out nasha you can only comprehend by watching the magic he creates. Wrestling is back bayy bayyy!!

Thoughts guys?

I mean it was incredible. It was unapologetic and true to who he is and wants to be presented as. Some of the lines popped me big time. Especially the counterfeit bucks one. It's a damn shame that they won't be working a program because this could have been something special.

I expected the promo to be freaking great, but more than anything I was surprised at what a different show this felt like. Kevin Kelly & Nigel McGuinnessess, who were both amazing on commentary. Kevin had some issues syncing with the breaks but his work as commentator was top-notch. It was so refreshing to hear two actual commentators instead of a mark in a mask screaming the names of obscure Japanese moves. Besides that, there were zero backstage segments where someone randomly gets killed. I wouldn't have put the title on Luchasaurus but other than that Andrade v Buddy was very good, as was Miro returning and winning that squash. And then ofcourse you had the main-event which was a proper freaking wrestling match.

Absolutely loved it and I really hope that this isn't just a one-off. And that this is consistently a proper wrestling show. Dynamite can be the car crash that satisfies the appetite of the other segment of fans.

 

[shaz619]

I mean it was incredible. It was unapologetic and true to who he is and wants to be presented as. Some of the lines popped me big time. Especially the counterfeit bucks one. It's a damn shame that they won't be working a program because this could have been something special.

I expected the promo to be freaking great, but more than anything I was surprised at what a different show this felt like. Kevin Kelly & Nigel McGuinnessess, who were both amazing on commentary. Kevin had some issues syncing with the breaks but his work as commentator was top-notch. It was so refreshing to hear two actual commentators instead of a mark in a mask screaming the names of obscure Japanese moves. Besides that, there were zero backstage segments where someone randomly gets killed. I wouldn't have put the title on Luchasaurus but other than that Andrade v Buddy was very good, as was Miro returning and winning that squash. And then ofcourse you had the main-event which was a proper freaking wrestling match.

Absolutely loved it and I really hope that this isn't just a one-off. And that this is consistently a proper wrestling show. Dynamite can be the car crash that satisfies the appetite of the other segment of fans.

Booker summed it up nicely, he hit all his bullet points. He could have gone all out but we both know why that wasn’t going to get signed off due to a certain group of soft women, actually it’s insulting calling them women. Even without that license, Punk’s a master and and he knows what to say, how and when, regardless of restrictions. Absolutely, the commentary really took me off guard and it felt like a professional wrestling show, I hope it’s sustained and we get to see Ricky Starks among others break into the main event scene, they have been wasted too long. How about that main event though? when was the last time you watched a 6 man tag in AEW where all the guys were serious performers and knew what they were doing, they all looked the part, displayed great awareness and understood the psychology behind flow, whole high spots and building heat, some nice false finishes there to, and didn’t over stay their welcome. You could tell FTR were enjoying themselves to for once. Collision is going to have some stiff competition as a Saturday show, their debut was fantastic in terms of the performances and ratings, think they matched Dynamite. I think on a Saturday, 500-600k will probably be the average (maybe a bit less?) and a solid return, anything above that will be fantastic.

Good ol Dave is being buried ruthlessly on Social Media I don’t know what he has said now? but we called his ** 10 months ago when events unfolded

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Booker summed it up nicely, he hit all his bullet points. He could have gone all out but we both know why that wasn’t going to get signed off due to a certain group of soft women, actually it’s insulting calling them women. Even without that license, Punk’s a master and and he knows what to say, how and when, regardless of restrictions. Absolutely, the commentary really took me off guard and it felt like a professional wrestling show, I hope it’s sustained and we get to see Ricky Starks among others break into the main event scene, they have been wasted too long. How about that main event though? when was the last time you watched a 6 man tag in AEW where all the guys were serious performers and knew what they were doing, they all looked the part, displayed great awareness and understood the psychology behind flow, whole high spots and building heat, some nice false finishes there to, and didn’t over stay their welcome. You could tell FTR were enjoying themselves to for once. Collision is going to have some stiff competition as a Saturday show, their debut was fantastic in terms of the performances and ratings, think they matched Dynamite. I think on a Saturday, 500-600k will probably be the average (maybe a bit less?) and a solid return, anything above that will be fantastic.

Good ol Dave is being buried ruthlessly on Social Media I don’t know what he has said now? but we called his ** 10 months ago when events unfolded

Even Tony had no alternative but to accept facts. Which is why he featured on Punk on Dynamite this week. Last week The Elite v BCC match dropped the bottom out of this show. They ended with 698,000 viewers after starting out with close to 900,000. That has to be some kind of record and just goes to speak to the lack of drawing ability of The Young Bucks and Moxley. Yes yu're right. Punk almost beat Dynamite. Collision's viewers were 16,000 less than Dynamite last week and it beat Dynamite in the key demo. Now 800,000 viewers will be hard to do in that timelsot but I think that the key demo will tell alot.

So far so good. I mean this week's line-up looks good too. What excites me most is the bracket for the Owen Hart Cup, which will take exclusively on Collision. Punk v Kojima facing the winner of Joe v Roderick Strong. And Starks v Juice Robinson facing the winner of Hobbs v Dustin. Even this week we got a great line-up with the Punk 8 man tag, Tanahashi v Strickland, Andrade v Brody King. It looks and feels like a wrestling show where there is continuity and everything is not moving at 100 miles per minute. To your question, I honestly dont even remember the last time a 6 man tag was this good and got this amount of time on TV.

That's the hope that this show can elevate Starks and Hobbs. But also guys like Andrade and Miro who are outstanding wrestlers but have never booked or featured the way they should have been. Hopefully, with time guys like Eddie Kingston can be featured on this show too. I know I haven't given Andrade his just due in recent times but seeing him wrestle Buddy last week remined me just how good he really is.

Btw, did you hear the latest rumor Meltzer floated. He said that an "AEW top guy (99% sure its Page) said that the AEW locker-room was a ticking time bomb after Punk returned to Dynamite last week" and that he thought that he only had to deal with Punk on PPVs...this coming just days after Punk cut a promo saying that "I know that the sheer magnitude of me makes some people uncomfortable."

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] Here's the bracket for the Owen Hart Tournament https://www.thesportster.com/aew-full-brackets-2023-owen-hart-tournaments/

I guess this is how we will be getting the long awaited rematch between Punk and Joe.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Even Tony had no alternative but to accept facts. Which is why he featured on Punk on Dynamite this week. Last week The Elite v BCC match dropped the bottom out of this show. They ended with 698,000 viewers after starting out with close to 900,000. That has to be some kind of record and just goes to speak to the lack of drawing ability of The Young Bucks and Moxley. Yes yu're right. Punk almost beat Dynamite. Collision's viewers were 16,000 less than Dynamite last week and it beat Dynamite in the key demo. Now 800,000 viewers will be hard to do in that timelsot but I think that the key demo will tell alot.

So far so good. I mean this week's line-up looks good too. What excites me most is the bracket for the Owen Hart Cup, which will take exclusively on Collision. Punk v Kojima facing the winner of Joe v Roderick Strong. And Starks v Juice Robinson facing the winner of Hobbs v Dustin. Even this week we got a great line-up with the Punk 8 man tag, Tanahashi v Strickland, Andrade v Brody King. It looks and feels like a wrestling show where there is continuity and everything is not moving at 100 miles per minute. To your question, I honestly dont even remember the last time a 6 man tag was this good and got this amount of time on TV.

That's the hope that this show can elevate Starks and Hobbs. But also guys like Andrade and Miro who are outstanding wrestlers but have never booked or featured the way they should have been. Hopefully, with time guys like Eddie Kingston can be featured on this show too. I know I haven't given Andrade his just due in recent times but seeing him wrestle Buddy last week remined me just how good he really is.

Btw, did you hear the latest rumor Meltzer floated. He said that an "AEW top guy (99% sure its Page) said that the AEW locker-room was a ticking time bomb after Punk returned to Dynamite last week" and that he thought that he only had to deal with Punk on PPVs...this coming just days after Punk cut a promo saying that "I know that the sheer magnitude of me makes some people uncomfortable."

Slight correction: Miro has been booked and featured like a beast. But ever since that awesome TNT title run ended, his booking too has fallen by the wayside.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

The Forbidden Door card looks pretty good. Its gonna be a hot show with a packed crowd. Toronto has always had a passionate wrestling fanbase. The big addition is Punk v Kojima, which could be good. Kojima, like Yugi Nagata is another guy whose name does not get enough credit because he was at the top during a time when people weren't giving too much of an f about Japanese wrestling. But even at 50+ he is solid in the ring. He had a really good match with Moxley just a couple of years back at All Out.

Also hearing that AEW has sold 66k tickets for All In, which is just insane considering that a single match hasn't even been announced. That show at Wembley will be truly something to behold and will likely have a very WrestleMania-esque feel.

But as great as this news is, I think AEW shouldn't lose sight of the fact that their business in the US is not exactly as good as it should be. Attendances at alot of shows have not been great. And while its encouraging that they have their biggest and possibly only real money-drawing star back, they are going to have to do a lot more to improve these low attendances and dwindling ratings.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

The Forbidden Door card looks pretty good. Its gonna be a hot show with a packed crowd. Toronto has always had a passionate wrestling fanbase. The big addition is Punk v Kojima, which could be good. Kojima, like Yugi Nagata is another guy whose name does not get enough credit because he was at the top during a time when people weren't giving too much of an f about Japanese wrestling. But even at 50+ he is solid in the ring. He had a really good match with Moxley just a couple of years back at All Out.

Also hearing that AEW has sold 66k tickets for All In, which is just insane considering that a single match hasn't even been announced. That show at Wembley will be truly something to behold and will likely have a very WrestleMania-esque feel.

But as great as this news is, I think AEW shouldn't lose sight of the fact that their business in the US is not exactly as good as it should be. Attendances at alot of shows have not been great. And while its encouraging that they have their biggest and possibly only real money-drawing star back, they are going to have to do a lot more to improve these low attendances and dwindling ratings.

I still have no idea why they aren't using Bryan as a draw and presenting him like a big deal rather than featuring him in a faction.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I still have no idea why they aren't using Bryan as a draw and presenting him like a big deal rather than featuring him in a faction.

Well the biggest reason is that Bryan wants to be in the group.

As much as I love Bryan, what differentiates him from Punk is that Bryan likes to indulge these guys and their bad ideas. Whereas, Punk tries to enforce his reality-based vision of wrestling on everything he is involved in. Bryan can have incredible matches with just about anyone he is his ring with because he's one of the greatest wrestlers ever. But the creative he has been involved in has mostly been rotten and uninteresting for quite some time now.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Booker summed it up nicely, he hit all his bullet points. He could have gone all out but we both know why that wasn’t going to get signed off due to a certain group of soft women, actually it’s insulting calling them women. Even without that license, Punk’s a master and and he knows what to say, how and when, regardless of restrictions. Absolutely, the commentary really took me off guard and it felt like a professional wrestling show, I hope it’s sustained and we get to see Ricky Starks among others break into the main event scene, they have been wasted too long. How about that main event though? when was the last time you watched a 6 man tag in AEW where all the guys were serious performers and knew what they were doing, they all looked the part, displayed great awareness and understood the psychology behind flow, whole high spots and building heat, some nice false finishes there to, and didn’t over stay their welcome. You could tell FTR were enjoying themselves to for once. Collision is going to have some stiff competition as a Saturday show, their debut was fantastic in terms of the performances and ratings, think they matched Dynamite. I think on a Saturday, 500-600k will probably be the average (maybe a bit less?) and a solid return, anything above that will be fantastic.

Good ol Dave is being buried ruthlessly on Social Media I don’t know what he has said now? but we called his ** 10 months ago when events unfolded

Btw the ratings breakdown is even more incredible. This show started with 868,000 and ended with 902,000 viewers. Which just goes to show you that the people wanted to see Punk.

Dynamite started with 900,000 something and ended with 698,000.

On top of that, Collision had 142,000 more people in the key demo watching the main event.

Also, pretty funny how there was a six man tag in the main event of both episodes. But while one show drew viewers consistently, the other dropped the bottom out of the show.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Well the biggest reason is that Bryan wants to be in the group.

As much as I love Bryan, what differentiates him from Punk is that Bryan likes to indulge these guys and their bad ideas. Whereas, Punk tries to enforce his reality-based vision of wrestling on everything he is involved in. Bryan can have incredible matches with just about anyone he is his ring with because he's one of the greatest wrestlers ever. But the creative he has been involved in has mostly been rotten and uninteresting for quite some time now.

Maybe he is too nice to say no to the bad creative just like he would do any feud in WWE apart from not going to Saudi events. Another thing is Bryan doesn't have the leadership to say let me the guy here, let me show you how it is done.

If AEW was a fair place, he should have been the one to take the title off MJF and instead they put him as MJFs first feud.

 

[shaz619]

Even Tony had no alternative but to accept facts. Which is why he featured on Punk on Dynamite this week. Last week The Elite v BCC match dropped the bottom out of this show. They ended with 698,000 viewers after starting out with close to 900,000. That has to be some kind of record and just goes to speak to the lack of drawing ability of The Young Bucks and Moxley. Yes yu're right. Punk almost beat Dynamite. Collision's viewers were 16,000 less than Dynamite last week and it beat Dynamite in the key demo. Now 800,000 viewers will be hard to do in that timelsot but I think that the key demo will tell alot.

So far so good. I mean this week's line-up looks good too. What excites me most is the bracket for the Owen Hart Cup, which will take exclusively on Collision. Punk v Kojima facing the winner of Joe v Roderick Strong. And Starks v Juice Robinson facing the winner of Hobbs v Dustin. Even this week we got a great line-up with the Punk 8 man tag, Tanahashi v Strickland, Andrade v Brody King. It looks and feels like a wrestling show where there is continuity and everything is not moving at 100 miles per minute. To your question, I honestly dont even remember the last time a 6 man tag was this good and got this amount of time on TV.

That's the hope that this show can elevate Starks and Hobbs. But also guys like Andrade and Miro who are outstanding wrestlers but have never booked or featured the way they should have been. Hopefully, with time guys like Eddie Kingston can be featured on this show too. I know I haven't given Andrade his just due in recent times but seeing him wrestle Buddy last week remined me just how good he really is.

Btw, did you hear the latest rumor Meltzer floated. He said that an "AEW top guy (99% sure its Page) said that the AEW locker-room was a ticking time bomb after Punk returned to Dynamite last week" and that he thought that he only had to deal with Punk on PPVs...this coming just days after Punk cut a promo saying that "I know that the sheer magnitude of me makes some people uncomfortable."

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] Here's the bracket for the Owen Hart Tournament https://www.thesportster.com/aew-full-brackets-2023-owen-hart-tournaments/

I guess this is how we will be getting the long awaited rematch between Punk and Joe.

Slight correction: Miro has been booked and featured like a beast. But ever since that awesome TNT title run ended, his booking too has fallen by the wayside.

Btw the ratings breakdown is even more incredible. This show started with 868,000 and ended with 902,000 viewers. Which just goes to show you that the people wanted to see Punk.

Dynamite started with 900,000 something and ended with 698,000.

On top of that, Collision had 142,000 more people in the key demo watching the main event.

Also, pretty funny how there was a six man tag in the main event of both episodes. But while one show drew viewers consistently, the other dropped the bottom out of the show.

Thankfully TK’s ********* for the one wrestler where it matters, is leading to something. I will give him credit for it to when it would have easier to listen to the softer guys. Man that’s a huge drop, who wants to see those guys in that situation? The bracket looks seriously good, my only concern is for Punk’s longevity, I don’t know if he should be working with Jap guys outside Tanahashi and Okada, especially in his first match, I think Juice is signed to AEW right? he would have been the perfect first opponent. Andrade one of the few wrestlers I like to see even cold, he should feel more at home on a structured show, I like his veiled shots on social media though Miro started out how then I don’t know what happened after, look forward to see what happens with him, so much talent with potential on the roster. Who is Hobbs facing in the bracket?

Meltzer is off his head now, most people are starting to see through his so called raslin journalism. But that does sound like something Page would way, what a parasite that guy is, seriously.

Excited for a potential Joe v Punk match, the build should be great, especially if they use past archive footage, I can’t believe it has been so long since their iconic rivalry.

Those numbers are hugely impressive!! it wont be sustained but if they can average around 550-650 with the occasional bump it would be great and as you said the key demo will be interesting. And those numbers line up with my viewing of the episode, I was on a holiday, so don’t really watch anything but had to see Punk, went out my way to watch the opening promo and then the main event only lol going to check out the rest later on YT. But just an example of what a big draw Punk is, as Mark Henry said recently, greatness is greatness

 

[shaz619]

I still have no idea why they aren't using Bryan as a draw and presenting him like a big deal rather than featuring him in a faction.

Well the biggest reason is that Bryan wants to be in the group.

As much as I love Bryan, what differentiates him from Punk is that Bryan likes to indulge these guys and their bad ideas. Whereas, Punk tries to enforce his reality-based vision of wrestling on everything he is involved in. Bryan can have incredible matches with just about anyone he is his ring with because he's one of the greatest wrestlers ever. But the creative he has been involved in has mostly been rotten and uninteresting for quite some time now.

Maybe he is too nice to say no to the bad creative just like he would do any feud in WWE apart from not going to Saudi events. Another thing is Bryan doesn't have the leadership to say let me the guy here, let me show you how it is done.

If AEW was a fair place, he should have been the one to take the title off MJF and instead they put him as MJFs first feud.

Bryan is a nice guy but remember after he broke into the main event scene with the WWE and post injury, specifically on Smackdown; he unofficially became a leading member of the creative team, Vince trusted him that much after he got over and made him money. Bryan has a great mind for the business and he succeeded in almost every role.

Maybe he is at a point now where he just can’t be bothered as much and just wants to enjoy his wrestling for better or worse without having to worry about anything else? he would most certainly be a better fit on Collision

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] [MENTION=141227]BunnyRabbit[/MENTION] any other wrestling discussion platform you guys use? I’ve found them mostly toxic in the past and the same with Boxing, don’t know if they are any better now with fans of the cucamonga kids

 

[shaz619]

Wow wow wow, what another excellent presentation of pro wrestling 101! I mainly watched the main event and roughly the other segments but I just love the structure and cohesiveness.

Mixed response for Punk and man what a showman! he thrives under such hostility and was made for this! I loved how he adapted his work and mannerisms to account for the reaction rather than blindly follow the script. But what a tremendous atmosphere.

The reaction reminds me of this:

You, like the Red Sox, like Boston, are no longer the underdog! You're a dynasty! You are what you hate! You have become the New York Yankees!

Life has truly come full circle for CM Punk, he is now the New York Yankees!!

As for FB, the only matches I want to see involve Punk and Bryan.

Also, lovely debut of Naito on Collision, that’s how you book a big foreign player! he didn’t appear to be some bum of the street and less is more, he wasn’t on screen long but his presence was felt and am also hyped for that 6 man tag

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Maybe he is too nice to say no to the bad creative just like he would do any feud in WWE apart from not going to Saudi events. Another thing is Bryan doesn't have the leadership to say let me the guy here, let me show you how it is done.

If AEW was a fair place, he should have been the one to take the title off MJF and instead they put him as MJFs first feud.

I dunno I think he does teaches the young kids stuff. His problem is that he wants to work their style too. Because I guess he enjoys their style of modern wrestling too. On top of that, he has been involved in the creative as well along with Tony.

I think he is someone who can come up with good idea--- as shaz pointed to during his post-comeback WWE run. But he is just as prone to bad ones like this Elite/BCC feud.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] [MENTION=141227]BunnyRabbit[/MENTION] any other wrestling discussion platform you guys use? I’ve found them mostly toxic in the past and the same with Boxing, don’t know if they are any better now with fans of the cucamonga kids

We can make a reddit section for us pp wrestling fans maybe?

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Thankfully TK’s ********* for the one wrestler where it matters, is leading to something. I will give him credit for it to when it would have easier to listen to the softer guys. Man that’s a huge drop, who wants to see those guys in that situation? The bracket looks seriously good, my only concern is for Punk’s longevity, I don’t know if he should be working with Jap guys outside Tanahashi and Okada, especially in his first match, I think Juice is signed to AEW right? he would have been the perfect first opponent. Andrade one of the few wrestlers I like to see even cold, he should feel more at home on a structured show, I like his veiled shots on social media though Miro started out how then I don’t know what happened after, look forward to see what happens with him, so much talent with potential on the roster. Who is Hobbs facing in the bracket?

Meltzer is off his head now, most people are starting to see through his so called raslin journalism. But that does sound like something Page would way, what a parasite that guy is, seriously.

Excited for a potential Joe v Punk match, the build should be great, especially if they use past archive footage, I can’t believe it has been so long since their iconic rivalry.

Those numbers are hugely impressive!! it wont be sustained but if they can average around 550-650 with the occasional bump it would be great and as you said the key demo will be interesting. And those numbers line up with my viewing of the episode, I was on a holiday, so don’t really watch anything but had to see Punk, went out my way to watch the opening promo and then the main event only lol going to check out the rest later on YT. But just an example of what a big draw Punk is, as Mark Henry said recently, greatness is greatness

To be fair to Tony, he always recognized that Punk was his biggest cash cow. We've seen him blurt out Punk stats numerous times in previous press scrums. When he came up with the idea of AEW, the first guy that he wanted was Punk. His problem is that he seems to be someone who tries his best to avoid confrontation and keep everyone happy. But the simple reality is that you can't do that. Especially when you are the booker and promoter of a major wrestling promotion. Why was Adam Page never punished for his remarkable lack of professionalism? Why was the Colt Cabana gossip not squashed when it was making the rounds on the internet? Why was Moxley allowed to say that I won't job to Punk unless I don't get a win? Tony desperately needs to grow a pair of balls or we will continue seeing stuff like what happened at All Out.

I think they wanted to do KENTA v Punk. But KENTA being the childish p***k that he is forced AEW to book this match. I see your point though. I would rather have Punk working with younger guys. They can make an exception for Punk v Jericho, just because that will be a hot feud. But I think more often that not I would rather see him against younger guys.

Yup Juice is signed to AEW. Hobbs is facing Dustin Rhodes, which is a great match-up for Hobbs imo.

The funny thing about Meltzer and Alvarez is that they are just waiting to bury Punk in their trademark thinly veiled manner, even when nothing has happened. The best example is the ESPN article, which they predicted would bury the entire company. Btw, have you read that article? I think it very interesting especially in the way that it allows Punk to explain the issues he had with Page being a totally unprofessional p***k.

Can't wait for Punk v Joe. Think its just going to be a one-off but I would love to see atleast one big promo battle between these two.

I think we will get a better idea of the ratings pattern after a couple of weeks. But I think how they do will be heavily dependent on the competition they are facing that week. Because Saturday Night in that 8 PM ET timeslot is where they are going to face competition from sports as well as UFC on numerous weeks. So let's see what happens there. Personally, I think they can hit 700,000 if the show is compelling. But let's see what happens.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Bryan is a nice guy but remember after he broke into the main event scene with the WWE and post injury, specifically on Smackdown; he unofficially became a leading member of the creative team, Vince trusted him that much after he got over and made him money. Bryan has a great mind for the business and he succeeded in almost every role.

Maybe he is at a point now where he just can’t be bothered as much and just wants to enjoy his wrestling for better or worse without having to worry about anything else? he would most certainly be a better fit on Collision

I think he just wants to enjoy wrestling and have fun with his friends. And that's okay. That's where he is in his career. At the end of the day, he's still Bryan freaking Danielson and he can even have a great match with a broomstick at the drop of a hat. But he would most definitely be a better fit on Collision if he was allowed to be a *****ish heel on his own like he was in that Adam Page feud.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

[MENTION=147292]RedwoodOriginal[/MENTION] [MENTION=141227]BunnyRabbit[/MENTION] any other wrestling discussion platform you guys use? I’ve found them mostly toxic in the past and the same with Boxing, don’t know if they are any better now with fans of the cucamonga kids

Reddit SquaredCircle is simply unbearable. Its populated by AEW marks. I would love to stay in touch with you guys tho after PP closes. Open to any suggestions.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I dunno I think he does teaches the young kids stuff. His problem is that he wants to work their style too. Because I guess he enjoys their style of modern wrestling too. On top of that, he has been involved in the creative as well along with Tony.

I think he is someone who can come up with good idea--- as shaz pointed to during his post-comeback WWE run. But he is just as prone to bad ones like this Elite/BCC feud.

Yes probs.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Reddit SquaredCircle is simply unbearable. Its populated by AEW marks. I would love to stay in touch with you guys tho after PP closes. Open to any suggestions.

yup definitely.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Wow wow wow, what another excellent presentation of pro wrestling 101! I mainly watched the main event and roughly the other segments but I just love the structure and cohesiveness.

Mixed response for Punk and man what a showman! he thrives under such hostility and was made for this! I loved how he adapted his work and mannerisms to account for the reaction rather than blindly follow the script. But what a tremendous atmosphere.

The reaction reminds me of this:

You, like the Red Sox, like Boston, are no longer the underdog! You're a dynasty! You are what you hate! You have become the New York Yankees!

Life has truly come full circle for CM Punk, he is now the New York Yankees!!

As for FB, the only matches I want to see involve Punk and Bryan.

Also, lovely debut of Naito on Collision, that’s how you book a big foreign player! he didn’t appear to be some bum of the street and less is more, he wasn’t on screen long but his presence was felt and am also hyped for that 6 man tag

Just started watching so will be getting back soon with my thoughts but I agree on the Naito bit. He came off as a massive star in this segment eventhough he didn't come out that differently from the other New Japan wrestlers that come out on this show. I think the difference was that they built it up a little bit on Dynamite too. And Naito has that aura and personality that makes him standout. Okada has it too. But Tanahashi came off as a major bum on Dynamite and the when he came out for his match against Swerve. Tanahashi is someone I've never really gotten. Barring the match he had with Omega and one against Suzuki back in 2012 or 13, I've never really loved any match of his. And his work does not impress me much.

Also bit of a tangent here but did you hear SANADA's comments about Jungle Boy to the Japanese press? He went, 'I had never even heard of Jungle Boy before this match. Is that really that easy to get an Open Challenge?....This is the IWGP, it means more than the AEW World Championship, it should be getting better competitors'

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Just started watching so will be getting back soon with my thoughts but I agree on the Naito bit. He came off as a massive star in this segment eventhough he didn't come out that differently from the other New Japan wrestlers that come out on this show. I think the difference was that they built it up a little bit on Dynamite too. And Naito has that aura and personality that makes him standout. Okada has it too. But Tanahashi came off as a major bum on Dynamite and the when he came out for his match against Swerve. Tanahashi is someone I've never really gotten. Barring the match he had with Omega and one against Suzuki back in 2012 or 13, I've never really loved any match of his. And his work does not impress me much.

Also bit of a tangent here but did you hear SANADA's comments about Jungle Boy to the Japanese press? He went, 'I had never even heard of Jungle Boy before this match. Is that really that easy to get an Open Challenge?....This is the IWGP, it means more than the AEW World Championship, it should be getting better competitors'

Tanahashi v Nakamura at the G1 some years ago was amazing too.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Was going down a rabbit hole of LA Knight promos and found this video of him explaining his vision of wrestling and its amazing how much it aligns with the vision of guys like Cornette, Punk, MJF and moi. And it shows in his work too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79tBqIRYHqI

 

[shaz619]

Just started watching so will be getting back soon with my thoughts but I agree on the Naito bit. He came off as a massive star in this segment eventhough he didn't come out that differently from the other New Japan wrestlers that come out on this show. I think the difference was that they built it up a little bit on Dynamite too. And Naito has that aura and personality that makes him standout. Okada has it too. But Tanahashi came off as a major bum on Dynamite and the when he came out for his match against Swerve. Tanahashi is someone I've never really gotten. Barring the match he had with Omega and one against Suzuki back in 2012 or 13, I've never really loved any match of his. And his work does not impress me much.

Also bit of a tangent here but did you hear SANADA's comments about Jungle Boy to the Japanese press? He went, 'I had never even heard of Jungle Boy before this match. Is that really that easy to get an Open Challenge?....This is the IWGP, it means more than the AEW World Championship, it should be getting better competitors'

AEW deserve that humiliation, what were they thinking? you couldn’t find a worse challenger for such an iconic championship, even though I am not familiar with Sanada or his work, which is sort of ironic that he is working with another nobody but I respect the championship and Jungle Boy isn’t a worthy contender

 

[shaz619]

To be fair to Tony, he always recognized that Punk was his biggest cash cow. We've seen him blurt out Punk stats numerous times in previous press scrums. When he came up with the idea of AEW, the first guy that he wanted was Punk. His problem is that he seems to be someone who tries his best to avoid confrontation and keep everyone happy. But the simple reality is that you can't do that. Especially when you are the booker and promoter of a major wrestling promotion. Why was Adam Page never punished for his remarkable lack of professionalism? Why was the Colt Cabana gossip not squashed when it was making the rounds on the internet? Why was Moxley allowed to say that I won't job to Punk unless I don't get a win? Tony desperately needs to grow a pair of balls or we will continue seeing stuff like what happened at All Out.

I think they wanted to do KENTA v Punk. But KENTA being the childish p***k that he is forced AEW to book this match. I see your point though. I would rather have Punk working with younger guys. They can make an exception for Punk v Jericho, just because that will be a hot feud. But I think more often that not I would rather see him against younger guys.

Yup Juice is signed to AEW. Hobbs is facing Dustin Rhodes, which is a great match-up for Hobbs imo.

The funny thing about Meltzer and Alvarez is that they are just waiting to bury Punk in their trademark thinly veiled manner, even when nothing has happened. The best example is the ESPN article, which they predicted would bury the entire company. Btw, have you read that article? I think it very interesting especially in the way that it allows Punk to explain the issues he had with Page being a totally unprofessional p***k.

Can't wait for Punk v Joe. Think its just going to be a one-off but I would love to see atleast one big promo battle between these two.

I think we will get a better idea of the ratings pattern after a couple of weeks. But I think how they do will be heavily dependent on the competition they are facing that week. Because Saturday Night in that 8 PM ET timeslot is where they are going to face competition from sports as well as UFC on numerous weeks. So let's see what happens there. Personally, I think they can hit 700,000 if the show is compelling. But let's see what happens.

I read that article did those village idiots really think it buries the entire company, more like upset their friends were exposed. I think Punk highlighted that stiff chop among other issues and the build up to the heat, they provoked him without any real cause and Khan failed to get the situation under control

 

[shaz619]

Was going down a rabbit hole of LA Knight promos and found this video of him explaining his vision of wrestling and its amazing how much it aligns with the vision of guys like Cornette, Punk, MJF and moi. And it shows in his work too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79tBqIRYHqI

Ah delighted for him, and Starks, that NWA class was special, with everything stripped back they really showcased their talent at its best. I hope Starks comes good now but LA Knight has been going from strength to strength despite some bad booking, the audience is receptive to his skill levels, reminds me a bit of Bray and how he has been dealt with but the fans still resonate with the skill

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Just started watching so will be getting back soon with my thoughts but I agree on the Naito bit. He came off as a massive star in this segment eventhough he didn't come out that differently from the other New Japan wrestlers that come out on this show. I think the difference was that they built it up a little bit on Dynamite too. And Naito has that aura and personality that makes him standout. Okada has it too. But Tanahashi came off as a major bum on Dynamite and the when he came out for his match against Swerve. Tanahashi is someone I've never really gotten. Barring the match he had with Omega and one against Suzuki back in 2012 or 13, I've never really loved any match of his. And his work does not impress me much.

Also bit of a tangent here but did you hear SANADA's comments about Jungle Boy to the Japanese press? He went, 'I had never even heard of Jungle Boy before this match. Is that really that easy to get an Open Challenge?....This is the IWGP, it means more than the AEW World Championship, it should be getting better competitors'

Tanahashi has a great look but apart from that I've never really understood why he's considered to be one of the best. Even his frog splash isn't amongst the best. Eddie and RVD did it much much better.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Tanahashi v Nakamura at the G1 some years ago was amazing too.

Okada, Naito, Liger, Muta, Hayabusa, Suzuki, Kobashi and offcourse Inoki are some of the guys that are/were really standouts

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Just caught a glimpse of Forbidden Door. Ospreay vs Omega has gone to stupidity level now. Almost around 1 hour and filled with near falls every 2 mins.

 

[Aman]

Another all time great level match. It was beautiful.

Can't remember the last time I popped that hard when Omega kicked out at 1.

Ospreay has come a long way and as an AJ fan I think he's surpassed him. His run in NJPW has been legendary and his match catalog speaks for itself. Congrats [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] for having a wrestler the caliber of Will Ospreay representing your country. Should definitely check out All In at Wembly, pretty sure we'll get the third match and you know those two wont let the fans down.

 

[Aman]

Tanahashi has a great look but apart from that I've never really understood why he's considered to be one of the best. Even his frog splash isn't amongst the best. Eddie and RVD did it much much better.

Check out Tanahashi vs Ibushi 2018 G1 Final

 

[Nikhil_cric]

He would have but to be fair to Hunter, he is the one who took control of that storyline and milked it for over a year. The writers wanted to do a pay-off immediately after the crowd started reacting to the teases of Batista potentially turning on H. And when you look at that entire storyline, it was perfectly executed from start to finish and made Batista a massive star.

Batista's age is probably a big factor in him not staying a top guy for as long. Because WrestleMania 21 was basically his coronation. And even till 2007, he was viewed as just a notch below Cena. But somewhere in between they went all in on Cena and he started getting disillusioned with the company and more interested in pursuing an acting career.

Jericho should have been on SmackDown. I think he would have been utilized better. RAW being the Triple H Show was basically the worst kept secret in WWE. And funny thing is that Heyman wanted him in 2002 when the brand split came into effect but had to compromise to keep Edge and Eddie, I think.

It was an okay run. Once he got done feuding with with Hunter and Shawn, there wasn't any feud that was particularly memorable. I think he feuded with Kane and then lost the belt to Orton. He got to beat H more than once which was something I guess.

Batista had way too many injuries because of his age and extreme steroid usage and he was never a great worker anyway. When he lost muscle mass and the ability to do extreme feats of strength, there was little they could do with him.

If you guys are interested, you should listen to Jericho on the Kurt Angle show. It is a very candid conversation. And Jericho talks about how he got the title initially only because HHH was injured. He clearly says that Vince was not high on him and whatever chances he was supposed to get were quashed because Hunter tried to bury him and he also alludes indirectly to Kurt having similar issues.

If you've also read Meltzer from that time, it is painfully obvious that Rock and Austin did NOT want HHH and his buddies to get their spots. They wanted to put over guys like Benoit and Jericho and Angle. But Vince only really pushed Angle (he usually pushes highly competent amateur wrestlers regardless of what Kliq thinks of them) .

The Rock was putting Jericho over in every interview he gave at the time and Austin wanted to work with Benoit more than anyone else . The lines drawn became even sharper when HHH was pushing for the NWO but Austin, Rock and the others were completely against it.


Once the brand extension happened, it was an absolute blessing for the guys who went to Smackdown but the ones on Raw got screwed over - Jericho, RVD, Booker. The SD guys were getting over well - Eddie, Rey, Edge, Benoit

Heck im pretty sure Hunter did not want to put even Lesnar over and they conveniently made Lesnar and the WWE title exclusive to SD and Hunter was simply handed the new World title. Whereas Angle, Show and Taker were really making Lesnar on SD.

Austin's injuries/walkout and The Rock's transition to Hollywood came at the worst possible time when some of these guys were just about to take it to the next level.

For the next 3 years, Raw was pretty much the HHH show.

 

[shaz619]

Batista had way too many injuries because of his age and extreme steroid usage and he was never a great worker anyway. When he lost muscle mass and the ability to do extreme feats of strength, there was little they could do with him.

If you guys are interested, you should listen to Jericho on the Kurt Angle show. It is a very candid conversation. And Jericho talks about how he got the title initially only because HHH was injured. He clearly says that Vince was not high on him and whatever chances he was supposed to get were quashed because Hunter tried to bury him and he also alludes indirectly to Kurt having similar issues.

If you've also read Meltzer from that time, it is painfully obvious that Rock and Austin did NOT want HHH and his buddies to get their spots. They wanted to put over guys like Benoit and Jericho and Angle. But Vince only really pushed Angle (he usually pushes highly competent amateur wrestlers regardless of what Kliq thinks of them) .

The Rock was putting Jericho over in every interview he gave at the time and Austin wanted to work with Benoit more than anyone else . The lines drawn became even sharper when HHH was pushing for the NWO but Austin, Rock and the others were completely against it.


Once the brand extension happened, it was an absolute blessing for the guys who went to Smackdown but the ones on Raw got screwed over - Jericho, RVD, Booker. The SD guys were getting over well - Eddie, Rey, Edge, Benoit

Heck im pretty sure Hunter did not want to put even Lesnar over and they conveniently made Lesnar and the WWE title exclusive to SD and Hunter was simply handed the new World title. Whereas Angle, Show and Taker were really making Lesnar on SD.

Austin's injuries/walkout and The Rock's transition to Hollywood came at the worst possible time when some of these guys were just about to take it to the next level.

For the next 3 years, Raw was pretty much the HHH show.

This theory has weight also considering how the WWE title was treated as secondary to the WHC which was simply handed to HHH, on the big PPV’s not exclusive to RAW or SD, I can’t think of a time where the WWE title defence, was higher up the card compared to the WHC.

The Rock and Austin bowing out in contrast was perfect timing for the shovel.

Batista did have some injury woes but I barely recall them, the issues persisted towards the end but on the whole his run was outstanding and his work in and out the ring is stereotyped due to his size, with the right opponent he was motivated. If you gave him something not in line with his vision for pro wrestling (PG restrictions) or Umaga (no disrespect) after a world title defence a year earlier at mania, I don’t think the right results were going to come even though the styles don’t really mesh there.

 

[shaz619]

Just caught a glimpse of Forbidden Door. Ospreay vs Omega has gone to stupidity level now. Almost around 1 hour and filled with near falls every 2 mins.

That match is not even on my list to watch, both guys are a disgrace to pro wrestling. They don’t belong on PPV. Their matches are over hyped by Meltzer who has been exposed now and a very niche group of hipster smarks. Ospreay is a poor mans Ricochet and he along with Zack Sabre Jnr are not even in the top 5 best in the UK

 

[Nikhil_cric]

This theory has weight also considering how the WWE title was treated as secondary to the WHC which was simply handed to HHH, on the big PPV’s not exclusive to RAW or SD, I can’t think of a time where the WWE title defence, was higher up the card compared to the WHC.

The Rock and Austin bowing out in contrast was perfect timing for the shovel.

Batista did have some injury woes but I barely recall them, the issues persisted towards the end but on the whole his run was outstanding and his work in and out the ring is stereotyped due to his size, with the right opponent he was motivated. If you gave him something not in line with his vision for pro wrestling (PG restrictions) or Umaga (no disrespect) after a world title defence a year earlier at mania, I don’t think the right results were going to come even though the styles don’t really mesh there.

Initially it wasn't. Until Judgement Day 2003, the WWE championship was the main event more than the World title. But after they started brand exclusive PPV's, even the big 4 PPV's started featuring the World title more prominently than the WWE title until 2005 when the titles switched brands.

 

[shaz619]

Initially it wasn't. Until Judgement Day 2003, the WWE championship was the main event more than the World title. But after they started brand exclusive PPV's, even the big 4 PPV's started featuring the World title more prominently than the WWE title until 2005 when the titles switched brands.

I can’t recall HHH ever being relegated to a lower spot on the card as champion? 05 onwards the title returned to the top mainly driven by the Cena project, Vince could not ignore $$$ over the son-in-law

But despite the WWE title playing second fiddle at that time, it was largely minimised due to Heyman’s shrewd booking and engaging feuds involving the likes of Eddie, Kurt and Lesnar among others

Imagine the fate of Jericho and RVD if they were on Smackdown

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

AEW deserve that humiliation, what were they thinking? you couldn’t find a worse challenger for such an iconic championship, even though I am not familiar with Sanada or his work, which is sort of ironic that he is working with another nobody but I respect the championship and Jungle Boy isn’t a worthy contender

Me neither. Haven't seen any of his matches but this is a hilarious burn from him. Basically a b*tch slap to the face of Jungle Boy and AEW.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Batista had way too many injuries because of his age and extreme steroid usage and he was never a great worker anyway. When he lost muscle mass and the ability to do extreme feats of strength, there was little they could do with him.

If you guys are interested, you should listen to Jericho on the Kurt Angle show. It is a very candid conversation. And Jericho talks about how he got the title initially only because HHH was injured. He clearly says that Vince was not high on him and whatever chances he was supposed to get were quashed because Hunter tried to bury him and he also alludes indirectly to Kurt having similar issues.

If you've also read Meltzer from that time, it is painfully obvious that Rock and Austin did NOT want HHH and his buddies to get their spots. They wanted to put over guys like Benoit and Jericho and Angle. But Vince only really pushed Angle (he usually pushes highly competent amateur wrestlers regardless of what Kliq thinks of them) .

The Rock was putting Jericho over in every interview he gave at the time and Austin wanted to work with Benoit more than anyone else . The lines drawn became even sharper when HHH was pushing for the NWO but Austin, Rock and the others were completely against it.


Once the brand extension happened, it was an absolute blessing for the guys who went to Smackdown but the ones on Raw got screwed over - Jericho, RVD, Booker. The SD guys were getting over well - Eddie, Rey, Edge, Benoit

Heck im pretty sure Hunter did not want to put even Lesnar over and they conveniently made Lesnar and the WWE title exclusive to SD and Hunter was simply handed the new World title. Whereas Angle, Show and Taker were really making Lesnar on SD.

Austin's injuries/walkout and The Rock's transition to Hollywood came at the worst possible time when some of these guys were just about to take it to the next level.

For the next 3 years, Raw was pretty much the HHH show.

Batista's biggest drawback was that he got into the business too late. I think he is maybe the year younger or as old as HHH. But that doesn't take away from the fact that he got the wrestling business, loved it and excelled at it. He may not have been a great worker, but his in-ring ability was fairly good for someone of his size and lack of experience. He was definitely a far better babyface than Cena, whom people started getting sick of Cena as early as 2006. And he was an incredible heel too. If he had time on his side and if WWE hadn't run him off with their PG product and by not allowing him to star in their low-rent direct to DVD movies, maybe he could have had an even better and more successful career.

Oh god. Don't even remind me of that. When they put the Big Show, Booker T and Shawn Michaels into the nWo. But even before that the Hall-Nash-Hogan reunion was a complete flop as well. The only purpose it served was Vince milking one more nostalgia run out of Hogan.

And I agree with just about everything you said about H. None of what you say surprises me because that's exactly what I have heard for the most part from other sources.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I can’t recall HHH ever being relegated to a lower spot on the card as champion? 05 onwards the title returned to the top mainly driven by the Cena project, Vince could not ignore $$$ over the son-in-law

But despite the WWE title playing second fiddle at that time, it was largely minimised due to Heyman’s shrewd booking and engaging feuds involving the likes of Eddie, Kurt and Lesnar among others

Imagine the fate of Jericho and RVD if they were on Smackdown

Both would have been World Champions. RVD was white hot in 2002. He was quite possibly the most over guy on the roster...nobody was getting reactions like those. And the most they did with him was make him IC champion. Jericho may not have been the most over, but he was always trying his best to stand-out with his creativity, sense of humor and in-ring ability. For me his feuds with Shawn, Goldberg and Christian really stand out during this time period. But after a certain period of time, I think he just got sick of being in the same spot on the Triple H show for what was 3 years at that point. And you can't really blame him.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Wow wow wow, what another excellent presentation of pro wrestling 101! I mainly watched the main event and roughly the other segments but I just love the structure and cohesiveness.

Mixed response for Punk and man what a showman! he thrives under such hostility and was made for this! I loved how he adapted his work and mannerisms to account for the reaction rather than blindly follow the script. But what a tremendous atmosphere.

The reaction reminds me of this:

You, like the Red Sox, like Boston, are no longer the underdog! You're a dynasty! You are what you hate! You have become the New York Yankees!

Life has truly come full circle for CM Punk, he is now the New York Yankees!!

As for FB, the only matches I want to see involve Punk and Bryan.

Also, lovely debut of Naito on Collision, that’s how you book a big foreign player! he didn’t appear to be some bum of the street and less is more, he wasn’t on screen long but his presence was felt and am also hyped for that 6 man tag

Caught Collision last night and man oh man, what a freakin' match. The wrestling was good but everything was accentuated by the divisive reaction that Punk got in this match. It was pretty remarkable how split in the middle the crowd was. You could hear it in the chants. And Punk leaned into it so perfectly. I LOVED the Hogan nods. Especially when he did the big boot and hit the leg drop. What a legend, this guy. His instincts and understanding of pro-wrestling is light years ahead of most people currently in this business.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Check out Tanahashi vs Ibushi 2018 G1 Final

Watched it in 2018. And Ibushi looked much better in the match.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Batista had way too many injuries because of his age and extreme steroid usage and he was never a great worker anyway. When he lost muscle mass and the ability to do extreme feats of strength, there was little they could do with him.

If you guys are interested, you should listen to Jericho on the Kurt Angle show. It is a very candid conversation. And Jericho talks about how he got the title initially only because HHH was injured. He clearly says that Vince was not high on him and whatever chances he was supposed to get were quashed because Hunter tried to bury him and he also alludes indirectly to Kurt having similar issues.

If you've also read Meltzer from that time, it is painfully obvious that Rock and Austin did NOT want HHH and his buddies to get their spots. They wanted to put over guys like Benoit and Jericho and Angle. But Vince only really pushed Angle (he usually pushes highly competent amateur wrestlers regardless of what Kliq thinks of them) .

The Rock was putting Jericho over in every interview he gave at the time and Austin wanted to work with Benoit more than anyone else . The lines drawn became even sharper when HHH was pushing for the NWO but Austin, Rock and the others were completely against it.


Once the brand extension happened, it was an absolute blessing for the guys who went to Smackdown but the ones on Raw got screwed over - Jericho, RVD, Booker. The SD guys were getting over well - Eddie, Rey, Edge, Benoit

Heck im pretty sure Hunter did not want to put even Lesnar over and they conveniently made Lesnar and the WWE title exclusive to SD and Hunter was simply handed the new World title. Whereas Angle, Show and Taker were really making Lesnar on SD.

Austin's injuries/walkout and The Rock's transition to Hollywood came at the worst possible time when some of these guys were just about to take it to the next level.

For the next 3 years, Raw was pretty much the HHH show.

Yes The Kliq were awful people during that time period. Rock and Austin definitely didn't like Trips. Austin even refused to lose to Trips which is why Mankind's one day reign was done. Trips and Shawn made Dwayne's life hell in his early days. Mark Henry said they once put real dog poop in Dwayne's lunch.

But tbh Booker was never really the top guy material nor was Steiner. Jericho was definitely screwed over. But Angle was one level ahead of Jericho in every aspect except gimmicks. Jericho still hasn't let go off his grudge against Trips and neither has Trips. The two definitely hate each other.

Think Edge was on Raw. He feuded with Randy for IC title and Evolution. He was being marked for big push since late 90s.

Dwayne and Austin were the only two guys who could over rule Kliq's politics. Taker was moved to SD i think and he put over Lesnar in the best series of matches IMO during Lesnar's title run. He put JBL over later too.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I can’t recall HHH ever being relegated to a lower spot on the card as champion? 05 onwards the title returned to the top mainly driven by the Cena project, Vince could not ignore $$$ over the son-in-law

But despite the WWE title playing second fiddle at that time, it was largely minimised due to Heyman’s shrewd booking and engaging feuds involving the likes of Eddie, Kurt and Lesnar among others

Imagine the fate of Jericho and RVD if they were on Smackdown

The Cena project IMO was the best thing to happen during that time as it led to downfall of the reign of terror. And it led to the rise of Edge, Randy and Batista too.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

That match is not even on my list to watch, both guys are a disgrace to pro wrestling. They don’t belong on PPV. Their matches are over hyped by Meltzer who has been exposed now and a very niche group of hipster smarks. Ospreay is a poor mans Ricochet and he along with Zack Sabre Jnr are not even in the top 5 best in the UK

I won't call Ospreay a poor man's Ricochet though as Ricochet hasn't lived upto his potential especially in WWE. Ricochet is a natural athlete and much fitter than Ospreay who gets injured a lot. But Ospreay's transition to Heavyweight and altered style is pretty good but man that match ****** me off.

I called Meltzer a fraud 2 years back if you remember.

 

[shaz619]

I think am very good at picking matches worth my time, with so much on, Punk/Jap-Dude and Bryan/Okada delivered on all fronts.

First on Punk, again, he leaned into the crowd reaction like a real pro and adapted his work accordingly, his mannerisms were fantastic and if he continues to work this way, he can do this for some time hopefully. A very fun match and a great return to singles action.

I don’t know how TK got the rights to the final countdown, but that was a nice moment and bought back memories. I can’t remember, but feel as though it was popularised by the british independent circuit here. But both entrances were great and when that bell rang, goosebumps. Okada may not have been blessed with a contact sport background, but he was an athlete, and it also forced him to focus more on ring generalship and psychology, his technique is so sound, he is so agile and dynamic with his movement and he just makes wrestling look so flawless, watching him in the ring is like opera, I felt that way about Shawn Michaels. Bryan called himself the litmus test, and I think he saw this challenge in the same light, everything in his career was leading to this moment, this one match makes it worth signing that AEW contract. Bryan was great here working the north american style and working off basic layout but with some unique ground work mixed in, the styles meshed well and the story revolved around Bryan attempting to take away the rainmaker. The match was beautiful.

The only thing I’d day is I found it odd Bryan was clutching his arm at the end there to despite it not having been worked on during the match, maybe am reading too much into it but apart from that it delivered on the hype. The finish was surprising, I hope there’s a rematch in Japan.

 

[shaz619]

Reddit SquaredCircle is simply unbearable. Its populated by AEW marks. I would love to stay in touch with you guys tho after PP closes. Open to any suggestions.

yup definitely.

Try this guys if interested:

https://t.me/+CwzszyOXPhcyMjE0

 

[shaz619]

I won't call Ospreay a poor man's Ricochet though as Ricochet hasn't lived upto his potential especially in WWE. Ricochet is a natural athlete and much fitter than Ospreay who gets injured a lot. But Ospreay's transition to Heavyweight and altered style is pretty good but man that match ****** me off.

I called Meltzer a fraud 2 years back if you remember.

Ricochet has been booked like a chump, he was a star for LU and so over as Prince Puma

 

[shaz619]

I think am very good at picking matches worth my time, with so much on, Punk/Jap-Dude and Bryan/Okada delivered on all fronts.

First on Punk, again, he leaned into the crowd reaction like a real pro and adapted his work accordingly, his mannerisms were fantastic and if he continues to work this way, he can do this for some time hopefully. A very fun match and a great return to singles action.

I don’t know how TK got the rights to the final countdown, but that was a nice moment and bought back memories. I can’t remember, but feel as though it was popularised by the british independent circuit here. But both entrances were great and when that bell rang, goosebumps. Okada may not have been blessed with a contact sport background, but he was an athlete, and it also forced him to focus more on ring generalship and psychology, his technique is so sound, he is so agile and dynamic with his movement and he just makes wrestling look so flawless, watching him in the ring is like opera, I felt that way about Shawn Michaels. Bryan called himself the litmus test, and I think he saw this challenge in the same light, everything in his career was leading to this moment, this one match makes it worth signing that AEW contract. Bryan was great here working the north american style and working off basic layout but with some unique ground work mixed in, the styles meshed well and the story revolved around Bryan attempting to take away the rainmaker. The match was beautiful.

The only thing I’d day is I found it odd Bryan was clutching his arm at the end there to despite it not having been worked on during the match, maybe am reading too much into it but apart from that it delivered on the hype. The finish was surprising, I hope there’s a rematch in Japan.

I only watched these two matches, need to check out MJF v Tanahashi at some point maybe

 

[shaz619]

I won't call Ospreay a poor man's Ricochet though as Ricochet hasn't lived upto his potential especially in WWE. Ricochet is a natural athlete and much fitter than Ospreay who gets injured a lot. But Ospreay's transition to Heavyweight and altered style is pretty good but man that match ****** me off.

I called Meltzer a fraud 2 years back if you remember.

I’ve watched multiple matches of Ospreay which Dave rated so highly and sure he’s a talented high flyer, but is no where near the best in the world today let alone the past. You wont go out of your way to see an Ospreay or Omega match unless they are in the ring with someone special.

You put them both in the ring together and goodness me, am turning the TV off.

And that’s a good point, how can anyone who can’t be fit in their prime be regarded as the best

 

[shaz619]

Caught Collision last night and man oh man, what a freakin' match. The wrestling was good but everything was accentuated by the divisive reaction that Punk got in this match. It was pretty remarkable how split in the middle the crowd was. You could hear it in the chants. And Punk leaned into it so perfectly. I LOVED the Hogan nods. Especially when he did the big boot and hit the leg drop. What a legend, this guy. His instincts and understanding of pro-wrestling is light years ahead of most people currently in this business.

That leg drop was hilarious lol when you watch Punk work like that, you really miss the era where wrestling psychology was valued more than anything else. Even with basic offence and selling, he can make a match so fun to watch. He idolised Bret and some of the creativity shows in his work, Bret always did more with less

 

[shaz619]

The Cena project IMO was the best thing to happen during that time as it led to downfall of the reign of terror. And it led to the rise of Edge, Randy and Batista too.

It was but then he went on his own reign of terror he could have dropped that belt a couple of times at least to give us a break. I wish Shawn won it in 2007 from him

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I won't call Ospreay a poor man's Ricochet though as Ricochet hasn't lived upto his potential especially in WWE. Ricochet is a natural athlete and much fitter than Ospreay who gets injured a lot. But Ospreay's transition to Heavyweight and altered style is pretty good but man that match ****** me off.

I called Meltzer a fraud 2 years back if you remember.

Yeah I agree. Ospreay was a total spot monkey up till a few years ago. His match with Ricochet in New Japan is ironically enough the best example of that fact. But he has become a far more complete wrestler in recent years and adapted his style to the main-event considerably. Keeping the Meltzer overhyping aside, I think he is genuinely of the best in-ring wrestlers in the world right now.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I think am very good at picking matches worth my time, with so much on, Punk/Jap-Dude and Bryan/Okada delivered on all fronts.

First on Punk, again, he leaned into the crowd reaction like a real pro and adapted his work accordingly, his mannerisms were fantastic and if he continues to work this way, he can do this for some time hopefully. A very fun match and a great return to singles action.

I don’t know how TK got the rights to the final countdown, but that was a nice moment and bought back memories. I can’t remember, but feel as though it was popularised by the british independent circuit here. But both entrances were great and when that bell rang, goosebumps. Okada may not have been blessed with a contact sport background, but he was an athlete, and it also forced him to focus more on ring generalship and psychology, his technique is so sound, he is so agile and dynamic with his movement and he just makes wrestling look so flawless, watching him in the ring is like opera, I felt that way about Shawn Michaels. Bryan called himself the litmus test, and I think he saw this challenge in the same light, everything in his career was leading to this moment, this one match makes it worth signing that AEW contract. Bryan was great here working the north american style and working off basic layout but with some unique ground work mixed in, the styles meshed well and the story revolved around Bryan attempting to take away the rainmaker. The match was beautiful.

The only thing I’d day is I found it odd Bryan was clutching his arm at the end there to despite it not having been worked on during the match, maybe am reading too much into it but apart from that it delivered on the hype. The finish was surprising, I hope there’s a rematch in Japan.

Only seen the first two matches so far. I will read your thoughts on Danielson-Okada once I see it.

The Punk match I thought overdelivered. Kojima did fairly well barring the elbow drop where he looked like he smashed Punk's yambag. Punk's transition into a full blown heel in this match was brilliant. And yet again, his psychology was on-point for this divisive crowd. I LOLed when he yelled "Lariat" and "Kojima" at the camera while landing blows in the corner. But all things considered, this was fairly good.

The other match that I saw was not though. MJF v Tanahashi. What a freakin' disappointment. I can't blame MJF too much here because he was wrestling his traditional style. The problem was that Tanahashi was simply not there. He was too slow and had very little impact in his offence. Watching this match was like watching something from the 1940s...it was taking place in slow-motion. Which is why I was even more even more impressed with Kojima's performance in the next match. Btw, the verdict is in, Tanahashi definitely has the s*ittiest elbow-drop in the history of wrestling.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

That leg drop was hilarious lol when you watch Punk work like that, you really miss the era where wrestling psychology was valued more than anything else. Even with basic offence and selling, he can make a match so fun to watch. He idolised Bret and some of the creativity shows in his work, Bret always did more with less

This is why a guy like Punk is like rarefied air in today's wrestling landscape where there are a plethora of guys who are very good in the ring but have zero personality or ability to work the crowd. Great point btw about how he can make even basic offence compelling to watch. That's comes from a commitment to telling a story in the ring rather than trying to get cheap pops from the crowd.

And because he illicits such a divisive reaction from the crowd you can literally put him in the ring against anyone, heel or babyface, and he could turn it into a heel vs babyface match.

 

[shaz619]

Only seen the first two matches so far. I will read your thoughts on Danielson-Okada once I see it.

The Punk match I thought overdelivered. Kojima did fairly well barring the elbow drop where he looked like he smashed Punk's yambag. Punk's transition into a full blown heel in this match was brilliant. And yet again, his psychology was on-point for this divisive crowd. I LOLed when he yelled "Lariat" and "Kojima" at the camera while landing blows in the corner. But all things considered, this was fairly good.

The other match that I saw was not though. MJF v Tanahashi. What a freakin' disappointment. I can't blame MJF too much here because he was wrestling his traditional style. The problem was that Tanahashi was simply not there. He was too slow and had very little impact in his offence. Watching this match was like watching something from the 1940s...it was taking place in slow-motion. Which is why I was even more even more impressed with Kojima's performance in the next match. Btw, the verdict is in, Tanahashi definitely has the s*ittiest elbow-drop in the history of wrestling.

Ah let me know how you find the Bryan/Okada match once you seen it and I wont bother with the MJF match in that case, I agree it’s a weird elbow, Punk’s is better imo

Punk did a great deal with such little time shows how advanced his wrestling mind is, I was surprised to find the match was like 13 min!!

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Ah let me know how you find the Bryan/Okada match once you seen it and I wont bother with the MJF match in that case, I agree it’s a weird elbow, Punk’s is better imo

Punk did a great deal with such little time shows how advanced his wrestling mind is, I was surprised to find the match was like 13 min!!

Only saw 3 matches. Bryan Okada was a great old fashioned match with Bryan winning a nice touch. Expecting them to clash again in NJPW. Bryan broke his arm which sucked. Punk Kojima was nice. Velveteen Dream did the Hogan spots in his match against Ciampa when he was a semi heel too. It always works.

 

[shaz619]

Only saw 3 matches. Bryan Okada was a great old fashioned match with Bryan winning a nice touch. Expecting them to clash again in NJPW. Bryan broke his arm which sucked. Punk Kojima was nice. Velveteen Dream did the Hogan spots in his match against Ciampa when he was a semi heel too. It always works.

I totally agree, it was a classic match and that makes sense! otherwise I doubt Bryan would have randomly started selling his arm, I felt that was odd, I hope he is not out too long, did you check out this match: https://t.me/+CwzszyOXPhcyMjE0 , me and Redwood saw it and it's a hidden gem. Ah man don't talk about Velveteen Dream to me, that absolute nimrod, he was a generational talent man, what a colossal waste

 

[shaz619]

AEW Fight Forever Review by IGN, do you guys think it's fair ?

Reviews have been mixed to positive, I think the fan response has been a bit better compared to critics

 

[shaz619]

This is why a guy like Punk is like rarefied air in today's wrestling landscape where there are a plethora of guys who are very good in the ring but have zero personality or ability to work the crowd. Great point btw about how he can make even basic offence compelling to watch. That's comes from a commitment to telling a story in the ring rather than trying to get cheap pops from the crowd.

And because he illicits such a divisive reaction from the crowd you can literally put him in the ring against anyone, heel or babyface, and he could turn it into a heel vs babyface match.

Looks like Sting performed another dangerous spot this week, he seems to every time after a big PPV, why do they have him take such stupid risks?

I hope we get a high profile Sting singles match, it would be perfect for Wembley, is there any chance of this?

 

[shaz619]

I haven't played AEW fight forever, but from my POV it's a start. WCW vs NWO World or something which founded the game engine which THQ built on before the classic releases might be a better measuring stick in my opinion.

Hopefully they sort out all the bugs etc which are common with the first wave of purchases