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The Wrestling Discussion Thread

BunnyRabbit said:
I never thought I'd see RVD become a shadow of himself in the ring. Man age catches up with everyone.
He is one of a kind. No one in the history has possessed the wrestling style like him.
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If you look at RVD even now in isolation, he fits in with the rest, our standards are that low, however, he’s clearly not going to be 2002 RVD….
 
BunnyRabbit said:
When Dwayne got challenged by being stale, he created one of the best characters of recent time in pro wrestling, the final boss and ended up giving us the best Mania build up in over a decade. When Noseley got challenged, he ended up having Travis Scott costing Cody the title in main event of Mania. Let that sink in. Trips doesn't even come close to The Rock in terms of wrestling creativity. If Austin and Dwayne hadn't left WWE in 2004, Noseley wouldn't have risen to the reign of terror.
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This is what I mean, I mean he is defo a weirdo and @RedwoodOriginal should rightfully diss him like Brian Last, but there are levels to this and H is not fit to carry Dwayne’s ruck sack so he should have been more respectful and shown better leadership to then get more out of him….
 
shaz619 said:
Don’t hurt my hopes for the smashing machine bro 🤣, I love a good combat movie, if he messes this up, I don’t know what to say
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Bro, I'm just telling you what I saw in the trailer. It looked like a weird movie. I hope I am wrong because I am a fan of Benny Safdie. I love Good Time and Uncut Gems is just a masterpiece.
 
shaz619 said:
If you look at RVD even now in isolation, he fits in with the rest, our standards are that low, however, he’s clearly not going to be 2002 RVD….
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Tbh I saw RVD in AEW a couple of years ago and he looked pretty good for his age. He can definitely still have proper matches where he can do some of his signature stuff, if not all of it. I think when it comes to fitness and athleticism, RVD may be one of the best in the recent history of the business. Just his leg strength alone was quite remarkable. I think only Orton can match up to those quads
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Tbh I saw RVD in AEW a couple of years ago and he looked pretty good for his age. He can definitely still have proper matches where he can do some of his signature stuff, if not all of it. I think when it comes to fitness and athleticism, RVD may be one of the best in the recent history of the business. Just his leg strength alone was quite remarkable. I think only Orton can match up to those quads
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This is what I mean he can still go in todays world and he hasn’t lost his agility completely, it’s fair to say we both hate the style of work in this era and an innovator like RVD or a Punk or Gunther remind us bygone times. I am glad RVD flipped H though, although I am sure Cena/RVD would have killed it again if the rumours are true……
 
shaz619 said:
Honestly it comes down to preference because Punk understands his audience so well and can manipulate the creative as needed to achieve the best results, and his WWE run arguably has been equally special, also when you consider the constraints & dealing with Triple Doofus, we also need to appreciate how disciplined Punk has been and he has literally tried to accommodate the demands of the system as much as possible, he has kept his worst instincts & demons at bay and the structure has helped there and I imagine a boat load of cash to.

Punk is a top 5 all timer, just look at how mediocre the build was for his match with Gunther, and this match / moment changed everything:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1951907256317936025

Despite the horrible programming lately, CM Punk is driving the company literally, whether at live events or at TV, there are complaints about how limited screen time he’s getting and the fans appreciate his work a great deal, I mean it’s what I mainly look forward to every week and skip 90% off everything else.

With that being said, for me personally, and I said this during the AEW stint & before his WWE run began, as an all-round performer, he was producing the best performances & storylines since Shawn Michaels in the early 2000’s. Punk had the freedom to show his range & my god the promo’s & matches were some of the best we have ever seen, it’s just a shame that we never got to explore a full program beyond the one with MJF & WWE have kind of rectified that with Drew especially & maybe Seth although I am sick of Darth Burius v2, but the individual promo’s, matches & characterisation were phenomenal really, if he hung around there a tad longer, he probably could have been the biggest heel in wrestling.

But Punk has such a high ring IQ that he has adjusted for the global wrestling fanbase, he looks fantastic, he has accounted for his brutal schedule by working a lot smarter & he prioritises the ring psychology as much as he possibly can & gets the most out of his opponents evidently before they get lost in the shuffle again because of how clueless H is. The 2000’s indie mark in me saw the best template of how that wrestling philosophy could work with some tweaks & draw a bit of cash before Coke Khan took that away from me, now this run is still special and it represents everything a pro-wrestler should be, ignoring how Punk should be booked even stronger, but we’ve seen the end of that 2000’s indie / RA wrestling style, we may see it every now & then like we did with Gunther, but am afraid AEW can’t remotely make up for the loss off Punk.
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MJF v Punk for the World title would have been phenomenal. Which is what they seemed to be hinting at before Brawl Out happened. AEW still has talents like MJF, Swerve, Christian, Darby Allin---Kyle Fletcher and Konosuke Takeshita are amazing prospects for the future---and a few others who can deliver if they are in the right program with the right person. But these days even that has become really rare. One aspect about the decline of AEW has been how homogenized the style of wrestling has become which is basically fast-paced, video-game wrestling where everyone does crazy moves and kicks out of everything. Which is disappointing because at one point, AEW really was showcasing a lot of different styles of wrestling on the same show. And as you pointed out, it's not like WWE is any good either unless you have someone like Gunther, Orton or Punk in the ring. Drew is pretty good too but I feel he has to be in the ring with the right opponent. He's not at the level of a Gunther where he can drag anyone to a decent and logical match. Speaking of whom, there are not enough adjectives to sum up how great Gunther is. Someone like him only comes around once in a generation. Punk is great but obviously is at the tail-end of his pro-wrestling career. If nothing else, I am excited to see Gunther and how his career pans out. I think there are some big-money future programs out there between him and guys like Brock, Roman, Jacob Fatu, Bron Breakker, Dragunov, KO. Rey (?). Him vs. the likes of Punk, Cody, McIntyre, Sami Zayn are definitely worth revisiting. Perhaps one day maybe even Gunther v Oba Femi. I mean the options are just endless with this guy. I also sincerely hope that we get to see Gunther v AJ before AJ retires because that will be incredible if both are given the time to do their thing.

As for AEW, no they really can't. The firing of Punk was the turning point and no matter what they tell themselves, things will never be the same again. What's even funnier to me though is that the people that Tony seemingly chose over Punk; guys like The Young Bucks, Jack Perry and their whole merry band of misfits are completely dead in the water. The Young Bucks have never meant less than they do now. They are completely irrelevant and even AEW fans just don't care about them or the grade school comedy skits they do. Their matches may have seemed unique back in 2018 but that kind of style that spits in the face of logic and common sense wears off very quickly. The only one of them who was of any use: Kenny Omega has destroyed his body to such an extent that he can't wrestle more than a match every few months. The empty-headed dumbfug cowboy still has some cache with this audience because he goes out and says stuff like he will "win the AEW Men's World Heavyweight title" lol. But this company is no longer in a place where it can grow or move forward. I'll keep watching because I've been watching for the past 5 years and despite all the disappointment they have put me through, I genuinely do want them to succeed. But I can't say its something I have particularly high hopes for.
 
shaz619 said:
This is what I mean he can still go in todays world and he hasn’t lost his agility completely, it’s fair to say we both hate the style of work in this era and an innovator like RVD or a Punk or Gunther remind us bygone times. I am glad RVD flipped H though, although I am sure Cena/RVD would have killed it again if the rumours are true……
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I feel that if anyone else tried to do that style it would be embarrassing. But RVD was just that damn talented. I think he is definitely someone who could have even been a top babyface because I don't recall if there was ever a time when he wasn't massively over. When he came to WWE in 2002 from ECW, I feel he was at his absolute peak physically and popularity-wise. Which ofcourse meant that HHH had to bring out his golden shovel and dig another shallow grave. But a large part of the blame falls on him too for blowing his opportunity when he finally got it. I mean there really is no excuse for getting busted for weed by the cops when you;re the freaking World Champion...eventhough that was just about the most RVD thing he could have done lol. :wahab2
 
shaz619 said:
This is what I mean he can still go in todays world and he hasn’t lost his agility completely, it’s fair to say we both hate the style of work in this era and an innovator like RVD or a Punk or Gunther remind us bygone times. I am glad RVD flipped H though, although I am sure Cena/RVD would have killed it again if the rumours are true……
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Btw I think the post you shared was from a parody account
 
BunnyRabbit said:
I'd take KO as champ over Seth any day of the week.
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KO wouldn't have been champion for more than a few weeks though. He would have likely had to relinquish the belt because he had his neck injury not long after Elimination Chamber. That would have put them in a really awkward position going into WrestleMania
 
BunnyRabbit said:
Noseley thinks this long running Seth Punk feud is this age's HBK-Trips feud but he couldn't be more wrong cause no one literally wants to see this feud continue now.
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You know there was a time at the beginning of the year when there actually was some excitement around the potential of this feud. Now it just feels like a virus that just keeps mutating instead of ending, because of Pinocchio's booking masterclass
 
shaz619 said:
The Rock’s a weirdo under Hollywood but there is no comparison between him and H who is completely responsible for his failed leadership, this guy tried to throw Cena under the bus, I mean does he really think he can rub his big nose in the faces of these much bigger stars and get away with it? The Rock became arguably the biggest star in wrestling history, he became a huge name in Hollywood and used that to take our sports popularity to new heights, he is a third generation talent, females on his side of the family have literally run entire wrestling territories ignoring what his dad and others achieved. Wrestling’s in his blood and it’s a cake walk for him which is why it’s always there no matter what happens in Hollywood, fans didn’t want the Hollywood face Rock but he created the Final Boss & has to this day, done a much better job building heat on Cody then anyone else, everything he has done on TV when in character has been phenomenal, we even got the Hollywood Heel Rock theme back.

If we never got the pay-off to x or there were issues with his appearances, I blame it all on H, if you rub any big star the wrong way, that’s not good leadership is it, after-all, H is clueless anyway and can’t be trusted creatively so I find it hard to feel any sympathy for him and ultimately he ruined the Wrestlemania main-event, something he has enjoyed doing in each decade of the 21st century.
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BunnyRabbit said:
When Dwayne got challenged by being stale, he created one of the best characters of recent time in pro wrestling, the final boss and ended up giving us the best Mania build up in over a decade. When Noseley got challenged, he ended up having Travis Scott costing Cody the title in main event of Mania. Let that sink in. Trips doesn't even come close to The Rock in terms of wrestling creativity. If Austin and Dwayne hadn't left WWE in 2004, Noseley wouldn't have risen to the reign of terror.
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For me, the fact that The Rock is lightyears ahead of Triple H interms of talent is what makes this even more infuriating. If he wanted to, and if he decided to put his ego aside, Rock really could help elevate the product. There are not many wrestlers in the history of the business who match up to his level of charisma and star power. The Final Boss character and the whole build to WrestleMania 40 is a perfect example of him using his cache to elevate the product. But instead he only chooses to only do stuff for self-serving reasons. Had it not been for the fans rabidly turning on him when he chose to just come in last year, insert him into that situation and set up a match with Roman Reigns, we may never even have gotten The Final Boss. You look at The Rock now and The Rock from even 2003 or 2004, when he entered Hollywood, and he is simply not the same person. Everything he does in public or private has to be filmed by a camera crew. As much as I may hate Triple H, the reality is that he simply has zero talent. So I can only hate him so much. Because as someone very smart once said the guy is like a 4/10.
 
@shaz619 @BunnyRabbit @Suleiman @The_KING

The promo sequel to the Austin v Rock WrestleMania 17 'My Way' promo. Also by Limp Bizkit. I doubt any single band cashed in from WWE as much as them back in the day lol.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1958936830432485602

In many ways, this match marked the end of an era. One hand you feel nostalgic seeing this, on the other hand you know wrestling will never live up to the highs of 2000-03.
 
shaz619 said:
Honestly it comes down to preference because Punk understands his audience so well and can manipulate the creative as needed to achieve the best results, and his WWE run arguably has been equally special, also when you consider the constraints & dealing with Triple Doofus, we also need to appreciate how disciplined Punk has been and he has literally tried to accommodate the demands of the system as much as possible, he has kept his worst instincts & demons at bay and the structure has helped there and I imagine a boat load of cash to.

Punk is a top 5 all timer, just look at how mediocre the build was for his match with Gunther, and this match / moment changed everything:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1951907256317936025

Despite the horrible programming lately, CM Punk is driving the company literally, whether at live events or at TV, there are complaints about how limited screen time he’s getting and the fans appreciate his work a great deal, I mean it’s what I mainly look forward to every week and skip 90% off everything else.

With that being said, for me personally, and I said this during the AEW stint & before his WWE run began, as an all-round performer, he was producing the best performances & storylines since Shawn Michaels in the early 2000’s. Punk had the freedom to show his range & my god the promo’s & matches were some of the best we have ever seen, it’s just a shame that we never got to explore a full program beyond the one with MJF & WWE have kind of rectified that with Drew especially & maybe Seth although I am sick of Darth Burius v2, but the individual promo’s, matches & characterisation were phenomenal really, if he hung around there a tad longer, he probably could have been the biggest heel in wrestling.

But Punk has such a high ring IQ that he has adjusted for the global wrestling fanbase, he looks fantastic, he has accounted for his brutal schedule by working a lot smarter & he prioritises the ring psychology as much as he possibly can & gets the most out of his opponents evidently before they get lost in the shuffle again because of how clueless H is. The 2000’s indie mark in me saw the best template of how that wrestling philosophy could work with some tweaks & draw a bit of cash before Coke Khan took that away from me, now this run is still special and it represents everything a pro-wrestler should be, ignoring how Punk should be booked even stronger, but we’ve seen the end of that 2000’s indie / RA wrestling style, we may see it every now & then like we did with Gunther, but am afraid AEW can’t remotely make up for the loss off Punk.
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:sarf_facepalm
https://twitter.com/x/status/1958865571908657230
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
@shaz619 @BunnyRabbit @Suleiman @The_KING

The promo sequel to the Austin v Rock WrestleMania 17 'My Way' promo. Also by Limp Bizkit. I doubt any single band cashed in from WWE as much as them back in the day lol.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1958936830432485602

In many ways, this match marked the end of an era. One hand you feel nostalgic seeing this, on the other hand you know wrestling will never live up to the highs of 2000-03.
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Links not opening for me but I think I already know what it is haha

Is their 3rd WM promo? That promo was almost if not just as good as the my way promo. Unfortunately YouTube keeps taking it down. 3rd time no longer about the belt but about feeling good enough and elite enough to still be considered legends realizing they have both reached their limit.

Edit: got it right 😎
 
Suleiman said:
Links not opening for me but I think I already know what it is haha

Is their 3rd WM promo? That promo was almost if not just as good as the my way promo. Unfortunately YouTube keeps taking it down. 3rd time no longer about the belt but about feeling good enough and elite enough to still be considered legends realizing they have both reached their limit.

Edit: got it right 😎
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WWE copyright hounds earning their paychecks I guess. I can't even recall how many times they have taken down that My Way promo lol.

Pretty good song too. Maybe its just because I associate this song with that era of wrestling but I sure do love it
 
I didn't see him wrestle after his wwe run till I saw him in AEW. And he wasn't 2006 RVD at that point. But yes, he's obviously still pretty good. But the style he wrestles, you simply can't do that stuff when you're 52
RedwoodOriginal said:
Tbh I saw RVD in AEW a couple of years ago and he looked pretty good for his age. He can definitely still have proper matches where he can do some of his signature stuff, if not all of it. I think when it comes to fitness and athleticism, RVD may be one of the best in the recent history of the business. Just his leg strength alone was quite remarkable. I think only Orton can match up to those quads
Click to expand...
 
shaz619 said:
This is what I mean he can still go in todays world and he hasn’t lost his agility completely, it’s fair to say we both hate the style of work in this era and an innovator like RVD or a Punk or Gunther remind us bygone times. I am glad RVD flipped H though, although I am sure Cena/RVD would have killed it again if the rumours are true……
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I hope RVD comes back for a match. I wanna see all of them legends back. Them over the 90% tripe of today's era.
It's so pathetic that during his heel run, Cena didn't brutalize Mysterio again. what a missed opportunity.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
KO wouldn't have been champion for more than a few weeks though. He would have likely had to relinquish the belt because he had his neck injury not long after Elimination Chamber. That would have put them in a really awkward position going into WrestleMania
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But no one had seen KO getting injured in future.
The thing is you need to be imaginative and make bold decisions timely at the right time. Something Noseley is bereft of.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
For me, the fact that The Rock is lightyears ahead of Triple H interms of talent is what makes this even more infuriating. If he wanted to, and if he decided to put his ego aside, Rock really could help elevate the product. There are not many wrestlers in the history of the business who match up to his level of charisma and star power. The Final Boss character and the whole build to WrestleMania 40 is a perfect example of him using his cache to elevate the product. But instead he only chooses to only do stuff for self-serving reasons. Had it not been for the fans rabidly turning on him when he chose to just come in last year, insert him into that situation and set up a match with Roman Reigns, we may never even have gotten The Final Boss. You look at The Rock now and The Rock from even 2003 or 2004, when he entered Hollywood, and he is simply not the same person. Everything he does in public or private has to be filmed by a camera crew. As much as I may hate Triple H, the reality is that he simply has zero talent. So I can only hate him so much. Because as someone very smart once said the guy is like a 4/10.
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Dwayne definitely doesn't like pro wrestling the way he used to. But the thing is he was built for this business rather than hollywood. And yes, he is another one who's become the polar opposite of what he used to be. These satanic leeches turn everyone into something they hate.
I think if Noseley wasn't the booker, Dwayne would have been more receptive to add to WWE considering he is a board member atm. But Noseley has this agenda of going 180 degrees to the idea of what someone else has pitched.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
@shaz619 @BunnyRabbit @Suleiman @The_KING

The promo sequel to the Austin v Rock WrestleMania 17 'My Way' promo. Also by Limp Bizkit. I doubt any single band cashed in from WWE as much as them back in the day lol.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1958936830432485602

In many ways, this match marked the end of an era. One hand you feel nostalgic seeing this, on the other hand you know wrestling will never live up to the highs of 2000-03.
Click to expand...
I think this match was the best of their Mania triology. It was a clean win for Dwayne. 17 was the more impactful mainevent, but the match was filled with Vince's shenanigans.
 
BunnyRabbit said:
But no one had seen KO getting injured in future.
The thing is you need to be imaginative and make bold decisions timely at the right time. Something Noseley is bereft of.
Click to expand...
??

He was going to get injured though, an injury for which those matches with Cody likely played a big part because his neck was taking the brunt of alot of those bumps. Had they gone with KO it would have put them in an embarrassing position because they would have had to switch the belt again when he eventually did get injured. And that too months before WrestleMania.

Also, what was the long-term plan of putting the belt on KO? None of this was ever explained. Doing a shocking thing just for the sake of doing a shocking thing is stupid and serves no purpose. That's Vince Russo booking.
 
BunnyRabbit said:
If he gets in some sort of shape then why not.
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Look at the state of him. He's been like this for atleast the last two years. At his age, how much better shape is he going to get in?

I guess the bigger question is, is he ready to stop pounding those bottles of Vodka he has clearly been hitting night and day?
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
??

He was going to get injured though, an injury for which those matches with Cody likely played a big part because his neck was taking the brunt of alot of those bumps. Had they gone with KO it would have put them in an embarrassing position because they would have had to switch the belt again when he eventually did get injured. And that too months before WrestleMania.

Also, what was the long-term plan of putting the belt on KO? None of this was ever explained. Doing a shocking thing just for the sake of doing a shocking thing is stupid and serves no purpose. That's Vince Russo booking.
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It would have still been a better decision than putting WHC title on Seth.
With KO, there was potential to take the story a lot of places, a title match with Sami where he could have actually won.
With Seth, it is just so much of a mechanical robotic booking that seems to be done by def rebel.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Look at the state of him. He's been like this for atleast the last two years. At his age, how much better shape is he going to get in?

I guess the bigger question is, is he ready to stop pounding those bottles of Vodka he has clearly been hitting night and day?
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Don't care what he's done in AEW. For WWE fans, it's pretty much like he'd be returning after 7 years. But he probably just likes the easy money TK gives him at this point.
For an athlete, it takes 3-4 months to get back in shape if he's motivated enough.
 
BunnyRabbit said:
I think this match was the best of their Mania triology. It was a clean win for Dwayne. 17 was the more impactful mainevent, but the match was filled with Vince's shenanigans.
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Personally, I found the WrestleMania 17 match to be far better. I don't include the post-match stuff because that happened after the match. But that said, I think this one was a really underrated and very good match. Austin putting Rock over clean felt like a thank you for all those years Rock made Austin look like a million bucks. These two always had great respect and camaraderie, and if I'm not wrong, it was Austin's idea to put Rock over clean, eventhough Austin was struggling significantly with injuries by this point with his full-time career essentially over, while Rock was out the door and on his way to Hollywood.
 
BunnyRabbit said:
Don't care what he's done in AEW. For WWE fans, it's pretty much like he'd be returning after 7 years. But he probably just likes the easy money TK gives him at this point.
For an athlete, it takes 3-4 months to get back in shape if he's motivated enough.
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Bro he's 54. How many elite athletes do you know that are 54 years old?
 
BunnyRabbit said:
It would have still been a better decision than putting WHC title on Seth.
With KO, there was potential to take the story a lot of places, a title match with Sami where he could have actually won.
With Seth, it is just so much of a mechanical robotic booking that seems to be done by def rebel.
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Don't see how the two are related. Seth won a different belt. KO would have been vying for the Undisputed WWE Championship. Also, how would KO have dropped the belt to Sami if he had a neck injury so serious that he couldn't wrestle at all? If KO's injury wasn't as serious as it has been reported to be, he would have wrestled the match against Orton at WrestleMania and then gone away.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Personally, I found the WrestleMania 17 match to be far better. I don't include the post-match stuff because that happened after the match. But that said, I think this one was a really underrated and very good match. Austin putting Rock over clean felt like a thank you for all those years Rock made Austin look like a million bucks. These two always had great respect and camaraderie, and if I'm not wrong, it was Austin's idea to put Rock over clean, eventhough Austin was struggling significantly with injuries by this point with his full-time career essentially over, while Rock was out the door and on his way to Hollywood.
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If I remember correctly, Austin hit Dwayne with 5 or 6 chair shots in Mania 17 match to get the win. He had turn heel during the match. As good of an angle that was, I think their Mania 19 match was just a better wrestling match.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Bro he's 54. How many elite athletes do you know that are 54 years old?
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For a nostalgia run, 2-3 matches would be fine for a 4 month run from Rumble till Mania. It's the promos and character work that Jericho has always endeared fans with. I won't mind him reprising the list or 2008 gimmick for a few months considering how bland and unenjoyable WWE is atm.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Don't see how the two are related. Seth won a different belt. KO would have been vying for the Undisputed WWE Championship. Also, how would KO have dropped the belt to Sami if he had a neck injury so serious that he couldn't wrestle at all? If KO's injury wasn't as serious as it has been reported to be, he would have wrestled the match against Orton at WrestleMania and then gone away.
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Think we are talking about two different things. I am saying putting the title on KO before he got injured would have been a good idea. Like even till that Cody match, KO managed to wrestle out a last man standing. At that point in time, thinking about putting the title on KO would have made sense. It was after his match with Sami a month later when it became clear that he would out of action for long long time.
What I am basically trying to say is, it'd be a fresh idea seeing KO as the WWE champ and would open to much more future possibilities than putting the title on Seth and putting him in a faction with the Brons which is essentially a negative energy vortex.
 
BunnyRabbit said:
If I remember correctly, Austin hit Dwayne with 5 or 6 chair shots in Mania 17 match to get the win. He had turn heel during the match. As good of an angle that was, I think their Mania 19 match was just a better wrestling match.
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To each their own I guess. But for me, the WrestleMania 17 match is the best match these two ever had. I enjoyed the WrestleMania 15 one too though I don't remember it that well now.

Interested to hear what's @shaz619 and @Suleiman's favorite Austin v Rock match is.
 
BunnyRabbit said:
Think we are talking about two different things. I am saying putting the title on KO before he got injured would have been a good idea. Like even till that Cody match, KO managed to wrestle out a last man standing. At that point in time, thinking about putting the title on KO would have made sense. It was after his match with Sami a month later when it became clear that he would out of action for long long time.
What I am basically trying to say is, it'd be a fresh idea seeing KO as the WWE champ and would open to much more future possibilities than putting the title on Seth and putting him in a faction with the Brons which is essentially a negative energy vortex.
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Well that's a completely different thing. Personally I wouldn't have minded them putting the belt on KO earlier. But I'm specifically talking about what they were planning to do at Elimination Chamber, and what Rock's little stooge Gewirtz said on WWE Unreal.
 
BunnyRabbit said:
For a nostalgia run, 2-3 matches would be fine for a 4 month run from Rumble till Mania. It's the promos and character work that Jericho has always endeared fans with. I won't mind him reprising the list or 2008 gimmick for a few months considering how bland and unenjoyable WWE is atm.
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I don't know about that. That gimmick was fantastic. Him bringing it back now would just cheapen it because you know it wouldn't be as good. And I could say the same about Jericho tbh. But let's see what happens. He has definitely reached the end of the line in AEW creatively. The fans resent him at this point because they’ve realized that all he really does is attach himself to whichever young star is hot or rising in popularity, and somehow manages to make them mean even less.

I'm still leaning towards the idea that he is working the dirt sheets to get more money out of TK. Because I know how much he and Triple H hate each other, even if they may claim to be on good terms now. You also have to wonder how these rumors spread like wildfire? And the reason for that is Jericho too. Not only does he have friends in WWE, but Dirt Sheet Dave has also been on his speed dial since the 90s. Nick Khan and the WWE brass may want to sign him just so they can boast about stealing another top guy from AEW, but deep down Jericho knows that he will never have the same level of freedom in WWE that he does in AEW.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Well that's a completely different thing. Personally I wouldn't have minded them putting the belt on KO earlier. But I'm specifically talking about what they were planning to do at Elimination Chamber, and what Rock's little stooge Gewirtz said on WWE Unreal.
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At EC KO had the match with Sami. His feud with Cody was over on Rumble if i am correct
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
I don't know about that. That gimmick was fantastic. Him bringing it back now would just cheapen it because you know it wouldn't be as good. And I could say the same about Jericho tbh. But let's see what happens. He has definitely reached the end of the line in AEW creatively. The fans resent him at this point because they’ve realized that all he really does is attach himself to whichever young star is hot or rising in popularity, and somehow manages to make them mean even less.

I'm still leaning towards the idea that he is working the dirt sheets to get more money out of TK. Because I know how much he and Triple H hate each other, even if they may claim to be on good terms now. You also have to wonder how these rumors spread like wildfire? And the reason for that is Jericho too. Not only does he have friends in WWE, but Dirt Sheet Dave has also been on his speed dial since the 90s. Nick Khan and the WWE brass may want to sign him just so they can boast about stealing another top guy from AEW, but deep down Jericho knows that he will never have the same level of freedom in WWE that he does in AEW.
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Honestly, Jericho's best work has been done when his creative is confined to a certain extent. Vince gave him creative freedom without letting him run loose totally. This is also how almost every successful wrestler has flourished. With no control, one ends up to a point of self parody something that ended up happening to Jericho.
Yes I do agree it could all be a negotiation ploy from Jericho and he's smart about it. And it could work wonders on a gimp like TK.
On the other hand, Noseley doesn't have as much power to blacklist a signing. If Nick Khan wants to sign someone, he will whether Noseley likes it or not.
 
BunnyRabbit said:
Honestly, Jericho's best work has been done when his creative is confined to a certain extent. Vince gave him creative freedom without letting him run loose totally. This is also how almost every successful wrestler has flourished. With no control, one ends up to a point of self parody something that ended up happening to Jericho.
Yes I do agree it could all be a negotiation ploy from Jericho and he's smart about it. And it could work wonders on a gimp like TK.
On the other hand, Noseley doesn't have as much power to blacklist a signing. If Nick Khan wants to sign someone, he will whether Noseley likes it or not.
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That's true to an extent. I personally believe that Jericho's best days are behind him. In the past, there were times when he was given creative freedom, and then there were times when he was creatively stifled. The feud with Triple H at WrestleMania 18 is one example of when his ideas were more or less rejected infavor of 4/10 throwing his weight around and making the whole feud about H v Stephanie. Jericho's feud with Kevin Owens is another occasion where Vince kinda went cold on the whole thing and didn't really give that feud the ending it deserved, eventhough I can how Goldberg v Lesnar was a bigger match going into WrestleMania. Still I can see how being the second match on the card did feel like a slap on the face to Jericho, who even went on to say that was the biggest reason for him leaving WWE in 2018. I have also heard that the whole segment on RAW where KO turned heel on Jericho faced ALOT of pushback. And though Jericho didn't say this outright on his podcast, if you read between the lines you can tell that it was Triple H who was against it the most because apparently Vince was not at RAW that night and H was in-charge. Vince may have been cold on Jericho at certain times, but he still liked Jericho and respected him for his creativity and confidence. Thing is, Vince is gone now and Triple H is running the show.

He may not have the power to blacklist a signing but everyone knows that he is the King of Kings when it comes to burying talent. He'll use Jericho meaningfully at the start to squash the rumors that he doesn't like him. Then slowly, he will relegate Jericho to either a meaningless role, or use him just to put over his guys.
 
BunnyRabbit said:
At EC KO had the match with Sami. His feud with Cody was over on Rumble if i am correct
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That is correct. But on WWE Unreal he said that their initial plan was for KO to come out and do an impromptu match where he would win the belt, after Cody said no to The Rock's offer.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
That is correct. But on WWE Unreal he said that their initial plan was for KO to come out and do an impromptu match where he would win the belt, after Cody said no to The Rock's offer.
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WWE Unreal seems stupid from the few clips i have seen. We have Noseley taking credit for Cena turning heel and blabbering how he envisioned Travis Scott in that segment as well. I don't know if it's meant to be taken seriously or not.
It would have been a stupid decision not to have Cody vs Cena at Mania, whoever seriously pitched it, needs to be stoned :P
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
That's true to an extent. I personally believe that Jericho's best days are behind him. In the past, there were times when he was given creative freedom, and then there were times when he was creatively stifled. The feud with Triple H at WrestleMania 18 is one example of when his ideas were more or less rejected infavor of 4/10 throwing his weight around and making the whole feud about H v Stephanie. Jericho's feud with Kevin Owens is another occasion where Vince kinda went cold on the whole thing and didn't really give that feud the ending it deserved, eventhough I can how Goldberg v Lesnar was a bigger match going into WrestleMania. Still I can see how being the second match on the card did feel like a slap on the face to Jericho, who even went on to say that was the biggest reason for him leaving WWE in 2018. I have also heard that the whole segment on RAW where KO turned heel on Jericho faced ALOT of pushback. And though Jericho didn't say this outright on his podcast, if you read between the lines you can tell that it was Triple H who was against it the most because apparently Vince was not at RAW that night and H was in-charge. Vince may have been cold on Jericho at certain times, but he still liked Jericho and respected him for his creativity and confidence. Thing is, Vince is gone now and Triple H is running the show.

He may not have the power to blacklist a signing but everyone knows that he is the King of Kings when it comes to burying talent. He'll use Jericho meaningfully at the start to squash the rumors that he doesn't like him. Then slowly, he will relegate Jericho to either a meaningless role, or use him just to put over his guys.
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Jericho said on some podcast that Noseley was saying the whole festival of friendship segment being just KO giving Jericho the list of KO and turn heel as Vince wasn't present that day. And he had to call Vince to get his original plans follow through. He actually did name Noseley on some clip. It might well be from 2017 or 2018. It was actually Jericho-AJ feud that actually brought me back to pro wrestling world after 2007. I had stopped watching WWE around 2007 and apart from little some casual viewing through 2009, only watched that Edge-Del Rio feud at Mania and Cena-Rock feud in between.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
That is correct. But on WWE Unreal he said that their initial plan was for KO to come out and do an impromptu match where he would win the belt, after Cody said no to The Rock's offer.
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Really wish KO won the belt at least once in that feud… but 4/10 is by far the worst at booking possible
 
Suleiman said:
Really wish KO won the belt at least once in that feud… but 4/10 is by far the worst at booking possible
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Had KO won the belt and then given Cody the piledriver it would cemented him as a top-level heel and gotten some molten heat on Cody. It would have made sense in storyline too: KO tried being a good guy but it got him nowhere. Then he finally embraced the unhinged maniac within and became champion. It didn't even need to be a long reign. Instead H just beat him again and again and again. What's remarkable to me is how KO consistently managed to keep himself credible in that feud despite not winning once. That really speaks to his talent and ability.
 
BunnyRabbit said:
Jericho said on some podcast that Noseley was saying the whole festival of friendship segment being just KO giving Jericho the list of KO and turn heel as Vince wasn't present that day. And he had to call Vince to get his original plans follow through. He actually did name Noseley on some clip. It might well be from 2017 or 2018. It was actually Jericho-AJ feud that actually brought me back to pro wrestling world after 2007. I had stopped watching WWE around 2007 and apart from little some casual viewing through 2009, only watched that Edge-Del Rio feud at Mania and Cena-Rock feud in between.
Click to expand...
Jericho-AJ feud was a year before that in 2016
 
BunnyRabbit said:
WWE Unreal seems stupid from the few clips i have seen. We have Noseley taking credit for Cena turning heel and blabbering how he envisioned Travis Scott in that segment as well. I don't know if it's meant to be taken seriously or not.
It would have been a stupid decision not to have Cody vs Cena at Mania, whoever seriously pitched it, needs to be stoned :P
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This show exposes Triple H and the writers big time. But that Cena heel turn episode exposes The Rock and and his waterboy Gewirtz as a bunch of tools too. I'd say watch the show before you jump to defend your idol The Rock.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
MJF v Punk for the World title would have been phenomenal. Which is what they seemed to be hinting at before Brawl Out happened. AEW still has talents like MJF, Swerve, Christian, Darby Allin---Kyle Fletcher and Konosuke Takeshita are amazing prospects for the future---and a few others who can deliver if they are in the right program with the right person. But these days even that has become really rare. One aspect about the decline of AEW has been how homogenized the style of wrestling has become which is basically fast-paced, video-game wrestling where everyone does crazy moves and kicks out of everything. Which is disappointing because at one point, AEW really was showcasing a lot of different styles of wrestling on the same show. And as you pointed out, it's not like WWE is any good either unless you have someone like Gunther, Orton or Punk in the ring. Drew is pretty good too but I feel he has to be in the ring with the right opponent. He's not at the level of a Gunther where he can drag anyone to a decent and logical match. Speaking of whom, there are not enough adjectives to sum up how great Gunther is. Someone like him only comes around once in a generation. Punk is great but obviously is at the tail-end of his pro-wrestling career. If nothing else, I am excited to see Gunther and how his career pans out. I think there are some big-money future programs out there between him and guys like Brock, Roman, Jacob Fatu, Bron Breakker, Dragunov, KO. Rey (?). Him vs. the likes of Punk, Cody, McIntyre, Sami Zayn are definitely worth revisiting. Perhaps one day maybe even Gunther v Oba Femi. I mean the options are just endless with this guy. I also sincerely hope that we get to see Gunther v AJ before AJ retires because that will be incredible if both are given the time to do their thing.

As for AEW, no they really can't. The firing of Punk was the turning point and no matter what they tell themselves, things will never be the same again. What's even funnier to me though is that the people that Tony seemingly chose over Punk; guys like The Young Bucks, Jack Perry and their whole merry band of misfits are completely dead in the water. The Young Bucks have never meant less than they do now. They are completely irrelevant and even AEW fans just don't care about them or the grade school comedy skits they do. Their matches may have seemed unique back in 2018 but that kind of style that spits in the face of logic and common sense wears off very quickly. The only one of them who was of any use: Kenny Omega has destroyed his body to such an extent that he can't wrestle more than a match every few months. The empty-headed dumbfug cowboy still has some cache with this audience because he goes out and says stuff like he will "win the AEW Men's World Heavyweight title" lol. But this company is no longer in a place where it can grow or move forward. I'll keep watching because I've been watching for the past 5 years and despite all the disappointment they have put me through, I genuinely do want them to succeed. But I can't say its something I have particularly high hopes for.
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Agree completely and I get why you watch it, I stopped for different reasons, I get it because I did the same, religiously watching anything & everything, getting an insight into the future of the industry, plus it fulfilled the fix I needed from the burnout of WWE programming. And you experience new cultures, styles & storylines in a very gritty kinda way which made it all so authentic, yes it got ridiculous as we moved into the Video Game era, but largely it was silly filler before it got real bad; but some of the stars managed to capture the wider fanbase because they took their sh!t seriously & you knew about them before they got the call from Stamford. Tapes / DVD trading & emergence of streaming pretty much killed off the soul you found in the back alleys among other issues, Tony came in and hit the final nail in the coffin, but I expected so much more from him based on the press he did before launching the company, I think that if you asked someone what their situation would be 5 years on in 2020, you wouldn’t predict their current state. And while the indies got killed off I expected more from AEW to fill the gap left in the NA market, they showed some promise, but no identity and have operated in bad faith, if we look at some of the other competitors to WWE and how they got on, ECW, WCW and even TNA, AEW for me has performed the worst, they didn’t have the financial limitations of ECW or TNA, they had the benefit of knowing what causes the likes of WCW and others to fail, yet made the same mistakes without even making a mark. It just shows you can have all the dough, but it’s like sending a monkey into space and expecting miracles.

On Drew, he’s of that same top tier ilk but he is booked so terribly, Gunther is still fortunate he’s in the main event picture consistently while Drew has cooled down so much since feuding with Punk, he is here now tagging with Logan Paul ffs who is most likely going over Cena, pathetic. Drew should be in Seth’s position, anytime Drew is pushed as a top guy he has delivered, but I am certain he made H’a behind burn a few times and they are holding onto him only because they don’t want him to work for AEW.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
I feel that if anyone else tried to do that style it would be embarrassing. But RVD was just that damn talented. I think he is definitely someone who could have even been a top babyface because I don't recall if there was ever a time when he wasn't massively over. When he came to WWE in 2002 from ECW, I feel he was at his absolute peak physically and popularity-wise. Which ofcourse meant that HHH had to bring out his golden shovel and dig another shallow grave. But a large part of the blame falls on him too for blowing his opportunity when he finally got it. I mean there really is no excuse for getting busted for weed by the cops when you;re the freaking World Champion...eventhough that was just about the most RVD thing he could have done lol. :wahab2
Click to expand...

What was with that though like we all kinda accepted it in 2006? The Wellness policy was introduced in 2007 right or was it 2005 after Eddie’s death? Vince liked RVD a lot to, so I would have thought he would be given some leeway, unless Doofus manipulated his father-in-law into suspending him. But if that policy was in place then I might understand it a little bit because you can’t let the champion get away with something which had been so publicised, but would Triple H get the same treatment?
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
@shaz619 @BunnyRabbit @Suleiman @The_KING

The promo sequel to the Austin v Rock WrestleMania 17 'My Way' promo. Also by Limp Bizkit. I doubt any single band cashed in from WWE as much as them back in the day lol.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1958936830432485602

In many ways, this match marked the end of an era. One hand you feel nostalgic seeing this, on the other hand you know wrestling will never live up to the highs of 2000-03.
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And the match was great to, it was an easter egg for wrestling enthusiasts & it nicely transitioned into the RA era, Rock & Austin always knew their market so well
 
If Chris Jericho & Christian had a baby, that baby would be Ethan Page.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
This show exposes Triple H and the writers big time. But that Cena heel turn episode exposes The Rock and and his waterboy Gewirtz as a bunch of tools too. I'd say watch the show before you jump to defend your idol The Rock.
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He might be one now. But he definitely wasn't one back in late 90s early 2000s which are basically the memories of his wrestling that I remember. But still Dwayne over Noseley in any time period or time line
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
@shaz619 @BunnyRabbit @Suleiman @The_KING

The promo sequel to the Austin v Rock WrestleMania 17 'My Way' promo. Also by Limp Bizkit. I doubt any single band cashed in from WWE as much as them back in the day lol.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1958936830432485602

In many ways, this match marked the end of an era. One hand you feel nostalgic seeing this, on the other hand you know wrestling will never live up to the highs of 2000-03.
Click to expand...
This was the end of the era, indeed. Austin vs The Rock was the GOAT rivalry that helped to define the Attitude Era.
 
I went to the Birmingham show yesterday, first RAW here in over a decade and I guess it was destiny.

I’ve had a lot on my plate and originally wanted to see if I could make the Liverpool show because Punk vs Dom was advertised for a house show, Punk has been such a workhorse man, he literally has been tasked to carry the entire UK tour on his back.

Anyway, for the Birmingham show, they advertised Roman Reigns, Rhea etc , still decent but Punk was not announced in an official capacity. Then Punk posted his UK dates on Insta and Birmingham was one of them! I tried to find out whether or not this was a mistake and got no feedback, he was not announced by the WWE UK accounts either (this will make sense later).

So I thought you know what, I will take the risk, it’s a live RAW and Birmingham / NEC arena have deep ties to the pro-wrestling business, the city has an industrial background & the working-class / blue collar workforce made this place, all around the midlands there are small independent wrestling companies and from this place you’ve seen gritty stars like Pete Dunn, Tyler Bate & Trent Seven emerge and go onto be quiet successful despite my booking grievances. In-fact the first UK exclusive PPV by the WWF/E was held in this very arena, who will ever forget those clips of fans throwing garbage at Michaels in 1997 after he retained the EU title against the Bulldog? That happened in this city! This event paved the way for the UK Insurrection PPV’s & some of the European based events we see today. So just trying to highlight what a rabid wrestling following we have here that’s quiet passionate, so I expected a great crowd at the least.

My ticket cost me about £100 quid, and I was right at the back, however, my view wasn’t terrible if am honest, it’s not a huge arena and in the UK you can get away with it. It’s pricey & I thought I will go for it as a one-off, the range for the cheapest tickets was like £90-£100; I once paid this amount and was near the entrance ramp / floor seating for a Smackdown in Manchester. I also paid for a mate’s ticket which added to my expenses because I’m such a nice guy and my mate well, he’s basically Colt Cabana ( @RedwoodOriginal will get this reference
:yk) It’s a bit of a shame for Family’s especially because there was a decent group seated right towards the rafters. Two sodas and some fries cost about £15 quid which is extortion but that’s how you get it these days for any event here now.

I got to the arena relatively fine and paid for parking before hand, you can pin where you parked on google maps which is so helpful believe me, when a show is done and you’re following a zombie herd. Getting out could have been a nightmare, but my Pakistani genes helped with the dodgy driving to get out a rammed car-park.

The era of the opening ‘dark-match’ is effectively dead isn’t it, because whatever I saw you will see on main-event, then again, it’s kind of dark because nobody watches that anyway
:yk3 Lyra and somebody else wrestled I can’t remember lol They opened with this around 7.30pm.

At 8pm, out comes Roman Reigns and he blew the roof off the arena. I’ve seen the Undertaker, John Cena in his prime, Daniel Bryan, AJ as champion and a few others, and the aura of Roman Reigns is just something else. I was also so happy that we did not open the show with the cringe lord. Roman was in his element, he fed of the crowd, his promo was largely unscripted and he’s so comfortable compared to the last time I saw him many years ago, he oozes in Charisma and we were not short changed, that’s for sure. I thought Bronson Reed did well in the segment to considering the hot crowd and they did a good job building up the match in Paris later this week.

Somebody started an F you Seth Rollins chant, and I wont take credit for that, but by God I made sure we maintained that chant in my block. I also started the AJ Styles chant when he rammed Dom into the post because I was so shocked to see him.

We opened the ring action with Dragon Lee & JD, I got nothing against these two yeah but this was the wrong spot on the match card for them. Does anybody know something about these two feuding that I don’t? Because this felt like a cold match & so was Penta vs Kofi Kingston. I was again super shocked to find that they were booking AJ Styles vs Finn Balor, being such a mark of AJ, I could finally see him uninterrupted (At WM 35 the match I saw against Orton was mainly ruined for all the fans due to a lights problem so it was bad for the wrestlers as well because we complained about it for a few matches, I once saw him besides that in Manchester when he was champion but it was more of a dark segment where he delivered the flying forearm), so I was stoked! AJ & Balor could wrestle in their sleep and I know the match did not last long but I enjoyed it more then any other match on the card, every little movement from AJ just shows me why he’s the GOAT, from something as simple as tumbling over the top rope, know one can does it like the phenomenal one.

However! AJ vs Balor had more heat then any match other than the main-event, and what does H do? he puts them in the fricking p!ss break spot! And right after AJ won, they went to like commercial break or some backstage interview, so he never even got to celebrate, AJ had to walk back into Gorilla while watching some nonsense on the giant screen, the ultimate disrespect man, I was well angry about that. Swap this match with the spots of either Lee/JD of Penta/Kofi and give them as much time & that would have been better, but again, this match wasn’t advertised and it was a bonus I guess, but screw H anyway. There were people getting up to take a leak which momentarily blocked my view but because I was so high up it was not too bad, a few rushed back to their seats when AJ Styles music hit, just shows you what an utter morton H really is.

Rhea is so god damn over, she has outgrown her role, she’s getting these reactions every week as though she’s as big a star as anybody else and it still feels to me like she’s a bit in limbo. In attendance, she got as big a pop as anybody else on the show & is hugely popular. The match with Perez was solid but it didn’t really grab my attention :ssa The altercation between Nikki & Becky was a lot of fun, and I am glad it’s being booked for the Clash in Paris, I think Nikki will remind people how good she use to be. Becky’s mic work as always is fantastic, she’s much better in her role as the overbooked heel then her talentless husband.

LA Knight cut a promo on Punk earlier in the day which gave me hopes that Punk would show up and Punk did, backstage. What I noticed from all the backstage segments was that when Punk spoke, the whole audience was hooked to every word and wanted to hear what he had to say, with everyone else, the audience was chanting something so I don’t know what was said entirely in all those segments.

The main-event got off creatively with the fight up the entrance ramp which was nice and I was really enjoying the match, and it was late and I don’t think we got a clean finish? That would have been nice for the final match on the card but I had low expectations & the ending was so predictable, I actually recorded it all just before it happened. The run-ins were predictable but boy was I so delighted to see CM Punk, I jumped out my seat and celebrated like Shoaib Akhtar taking a wicket in England during the 2010 T20I series, nobody else made me jump like that. It’s a shame his appearance was so limited, but that’s who I was hoping to see so I can’t complain. The pop for Punk was bigger than anybody else on RAW I felt, especially so late, I wonder if that’s how the viewing audience felt as well.

The ending to RAW at least wasn’t the cringe lord standing tall again, somebody called Seth a p!ssy and again I maintained that in my block, they really hate him in my city LOL so it’s not just me boys :yk2 Jey closed the show and during the dark segment I kept getting my phone out and putting it back on my pocket because every time he was about to say a few words, the crowd went full re!ard and made him YEET like 5 times. Ok I admit I may have joined in like once or twice, but come on man, I followed an era where we got the star performers send the crowd home happy with some banter through a fun promo, didn’t get that here, however, Jey had the entire arena literally shaking beneath my feet.

It’s a change of times I guess, the participation era is rampant whether it’s the WWE, AEW or somebody else, the crowd want to be a part of the show and that can be fun to an extent, but the YEET mania is too much for me and is a reflection of poor booking & weak creative. I would much rather have Punk send the crowd home, nothing on Jey and this is who the audience were going nuts for and he is very popular, it can’t be denied. But this participation thing is also the reason behind why somebody like Seth is protected behind his theme song, it masks the dreadful booking. This is a new wave of fans who are easily manipulted, like Heyman said, they know their role and largely encourage the regime, if on the off chance they get behind stars who are not a part of the wider plan, the push of those performers is blunted.

Vince never paid attention to the IWC and everyone else but it wasn’t out of spite and the hardcore fans who did tune into the big 4 events, he did eventually listen to them, even if it was begrudgingly, he hated to care about fan opinion to a degree. H don’t really care about this portion of the audience at all.

Overall a fun show, the audience really made it if I am honest, the pacing and placement of the matches/segments were off and the presentation was average, but Roman Reigns delivered, AJ/Balor & LA Knight / Bron were very good and I got to see CM Punk.
 
Not enough Punk, but I will take that! I think what they’ve been doing is using Punk as the workhorse for all the live events to sell tickets with him being the main draw and then not advertising him for RAW but giving us like 2 mins of a Punk appearance, but why not put Jey Uso’s drawing power to the test and give him that role 🙊 so we get more Punk during a RAW! I imagine the live events he headlined were much better!
 
I don’t care if Jake Hager is telling the truth or not, I think that Punk has said enough on the subject matter off Tony Khan’s ineptness and his business speaks for itself.

As for Mox, Bryan & Jericho, for all their vast experience, they’ve manipulated the childish money mark as much as anybody else as I said a few weeks ago, they serve their own interests and Tony has done nothing to get control of his own house and the company has not grown as a result.
 
shaz619 said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1960372385585971245

Legend this guy.
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Bro I am into ufc / mma as you know and was watching rampage streaming from time to time because he’s funny.

I unfortunately witnessed his live reaction to his son beating Stu almost to the brink of lifelessness

The sad thing is his “mentor” that goof in the cowboy hat riled him up and a receipt turned into 22 punches after the double leg takedown slam to Stu already knocked him unconscious.
 
shaz619 said:
What was with that though like we all kinda accepted it in 2006? The Wellness policy was introduced in 2007 right or was it 2005 after Eddie’s death? Vince liked RVD a lot to, so I would have thought he would be given some leeway, unless Doofus manipulated his father-in-law into suspending him. But if that policy was in place then I might understand it a little bit because you can’t let the champion get away with something which had been so publicised, but would Triple H get the same treatment?
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Say what you will about H but he was not the kind of person who would ever be caught doing something like that. He may not have any talent but he has always taken his job seriously ever since he was put in that upper card position.
 
shaz619 said:
I went to the Birmingham show yesterday, first RAW here in over a decade and I guess it was destiny.

I’ve had a lot on my plate and originally wanted to see if I could make the Liverpool show because Punk vs Dom was advertised for a house show, Punk has been such a workhorse man, he literally has been tasked to carry the entire UK tour on his back.

Anyway, for the Birmingham show, they advertised Roman Reigns, Rhea etc , still decent but Punk was not announced in an official capacity. Then Punk posted his UK dates on Insta and Birmingham was one of them! I tried to find out whether or not this was a mistake and got no feedback, he was not announced by the WWE UK accounts either (this will make sense later).

So I thought you know what, I will take the risk, it’s a live RAW and Birmingham / NEC arena have deep ties to the pro-wrestling business, the city has an industrial background & the working-class / blue collar workforce made this place, all around the midlands there are small independent wrestling companies and from this place you’ve seen gritty stars like Pete Dunn, Tyler Bate & Trent Seven emerge and go onto be quiet successful despite my booking grievances. In-fact the first UK exclusive PPV by the WWF/E was held in this very arena, who will ever forget those clips of fans throwing garbage at Michaels in 1997 after he retained the EU title against the Bulldog? That happened in this city! This event paved the way for the UK Insurrection PPV’s & some of the European based events we see today. So just trying to highlight what a rabid wrestling following we have here that’s quiet passionate, so I expected a great crowd at the least.

My ticket cost me about £100 quid, and I was right at the back, however, my view wasn’t terrible if am honest, it’s not a huge arena and in the UK you can get away with it. It’s pricey & I thought I will go for it as a one-off, the range for the cheapest tickets was like £90-£100; I once paid this amount and was near the entrance ramp / floor seating for a Smackdown in Manchester. I also paid for a mate’s ticket which added to my expenses because I’m such a nice guy and my mate well, he’s basically Colt Cabana ( @RedwoodOriginal will get this reference
:yk) It’s a bit of a shame for Family’s especially because there was a decent group seated right towards the rafters. Two sodas and some fries cost about £15 quid which is extortion but that’s how you get it these days for any event here now.

I got to the arena relatively fine and paid for parking before hand, you can pin where you parked on google maps which is so helpful believe me, when a show is done and you’re following a zombie herd. Getting out could have been a nightmare, but my Pakistani genes helped with the dodgy driving to get out a rammed car-park.

The era of the opening ‘dark-match’ is effectively dead isn’t it, because whatever I saw you will see on main-event, then again, it’s kind of dark because nobody watches that anyway
:yk3 Lyra and somebody else wrestled I can’t remember lol They opened with this around 7.30pm.

At 8pm, out comes Roman Reigns and he blew the roof off the arena. I’ve seen the Undertaker, John Cena in his prime, Daniel Bryan, AJ as champion and a few others, and the aura of Roman Reigns is just something else. I was also so happy that we did not open the show with the cringe lord. Roman was in his element, he fed of the crowd, his promo was largely unscripted and he’s so comfortable compared to the last time I saw him many years ago, he oozes in Charisma and we were not short changed, that’s for sure. I thought Bronson Reed did well in the segment to considering the hot crowd and they did a good job building up the match in Paris later this week.

Somebody started an F you Seth Rollins chant, and I wont take credit for that, but by God I made sure we maintained that chant in my block. I also started the AJ Styles chant when he rammed Dom into the post because I was so shocked to see him.

We opened the ring action with Dragon Lee & JD, I got nothing against these two yeah but this was the wrong spot on the match card for them. Does anybody know something about these two feuding that I don’t? Because this felt like a cold match & so was Penta vs Kofi Kingston. I was again super shocked to find that they were booking AJ Styles vs Finn Balor, being such a mark of AJ, I could finally see him uninterrupted (At WM 35 the match I saw against Orton was mainly ruined for all the fans due to a lights problem so it was bad for the wrestlers as well because we complained about it for a few matches, I once saw him besides that in Manchester when he was champion but it was more of a dark segment where he delivered the flying forearm), so I was stoked! AJ & Balor could wrestle in their sleep and I know the match did not last long but I enjoyed it more then any other match on the card, every little movement from AJ just shows me why he’s the GOAT, from something as simple as tumbling over the top rope, know one can does it like the phenomenal one.

However! AJ vs Balor had more heat then any match other than the main-event, and what does H do? he puts them in the fricking p!ss break spot! And right after AJ won, they went to like commercial break or some backstage interview, so he never even got to celebrate, AJ had to walk back into Gorilla while watching some nonsense on the giant screen, the ultimate disrespect man, I was well angry about that. Swap this match with the spots of either Lee/JD of Penta/Kofi and give them as much time & that would have been better, but again, this match wasn’t advertised and it was a bonus I guess, but screw H anyway. There were people getting up to take a leak which momentarily blocked my view but because I was so high up it was not too bad, a few rushed back to their seats when AJ Styles music hit, just shows you what an utter morton H really is.

Rhea is so god damn over, she has outgrown her role, she’s getting these reactions every week as though she’s as big a star as anybody else and it still feels to me like she’s a bit in limbo. In attendance, she got as big a pop as anybody else on the show & is hugely popular. The match with Perez was solid but it didn’t really grab my attention :ssa The altercation between Nikki & Becky was a lot of fun, and I am glad it’s being booked for the Clash in Paris, I think Nikki will remind people how good she use to be. Becky’s mic work as always is fantastic, she’s much better in her role as the overbooked heel then her talentless husband.

LA Knight cut a promo on Punk earlier in the day which gave me hopes that Punk would show up and Punk did, backstage. What I noticed from all the backstage segments was that when Punk spoke, the whole audience was hooked to every word and wanted to hear what he had to say, with everyone else, the audience was chanting something so I don’t know what was said entirely in all those segments.

The main-event got off creatively with the fight up the entrance ramp which was nice and I was really enjoying the match, and it was late and I don’t think we got a clean finish? That would have been nice for the final match on the card but I had low expectations & the ending was so predictable, I actually recorded it all just before it happened. The run-ins were predictable but boy was I so delighted to see CM Punk, I jumped out my seat and celebrated like Shoaib Akhtar taking a wicket in England during the 2010 T20I series, nobody else made me jump like that. It’s a shame his appearance was so limited, but that’s who I was hoping to see so I can’t complain. The pop for Punk was bigger than anybody else on RAW I felt, especially so late, I wonder if that’s how the viewing audience felt as well.

The ending to RAW at least wasn’t the cringe lord standing tall again, somebody called Seth a p!ssy and again I maintained that in my block, they really hate him in my city LOL so it’s not just me boys :yk2 Jey closed the show and during the dark segment I kept getting my phone out and putting it back on my pocket because every time he was about to say a few words, the crowd went full re!ard and made him YEET like 5 times. Ok I admit I may have joined in like once or twice, but come on man, I followed an era where we got the star performers send the crowd home happy with some banter through a fun promo, didn’t get that here, however, Jey had the entire arena literally shaking beneath my feet.

It’s a change of times I guess, the participation era is rampant whether it’s the WWE, AEW or somebody else, the crowd want to be a part of the show and that can be fun to an extent, but the YEET mania is too much for me and is a reflection of poor booking & weak creative. I would much rather have Punk send the crowd home, nothing on Jey and this is who the audience were going nuts for and he is very popular, it can’t be denied. But this participation thing is also the reason behind why somebody like Seth is protected behind his theme song, it masks the dreadful booking. This is a new wave of fans who are easily manipulted, like Heyman said, they know their role and largely encourage the regime, if on the off chance they get behind stars who are not a part of the wider plan, the push of those performers is blunted.

Vince never paid attention to the IWC and everyone else but it wasn’t out of spite and the hardcore fans who did tune into the big 4 events, he did eventually listen to them, even if it was begrudgingly, he hated to care about fan opinion to a degree. H don’t really care about this portion of the audience at all.

Overall a fun show, the audience really made it if I am honest, the pacing and placement of the matches/segments were off and the presentation was average, but Roman Reigns delivered, AJ/Balor & LA Knight / Bron were very good and I got to see CM Punk.
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So you're telling me your mate has a joint bank account with his mother? :wahab2

Sounds like you had a fun experience. Interesting to hear the in-house perspective on a show I saw on Netflix. I think this is about as much as you can expect from a RAW these days. A couple of big segments/matches with stars and a bunch of cold matches or segments no one cares about. Still sounds better than watching an episode of SmackDown
 
Suleiman said:
Bro I am into ufc / mma as you know and was watching rampage streaming from time to time because he’s funny.

I unfortunately witnessed his live reaction to his son beating Stu almost to the brink of lifelessness

The sad thing is his “mentor” that goof in the cowboy hat riled him up and a receipt turned into 22 punches after the double leg takedown slam to Stu already knocked him unconscious.
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BunnyRabbit said:
This was so awful. A man could have lost his life.
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This SOB should be in jail for attempted murder
 
Roman v Bronson was good, but I am kind getting sick of these Triple H injury angles. The first one or two were unique. But now it feels like they unfold in the exact same way every single time. They take an eternity to finish and it's always the same damn thing. One wrestler will get a beatdown and just as you are thinking the beatdown is over the other wrestler will come back and beat him up some more. Then you see this whole cycle repeat again and again, and at this point it has just gotten predictable and repetitive.

Wyatt Sicks v Street Profits was like any other random SmackDown match. Not sure what it was doing on this card. Becky v Bella was a trainwreck with a few big botches and alot of sloppiness.

Rusev v Sheamus was an entertaining No DQ match. Had some fun spots...they really went all out on the Irish bar theme lol. Anyway I was a bit surprised to see Rusev win so decisively. Especially since we all know that the booking will not support him and he will soon become yet another irrelevant midcarder.
 
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