The Wrestling Discussion Thread

In each role he was given he thrived, entertaining as a jobber in the spirit squad, got over in the mid to upper mid card and unfortunately as champion, he got injured and rubbed Vince the wrong way. We got an actual b!tch carrying the mens WHC and LGBTQ idiots like Balor get a push despite not achieving half of the compelling stories Dolph has been involved in. Bro if those neck beards tried , they would get killed; he had a glittering amateur wrestling career at the collegiate level, it’s funny this never gets mentioned in the WWE. But one criticism I do agree with is, he should have gone out and stood up for himself or left sooner (he needs to explain this?), plenty of inferior hacks since him have had the rub of the green, somebody like Big E became champion and all he was good at was moving his jugs, and Seth can’t cut a promo to save his life, I still don’t know what his gimmick is after 10 years and he got a title. Anyway, a lot of guys who left reinvented themselves in TNA and his booking already is better than what I’ve seen in WWE in recent times, Mustafa Ali is doing some sort of Trump gimmick and he won his first major title in NA on debut! whoever is the booker in TNA right now is cooking!
That’s what I’m sayin man! He should’ve realized his worth long ago.

He can play 50 different characters, he’s far from one dimensional, has the in ring skill, but he just overstayed in WWE too long for them to not put respect on his name
 
That’s what I’m sayin man! He should’ve realized his worth long ago.

He can play 50 different characters, he’s far from one dimensional, has the in ring skill, but he just overstayed in WWE too long for them to not put respect on his name

The only reason I can think he stayed there so long is the money but man the work must have been hard and the crap creative, btw the heel champion in TNA is using your narrative to attack Ziggler. But we need to find out from him. On the flip side, look he could have left like Carlito and still be in the same sort of position, he got a name to capitalise on through working for a big platform. But totally agree he should have got the danda out on the booking team at the time
 
The only reason I can think he stayed there so long is the money but man the work must have been hard and the crap creative, btw the heel champion in TNA is using your narrative to attack Ziggler. But we need to find out from him. On the flip side, look he could have left like Carlito and still be in the same sort of position, he got a name to capitalise on through working for a big platform. But totally agree he should have got the danda out on the booking team at the time
Btw Carlito when I ran into him at the gym couple of times few years ago used to tell me how he hated people coming up to him these days and going “wow you’re in great shape now!!” He was like “what? I wasn’t in shape before?! Wth y’all talking about?!”

ofc I didn’t want the apple nor the backstabber, but wanted to say yeah man you definitely are in better shape now 💀
 
Ziggler started as a jobber and ended as a jobber. Don’t care how much he is adored, he should’ve drawn the line long ago that I’m not going to job for inferior talent, GIVE ME WHAT I DESERVE!! mentality. Instead he got tossed around the ring by every random civilian to ever be signed on by WWE. Am frankly surprised people in the crowd didn’t get to put him in a sleeper hold or hit him with a DDT seeing as he was getting beaten up by everyone else already. May as well let 12 year old Joe in front row aisle have a go as well.

He has far more ability than what he allowed himself to be booked in.

I think Ziggler is heavily overrated. Quite honestly I find the comparisons to Mr. Perfect to be ludicrous. Ziggler was a guy with a role. He was good at getting guys over but he was never World Champion material. The biggest reason he survived this long was because he was happy doing his job, making big money and wasn't as ambitious as the top guys. And while he was pretty good in the ring I don't feel like he had the personality, gimmick or mic skills to remain successful at the top. He is a former World Champion though and probably very rich so I wouldn't feel too bad for him.
 
I personally forgive Jack Perry and dislike Adam Page more, without Jacky boy, we wouldn’t have got Punk back in the WWE set up.

But on the flip side it’s bad for AEW because he made their programming so much better as a whole.

This is the result of incompetence, Tony books his shows for hipster smarks and the AEW fans who post on X. They will defend the product to death and it doesn’t matter if the promotion is dwindling because he pays everybody so well and we should appreciate that even if the product is terrible. There’s no denying it’s a Disney Land for wrestlers and especially for anybody looking to retire.

What I don't understand is how any self-respecting AEW fan can possibly like Jack Perry after he not only cost him their biggest draw but also ensured that 'that biggest draw' ended up on the opposition's side.

As for Page, I don't hate him as much. More than anything, I enjoy him reaching his true mediocrity. And hey, atleast he looks like a real wrestler unlike Perry
 
Nobody moves the needle quiet like Punk, sure Okada, Sasha and Ospreay got some interest. But man I don’t think they appreciate what Punk was doing for their business from the ground up. @RedwoodOriginal
Honestly all of this feels like a sad attempt to recreate the excitement around the debut of Punk in AEW, which will forever go down as one of the very best pro-wrestling returns ever. Think back to where AEW was in late 2021...there was so much excitement around the product. They sold the freaking United Center on a rumor. And not just that, the TV viewership was significantly higher, the crowds were bigger and hotter, the PPV buys were growing...the Punk segments and matches got you so excited for Dynamite and even Rampage sometimes.

All of this pales in comparison to that.
 
For monetary benefit it’s worth going to AEW.

For creative direction, growth, legacy and making stimulating content it’s a big no no.

When I think of MCMG I get nostalgic, do I really want to see them have cold matches non-stop before getting fed to the Bucks? they need to get FTR out of their to, I guess you could say they might want to bring them in to work with FTR but I am down on the promotion as whole.

Not saying talent should go to WWE if not AEW, but there are better alternatives then AEW at the moment.

I wish TNA acquired the NWA license again, because the NWA world championship and tag team championships are arguably the most prestigious in the business and deserve more respect. Unfortunately NWA Powerr has been riddled with controversies and incompetent promoting to and has seen big names leave them.

I got ‘Perc’ Angle vibes with the Nic Nemeth debut, the crowd seemed genuinely shocked, how rare is that in this age. I think with Nec he should get a similar push to Angle in 06
I dunno, I don't think its that bad from a creative direction POV. I mean don't get me wrong. They will be booked badly because Tony. But MCMG v FTR, c'mon who wouldn't want to see that? They could actually get a good match out of The Young Bucks too. And there are other match-ups for them too with Blackpool Combat Club, House of Black and the younger teams. Thing is, I don't see alot of other options for them besides the indies. If they decide to leave TNA.

I dunno about TNA and NWA. I think TNA's hardcore fanbase would want their belt. NWA is Corgan's passion project and I don't see how he would give that up, given all the money he has spent, unless ofcourse it is taken from him.
 
Honestly all of this feels like a sad attempt to recreate the excitement around the debut of Punk in AEW, which will forever go down as one of the very best pro-wrestling returns ever. Think back to where AEW was in late 2021...there was so much excitement around the product. They sold the freaking United Center on a rumor. And not just that, the TV viewership was significantly higher, the crowds were bigger and hotter, the PPV buys were growing...the Punk segments and matches got you so excited for Dynamite and even Rampage sometimes.

All of this pales in comparison to that.

Don’t forget the higher ups agreed to a new live AEW TV show and a big part of that was Punk, that’s nuts bro, One Bill Phil !! Collision was supposed to all the things which Dynamite couldn’t be and introduce some healthy competition
 
Don’t forget the higher ups agreed to a new live AEW TV show and a big part of that was Punk, that’s nuts bro, One Bill Phil !! Collision was supposed to all the things which Dynamite couldn’t be and introduce some healthy competition
Collision was such a breath of fresh air when it first came on as the CM Punk Show. That show flowed so smoothly. It had great wrestling but also a coherent progression from segment to segment. Till Punk was there, it was serving as a counterpoint to Dynamite by offering a very different pro-wrestling show. Now it just feels like the B show. Nothing newsworthy ever happens on it. You get the obligatory Edge promo and the obligatory Bryan Danielson dream match and that's it. Whole lotta nothing in between.
 
@shaz619 Found this great channel on YouTube. The guy basically makes wrestling docs. predominantly puroresu. But he also did this great video on Eddie's indie run.


This guy has been around for a long time doing videos on All Japan but he did them on his Patreon channel. I think he recently started posting on YouTube.
 
@shaz619 This is so funny and interesting. I had no idea Pakistan had its very own Great Khali :ROFLMAO:


You could say that the guy was a trail-blazer for someone like Khali. He paved the road Khali limped on :ROFLMAO:
 
@shaz619 Found this great channel on YouTube. The guy basically makes wrestling docs. predominantly puroresu. But he also did this great video on Eddie's indie run.


This guy has been around for a long time doing videos on All Japan but he did them on his Patreon channel. I think he recently started posting on YouTube.

I will check this out am glad someone has made a video on this because a small group of people will remember Eddie’s run on the indies, on the Wrestling Channel in the UK (incidentally Ospreay was watching this at the same time as me) the match he had with Punk use to come on weekly from the pre-taped ROH shows. Eddie was on another level, he was warming up for another run his prep was nuts, and this was him in 2nd gear lol everybody else had to find a 7th gear to keep up. The indies were not beneath him and he recognised good talent.

I honestly think if he had that match with Shawn it would have been the greatest of all time.
 
Ziggler started as a jobber and ended as a jobber. Don’t care how much he is adored, he should’ve drawn the line long ago that I’m not going to job for inferior talent, GIVE ME WHAT I DESERVE!! mentality. Instead he got tossed around the ring by every random civilian to ever be signed on by WWE. Am frankly surprised people in the crowd didn’t get to put him in a sleeper hold or hit him with a DDT seeing as he was getting beaten up by everyone else already. May as well let 12 year old Joe in front row aisle have a go as well.

He has far more ability than what he allowed himself to be booked in.
He was given a very contract by WWE in terms of money and free days to do his stand up comedy shows. He said that back in 2018 or 19 that he was one foot out of the door of WWE but they offered him a great contract that suited him very well.
 
Honestly all of this feels like a sad attempt to recreate the excitement around the debut of Punk in AEW, which will forever go down as one of the very best pro-wrestling returns ever. Think back to where AEW was in late 2021...there was so much excitement around the product. They sold the freaking United Center on a rumor. And not just that, the TV viewership was significantly higher, the crowds were bigger and hotter, the PPV buys were growing...the Punk segments and matches got you so excited for Dynamite and even Rampage sometimes.

All of this pales in comparison to that.
Sasha and Ospreay aren't draws except for their 1000 cult fans on twitter.
Okada as great as he is, is yet to prove himself as a draw in NA. I don't think any Japanese wrestler has achieved that feet yet maybe apart from Inoki.
 
I think Ziggler is heavily overrated. Quite honestly I find the comparisons to Mr. Perfect to be ludicrous. Ziggler was a guy with a role. He was good at getting guys over but he was never World Champion material. The biggest reason he survived this long was because he was happy doing his job, making big money and wasn't as ambitious as the top guys. And while he was pretty good in the ring I don't feel like he had the personality, gimmick or mic skills to remain successful at the top. He is a former World Champion though and probably very rich so I wouldn't feel too bad for him.
Things fell off for him once WWE decided him to make an HBK chinese version. He cut some of his best promos against Miz, Drew and Kofi even when his character had lost all the steam.
 
Sasha and Ospreay aren't draws except for their 1000 cult fans on twitter.
Okada as great as he is, is yet to prove himself as a draw in NA. I don't think any Japanese wrestler has achieved that feet yet maybe apart from Inoki.

All things considered I think Nakamura has done a terrific job (he was also humble enough to work in NXT which helped him massively), when we say ‘draw’ I think the minimum should be being ‘known’ , selling a decent portion of tickets ‘consistently’ and growing your fanbase substantially opposed to the next Hogan.

However, do I see any of those guys as bigger draws then Nakamura? probably not.

I think TNA were terrible at PPV’s but consistently got decent amount of eyeballs on their product (more than AEW), certainly during their peak; so when the fans recognised a once in a generation performer like Styles etc it did amazing for his profile, despite the shambolic booking.

AEW don’t have the same sustained eyes on them, their booking is horrid and some of those names while good don’t have the same notoriety as the potential HOF talent from the golden generation of independent wrestling
 
I think Ziggler is heavily overrated. Quite honestly I find the comparisons to Mr. Perfect to be ludicrous. Ziggler was a guy with a role. He was good at getting guys over but he was never World Champion material. The biggest reason he survived this long was because he was happy doing his job, making big money and wasn't as ambitious as the top guys. And while he was pretty good in the ring I don't feel like he had the personality, gimmick or mic skills to remain successful at the top. He is a former World Champion though and probably very rich so I wouldn't feel too bad for him.

Things fell off for him once WWE decided him to make an HBK chinese version. He cut some of his best promos against Miz, Drew and Kofi even when his character had lost all the steam.

I don’t know about Mr. Perfect but everyone and their dog got compared to Shawn once he retired, nobody will ever be like him, it hurts talent more to carry that Shawn chip on their shoulder.

Yes, Seth, Balor and others could never dream of cutting those promos in similar programmes. He had an uncanny knack of sucking you in and I’d say the last 1/4 of his career in WWE he was doing some of the best work of his career. He is worthy of the WHC then someone like Seth, who I would credit for having more ambition but he had the backing of management from day one and is a big time Triple H stooge.
 
Sasha and Ospreay aren't draws except for their 1000 cult fans on twitter.
Okada as great as he is, is yet to prove himself as a draw in NA. I don't think any Japanese wrestler has achieved that feet yet maybe apart from Inoki.

Sasha is a bigger name then both Okada and Ospreay combined in America and probably Europe to, however if you want to see the best example of AEW diluting your abilities; just see the state of Edge over there…
 
All things considered I think Nakamura has done a terrific job (he was also humble enough to work in NXT which helped him massively), when we say ‘draw’ I think the minimum should be being ‘known’ , selling a decent portion of tickets ‘consistently’ and growing your fanbase substantially opposed to the next Hogan.

However, do I see any of those guys as bigger draws then Nakamura? probably not.

I think TNA were terrible at PPV’s but consistently got decent amount of eyeballs on their product (more than AEW), certainly during their peak; so when the fans recognised a once in a generation performer like Styles etc it did amazing for his profile, despite the shambolic booking.

AEW don’t have the same sustained eyes on them, their booking is horrid and some of those names while good don’t have the same notoriety as the potential HOF talent from the golden generation of independent wrestling
AJ in TNA was a different beast. He was a newbie there who could keep up with prime Angle. His success worldwide and especially in WWE is not really atypical in retrospect.
 
Sasha is a bigger name then both Okada and Ospreay combined in America and probably Europe to, however if you want to see the best example of AEW diluting your abilities; just see the state of Edge over there…
Sasha's mainstream success is due to WWE but her mark fans want you to think she's the biggest draw of all time and her drawing ability is comparable to the likes of Cena, Randy etc which is totally nonsense. Even during her tenure in WWE, her fanbase was the most overboard and idiotic like hardcore indie fans that we currently see in majority of AEW fans. It's not strange that she has ended up in AEW. A perfect blend of overhypers.
 
All things considered I think Nakamura has done a terrific job (he was also humble enough to work in NXT which helped him massively), when we say ‘draw’ I think the minimum should be being ‘known’ , selling a decent portion of tickets ‘consistently’ and growing your fanbase substantially opposed to the next Hogan.

However, do I see any of those guys as bigger draws then Nakamura? probably not.

I think TNA were terrible at PPV’s but consistently got decent amount of eyeballs on their product (more than AEW), certainly during their peak; so when the fans recognised a once in a generation performer like Styles etc it did amazing for his profile, despite the shambolic booking.

AEW don’t have the same sustained eyes on them, their booking is horrid and some of those names while good don’t have the same notoriety as the potential HOF talent from the golden generation of independent wrestling
Also Nakamura said that he has no regrets about leaving NJPW and going to WWE. He said that it was a big decision to permanently move to US but it's something him and his family are satisfied with.
 
Sasha's mainstream success is due to WWE but her mark fans want you to think she's the biggest draw of all time and her drawing ability is comparable to the likes of Cena, Randy etc which is totally nonsense. Even during her tenure in WWE, her fanbase was the most overboard and idiotic like hardcore indie fans that we currently see in majority of AEW fans. It's not strange that she has ended up in AEW. A perfect blend of overhypers.

It is stupid to compare the drawing power with Cena I don’t know who has said that because I don’t see it often, don’t use that argument to downplay what an asset she was to the womens division as a draw and one of the most technically sound in-ring performers. She at least has delivered the goods for WWE and warrants the hype, the african american fans rally behind her because they feel she didn’t get the rub of the green consistently enough and feel a lot of the overboard criticism is to do with her race. There’s an increasing trend of coloured people who are a bit fiery, there’s a large group of people who don’t like that do they
 
AJ in TNA was a different beast. He was a newbie there who could keep up with prime Angle. His success worldwide and especially in WWE is not really atypical in retrospect.

To their fans, Ospreay et al is the AJ of this gen and actually worse; the best of all time
 
It is stupid to compare the drawing power with Cena I don’t know who has said that because I don’t see it often, don’t use that argument to downplay what an asset she was to the womens division as a draw and one of the most technically sound in-ring performers. She at least has delivered the goods for WWE and warrants the hype, the african american fans rally behind her because they feel she didn’t get the rub of the green consistently enough and feel a lot of the overboard criticism is to do with her race. There’s an increasing trend of coloured people who are a bit fiery, there’s a large group of people who don’t like that do they
Just saying what her hardcore fanbase thinks of her. She definitely was brilliant in terms of delivering good matches. I'd say she was probably the most consistent female wrestler during her time in WWE. But if you go on social media, you'd clearly see the kind of statements her hardcore fanbase makes on daily basis.
 
To their fans, Ospreay et al is the AJ of this gen and actually worse; the best of all time
I don't think Ospreay has that big of a fanbase to actually have these opinions come out regularly. The people who believe in this stuff are usually followers of Meltzer, whose fanbase is just as stupid as him.
 
I don't think Ospreay has that big of a fanbase to actually have these opinions come out regularly. The people who believe in this stuff are usually followers of Meltzer, whose fanbase is just as stupid as him.

They are vocal on social media due to Meltzer he is moulding his next cash cow after milking Kenny
 
Just saying what her hardcore fanbase thinks of her. She definitely was brilliant in terms of delivering good matches. I'd say she was probably the most consistent female wrestler during her time in WWE. But if you go on social media, you'd clearly see the kind of statements her hardcore fanbase makes on daily basis.

Her rivalry with Charlotte is epic, they had some seriously physical matches which put the division on the map.

It’s best to ignore that minority nonsense and focus on the mastery between the ropes
 
Also Nakamura said that he has no regrets about leaving NJPW and going to WWE. He said that it was a big decision to permanently move to US but it's something him and his family are satisfied with.

Nakamura was tired doing jobs for Okada and Tanahashi, it made him hate Japan to
 

WWE RAW Card for March 25, 2024 Episode:​

  • Andrade vs. Ivar
  • Ricochet vs. JD McDonagh
  • Ivy Nile vs. Candice LeRae
  • Sami Zayn vs. “Big” Bronson Reed
  • Jey Uso vs. Shinsuke Nakamura
  • CM Punk returns
 

WWE RAW Card for March 25, 2024 Episode:​

  • Andrade vs. Ivar
  • Ricochet vs. JD McDonagh
  • Ivy Nile vs. Candice LeRae
  • Sami Zayn vs. “Big” Bronson Reed
  • Jey Uso vs. Shinsuke Nakamura
  • CM Punk returns

While it was a stretch I speculated if Punk’s injury was a shoot or the severity at least.

I am hoping he is going to be involved at Wrestlemania in any capacity really!

But am predicting he gets added to the Drew and Seth match, making it a triple threat!
 
Boy, what a Raw. Perfection. One of the very best in recent years. The unbridled promos from Drew, Punk and Seth, the whole segment was fantastic and felt real. Andrade vs Vinci was a brilliant physical match, even Vinci looked great in defeat there.
Sami, Gable segment and Sami losing to Bronson Reed. A well done touch. Jey had a very good match with Nakamura. How Nakamura has remained relevant in all these years despite acting as the guy to elevate others is quite telling of his presence.

And boy oh boy, the ending. Cody beating up Jimmy and Solo by himself and then succumbing to The Rock, perfect selling.

Dwayne is playing his final boss character with complete ownership of this role. The way he beat up Cody, to his trash talking, there was no sign of jolly catchphrase guy Dwayne here. It was pure intensity and aura. He's still got it.

The only downside of The Rock's sheer brilliance is that it has taken the heat away from Roman and Cody to the point Roman looks like a tamed kitten in his presence. And Roman is the guy who's oozed the most dominant presence in WWE since 2020 apart from Brock. That just tells you just how good The Rock is at pro wrestling stuff.

@shaz619 @RedwoodOriginal @Suleiman
 
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Boy, what a Raw. Perfection. One of the very best in recent years. The unbridled promos from Drew, Punk and Seth, the whole segment was fantastic and felt real. Andrade vs Vinci was a brilliant physical match, even Vinci looked great in defeat there.
Sami, Gable segment and Sami losing to Bronson Reed. A well done touch. Jey had a very good match with Nakamura. How Nakamura has remained relevant in all these years despite acting as the guy to elevate others is quite telling of his presence.
And boy oh boy, the ending. Cody beating up Jimmy and Solo by himself and then succumbing to The Rock, perfect selling. Dwayne is playing his final boss character with complete ownership of this role. The way he beat up Cody, to his trash talking, there was no sign of jolly catchphrase guy Dwayne here. It was pure intensity and aura. He's still got it.
The only downside of The Rock's sheer brilliance is that it has taken the heat away from Roman and Cody to the point Roman looks like a tamed kitten in his presence. And Roman is the guy who's oozed the most dominant presence in WWE since 2020 apart from Brock. That just tells you just how good The Rock is at pro wrestling stuff.
@shaz619 @RedwoodOriginal @Suleiman

Best episode of RAW I’ve seen in a while, WM main events are shaping up to be dramatic, if you’re going to overbook; you do it at Mania and go all out.

The Rock has made it his mission from the start to get as much heat on Cody possible, and after last night, I think they got very close to that. The final segment was beautiful barbarianism, the beatdown in the rain, the chill in the air to the point you could see Dwyane’s breath, Cody beaten to a pulp and laying there is a pool of his own blood was masterful, we just needed Reigns to show up at the end as the architect of that beatdown because I fear he is being overshadowed by his cousin.

Punk created magic on the mic and that heated exchange with Drew was brilliant, there was even a Jim Cornette reference in there! I really hope Drew squashes Seth, because Punk/Drew for the title is a great programme for 2024.

When the WWE get it right, nobody does it better.
 
Best episode of RAW I’ve seen in a while, WM main events are shaping up to be dramatic, if you’re going to overbook; you do it at Mania and go all out.

The Rock has made it his mission from the start to get as much heat on Cody possible, and after last night, I think they got very close to that. The final segment was beautiful barbarianism, the beatdown in the rain, the chill in the air to the point you could see Dwyane’s breath, Cody beaten to a pulp and laying there is a pool of his own blood was masterful, we just needed Reigns to show up at the end as the architect of that beatdown because I fear he is being overshadowed by his cousin.

Punk created magic on the mic and that heated exchange with Drew was brilliant, there was even a Jim Cornette reference in there! I really hope Drew squashes Seth, because Punk/Drew for the title is a great programme for 2024.

When the WWE get it right, nobody does it better.
Roman looks like a kitty right now. This character of Rock is unlike his all other characters. He is dangerous, powerful, intense and serious. They played it up extremely well with Cody singlehandedly beating Solo and Jimmy, and as soon as The Rock lands his first punch, it's over for Cody. The whole angle was done perfectly.
The only person that can unnerve the final boss is Austin now. If he does make his appearance at Mania, it will be explosive.
 
Best episode of RAW I’ve seen in a while, WM main events are shaping up to be dramatic, if you’re going to overbook; you do it at Mania and go all out.

The Rock has made it his mission from the start to get as much heat on Cody possible, and after last night, I think they got very close to that. The final segment was beautiful barbarianism, the beatdown in the rain, the chill in the air to the point you could see Dwyane’s breath, Cody beaten to a pulp and laying there is a pool of his own blood was masterful, we just needed Reigns to show up at the end as the architect of that beatdown because I fear he is being overshadowed by his cousin.

Punk created magic on the mic and that heated exchange with Drew was brilliant, there was even a Jim Cornette reference in there! I really hope Drew squashes Seth, because Punk/Drew for the title is a great programme for 2024.
And even the matches were awesome. Ricochet looked the hottest he's ever in his WWE career. Andrade vs Vinci was pretty good as well.
 
Boy, what a Raw. Perfection. One of the very best in recent years. The unbridled promos from Drew, Punk and Seth, the whole segment was fantastic and felt real. Andrade vs Vinci was a brilliant physical match, even Vinci looked great in defeat there.
Sami, Gable segment and Sami losing to Bronson Reed. A well done touch. Jey had a very good match with Nakamura. How Nakamura has remained relevant in all these years despite acting as the guy to elevate others is quite telling of his presence.
And boy oh boy, the ending. Cody beating up Jimmy and Solo by himself and then succumbing to The Rock, perfect selling. Dwayne is playing his final boss character with complete ownership of this role. The way he beat up Cody, to his trash talking, there was no sign of jolly catchphrase guy Dwayne here. It was pure intensity and aura. He's still got it.
The only downside of The Rock's sheer brilliance is that it has taken the heat away from Roman and Cody to the point Roman looks like a tamed kitten in his presence. And Roman is the guy who's oozed the most dominant presence in WWE since 2020 apart from Brock. That just tells you just how good The Rock is at pro wrestling stuff.
@shaz619 @RedwoodOriginal @Suleiman
incredible. Reminded me of when Rock tortured Mankind. He’s going to his roots while keeping it fresh with a more dark undertone.
 
Boy, what a Raw. Perfection. One of the very best in recent years. The unbridled promos from Drew, Punk and Seth, the whole segment was fantastic and felt real. Andrade vs Vinci was a brilliant physical match, even Vinci looked great in defeat there.
Sami, Gable segment and Sami losing to Bronson Reed. A well done touch. Jey had a very good match with Nakamura. How Nakamura has remained relevant in all these years despite acting as the guy to elevate others is quite telling of his presence.
And boy oh boy, the ending. Cody beating up Jimmy and Solo by himself and then succumbing to The Rock, perfect selling. Dwayne is playing his final boss character with complete ownership of this role. The way he beat up Cody, to his trash talking, there was no sign of jolly catchphrase guy Dwayne here. It was pure intensity and aura. He's still got it.
The only downside of The Rock's sheer brilliance is that it has taken the heat away from Roman and Cody to the point Roman looks like a tamed kitten in his presence. And Roman is the guy who's oozed the most dominant presence in WWE since 2020 apart from Brock. That just tells you just how good The Rock is at pro wrestling stuff.
@shaz619 @RedwoodOriginal @Suleiman
What an episode. One of the very best episodes of RAW or any wrestling show that I've seen in a very long time. First off, Punk's promo was wild. I still can't believe he referenced Cornette and Vince. Infact the entire segment was excellent. Seth (when he got serious) and Drew (to a great extent) held their own eventhough they were not on Punk's level. All in all, they succeeded in adding more interest in this match, which was needed since it was clearly being overshadowed by two much bigger matches.

And then there was the show closing angle. Holy s**t. This was absolutely incredible. The best thing I can say about it is that it felt real. Not to sound like a mark, but as a wrestling fan I was able to lose myself in it and genuinely despise The Rock in that moment. The Rock is doing some of the very best work of his career. The final boss is the villain wrestling needed. @shaz619 described the angle better than I ever could. The image of The Rock standing over Cody's bloodied, lifeless body in the rain was pretty unforgettable. This was pure cinema.

If that wasn't enough we had Ricochet vs. JD as well which was an awesome, fast-paced match that went by in a flash.
 
Best episode of RAW I’ve seen in a while, WM main events are shaping up to be dramatic, if you’re going to overbook; you do it at Mania and go all out.

The Rock has made it his mission from the start to get as much heat on Cody possible, and after last night, I think they got very close to that. The final segment was beautiful barbarianism, the beatdown in the rain, the chill in the air to the point you could see Dwyane’s breath, Cody beaten to a pulp and laying there is a pool of his own blood was masterful, we just needed Reigns to show up at the end as the architect of that beatdown because I fear he is being overshadowed by his cousin.

Punk created magic on the mic and that heated exchange with Drew was brilliant, there was even a Jim Cornette reference in there! I really hope Drew squashes Seth, because Punk/Drew for the title is a great programme for 2024.

When the WWE get it right, nobody does it better.
I don't buy that The Rock overshadowing Roman isn't by design. Either they are going to use this for the eventual Rock-Roman feud or Roman is going to have to top this on the go-home show.
 
I don't buy that The Rock overshadowing Roman isn't by design. Either they are going to use this for the eventual Rock-Roman feud or Roman is going to have to top this on the go-home show.

I agree, I meant it could have been done in a way where that tension is still there if that makes sense.
 
What an episode. One of the very best episodes of RAW or any wrestling show that I've seen in a very long time. First off, Punk's promo was wild. I still can't believe he referenced Cornette and Vince. Infact the entire segment was excellent. Seth (when he got serious) and Drew (to a great extent) held their own eventhough they were not on Punk's level. All in all, they succeeded in adding more interest in this match, which was needed since it was clearly being overshadowed by two much bigger matches.

And then there was the show closing angle. Holy s**t. This was absolutely incredible. The best thing I can say about it is that it felt real. Not to sound like a mark, but as a wrestling fan I was able to lose myself in it and genuinely despise The Rock in that moment. The Rock is doing some of the very best work of his career. The final boss is the villain wrestling needed. @shaz619 described the angle better than I ever could. The image of The Rock standing over Cody's bloodied, lifeless body in the rain was pretty unforgettable. This was pure cinema.

If that wasn't enough we had Ricochet vs. JD as well which was an awesome, fast-paced match that went by in a flash.

Man why can’t Dwyane make movies like this lol he clearly got the pedigree, he was like them old school mob bosses sending out a message to their rivals by being forced to get their hands dirty and taking it too far, plus he got the build for it, that slow methodical Samoan Killer, taking his time and enjoying his work.

Apparently the Punk segment bought in half a million viewers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! don’t @ this man , JC will really enjoy this plug for his pod 🤣🤣
 
JC is a pro at least and can be diplomatic so it doesn’t take away from his shows.

@RedwoodOriginal But Brian Last is a personified Zionist scumbag
 
I agree, I meant it could have been done in a way where that tension is still there if that makes sense.
I can see what you mean by that. I wonder what they have planned for Mania Night One. I can honestly see this going either way with Cody/Seth or Roman/Rock winning.

On one hand, just based on the amount of Roman matches I have seen where the Bloodline interferes, I would love to just see a 30 minute classic where Cody beats Roman clean. But then on the other hand, the prospect of The Rock and The Bloodline interfering and Cody still winning is also quite interesting and unpredictable. And if you're looking at making Cody as the ultimate babyface maybe The Rock/Roman winning is the way to so.

Super pumped and excited for Mania this year. More excited than I have been in a long time.
 
JC is a pro at least and can be diplomatic so it doesn’t take away from his shows.

@RedwoodOriginal But Brian Last is a personified Zionist scumbag
Tbh both of them have been espousing Zionist propaganda on their show. I think Cornette just by being ignorant and Last for sure is a Zionist. Its really unfortunate because now even people who used to be soft on Israel are acknowledging and condemning Israel's atrocities.

Personally, I can still enjoy their shows while putting that aspect aside. But I completely understand if you or other people wouldn't want to hear any of these guys again.
 
@shaz619 Punk is not just the best in the business right now in every aspect of being a pro-wrestler, but the guy is also a elite level troll (no pun intended). :ROFLMAO:

First he references Cornette and you know that probably just had to have driven some of the AEW marks mad...on a segment that drew 2.2 million viewers, mind you. That's a freaking draw for you.


Meanwhile Drew is posting pictures at Mindy's Bakery in Chicago and talking about how Punk's body is made of glass in interviews. :ROFLMAO:

These guys are doing incredible work. My hats off to them. Especially Drew who is taking this to the next level on social media. The funniest thing about it all is that WWE is getting more out of Brawl Out than AEW ever did. The opportunity was right there for AEW to do one of the hottest feuds and angles in the recent history of wrestling and they blew it because a couple of kids were mad that they got their a** kicked and wouldn't put it aside to do business.
 
Man why can’t Dwyane make movies like this lol he clearly got the pedigree, he was like them old school mob bosses sending out a message to their rivals by being forced to get their hands dirty and taking it too far, plus he got the build for it, that slow methodical Samoan Killer, taking his time and enjoying his work.

Apparently the Punk segment bought in half a million viewers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! don’t @ this man , JC will really enjoy this plug for his pod 🤣🤣
I honestly don't know because all his movies have sucked. Maybe its the roles he gets. They all seem to be one-dimensional action roles. I will say I have some hope from the Mark Kerr biopic he's doing. A24, as a studio has a pretty good track-record of producing some great movies so let's see how that turns out. But yes, he was absolutely incredible here. The face of evil.

So I just rechecked and you're right it wasn't 2.2 million viewers. I read an incorrect source. But still that's a heck of a number! And JC lmao, he couldn't have asked for a better advertisement of his show. I was fairly certain that Punk was a listener because he made a Cornette reference on Rampage a couple of years ago. But it was great to see a more direct one on freaking RAW of all places!
 
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Roman looks like a kitty right now. This character of Rock is unlike his all other characters. He is dangerous, powerful, intense and serious. They played it up extremely well with Cody singlehandedly beating Solo and Jimmy, and as soon as The Rock lands his first punch, it's over for Cody. The whole angle was done perfectly.
The only person that can unnerve the final boss is Austin now. If he does make his appearance at Mania, it will be explosive.
Roman definitely needs to do something dastardly before Mania to get some of the heat back on him. And I think they know it. So let's see what they do in New York next week on the go-home show.

I wouldn't want them to muck it up by getting to many people involved in this. Austin coming in to do anything has to make sense. Otherwise it would be detrimental to all the work they have done for over 2 years.
 
I will check this out am glad someone has made a video on this because a small group of people will remember Eddie’s run on the indies, on the Wrestling Channel in the UK (incidentally Ospreay was watching this at the same time as me) the match he had with Punk use to come on weekly from the pre-taped ROH shows. Eddie was on another level, he was warming up for another run his prep was nuts, and this was him in 2nd gear lol everybody else had to find a 7th gear to keep up. The indies were not beneath him and he recognised good talent.

I honestly think if he had that match with Shawn it would have been the greatest of all time.
Eddie during that 2001-02 period was honestly at the peak of his career. He was incredible in WCW too but I think by this point he had gotten alot of the character aspect down to a T and physically he was in great shape and didn't look like a cruiserweight anymore. And he hadn't gotten as big as he did by '04 either when he started working a more ground-based and limited style. It's a shame that he struggled with substance abuse issues during this time because performance-wise he was unlike anyone in the business. The SmackDown Six era ofcourse is infamous and he was a big part of that. But I went back and saw some of his matches on the indies too against Punk, Rey, Punk & Rey, Low-Ki, Super Crazy, Doug Williams and they were a real treat.

And yeah, such a shame that we couldn't get that dream match. Out of curiosity, what is your favorite Eddie Guerrero match? For me its the Mask v Title match that he and Rey had at Halloween Havoc 1997.
 
I can see what you mean by that. I wonder what they have planned for Mania Night One. I can honestly see this going either way with Cody/Seth or Roman/Rock winning.

On one hand, just based on the amount of Roman matches I have seen where the Bloodline interferes, I would love to just see a 30 minute classic where Cody beats Roman clean. But then on the other hand, the prospect of The Rock and The Bloodline interfering and Cody still winning is also quite interesting and unpredictable. And if you're looking at making Cody as the ultimate babyface maybe The Rock/Roman winning is the way to so.

Super pumped and excited for Mania this year. More excited than I have been in a long time.
I think the night 1 mainevent will have Rock Roman winning with probably Rock getting a pin on Cody. And it will be Bloodline rules match at Night 2. And we know for certain that Jimmy, Solo and Rock will be interfering on Roman's behalf, maybe even Drew. For Cody, it will probably be Jey, Seth, Cena and Austin (I don't think the pic of Cena and Austin on the truck was accidental). And yes all the Roman's matches have featured interferences but what will even the odds will be Cody having a backup in equal numbers. And Rock is a big fan of Attitude Era which had interferences mayhem etc as the norm.
 
Eddie during that 2001-02 period was honestly at the peak of his career. He was incredible in WCW too but I think by this point he had gotten alot of the character aspect down to a T and physically he was in great shape and didn't look like a cruiserweight anymore. And he hadn't gotten as big as he did by '04 either when he started working a more ground-based and limited style. It's a shame that he struggled with substance abuse issues during this time because performance-wise he was unlike anyone in the business. The SmackDown Six era ofcourse is infamous and he was a big part of that. But I went back and saw some of his matches on the indies too against Punk, Rey, Punk & Rey, Low-Ki, Super Crazy, Doug Williams and they were a real treat.

And yeah, such a shame that we couldn't get that dream match. Out of curiosity, what is your favorite Eddie Guerrero match? For me its the Mask v Title match that he and Rey had at Halloween Havoc 1997.
Have you looked how big AJ has gotten recently. He's looking like a proper jacked heavyweight these days. I really hope it's not the steroids.
Eddie and Benoit definitely used them, and it messed their bodies and mind leading to premature deaths.
 
@shaz619 Punk is not just the best in the business right now in every aspect of being a pro-wrestler, but the guy is also a elite level troll (no pun intended). :ROFLMAO:

First he references Cornette and you know that probably just had to have driven some of the AEW marks mad...on a segment that drew 2.2 million viewers, mind you. That's a freaking draw for you.


Meanwhile Drew is posting pictures at Mindy's Bakery in Chicago and talking about how Punk's body is made of glass in interviews. :ROFLMAO:

These guys are doing incredible work. My hats off to them. Especially Drew who is taking this to the next level on social media. The funniest thing about it all is that WWE is getting more out of Brawl Out than AEW ever did. The opportunity was right there for AEW to do one of the hottest feuds and angles in the recent history of wrestling and they blew it because a couple of kids were mad that they got their a** kicked and wouldn't put it aside to do business.
What's the story about Mindy's bakery? Like is there any specific detail to it other than it being a bakery in chicago?
 
I honestly don't know because all his movies have sucked. Maybe its the roles he gets. They all seem to be one-dimensional action roles. I will say I have some hope from the Mark Kerr biopic he's doing. A24, as a studio has a pretty good track-record of producing some great movies so let's see how that turns out. But yes, he was absolutely incredible here. The face of evil.

So I just rechecked and you're right it wasn't 2.2 million viewers. I read an incorrect source. But still that's a heck of a number! And JC lmao, he couldn't have asked for a better advertisement of his show. I was fairly certain that Punk was a listener because he made a Cornette reference on Rampage a couple of years ago. But it was great to see a more direct one on freaking RAW of all places!
Dwayne is someone whose wrestling career is far more versatile than his acting career. In WWE he's portrayed a variety of characters and showed some good acting chops throughout while as an actor, he's just been playing the same character in every movie since 2011(whether it's Hercules, Fast and Furious, Jumanji, San Andreas, Black Adam etc). He showed some good versatility earlier on in his performances like Be Cool, Faster, Get Smart etc. Black Adam could have been played so much better had he not insisted on making it another Rock.
 
Found this online.
I am all for an overbooked finale.
 

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What's the story about Mindy's bakery? Like is there any specific detail to it other than it being a bakery in chicago?

From Punk’s AEW presser after the PPV, he tore everyone a new one while eating muffins from Mindy’s, the presser has been etched into wrestling folklore
 
Have you looked how big AJ has gotten recently. He's looking like a proper jacked heavyweight these days. I really hope it's not the steroids.
Eddie and Benoit definitely used them, and it messed their bodies and mind leading to premature deaths.

Nah that’s not steds, not insanely massive or veiny enough. He had a lot of down time, its possible with the right diet, training and modern supplements
 
@shaz619 Punk is not just the best in the business right now in every aspect of being a pro-wrestler, but the guy is also a elite level troll (no pun intended). :ROFLMAO:

First he references Cornette and you know that probably just had to have driven some of the AEW marks mad...on a segment that drew 2.2 million viewers, mind you. That's a freaking draw for you.


Meanwhile Drew is posting pictures at Mindy's Bakery in Chicago and talking about how Punk's body is made of glass in interviews. :ROFLMAO:

These guys are doing incredible work. My hats off to them. Especially Drew who is taking this to the next level on social media. The funniest thing about it all is that WWE is getting more out of Brawl Out than AEW ever did. The opportunity was right there for AEW to do one of the hottest feuds and angles in the recent history of wrestling and they blew it because a couple of kids were mad that they got their a** kicked and wouldn't put it aside to do business.

The mental thing for me is, he was pre-advertised and The Rock appeared early with no guarantee of returning (they were shocked when he attacked Cody), yet he pulled that number it’s insane and has to be some record to

We say Punk gets the best out others but maybe Drew will bring out the beast in Punk
 
Tbh both of them have been espousing Zionist propaganda on their show. I think Cornette just by being ignorant and Last for sure is a Zionist. Its really unfortunate because now even people who used to be soft on Israel are acknowledging and condemning Israel's atrocities.

Personally, I can still enjoy their shows while putting that aspect aside. But I completely understand if you or other people wouldn't want to hear any of these guys again.

I didn’t mind either but Last has been spouting nonsense on X, and as you say JC is just plain ignorant. On one of the episodes they read a shoot letter from an Israeli who was coping after Oct 7th by listening to their show. People have their views but they should keep it away from the pod, largely they managed to do that until recently. I don’t know if they have toned it down because I am interested to hear what they have to say, the YT clips should be fine though
 
I think the night 1 mainevent will have Rock Roman winning with probably Rock getting a pin on Cody. And it will be Bloodline rules match at Night 2. And we know for certain that Jimmy, Solo and Rock will be interfering on Roman's behalf, maybe even Drew. For Cody, it will probably be Jey, Seth, Cena and Austin (I don't think the pic of Cena and Austin on the truck was accidental). And yes all the Roman's matches have featured interferences but what will even the odds will be Cody having a backup in equal numbers. And Rock is a big fan of Attitude Era which had interferences mayhem etc as the norm.
Somehow Austin interfering still does not add up. It would feel pretty random. And no offence to Austin but he's 59, has a bad neck and has wrestled one match in 20 years. Him coming in and cleaning house would make these guys look bad.
 
Have you looked how big AJ has gotten recently. He's looking like a proper jacked heavyweight these days. I really hope it's not the steroids.
Eddie and Benoit definitely used them, and it messed their bodies and mind leading to premature deaths.
He has gotten remarkably huge. And yeah I really hope it isn't steroids either.
 
What's the story about Mindy's bakery? Like is there any specific detail to it other than it being a bakery in chicago?
During Punk's infamous Press Scrum tirade he was eating muffins from Mindy's Bakery and specifically mentioned the name of the bakery and how much he loved it lol.
 
From Punk’s AEW presser after the PPV, he tore everyone a new one while eating muffins from Mindy’s, the presser has been etched into wrestling folklore
No matter what The Bucks do in their careers, that is what they will be most remembered for.
 
The mental thing for me is, he was pre-advertised and The Rock appeared early with no guarantee of returning (they were shocked when he attacked Cody), yet he pulled that number it’s insane and has to be some record to

We say Punk gets the best out others but maybe Drew will bring out the beast in Punk
So true. We're programmed to think that way. It had a very unscripted and realistic feel. And I'm so glad they didn't go overboard by having The Rock throw Cody from that Parking Lot ledge. Because that would have taken you out of it. It just needed to be a good old fashioned whopping and that's exactly what it was.

Punk v Drew feels like a hot feud. They haven't even started a program but already the heat is there. Also feels far more interesting than Punk v Seth.
 
From Punk’s AEW presser after the PPV, he tore everyone a new one while eating muffins from Mindy’s, the presser has been etched into wrestling folklore
man i didn't notice mindy's in that presser, the brawl out one right? after his match with mox
 
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I didn’t mind either but Last has been spouting nonsense on X, and as you say JC is just plain ignorant. On one of the episodes they read a shoot letter from an Israeli who was coping after Oct 7th by listening to their show. People have their views but they should keep it away from the pod, largely they managed to do that until recently. I don’t know if they have toned it down because I am interested to hear what they have to say, the YT clips should be fine though
Yeah I remember hearing that I was disgusted by it honestly. They have done it twice on two different shows but haven't said anything recently

Yeah YT clips are the best. You can pick and choose and the artwork is pretty helpful too lol
 
Somehow Austin interfering still does not add up. It would feel pretty random. And no offence to Austin but he's 59, has a bad neck and has wrestled one match in 20 years. Him coming in and cleaning house would make these guys look bad.
nah just one stunner to Dwayne would be fine. I saw wrestlevotes tweet regarding the trucks being put there with cena and austin for a reason. and he's been very accurate over the years in terms of wwe news.
 
Absolutely @RedwoodOriginal Drew getting more out the off screen stuff then the elite idiots and Perry
Drew is the only one in WWE other than Cody who try their best to make every match (whether it's a throwaway on Raw/SD) or feud (even if it's a short one) interesting. And Drew is a much better wrestler and promo than he gets credit for.
 
He has gotten remarkably huge. And yeah I really hope it isn't steroids either.

He is going to retire soon and probably work as a trainer or something, can you imagine the next gen being trained by Shawn and AJ, that’s crazy. And with the steds they are more likely to be used to maintain a physique which is far more difficult compared to actually bulking up. He is just in amazing condition, looked fantastic from that skit with LA in his house, to be hungry at this point is something. I hope he and LA is a sleeper hit
 
So true. We're programmed to think that way. It had a very unscripted and realistic feel. And I'm so glad they didn't go overboard by having The Rock throw Cody from that Parking Lot ledge. Because that would have taken you out of it. It just needed to be a good old fashioned whopping and that's exactly what it was.

Punk v Drew feels like a hot feud. They haven't even started a program but already the heat is there. Also feels far more interesting than Punk v Seth.

Seth am afraid came out with his stock a little lower because everybody else took it to another level except him, Drew has to beat him and they should set up a SS title match between him and Punk, would be huge.

Also, I think a babyface Reigns vs this Rock will do huge numbers
 
Somehow Austin interfering still does not add up. It would feel pretty random. And no offence to Austin but he's 59, has a bad neck and has wrestled one match in 20 years. Him coming in and cleaning house would make these guys look bad.

Rock’s biggest rival etc they will justify it that way and honestly, Austin will appear more like a star then 90% off the roster and he is smart enough not to get himself in a situation where he will look silly. I am usually happy with overbooking at Wrestlemania only
 
Rock’s biggest rival etc they will justify it that way and honestly, Austin will appear more like a star then 90% off the roster and he is smart enough not to get himself in a situation where he will look silly. I am usually happy with overbooking at Wrestlemania only
Plus Austin used to interrupt matches give stunners to people in AE without much reason as well. I remember him randomly interrupting a number 1 contender's match for WWF championship in 2001 to set up Kurt vs Rock.
 
nah just one stunner to Dwayne would be fine. I saw wrestlevotes tweet regarding the trucks being put there with cena and austin for a reason. and he's been very accurate over the years in terms of wwe news.
Sounds overbooked. Too many cooks spoil the broth. But let's see what they do. As for Austin, he can be there to do something else too.
 
He is going to retire soon and probably work as a trainer or something, can you imagine the next gen being trained by Shawn and AJ, that’s crazy. And with the steds they are more likely to be used to maintain a physique which is far more difficult compared to actually bulking up. He is just in amazing condition, looked fantastic from that skit with LA in his house, to be hungry at this point is something. I hope he and LA is a sleeper hit
I hope it is. Because this feud has also been kinda sidelined on SD because of the Bloodline stuff.

I still think its kinda stupid that AJ travelled half-way around the world to get revenge on LA. But since then they've done a decent job to build this feud and this skit was really fun. They tried to make it realistic with the body cam and CCTV footage which was a nice touch.
 
Seth am afraid came out with his stock a little lower because everybody else took it to another level except him, Drew has to beat him and they should set up a SS title match between him and Punk, would be huge.

Also, I think a babyface Reigns vs this Rock will do huge numbers
The way they have told this story it makes sense for Drew to win. Seth has been taking him lightly and focusing more on his match with Roman and The Rock. It would be interesting if Seth loses both matches and ends up losing everything. Could be a good reason for a heel turn and hopefully a step away from this cringe gimmick. It would naturally set up potential World title feuds with Cody and Punk as well.

It would be box-office. Reigns losing the strap should start his gradual face turn and us getting to that match
 
Rock’s biggest rival etc they will justify it that way and honestly, Austin will appear more like a star then 90% off the roster and he is smart enough not to get himself in a situation where he will look silly. I am usually happy with overbooking at Wrestlemania only
I mean you can justify anything in wrestling. They justified Rikishi running over Stone Cold for The Rock. But I trust Steve not to get involved in anything stupid.
 
@RedwoodOriginal What’s happening with MJF and the bidding war of 2024? has his contract expired, has he signed a new deal? any chance he jumps ship?
 
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