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[VIDEOS] Why anti Muslim bias is so profound among Hindutva supporters?

Ok then what is Manusmriti Chapter no 5, Verse 40 which allows consumption of cow meat?
Lets see... Below is from Manu Smriti 5.40. We don't believe in Manu Smriti. But still below is the explanation. No mention of cow. But nice try though.

ओषध्यः पशवो वृक्षास्तिर्यञ्चः पक्षिणस्तथा ।
यज्ञार्थं निधनं प्राप्ताः प्राप्नुवन्त्युत्सृतीः पुनः ॥ ४० ॥

oṣadhyaḥ paśavo vṛkṣāstiryañcaḥ pakṣiṇastathā |
yajñārthaṃ nidhanaṃ prāptāḥ prāpnuvantyutsṛtīḥ punaḥ || 40 ||

Herbs, animals, trees, beasts and birds, reaching death for the sake of sacrifices, attain advancements.—(40)


Medhātithi’s commentary (manubhāṣya):​

“How is it known that killing at sacrifices involves no sin?”

The answer is as follows:—‘killing’ is the greatest injury that can befall the being killed; because it involves such great evil as the loss of life, involving separation from wife, children and riches, and all the attendant evil consequences; and also because it carries the entities nearer to the fruition of their sins in the form of hell and the like. But when an animal is killed at a sacrifice, this killing becomes a great benefit conferred upon it, and it is not an injury; because it does not lead it to hell nr any such undesirable conditions. That this is so follows from the fact that those ‘reaching death’— destruction—at a sacrifice —‘attain advancements’—higher positions, in regard to caste and so forth;—being born as a God or a Gandharva, or as men born in better countries or continents—such as the Uttarakuru and the like.

The whole of this is a purely commendatory description. We do not find here any Injunction: the verb ‘attain’ being in the simple Present tense. Nor is there any justification for deducing an Injunction from the commendatory description,—as is done in the case of the passage ‘Pratitiṣṭhanti etc.’ (v ide, Mīmāṃsā-Sūtra, 4.3.17. et seq); because in the present case neither there is, nor is there any possibility of, any other Injunction (apart from those already set forth in the text).

The whole of this descriptive section is supplementary to the prohibition of the eating of unlawful meat; and the upshot of the prohibition contained in these verses is that ‘one should never seek to kill animals needlessly.’ (verse 37) As for the sanction (of killing) implied in the statement—‘animals have been created for the purpose of sacrifices’ (39),—all this is understood as involving the prohibition of eating which is going to be distinctly emphasised below in verse 48.

Nor can any Injunction (such as ‘desiring advancement, the animal shall die at a sacrifice’) be deduced from the text. Because such an Injunction could not be intended for the animals; for the simple reason that they would not understand it. And those for whom the Injunction is not intended cannot be the agent; and unless one is an agent, he cannot obtain any reward declared in the scriptures. Specially as in the present case, the result spoken of does not proceed in any perceptible manner from the nature of the thing involved; as there is, for instance, in the case of the poison, which produces its results even on ignorant persons who take it. There is no such thing in the case of things spoken of in the Veda.

Further, since the herbs and other things spoken of here ore unconscious beings, the ‘principle of the priests’ cannot apply to their case. That is to say, it is found that in the case of sacrificial performances, results are spoken of as accruing to one person (the sacrificer) from the acts that are actually done by others,—i. e., the priests officiating for him; e.g., in the case of the passage—‘he desires one to become worse etc,’ In the case of such passages we admit of an Injunction, because what is there stated is not capable of being taken as supplementary to any other Injunction, and secondly because the indication of the Injunction, is quite clear, and lastly, because the Injunction indicated is found to be one that pertains to human beings.

In the case of all scriptural statements, we are entitled to deduce just as much us may be reasonably deduced from the actual words of the text. For instance, it has been declared that the Brāhmaṇa joining in the sacrificial bath of other people should have to perform an expiatory rite [and we have to accent this, even though we fail to see any reason for it]. In the present case, however, there is no possibility of any Injunction being addressed to the beings concerned (all of which are inanimate).

Herbs,’—grass and the like.

Animate,’—the goat and other beasts (which are mentioned as fit for being offered at sacrifices).

Trees,’—such as are objects of worship.


Beasts,’—those which, though not ordinarily regarded as fit for sacrificing, happen to be mentioned, in some passages, as to be offered; e.g., ‘one shall kill partridges.’ Though at the Vājapeya and similar sacrifices, the calves are used only for the purpose of carrying loads, yet they are called ‘beasts;’ and even though these do not suffer actual death, yet the term ‘death’ in their case stands for all the sufferings that they undergo.

Bird.”—the Kapiñjala and the rest; even though these are sometimes spoken of as ‘animals’, yet, as a rule, they are not known by that name: for in such passages as there are seven tame animals and seven wild animals’, the animals meant are the cow and the rest, which are not birds; in fact the term ‘paśu’, ‘animals, denotes quadrupods; or the difference between ‘animals’ and ‘birds’ may be regarded as similar to that between the ‘go’ and the‘balvarda’ (the former term being wider than the latter) (40).

 
Prove it to us that cows are scared to Hindus.

Also how is it a secular state if you impose your beliefs on others? its sacred to you, don't kill it. why should I have to live by your beliefs?

Vedas and Mahabharata have multiple verses on cows.

No one asked you to live by my beliefs. You probably won't get a visa to India.

We don't allow anyone to insult any religion. That's secular for us.

Its funny that a Pakistani is talking about secularism.

First make Pakistan secular before giving lectures on secularism.
 
the calves are used only for the purpose of carrying loads, yet they are called ‘beasts;’ and even though these do not suffer actual death, yet the term ‘death’ in their case stands for all the sufferings that they undergo.
For the first time I feel lucky that you are an atheist plz explain this. As you always rely on logic what is your opinion on calves sacrifice here as compared to other 'beasts and goats sacrifice'

How sufferings = death plz explain mate.
 
Ok then what is Manusmriti Chapter no 5, Verse 40 which allows consumption of cow meat?
LOL. Manusmriti explicitly forbids cow consumption (4.162), and 5:40 does not allow it, it only makes generic statement, doesn't say anything about the cow.

Quote the source ( it must be english translation of the original sanskrit),
 
For the first time I feel lucky that you are an atheist plz explain this. As you always rely on logic what is your opinion on calves sacrifice here as compared to other 'beasts and goats sacrifice'
4.162 explicitly mentions cows.
5.40 does not mention cow.

So it is obvious that it is for other beasts.
 
Lets see... Below is from Manu Smriti 5.40. We don't believe in Manu Smriti. But still below is the explanation. No mention of cow. But nice try though.

ओषध्यः पशवो वृक्षास्तिर्यञ्चः पक्षिणस्तथा ।
यज्ञार्थं निधनं प्राप्ताः प्राप्नुवन्त्युत्सृतीः पुनः ॥ ४० ॥

oṣadhyaḥ paśavo vṛkṣāstiryañcaḥ pakṣiṇastathā |
yajñārthaṃ nidhanaṃ prāptāḥ prāpnuvantyutsṛtīḥ punaḥ || 40 ||

Herbs, animals, trees, beasts and birds, reaching death for the sake of sacrifices, attain advancements.—(40)


Medhātithi’s commentary (manubhāṣya):​

“How is it known that killing at sacrifices involves no sin?”

The answer is as follows:—‘killing’ is the greatest injury that can befall the being killed; because it involves such great evil as the loss of life, involving separation from wife, children and riches, and all the attendant evil consequences; and also because it carries the entities nearer to the fruition of their sins in the form of hell and the like. But when an animal is killed at a sacrifice, this killing becomes a great benefit conferred upon it, and it is not an injury; because it does not lead it to hell nr any such undesirable conditions. That this is so follows from the fact that those ‘reaching death’— destruction—at a sacrifice —‘attain advancements’—higher positions, in regard to caste and so forth;—being born as a God or a Gandharva, or as men born in better countries or continents—such as the Uttarakuru and the like.

The whole of this is a purely commendatory description. We do not find here any Injunction: the verb ‘attain’ being in the simple Present tense. Nor is there any justification for deducing an Injunction from the commendatory description,—as is done in the case of the passage ‘Pratitiṣṭhanti etc.’ (v ide, Mīmāṃsā-Sūtra, 4.3.17. et seq); because in the present case neither there is, nor is there any possibility of, any other Injunction (apart from those already set forth in the text).

The whole of this descriptive section is supplementary to the prohibition of the eating of unlawful meat; and the upshot of the prohibition contained in these verses is that ‘one should never seek to kill animals needlessly.’ (verse 37) As for the sanction (of killing) implied in the statement—‘animals have been created for the purpose of sacrifices’ (39),—all this is understood as involving the prohibition of eating which is going to be distinctly emphasised below in verse 48.

Nor can any Injunction (such as ‘desiring advancement, the animal shall die at a sacrifice’) be deduced from the text. Because such an Injunction could not be intended for the animals; for the simple reason that they would not understand it. And those for whom the Injunction is not intended cannot be the agent; and unless one is an agent, he cannot obtain any reward declared in the scriptures. Specially as in the present case, the result spoken of does not proceed in any perceptible manner from the nature of the thing involved; as there is, for instance, in the case of the poison, which produces its results even on ignorant persons who take it. There is no such thing in the case of things spoken of in the Veda.

Further, since the herbs and other things spoken of here ore unconscious beings, the ‘principle of the priests’ cannot apply to their case. That is to say, it is found that in the case of sacrificial performances, results are spoken of as accruing to one person (the sacrificer) from the acts that are actually done by others,—i. e., the priests officiating for him; e.g., in the case of the passage—‘he desires one to become worse etc,’ In the case of such passages we admit of an Injunction, because what is there stated is not capable of being taken as supplementary to any other Injunction, and secondly because the indication of the Injunction, is quite clear, and lastly, because the Injunction indicated is found to be one that pertains to human beings.

In the case of all scriptural statements, we are entitled to deduce just as much us may be reasonably deduced from the actual words of the text. For instance, it has been declared that the Brāhmaṇa joining in the sacrificial bath of other people should have to perform an expiatory rite [and we have to accent this, even though we fail to see any reason for it]. In the present case, however, there is no possibility of any Injunction being addressed to the beings concerned (all of which are inanimate).

Herbs,’—grass and the like.

Animate,’—the goat and other beasts (which are mentioned as fit for being offered at sacrifices).

Trees,’—such as are objects of worship.


Beasts,’—those which, though not ordinarily regarded as fit for sacrificing, happen to be mentioned, in some passages, as to be offered; e.g., ‘one shall kill partridges.’ Though at the Vājapeya and similar sacrifices, the calves are used only for the purpose of carrying loads, yet they are called ‘beasts;’ and even though these do not suffer actual death, yet the term ‘death’ in their case stands for all the sufferings that they undergo.

Bird.”—the Kapiñjala and the rest; even though these are sometimes spoken of as ‘animals’, yet, as a rule, they are not known by that name: for in such passages as there are seven tame animals and seven wild animals’, the animals meant are the cow and the rest, which are not birds; in fact the term ‘paśu’, ‘animals, denotes quadrupods; or the difference between ‘animals’ and ‘birds’ may be regarded as similar to that between the ‘go’ and the‘balvarda’ (the former term being wider than the latter) (40).

@CricketCartoons check this and Manusmriti ch 5 verse 40 too as follow:
===
40. Herbs, trees, cattle, birds, and (other) animals that have been destroyed for sacrifices, receive (being reborn) higher existences.
 
@CricketCartoons check this and Manusmriti ch 5 verse 40 too as follow:
===
40. Herbs, trees, cattle, birds, and (other) animals that have been destroyed for sacrifices, receive (being reborn) higher existences.
first of all no one cares about Manu smriti. It is a terrible book. It is not an authority for Hindus. No one refers to Manu Smriti when questioned on Hinduism. It is either Vedas or Geeta.

Secondly, there is no mention of cows. Buffaloes are part of cattle. Even today buffaloes are sacrificed in some temples as offerings to the Deity.
 
Lets see... Below is from Manu Smriti 5.40. We don't believe in Manu Smriti. But still below is the explanation. No mention of cow. But nice try though.

ओषध्यः पशवो वृक्षास्तिर्यञ्चः पक्षिणस्तथा ।
यज्ञार्थं निधनं प्राप्ताः प्राप्नुवन्त्युत्सृतीः पुनः ॥ ४० ॥

oṣadhyaḥ paśavo vṛkṣāstiryañcaḥ pakṣiṇastathā |
yajñārthaṃ nidhanaṃ prāptāḥ prāpnuvantyutsṛtīḥ punaḥ || 40 ||

Herbs, animals, trees, beasts and birds, reaching death for the sake of sacrifices, attain advancements.—(40)


Medhātithi’s commentary (manubhāṣya):​

“How is it known that killing at sacrifices involves no sin?”

The answer is as follows:—‘killing’ is the greatest injury that can befall the being killed; because it involves such great evil as the loss of life, involving separation from wife, children and riches, and all the attendant evil consequences; and also because it carries the entities nearer to the fruition of their sins in the form of hell and the like. But when an animal is killed at a sacrifice, this killing becomes a great benefit conferred upon it, and it is not an injury; because it does not lead it to hell nr any such undesirable conditions. That this is so follows from the fact that those ‘reaching death’— destruction—at a sacrifice —‘attain advancements’—higher positions, in regard to caste and so forth;—being born as a God or a Gandharva, or as men born in better countries or continents—such as the Uttarakuru and the like.

The whole of this is a purely commendatory description. We do not find here any Injunction: the verb ‘attain’ being in the simple Present tense. Nor is there any justification for deducing an Injunction from the commendatory description,—as is done in the case of the passage ‘Pratitiṣṭhanti etc.’ (v ide, Mīmāṃsā-Sūtra, 4.3.17. et seq); because in the present case neither there is, nor is there any possibility of, any other Injunction (apart from those already set forth in the text).

The whole of this descriptive section is supplementary to the prohibition of the eating of unlawful meat; and the upshot of the prohibition contained in these verses is that ‘one should never seek to kill animals needlessly.’ (verse 37) As for the sanction (of killing) implied in the statement—‘animals have been created for the purpose of sacrifices’ (39),—all this is understood as involving the prohibition of eating which is going to be distinctly emphasised below in verse 48.

Nor can any Injunction (such as ‘desiring advancement, the animal shall die at a sacrifice’) be deduced from the text. Because such an Injunction could not be intended for the animals; for the simple reason that they would not understand it. And those for whom the Injunction is not intended cannot be the agent; and unless one is an agent, he cannot obtain any reward declared in the scriptures. Specially as in the present case, the result spoken of does not proceed in any perceptible manner from the nature of the thing involved; as there is, for instance, in the case of the poison, which produces its results even on ignorant persons who take it. There is no such thing in the case of things spoken of in the Veda.

Further, since the herbs and other things spoken of here ore unconscious beings, the ‘principle of the priests’ cannot apply to their case. That is to say, it is found that in the case of sacrificial performances, results are spoken of as accruing to one person (the sacrificer) from the acts that are actually done by others,—i. e., the priests officiating for him; e.g., in the case of the passage—‘he desires one to become worse etc,’ In the case of such passages we admit of an Injunction, because what is there stated is not capable of being taken as supplementary to any other Injunction, and secondly because the indication of the Injunction, is quite clear, and lastly, because the Injunction indicated is found to be one that pertains to human beings.

In the case of all scriptural statements, we are entitled to deduce just as much us may be reasonably deduced from the actual words of the text. For instance, it has been declared that the Brāhmaṇa joining in the sacrificial bath of other people should have to perform an expiatory rite [and we have to accent this, even though we fail to see any reason for it]. In the present case, however, there is no possibility of any Injunction being addressed to the beings concerned (all of which are inanimate).

Herbs,’—grass and the like.

Animate,’—the goat and other beasts (which are mentioned as fit for being offered at sacrifices).

Trees,’—such as are objects of worship.


Beasts,’—those which, though not ordinarily regarded as fit for sacrificing, happen to be mentioned, in some passages, as to be offered; e.g., ‘one shall kill partridges.’ Though at the Vājapeya and similar sacrifices, the calves are used only for the purpose of carrying loads, yet they are called ‘beasts;’ and even though these do not suffer actual death, yet the term ‘death’ in their case stands for all the sufferings that they undergo.

Bird.”—the Kapiñjala and the rest; even though these are sometimes spoken of as ‘animals’, yet, as a rule, they are not known by that name: for in such passages as there are seven tame animals and seven wild animals’, the animals meant are the cow and the rest, which are not birds; in fact the term ‘paśu’, ‘animals, denotes quadrupods; or the difference between ‘animals’ and ‘birds’ may be regarded as similar to that between the ‘go’ and the‘balvarda’ (the former term being wider than the latter) (40).

Well you provided this yourself @Champ_Pal , now plz explain that calves mean cow's young ones or someone's else?
 
Vedas and Mahabharata have multiple verses on cows.

No one asked you to live by my beliefs. You probably won't get a visa to India.

We don't allow anyone to insult any religion. That's secular for us.

Its funny that a Pakistani is talking about secularism.

First make Pakistan secular before giving lectures on secularism.
prove it. like you asked me tio furnish some evidence about Islamic influence on Sikhism. also how you asked me to prove if someone of my claims affect you or others. your claim affects Muslims. whether I am Pakistani or American and not Indian, is immaterial to this debate.

you have already set a precedent for holding each other accountable for our claims so don't chicken out now that I am holding you responsible for your claims.

prove to me that cow is sacred to Hindus and cannot be killed. and prove to me in light of your claim how India is a secular nation if it imposes its stature of cows being sacred on others by restricting them from eating it.

If you cannot prove any of it, simply apologize and we can move on.
 
The hymn 8.3. 25 of the Hindu scripture Atharvaveda (~1200–1500 BCE) condemns all killings of men, cattle, and horses, and prays to god Agni to punish those who kill. Prithu chasing Prithvi, who is in the form of a cow. Prithu milked the cow to generate crops for humans.
I thought we had agreed that modern Hindus don't put any stock in vedas and upanishads were really the books of guidance for modern Hindus. there is all sorts of referenced to killing men in rig veda and because of that most Hindus don't care for it.

or am I misremembering stuff? Hindus keep flip flopping and its hard to keep track of what they are following on the day.
 
first of all no one cares about Manu smriti. It is a terrible book. It is not an authority for Hindus. No one refers to Manu Smriti when questioned on Hinduism. It is either Vedas or Geeta.

Secondly, there is no mention of cows. Buffaloes are part of cattle. Even today buffaloes are sacrificed in some temples as offerings to the Deity.
Is this reliable source or not in Hinduism?
1725043167466.jpg
 
Well you provided this yourself @Champ_Pal , now plz explain that calves mean cow's young ones or someone's else?
Manu Smeiti is not an authority on Hinduism. It is widely criticized and not accepted by majority of Hindus.

The laws are made taking Hindu scriptures into account. Cow meat is banned and that’s about it.

Next time try from Vedas or Upanishads or Geeta. I will give it a serious response.
 
I thought we had agreed that modern Hindus don't put any stock in vedas and upanishads were really the books of guidance for modern Hindus. there is all sorts of referenced to killing men in rig veda and because of that most Hindus don't care for it.

or am I misremembering stuff? Hindus keep flip flopping and its hard to keep track of what they are following on the day.
They don’t. No one refers to Vedas to support their faith. Many Hindus don’t even know how many Vedas are there let alone their names. Only scholars refer to it.

Hindus go by Indian secular laws. They can pray to any Gods they want or choose to.
 
Atherva veda book 9 Hymn 4 verses 37-38-39 gives _expression that
cow's milk and cow's meat are most tasty among all other foods. It
says "The man should not eat before the guest who is Brahmin versed in
holy lore When the guest hath eaten he should eat. Now the sweetest
portion, the produce of cow, milk or flesh, that verily he should not
eat (before the guest)"

according Hindu Scriptures, In Vishnu Dharmottar Puran book 1 chapter
140 verses 49 & 50 says

"Those who do not eat meat served in the ceremony of dead
(Shraddha), will go to hell (narak)".

 
Buffaloes have calves.

No one cares about what Manu Smriti says. This is like me pointing to some Zaif Hadiths to prove something regarding Islam. I am sure you will not accept it.
Ok just forget it, answer mahabahrtha, vedac and Vishnu Dharmottar Puran references above
 
Ok just forget it, answer mahabahrtha, vedac and Vishnu Dharmottar Puran references above
Vedic Brahmans used to sacrifice horse and cows and the meat was consumed.
Rigveda has verses of it.

It also has verses that consider cow meat as aghnyā ("not to be eaten" or "inviolable"). There is definite ambiguity there.

Hinduism is an evolving religion. At some point, the concept of Kama Dhenu or sacred cow was introduced. Everything about cow has use in some form.
Milk, curd and Ghee for culinary purposes.
Urine and Dung in Ayurveda()Traditional Indian medicine) and cleansing agents. This is where you get the cowca cola memes.

Cow slaughter was totally banned at some point. My guess is as the idea spread to gangetic plains.
 
They don’t. No one refers to Vedas to support their faith. Many Hindus don’t even know how many Vedas are there let alone their names. Only scholars refer to it.

Hindus go by Indian secular laws. They can pray to any Gods they want or choose to.
well at least you are honest about your views and it seems like you disagree with the whole silly SACRED cow concept.
 
What is the thread about?
We were discussing about religion. Claims were made by Pak posters and they were countered. Some got upset.

Now Pak posters are on offensive. Indian posters are countering their arguments on beef consumption in India.
 
Cows, Mughals and BJP. Are these really your three takeaways from the thread
haha.. this is an interesting observation. how can it not be what you are probably saying in sarcasm?\

Muslims, including Pakistanis love to bash BJP because of Modi and their anti Muslim policies, Mughals are hated by Hindus for being oppressors and conquerors who took their land and now they are getting their revenge by using the Holy Cow defense. Yes, I did use the reference to the if the glove don't fit defense.

This is all there is to Indian Pakistani Hindustva brigade arguments on PP these days. Welcome to the reality!
 
We were discussing about religion. Claims were made by Pak posters and they were countered. Some got upset.

Now Pak posters are on offensive. Indian posters are countering their arguments on beef consumption in India.
You are forgetting to add the Pakistani request: "Either we stop asking each other to prove our claims while discussing religion or we try and stay consistent with our beliefs and not behave as hypocritical"
 
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well at least you are honest about your views and it seems like you disagree with the whole silly SACRED cow concept.
I don’t think cows are sacred personally. I don’t hold grudges on anyone that eats it. It is their choice.

The concept of sacred cow is part of Indian traditions. A cow is sacred in Buddhism and Jainism too. Certainly all 3 beliefs influenced each other.
 
Come on, you are being disingenuous on purpose. The poster was inviting me to have beef. You also know what he was trying to do. I did not bother, but other posters saw that he was trying to attack my faith.
No not disingenuous just confused and ignorant about your religion.

You say there are commies, they say you are extreme. Both are Hindus and Hindus are supposedly flexible and open minded unlike Abrahamic. You can worship nothing or rats or Donald Trump it's ok. They say they can eat cow you say it's blasphemy. But it's ok it's all flexible and Abrahamics are narrow minded pushing their beliefs on others.

For an outsider it's hard to keep up because the standards shift until some say they don't.

I mean the above respectfully not to mock or not to put you on trial and ask for verses ( this is mockery too in my opinion).

I am just explaining to someone unfamiliar it's all a bit chaotic.
 
I personally believe the right wing parties like BJP are the ones who fuel the anti Muslim hatred among Hindus just for their political mileage. Because no one can change whatever happened in past and thus no community especially Muslim minority in India should be punished for actions of those rulers who lived centuries before them.
 
I don’t think cows are sacred personally. I don’t hold grudges on anyone that eats it. It is their choice.

The concept of sacred cow is part of Indian traditions. A cow is sacred in Buddhism and Jainism too. Certainly all 3 beliefs influenced each other.
well you need to make up your mind. is it sacred or not sacred. you are saying some Hindu book claims eat the cow. now you are saying its sacred in buddhism and Jainism too, so you implied its sacred in Hinduism.

What countries in the world have a lot of Buddhists living there? are there laws prohibiting the killing of cows there? from what I can tell the Koreas for sure.. Nepal might be another.


they all seem to love their juicy steaks and Bulgogi
 
Says tons of Hindus who have no caste. They just identify of caste. Ever heard of Arya Samaj?

Its the Government that wants to know everyone's caste for various reasons.
I haven't heard of it. I didn't know about the current status manu smirti either until you mentioned it's not authoritative or followed.

I don't know anything about these topics so will defer to those who do. It's not my position to argue on your beliefs since I am a layman.

However I notice you seem happy to randomly copy paste Quran ayat or Hadith and act like you authoritatively know the meaning with very little study.

You should accept the same position that superficial understanding isn't enough to form an opinion.
 
I personally believe the right wing parties like BJP are the ones who fuel the anti Muslim hatred among Hindus just for their political mileage. Because no one can change whatever happened in past and thus no community especially Muslim minority in India should be punished for actions of those rulers who lived centuries before them.
I second that view. I think BJP has done this to weaponize religion and get votes like Congress did, they provided the anti thesis to it except they have made it truly difficult for muslims. They have also invented new ways to make it look like all the religions in the land are on one side and are one, the new definition of Santana Dharma and Muslims are the outsiders or exceptions. This even shows in their legislation they love to spread propaganda about.

I say propaganda because when it was time for them to use this act to help Bangladeshi Hindus, they did not do anything at all (shame on them)


At the end of the day Hindus are not even that religious and their religion has a very very loosely defined structure, its like silly putty you can shape it the way you want but unfortunately when it comes to antagonizing Muslims, it becomes very rigid all of a sudden. Who would have thought!
 
At the end of the day Hindus are not even that religious and their religion has a very very loosely defined structure, its like silly putty you can shape it the way you want but unfortunately when it comes to antagonizing Muslims, it becomes very rigid all of a sudden. Who would have thought!

On the whole, they are open-minded and that is a very good quality to have.
 
On the whole, they are open-minded and that is a very good quality to have.
I actually agree with it. It is a good quality to generally not force your religion on others or ask them to prove their belief/views.
 
I haven't heard of it. I didn't know about the current status manu smirti either until you mentioned it's not authoritative or followed.

I don't know anything about these topics so will defer to those who do. It's not my position to argue on your beliefs since I am a layman.

However I notice you seem happy to randomly copy paste Quran ayat or Hadith and act like you authoritatively know the meaning with very little study.

You should accept the same position that superficial understanding isn't enough to form an opinion.
Hinduism is an amalgamation of many cults. This is why it appears weird to outsiders. Vedas are considered to be the supreme authority. But less than 5% of Hindus read Vedas. Majority only heard about it. I myself was never taught Vedas. I had to go out of my way to research and gain some knowledge about it.

Quran is clear cut as it claims itself to be. There is enough online material from verifiable sources unlike Hinduism. There is no single website that hosts all the info with good translations.

There is Quran and Sahih Hadiths. To some extent the life story of Prophet PBUH seerat. Very limited compared to the vastness of Hindu scriptures. I read the translations of authentic sources like Quran.com, Sunnah.com and Sahih-Bukhari.com websites. I always post references whenever I counter something.
I understand Muslims get very defensive when it comes to Islam. But as a rationalist, I cannot stop myself from questioning whenever a claim is made and it looks outrageous to me.
 
On the whole, they are open-minded and that is a very good quality to have.
Hinduism can add Jesus to the pantheon if needed. We already have a big party in India. Just one more foreign dignitary will not hurt. I know Christians and Muslims reject the invite. The offer is still valid. 👍
 
Hinduism can add Jesus to the pantheon if needed. We already have a big party in India. Just one more foreign dignitary will not hurt. I know Christians and Muslims reject the invite. The offer is still valid. 👍

Funny you say that.. in the Bible, the New Testament starts with the story of how Jesus was born and then for the next chapter, it fast forwards to him at age 33 when he starts becoming famous. Nobody knows what happened in the intervening 30 years, no record of it exists. Some say he went to India and that is where he got all his wisdom and teachings from..
 
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Hinduism is an amalgamation of many cults. This is why it appears weird to outsiders. Vedas are considered to be the supreme authority. But less than 5% of Hindus read Vedas. Majority only heard about it. I myself was never taught Vedas. I had to go out of my way to research and gain some knowledge about it.

Quran is clear cut as it claims itself to be. There is enough online material from verifiable sources unlike Hinduism. There is no single website that hosts all the info with good translations.

There is Quran and Sahih Hadiths. To some extent the life story of Prophet PBUH seerat. Very limited compared to the vastness of Hindu scriptures. I read the translations of authentic sources like Quran.com, Sunnah.com and Sahih-Bukhari.com websites. I always post references whenever I counter something.
I understand Muslims get very defensive when it comes to Islam. But as a rationalist, I cannot stop myself from questioning whenever a claim is made and it looks outrageous to me.
I think ram, Krishna, etc were all some of the 124,000 messengers of God according to Muslim tradition and they were incorrectly turned into gods. They all brought forth message of Allah for their times. They weee Muslims. 👍
 
I don’t think cows are sacred personally. I don’t hold grudges on anyone that eats it. It is their choice.

The concept of sacred cow is part of Indian traditions. A cow is sacred in Buddhism and Jainism too. Certainly all 3 beliefs influenced each other.

If you don't believe a cow is sacred then you are no more a hindu than me or the CEO of McDonalds.
 
Funny you say that.. in the Bible, the New Testament starts with the story of how Jesus was born and then for the next chapter, it fast forwards to him at age 33 when he starts becoming famous. Nobody knows what happened in the intervening 30 years, no record of it exists. Some say he went to India and that is where he got all his wisdom and teachings from..
I don’t believe that story of Jesus coming to India and practicing tantric yoga with Buddhist and Shivite Sadhus and Monks. There is zero evidence that Jesus ever came to India.
 
If you don't believe a cow is sacred then you are no more a hindu than me or the CEO of McDonalds.
I consider my self a Carvaka. If you have interest, read about it. I came in contact with it a couple of decades ago. Early 2000’s.

I do consider myself a cultural Hindu. I participate in all festivals and Pujas at home. I appreciate the culture and food.
 
I think ram, Krishna, etc were all some of the 124,000 messengers of God according to Muslim tradition and they were incorrectly turned into gods. They all brought forth message of Allah for their times. They weee Muslims. 👍
Ram, Krishna are not messengers of any God. They were very influential and popular men of that time. This is why their names pop up in all Indic religions.
Hindus consider them to be special men and the reincarnation of God Vishnu himself. Hence they are worshipped as Gods.
IIRC, Buddhism calls lord Rama as Pratyeka Budha or a unique manifestation of Buddha.
Jainism calls Rama and Krishna as Shalaka Purushas or Worthy Humans. In Jainism, both Rama and Krishna are Jains.

As for Islam, Ram and Krishna never taught about oneness of God or visiting Arabia for a pilgrimage. Calling them Prophets is a bit too much and extremely hard to believe.
 
Let it go @Champ_Pal bro...you ain't gonna convince people who got their heads buried in sand.

The real question OP should be asking is - 'Why is only anti-muslim bias profound in the world and not for any other religion?'

I have asked OP to open a thread on this topic multiple times but he always side tracks it. Probably a topic too inconvenient to discuss.

It is always easy to blame others rather than self introspection.
 
As I am typing all these responses in PP, my 8 yr old comes and asks me who is better Jesus or Zeus.

I told him, no one prays to Zeus anymore. So may be it is Jesus.

My son took pity on Zeus and said, I will pray to him and folded his hands in prayer 😂😂
 
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Let it go @Champ_Pal bro...you ain't gonna convince people who got their heads buried in sand.

The real question OP should be asking is - 'Why is only anti-muslim bias profound in the world and not for any other religion?'

I have asked OP to open a thread on this topic multiple times but he always side tracks it. Probably a topic too inconvenient to discuss.

It is always easy to blame others rather than self introspection.


The anti Muslim bias is found only in India and israel. I have never personally seen any anti Muslim bias anywhere else so much. We are equal citizens and enjoy all the freedoms everywhere else except the communist countries where liberties are threatened no matter what.

Israel is an outright apartheid state and India is on its way to becoming one. Your human rights record is as abysmal as Israel, Russia, china, Pakistan, etc. all non democratic and oppressive states.
 
As I am typing all these responses in PP, my 8 yr old comes and asks me who is better Jesus or Zeus.
I told him, no one prays to Zeus anymore. So may be it is Jesus.
My son took pity on Zeus and said, I will pray to him and folded his hands in prayer 😂😂
Don’t forget to ask him for proof of Zeus being a god. Also don’t forget Zeus might be a red meat eater himself.
 
The anti Muslim bias is found only in India and israel. I have never personally seen any anti Muslim bias anywhere else so much. We are equal citizens and enjoy all the freedoms everywhere else except the communist countries where liberties are threatened no matter what.

Israel is an outright apartheid state and India is on its way to becoming one. Your human rights record is as abysmal as Israel, Russia, china, Pakistan, etc. all non democratic and oppressive states.

That is factually not true.

Why do you think British Parliament had an Islamophobia day educating people led by MP Rupa Haq? Britain is not apartheid state like Israel and would be apartheid state like India right?

That is why I have requested OP @The Bald Eagle multiple times to open a thread on this topic so that we can discuss it properly.

Chalo bhai everyone is bad - Israel (Jews), India (Hindus), UK (Christians), America (Christians) ...everyone. But why they are bad only towards one religion? Why no Hinduphobia, Sikhophobia, Jainophobia, Buddhophobia etc.

Kuch to baat hai na sir...lets discuss that first. Correct na?
 
That is factually not true.

Why do you think British Parliament had an Islamophobia day educating people led by MP Rupa Haq? Britain is not apartheid state like Israel and would be apartheid state like India right?

That is why I have requested OP @The Bald Eagle multiple times to open a thread on this topic so that we can discuss it properly.

Chalo bhai everyone is bad - Israel (Jews), India (Hindus), UK (Christians), America (Christians) ...everyone. But why they are bad only towards one religion? Why no Hinduphobia, Sikhophobia, Jainophobia, Buddhophobia etc.

Kuch to baat hai na sir...lets discuss that first. Correct na?

Islamophobia is there, anti semitism is there, racism is there, these are all there in one form or another in the world. They bring out the worst impulses of men. I have seen Hindus or Indians being labeled “curry munchers” verbally and physically abused by whites because of the way they might smell or look. That happens too quite frequently.

Koi bat to hai na phir uss mein bhi?

There is always some excuse. But most often it is unjustifiable
 
Islamophobia is there, anti semitism is there, racism is there, these are all there in one form or another in the world. They bring out the worst impulses of men. I have seen Hindus or Indians being labeled “curry munchers” verbally and physically abused by whites because of the way they might smell or look. That happens too quite frequently.

Koi bat to hai na phir uss mein bhi?

There is always some excuse. But most often it is unjustifiable
Hindus are called Curry munchers in how many countries sir? It is not for Hindus only BTW but a term associated with South Asians in UK. Normally South Asian people who eats a lots of curry made of garlic and smells are called that. That is nothing to do with religion or hindus...nice try sir. Karahi Chicken is a Pakistani dish right sir? :uakmal


Anti Semitism in how many countries sir? 99.99% of Indians or non western world has not even heard about that term.

Lets be honest, you take the globe in hand and rotate in any direction and you will see a conflict ion the direction you move that globe associated with muslims only.

Why is that is what we need to address but OP never opens a thread on that topic.
 
Hindus are called Curry munchers in how many countries sir? It is not for Hindus only BTW but a term associated with South Asians in UK. Normally South Asian people who eats a lots of curry made of garlic and smells are called that. That is nothing to do with religion or hindus...nice try sir. Karahi Chicken is a Pakistani dish right sir? :uakmal


Anti Semitism in how many countries sir? 99.99% of Indians or non western world has not even heard about that term.

Lets be honest, you take the globe in hand and rotate in any direction and you will see a conflict ion the direction you move that globe associated with muslims only.

Why is that is what we need to address but OP never opens a thread on that topic.
Well if you live with something at home, obviously it seems ubiquitous. Everything foreign no matter how prevalent seems to easily fly under the radar… sir!
 
That is factually not true.

Why do you think British Parliament had an Islamophobia day educating people led by MP Rupa Haq? Britain is not apartheid state like Israel and would be apartheid state like India right?

That is why I have requested OP @The Bald Eagle multiple times to open a thread on this topic so that we can discuss it properly.

Chalo bhai everyone is bad - Israel (Jews), India (Hindus), UK (Christians), America (Christians) ...everyone. But why they are bad only towards one religion? Why no Hinduphobia, Sikhophobia, Jainophobia, Buddhophobia etc.

Kuch to baat hai na sir...lets discuss that first. Correct na?

A certain group in Israel is Islamophobic, because, of course, that's how you get a scenario where Polish refugees fleeing Nazis somehow end up kicking Palestinians out of their homes. The irony could not be more palpable if it tried.

As for the UK, the EDL is an inherently racist bunch, no surprise there. Plenty of people, however, have openly stood against your favorite bigot, Mr. Tommy Robinson. He’s not exactly winning hearts and minds across the board.

Now, American Christians. If you’re talking about the inbred, evangelical types from Alabama, the kind who watch Fox News like it’s the Gospel, then yes, they’re terrified of Muslims. But if you hang out with the non-bigoted, the majority in America, you’ll find they have no such issues. It’s all about where you’re looking.

Even in India, I’d like to think only the Hindutva extremists are inherently Islamophobic, but hey, it’s India, so who really knows what’s going on over there?

Using bigots to make your point is, to put it mildly, bizarre. But it seems to be a common trait among bigots everywhere, whether it’s a Hindutva extremist, a Tommy Robinson supporter, or an Alabama Christian with an unsettling fondness for his sister.
 
Don’t forget to ask him for proof of Zeus being a god. Also don’t forget Zeus might be a red meat eater himself.
Thank you. He is too young to understand complex questions like evidence for God. If he asks the same when he is a teen, I will give him my Gyan.

He felt bad that no one prays to Zeus anymore. Lord Zeus earned himself a little follower.
 
I genuinely can't wrap my head around why Hindutva supporters move to multicultural countries when they can't stand other cultures and religions. It's time to assimilate and embrace diversity. If that's too much to handle, maybe it's best they stay back in India.
 
You are forgetting to add the Pakistani request: "Either we stop asking each other to prove our claims while discussing religion (put up or shut up) or we try and stay consistent with our beliefs and not behave as hypcritical"
I agree. When my daughter used to claim (she's grown out of it now) that the tooth fairy would pay for her tooth, I didn't use to make fun of her and ask her to prove which line of her fairy tale books made this specific claim. I used to quietly sneak in at night, take the tooth and leave 10 rupees.

Why can't religious folks offer each other the same respect? If the other side seems to believe that the cow is sacred or it's wrong to insult the prophet, why not refrain from insulting the prophet and eating one of the many meat choices available?

Why this need to have the other person find some proof of their faith? It's a minor matter.

Of course if it the religious folks demand too much of a sacrifice, like say religious impositions on women in Iran, fight back or leave quietly.
 
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I agree. When my daughter used to claim (she's grown out of it now) that the tooth fairy would pay for her tooth, I didn't use to make fun of her and ask her to prove which line of her fairy tale books made this specific claim. I used to quietly sneak in at night, take the tooth and leave 10 rupees.
Why can't religious folks offer each other the same respect?

This is a subtle dig at religious people when you compare them to a having the undeveloped mind of an innocent toddler. :sneaky:
 
Why can't religious folks offer each other the same respect? If the other side seems to believe that the cow is sacred or it's wrong to insult the prophet, why not refrain from insulting the prophet and eating one of the many meat choices available?

Nothing wrong with religious people having their beliefs as long as they keep it private or if they restrict it to their homeland, but when you take these beliefs to the land that you immigrate to .. that becomes a problem for the host nation. You are restricting their freedom.

For example, do you think Western countries should start banning cow slaughter now that they are starting to develop a sizable hindu population ?
 
Nothing wrong with religious people having their beliefs as long as they keep it private or if they restrict it to their homeland, but when you take these beliefs to the land that you immigrate to .. that becomes a problem for the host nation. You are restricting their freedom.

For example, do you think Western countries should start banning cow slaughter now that they are starting to develop a sizable hindu population ?
LOL, Don't stretch your imagination that far. First get cow slaughter ban implemented in India itself before thinking of anywhere else.
 
This thread is not about COW SLAUGHTER BAN STUFF.

No more irrelevant talk now.
 
I am not attacking your faith, you are attacking my essential diet. I can't survive without beef.
You are in USA. How am I attacking your diet? Even if I want I can't stop you.

But you come here and mock my faith, when I have done nothing to you.

Why this hatred for my faith?
 
You are in USA. How am I attacking your diet? Even if I want I can't stop you.

But you come here and mock my faith, when I have done nothing to you.

Why this hatred for my faith?

I'm in Singapore atm, not USA.

I am an Indian citizen and I want my beef when I come to India 🥩

Your political party has been attempting to implement a national ban on my essential diet.
 
This is a subtle dig at religious people when you compare them to a having the undeveloped mind of an innocent toddler. :sneaky:
Well yes but in this context, acknowledging also that this is a matter of faith not of specific wordings in books.

As an atheist, I could say it won't be proof that a specific instruction is holy however old they are unless your god has written it across the sky in indelible, physics defying golden letters. I won't believe any of your books written on paper.

I don't and I respect your beliefs and the fact that you hold them as long as you don't use those beliefs to hurt me or severely restrict my freedoms.
 
I just went to the twitter page of this person Emilia who claims to be a Nordic Girl. It is full of propaganda and antisemitic trope.

We need more info on it from a verifiable source.
 
Where is this? Is it in West Bengal?

This is pathetic and the aggressors must be arrested and put away in prison.
Talk like @sweep_shot . That this is isolated incident, and fake news (although in this case the murder part is really fake news), and that they would have assaulted any one of any religion, so it is secular assault.

They will deny, downplay and gaslight any violence on hindus, and expect you to be answerable and ashamed for violence on muslims.

Be like them.
 
That is an astonishing video, to think that young people can be so feral and savage and that too against an old man. Sad state of affairs. Hindutva.
I can present videos of assault for the religion of your choice. Will you generalize them by the same standards?
 
I said hindutva, not hinduism.
That is still a generalization.

Why will you give religions a free pass, when they have violence in their scriptures and their people can be violent.

Why not use the same standard to judge religions?
 
Why will you give religions a free pass, when they have violence in their scriptures and their people can be violent.

Why not use the same standard to judge religions?

Which religion am I giving a free pass to and for which incident ? No idea what you're on about.
 
Which religion am I giving a free pass to and for which incident ? No idea what you're on about.
All major religions. They have some violent verses and their followers have committed violence. So why giving them a free pass. If you generalize for Hindutva, why not hinduism, islam and christianity?
 
I agree. When my daughter used to claim (she's grown out of it now) that the tooth fairy would pay for her tooth, I didn't use to make fun of her and ask her to prove which line of her fairy tale books made this specific claim. I used to quietly sneak in at night, take the tooth and leave 10 rupees.

Why can't religious folks offer each other the same respect? If the other side seems to believe that the cow is sacred or it's wrong to insult the prophet, why not refrain from insulting the prophet and eating one of the many meat choices available?

Why this need to have the other person find some proof of their faith? It's a minor matter.

Of course if it the religious folks demand too much of a sacrifice, like say religious impositions on women in Iran, fight back or leave quietly.
hahaha, so now you think I should change my dietary habits because cow is sacred for some?

You cannot equate insulting someone with eating something that is considered normal in the other 99% of the countries world wide.
 
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