[VIDEO] Boxing Day : Mohammad Yousuf and Rameez Raja in a heated argument

[Haroon786]

Sick of people who just because they have beards think that they have moral authority over others particularly when they're hypocrites like Moyo.

Good on Ramiz for that thumping response.

It isn't good to see such tamasha between two ex cricketers who are regularly on TV but it was Moyo who instigated the 'fight' and he deserves full blame for it. Ramiz, as any man with an inch of self respect would do, gave a fitting reply.

 

[Firebreaker]

For what I know Ramiz is an educated person.He shouldn't have made cheap shots at Yousuf over his illiteracy

 

[Firebreaker]

Sick of people who just because they have beards think that they have moral authority over others particularly when they're hypocrites like Moyo.

Good on Ramiz for that thumping response.

It isn't good to see such tamasha between two ex cricketers who are regularly on TV but it was Moyo who instigated the 'fight' and he deserves full blame for it. Ramiz, as any man with an inch of self respect would do, gave a fitting reply.

Did you even watch the show?

 

[dhump]

Uff this was utter shameful I dont care about their opinion but utter disgrace both of them.


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[Anfield]

Btw Rameez is not all innocent as well. He could have disconnect but he started cursing, "ghatiya aadmi" Not the words you should use on air.

 

[Anfield]

Uff this was utter shameful I dont care about their opinion but utter disgrace both of them.


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exactly! BOTH of them!

 

[supersix]

Ramiz Raja seems to have a bug fan club on pakpassion, he should learn to keep his opinions to himself too.

 

[farazaidi]

Sick of people who just because they have beards think that they have moral authority over others particularly when they're hypocrites like Moyo.

Good on Ramiz for that thumping response.

It isn't good to see such tamasha between two ex cricketers who are regularly on TV but it was Moyo who instigated the 'fight' and he deserves full blame for it. Ramiz, as any man with an inch of self respect would do, gave a fitting reply.

dont you think its equally bad to assume Raja is a saint just because he speaks well? not as if he has any moral authority either.

Bottomline is good players they may be, but both are classless people who shamed themselves on live television. There are no two ways about it !

 

[Slog]

dont you think its equally bad to assume Raja is a saint just because he speaks well? not as if he has any moral authority either.

Bottomline is good players they may be, but both are classless people who shamed themselves on live television. There are no two ways about it !

Even Afridi has said same things about Yousuf. Few others too. Yousuf generally comes across as a bitter, dislikeable, entitled brat. When so many people have that opinion of you then there is something there.

Rameez, whether he is a poor or good commentator, generally is not associated with these things.

 

[Haroon786]

dont you think its equally bad to assume Raja is a saint just because he speaks well? not as if he has any moral authority either.

Bottomline is good players they may be, but both are classless people who shamed themselves on live television. There are no two ways about it !

I think it's equally bad to miscomprehend people's views, where have I said Ramiz is a saint ?

 

[Fallen King]

Actually opposite - the role is different. How many Test matches did Arlott, Cardus, Omer Quareshi, Brian Johnston, Tony Cozier, Ayaz Memon, Swanton, CLR James play? There are people like Benaud, Gavasker, IChappell, Bill Lawry, who were great cricketers & great commentators, analyst or writers; but not because they played lots of matches or great cricketers, rather they could analyze & communicate, and they studied to enhance their knowledge of the game.

MoYo has no right to question a fellow commentator/expert on his credibility, if both are called in same program. More importantly, he taunted Rameez on his English skills, because he himself is illiterate & can't speak in English. In Western world, MoYo would have been described in one word - raciest. Do you think, it's fair if next day Tendulkar or Akram declines to discuss with MoYo in same forum - as, compared to them what MoYo has achieved in cricket?

Moyo's biggest problem is superiority complex, and I do agree with few here, part of that is due to the length of his beard.

I agree with you in this case with the example of commentators you have mentioned. But Mohammad Yousuf is not wrong either. Knowing the stature of Ramiz Raja as commentator, hence the title "English teacher" because most of times, Ramiz Raja spouts crap, and hardly provide insight for the game never mind never been able to offer tactical inputs of the game in term of technicality for the game in his entire career.

Mohammad Yousuf is hardly ideal either in term of drama-baaz, but as expert of the game, he provides fine analysis on the game most of times. Due to his poor English, therefore he cannot applied for the job of commentator.

 

[Haroon786]

Did you even watch the show?

Why would you have to watch the entire show just to discuss the highlighted bit in the OP ?

 

[silent ischemia]

No generalisation is 100%. You pointed out Israr Ahmed and he is someone for whom I have great respect. Similarly I can also point out others, but, when the vast majority fall on one side, you can't help but generalize. Israr and the likes are exceptions, especially in our times and in our society. Majority follow the ideology of the likes of MoYo, Tariq Jameel and Junaid Jamshed etc.

Well there is a difference between religious scholars and others
Moyo JJ etc are basically tablighi; arent scholars; too rigid in opinion

 

[Hamza78]

I agree with yousef ramiz didn't do nothing for Pakistan yousef has done lots more than him

 

[Mamoon]

Well there is a difference between religious scholars and others
Moyo JJ etc are basically tablighi; arent scholars; too rigid in opinion

Yes they are not, but I find similarities in their ideologies and the way they present themselves.

 

[Firebreaker]

As for Afridi,He gave a dignified reply rather than using words like 'ghatiya' 'makaar'

 

[BDwarriors]

Amir is a duck who lays golden egg till he gets select in the team. Till then let all get the golden egg of media attention by talking about amir, be it positive or negative.

 

[Monsee]

Rameez was a very vital player in 1992 WC and averaged over 50 (if I am not wrong during the WC). Yes he was no way near Yousuf class but he wasn't a nobody either.

You need to look deeper in the stats to realise he did not help the team one bit especially in key games, he scored so slowly in the century against WI, that he completed it in the last over of the innings I think...and hence our total score was so low for such a pitch that we were trounced by 10 wickets if I recall correctly!

Rameez was decent in ODI's, mostly on flatish wickets especially in Asia...in Tests he was probably one of the worst openers who played for so long and even captained the team as well! Lot's of people think he played for so long due to his family connections especially due to being Wasim's brother and that he Wasim had played as long as Rameez did, we would have been much better served

 

[Yanna_Rascala]

Let's get one thing straight. Yousuf is amongst top 5 Pakistani batsmen tests + ODIs of all time and he was country miles ahead of Ramiz.

Now, both of them acted like total buffoons fighting on a tv show.

 

[Firebreaker]

You need to look deeper in the stats to realise he did not help the team one bit especially in key games, he scored so slowly in the century against WI, that he completed it in the last over of the innings I think...and hence our total score was so low for such a pitch that we were trounced by 10 wickets if I recall correctly!

Rameez was decent in ODI's, mostly on flatish wickets especially in Asia...in Tests he was probably one of the worst openers who played for so long and even captained the team as well! Lot's of people think he played for so long due to his family connections especially due to being Wasim's brother and that he Wasim had played as long as Rameez did, we would have been much better served

It was mentioned by Yousuf that Ramiz had only 2 centuries in Tests

 

[The_KING]

Ramiz doesn't work for PCB.He works for Ten and Star Sports

Can't PCB tell them that they won't him commentating on Pakistan matches?

 

[farazaidi]

It was ugly and got very personal.

Yousuf is a besharam person with no class or set respect. It was over Amir and both were on the line.

Yousuf said Ramizs opinion doesn't matter as he achieved nothing in his life or cricket career. Ramiz responded by saying that please don't have these beardedhypocrites who misuse religion. Went on

why reserve the criticism for Yousuf only? does Raja not shame himself in the video?

 

[Anfield]

You need to look deeper in the stats to realise he did not help the team one bit especially in key games, he scored so slowly in the century against WI, that he completed it in the last over of the innings I think...and hence our total score was so low for such a pitch that we were trounced by 10 wickets if I recall correctly!

Rameez was decent in ODI's, mostly on flatish wickets especially in Asia...in Tests he was probably one of the worst openers who played for so long and even captained the team as well! t's of people think he played for so long due to his family connections especially due to being Wasim's brother and that he Wasim had played as long as Rameez did, we would have been much better served

He provided a good opening stand with Amir Sohail against Aus match. His century against NZ match was very vital. We needed those two points. Out total against WI wasn't too bad but bowling fell apart in that! And not to mention his 55 ball 44 in 92 WC semifinal. He was the only one in the beginning who kept the scorecard moving.

 

[MMHS]

I agree with you in this case with the example of commentators you have mentioned. But Mohammad Yousuf is not wrong either. Knowing the stature of Ramiz Raja as commentator, hence the title "English teacher" because most of times, Ramiz Raja spouts crap, and hardly provide insight for the game never mind never been able to offer tactical inputs of the game in term of technicality for the game in his entire career.

Mohammad Yousuf is hardly ideal either in term of drama-baaz, but as expert of the game, he provides fine analysis on the game most of times. Due to his poor English, therefore he cannot applied for the job of commentator.

Rameez earned his position to be honest - it's not easy for a Pakistani to earn a coveted job in Indian media, so he must have some credibility. Also, RR anchors lots of post-match presentations & I think he is one of the best. He might not be sharpest tools, but hardly embarrasses himself.

MoYo is a total failure as expert, not because of his English vocabulary or his flawed analysis (in fact his insights are better than most from PAK, I for one wrote several times that MoYo can be a Selector or batting coach), BUT, because he fails in fundamentals of a analyst - neutrality. For every instance, MoYo's has 2 explanations, depending on the person in question (& sorry for my words, like every Molla, he 'll try to impose his verdict to every listener, unconditionally).

And here, he is trying to win a battle just like every illiterate, wrong headed people do - bringing irrelevant points to win an argument. Rameez has every right to question Aamir's inclusion in the team - he played under Imran & their values might have been different, what PCB does is their issue, Rambo is not going to "Nasihat" PCB.

 

[BDwarriors]

Rameez education is the reason why he is bad. His education doesnt allow him to reply the way he did. Biting a dog if he bites you isnt act of a human.

 

[Slog]

why reserve the criticism for Yousuf only? does Raja not shame himself in the video?

Yousuf started it and has a history of doing so. Has done it with Afridi and Misbah too

 

[farazaidi]

Even Afridi has said same things about Yousuf. Few others too. Yousuf generally comes across as a bitter, dislikeable, entitled brat. When so many people have that opinion of you then there is something there.

Rameez, whether he is a poor or good commentator, generally is not associated with these things.

I was talking about this video specifically. Both have been equally poor IMO but I see the trend of Yousuf being criticized more for being *fake mullah* etc. Now I'm not defending him, just wanted to understand why he is disliked more.

I take your point about these two in general and agree to a degree but in this video, both have been equally disgusting IMO

 

[Slog]

I was talking about this video specifically. Both have been equally poor IMO but I see the trend of Yousuf being criticized more for being *fake mullah* etc. Now I'm not defending him, just wanted to understand why he is disliked more.

I take your point about these two in general and agree to a degree but in this video, both have been equally disgusting IMO

In this video both have been disgusting despite Yousuf taking the initial jab.

However Yousuf has a long history of this so naturally he will get assigned more blame as this is his modus operandi.

 

[farazaidi]

I think it's equally bad to miscomprehend people's views, where have I said Ramiz is a saint ?

I got the impression that you considered Yousuf as the source and main reason for this ugly tussle when you didnt mentioned a word on Raja. Wrong?

 

[Deosai]

No generalisation is 100%. You pointed out Israr Ahmed and he is someone for whom I have great respect. Similarly I can also point out others, but, when the vast majority fall on one side, you can't help but generalize. Israr and the likes are exceptions, especially in our times and in our society. Majority follow the ideology of the likes of MoYo, Tariq Jameel and Junaid Jamshed etc.

Dr.Israr declared a Fatwa against cricket players from shining the bowl against their groin/inner thigh since he believed it was 'fahash' (obscene) and discouraged women from watching cricket cause it was fahashi. He was Zia's favorite scholar, which is how he got a show on PTV during the Zia days.

 

[Firebreaker]

I don't think Misbah or Afridi ever used this type of language on media

 

[Deosai]

Rameez education is the reason why he is bad. His education doesnt allow him to reply the way he did. Biting a dog if he bites you isnt act of a human.

Baloney! if somebody insults you, you have the right to respond in kind. It's only this Desi version of "Education" which implies you must always act like the nice guy. Rameez was too nice, should've gone all out on MoYo.

 

[marlonbrowndo]

I don't think Misbah or Afridi ever used this type of language on media

Afridi once badly insulted moyo i remember clearly

 

[marlonbrowndo]

Not a fan of ramiz but he held back. Couldve easily destroyed moyo

 

[Prince of Pakistan]

As for Afridi,He gave a dignified reply rather than using words like 'ghatiya' 'makaar'

And what about 'Aamir Sohail to hai he ghatiya insaan' a few years back?

 

[Fallen King]

Rameez earned his position to be honest - it's not easy for a Pakistani to earn a coveted job in Indian media, so he must have some credibility. Also, RR anchors lots of post-match presentations & I think he is one of the best. He might not be sharpest tools, but hardly embarrasses himself.

He got the job because of lack of competition in Pakistan commentator industry. Calling him commentator is insult to the actual commentators. That is coming from someone who has regularly backed Ramiz Raja against Mohammad Amir. He is documented embarrassment as commentator.

MoYo is a total failure as expert, not because of his English vocabulary or his flawed analysis (in fact his insights are better than most from PAK, I for one wrote several times that MoYo can be a Selector or batting coach), BUT, because he fails in fundamentals of a analyst - neutrality. For every instance, MoYo's has 2 explanations, depending on the person in question (& sorry for my words, like every Molla, he 'll try to impose his verdict to every listener, unconditionally).

He is one of the legend in Test format. A batsman like him is very rare in Pakistan cricket.

Due to his background and his drama-baaz pattern, people are misled about him. Actually, he is very sharp, and analyze the game very well. Sound smart in Urdu language, but most commentators are required to speak the global language for the world. And he is weak in global language which is English at this moment. He provides basic analysis of the game, point out the weakness of each batsmen, and and provide modern technique insight on the modern game. That's why he is big time critics of Misbah because according to him, Misbah belongs to 80s.

Problem is he also rants, and given his ego, his good points tend to be overlooked. Again, that is coming from someone who is big-time hater of him.

And here, he is trying to win a battle just like every illiterate, wrong headed people do - bringing irrelevant points to win an argument. Rameez has every right to question Aamir's inclusion in the team - he played under Imran & their values might have been different, what PCB does is their issue, Rambo is not going to "Nasihat" PCB.

He didn't. Ramiz Raja did. Yousuf had a good point. How can Ramiz claim to be expert of the game he is not legend at? Hence Ramiz Raja resorted to personal attack with "Maulvi" card. Normally, i would encourage Ramiz Raja to humiliate Yousuf due to his Maulvi organization that promotes ignorance, but this time, Ramiz Raja lost his cool due to his bitter truth about his stature as batsman in Test format thus weakens his position as commentator who is deemed as clueless about the game.

 

[Prince of Pakistan]

Afridi once badly insulted moyo i remember clearly

He also called Aamir Sohail ghatiya a few years back.

 

[Firebreaker]

Not a fan of ramiz but he held back. Couldve easily destroyed moyo

No he would have become irrelevant with his mullah jab

 

[Major]

As for Afridi,He gave a dignified reply rather than using words like 'ghatiya' 'makaar'

when did yo even start following cricket.

Afridi called Amir sohail a ghatiyan insaan on live tv. he was the first one to use such language on tv

 

[Monsee]

Rameez earned his position to be honest - it's not easy for a Pakistani to earn a coveted job in Indian media, so he must have some credibility. Also, RR anchors lots of post-match presentations & I think he is one of the best. He might not be sharpest tools, but hardly embarrasses himself.




May I suggest it is due to his habit of supreme behind kissing, never standing up for anything in favor of his motherland, showering praises on Indian cricket even at times acting more in love with it than an Indian supporter etc.




MoYo is a total failure as expert, not because of his English vocabulary or his flawed analysis (in fact his insights are better than most from PAK, I for one wrote several times that MoYo can be a Selector or batting coach), BUT, because he fails in fundamentals of a analyst - neutrality. For every instance, MoYo's has 2 explanations, depending on the person in question (& sorry for my words, like every Molla, he 'll try to impose his verdict to every listener, unconditionally).



Don't have much respect for him myself either...he is a has been hell bent on making a fool of himself infront of everyone




And here, he is trying to win a battle just like every illiterate, wrong headed people do - bringing irrelevant points to win an argument. Rameez has every right to question Aamir's inclusion in the team - he played under Imran & their values might have been different, what PCB does is their issue, Rambo is not going to "Nasihat" PCB.

For the last bit, where was Rameez when Saleem Malik, Akram, Waqar etc. were indulging in questionable practices? Why did he not raise a single voice, did not say anything at all while people like Rashid Latif and Basit Ali put their careers on the line to highlight what was going on?

Rameez is an equal opportunity grabber and remained quiet because he benefitted the most from all that, so and so that he got to further prolong his failed career and even became skipper as well. It is under his inspiring captaincy that he overworked M. Zahid into the career threatning injury while he was not fit!

 

[Major]

I dont understand how anyone could support this nakli molvi Yousuf.

Just because he ended up playing international cricketer he thinks no one has the right to critsize then himself. THis means that he is not only insulting Ramiz Raja but every cricket critic even on Pakpassion..

Rameez was right about Yousuf, who grew a beard, then you spread lies on Tv and use bad language.

Yousuf apparently said that Misbah brainwashed Azhar into hating Amir.

Rameez Raja is a respected commentator, he is the voice of Pakistan Cricket. While Yousuf is some cricketer who now sits on Geo Super nothing else. Rameez Raja works for multiple channels for live match coverage.

 

[Major]

For what I know Ramiz is an educated person.He shouldn't have made cheap shots at Yousuf over his illiteracy

so an illiterate person has the right to shame on national tv, while you listen on the other end.

 

[Firebreaker]

so an illiterate person has the right to shame on national tv, while you listen on the other end.

Two wrongs doesn't make one right

 

[pasha404]

if you go into history Ramiz has done this to Yusuf before and this time it was Yusuf 's turn.if you look at tests Ramez was not even half the player which Yusuf was.education,beared etc does not matter here Yusuf was simply a better player then Ramiz and as was said recently by John Terry people will only take criticism from great players not like Robbie Savage(read here Ramez)

 

[Firebreaker]

I dont understand how anyone could support this nakli molvi Yousuf.

Just because he ended up playing international cricketer he thinks no one has the right to critsize then himself. THis means that he is not only insulting Ramiz Raja but every cricket critic even on Pakpassion..

Rameez was right about Yousuf, who grew a beard, then you spread lies on Tv and use bad language.

Yousuf apparently said that Misbah brainwashed Azhar into hating Amir.

Rameez Raja is a respected commentator, he is the voice of Pakistan Cricket. While Yousuf is some cricketer who now sits on Geo Super nothing else. Rameez Raja works for multiple channels for live match coverage.

So Ramiz is right in this? No way Pakistan is such a failed state.Everyone who is more educated gets the upper hand.Criticizing is another thing and making personal remarks and using molvi card is another thing

 

[endymion248]

I'm no fan of his but Yousuf completely floored Ramiz Raja here. He spoke nothing but truth about Ramiz's cricketing credentials, while all Ramiz could say was "You have a beard" and "You can't speak Urdu". These childish retorts by Ramiz only supported Yousuf's point: Raja is a mediocre cricketer to whom people only listen because he talks pretty Urdu and English (relatively to other cricketers). And what kind of smart man is Raja anyways that he let a stupid mulla like yousuf get him emotional and still beat him in the argument?

If someone as fundamentally dumb as moyo can have the better of me in an argument, I'd retire from commentary and punditry right now.

 

[anakwalajinn]

At least Yousuf is saying "aap aap" instead of "tum tum"

On a more serious note. Yousuf has been such a huge dissapointment after his playing career. Growing up, I really used to look up to him. Such a shame...

 

[AlphaFighter]

Beautiful stuff. For someone like ramiz who constantly preaches about dignity, respectful criticism this was completely hypocritical and this is the second time he started it.

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[Slog]

Some flashbacks


<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/YqSMNE9-DsI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/3Gmkt_1f5m8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Markhor]

Firstly, Yousuf has no right to lecture about integrity given he ran off to the ICL after being left out of the 2007 T20 WC and was one of the main instigators of oathgate.

Secondly, this argument that if you weren't a top cricketer your opinions are worthless is nonsense. Do you need 50 Test caps before you can form a cricketing opinion in Yousuf's world ? There have been many pundits and cricket journalists who have never played internationally but have been the best and most insightful analysts around.

Everybody is entitled to their opinions about Amir's comeback, if a commentator has a contrary view then respectfully disagree instead of holding their cricketing abilities against them or levelling personal insults at them. I didn't like Rameez stooping to Yousuf's level - everybody by now can see Yousuf's true character with his TV apperances where he makes a fool of himself - but Rameez making these remarks will only make Yousuf appear like the victim.

 

[Slog]

if you go into history Ramiz has done this to Yusuf before and this time it was Yusuf 's turn.if you look at tests Ramez was not even half the player which Yusuf was.education,beared etc does not matter here Yusuf was simply a better player then Ramiz and as was said recently by John Terry people will only take criticism from great players not like Robbie Savage(read here Ramez)

what does being the better player have anything to do though

Yousuf's argument is stupid to the core here. If anyone subscribes to it then they should stop posting on PP today because Yousuf doesnt think they have any right to an opinion and neither does it hold any value

 

[dhump]

Is it just me not bothered about whose right and whose wrong here as both of them reacted shamelessly like totally uncivilized fool ?


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[Slog]

Yousuf v Malik
Yousuf v Misbah
Yousuf v Afridi
Yousuf v Rameez Raja

I see one constant

 

[DesiPassion]

Rameez raja has no class! He is an English teacher! Well said Yousuf Bhai! Rameez Raja went too far!!

 

[Major]

So Ramiz is right in this? No way Pakistan is such a failed state.Everyone who is more educated gets the upper hand.Criticizing is another thing and making personal remarks and using molvi card is another thing

At the end of the day, it was Yousuf who instigated the bakwas, and rameez gave him a good reply.

 

[Major]

I'm no fan of his but Yousuf completely floored Ramiz Raja here. He spoke nothing but truth about Ramiz's cricketing credentials, while all Ramiz could say was "You have a beard" and "You can't speak Urdu". These childish retorts by Ramiz only supported Yousuf's point: Raja is a mediocre cricketer to whom people only listen because he talks pretty Urdu and English (relatively to other cricketers). And what kind of smart man is Raja anyways that he let a stupid mulla like yousuf get him emotional and still beat him in the argument?

If someone as fundamentally dumb as moyo can have the better of me in an argument, I'd retire from commentary and punditry right now.

So you are saying that if you were a medicore cricketer or not even played international at all, you have no right to be a critic on tv or even be a commentator?

Say this to Mike hesson, New Zealand Coach, who has only played club cricket in his life yet coached New Zealand to its first world cup final.

 

[Firebreaker]

At the end of the day, it was Yousuf who instigated the bakwas, and rameez gave him a good reply.

It was Ramiz who got personal

 

[pasha404]

what does being the better player have anything to do though

Yousuf's argument is stupid to the core here. If anyone subscribes to it then they should stop posting on PP today because Yousuf doesnt think they have any right to an opinion and neither does it hold any value

Ok your Royal highness if we disagree with you so we do not have to post

 

[Fallen King]

Hadnt seen this before

totally uncalled for on Ramiz. Looks sth happened right before this though. These 2 have a long history. I wonder what the actual initial reason is.

For eg, Yousufs problem with Misbah is the t20 wc 2007 spot which he thnks Misbah unfairly got in his place. what about this case?

Beats me. Maybe it has to do with Yousuf criticizing Pakistan cricket too much whereas Ramiz Raja goes out of his way to back Pakistan cricket through thick and thin. Or maybe he is hurt the action of Mohammad Yousuf in the past regarding ICL, Oath-taking,..etc?

We got fed up with Mohammad Yousuf eventually. Maybe for the same reason he got fed up too? Thus the beginning of unfriendly relationship between them i presume.

 

[Slog]

Ok your Royal highness if we disagree with you so we do not have to post

totally went over your head didnt it?

Yousuf said that Ramiz was not a great cricketer and hence his opinions are worthless and he shouldnt be commenting on cricket. Which means that according to Yousuf unless you are a great cricketer you shouldnt comment on cricket. If you agree with Yousufs views then according to him you should also stop posting because he doesnt think you have the right to comment on cricket.

 

[Major]

It was Ramiz who got personal

oh nahi, yousuf was complimenting Ramiz right?

And theres one vocal third person. I wont take his name but this guy has achieved nothing in his life. He has no cricketing achievements to show and is nothing more than an English teacher. I cant take the opinion of someone who achieved nothing in cricket seriosuly.
-

he clearly not only disrespected Rameez, but showed his superiority complex.

 

[Fallen King]

At the end of the day, it was Yousuf who instigated the bakwas, and rameez gave him a good reply.

You can dispute the debate with reasonable counter argument. Pulling "Moulvi" card just because you have no counter argument is no excuse. Beard is personal matter. Not just this debate, Ramiz brought his beard into the matter in the past too which i just embedded the video post above. Yousuf was within the right to question his credibility as commentator due to his stature as batsmen in Test format.

 

[tigerkhan]

Rameez made an uncalled for reference to Yousuf's beard. Rameez started it and Yousuf finished it. Rameez had it coming.

Yousuf is right. Rameez was kept in the team while the likes of Saeed Anwars were not even selected.

It's a miracle that Rameez played so many tests. Actually not a miracle but good social networking by Rameez.

Comparing MY's batting level with MY's would be a joke.

One more thing, RR comes hard on MY only because MY used to be a from a minority group and got converted. To a non-convert, RR would think 10 times before referring to the beard.

 

[Usman]

Whilst MoYo is, as always, way out of line, he is not wrong in what he says (just the way he said it was inappropriate). Who the hell does Ramiz think he is using his influence to stop Amir returning to the team? Forget whether Amir should or should not return, but what right does Ramiz have to try and stop it?

What does Wasim have to say? What does Imran have to say? What does Misbah have to say? These are some of the people who I respect as great cricketers and I will take seriously whatever they think about the issue. But Ramiz? Come on - he was an average cricketer at best (and that's being kind). Is the fate of any cricketer (never mind one which is potentially the best cricketer in Pakistan) really to be influenced by Ramiz simply because he can speak English?

Although MoYo's conduct is not good here, I'm glad someone had the guts to tell Ramiz how it is.

 

[pasha404]

^point taken
Yusuf is employed by Geo and controversial people like him,Sarfaraz,Akhter are the darlings of media as they are cause for the high ratings.unfortunately our masses like these ugly cat fights

 

[Fallen King]

totally went over your head didnt it?

Yousuf said that Ramiz was not a great cricketer and hence his opinions are worthless and he shouldnt be commenting on cricket. Which means that according to Yousuf unless you are a great cricketer you shouldnt comment on cricket. If you agree with Yousufs views then according to him you should also stop posting because he doesnt think you have the right to comment on cricket.

Of course people would disagree, but it should be done with reasonable counter argument, not resorting to personal attack like beard, Maulvi,..etc. This time Ramiz Raja got riled up which is not that often. First time for everything i guess.

 

[endymion248]

So you are saying that if you were a medicore cricketer or not even played international at all, you have no right to be a critic on tv or even be a commentator?

Say this to Mike hesson, New Zealand Coach, who has only played club cricket in his life yet coached New Zealand to its first world cup final.

No, but the fact that Ramiz didn't give this easy answer to Moyo or go the Hafeez way (i.e. I was an average cricketer but I played with passion and integrity unlike you) is exactly why Moyo got the better of him. Ramiz became emotional and gave some truly simple-minded answers like "You can't speak Urdu" or "I know how much cricket you played" (when Moyo played almost a hundred test matches at a 50+ average).

 

[Major]

You can dispute the debate with reasonable counter argument. Pulling "Moulvi" card just because you have no counter argument is no excuse. Beard is personal matter. Not just this debate, Ramiz brought his beard into the matter in the past too which i just embedded the video post above. Yousuf was within the right to question his credibility as commentator due to his stature as batsmen in Test format.

Beard shows that a person is religious, and if you spread lies and insult others by having a beard it just shows that you contradict with your own religion

Yousuf was right? Tell me one thing, which top class commentator is world class legend? In todays cricket we have a coach who has only played club cirkcet yet took his team to finals of the world cup(mike hesson NZ)

COmmentating is adifferent skill all together, your verbal skills are evaluated. If all of a sudden we get boring world class legend to commentate, cricket would be the most boring sport

 

[princeuk]

Oh dear that was painful viewing, I have never seen ramiz getting drawn into these kind of heated arguments and as a listener that was plain embarrassing. Other Pakistani players have complained about yousaf too so I am see a pattern of behaviour, it is yousaf that seems to be the chief instigator.

And a good cricketer doesn't have to be a good commentator, they hire ramiz cos he is better than yousaf, regardless of what kind of cricketer yousaf was. That behaviour and language is just shocking.

 

[Major]

No, but the fact that Ramiz didn't give this easy answer to Moyo or go the Hafeez way (i.e. I was an average cricketer but I played with passion and integrity unlike you) is exactly why Moyo got the better of him. Ramiz became emotional and gave some truly simple-minded answers like "You can't speak Urdu" or "I know how much cricket you played" (when Moyo played almost a hundred test matches at a 50+ average).

so are we discussing whether what Yousuf said was totally wrong or which person came with the better diss/come back?

 

[Fallen King]

Beard shows that a person is religious, and if you spread lies and insult others by having a beard it just shows that you contradict with your own religion

Yousuf was right? Tell me one thing, which top class commentator is world class legend? In todays cricket we have a coach who has only played club cirkcet yet took his team to finals of the world cup(mike hesson NZ)

COmmentating is adifferent skill all together, your verbal skills are evaluated. If all of a sudden we get boring world class legend to commentate, cricket would be the most boring sport

I agree with both, the responsibility of beard and the skills of commentators.

But this time Yousuf didn't lie. He was right to question the credibility of Ramiz Raja as commentator due to his historical stature as batsman in Test format. Ramiz Raja could have pointed out the certain factors of required skills for the jobs of commentators. Instead he lost his temper and the rest is history.

 

[Slog]

I agree with both, the responsibility of beard and the skills of commentators.

But this time Yousuf didn't lie. He was right to question the credibility of Ramiz Raja as commentator due to his historical stature as batsmen in Test format. Ramiz Raja could have pointed out the certain factors of required skills for the jobs of commentators. What did he do? That is documented alright.

He won a World Cup

Yousuf got first round knockouts in the 2 full world cups he played

That's besides the point though. The whole logic being used is frankly stupid that because you are a better cricketer the other doesn't have right to comment on cricket

 

[Markhor]

Frankly both the shots at Rameez's playing career and Yousuf's beard were uncalled for and had nothing to do with the actual topic of Amir's comeback.

There's a saying if you wrestle with a pig you both get dirty - neither came out with any credit from this.

 

[Slog]

Frankly both the shots at Rameez's playing career and Yousuf's beard were both uncalled for and had nothing to do with the actual topic of Amir's comeback.

There's a saying if you wrestle with a pig you both get dirty - neither came out with any credit from this.

Once Yousuf had already attacked Ramiz and said that this person achieved nothing in his life or career and that his opinion is worthless, what did you expect Ramiz to respond with?

 

[Fallen King]

He won a World Cup

Yousuf got first round knockouts in the 2 full world cups he played

That's besides the point though. The whole logic being used is frankly stupid that because you are a better cricketer the other doesn't have right to comment on cricket

That's what he should have said this instead.

 

[Pakpak]

Disgraceful by both. Its as simple as that. Clearly both of them have a problem with each other, the TV show brings them together for ratings as they know they won't get any sort of meaningful discussion out of them both.

 

[endymion248]

so are we discussing whether what Yousuf said was totally wrong or which person came with the better diss/come back?

Is Ramiz paid to be right or to be articulate? His whole leitmotiv here is that he is smarter and more educated than Yousuf yet Yousuf gave sharp answers to him while Ramiz barely made any sense.

 

[Fallen King]

In addition;

But this time Yousuf didn't lie. He was right to question the credibility of Ramiz Raja as commentator due to his historical stature as batsman in Test format. Ramiz Raja could have pointed out the certain factors of required skills for the jobs of commentators. What did he do? That is documented alright.

Important point which Mohammad Yousuf pointed: Historical stature as batsman in Test format.

 

[Firebreaker]

He won a World Cup

Yousuf got first round knockouts in the 2 full world cups he played

That's besides the point though. The whole logic being used is frankly stupid that because you are a better cricketer the other doesn't have right to comment on cricket

Navas won a WC.Chellini got first round knockouts in the 2 full WCs he played

 

[Markhor]

Once Yousuf had already attacked Ramiz and said that this person achieved nothing in his life or career and that his opinion is worthless, what did you expect Ramiz to respond with?

I know yaar, Yousuf is a shameless character but Rameez shouldn't have descended to his level and his rebuttals weren't that effective, instead Yousuf comes out looking like the victim or according to some the winner of this 'debate'.

Actually the biggest loser here is Geo Super for having such trashy television. Is this what they're reduced to, instead of any meaningful cricket coverage they now have ex-players exchanging personal insults for ratings.