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The Wrestling Discussion Thread

BunnyRabbit said:
Have said it many times, The Rock vs Hogan at Mania 18 is one of my favorite matches of all time. It didn't need technical wizardry or even a good feud leading to it. It was just clash of two generations at the biggest occasion possible. Dwayne's said a lot of times how he was not sure if he would be the winner after the match is over cause match endings could be changed on the spot or Hogan hoganing stuff up. They hadn't even practiced the match before cause Hogan wasn't physically fully fit. Hogan called all the spots in the match after seeing the reaction of the crowd and they deviated from some of the spots they were initially going to do. He also said during the final moments, hogan apparently said you're going over after the people's elbow.

Back in 2002, I had woken up at 5 ish in the morning to watch Mania live at Supersports. Everything afterwards in Hogan's run was meh apart from his tag team with Edge.

Hogan vs Angle at KOR 2002 is the second one and was pretty good that put over Ankle lock as an inescapable hold.

Apart from that, don't think Hogan's matches deviated much from the usual Hogan template. But his matches in his first run had the crowd firmly behind him and he did have that infectious positive charisma that would take over and made you enjoy them. Hogan vs Savage was also pretty good.
Hogan vs Warrior was a short one but entertaining.
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Hogan & Warrior was like a modern match, even after the entrances, they worked for like 25 mins at WM 6, it was epic match really which silenced the growing smark community & non-kayfabe magazines. When you consider how huge they were and their conditioning as a result, to work that level of psychological match was insane for the WWF in 1990. I think even the Observer or PWI (who are more like the Observer these days) gave it the MOTY award.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Still can't believe these idiots gave this match away on free TV, instead of PPV
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Short-sighted, no long term planning. They got their ego dented in the ratings war and didn’t look at any other aspect of their programming & product, ended up getting desperate & with sh!t stain in their corner, the days were numbered.
 
shaz619 said:
Short-sighted, no long term planning. They got their ego dented in the ratings war and didn’t look at any other aspect of their programming & product, ended up getting desperate & with sh!t stain in their corner, the days were numbered.
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Yeah it was all about beating RAW in the ratings and helping themselves (Bischoff, Hogan), rather than doing what was best for the company. I read somewhere that the revenue from the PPVs went to Warner Home Video which is what made them do this match on a random Nitro, because they weren't going to see that money anyway. Sums up WCW in a nutshell.
 
shaz619 said:
He got Hoganed by Kurt as well ;) The story behind that is hilarious btw, I wont spoil it bur Kurt has done some interviews on YT.

In WCW, unequivocally the match with Bill in the Georgia Dome for all the reasons you mentioned and it’s one of the most re-watchable moments/matches from that era for me.

In Japan, all the matches he had with The Great Muta, showed how good he actually was in the ring & how a lot of what he did for the WWE was inherently driven by ring psychology, against all opponents/sizes he had the best matches possible in a high profile scenario. I think WCW tainted that rep but who is silly enough to give complete creative control to wrestlers these days ? There is somebody, and he don’t even have a Hogan :yk

In WWE, there’s a lot to pick from but for me personally, it’s The Rock & Hogan as well, arguably the greatest match of all time, the match itself was great and it represented truly what it means to get the audience to suspend their disbelief, multi-layered narrative, the perfect dance partner and a magical crowd which Hogan created; the best part is that, it wasn’t just one of those audiences for a big event, they completely switched off for Triple H right after 💀 It’s my second most re-watched match ever and bought back the red & yellow, Hogan’s comeback on the whole was pretty decent come to think of it & teenage me was so thrilled even by the Mr. America storyline :yk
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I'm glad you brought up Japan, because that part of Hogan's career doesn't get talked about enough. I've seen a few matches sparingly over the years, but he's almost unrecognizable when it comes to the wrestling. He actually worked hard there, and was wrestling a more technical style, with mat-based grappling, submissions... he even traded in the signature leg drop for the Axe Bomber. He wrestled a bunch of big names, from Muta to Stan Hansen, Tenryu, and Fujinami, over multiple tours. Which just goes to show, he could wrestle when he wanted to. And honestly, it also tells you why he's one of the smartest guys in the history of wrestling: he got by on that leg drop and like five other moves for over twenty years and still became the biggest draw in the business.
 
BunnyRabbit said:
Have said it many times, The Rock vs Hogan at Mania 18 is one of my favorite matches of all time. It didn't need technical wizardry or even a good feud leading to it. It was just clash of two generations at the biggest occasion possible. Dwayne's said a lot of times how he was not sure if he would be the winner after the match is over cause match endings could be changed on the spot or Hogan hoganing stuff up. They hadn't even practiced the match before cause Hogan wasn't physically fully fit. Hogan called all the spots in the match after seeing the reaction of the crowd and they deviated from some of the spots they were initially going to do. He also said during the final moments, hogan apparently said you're going over after the people's elbow.

Back in 2002, I had woken up at 5 ish in the morning to watch Mania live at Supersports. Everything afterwards in Hogan's run was meh apart from his tag team with Edge.

Hogan vs Angle at KOR 2002 is the second one and was pretty good that put over Ankle lock as an inescapable hold.

Apart from that, don't think Hogan's matches deviated much from the usual Hogan template. But his matches in his first run had the crowd firmly behind him and he did have that infectious positive charisma that would take over and made you enjoy them. Hogan vs Savage was also pretty good.
Hogan vs Warrior was a short one but entertaining.
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Looking back, I have mostly positive feelings about his nostalgia run. It was short and sweet. Didn't overstay it's welcome and he was made to do the job on his way out (willingly or unwillingly) when Brock annihilated him on RAW. He came back for that match with Vince, and then later, Shawn and Randy, but for me 2002 is where his full-time career ended.

Rock and Hogan actually had a rematch of that WrestleMania 18 match at No Way Out 2003. But surprisingly no one seems to recall it even happened. Although tbf I have no memory of that match either eventhough I recall seeing it.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
I'm glad you brought up Japan, because that part of Hogan's career doesn't get talked about enough. I've seen a few matches sparingly over the years, but he's almost unrecognizable when it comes to the wrestling. He actually worked hard there, and was wrestling a more technical style, with mat-based grappling, submissions... he even traded in the signature leg drop for the Axe Bomber. He wrestled a bunch of big names, from Muta to Stan Hansen, Tenryu, and Fujinami, over multiple tours. Which just goes to show, he could wrestle when he wanted to. And honestly, it also tells you why he's one of the smartest guys in the history of wrestling: he got by on that leg drop and like five other moves for over twenty years and still became the biggest draw in the business.
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Hogan mentioned his biggest regret was picking the leg drop as his finisher due to the impact on his back & all the surgeries he has required, just reinforces your post and how he thought in the ring, I don’t know if it was the Torture Rack or Axe Bomber or Big Boot, he mentioned that one of those moves should have been his finisher. In Japan, he also had his own variant of the Kenny Omega V-Trigger, it actually looks pretty devastating with a big guy like that doing it lol I think Hogan was really good at knowing his audience and when to and when not to have a certain type of match.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Looking back, I have mostly positive feelings about his nostalgia run. It was short and sweet. Didn't overstay it's welcome and he was made to do the job on his way out (willingly or unwillingly) when Brock annihilated him on RAW. He came back for that match with Vince, and then later, Shawn and Randy, but for me 2002 is where his full-time career ended.

Rock and Hogan actually had a rematch of that WrestleMania 18 match at No Way Out 2003. But surprisingly no one seems to recall it even happened. Although tbf I have no memory of that match either eventhough I recall seeing it.
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Trips has yet to end his own nostalgia run since the past 10-15 years
 
shaz619 said:
Yeah it was around 2005/2006 probably about 10 years earlier, I think he did have some weird views but I don’t feel he was like full on KKK
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This feels like something from that reality show he was doing at one point with his family. Hogan Knows Best
 
shaz619 said:
Yeah it was around 2005/2006 probably about 10 years earlier, I think he did have some weird views but I don’t feel he was like full on KKK
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Yeah he wasn't too bad. These dudes grew up in different times and worked in a proper red neck industry lol. Hard to be politically correct all the time.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Interested to know what your guys' favorite Hogan match is.

I’m going with a slightly different pick: Hulk Hogan vs. Goldberg on Nitro at the Georgia Dome for the WCW World Heavyweight Championship.

When Hogan was motivated, you could just tell. Apparently, it was his idea to put over Goldberg in front of a packed Atlanta crowd, Goldberg’s hometown, no less. I don’t know if it was a case of Hogan wanting to soak up some of Goldberg’s momentum or if he genuinely wanted to do something positive, but either way, he helped make Goldberg an even bigger star that night. The crowd was absolutely electric. It created one of the most iconic wrestling moments of the 90s and helped launch Goldberg into the stratosphere.

His best match unquestionably has to be the match against Rock at WrestleMania 18. Besides the crowd reaction, he really did work a fantastic match. Like I said, when he was motivated you could just tell.

Honorable mention for favorite match: Hogan v Shawn at SummerSlam 2005, for all the wrong reasons.

One of his more underrated matches for me is probably the match he had with Vince at WrestleMania 19, but maybe that's just my nostalgia talking as I saw that match a very long time ago.
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Hogan vs The Rock, hands down. That is one of my most-watched matches of all time. Even though I am not a big Rock fan, I give him credit for putting on a fantastic match. Everything about the match was perfect. The staredown at the beginning, the crowd reaction, the match itself and then Hogan turning face after the match. That match perfectly describes the essence of professional wrestling for me.
 
It still makes me sad that Hogan vs Austin never happened at a Mania or anywhere. Surely, Vince could have convinced both of them. That was my biggest dream match as a kid back in the mid-2000s. Such a shame that it never happened.
 
The_KING said:
It still makes me sad that Hogan vs Austin never happened at a Mania or anywhere. Surely, Vince could have convinced both of them. That was my biggest dream match as a kid back in the mid-2000s. Such a shame that it never happened.
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Original plan for WrestleMania 18 was Austin v Hogan. But Austin was unwilling to work with Hogan because he didn't him. Especially after the Austin's experience of working alongside him when he was a midcarder in WCW. They pivoted to Hogan v Rock, which was the next biggest match. And personally I'm glad they did because I don't think Austin v Hogan would have been as good as Rock v Hogan. By 2002 Austin was battling injuries and his relationship with Vince was beginning to deteriorate.

For me, Austin//Hogan is another dream match liek Sting v Undertaker, that probably sounds better in our head then it would in practice.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Original plan for WrestleMania 18 was Austin v Hogan. But Austin was unwilling to work with Hogan because he didn't him. Especially after the Austin's experience of working alongside him when he was a midcarder in WCW. They pivoted to Hogan v Rock, which was the next biggest match. And personally I'm glad they did because I don't think Austin v Hogan would have been as good as Rock v Hogan. By 2002 Austin was battling injuries and his relationship with Vince was beginning to deteriorate.

For me, Austin//Hogan is another dream match liek Sting v Undertaker, that probably sounds better in our head then it would in practice.
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I am aware that they were meant to face in 2002, and I am glad that it didn't happen, as we got Rock vs Hogan, and that was a masterpiece.

But I wish we could have had a match between them around 2004-05. And I believe that Austin would have got a good match out of Hogan. Austin was too good a worker to have a stinker.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
Yeah he wasn't too bad. These dudes grew up in different times and worked in a proper red neck industry lol. Hard to be politically correct all the time.
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The problems fans have had with him revolve around what a compulsive liar he has been in recent times, whenever he is interviewed as Hogan or showing up to promote something, the guy just makes stuff up. You look at stars like Undertaker & Austin, wrestling fans are aware that they lean towards the right on the political spectrum but they are still loved because they are generally quiet decent, I am not saying Terry isn’t, but Hogan unfortunately never came across that way post retirement.
 
Wrestling fans are some of the worst sub-human trash you'll ever come across. Pointing out Hogan was a racist can now lead to you getting verbally abused online and receiving death threats. Some of these incels desperately need to move out of their parents' basement and go touch some grass. Just because someone has died doesn't mean you completely ignore the type of person they were when they lived.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1948749141959413847

https://twitter.com/x/status/1948929729643282825
 
BunnyRabbit said:
@RedwoodOriginal @shaz619
so it was real.
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Thanks for sharing this, widely rumoured to be true & confirmed by everyone but not Taker & Shawn didn’t know until now, he was never bs’ing people about it in the 2000’s. My respect for Taker has gone up a million times more, that he valued his relationship with Shawn this much not to tell him the truth.

Honestly, I don’t think Shawn was not going to do business, if he agreed to something beforehand, he was a professional in the ring, never went into business for himself. It’s a miracle that Shawn could work WM that year to begin with, I don’t anybody realised how much pain he was in. I would have liked to see the two discuss his back injury in more detail and how much Taker himself knew about it, you can make a movie about that little period between RR & WM.
 
shaz619 said:
Thanks for sharing this, widely rumoured to be true & confirmed by everyone but not Taker & Shawn didn’t know until now, he was never bs’ing people about it in the 2000’s. My respect for Taker has gone up a million times more, that he valued his relationship with Shawn this much not to tell him the truth.

Honestly, I don’t think Shawn was not going to do business, if he agreed to something beforehand, he was a professional in the ring, never went into business for himself. It’s a miracle that Shawn could work WM that year to begin with, I don’t anybody realised how much pain he was in. I would have liked to see the two discuss his back injury in more detail and how much Taker himself knew about it, you can make a movie about that little period between RR & WM.
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Everything is great, every relationship gets healed up. Fans love everything except Taker bringing Mccool to his podcast. :ROFLMAO:
 
BunnyRabbit said:
Everything is great, every relationship gets healed up. Fans love everything except Taker bringing Mccool to his podcast. :ROFLMAO:
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shaz619 said:
She follows him everywhere 👀
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Lol this chick has taken nepotism to a whole new level. Now we are supposed to pretend like she was some great pioneer for women's wrestling. Girl, I saw all the bikini contests you were a part of :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Lol this chick has taken nepotism to a whole new level. Now we are supposed to pretend like she was some great pioneer for women's wrestling. Girl, I saw all the bikini contests you were a part of :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
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I did enjoy her first run as Diva’s champion lol But come on, she is the real Becky Hogan 🤣 I still feel sorry for what happened with Mickie James on LFG, even Taker was unhappy about that lol I think she is also keeping a closer eye on Taker due to his reputation backstage from back in the day :afridi Taker had a similar rep as Punk did aha
 
@RedwoodOriginal I actually enjoyed her ring-work more, I don’t know, maybe something was wrong with me lol but I couldn’t look past the following when it came to the gown contests: Dawn Marie, Torrie, Stacy & Sable.
 
@RedwoodOriginal Do you think AEW should have done more with the Hogan tribute ? Nice tribute from Schiavone though, the video done a huge number on YT; it seems like a missed opportunity for them, they could have at the least, done a bit more to sell their product to newer fans. Plus Hogan was a huge name for TNT & inherently represents everything AEW would like to achieve (during the peak WCW years anyway) as a big rival / alternate to the WWF/E.
 
shaz619 said:
@RedwoodOriginal I actually enjoyed her ring-work more, I don’t know, maybe something was wrong with me lol but I couldn’t look past the following when it came to the gown contests: Dawn Marie, Torrie, Stacy & Sable.
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IMO Mccool was a decent talker and decent worker. but that's about it. After Trish, Lita and Mickie James, Melina etc, there was a void of good female workers till AJ lee came around. Beth Phoenix and Natalya worked better than Mccool, Kaitlyn and Maryse etc.
 
BunnyRabbit said:
Everything is great, every relationship gets healed up. Fans love everything except Taker bringing Mccool to his podcast. :ROFLMAO:
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I used to love Taker's podcast with the other dude. They had great chemistry. It's sad to see that WWE have control over Taker's podcast, and now we have to put up with Taker's untalented wife. :mad:
 
Nikhil_cric said:
This was confirmed over 23 years ago by Taker himself on "Off The Record" with Michael Landsberg and that's if you don't believe Meltzer in the first place .


19:10 onwards.
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The difference between how Taker used to talk back then and now is light years. Now he talks like a very down to earth, humble, easy going sort of guy, while in that video, he may be relaxed but you can feel the intimidation and hardassery from Taker.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
Don't think that's right. Many of the things written in the Observer over the years have mostly been proven to be true.
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Back in the day, Meltzer had some integrity and objectivity to his reporting. I've read alot of Observers from the past and alot of the stuff he reported ended up being true, or close to it (plans change, pal). In recent years though, he has gone completely off the deep-end in an attempt to hold on to his subscriber base, as wrestling has gotten less mainstream, and more niche.

Even his star rating system has become a joke. Back in the day, matches like Hogan v Rock got 3 stars while other instant classics like Angle v Shawn didn't get the fabled 5 star rating. Now he seems to be throwing out 4 star ratings every week.
 
shaz619 said:
I did enjoy her first run as Diva’s champion lol But come on, she is the real Becky Hogan 🤣 I still feel sorry for what happened with Mickie James on LFG, even Taker was unhappy about that lol I think she is also keeping a closer eye on Taker due to his reputation backstage from back in the day :afridi Taker had a similar rep as Punk did aha
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Only thing I remember is her and Layla doing a thing where they were basically bulldozing through the women's division.

Only thing I remember besides the other thing I already pointed out:djb
 
Nikhil_cric said:
This was confirmed over 23 years ago by Taker himself on "Off The Record" with Michael Landsberg and that's if you don't believe Meltzer in the first place .


19:10 onwards.
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I don’t remember him doing this interview, but this was probably what really gave the myth so much ammunition during the 2000’s opposed to what was written in the Observer. This might have been the only other time he open discussed the incident.
 
BunnyRabbit said:
The difference between how Taker used to talk back then and now is light years. Now he talks like a very down to earth, humble, easy going sort of guy, while in that video, he may be relaxed but you can feel the intimidation and hardassery from Taker.
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Back then, even during interviews he was always maintaining kayfabe. Right now, he can finally be himself and show the world who Mark is. Interesting comments on the dressing room environment he wanted to change compared to the 80’s & 90’s.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Back in the day, Meltzer had some integrity and objectivity to his reporting. I've read alot of Observers from the past and alot of the stuff he reported ended up being true, or close to it (plans change, pal). In recent years though, he has gone completely off the deep-end in an attempt to hold on to his subscriber base, as wrestling has gotten less mainstream, and more niche.

Even his star rating system has become a joke. Back in the day, matches like Hogan v Rock got 3 stars while other instant classics like Angle v Shawn didn't get the fabled 5 star rating. Now he seems to be throwing out 4 star ratings every week.
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Fair enough. Ive only read Meltzer until '07 or so. Was mainly referring to that era
 
The_KING said:
I used to love Taker's podcast with the other dude. They had great chemistry. It's sad to see that WWE have control over Taker's podcast, and now we have to put up with Taker's untalented wife. :mad:
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I know right like what the hell, they can’t even do their own podcast, this is certainly something written into all the recent contracts they’ve issued.
 
shaz619 said:
@RedwoodOriginal Do you think AEW should have done more with the Hogan tribute ? Nice tribute from Schiavone though, the video done a huge number on YT; it seems like a missed opportunity for them, they could have at the least, done a bit more to sell their product to newer fans. Plus Hogan was a huge name for TNT & inherently represents everything AEW would like to achieve (during the peak WCW years anyway) as a big rival / alternate to the WWF/E.
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Yet to see Collision. TBH that show has basically become an extended version of Rampage. Endless matches that nobody cares about. But I'll check this out and report back. AEW and TK have very publicly expressed their displeasure for Hogan in the past even saying that he was "banned for AEW shows", so it wouldn't surprise me.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
Don't think that's right. Many of the things written in the Observer over the years have mostly been proven to be true.
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Meltzer was good until he began to forge relationships with wrestlers & his bias began to shine through massively, he use to be a massive HBK mark until he got to be friends with Bret, a guy who he will rarely talk down when putting over the spot monkeys of today over every legend in wrestling. Kurt Angle to this day doesn’t have a 5* match according to him, HBK vs Angle was rated a 4.75 as well from WM 21, that was when I stopped taking him seriously and it has been downhill ever since.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
This was confirmed over 23 years ago by Taker himself on "Off The Record" with Michael Landsberg and that's if you don't believe Meltzer in the first place .


19:10 onwards.
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This show apparently created quite a stir back then, because of some controversial things Landsberg was able to get wrestlers to admit on the show. I found out about it many years later. Apparently it was a Canadian show. Plus this was long before the time of shoot interviews so I imagine these kind of candid interviews were not that common. May have been the first place Bret spoke in detail about the Montreal Screwjob.
 
It still pisses me off that the first Taker-HBK match at Mania didn't get 5 stars. We all know if that match took place in Tokyo, he would have given it 7 stars. I stopped taking Melzer seriously after that.
 
shaz619 said:
I don’t remember him doing this interview, but this was probably what really gave the myth so much ammunition during the 2000’s opposed to what was written in the Observer. This might have been the only other time he open discussed the incident.
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This show "Off The Record" was mostly wrestlers being themselves . Not much kayfabe. TSN was WWE's Canadian broadcast partner so naturally rest of the world didn't see it until YT and such.

I don't think it was a myth at all. I think crazy old Jim Cornette or someone else had actually told this story even earlier.

I'm sure the host got that story from someone like Jim.

@RedwoodOriginal @BunnyRabbit

watch old seasons of this show with The Rock , Austin, Bret, Jericho, Edge, Heyman, Bischoff etc. if you get the time

Some very interesting stuff there
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
This show apparently created quite a stir back then, because of some controversial things Landsberg was able to get wrestlers to admit on the show. I found out about it many years later. Apparently it was a Canadian show. Plus this was long before the time of shoot interviews so I imagine these kind of candid interviews were not that common. May have been the first place Bret spoke in detail about the Montreal Screwjob.
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Precisely. But first shoot interviews on syndicated television and thankfully available to us because of that.

Shoot interviews in radio shows across Europe , Japan and America and even magazines did exist but those are ridiculously difficult to access or completely lost forever

We know this because wrestlers were often punished by being taken off TV etc.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
This show "Off The Record" was mostly wrestlers being themselves . Not much kayfabe. TSN was WWE's Canadian broadcast partner so naturally rest of the world didn't see it until YT and such.

I don't think it was a myth at all. I think crazy old Jim Cornette or someone else had actually told this story even earlier.

I'm sure the host got that story from someone like Jim.

@RedwoodOriginal @BunnyRabbit

watch old seasons of this show with The Rock , Austin, Bret, Jericho, Edge, Heyman, Bischoff etc. if you get the time

Some very interesting stuff there
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I've seen alot of eps you mentioned. The ones with Vince and Hogan are also interesting. Apparently now the whole archive is up on YT, so I'll definitely be checking out the ones I haven't seen. Here's the link incase anyone else is interested:

youtube.com

TSN - Off The Record - Wrestling Interviews - The Complete Collection (1997-2015)

Teile deine Videos mit Freunden, Verwandten oder der ganzen Welt
youtube.com youtube.com
 
Nikhil_cric said:
Precisely. But first shoot interviews on syndicated television and thankfully available to us because of that.

Shoot interviews in radio shows across Europe , Japan and America and even magazines did exist but those are ridiculously difficult to access or completely lost forever

We know this because wrestlers were often punished by being taken off TV etc.
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Do you remember Byte This? WWE’s attempt at an unscripted, non-kayfabe show during the mid-2000s, as they were trying to establish an online presence. I haven’t seen much of it myself, but it was probably one of the first instances where WWE acknowledged the existence of smart fans online and made an effort to appeal to them.

It had some interesting moments too. Like Matt Hardy actually calling on the show to talk about how Lita had cheated on him with Edge. Which indirectly kicked off one of my favorite storylines from that era:sarf2
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Do you remember Byte This? WWE’s attempt at an unscripted, non-kayfabe show during the mid-2000s, as they were trying to establish an online presence. I haven’t seen much of it myself, but it was probably one of the first instances where WWE acknowledged the existence of smart fans online and made an effort to appeal to them.

It had some interesting moments too. Like Matt Hardy actually calling on the show to talk about how Lita had cheated on him with Edge. Which indirectly kicked off one of my favorite storylines from that era:sarf2
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Searched for it but it wasn't even on the network when I had the subscription. At least I don't remember seeing. That is the only episode (Matt and Lita) that I've seen.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
Fair enough. Ive only read Meltzer until '07 or so. Was mainly referring to that era
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And he's fallen off the hill since AEW became a thing. He just gives everyone 5 stars matches these days on AEW and NJPW and does mental gymnastics when 99% of his reports turn out to be false these days. Some times he gives excuses like WWE specifically changed a plan just to spite him. And he makes bogus claims like Evil and Sanada are better wrestlers than Taker ever was. When someone from WWE like Roman does a standard match, he says his moveset is limited, yet when Tanahashi does it, he says its art. Another funny thing, he says Kurt Angle never had a 5star match and all the matches he gives 5 stars to these days are better than Kurt's career. Another funny thing, Daniel bryan didn't have a single 5 star match in his entire 20 year career yet the moment he stepped into AEW, he was having 5 and 6 star matches every week. These are just some of the things I am stating from the top of my head, It's pretty evident that he's on some payroll of Tony Khan.
 
BunnyRabbit said:
And he's fallen off the hill since AEW became a thing. He just gives everyone 5 stars matches these days on AEW and NJPW and does mental gymnastics when 99% of his reports turn out to be false these days. Some times he gives excuses like WWE specifically changed a plan just to spite him. And he makes bogus claims like Evil and Sanada are better wrestlers than Taker ever was. When someone from WWE like Roman does a standard match, he says his moveset is limited, yet when Tanahashi does it, he says its art. Another funny thing, he says Kurt Angle never had a 5star match and all the matches he gives 5 stars to these days are better than Kurt's career. Another funny thing, Daniel bryan didn't have a single 5 star match in his entire 20 year career yet the moment he stepped into AEW, he was having 5 and 6 star matches every week. These are just some of the things I am stating from the top of my head, It's pretty evident that he's on some payroll of Tony Khan.
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Very likely, from what you've said. He probably is on their payroll.

He has lost his niche from the days when he was the only with sources in locker rooms to give us insider info.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
Searched for it but it wasn't even on the network when I had the subscription. At least I don't remember seeing. That is the only episode (Matt and Lita) that I've seen.
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So I searched for it on YT and there are some eps and clips. Found some pretty amusing stuff, things I never would've imagined getting referenced on WWE TV back then :wahab2




@shaz619 Get a load of this :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 
Nikhil_cric said:
Very likely, from what you've said. He probably is on their payroll.

He has lost his niche from the days when he was the only with sources in locker rooms to give us insider info.
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Plus he's simply lost all his credibility that he acquired over 2 decades. Whatever he says now, is no different to what other dirtsheets or random twitter accounts are posting. Always to be taken with a pinch of salt.
 
Man Lyra Valkyria is such an unlikeable babyface. First they turned Becky on her, now they'll probably do the same with Bayley. They want to tell us how goodygood Lyra is when she's bland and generic.
 
BunnyRabbit said:
Man Lyra Valkyria is such an unlikeable babyface. First they turned Becky on her, now they'll probably do the same with Bayley. They want to tell us how goodygood Lyra is when she's bland and generic.
Click to expand...
I think she's talented in the ring. But I absolutely hate her as a personality. At first I thought they were doing a heel turn but now I'm mostly just confused whether she's a babyface or a heel
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
I think she's talented in the ring. But I absolutely hate her as a personality. At first I thought they were doing a heel turn but now I'm mostly just confused whether she's a babyface or a heel
Click to expand...
she's awful. awful personality, pathetic promos. they're trying to shove down the throats of fans by meshing up with Bayley and Becky and booking her to look better. Every other female is a good in ring worker these days.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
So I searched for it on YT and there are some eps and clips. Found some pretty amusing stuff, things I never would've imagined getting referenced on WWE TV back then :wahab2




@shaz619 Get a load of this :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
Click to expand...

I remember Byte This & especially those TNA callers, Todd Grisham was hilarious lol

I remember this even from that time:


The dream match we got robbed by death, for us purists this could have been match of the century. Nice little interaction.

If we’re peeling back the curtain, this was the right way to do it with wrestlers who could be trusted with maintaining integrity. They launched the 24/7 service around this time as well which you could sign up for to check out archive footage, Vince was always 15-20 years ahead of everyone else, this provided the platform for the WWE Network. I couldn’t access the archives due to being in the UK, but they agreed to a deal with Sky to do weekly re-runs of programming from various territories which introduced me to the likes of The Four Horseman, Ricky Steamboat, Terry Funk, Psicisis & La Parka because I remember they would often show the World’s Collide event from the 90’s, I was so confused by how WWE were able to show it, but I didn’t know that as it was a WCW produced event, WWE through owning their library had the rights; around the same time Vince probably became interested in targeting the Latino market.

​

 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Looks like they are going to expose the business like it's never been exposed before.

Side-note: I've thought for a long time that Michael Hayes is an idiot and a dinosaur, who shouldn't be in key creative positions anymore

https://twitter.com/x/status/1950121053453213993
Click to expand...
Michael Hayes is one of the better match producers they have alongside Jamie Noble. Think he's just doing the lip service for Trips here. We know trips is the one who made the decision to give Jey the win and won't take the blame for it or how it was all handled afterwards.
 
shaz619 said:
People think Hogan was a bad guy, man, they have no idea about Warrior
Click to expand...
I think he has to be one of the most despicable, entitled and unprofessional people to ever work for Vince and that's saying something. Hogan doesn't even begin to scratch the surface, when compared to him.

Not to mention, he was absolutely dog$hit in the ring, even for that era's standards.

I'm glad he acknowledged the error of his ways (to an extent) towards the end, and made amends. But I don't think people will just forget the person he was anytime soon, or remember him fondly, unless they watched him as kids.

I actually quite enjoyed the hit-piece documentary WWE created on him. The Self-Destruction of the Ultimate Warrior. Very entertaining watch.

One positive thing I'll say is that his last promo (right before his death) was wonderful. It may even be the only coherent promo he ever cut on the mic.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
I think he has to be one of the most despicable, entitled and unprofessional people to ever work for Vince and that's saying something. Hogan doesn't even begin to scratch the surface, when compared to him.

Not to mention, he was absolutely dog$hit in the ring, even for that era's standards.

I'm glad he acknowledged the error of his ways (to an extent) towards the end, and made amends. But I don't think people will just forget the person he was anytime soon, or remember him fondly, unless they watched him as kids.

I actually quite enjoyed the hit-piece documentary WWE created on him. The Self-Destruction of the Ultimate Warrior. Very entertaining watch.

One positive thing I'll say is that his last promo (right before his death) was wonderful. It may even be the only coherent promo he ever cut on the mic.
Click to expand...
Jimmy Snuka as well
 
BunnyRabbit said:
Michael Hayes is one of the better match producers they have alongside Jamie Noble. Think he's just doing the lip service for Trips here. We know trips is the one who made the decision to give Jey the win and won't take the blame for it or how it was all handled afterwards.
Click to expand...
Guys like Hayes and Bruce Prichard are Vince loyalists and yes men. The biggest reason why they have survived in this company for so long is by kissing a$$ and personally it's hard for me to respect people like that. Everything I have ever heard or read about them from people who have worked with them has been on similar lines. Ofcourse that doesn't mean that they don't have experience, or valuable input. But it just surprises me that they have managed to hold on to their jobs for as long as they have. I don't believe it's because of the creative geniuses they are. I'm sure there are a number of younger ex-wrestlers who could step into these positions and offer something better.

Bruce Prichard is someone I don't like at all. Because I used to listen to his podcast a fair bit a few years ago. And all the time it was the same thing: never saying anything controversial, never saying anything remotely critical of Vince. Everything was just non answers and treading the company line like a corporate tool. And this is back when he wasn't even employed by WWE.

I'm not saying that Hayes and Prichard don't have their contributions. Hayes in particular was part of one of the greatest factions of all-time The Freebirds, and I'm sure Prichard has had his hands on alot of important things over the years. But now it very much feels like they are products of a bygone era.
 
shaz619 said:
I remember Byte This & especially those TNA callers, Todd Grisham was hilarious lol

I remember this even from that time:


The dream match we got robbed by death, for us purists this could have been match of the century. Nice little interaction.

If we’re peeling back the curtain, this was the right way to do it with wrestlers who could be trusted with maintaining integrity. They launched the 24/7 service around this time as well which you could sign up for to check out archive footage, Vince was always 15-20 years ahead of everyone else, this provided the platform for the WWE Network. I couldn’t access the archives due to being in the UK, but they agreed to a deal with Sky to do weekly re-runs of programming from various territories which introduced me to the likes of The Four Horseman, Ricky Steamboat, Terry Funk, Psicisis & La Parka because I remember they would often show the World’s Collide event from the 90’s, I was so confused by how WWE were able to show it, but I didn’t know that as it was a WCW produced event, WWE through owning their library had the rights; around the same time Vince probably became interested in targeting the Latino market.

​

Click to expand...
Agreed. Couldn't have summed it up any better. Vince's foresight was the biggest reason for his success. Throughout history you see this beginning with the national expansion and the inception of WrestleMania all the way up to the creation WWE Network. Vince always found a way to adapt and evolve and it's those moves that have made WWE into the multi-billion dollar powerhouse that it is today.
 
shaz619 said:
I remember Byte This & especially those TNA callers, Todd Grisham was hilarious lol

I remember this even from that time:


The dream match we got robbed by death, for us purists this could have been match of the century. Nice little interaction.

If we’re peeling back the curtain, this was the right way to do it with wrestlers who could be trusted with maintaining integrity. They launched the 24/7 service around this time as well which you could sign up for to check out archive footage, Vince was always 15-20 years ahead of everyone else, this provided the platform for the WWE Network. I couldn’t access the archives due to being in the UK, but they agreed to a deal with Sky to do weekly re-runs of programming from various territories which introduced me to the likes of The Four Horseman, Ricky Steamboat, Terry Funk, Psicisis & La Parka because I remember they would often show the World’s Collide event from the 90’s, I was so confused by how WWE were able to show it, but I didn’t know that as it was a WCW produced event, WWE through owning their library had the rights; around the same time Vince probably became interested in targeting the Latino market.

​

Click to expand...
Just to add to that - One of the smartest things about Vince was that he was always asking, how can my product reach the maximum number of people? That mindset shaped nearly every major move he made. It began with swallowing up the regional territories, which gave WWE access to a wide network of local TV stations across the U.S. Then it was about putting WrestleMania on closed-circuit television, which was a massive gamble that turned into a major success. He partnered with MTV for the Rock 'n' Wrestling Connection, which pulled in a younger demographic and gave them mainstream exposure. Vince was also ahead of the curve in international syndication, pushing WWE programming into overseas markets at a time when most wrestling promoters didn’t think beyond their local arenas. Decades later, as you pointed out, he anticipated the streaming revolution by launching the WWE Network, giving fans global, on-demand access to WWE content long before others embraced streaming platforms. More than building a wrestling company, the guy was building a global media empire by always staying one step ahead in how people consumed content.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
I think he has to be one of the most despicable, entitled and unprofessional people to ever work for Vince and that's saying something. Hogan doesn't even begin to scratch the surface, when compared to him.

Not to mention, he was absolutely dog$hit in the ring, even for that era's standards.

I'm glad he acknowledged the error of his ways (to an extent) towards the end, and made amends. But I don't think people will just forget the person he was anytime soon, or remember him fondly, unless they watched him as kids.

I actually quite enjoyed the hit-piece documentary WWE created on him. The Self-Destruction of the Ultimate Warrior. Very entertaining watch.

One positive thing I'll say is that his last promo (right before his death) was wonderful. It may even be the only coherent promo he ever cut on the mic.
Click to expand...

Just as a human being and his thoughts on others were pretty deplorable. Yeah you are right about his ring work, maybe it’s about time people give Hogan more credit for his abilities for getting that classic main-event out of him at WM6, however, objectively, he was charismatic & arguably the best squash wrestler ever and I write off all his sins for his great deed at WM12.

Yeah, he did mellow significantly towards the end and made up with everybody, he was among a few to bat constantly for the WWE production staff as well quiet openly in public. This might be bleak, but the pessimist in me feels as though Warrior staged his own death to leave on a high, he was such a huge mark of his own gimmick that I don’t think it’s far fetched.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Just to add to that - One of the smartest things about Vince was that he was always asking, how can my product reach the maximum number of people? That mindset shaped nearly every major move he made. It began with swallowing up the regional territories, which gave WWE access to a wide network of local TV stations across the U.S. Then it was about putting WrestleMania on closed-circuit television, which was a massive gamble that turned into a major success. He partnered with MTV for the Rock 'n' Wrestling Connection, which pulled in a younger demographic and gave them mainstream exposure. Vince was also ahead of the curve in international syndication, pushing WWE programming into overseas markets at a time when most wrestling promoters didn’t think beyond their local arenas. Decades later, as you pointed out, he anticipated the streaming revolution by launching the WWE Network, giving fans global, on-demand access to WWE content long before others embraced streaming platforms. More than building a wrestling company, the guy was building a global media empire by always staying one step ahead in how people consumed content.
Click to expand...

Wonderful post, I still haven’t finished the documentary yet but I hope it touches on the points you’ve highlighted. He came up with the PPV model used in other sports arenas as well. It’s amusing for H to even dare to dream that he can fill his boots, he’s much better being compared to a PIA employee given his antics, I haven’t seen the unseen episode yet but from what I’ve seen on social media, it seems like H has succeeded in burying himself with his own golden shovel.
 
This card looks far better than what we actually got. Punk winning the World title against Gunther would have been epic. It's a shame they went the other route. Gave Jey Uso a largely pointless World title reign and unnecessarily buried Gunther in the process. And as good as the three-way was, an unfortunate by-product of that match was the Rollins faction, which has largely been a flop. Also would have loved the US title and IC title Ladder matches because multi-man ladder matches used to be such an iconic staple of WrestleMania that I used to love.

www.f4wonline.com

WWE News: Steve Austin’s original role for WWE WrestleMania 41 detailed

According to scenes in WWE Unreal, WWE wanted Steve Austin to play a larger role at WrestleMania 41.
www.f4wonline.com www.f4wonline.com
 
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