The Wrestling Discussion Thread

[BunnyRabbit]

Saw a Rampage match Dralistico vs Vikingo and man that stuff is really offputting for me. This was choreography not wrestling. It was like they were doing ballet rather than beating each other. Like literally waiting for other to perform his move and leaning into it.3 or 4 canadian destroyers at various positions including ring apron in a 10 min match. That sort of wrestling is definitely not for me.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

bro you just said a few posts above you think McAfee is better than Logan.

Where? MacAfee is good for a non-wrestler. But Logan is arguably one of the best non-wrestlers to ever step into a ring imo.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Edge/Rollins is a big match and has great background story, they can really build it up nicely in the next few weeks.

I don’t mind seeing Edge and Reigns, two big heavyweights and major names. But I think Reigns v Styles is more likely. I don’t know who Edge will work with, but I am all for a program with LA Knight opposed to the over rated Karrion Kross. I wouldn’t mind Edge vs Lashley or Sheamus either, not visited these matches before.

But for me I’d like Edge to revisit matches with Styles and Reigns, then go for LA Knight. Not bothered about the rest

Yeah Kross has not done it for me at all on the main-roster. There's a disconnect between the way he was booked on NXT and the way he has been booked on SD. At this point he's just another guy on the roster. And this gimmick has become the stalest thing in pro-wrestling after The House of Black. Which is basically speaking weird faux-prophetic medievel era verbiage in dimly lit rooms. Its so fake. Nobody talks like this lol.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Saw a Rampage match Dralistico vs Vikingo and man that stuff is really offputting for me. This was choreography not wrestling. It was like they were doing ballet rather than beating each other. Like literally waiting for other to perform his move and leaning into it.3 or 4 canadian destroyers at various positions including ring apron in a 10 min match. That sort of wrestling is definitely not for me.

Some of the modern lucha guys are just unwatchable and unfortunately alot of them end up on AEW TV. I mean these guys even put some of the American spot monkeys to shame with their aggressive parkour and utter disregard for rules or common sense. Vikingo is supposed to be the top guy in Mexico. And all he does in his matches are really cool looking gymnastics. Don't get me wrong, he can do some amazing tumblesaults. Which is why he should be trying out for Mexico's Olympics gymnastics team, not wrestling.

The worst of them all is Kommander. This guy has one thing. He does a ropewalk and then some elaborate spinning move to the outside. All while his opponent has to stand there watching him basically walk the ropes slowly and jump onto him. Not to mention, sometime this opponent has to catch ol' Kommander if he is out of place for the spot.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

On another note, is there any doubt in Punk’s name value and drawing power? he has sold 40-50k tickets all on his own in London, this wouldn’t be possible without the leaks of his comeback

Haven't been this excited for something in wrestling since 2 years ago, when the rumors of CM Punk's return last started swirling. Right now, the only thing I'm looking forward to is the debut of Collision. Because the latest rumor is that he is going to wrestle a match on that show too. Halle-freaking-lujah!

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Pro-wrestling feels incomplete with CM Punk out of it. No one and I mean no one, active in wrestling is functioning on Punk's level right now. Not the EVPs, not Mox, not Roman Reigns, not the Bloodline, not MJF. He's the biggest draw in wrestling, the biggest personality in wrestling and one of the last guys that actually takes it seriously and cares about doing compelling storylines about real issues that make sense.

Punk doesn't need pro-wrestling, pro-wrestling needs Punk to remind us just how incredible it can be when its done right. Can anyone point to a better feud in the modern era than the CM Punk v MJF feud? Can anyone point towards a better babyface run in the modern era than the one Punk had in late-2021? And that's just scratching the surface of his pretty short AEW run. There's also cutting-edge promos, amazing matches, logical stories.

And the good news is that he is coming back. And we should be glad that he still has a wrestling itch. Because after what he was subjected to, he was well within his rights to never come back to this business again.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Where? MacAfee is good for a non-wrestler. But Logan is arguably one of the best non-wrestlers to ever step into a ring imo.

That was shaz. lol I just messed up the comments.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Yeah Kross has not done it for me at all on the main-roster. There's a disconnect between the way he was booked on NXT and the way he has been booked on SD. At this point he's just another guy on the roster. And this gimmick has become the stalest thing in pro-wrestling after The House of Black. Which is basically speaking weird faux-prophetic medievel era verbiage in dimly lit rooms. Its so fake. Nobody talks like this lol.

It's not just his booking. He has looked well below his opponents in every way. His first feud was against Drew. Drew outperformed him in all aspects in that feud, wrestling, shape, promos, selling. The only thing that stood out for Kross during that feud was his electrocuted hair 5 min into his matches. He was made to look like a monster in NXT cause all the guys he faced were tiny (and better workers who carried him in their matches). Even in NXT he looked like the lesser worker in almost all his feuds. On the main roster, he's just visibly looked out of place. Can see him and Hit Row among others to be released soon (which weren't good re signings in any conceivable way). Mia Yim is another one that has looked out of place. Tegan Nox hasn't been featured at all. Gallows and Anderson will only be featured as long as they are associated with AJ.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Some of the modern lucha guys are just unwatchable and unfortunately alot of them end up on AEW TV. I mean these guys even put some of the American spot monkeys to shame with their aggressive parkour and utter disregard for rules or common sense. Vikingo is supposed to be the top guy in Mexico. And all he does in his matches are really cool looking gymnastics. Don't get me wrong, he can do some amazing tumblesaults. Which is why he should be trying out for Mexico's Olympics gymnastics team, not wrestling.

The worst of them all is Kommander. This guy has one thing. He does a ropewalk and then some elaborate spinning move to the outside. All while his opponent has to stand there watching him basically walk the ropes slowly and jump onto him. Not to mention, sometime this opponent has to catch ol' Kommander if he is out of place for the spot.

Compared to these guys, I think Andrade seems to be in another league among Mexican wrestlers.

 

[shaz619]

Pro-wrestling feels incomplete with CM Punk out of it. No one and I mean no one, active in wrestling is functioning on Punk's level right now. Not the EVPs, not Mox, not Roman Reigns, not the Bloodline, not MJF. He's the biggest draw in wrestling, the biggest personality in wrestling and one of the last guys that actually takes it seriously and cares about doing compelling storylines about real issues that make sense.

Punk doesn't need pro-wrestling, pro-wrestling needs Punk to remind us just how incredible it can be when its done right. Can anyone point to a better feud in the modern era than the CM Punk v MJF feud? Can anyone point towards a better babyface run in the modern era than the one Punk had in late-2021? And that's just scratching the surface of his pretty short AEW run. There's also cutting-edge promos, amazing matches, logical stories.

And the good news is that he is coming back. And we should be glad that he still has a wrestling itch. Because after what he was subjected to, he was well within his rights to never come back to this business again.

To some extent I disagree on some points but I’d argue against any of them, the fact that we are here, is preposterous. CM Punk is a personified star and first ballot HOF’er, if people doubted it before, only hipster smarks will question it now. He went toe to toe with Reigns during his run, that’s just nuts, am glad the PWI have captured his glorious return

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

It's not just his booking. He has looked well below his opponents in every way. His first feud was against Drew. Drew outperformed him in all aspects in that feud, wrestling, shape, promos, selling. The only thing that stood out for Kross during that feud was his electrocuted hair 5 min into his matches. He was made to look like a monster in NXT cause all the guys he faced were tiny (and better workers who carried him in their matches). Even in NXT he looked like the lesser worker in almost all his feuds. On the main roster, he's just visibly looked out of place. Can see him and Hit Row among others to be released soon (which weren't good re signings in any conceivable way). Mia Yim is another one that has looked out of place. Tegan Nox hasn't been featured at all. Gallows and Anderson will only be featured as long as they are associated with AJ.

I think they are keeping Hit Row around just to amuse themselves. You can tell that just by listening to the commentators bury them constantly. And honestly, its fun to see what kind of screw up the walking fridge Flop Dolla will do in the ring next.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

To some extent I disagree on some points but I’d argue against any of them, the fact that we are here, is preposterous. CM Punk is a personified star and first ballot HOF’er, if people doubted it before, only hipster smarks will question it now. He went toe to toe with Reigns during his run, that’s just nuts, am glad the PWI have captured his glorious return

Moxley: "The Elite v BCC is the apex of pro-wrestling."

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Moxley: "The Elite v BCC is the apex of pro-wrestling."

Mox just seems bullish here, not even all AEW fans consider it to be that good or that important. Seems just salty that he is not the AEW's top star when Punk is there.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I think they are keeping Hit Row around just to amuse themselves. You can tell that just by listening to the commentators bury them constantly. And honestly, its fun to see what kind of screw up the walking fridge Flop Dolla will do in the ring next.

Top Dolla has always been an obnoxious fellow. He'd been flipping people off on twitter with bizarre antics and comments during the time he was first released. The whole Hit Row gimmick is pretentious and annoying.

Don't think Trips hired them to amuse the commentators. Probably thought all of his NXT stuff was great stuff when it wasn't. And I'm a big NXT fan. But Hit Row is from the time when NXT started going really low.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Mox just seems bullish here, not even all AEW fans consider it to be that good or that important. Seems just salty that he is not the AEW's top star when Punk is there.

I think it's more a case of just buying into your own hype. Don't get me wrong, Mox is the MVP of AEW. When you think about someone who personifies their brand and has been there from day one as a top guy, its Mox. But unfortunately he, like the Bucks also seems to think that what he is doing is somehow ground-breaking, revolutionary stuff that's shaking the very foundations of pro-wrestling. Which is just not true. And oh yeah, he's not CM Punk or Bruiser Brody or Terry Funk or Sandman, no matter how much he may try to convince himself otherwise.

Re: Punk, it's pretty obvious that Mox had some professional jealousy towards Punk based on the stuff that Punk said in that Instagram post. Does he still feel that way? Who knows. Tough to say. We'll have to wait and see. If I were Tony I would keep him and Punk as far apart from each other as possible.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Top Dolla has always been an obnoxious fellow. He'd been flipping people off on twitter with bizarre antics and comments during the time he was first released. The whole Hit Row gimmick is pretentious and annoying.

Don't think Trips hired them to amuse the commentators. Probably thought all of his NXT stuff was great stuff when it wasn't. And I'm a big NXT fan. But Hit Row is from the time when NXT started going really low.

I never saw them in NXT, but tbh getting over on a soundstage infront of a handful of devoted fans and a crowd of thousands in a packed arena are two very different things. On top of that, the only interesting guy in their group: Swerve got canned. And once he was out they were badly exposed. Not only because they couldn't wrestle but also because they were terrible at rapping. If they had personality, they could have gotten over purely on that.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

To some extent I disagree on some points but I’d argue against any of them, the fact that we are here, is preposterous. CM Punk is a personified star and first ballot HOF’er, if people doubted it before, only hipster smarks will question it now. He went toe to toe with Reigns during his run, that’s just nuts, am glad the PWI have captured his glorious return

Well time to mark out bro because the latest rumor going around is that Punk wants to work his comeback match with Samoa Joe. The match might take place on the debut episode of Collision at the United Center. Finally, after close to a decade, one of the greatest rivalries/series of wrestling matches ever will continue.

Arguably one of the greatest dream matches in AEW. And I would lose it if they actually do it.

While nobody is expecting these two to go an hour broadway, the fact that they are they all this experience now as workers excites me even more. Because I know that if it happens, it has the potential to be an excellent match. In a very different sense.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Will be interesting to see how the Bucks and their ilk will react when Punk takes all the attention away from them. Right now, Punk turning up backstage at IMPACT generates more attention than their matches on national TV. If Punk is allowed to have a proper run with this company and do things his way then you can be sure that all eyes will be on Punk. I suspect that the Bucks will go and cry to Meltzer, being the whiny little school kids that they are. But my hope that Punk makes them irrelevant. So that they regret not working him for the rest of their lives.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I never saw them in NXT, but tbh getting over on a soundstage infront of a handful of devoted fans and a crowd of thousands in a packed arena are two very different things. On top of that, the only interesting guy in their group: Swerve got canned. And once he was out they were badly exposed. Not only because they couldn't wrestle but also because they were terrible at rapping. If they had personality, they could have gotten over purely on that.

The gimmick was absolutely fake. Even in NXT they weren't over. Swerve was already over before Hit Row became a thing. He was the only good wrestler with mic skills. Swerve is a mark for himself though. Even in AEW, he was the better part of the Keith Lee-Swerve team and consistently outperformed Lee.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I think it's more a case of just buying into your own hype. Don't get me wrong, Mox is the MVP of AEW. When you think about someone who personifies their brand and has been there from day one as a top guy, its Mox. But unfortunately he, like the Bucks also seems to think that what he is doing is somehow ground-breaking, revolutionary stuff that's shaking the very foundations of pro-wrestling. Which is just not true. And oh yeah, he's not CM Punk or Bruiser Brody or Terry Funk or Sandman, no matter how much he may try to convince himself otherwise.

Re: Punk, it's pretty obvious that Mox had some professional jealousy towards Punk based on the stuff that Punk said in that Instagram post. Does he still feel that way? Who knows. Tough to say. We'll have to wait and see. If I were Tony I would keep him and Punk as far apart from each other as possible.

Mox was the only guy before Punk and Bryan's signing AEW could build their brand around. Jericho did well in the initial 6 months or so but after that it was all on Mox. Cody was never the top guy in AEW and tbh that was a blunder by Tony who didn't see value in him.

Mox has always seemed like a guy who wants appreciation and loses his head once he doesn't get it (or what he thinks he should be getting). Part of the reason he left WWE was and still is, he was always the third guy from the Shield and that probably ate him up. The stuff he said that his gimmick wasn't right and stuff about leaving WWE is just talk.

In all honesty, the only guy who doesn't fall prey to such stuff has been Bryan who throughout his tenure in both WWE and AEW has shown he doesn't get himself involved in politics or see them as the boss of everyone.

The bigger concern for Punk should be to tell himself to not test his body's limit too much. The guy got injured twice in a span of few months. They need to keep him injury free.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Well time to mark out bro because the latest rumor going around is that Punk wants to work his comeback match with Samoa Joe. The match might take place on the debut episode of Collision at the United Center. Finally, after close to a decade, one of the greatest rivalries/series of wrestling matches ever will continue.

Arguably one of the greatest dream matches in AEW. And I would lose it if they actually do it.

While nobody is expecting these two to go an hour broadway, the fact that they are they all this experience now as workers excites me even more. Because I know that if it happens, it has the potential to be an excellent match. In a very different sense.

It's a travesty why Joe hasn't been amongst the top guys in both WWE and AEW. The guy is a complete package and can match the likes of Punk, AJ, Bryan etc in terms of allround skills.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Mox was the only guy before Punk and Bryan's signing AEW could build their brand around. Jericho did well in the initial 6 months or so but after that it was all on Mox. Cody was never the top guy in AEW and tbh that was a blunder by Tony who didn't see value in him.

Mox has always seemed like a guy who wants appreciation and loses his head once he doesn't get it (or what he thinks he should be getting). Part of the reason he left WWE was and still is, he was always the third guy from the Shield and that probably ate him up. The stuff he said that his gimmick wasn't right and stuff about leaving WWE is just talk.

In all honesty, the only guy who doesn't fall prey to such stuff has been Bryan who throughout his tenure in both WWE and AEW has shown he doesn't get himself involved in politics or see them as the boss of everyone.

The bigger concern for Punk should be to tell himself to not test his body's limit too much. The guy got injured twice in a span of few months. They need to keep him injury free.

Cody not being a top guy was his decision, not Tony's. Like Dusty, he saw himself as a booker/wrestler role in AEW, where he would have the significant hand in creative. And he felt that if he became World Champion or a tippy top guy, there would be heat on him from the smart fans. That's primarily also why the Bucks waited a year before putting the tag belts on themselves. Reality though was that Cody was overthinking it. And he didn't have a strong personality in AEW to tell him what was good for him. Its like every time there was an important decision to make, he made the wrong one. Right until the end when he clearly should have turned heel but didn't.

As for Mox, tbh I sympathize with everything he says about his WWE run. Mox was always money but WWE didn't see the value in him. In 2018 he came back from a life-threatening injury and put on a fair bit of size too. But all WWE wanted to do was a Shield nostalgia trip. Ok. The last straw though was when they turned him heel. And they really could have done something there because Moxley wrestles like a heel anyway. But instead they came up with this bizarre gimmick where he wore a gas mask and wanted to be away from people because they had germs. The feud with Rollins was absolutely rotten. And not long after that. he was gone.

Its good that he can finally be who really is as a personality now, but now the downside is that he has no one to rein him in. And he can go out there and have any kind of match he wants. Regardless of whether it makes a lick of sense or not. And nobody can control him.

Tbh, both were freak injuries that could have happened to anyone. The first one was a massive blunder on his part. There is no need to jump in the crowd. Especially where there is such big gap between the floor and the entrance ramp. The torn pec you can plan for. We saw even someone as young and active like Cody tore his pec. So I don't think that's something you can prepare for.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

It's a travesty why Joe hasn't been amongst the top guys in both WWE and AEW. The guy is a complete package and can match the likes of Punk, AJ, Bryan etc in terms of allround skills.

Couldn't agree more. He has always been a main-event caliber guy. Although I will say that his booking in AEW has been far better than his booking in WWE.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

The gimmick was absolutely fake. Even in NXT they weren't over. Swerve was already over before Hit Row became a thing. He was the only good wrestler with mic skills. Swerve is a mark for himself though. Even in AEW, he was the better part of the Keith Lee-Swerve team and consistently outperformed Lee.

Well I look forward to them getting viral on the internet again for all the wrong reasons and the commentators burying them.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Well I look forward to them getting viral on the internet again for all the wrong reasons and the commentators burying them.

It's the top dolla that always gets viral with either stupid antics or other stuff. Bfab is so fake in her so called tough gimmick.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Couldn't agree more. He has always been a main-event caliber guy. Although I will say that his booking in AEW has been far better than his booking in WWE.

Vince was a big reason of Joe not being booked well enough. He even put him on commentary for over a year.
When Vince sees someone as injury prone, he just wouldn't push him.

His Nxt run was amazing especially his feuds with Balor and Nakamura. And the one hour match with Cesaro was brilliant too.

His main roster highlight was his feud with Brock especially the build up. Him choking Brock out in coquina clutch was an incredible sight.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Cody not being a top guy was his decision, not Tony's. Like Dusty, he saw himself as a booker/wrestler role in AEW, where he would have the significant hand in creative. And he felt that if he became World Champion or a tippy top guy, there would be heat on him from the smart fans. That's primarily also why the Bucks waited a year before putting the tag belts on themselves. Reality though was that Cody was overthinking it. And he didn't have a strong personality in AEW to tell him what was good for him. Its like every time there was an important decision to make, he made the wrong one. Right until the end when he clearly should have turned heel but didn't.

As for Mox, tbh I sympathize with everything he says about his WWE run. Mox was always money but WWE didn't see the value in him. In 2018 he came back from a life-threatening injury and put on a fair bit of size too. But all WWE wanted to do was a Shield nostalgia trip. Ok. The last straw though was when they turned him heel. And they really could have done something there because Moxley wrestles like a heel anyway. But instead they came up with this bizarre gimmick where he wore a gas mask and wanted to be away from people because they had germs. The feud with Rollins was absolutely rotten. And not long after that. he was gone.

Its good that he can finally be who really is as a personality now, but now the downside is that he has no one to rein him in. And he can go out there and have any kind of match he wants. Regardless of whether it makes a lick of sense or not. And nobody can control him.

Tbh, both were freak injuries that could have happened to anyone. The first one was a massive blunder on his part. There is no need to jump in the crowd. Especially where there is such big gap between the floor and the entrance ramp. The torn pec you can plan for. We saw even someone as young and active like Cody tore his pec. So I don't think that's something you can prepare for.

Mox is definitely an upgrade over Ambrose but Mox needs to be grounded a bit. Him bleeding in every single match or cutting promos trashing AEW as a face isn't something you'd want from your top guy.

It's actually been amazing to see Cody's American Nightmare gimmick getting so much bad heat from the crowd in AEW while the same gimmick has been absolutely money in WWE.

Guess not every wrestler has what it takes to become a booker. Also the Elite smark fans always rated Cody lower Kenny and Bucks for some reason even before AEW started.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Vince was a big reason of Joe not being booked well enough. He even put him on commentary for over a year.
When Vince sees someone as injury prone, he just wouldn't push him.

His Nxt run was amazing especially his feuds with Balor and Nakamura. And the one hour match with Cesaro was brilliant too.

His main roster highlight was his feud with Brock especially the build up. Him choking Brock out in coquina clutch was an incredible sight.

The Brock match was incredible. People don't talk about that match and feud enough. That was the closest thing to a heavyweight fight in wrestling. I thought his feud with AJ was pretty underrated too. He work as a heel was top-notch there. Only issue was that he didn't win a single match which kinda ruined his credibility as a legit threat. Injuries definitely hurt his WWE run...at one point he was even supposed to face Cena at Mania. But ultimately its WWE loss for bringing him on maybe a decade too late. When he was far from being in his prime. Incredible wrestler though. And I really hope he can end his career on a high with this AEW run.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Mox is definitely an upgrade over Ambrose but Mox needs to be grounded a bit. Him bleeding in every single match or cutting promos trashing AEW as a face isn't something you'd want from your top guy.

It's actually been amazing to see Cody's American Nightmare gimmick getting so much bad heat from the crowd in AEW while the same gimmick has been absolutely money in WWE.

Guess not every wrestler has what it takes to become a booker. Also the Elite smark fans always rated Cody lower Kenny and Bucks for some reason even before AEW started.

The bleeding in every match has become a parody at this point. That practice is so damaging to AEW because unlike WWE, AEW does do blood. Which I think such an important component in bringing that realism to wrestling. But because you have Mox doing it every single week, it means nothing when you see it in big blow-off matches, where it is actually required. It has become something you're conditioned to seeing. Kinda like someone going through a table. But then again. I guess that something that's hard for a guy like Mox to understand who seems intent on never moving away from his deathmatch garbage wrestling roots.

Well ofcourse they did because Cody wasn't part of their little indie wrestling bubble, no matter how hard he tried to chart his own path after leaving WWE. Cody didn't spend 10 years wrestling infront of 100 hardcore PWG fans in a bingo hall in Reseda. He didn't do matches where everyone just starts wrestling in slow-motion. His vision of wrestling didn't include getting hit by 50 superkicks, 10 Canadian destroyers, 15 moonsaults and still kicking out. So they never really accepted him, eventhough he had just as much of a hand (if not more) in making All In a success and shattering the foundation of pro-wrestling in the US.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Much to the surprise of absolutely no one Jungle Jacka** is another empty headed DF who doesn't like taking advice from veterans and likes to 'do his own thing.' He also seems to have the personality of a mailbox and is an arrogant p***k. Which again, seems like a case of life imitating art (or is it the other way around?) considering that how he comes off on TV too.

https://youtu.be/yE0ckckFciE

The high-spots:

- He doesn't like taking advice from veterans, especially people like Billy Gunn because he "hates Canadian destroyers."

- He likes taking advice from, and runs his matches by Luchasaurus. Yeah, that uncoordinated 6 and half foot giant who wrestles like a luchador and hasn't had a logical match in his life.

- He did not seem impressed when a fan asked him about potentially working with CM Punk.

- Is a total uninterested, arrogant p***k, according to the fans who interacted with him.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

It was great to see Miro back in AEW. Even if it was in a seemingly innocuous backstage segment that saw him walk into Tony Khan's office. More teases of Collision.

I'm thinking Miro squashes Cassidy and takes the ̶I̶n̶t̶e̶r̶c̶o̶n̶t̶i̶n̶e̶n̶t̶a̶l̶ International Championship to Collision.

Come to think of it, there are a number of people I would like on that show. Punk, FTR, Kingston, Samoa Joe, Miro, Ricky Starks, Christian Cage, Darby, Powerhouse Hobbs, Mark Briscoe, Wardlow, Thunder Rosa (who also walked into Khan's office). Maybe they can even bring Andrade back.

Imagine how good a show with that^ roster would be.

You could separate the indie darlings from the pro-wrestlers. And then atleast will see some actual wrestling on one show.

 

[shaz619]

Two classic TV matches on SD this week, what a treat.

AJ Styles still got it, to be thrown in that position, on his return, and to go out there and perform like the legend he is, fantastic showing.

Also, I hate how the Canadian destroyer is overused, Bunny can do it, but just look at the beautiful technique of Rey Mysterio Jnr, these bum dosser celebs get too much cred.

The triple threat was outstanding, they didn’t reinvent the wheel but AJ/Edge/Rey were very creative with how they transitioned into their spots and it was a super fun match. The main event was probably one of the best singles matches I’ve watched on free TV in a while, power vs speed, great intensity and ring generalship shown by both guys, I don’t know if they worked in TNA but these two have great chemistry and I’d love to see a match on PPV.

With Styles going over, 2 inch Rollins is for sure being positioned to look as STRONG as possible, he has started to use the pedigree again to so we all know the writing is on the wall. Hope its a great match.

 

[shaz619]

Well time to mark out bro because the latest rumor going around is that Punk wants to work his comeback match with Samoa Joe. The match might take place on the debut episode of Collision at the United Center. Finally, after close to a decade, one of the greatest rivalries/series of wrestling matches ever will continue.

Arguably one of the greatest dream matches in AEW. And I would lose it if they actually do it.

While nobody is expecting these two to go an hour broadway, the fact that they are they all this experience now as workers excites me even more. Because I know that if it happens, it has the potential to be an excellent match. In a very different sense.

I would normally be excited and I still am, I trust both to do what they do best, although am more in favour generally of the seasoned pro against maybe a slightly fresher opponent. But I hope the two bring the best out of each other and the ring stuff should be secondary if they have a proper programme which is going to have amazing heat anyway

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Two classic TV matches on SD this week, what a treat.

AJ Styles still got it, to be thrown in that position, on his return, and to go out there and perform like the legend he is, fantastic showing.

Also, I hate how the Canadian destroyer is overused, Bunny can do it, but just look at the beautiful technique of Rey Mysterio Jnr, these bum dosser celebs get too much cred.

The triple threat was outstanding, they didn’t reinvent the wheel but AJ/Edge/Rey were very creative with how they transitioned into their spots and it was a super fun match. The main event was probably one of the best singles matches I’ve watched on free TV in a while, power vs speed, great intensity and ring generalship shown by both guys, I don’t know if they worked in TNA but these two have great chemistry and I’d love to see a match on PPV.

With Styles going over, 2 inch Rollins is for sure being positioned to look as STRONG as possible, he has started to use the pedigree again to so we all know the writing is on the wall. Hope its a great match.

I didn't care for the second match but the first one was about as good of a three way as you can expect. With very minimal one guy lying on the outside. AJ v Rollins should be absolutely awesome.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I would normally be excited and I still am, I trust both to do what they do best, although am more in favour generally of the seasoned pro against maybe a slightly fresher opponent. But I hope the two bring the best out of each other and the ring stuff should be secondary if they have a proper programme which is going to have amazing heat anyway

Punk is sporting a buzzcut, which instantly reminds me of his WWE Championship run. I think its more than likely that he will be a heel. And the Chicago show could be a good place to do the turn because you know he is going to be cheered there.

 

[shaz619]

I didn't care for the second match but the first one was about as good of a three way as you can expect. With very minimal one guy lying on the outside. AJ v Rollins should be absolutely awesome.

It’s like they made a conscious effort to have a match atypical of the status quo for these encounters and they pulled it off, I will rewatch that main event, I enjoyed it that much. The match should be great, but don’t you think Rollins is overly hyped, apart from wooooaaah ooooooh, his gimmick, although improved, doesn’t do it for me and he works well with others, but he is at least a notch or two below the best in the world, you will see the gulf in class between him and AJ, that’s for sure

 

[shaz619]

Punk is sporting a buzzcut, which instantly reminds me of his WWE Championship run. I think its more than likely that he will be a heel. And the Chicago show could be a good place to do the turn because you know he is going to be cheered there.

Yes that would be a great idea, wasn’t the Chicago crowd cussing him out like 6 months ago or something and siding with the Bucks? I can’t remember now but if they were, boy oh boy, can’t wait for him to rip their apart

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Two classic TV matches on SD this week, what a treat.

AJ Styles still got it, to be thrown in that position, on his return, and to go out there and perform like the legend he is, fantastic showing.

Also, I hate how the Canadian destroyer is overused, Bunny can do it, but just look at the beautiful technique of Rey Mysterio Jnr, these bum dosser celebs get too much cred.

The triple threat was outstanding, they didn’t reinvent the wheel but AJ/Edge/Rey were very creative with how they transitioned into their spots and it was a super fun match. The main event was probably one of the best singles matches I’ve watched on free TV in a while, power vs speed, great intensity and ring generalship shown by both guys, I don’t know if they worked in TNA but these two have great chemistry and I’d love to see a match on PPV.

With Styles going over, 2 inch Rollins is for sure being positioned to look as STRONG as possible, he has started to use the pedigree again to so we all know the writing is on the wall. Hope its a great match.

Honestly speaking, I felt that the first triple threat started off waywardly. The spots weren't connecting and AJ for once looked rusty (for his high standards). Edge botched the final sequence as well by not hitting a spear on Rey. They started the match in 4th gear due to only 10 mins being given. I liked the second triple threat more which was more methodical with Lashley and Sheamus interactions being the best. The two could have a great feud.

The final match was very good and AJ looked a lot more at home there. I think they could have taken out the Bianca segment and given the first triple threat a little more time.

Bloodline segment was amazing as expected. I feel like Roman and Solo might win the tag titles at the Night of Champions.

Rollins is going over AJ and we all know that. AJ and Seth have had 2 singles matches before I think and both were awesome especially the one in 2019.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

It’s like they made a conscious effort to have a match atypical of the status quo for these encounters and they pulled it off, I will rewatch that main event, I enjoyed it that much. The match should be great, but don’t you think Rollins is overly hyped, apart from wooooaaah ooooooh, his gimmick, although improved, doesn’t do it for me and he works well with others, but he is at least a notch or two below the best in the world, you will see the gulf in class between him and AJ, that’s for sure

According to WWE, they have numbered the guys in the roster in a certain class. Like Roman is at the top. Cody is at 2. Seth at 3. You can easily see that. They have AJ lower than Seth.

 

[shaz619]

Honestly speaking, I felt that the first triple threat started off waywardly. The spots weren't connecting and AJ for once looked rusty (for his high standards). Edge botched the final sequence as well by not hitting a spear on Rey. They started the match in 4th gear due to only 10 mins being given. I liked the second triple threat more which was more methodical with Lashley and Sheamus interactions being the best. The two could have a great feud.

The final match was very good and AJ looked a lot more at home there. I think they could have taken out the Bianca segment and given the first triple threat a little more time.

Bloodline segment was amazing as expected. I feel like Roman and Solo might win the tag titles at the Night of Champions.

Rollins is going over AJ and we all know that. AJ and Seth have had 2 singles matches before I think and both were awesome especially the one in 2019.

I thought it was outstanding honestly, no other three stars could have a match like that. They are all unique performers, can’t be judged by traditional expectations, we look at them also in the year 2023 and all things considered, it was brilliant TV. Edge was selling the 619 and gave Rey the spear instinctively, they really thought each spot through, this match is not for the modern fan. Seth Rollins is one of the monkeying leaders in the year of our lord 2023, he has been involved in plenty of automated matches now. AJ looked great from the word go, never looked to miss a beat, everything he did from a psychological pov, from a selling pov and overall ring awareness was great, maybe he was a bit cold, but that didn’t really matter at all and he was hot for the main event. None of these new guys are capable of performing on a same wave length of AJ and Rollins is sadly a Dollar Store AJ, they got no one else to turn to who they would deem age appropriate for the run, AJ even now, is light years ahead of the roster as far as ring performances are concerned, unless he doesn’t want it and a lighter schedule, it’s a no brainer, otherwise we are going to see the same formulaic automation from Rollins.

 

[Firebat]

I've been watching a few WWE matches on youtube recently as I haven't watched properly for a few years, I just came across an amazing Reigns vs Demon Balor match at Extreme Rules 2021.

Can someone who remembers it explain that finish to me??? The demon resurrection thing was insane, the crowd were going crazy, it was set up perfectly for Finn to go over and then they blew it with such an anti-climax of the top rope collapsing. What the hell was the storyline behind that? Who was supposed to have cut the rope?

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I thought it was outstanding honestly, no other three stars could have a match like that. They are all unique performers, can’t be judged by traditional expectations, we look at them also in the year 2023 and all things considered, it was brilliant TV. Edge was selling the 619 and gave Rey the spear instinctively, they really thought each spot through, this match is not for the modern fan. Seth Rollins is one of the monkeying leaders in the year of our lord 2023, he has been involved in plenty of automated matches now. AJ looked great from the word go, never looked to miss a beat, everything he did from a psychological pov, from a selling pov and overall ring awareness was great, maybe he was a bit cold, but that didn’t really matter at all and he was hot for the main event. None of these new guys are capable of performing on a same wave length of AJ and Rollins is sadly a Dollar Store AJ, they got no one else to turn to who they would deem age appropriate for the run, AJ even now, is light years ahead of the roster as far as ring performances are concerned, unless he doesn’t want it and a lighter schedule, it’s a no brainer, otherwise we are going to see the same formulaic automation from Rollins.

Although I am not a modern fan, I viewed the match that could have been better.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I've been watching a few WWE matches on youtube recently as I haven't watched properly for a few years, I just came across an amazing Reigns vs Demon Balor match at Extreme Rules 2021.

Can someone who remembers it explain that finish to me??? The demon resurrection thing was insane, the crowd were going crazy, it was set up perfectly for Finn to go over and then they blew it with such an anti-climax of the top rope collapsing. What the hell was the storyline behind that? Who was supposed to have cut the rope?

That was a fantastic match except for the ending. It was stupid and supposedly God willed for the rope to break as you can see Roman raising his finger and looking to the sky after the victory. It was after that match the Bloodline started raising the finger in their entrances and promos. Finn is fantastic and doesn't get the credit he deserves.

 

[The_KING]

Finn is fantastic and doesn't get the credit he deserves.

The best thing about Finn is the demon paint and that is about it, in my opinion.

 

[Suleiman]

I’ve never understood why Brock is so overhyped by Vince or whoever else (probably Vince), it kind of makes me dislike the character.

Why is he supposed to be this unbeatable beast? I hated how as soon as he debuted he started taking down established guys, and then to add insult to injury they chose him to end the streak of the undertaker.

And now, Cody, who needs all momentum he can get after losing to Reigns (another poor decision), had to sneak in a quick and streaky pin to defeat him, as if 3 crossrhodes back to back wouldn’t be enough… lol. What a joke.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

The best thing about Finn is the demon paint and that is about it, in my opinion.

I am a big Balor mark. His both NXT runs were amazing, rarely had a bad or average match. His matches involves a lot of psychology, and he rarely ever botches a move. His transitions from one move to the other are always smooth. I became a proper fan of him during his match with Braun (dominant run) back in 2017. He almost had everyone believe that he was going to win before KO interfered to a chorus of boos.
I loved how he consistently targeted Brocks abdomen during their match (Brock's long term history with diverticulitis) including pushing his gut on the announcer's table's edge. Had a fantastic match with Kross (kross's only good match as nxt champion)
Plus he has a wide array of submissions but for some reason doesn't use them in the main roster.

 

[The_KING]

I am a big Balor mark. His both NXT runs were amazing, rarely had a bad or average match. His matches involves a lot of psychology, and he rarely ever botches a move. His transitions from one move to the other are always smooth. I became a proper fan of him during his match with Braun (dominant run) back in 2017. He almost had everyone believe that he was going to win before KO interfered to a chorus of boos.
I loved how he consistently targeted Brocks abdomen during their match (Brock's long term history with diverticulitis) including pushing his gut on the announcer's table's edge. Had a fantastic match with Kross (kross's only good match as nxt champion)
Plus he has a wide array of submissions but for some reason doesn't use them in the main roster.

What would make Finn more interesting is if his style of wrestling differed when he is using his demon persona.

 

[The_KING]

I’ve never understood why Brock is so overhyped by Vince or whoever else (probably Vince), it kind of makes me dislike the character.

Why is he supposed to be this unbeatable beast? I hated how as soon as he debuted he started taking down established guys, and then to add insult to injury they chose him to end the streak of the undertaker.

And now, Cody, who needs all momentum he can get after losing to Reigns (another poor decision), had to sneak in a quick and streaky pin to defeat him, as if 3 crossrhodes back to back wouldn’t be enough… lol. What a joke.

I loved Brock during his initial run, but I admit that it isn't that fun watching him during his run from 2012-present, where he has been presented as an unbeatable beast and his moveset consists of a dozen german suplexes and a F5.

But Brock is still a great worker and he has been involved in some great matches since his 2012 comeback.

My favourite Brock match is when he destroyed Cena (one of my least favourites) at Summerslam 2014. That ended Cena's decade of destruction for good.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I’ve never understood why Brock is so overhyped by Vince or whoever else (probably Vince), it kind of makes me dislike the character.

Why is he supposed to be this unbeatable beast? I hated how as soon as he debuted he started taking down established guys, and then to add insult to injury they chose him to end the streak of the undertaker.

And now, Cody, who needs all momentum he can get after losing to Reigns (another poor decision), had to sneak in a quick and streaky pin to defeat him, as if 3 crossrhodes back to back wouldn’t be enough… lol. What a joke.

Well Brock has only won 2 singles matches since 2021, one against Lashley and one against Omos.

Brock is the biggest draw in WWE. He's really good as a wrestler, and has been a UFC champ which only adds credibility to his character. He's probably the best seller.

His debut when he legit destroyed Hardys and other jobbers, yes, it was strange but Vince always introduces monster characters like this.

Brock adds different kind of intensity into his matches that somehow feels real even though he now does only a few moves.

Brock should have faced Lashley at Mania instead of that cheap dq finish match that we got at EC.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

What would make Finn more interesting is if his style of wrestling differed when he is using his demon persona.

Yes 100% agree with it. If not tweaking his style, he needs to do some bigger moves when using his demon character like Devil Jin in Tekken. Think that's been missing from his demon persona. Finn actually himself doesn't like Demon that much. He thinks it appeals more to kids.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I loved Brock during his initial run, but I admit that it isn't that fun watching him during his run from 2012-present, where he has been presented as an unbeatable beast and his moveset consists of a dozen german suplexes and a F5.

But Brock is still a great worker and he has been involved in some great matches since his 2012 comeback.

My favourite Brock match is when he destroyed Cena (one of my least favourites) at Summerslam 2014. That ended Cena's decade of destruction for good.

His feud with Taker and Kurt during his first run were fantastic. Taker put him over perfectly. Then his feud with Kurt proved that he could swim with the sharks.

 

[Suleiman]

I loved Brock during his initial run, but I admit that it isn't that fun watching him during his run from 2012-present, where he has been presented as an unbeatable beast and his moveset consists of a dozen german suplexes and a F5.

But Brock is still a great worker and he has been involved in some great matches since his 2012 comeback.

My favourite Brock match is when he destroyed Cena (one of my least favourites) at Summerslam 2014. That ended Cena's decade of destruction for good.

LOL yeah I remember the Cena match. I too was rooting for Brock. Super Cena era had reached the end of its ridiculousness


[MENTION=141227]BunnyRabbit[/MENTION] oh yeah no doubt about Brock’s ability as a wrestler. I follow UFC as well, and a bunch of UFC gatekeepers hate on WWE, so it was cool to see them shut up when he did win there. But idk, his character is too bland. He’s like a plot device

But the recent Cody match Vs him is what made me say what I said earlier. It made Cody look a little weak.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

LOL yeah I remember the Cena match. I too was rooting for Brock. Super Cena era had reached the end of its ridiculousness


[MENTION=141227]BunnyRabbit[/MENTION] oh yeah no doubt about Brock’s ability as a wrestler. I follow UFC as well, and a bunch of UFC gatekeepers hate on WWE, so it was cool to see them shut up when he did win there. But idk, his character is too bland. He’s like a plot device

But the recent Cody match Vs him is what made me say what I said earlier. It made Cody look a little weak.

To me, they haven't had Cody presented well since his return. First they had him return at the Rumble at 30 and he eliminated the iron man of the rumble to win it (doesn't suit a heroic face). Then they had Cody in suit cutting promos for 1 month without any feud and only started the Roman program once Roman got done with Sami (Sami should have gone over IMO). And then obviously the loss at Mania wasn't good either. Vince was presenting him really well against his feud with Seth on his return.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

It’s like they made a conscious effort to have a match atypical of the status quo for these encounters and they pulled it off, I will rewatch that main event, I enjoyed it that much. The match should be great, but don’t you think Rollins is overly hyped, apart from wooooaaah ooooooh, his gimmick, although improved, doesn’t do it for me and he works well with others, but he is at least a notch or two below the best in the world, you will see the gulf in class between him and AJ, that’s for sure

I think right now, Rollins is the best wrestler in the company from an in-ring standpoint. And he has been booked in that spot consistently which is not the case with AJ. Overall, I feel AJ is better. But yes I agree, Rollins's gimmick is absolute garbage. Its way to cartoony. I've hated it for atleast two years. But now, just because people like to sing along with his song, they are trying to present him as the most over guy in the company. Which I don't think would be the case without that song.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Yes that would be a great idea, wasn’t the Chicago crowd cussing him out like 6 months ago or something and siding with the Bucks? I can’t remember now but if they were, boy oh boy, can’t wait for him to rip their apart

No actually it was the other way around in Chicago. The Bucks were being booed despite the nuclear heat Punk had with the AEW fanbase at that time. I think that might have been Indianapolis or something where he was cussed. Still though, a heel Punk in that environment being allowed to do worked shoot promos would be the stuff of dreams.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I’ve never understood why Brock is so overhyped by Vince or whoever else (probably Vince), it kind of makes me dislike the character.

Why is he supposed to be this unbeatable beast? I hated how as soon as he debuted he started taking down established guys, and then to add insult to injury they chose him to end the streak of the undertaker.

And now, Cody, who needs all momentum he can get after losing to Reigns (another poor decision), had to sneak in a quick and streaky pin to defeat him, as if 3 crossrhodes back to back wouldn’t be enough… lol. What a joke.

Because he is?

There is simply nobody in the business like Brock. There's nobody that looks like that, has that freakish strength, that kind of background in amateur wrestling & MMA, or can do that kind of a match.

When you get into the ring with Lesnar, you get a Brock Lesnar match. And there's nothing like it in wrestling period. Ultimately its WWE who benefit most because when the time comes to make a star out of Roman Reigns or Cody Rhodes, who do you put them in the ring against?

You can put someone in the ring against Goldberg, Cena or any other legend. But it would never be the same as putting them in the ring with Lesnar. That's just what Lesnar brings to the table. And that's precisely why he makes 1 million+ a match and has a private jet.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I loved Brock during his initial run, but I admit that it isn't that fun watching him during his run from 2012-present, where he has been presented as an unbeatable beast and his moveset consists of a dozen german suplexes and a F5.

But Brock is still a great worker and he has been involved in some great matches since his 2012 comeback.

My favourite Brock match is when he destroyed Cena (one of my least favourites) at Summerslam 2014. That ended Cena's decade of destruction for good.

I can't believe that you would be saying this if you saw Brock v AJ, Survivor Series 2017.

Brock's growth as a worker has been incredible. He doesn't sell for everyone. But when he does, you jaw drops as a fan. That's how good he is. Not to mention, it means something because it doesn't happen against everyone and preserves his mystqiue.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I loved Brock during his initial run, but I admit that it isn't that fun watching him during his run from 2012-present, where he has been presented as an unbeatable beast and his moveset consists of a dozen german suplexes and a F5.

But Brock is still a great worker and he has been involved in some great matches since his 2012 comeback.

My favourite Brock match is when he destroyed Cena (one of my least favourites) at Summerslam 2014. That ended Cena's decade of destruction for good.

Brock's matches are the equivalent of the heavyweight boxing fight.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I can't believe that you would be saying this if you saw Brock v AJ, Survivor Series 2017.

Brock's growth as a worker has been incredible. He doesn't sell for everyone. But when he does, you jaw drops as a fan. That's how good he is. Not to mention, it means something because it doesn't happen against everyone and preserves his mystqiue.

Agreed. Brock vs AJ was probably his best singles match in last 7-8 years.

 

[shaz619]

I can't believe that you would be saying this if you saw Brock v AJ, Survivor Series 2017.

Brock's growth as a worker has been incredible. He doesn't sell for everyone. But when he does, you jaw drops as a fan. That's how good he is. Not to mention, it means something because it doesn't happen against everyone and preserves his mystqiue.

The King is a lapsed fan, he is just starting to tune into product a bit more now I think so I get some of his points and popular topics from those days

Brock has been overly criticised since his return, for me, even without some of his high profile matches, he was wrestler of the decade 2010-2019 comfortably. There is stiff competition especially from AJ ironically for that gong. I think with Brock, and especially in this age, any change in mood is highly publicised. Brock‘s respect has to be earned, he’s a simple farmer. Given his stature, it was often forgotten that he never ever had an ego to match some of the big names in history. Hogan wouldn’t even do the job for HBK. One of the last stars in wrestling which loves the business truly and respects it in the ring through his outstanding work. Brock did what was asked of him ultimately.

 

[shaz619]

I think right now, Rollins is the best wrestler in the company from an in-ring standpoint. And he has been booked in that spot consistently which is not the case with AJ. Overall, I feel AJ is better. But yes I agree, Rollins's gimmick is absolute garbage. Its way to cartoony. I've hated it for atleast two years. But now, just because people like to sing along with his song, they are trying to present him as the most over guy in the company. Which I don't think would be the case without that song.

Maybe 6 years ago I would agree and maybe not entertained it but Cody is the best non-title wrestler there in his 30’s. WWE needs Cody more than vice versa. AJ prefers to be away from the spotlight now, he had his run. But I’d have liked to see him used like Shawn was in his twilight. AJ is still going so strong is ridiculous, I hope the break did him a world of good, can’t recall the last time before this period where he was inactive, despite his physical style, he has bumped so well in his career, and his athleticism plays a huge part. I’d love for him to get that final run with a belt but Hunter’s boy is going over, when was Seth last involved in a match, you had to see twice? it has been a while

 

[The_KING]

I can't believe that you would be saying this if you saw Brock v AJ, Survivor Series 2017.

Brock's growth as a worker has been incredible. He doesn't sell for everyone. But when he does, you jaw drops as a fan. That's how good he is. Not to mention, it means something because it doesn't happen against everyone and preserves his mystqiue.

I like Brock but I preferred his matches from his first run. He had a more varied moveset during 2002-04.

I don't doubt Brock's brilliance for one moment.

 

[The_KING]

His feud with Taker and Kurt during his first run were fantastic. Taker put him over perfectly. Then his feud with Kurt proved that he could swim with the sharks.

His iron man match with Kurt Angle on Smackdown is the greatest iron man match, in my opinion.

Brock and Taker had great chemistry in the ring too. The only bad match they had was the Wrestlemania match and that was due to Taker suffering a concussion early on.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

His iron man match with Kurt Angle on Smackdown is the greatest iron man match, in my opinion.

Brock and Taker had great chemistry in the ring too. The only bad match they had was the Wrestlemania match and that was due to Taker suffering a concussion early on.

Yes. Taker was basically just moving on instincts there. Taker vs Brock HIAC in 2003 was their best match.

I am not a fan of Iron man stipulation. Find the 60 min matches too long.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Maybe 6 years ago I would agree and maybe not entertained it but Cody is the best non-title wrestler there in his 30’s. WWE needs Cody more than vice versa. AJ prefers to be away from the spotlight now, he had his run. But I’d have liked to see him used like Shawn was in his twilight. AJ is still going so strong is ridiculous, I hope the break did him a world of good, can’t recall the last time before this period where he was inactive, despite his physical style, he has bumped so well in his career, and his athleticism plays a huge part. I’d love for him to get that final run with a belt but Hunter’s boy is going over, when was Seth last involved in a match, you had to see twice? it has been a while

Seth's problem is he wrestles at the same intensity all the time so his big matches don't have this big match feel. His best match of recent times was against Edge. The one against Roman was excellent too considering the mind games, how Rollins anticipated every Roman's move and how Roman sold the whole feud.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

The King is a lapsed fan, he is just starting to tune into product a bit more now I think so I get some of his points and popular topics from those days

Brock has been overly criticised since his return, for me, even without some of his high profile matches, he was wrestler of the decade 2010-2019 comfortably. There is stiff competition especially from AJ ironically for that gong. I think with Brock, and especially in this age, any change in mood is highly publicised. Brock‘s respect has to be earned, he’s a simple farmer. Given his stature, it was often forgotten that he never ever had an ego to match some of the big names in history. Hogan wouldn’t even do the job for HBK. One of the last stars in wrestling which loves the business truly and respects it in the ring through his outstanding work. Brock did what was asked of him ultimately.

One of my favorite stuff from Brock was him putting Ambrose in his place in their Mania match.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Maybe 6 years ago I would agree and maybe not entertained it but Cody is the best non-title wrestler there in his 30’s. WWE needs Cody more than vice versa. AJ prefers to be away from the spotlight now, he had his run. But I’d have liked to see him used like Shawn was in his twilight. AJ is still going so strong is ridiculous, I hope the break did him a world of good, can’t recall the last time before this period where he was inactive, despite his physical style, he has bumped so well in his career, and his athleticism plays a huge part. I’d love for him to get that final run with a belt but Hunter’s boy is going over, when was Seth last involved in a match, you had to see twice? it has been a while

And AJ hasn't brought half of his regular moveset to WWE, that's crazy. How awesome it would be to see a spiral tap from him

 

[shaz619]

And AJ hasn't brought half of his regular moveset to WWE, that's crazy. How awesome it would be to see a spiral tap from him

He stopped doing that move the OG way towards the end of his TNA run, he might have hit a variant of it in WWE during his first month or so on Smackdown. AJ is smart enough to realise it would be stupid to attempt the OG spiral tap, his body mass has changed, and so has his centre of gravity. Those spots were insane really, still hold up now, but over time, he has adjusted with changes to his body and more experience, becoming a more psychological worker

 

[shaz619]

Seth's problem is he wrestles at the same intensity all the time so his big matches don't have this big match feel. His best match of recent times was against Edge. The one against Roman was excellent too considering the mind games, how Rollins anticipated every Roman's move and how Roman sold the whole feud.

Both Roman and Edge made those matches, they’re on another level compared to Rollins, can have great matches even on a bad night. Rollins needs an opponent who is a level or two above him to have a decent match

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Both Roman and Edge made those matches, they’re on another level compared to Rollins, can have great matches even on a bad night. Rollins needs an opponent who is a level or two above him to have a decent match

Not necessarily. He is a good worker himself too. His selling is something that needs a lot of improvement. I hate the buckle bomb though. His feud with KO and subsequent tag team was fantastic. Seth vs Balor has been good every time. He's gotten pretty consistent in terms of giving good matches in last few years. Although he is definitely not at AJ's level and can't get a good match out of below average wrestlers like Jinder etc.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

He stopped doing that move the OG way towards the end of his TNA run, he might have hit a variant of it in WWE during his first month or so on Smackdown. AJ is smart enough to realise it would be stupid to attempt the OG spiral tap, his body mass has changed, and so has his centre of gravity. Those spots were insane really, still hold up now, but over time, he has adjusted with changes to his body and more experience, becoming a more psychological worker

During his heel run in last few years, AJ had stopped doing 450 too. But he's brought back since his face turn. Although I'm not expecting him to bring back Spiral Tap back considering how tough it is on the body and can cause permanent damage with slightest wrong foot.

I still think he's not shaken his ring rust off 100% yet. He rarely gets injured and this was the lengthiest period he was out of action in WWE.

 

[shaz619]

Not necessarily. He is a good worker himself too. His selling is something that needs a lot of improvement. I hate the buckle bomb though. His feud with KO and subsequent tag team was fantastic. Seth vs Balor has been good every time. He's gotten pretty consistent in terms of giving good matches in last few years. Although he is definitely not at AJ's level and can't get a good match out of below average wrestlers like Jinder etc.

In the confines of this era he is, but he isn’t on the level of the class from golden era of independent era. This is his ceiling, I don’t know if he will get better, there is no creativity in his matches

 

[shaz619]

During his heel run in last few years, AJ had stopped doing 450 too. But he's brought back since his face turn. Although I'm not expecting him to bring back Spiral Tap back considering how tough it is on the body and can cause permanent damage with slightest wrong foot.

I still think he's not shaken his ring rust off 100% yet. He rarely gets injured and this was the lengthiest period he was out of action in WWE.

You know what it is, I meant that AJ is not capable of performing the OG spiral tap, he risks severe injury. His body is not built for it, but he can do the modified variant for sure. Yes clever adjustments there

 

[The_KING]

And AJ hasn't brought half of his regular moveset to WWE, that's crazy. How awesome it would be to see a spiral tap from him

AJ is Mr TNA. His best run was in TNA.

 

[The_KING]

I am not a fan of Iron man stipulation. Find the 60 min matches too long.

I don’t mind them as long as we don’t get a bore 0-0 draw like we did in the Bret vs Shawn match at wrestlemania 12.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Maybe 6 years ago I would agree and maybe not entertained it but Cody is the best non-title wrestler there in his 30’s. WWE needs Cody more than vice versa. AJ prefers to be away from the spotlight now, he had his run. But I’d have liked to see him used like Shawn was in his twilight. AJ is still going so strong is ridiculous, I hope the break did him a world of good, can’t recall the last time before this period where he was inactive, despite his physical style, he has bumped so well in his career, and his athleticism plays a huge part. I’d love for him to get that final run with a belt but Hunter’s boy is going over, when was Seth last involved in a match, you had to see twice? it has been a while

Actually you're right. Cody's work in the ring has been astonishing ever sine he walked out onto WrestleMania. Even in nothing TV matches that nobody cares about, he makes you take notice. I can't even think of a bad Cody Rhodes match since he returned. He's definitely the best wrestler in the company right now.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I like Brock but I preferred his matches from his first run. He had a more varied moveset during 2002-04.

I don't doubt Brock's brilliance for one moment.

I get what you mean. And I agree with you to an extent. But at the same time, I think as a worker he has he has advanced miles and miles. He no longer has the personality of mailbox like he did in his first run. I mean he was utterly awful on promos. Also think that he gets the in-ring psychology part better than he ever did before.

He doesn't need to have 20 minute high workrate matches because that's not what his matches need to be. Like I said, they are like heavyweight boxing fights. High impact and over quicker than you expect.

Flair had the same type of match for decades. But that didn't mean he wasn't the best worker in the business. Because back then, that's exactly what was expected of a Ric Flair match.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

His iron man match with Kurt Angle on Smackdown is the greatest iron man match, in my opinion.

Brock and Taker had great chemistry in the ring too. The only bad match they had was the Wrestlemania match and that was due to Taker suffering a concussion early on.

Definitely concur on that. Although the recent Danielson v MJF match has to be up there among the best imo.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

The King is a lapsed fan, he is just starting to tune into product a bit more now I think so I get some of his points and popular topics from those days

Brock has been overly criticised since his return, for me, even without some of his high profile matches, he was wrestler of the decade 2010-2019 comfortably. There is stiff competition especially from AJ ironically for that gong. I think with Brock, and especially in this age, any change in mood is highly publicised. Brock‘s respect has to be earned, he’s a simple farmer. Given his stature, it was often forgotten that he never ever had an ego to match some of the big names in history. Hogan wouldn’t even do the job for HBK. One of the last stars in wrestling which loves the business truly and respects it in the ring through his outstanding work. Brock did what was asked of him ultimately.

Brock does not strike me as someone who loves the business. I mean its no secret that he never watched wrestling growing up, or was never even a fan. But that said, he's a professional, he is very smart and he was taught the business and given advice by some of the biggest and smartest minds in wrestling. People like Cornette, Mr. Perfect, Taker, Rock and Austin. That combined with years of experience has made Brock what he is today. Which is a wrestler unlike anyone we have ever seen in this business.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

In the confines of this era he is, but he isn’t on the level of the class from golden era of independent era. This is his ceiling, I don’t know if he will get better, there is no creativity in his matches

Think he'll remain as one of the very good wrestlers of the current era which is actually quite good considering he started out as an indie guy wrestling in gyms and stuff. He needs to add some more psychology in his matches like during his feud with Reigns last year.