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Some report by human rights commission of India or likewise reputed organizationWhat will you accept as authentic and unbiased ?
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Some report by human rights commission of India or likewise reputed organizationWhat will you accept as authentic and unbiased ?
Some report by human rights commission of India or likewise reputed organization
They won't be biased or party to the conflict and would publish reports based on independent findingsYou think HR commissions have experts to conduct an independent autopsy ?
They won't be biased or party to the conflict and would publish reports based on independent findings
Isn't below link an Indian outlet reporting situation in Pakistan based on HRC Pakistan report?Can you tell me which country follows this process of appointing independent non-government bodies with no jurisdiction to investigate law and order issues and to conduct independent autopsies ( they dont even have such experts )?
Isn't below link an Indian outlet reporting situation in Pakistan based on HRC Pakistan report?
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Also one doesn't need to be an expert to see the video evidence which the media have but JUST OF PELTING.
I think we are dragging it too much, just present the visual evidence I and all would accept it without hesitation. On autopsy stuff, you should know it that police can or would manipulate it to resonate with their story as they are the primary culprits behind these killings.they don't conduct or oversee any active investigation. Their involvement is always post-fact and their findings are not binding as they have no legal jurisdiction.
So you want an HR Activist to conduct a parallel autopsy or be present as an observer during the official autopsy ? IF you believe that should how it must be done ... show me some examples where this happens. Which country follows that process ?
I think we are dragging it too much, just present the visual evidence I and all would accept it without hesitation. On autopsy stuff, you should know it that police can or would manipulate it to resonate with their story as they are the primary culprits behind these killings.
Certainly everybody knows which media outlets are biased and which are not. Even I can tell that about Indian outlets just by reading their names. Eg Republic TV biased, NDTV a bit neutral, The wire ( among credible ones)Thats why I asked you which authority do you trust in this matter ? You have clearly ruled out the Media, Police and Judiciary. So therefore whose words do you trust ?
BTW This is from the HRCP Website on how they work: https://hrcp-web.org/hrcpweb/our-work/
See point # 1:
- Collecting, digitising and categorising data on human rights issues reported in the press (with archives dating back to 1996).
So therefore they are also susceptible to sold-out/biased media ? If so why are you trusting them ?
do you see the problem ?
Certainly everybody knows which media outlets are biased and which are not. Even I can tell that about Indian outlets just by reading their names. Eg Republic TV biased, NDTV a bit neutral, The wire ( among credible ones)
But below is the finding and opinion of their investigative journalistThe link I gave you was from Times of India but here is the link from The Wire ( which is a well known anti-BJP media outlet )
Sambhal Violence: Police Deny Charges of Shooting Four Muslims Dead; 25 Muslims Arrested, SP MP Booked
Seven FIRs have been lodged in connection with various crimes committed during the incident. Around 2,500 persons, almost all of them unidentified, were named in these FIRs.thewire.in
here is the tidbit about the autopsy report from that article:
"Moradabad divisional commissioner Aunjaneya Kumar Singh, however, said that the post-mortem reports of the four Muslims who were killed showed they were hit by bullets fired from country-made weapons. “We will further probe this,” said Singh, who had on Sunday tried to suggest that they were killed in cross-firing between the members of the mob which attacked the police with stones from three sides and even fired bullets at them."
As I said earlier, this is a statement of the same police accused of this violence reported by many indian outlets including the wire
But below is the finding and opinion of their investigative journalist
Sambhal and the Pattern of Official Narratives Without Truth
The former CJI D.Y. Chandrachud once said Hindus have every right to satisfy their curiosity about the nature of a structure. After he showed them the way, Hindu representatives have started developing curiosity across India. Muslims can resist only at the cost of their lives.m.thewire.in
Any thoughts? @uppercut. Isn't this ironical that all media have ample video evidence of Muslims stone pelting but no evidence of them firing with these 'counyry guns'
Lol...the answer lies in your own post. Literally a sentence ahead of what you highlighted in your post.There is no mention about autopsy report in that article but here is the important Part from that artice
"But two days after that, without any prior information, the team reached the temple again. The administration accompanied the mob and allowed it to reach the mosque. Some people accompanying the survey team allegedly let out ‘Jai Shri Ram’ chants on their way out. It agitated the local Muslims. Stones were thrown. The police were captured on video, appearing to fire directly at the agitating crowd. Four men were killed."
So why throw stones at police? Is this how civilized people operate?
And where is the video of police firing on the stone pelters?
Lol...the answer lies in your own post. Literally a sentence ahead of what you highlighted in your post.
It's not as a big crime that deserves a live bullet to claim that person life. Or do you think so. Even football fans sometimes hit players with pighead so how should they be treated?good .. so throwing stones at anyone Chanting Jai Shri Ram is fine according to You ?
Lol...the answer lies in your own post. Literally a sentence ahead of what you highlighted in your post.
It's not as a big crime that deserves a live bullet to claim that person life.
Or do you think so. Even football fans sometimes hit players with pighead so how should they be treated?
Indians right wingers these have been laying claim on every other mosque so how should Muslims react by offering them all with beaming smile on faces. Ofcourse they would protest. When you are the 7th largest country, you don't fight for petty places just to build temples when you already have enough spaces.Well The question of live bullets can only be settled from the autopsy report. So show me a media report that validates your claim.
But the stone throwing is important in the context of determining when the escalation happened and which party was responsible for the escalation since you are blaming everyone other than Muslims for the loss of lives.
So why did Muslims resort to violence ?
Bro, this isn’t a debate. The person you’re engaging with is simply looking for any excuse to justify the killing of Muslims.
You’re wasting your time, they’ve revealed their true stance multiple times.
Conversely you expect Hindus to just pretend that their Holy places were NOT DESTROYED ?Indians right wingers these have been laying claim on every other mosque so how should Muslims react by offering them all with beaming smile on faces. Ofcourse they would protest. When you are the 7th largest country, you don't fight for petty places just to build temples when you already have enough spaces.
Why these fights not occur in Spain, Or Eastern Europe with such intensity although they remained under Muslim rule too?
Also yet to see any VISUAL Evidence of Muslims shooting, please reproduce that I won't disturb you again. About purported autopsy report, even if we accept it to be true how does it make Muslims the culprits?
Any visual or video related to this event in which it could be clearly seen that Muslims were firing from "country made" guns at police first. Also if CCTVs were already destroyed as you claimed above then from where the pelting video came from??? Does Cameras went dysfunctional before they pick up pistols or other ammunitions?Which source will you accept ?
Yeah such a innocent community that ONLY RESORTS to throwing bricks at police and using country made pistols ... breaking cctv cameras Etc. Sounds like very peace loving people. How dare the EVIL police use force. Forget this .. you guys didnt see much wrong in what Hamas did on Oct 7th.
Quite remarkable how the muslim victim mentality works ! The ENTIRE FRIGGIN WORLD IS ROGUE AND EVIL ( EXCEPT FOR MUSLIMS ) . Such a disgrace for humanity.
Any visual or video related to this event in which it could be clearly seen that Muslims were firing from "country made" guns at police first. Also if CCTVs were already destroyed as you claim above then from where the pelting video came??? Does Cameras went dysfunctional before they pick up pistols or other ammunitions?
Any visual or video related to this event in which it could be clearly seen that Muslims were firing from "country made" guns at police first. Also if CCTVs were already destroyed as you claimed above then from where the pelting video came from??? Does Cameras went dysfunctional before they pick up pistols or other ammunitions?
very peaceful people.The police have recovered the DVR recordings prior to the cameras being destroyed. There is still significant evidence that is being processed by the police. It will take time for all facts to emerge. But so far from what evidence has been disclosed we can clearly see that muslims resorted to violence because someone shouted Jai Shri Ram.
I have linked the video with timestamp where they show the image captured from CCTV recordings below
and what evidence do you have that the people were killed in police shooting ? Simple common sense says that if police had opened fire the casualty figures would be a lot higher due to the sheer numbers. Many media reports are saying that the autopsy reports indicate that the victims were shot using country pistols. Do you dispute that
very peaceful people.
Most of these riots are organized and these rioters are paid by Samajwadi party MLA’s.
They pelt stones, shoot at innocents in between some innocent Muslims.
All of these riots are orchestrated. No one can mobilize hundreds of people in a matter of minutes. All pre planned.
Any visual or video related to this event in which it could be clearly seen that Muslims were firing from "country made" guns at police first. Also if CCTVs were already destroyed as you claimed above then from where the pelting video came from??? Does Cameras went dysfunctional before they pick up pistols or other ammunitions?
Indians right wingers these have been laying claim on every other mosque so how should Muslims react by offering them all with beaming smile on faces. Ofcourse they would protest. When you are the 7th largest country, you don't fight for petty places just to build temples when you already have enough spaces.
Why these fights not occur in Spain, Or Eastern Europe with such intensity although they remained under Muslim rule too?
Also yet to see any VISUAL Evidence of Muslims shooting, please reproduce that I won't disturb you again. About purported autopsy report, even if we accept it to be true how does it make Muslims the culprits?
One more from a different media it has footage of Cops injured, captured arms from culprits etc :
I just made a little search and came across this one of the viral clip in India which you guys it appear deliberately not mentioned. In this a police man could be clearing seen FIRING STRAIGHT BULLETs and asking other to do the same.FYI Greece converted every mosque that was once a church back to a church.
Spain literally wiped out their Islamic history and threw out Muslims from Spain.
Just like Muslims had a claim to a separate country, Hindus have a claim to their temples. Muslims got two countries, Hindus will take their temples.
Muslims attacked the police force with stones. Police defended themselves. The mob even fired bullets from country made pistols. Hitting some of their own.
So tragic incident but posters here could write essay about this meat "HURTING" Hindus feelings rather than condemning the loss of precious humans on basis of just suspicion. Even if it's cow meat then what's the big deal, does Cow meat is banned in whole of India?. Or does this act only tramples their "FEELINGS" in India but not elsewhere in the world.
What a vile group of people! A curse to humanity
What a vile group of people! A curse to humanity
I just made a little search and came across this one of the viral clip in India which you guys it appear deliberately not mentioned. In this a police man could be clearing seen FIRING STRAIGHT BULLETs and asking other to do the same.
How would you guys explain this? @uppercut in previous post of your a blurred image of a protester purportedly holding gun could be seen. So for argument sake I accept that that man had gun but about the police guy in this VIDEO not blurred image firing straight fires instead of aerial shots? Was these policemen there to disperse masses or to KILL them?
Are you serious, just wait I shall fetch you the proof. Lol this clip has been made by some indianWhat's the authenticity of this clip?
What's the authenticity of this clip?
Don't talk about other countriesFYI Greece converted every mosque that was once a church back to a church.
Spain literally wiped out their Islamic history and threw out Muslims from Spain.
Just like Muslims had a claim to a separate country, Hindus have a claim to their temples. Muslims got two countries, Hindus will take their temples.
Muslims attacked the police force with stones. Police defended themselves. The mob even fired bullets from country made pistols. Hitting some of their own.
Don't talk about other countries
Lol ... Any more excuse now?
Watch it from 58 seconds to 1:24 seconds. Which video is he referring too? Ofcourse the one which I shared as you can watch that too.Did you even watch the video?
Watch it from 58 seconds to 1:24 seconds. Which video is he referring too? Ofcourse the one which I shared as you can watch that too.
I trust the objective evidences, so I trust the VIDEO evidence that I shared in post 2411So just to be clear ... you are now suddenly trusting the Indian Law enforcement authorities ?
Before I respond please Confirm and answer that question with a simple and clear Yes/No.
Lol because India has a bad habit of poking nose everywhere.There are so many Indian threads on first page of TP of Pakpassion don’t know which one to respond to?
Looks like only India has issue and the Babylon on the borders must be heaven.
India or Indians? Because GOI since 1991 actually has done well on every front, I understand you guys will say South Asian region but India has resolved issue with Maldives, China, Lanka, Maldives.Lol because India has a bad habit of poking nose everywhere.
You forgot about Canada mate.India or Indians? Because GOI since 1991 actually has done well on every front, I understand you guys will say South Asian region but India has resolved issue with Maldives, China, Lanka, Maldives.
Nepal and Bhutan have open borders with us.
This is the best relationship we have had with Gulf since 50s and Europe too.
Our issue only remains East and West Pakistan and both those countries have issues with their neighbours literally with violence.
True but pre Modi eraKeyboard Indian warriors are annoying I agree but GOI has actually been so much saner thank God.
Google Canada foreign relations and you will have your answer;You forgot about Canada mate.
Not really, since 2014 Indians have had better relationships more easier visa conditions to countries etc etc.True but pre Modi era
I trust the objective evidences, so I trust the VIDEO evidence that I shared in post 2411
There are so many Indian threads on first page of TP of Pakpassion don’t know which one to respond to?
Looks like only India has issue and the Babylon on the borders must be heaven.
Ok sir peaceful Captain , once your Establishment starts being peaceful to your own people then we can talk about peace between the two nations.You are feigning ignorance of the dynamics of India Pakistan relations. You praise your own govt as if they are innocent and only east and west neighbours are the problem, but the Indian govt attempts to damage Pakistan through any sphere possible is revealed with their sports policy. Indian govt clearly has spelled out Pakistan is an eternal enemy. Even support for Bangladesh was based on splitting Pakistan asunder, once that happened, only useful as long as they followed India's national interests.
If you don't want hostility, then lead the way with some attempts to lead peaceful return to normalcy. Even Zia ul Haq managed to do that when he professed sport could be the glue that brought nations together.
You are feigning ignorance of the dynamics of India Pakistan relations. You praise your own govt as if they are innocent and only east and west neighbours are the problem, but the Indian govt attempts to damage Pakistan through any sphere possible is revealed with their sports policy. Indian govt clearly has spelled out Pakistan is an eternal enemy. Even support for Bangladesh was based on splitting Pakistan asunder, once that happened, only useful as long as they followed India's national interests.
If you don't want hostility, then lead the way with some attempts to lead peaceful return to normalcy. Even Zia ul Haq managed to do that when he professed sport could be the glue that brought nations together.
Lol because India has a bad habit of poking nose everywhere.
You are feigning ignorance of the dynamics of India Pakistan relations. You praise your own govt as if they are innocent and only east and west neighbours are the problem, but the Indian govt attempts to damage Pakistan through any sphere possible is revealed with their sports policy. Indian govt clearly has spelled out Pakistan is an eternal enemy. Even support for Bangladesh was based on splitting Pakistan asunder, once that happened, only useful as long as they followed India's national interests.
If you don't want hostility, then lead the way with some attempts to lead peaceful return to normalcy. Even Zia ul Haq managed to do that when he professed sport could be the glue that brought nations together.
When someone has issues with you, then may be one or the other or both are guilty of something.
When everyone have problems with you, may be do self revaluation and retrospection than getting in to victim mentality of "why they hate us?"
yeah I suppose the 4 open wars initiated by Pakistan + countless acts of terror, providing open safe haven for numerous vermins such as Dawood, Masood, Hafeez etc etc etc were just mere acts of a innocent harmless Dove and are insignificant events that do not merit such a hostile posture I suppose ?
You are the same guy who refused to condemn Indian cow vigilante mobs. You seem to support mob justice which is a shocking thing to support in 21st century.
The appropiate question should be -Ohh yeah ? is that why you are running away from answering a very simple question on that topic ?
Here it is again for like the 10th time or so:
"Why are Muslims still harming cows in India despite being well aware that a cow is very sacred to Hindus" ?
I suppose now is the right time for you to run or pretend that you have answered that question ?
The appropiate question should be -
"Why are Muslims still harming cows in India despite being well aware that it's illegal?"
I understand they have nothing to do with the emotions of Hindus which they don't care but being citizens of India, they are supposed to abide by the law.
When someone has issues with you, then may be one or the other or both are guilty of something.
When everyone have problems with you, may be do self revaluation and retrospection than getting in to victim mentality of "why they hate us?"
Canada, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Nepal also part of India, right?Where? Sambhal is in which country? Delhi? Gujarat? Ayodhya? In which country?
India has closed the door to any negotiations with pakistan.
Pakistan should go on its own way. No one is stopping them.
Canada, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Nepal also part of India, right?
Lol you were slyly skipped Canada and other points you made are just one side of the coin. Again you guys just highlight those facts that fit your narrative. And also I haven't mentioned China yet, the next superpower contender.Afghans are praising India for their humanitarian work.
Lankan government thanked India for billions in aid during their bankruptcy.
Maldives just received millions in aid from India after their president came to India and asked for help.
Nepal? They have a open border with India. Except the communists there, all other political parties are pro India. The madhesis who make up 40 per cent of Nepalese population are extremely pro India.
Has India intervened in BD? BD is very dependent on India for imports. If Modi government seals the border, BD economy will go for a toss.
NO, I don't trust them but just objective evidencesBut its coming from a Indian gov official. So do you trust that official? Simple yes/no pls.
Agenda sellsYou are diluting your own argument by referring to the UN or any other outside organisation. As @Technics 1210 has rightfully pointed out, Modi was banned from those same western nations because they believed there was enough independent evidence he was complicit in mass slaughter of minorities in Gujarat 2001.
Your earlier posts where you refer to Muslims as a whole as terrorists and a massive problem for Hindus in India is more honest and that doesn't implicate Modi's own bloodthirsty legacy. Stick to that.
Lol you were slyly skipped Canada and other points you made are just one side of the coin. Again you guys just highlight those facts that fit your narrative. And also I haven't mentioned China yet, the next superpower contender.
GrandiloquentWhen someone has issues with you, then may be one or the other or both are guilty of something.
When everyone have problems with you, may be do self revaluation and retrospection than getting in to victim mentality of "why they hate us?"
NO, I don't trust them but just objective evidences
I don't see how your post had anything to do with what I wrote.Grandiloquent
Hindutva embraced it as though it was a profound statement, but as we know, Hindutva tends to accept anything that shifts focus away from portraying them as a violent group with animosity toward Muslims.
Creating a show with meaningless words, lol.
Objective evidences often are represented by subjective interpretation.NO, I don't trust them but just objective evidences
You need to revisit the understanding of “objective”.Objective evidences often are represented by subjective interpretation.
Exactly that's the point. Objectivity can be interpreted in different manner as a result of which you HAD to ask me to revisit to coincide with that of yours.You need to revisit the understanding of “objective”.
Yes, I remember how you did this with same stats that I shared in this thread some months ago.Objective evidences often are represented by subjective interpretation.
There is nothing called objective reality. We all biased one way or the otherYes, I remember how you did this with same stats that I shared in this thread some months ago.