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The Wrestling Discussion Thread

shaz619 said:
People take those guys for granted and how agile they were for their size, a big guy should simply not be able to work like that for a long period, Taker was practically inhuman for the punishment he took, he really was The Deadman.
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And watching Nash past his prime is always funny except when he would keep coming back without any follow up.
 
shaz619 said:
Trips treated all the WCW guys pretty poorly besides his buddies who were past it anyway, Steiner is a personified great, when I went back to watch him as a tag team pioneer it made me appreciate him more and then towards the end of his prime, he got over as a singles star in WCW as well, we got to remember it was the peak of wrestling’s popularity so even if it was a dying ship, for Scott to get over, it couldn’t have been easy and there were a select few guys who were in the same boat in 1999/2000. You could argue that out all the WCW guys, and I don’t say this lightly, Scott got treated the worst, part of it might be how outspoken he was backstage and more willing to stand up to 4/10.
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I haven't followed The Steiner brothers as much and really only follow Scott's singles career in late WCW and beyond.
 
BunnyRabbit said:
And watching Nash past his prime is always funny except when he would keep coming back without any follow up.
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Enjoyed Nash's run in 2003.

His feud with Triple H was good. The buildup was good. Storyline was good.

Even 2011 feuds with CM Punk and Triple H weren't that bad.
 
shaz619 said:
I was surprised by his comments because you can criticise her for how she is presented etc but not her ring work, she is one of the best lightweight wrestlers on the planet because of how well she cuts of the ring. On the flip side, they are doing a better job with the triple threat build and Sky is gaining heat every week.
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I agree he's a fantastic wrestler and one of the best female wrestlers going around. JC also this bias of underrating smaller wrestlers a bit. Iyo though really knows how to use her small size to her advantage.
 
shaz619 said:
To get to that Lesnar stage we need him to do something close to Lesnar ending the streak and Lesnar squashing Cena at SS; the latter obviously is more possible but this is the territory we need to be heading towards, it wont make Cody look weak, if anything, he’d get more over. Either they are incompetent or are deliberately presenting Gunther as the weaker champion. H of all people should understand that the two champions can co-exist despite being booked strong in a similar fashion, we got the best example during the early 2000’s, H got more of the green but the WWE champion was not consistently buried, Heyman was involved at the time and Vince had the two brands working almost independently, it made for those RAW v SD battles that much more special, look at these lot, it’s like the bloods and crips going to war lmao:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1910402003773141330
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Yeah definitely they need something big. Because so far the booking of Gunther and this belt has just made it feel like a secondary belt. Great point on the 2000s. I think later aswell in 2016 they managed to restore some equivalence between the two belts but this has been it. Miss the SD v RAW era and brand warfare. You would even get to see heels and babyfaces united by their hate for the other brand. And logically that made sense. Some of those Survivor Series were fantastic.
 
shaz619 said:
Steiner was over wherever he travelled and I’ve rarely seen him on my TV when he was not entertaining, you are right about the early 90’s and the Steiner Brother’s in general, I only watched bits and bobs of their peak (I actually though Scott wasn’t in the tag team because he was unrecognisable and incredibly athletic - as you said we watched him well past his peak form but I was a big fan of Big Poppa Pump), it wasn’t until Jim kept raving on the podcast about them that I went out of my way to see their matches and I was blown away, it makes me sad to see the state of the tag division presently. I think that style/era of working ending when Jay Briscoe passed away, because The Revival & The Briscoe’s were destined to wrestle each other till the end quiet literally, no one else was on their level.

Not to mention, Scott innovated the Frankensteiner to; it’s an insult to see H get inducted in comparison to all these names who did way more for the industry really, it’s like he had to bury these guys to sell us a fallacy that he was superior.

Isn’t also nice that Steiner always puts his nephew over, that’s what I love about the wrestling business, it’s a proper family, imagine Steiner was a Pakistani, he would be calling Bron a jobber all over Youtube.
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Haha it was the same for me. I went back and saw Steiner Bros matches after Jim raved about them. Was particularly impressed by Steiner Bros v Hase and Sasaki. But honestly their work from that era was stellar across promotions.

Yeah Jey's passing was really unfortunate. I think those two teams alone were capable of reshaping modern day tag team wrestling. You could have reversed the roles and gotten multiple feuds out of them, revisited it again and again. Tbh, FTR haven't been the same since Punk left. Which is such a shame considering they have involved in almost all the greatest tag team matches of the modern era. They might be building towards FTR v Edge and Christian at All In, which I would be very excited to see. But the state of tag team wrestling in general is not the same eventhough at one point AEW was doing really brilliantly there.
 
shaz619 said:
This programme with Naomi will tell us how far she can go, so far am happy with her work since coming back, massive massive test for her at Mania, but as you said, if she has a limiting skill level, then she will need to focus on her strengths as you said; in the end, for women similar to her size, I think Beth Phoenix & Chyna are the best examples of getting yourself over with the agility in mind.

Am going to look for more Megan Bayne content, anything stand out so far? As strong as WWE’s set up is currently, I still don’t think they should overlook well travelled wrestlers, Megan as you said had the benefit of working in Japan, if she came through the PC, I doubt that would be possible.
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Yes good example. Chyna was horrible in the ring but got her size over pretty well. There's Awesome Kong but she is in an entirely league altogether, because she excelled in all areas. One of the greatest female wrestlers ever imo.

Tbh not much. I am not a big enough fan to back and watch Stardom. In AEW, I reckon the match she had with Toni Storm at the most recent PPV is probably the best example of what she can do. Because it was a world title match with a good amount of time. Though I feel Toni carried her there a fair bit.

You're right. The PC is good but it has its disadvantages too. It's too much like a training school and wrestlers are not getting enough audience exposure. This why their developmental programs in OVW and FCW were different. Because there you didn't have like a hardcore base of fans every week. Alot of the people in the audience were just regular small-town people who didn't have anything better to do lol.
 
BunnyRabbit said:
Every time I watch Nash, I appreciate just how good Undertaker and Kane were.
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I've warmed up to Nash a bit over the years. He was a really smart and canny operator. Despite being like 2/10 in the ring for most of his career he was at one point one of the highest-paid wrestlers in the business, a multiple time world champion, was at the center of the hottest wrestling storyline of all-time and even ended Goldberg's streak. You also can't deny that the guy had alot of personality. I even enjoy/agree with his takes on modern wrestling most of the time. But he is way off base here.
 
BunnyRabbit said:
Although I don't rate Steiner among the best, he was pretty good though. I remember in 2000 watching him on Nitro where he had three matches on a single show, a 1 vs 4 match, a singles match with DDP, and a match with Sting. He was quite hot for a dying show WCW had become at that point. He was simply treated very badly upon his re-signing with WWE during the RA. Soon after his feud with Trips, he was tag teaming with Test and Stacy and jobbing out.
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In the ring his peak was pretty much over after the early 90s. He had a good enough run in WCW at the top of the card but the completely was basically finished so nobody remembers it. It was his personality and promos though that were so goddamn entertaining. I mean the Steiner math promo is just legendary and there's plenty of more examples. In TNA he was completely unhinged lol. Nobody was going to tell him how to do a promo.

Yes, I remember that too. It was pretty horrible. Test is another wrestler I consider to be very underrated and another guy Triple H buried. Nobody did the big boot like Test. And he moved so well for his size. RIP.
 
sweep_shot said:
Enjoyed Nash's run in 2003.

His feud with Triple H was good. The buildup was good. Storyline was good.

Even 2011 feuds with CM Punk and Triple H weren't that bad.
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The match he had with H was good ngl. It probably might be one of his best matches, right up there with the match he had with Bret.

The CM Punk stuff (can't even call it a feud) and everything that transpired there was just horrible though. It completely destroyed Punk's momentum. And while you can't blame Nash for that, you can definitely blame Triple H for it.
 
shaz619 said:
Trips treated all the WCW guys pretty poorly besides his buddies who were past it anyway, Steiner is a personified great, when I went back to watch him as a tag team pioneer it made me appreciate him more and then towards the end of his prime, he got over as a singles star in WCW as well, we got to remember it was the peak of wrestling’s popularity so even if it was a dying ship, for Scott to get over, it couldn’t have been easy and there were a select few guys who were in the same boat in 1999/2000. You could argue that out all the WCW guys, and I don’t say this lightly, Scott got treated the worst, part of it might be how outspoken he was backstage and more willing to stand up to 4/10.
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Scott Steiner and Booker T >>>>> Triple H

And yet this guy went over against both lol.

Those 2 losing to him in the reign of terror were what declined my interest for the first time until Batista put his sorry a** through a table when he chose Raw and would continue to beat him every time until he sadly chose to retire vs him.

I still remember when he came back one final time for an evolution reunion and turned on H for no reason lmao.
 
Suleiman said:
Scott Steiner and Booker T >>>>> Triple H

And yet this guy went over against both lol.

Those 2 losing to him in the reign of terror were what declined my interest for the first time until Batista put his sorry a** through a table when he chose Raw and would continue to beat him every time until he sadly chose to retire vs him.

I still remember when he came back one final time for an evolution reunion and turned on H for no reason lmao.
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The Booker T-HHH feud has to be one of the worst things they have done in the last 20+ years. You had a heel making overtly racist, demeaning remarks toward the babyface, only for him to win clean in the end. If the plan was always for H to win, there was absolutely no need to go in that direction.
 
WCW guys H buried:
  • Booker T
  • Chris Jericho
  • Kevin Nash
  • Goldberg
  • Scott Steiner
  • Sting
  • Big Show
  • Mark Jindrak (he was probably his own worst enemy, but still H had a big hand by throwing him out of Evolution and burying him to Vince)
Some like Jericho and Booker were good enough to still bounce back, others were not so lucky. Would have buried Hogan if he could, but Hogan was his dad when it came to backstage politics lol.
 
I like "Speedball" Mike Bailey. He may not click with the old-school fans, but as far as the modern style goes, he’s good at working it. For me, he's basically a better version of Matt Riddle.

Don’t watch TNA, but I’ve seen a lot of his matches from that run—they were good. He’s another guy, like Ricochet, whose highest ceiling lies in a company like AEW.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
I've warmed up to Nash a bit over the years. He was a really smart and canny operator. Despite being like 2/10 in the ring for most of his career he was at one point one of the highest-paid wrestlers in the business, a multiple time world champion, was at the center of the hottest wrestling storyline of all-time and even ended Goldberg's streak. You also can't deny that the guy had alot of personality. I even enjoy/agree with his takes on modern wrestling most of the time. But he is way off base here.
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Personality plus politicking.
 
Suleiman said:
Aldis v Randy about to go crazy.
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The funniest thing is how well it works in kayfabe.

Pearce is a nice guy who lets people walk all over him. Which is why his show is always in a state of chaos.

Aldis is assertive and and doesn't take $hit from anyone. He won't let you disrespect him just like that, or make him look like a fool.

Really hope it isn't Solo or someone else.
 
This was much needed. FTR have felt a little stale because of Tony's garbage booking. Turning heel is a chance to go back to where they excel. Hopefully this leads to FTR v Edge & Christian.

 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Yeah definitely they need something big. Because so far the booking of Gunther and this belt has just made it feel like a secondary belt. Great point on the 2000s. I think later aswell in 2016 they managed to restore some equivalence between the two belts but this has been it. Miss the SD v RAW era and brand warfare. You would even get to see heels and babyfaces united by their hate for the other brand. And logically that made sense. Some of those Survivor Series were fantastic.
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In those days the heels and babys were so well defined and strong that it made you pop big when they united for a common goal, like look at JBL in that clip his face gets me lol these men going to war as equals
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Haha it was the same for me. I went back and saw Steiner Bros matches after Jim raved about them. Was particularly impressed by Steiner Bros v Hase and Sasaki. But honestly their work from that era was stellar across promotions.

Yeah Jey's passing was really unfortunate. I think those two teams alone were capable of reshaping modern day tag team wrestling. You could have reversed the roles and gotten multiple feuds out of them, revisited it again and again. Tbh, FTR haven't been the same since Punk left. Which is such a shame considering they have involved in almost all the greatest tag team matches of the modern era. They might be building towards FTR v Edge and Christian at All In, which I would be very excited to see. But the state of tag team wrestling in general is not the same eventhough at one point AEW was doing really brilliantly there.
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That would be great to see because Edge & Christian haven’t tagged in a while so it would be special, Edge always raved about The Revival when they were in NXT to and must be looking forward to working with them in that capacity. Yeah AEW were doing a decent job originally, whatever happened to Private Party?
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Yes good example. Chyna was horrible in the ring but got her size over pretty well. There's Awesome Kong but she is in an entirely league altogether, because she excelled in all areas. One of the greatest female wrestlers ever imo.

Tbh not much. I am not a big enough fan to back and watch Stardom. In AEW, I reckon the match she had with Toni Storm at the most recent PPV is probably the best example of what she can do. Because it was a world title match with a good amount of time. Though I feel Toni carried her there a fair bit.

You're right. The PC is good but it has its disadvantages too. It's too much like a training school and wrestlers are not getting enough audience exposure. This why their developmental programs in OVW and FCW were different. Because there you didn't have like a hardcore base of fans every week. Alot of the people in the audience were just regular small-town people who didn't have anything better to do lol.
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I didn’t mind Chyna because she had the IT factor, I wouldn’t call her terrible personally but she worked a lot more as a powerhouse who was capable of some insane physical & athletic feats, and she got to work with guys & gals who knew how to get you to suspend your disbelief for that aspect of her ring generalship, and am still a believer of less is more and simplicity. Winning the IC title and being advocated for the WWE title are some insane landmarks that will never be met again for a women’s performer.

You know the PC crowd is a lot different then it use to be, it has lost some of the fans from the black & gold era, but made some new ones and even some ex-AEW fans. They should certainly have them travel a bit & I think they do, NXT sometimes run house shows, sending these guys and gals to different countries isn’t a terrible shout either. But now they have one distinct advantage; HBK, and you can only ever learn from one HBK.
 
Suleiman said:
Scott Steiner and Booker T >>>>> Triple H

And yet this guy went over against both lol.

Those 2 losing to him in the reign of terror were what declined my interest for the first time until Batista put his sorry a** through a table when he chose Raw and would continue to beat him every time until he sadly chose to retire vs him.

I still remember when he came back one final time for an evolution reunion and turned on H for no reason lmao.
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Booker T was the worst one I will ever witness in my life and still boils my blood now, also recall how the piece of **** returned to get some of that King Booker smoke and I will need to look at the records but feel H beat King Booker for the title as well. Booker T, RVD & Kane should have achieved way more in the early 2000’s.

This piece of **** buried Kane during a landmark moment in his career to, it would have been great business if the big red machine had a title reign during that period, he was so over.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
WCW guys H buried:
  • Booker T
  • Chris Jericho
  • Kevin Nash
  • Goldberg
  • Scott Steiner
  • Sting
  • Big Show
  • Mark Jindrak (he was probably his own worst enemy, but still H had a big hand by throwing him out of Evolution and burying him to Vince)
Some like Jericho and Booker were good enough to still bounce back, others were not so lucky. Would have buried Hogan if he could, but Hogan was his dad when it came to backstage politics lol.
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I am that baby that got thrown in the air when Hogan beat H for the WWE championship
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
The funniest thing is how well it works in kayfabe.

Pearce is a nice guy who lets people walk all over him. Which is why his show is always in a state of chaos.

Aldis is assertive and and doesn't take $hit from anyone. He won't let you disrespect him just like that, or make him look like a fool.

Really hope it isn't Solo or someone else.
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I don’t have high hopes bro but it would be a pleasant surprise because I admire Aldis. I think next week Aldis is going to get another RKO and while seething on the floor he will give Randy his mania match but it will be an opponent he finds out on the day; at WM 41, Russev makes his return to face Randy, he is already signed with the WWE. Plus I think Russev & Randy were good mates ? Randy never has a problem doing the job regardless.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
This was much needed. FTR have felt a little stale because of Tony's garbage booking. Turning heel is a chance to go back to where they excel. Hopefully this leads to FTR v Edge & Christian.

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Is All In the Wembley show, I forget as I didn’t watch them besides the first, it would be perfect there. And this is much needed for FTR, were they heels well before Punk over there so it has been years right?
 
shaz619 said:
I don’t have high hopes bro but it would be a pleasant surprise because I admire Aldis. I think next week Aldis is going to get another RKO and while seething on the floor he will give Randy his mania match but it will be an opponent he finds out on the day; at WM 41, Russev makes his return to face Randy, he is already signed with the WWE. Plus I think Russev & Randy were good mates ? Randy never has a problem doing the job regardless.
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If it’s Lesnar I will accept that bah gawd
 
shaz619 said:
I don’t have high hopes bro but it would be a pleasant surprise because I admire Aldis. I think next week Aldis is going to get another RKO and while seething on the floor he will give Randy his mania match but it will be an opponent he finds out on the day; at WM 41, Russev makes his return to face Randy, he is already signed with the WWE. Plus I think Russev & Randy were good mates ? Randy never has a problem doing the job regardless.
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Randy doesn't have s problem doing the job but don't think he should. I want Randy to win at Mania and Aldis as the opponent makes sense in that regard. Both Malakai and Rusev/Miro would have to win if they face Randy. Solo can win the Andre the Giant battle royal. No need to put him against Randy.
 
shaz619 said:
Is All In the Wembley show, I forget as I didn’t watch them besides the first, it would be perfect there. And this is much needed for FTR, were they heels well before Punk over there so it has been years right?
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This year they are doing it in Texas. But its still a stadium show. They are doing it in Globe Life Field, some baseball stadium.

Yeah FTR came in as heels and had been babyfaces for the last 3 or so years
 
shaz619 said:
Booker T was the worst one I will ever witness in my life and still boils my blood now, also recall how the piece of **** returned to get some of that King Booker smoke and I will need to look at the records but feel H beat King Booker for the title as well. Booker T, RVD & Kane should have achieved way more in the early 2000’s.

This piece of **** buried Kane during a landmark moment in his career to, it would have been great business if the big red machine had a title reign during that period, he was so over.
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RVD was so freaking over during that period. He easily could have been World Champion during that time because that's just how popular he was. That was also the most interesting that Kane has probably ever been barring his debut. And H buried both
 
shaz619 said:
I didn’t mind Chyna because she had the IT factor, I wouldn’t call her terrible personally but she worked a lot more as a powerhouse who was capable of some insane physical & athletic feats, and she got to work with guys & gals who knew how to get you to suspend your disbelief for that aspect of her ring generalship, and am still a believer of less is more and simplicity. Winning the IC title and being advocated for the WWE title are some insane landmarks that will never be met again for a women’s performer.

You know the PC crowd is a lot different then it use to be, it has lost some of the fans from the black & gold era, but made some new ones and even some ex-AEW fans. They should certainly have them travel a bit & I think they do, NXT sometimes run house shows, sending these guys and gals to different countries isn’t a terrible shout either. But now they have one distinct advantage; HBK, and you can only ever learn from one HBK.
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Tbh I wasn't a fan of them putting the IC Championship on her. In general I am not okay with intergender wrestling. It damages the credibility of wrestling and most people don't want to see a man getting physical with a woman. Disagree on Chyna. She definitely had a presence and I would consider her a trail-blazer for women's wrestling but in the ring I thought she was quite bad when I revisited some of the matches from that era.

NXT were doing house shows in smaller buildings at one point many years ago, but for some reason they stopped doing it. Considering the amount of money that WWE have I don't understand why they can't start doing them again. The WWE brand is strong enough to draw and its not like they will be running massive arenas with NXT.
 
shaz619 said:
That would be great to see because Edge & Christian haven’t tagged in a while so it would be special, Edge always raved about The Revival when they were in NXT to and must be looking forward to working with them in that capacity. Yeah AEW were doing a decent job originally, whatever happened to Private Party?
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They put the belts on them for a little while. Then Hurt Syndicate came in, killed them and took their belts. They haven't been seen since. It was the right thing to do. The Hurt Syndicate need to be in this position. But Private Party's position on the card has generally floundered in recent years because of bad booking and no real direction.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Hogan was more over in his nostalgia run than H has been at any point of his career lol.
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That’s actually true LOL I became a big mark of Hogan after WM X8, that poster of Hogan/Rock with small H in the background always gets me, Hogan minus his usual behaviours backstage had a decent run on his return to be fair, he did jobs for some of the top guys to, even Hogan knew H was a 4/10.

I just watched the Screwjob episode from the Vince documentary and Bret’s wife roasting H made my day (she said something along the lines of I hope you get hit by lightening and what goes around comes around), she could see through the snake’s foreskin. What’s quiet eerie and something which I did not know before is that Bret had Shawn correct the Sharpshooter while he was applying it :/ poor Bret man 🤣🤣🤣

And then WCW shat their pants with the hottest star on the planet.
 
sweep_shot said:
There used to be a title in WWE called Light Heavyweight Championship. Should WWE bring it back? I know it got merged with Cruiserweight title but I think it should be brought back. It has a bit of history.

I remember guys like Essa Rios, Dean Melanko etc. used to battle for this title. Even Jeff Hardy won it once.

en.wikipedia.org

List of WWF Light Heavyweight Champions - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
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In video games I competed for this title as well quiet heavily 🤣 They had some decent high-flyers and technically gifted wrestlers in the division, despite how mature the product & popular culture was, the roster was so deep.
 
For someone who likes to call himself a student of the game and an old school throwback, he practically killed wrestling with the curtain call and pulled one of the most low ball moments in wresting history at SS 97. H will always be a snake.
 
sweep_shot said:
There used to be a title in WWE called Light Heavyweight Championship. Should WWE bring it back? I know it got merged with Cruiserweight title but I think it should be brought back. It has a bit of history.

I remember guys like Essa Rios, Dean Melanko etc. used to battle for this title. Even Jeff Hardy won it once.

en.wikipedia.org

List of WWF Light Heavyweight Champions - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
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It was basically WWF's answer to WCW's Cruiserweight Championship. The problem was, Vince never really took smaller guys seriously. While there were some good matches involving that belt, it was never treated with the same importance as WCW's Cruiserweight title—which regularly delivered some of the best matches on the card. WCW had an incredible roster of smaller guys during its peak and all the best luchadores in the business.

Exhibit A - one of the greatest wrestling matches of the 90s:


I don’t think they should bring back the Cruiserweight or Light Heavyweight Championship today. In modern wrestling, the perception of smaller wrestlers has changed drastically. They're now appreciated for their speed, tenacity, and skill—and if they're good enough, they are elevated to the main-event level too.
 
shaz619 said:
Out of respect for one of my all time favourites, I wont be making a move on this amazing lady:


@Suleiman @RedwoodOriginal
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Bro this doc. is a must-watch for any wrestling fan. It's almost surreal how everything that transpired at SS '97 happened while they were filming this documentary.

For anyone who hasn't seen it, its called Wrestling with Shadows.
 
shaz619 said:
That’s actually true LOL I became a big mark of Hogan after WM X8, that poster of Hogan/Rock with small H in the background always gets me, Hogan minus his usual behaviours backstage had a decent run on his return to be fair, he did jobs for some of the top guys to, even Hogan knew H was a 4/10.

I just watched the Screwjob episode from the Vince documentary and Bret’s wife roasting H made my day (she said something along the lines of I hope you get hit by lightening and what goes around comes around), she could see through the snake’s foreskin. What’s quiet eerie and something which I did not know before is that Bret had Shawn correct the Sharpshooter while he was applying it :/ poor Bret man 🤣🤣🤣

And then WCW shat their pants with the hottest star on the planet.
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Hogan is a $cumbag to the core. Always has been. But at the end of the day he is also one of the biggest stars this business has ever seen and did have a big hand in making wrestling bigger. nWo angle was also huge and I don't think wrestling fans today grasp the impact it had at the time because unlike WWF, WCW did not have that international audience nor is it remembered much today because its dead. So those are two things I will always give him credit for. Also, the Hollywood Hogan gimmick was money.

That's more than HHH can do in 10 lifetimes.

Lol, that doc is pure gold. It's the kind of thing that's almost too good to be true. That they happened to be filming this documentary right around when this whole thing blew up and managed to get all the raw footage and reactions on tape. It's really something and a super interesting watch.

Bret in WCW was always going to fail with a headless show-runner like Bischoff and Hogan having the influence he did.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Hogan is a $cumbag to the core. Always has been. But at the end of the day he is also one of the biggest stars this business has ever seen and did have a big hand in making wrestling bigger. nWo angle was also huge and I don't think wrestling fans today grasp the impact it had at the time because unlike WWF, WCW did not have that international audience nor is it remembered much today because its dead. So those are two things I will always give him credit for. Also, the Hollywood Hogan gimmick was money.

That's more than HHH can do in 10 lifetimes.

Lol, that doc is pure gold. It's the kind of thing that's almost too good to be true. That they happened to be filming this documentary right around when this whole thing blew up and managed to get all the raw footage and reactions on tape. It's really something and a super interesting watch.

Bret in WCW was always going to fail with a headless show-runner like Bischoff and Hogan having the influence he did.
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You know that doc probably was the reason why rumours started on the whole situation being one big shoot, but I don’t think so personally….
 
Suleiman said:
Hope he remembers those words of her. “What goes around comes around”. Important for all of us.

But the amount of people he's screwed over and still seeing success, he better be careful.
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He had that serious heart issue before he got the head role, I’d hope it changed him somewhat
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
This is pretty funny. Definitely makes me respect Ospreay. He could have been a mark for himself and shilled for the IWC, and the Observer crowd, but good to see that he is grounded in reality and recognizes how utterly stupid and meaningless Dave's method of rating matches is.
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Whenever I see him now I just remember that promo about H grinding on the bosses daughter 🤣 Dave has always been a pleb and gets way too excited, just for select territories and wrestlers.

Orton don’t have a 5* match either but old boy Dave said if the ‘greatest wrestling match ever’ was not pre-taped, he would have given it 5*. All the matches which were not live, he didn’t rate them during COVID.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
It was basically WWF's answer to WCW's Cruiserweight Championship. The problem was, Vince never really took smaller guys seriously. While there were some good matches involving that belt, it was never treated with the same importance as WCW's Cruiserweight title—which regularly delivered some of the best matches on the card. WCW had an incredible roster of smaller guys during its peak and all the best luchadores in the business.

Exhibit A - one of the greatest wrestling matches of the 90s:


I don’t think they should bring back the Cruiserweight or Light Heavyweight Championship today. In modern wrestling, the perception of smaller wrestlers has changed drastically. They're now appreciated for their speed, tenacity, and skill—and if they're good enough, they are elevated to the main-event level too.
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When you watch that match at HH, only then will you understand why Eddie was so upset with the opener at WM 21 which I have down as one of my favourites ever to start any PPV.
 
Bhaijaan said:
Brothers, Give me 3 good reasons to watch the Wrestlemania this year. I feel disillusioned with the storylines currently.

@shaz619 @RedwoodOriginal
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1. You get the follow up to arguably the greatest heel turn of all time; Cody vs Cena for the title is must see even for lapsed fans. You will get great ring action & drama here.

2. Roman Reigns vs CM Punk vs Seth Rollins - You got two huge stars in this match and I am confident this will deliver from an in-ring perspective.

3. Rey Mysterio Jnr vs El Grande Americano in a mask v mask match, EL Grande is rumoured to be the Weasley Chad Gable who has a distasteful agenda against Lucha wrestlers who all kept beating him up, so he put on a mask to throw them off their game allegedly. So good ring action in this one and drama.

Honourable mention:

AJ Styles vs Logan Paul

Charlotte Flair vs Tiffy and Iyo Sky vs Ripley vs Bianca (Because I know Bhaijan is a perv so this covers all facets :yk3 Both are solid women's matches and you can take your pick)
 
If you think about it, despite our reservations, El Grande is in a top 3 WM match in my eyes and Rey is the best possible opponent he could hope for with the current story, and the styles clash will make for great viewing on paper.
 
shaz619 said:
When you watch that match at HH, only then will you understand why Eddie was so upset with the opener at WM 21 which I have down as one of my favourites ever to start any PPV.
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Yes they deserved better. These two were just perfect opponents. Every time they were in the ring, it was pure magic. And Eddie was one of the biggest proponents of Rey throughout his career. Even in that 2005 feud, the running joke was that Eddie couldn't beat Rey which slowly drove him insane and basically made him turn heel. Also gives some context into why Rey looked up to him so much and considered him a brother. RIP.
 
shaz619 said:
Whenever I see him now I just remember that promo about H grinding on the bosses daughter 🤣 Dave has always been a pleb and gets way too excited, just for select territories and wrestlers.

Orton don’t have a 5* match either but old boy Dave said if the ‘greatest wrestling match ever’ was not pre-taped, he would have given it 5*. All the matches which were not live, he didn’t rate them during COVID.
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That was a hilarious line lol. And not like H didn't ask for it when he took the first shot.

I actually find it quite funny that this style of wrestling is what Dave has been waiting to see his whole life. I mean think about it, this guy covered pretty much every major era of wrestling from the 80s onwards and this is what everything has apparently been leading towards for him.

He took this stand at the start then started rating matches during COVID because apparently the subscriptions were being affected lol.
 
shaz619 said:
You know that doc probably was the reason why rumours started on the whole situation being one big shoot, but I don’t think so personally….
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Tbh I am on the side that says it was a shoot. Atleast everything that happened in the ring. I believe Bret did not know he was being double-crossed.
 
Bhaijaan said:
Brothers, Give me 3 good reasons to watch the Wrestlemania this year. I feel disillusioned with the storylines currently.

@shaz619 @RedwoodOriginal
Click to expand...
  • You are probably going to see the start of the Cena heel era and see a good guy who tirelessly worked for 9 years to get to 'finish his story' just get destroyed by the franchise. Who doesn't want to see that?
  • CM Punk v Roman Reigns v Seth Rollins with Paul Heyman in the middle.
  • Gunther slapping Jey Uso out of his boots and likely battering him like a government mule.
 
shaz619 said:
If you think about it, despite our reservations, El Grande is in a top 3 WM match in my eyes and Rey is the best possible opponent he could hope for with the current story, and the styles clash will make for great viewing on paper.
Click to expand...
To be very honest, this WrestleMania doesn't have the sense of excitement that was there last year. But that's natural. WrestleMania 40 was probably one of the greatest Manias ever. I am hoping they can deliver on the nights of the show. There are a number of matches with good potential like the one you named.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Yes they deserved better. These two were just perfect opponents. Every time they were in the ring, it was pure magic. And Eddie was one of the biggest proponents of Rey throughout his career. Even in that 2005 feud, the running joke was that Eddie couldn't beat Rey which slowly drove him insane and basically made him turn heel. Also gives some context into why Rey looked up to him so much and considered him a brother. RIP.
Click to expand...

Eddie was just too much of a perfectionist and it ultimately led to his demise, that was a beautiful match, a special match at WM, it’s just a damn shame he stopped enjoying himself. Even Shawn was in a similar place (thank god he’s still alive, there’s an AE doc I need to watch of his which I keep seeing clips off, but in the late 90’s at the height of Shawn’s peak and substance abuse, he was literally suicidal and would make comments like if he passed away after WM 10, he’d go down as one of the greatest ever like Elvis, and by 1998 when he had to retire, I have magazines where many experts at that point declared Shawn the greatest ever to do it. Shawn & Eddie both had similar journey’s with their struggles outside the ring and resurrection through faith, the latter didn’t quiet exorcise his demons sadly.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
To be very honest, this WrestleMania doesn't have the sense of excitement that was there last year. But that's natural. WrestleMania 40 was probably one of the greatest Manias ever. I am hoping they can deliver on the nights of the show. There are a number of matches with good potential like the one you named.
Click to expand...

WM 40 was a solid event, if you take out Cody’s story and Sami beating Gunther, it wasn’t much. Overall it was an acceptable Wrestlemania imo In the stadium era this is the formula they are going to stick with. For me the best WM’s were one night only events which were done within 4.5 hours max and were filled with not just great match types & drama, but also created some amazing memorable moments, that indescribable magic which incites your emotions, some of it made you cry, some of it made you laugh and other times it just was so bad it was great, e.g. Akebono vs Big Show, all these years later I still remember those two Mofos.

The positive is that they recognise WM needs to capture that, but am not sure we will find the sweet spot from the top to the bottom ever again due to the weaker undercard's from the H era and his Takeover style booking.
 
may be the absolute worst build up to a WM main event championship match ever.. all momentum is gone all thanks to Cena’s absence in very important shows.

Think they’re taking the you can’t see him meme literal as Cody is just talking to himself half the time with Cena not there.

This last week he had to fill in the time by giving a power point presentation on all the belts…
 
When Cena wouldn’t be there they could’ve at least thrown the rock in there or even sent Travis Scott to assault Cody and then do dabka dance as he lay unconscious
 
Suleiman said:
may be the absolute worst build up to a WM main event championship match ever.. all momentum is gone all thanks to Cena’s absence in very important shows.

Think they’re taking the you can’t see him meme literal as Cody is just talking to himself half the time with Cena not there.

This last week he had to fill in the time by giving a power point presentation on all the belts…
Click to expand...

The PP presentation just got me 🤣🤣🤣🤣 that’s what it was 😭😭😭😭 They may as well have sent Mohammad Wasim the ex-selector in place of Cody for Smackdown last week.

This problem started during the Network era, they stopped hyping the matches like they use to in the past, and under H, the audience has fallen asleep. We need Rock to be involved like he was last year to make it worthwhile and take the lead booking decisions, he gets so much stick but he was a big part of why WM 40 was a success. I remember H getting butt hurt about Rocky and he cut that promo like a mark about calling the shots, little 4/10 couldn’t keep his biznatch shut for a little while.
 
shaz619 said:
The PP presentation just got me 🤣🤣🤣🤣 that’s what it was 😭😭😭😭 They may as well have sent Mohammad Wasim the ex-selector in place of Cody for Smackdown last week.

This problem started during the Network era, they stopped hyping the matches like they use to in the past, and under H, the audience has fallen asleep. We need Rock to be involved like he was last year to make it worthwhile and take the lead booking decisions, he gets so much stick but he was a big part of why WM 40 was a success. I remember H getting butt hurt about Rocky and he cut that promo like a mark about calling the shots, little 4/10 couldn’t keep his biznatch shut for a little while.
Click to expand...
H always has job to Rock despite how much pot stirring he tried, first as wrestlers now in management lol.

And I agree. His I call the shots nonsense went nowhere lmao.
 
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