Waqar Younis vs Sachin Tendulkar debut battle

[fusebulb]

waqar and tendulkar two of the greatest to come out of sub continent, you can also judge a players greatness by the mindset of opposition when they have the ball or the bat in hand at their peak, i remember in early or mid 90's when waqar used to bowl against us (India) i used to have a sick feeling that he is going to destroy us....

Same with tendulkar in his early attacking days when he was promoted to open, i wonder what the opposition might be going thru, his first innings as an opener against New zealand i still vividly remember, he destroyed them scoring 88 or something in half the balls, it was very rare to score so fast at that time and after that he was feared all around the world....

So were Richards, Lara, Akram, Ponting to name a few, when they are in their pomp the opposition runs for cover.... that is a true sign of greatness....

 

[zid60]

I too think Tendulkar's career is exaggerated. Kudos to him for keeping fit for so long, but if Wasim (who eoin morgan said recently was his most difficult opponents in the nets) or other batters like Anwer - who consistenley demolished opponents - stuck out for longer, then tendulkar would have just been another player. A good one but not like others.

 

[KIC]

wonder what prevented them from doing so

 

[Cricket_MN]

The only other match which saw two future greats make a debut together was the 1996 Lord's test with Ganguly and Dravid starting their careers.

Can't quite recollect any other instances of a similar thing happening in the same test.

Both Ganguly and Dravid were very good batsmen but no where close to Tendulkar.

 

[cricketloverindia]

I too think Tendulkar's career is exaggerated. Kudos to him for keeping fit for so long, but if Wasim (who eoin morgan said recently was his most difficult opponents in the nets) or other batters like Anwer - who consistenley demolished opponents - stuck out for longer, then tendulkar would have just been another player. A good one but not like others.

If I had concentrated on cricket I dont think Bradman's average of 99.94 would have stood for long

 

[madhurjyaadhikary]

I too think Tendulkar's career is exaggerated. Kudos to him for keeping fit for so long, but if Wasim (who eoin morgan said recently was his most difficult opponents in the nets) or other batters like Anwer - who consistenley demolished opponents - stuck out for longer, then tendulkar would have just been another player. A good one but not like others.

Going by the same logic, if others like Javagal Srinath stuck out for longer, then Waqar would have been just another bowler.

Tendulkar was averaging 58 in Test matches by the time Anwar retired. What prevented Anwar from averaging 58, instead of mere 45?

 

[mastermind_quad]

Enuff with the whole bringing Bradman theory when talking SRT, you dont need to justify SRT his record over the last 2 decades speaks for itself... Only reason why Lara got a sniff of a chance to get ahead of SRT was when he was down with the tennis elbow and how convenient Glen Mcgrath and Co came to tour right on time to get an out of form, injured SRT......SRT at his peak UNINJURED wouldve smoked every bowler barring Donald who I thought troubled him the most...

yep ..don't know what's the need to defend SRT ..his achievement for last 2 decade speaks for himself ....and those who nullify his achievements will never accept what he is ...btw that doesn't even matter ....he is a genius batsman and will remain genius whether some accept it or not ...

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

yep ..don't know what's the need to defend SRT ..his achievement for last 2 decade speaks for himself ....and those who nullify his achievements will never accept what he is ...btw that doesn't even matter ....he is a genius batsman and will remain genius whether some accept it or not ...

I agree....

I dont know why everyone is being so defensive about Tendu....

He's brilliant... it just so happens that there were other batsman that peaked higher than he did...

No one can match his longegevity.

How many double centuries does Tendu have?

 

[Savak]

What speeds do you guys think Waqar was reaching in this spell to Teenda?

 

[Lara400]

It all depends on what attributes you cherish...

brilliance over a short period of time or longevety....

Tendulkar has never been GREAT over any particular short length of time... his strength has been that he has been consitent from the age of 16 to 38 now..... that is GREAT but in a different context...

for example when he and Lara batted together... Lara was greater... when he and Ponting batted together... Ponting was better..... when he and Dravid batted together Dravid was better...

Waqar on the other hand.... when he was bowling in early 90s.... no one came close.... no one has ever come close to that quality since... (maybe Malcolm Marshall)

The only reason that Tendu gets more plaudits from the layman is cos of the stats that are considered mainstream...

ie longevity type stats....

BUT in REALITY...

Whilst longevity is great... I value the quality you had at your PEAK to be a million times more VALUABLE....

yes there is a question mark over length of period do you use to measure PEAK... but I think we are all sensible enough to choose an apprpriate length of time...

Other reason why Waqar doesn't get right amount of credit is cos at the time when he reverse swung it was considered cheating... now its considered an art from.

look at the praise Umar gul and Malinga get now... Waqar was a MILION times better than them.....

Sachins greatness = longevity. he ahs sustained being excellent over a period that no one else has come close to.

Waqars greatness =when he was at his best, no one was as good... or has been before or since....

Sachin is like... frankie fredericks or Roger Black.... the guy that was second best.... but was second best for a long time.....

Waqar is like Usain Bolt.... the greatest at his peak...

Its no wonder... Usain Bolts childhood hero was Waqar

Brilliant post, loved the simplification.

 

[truthseeker1]

Waqar's action is so smooth and beautiful in this video.

 

[fusebulb]

i am tired and irritated at these childish comparisons of these great players, IMO it is hijacking the wonderful thread started by the OP.

stop it u guys, anyways the more u try to bring down the greats by getting some stupid stat from somewhere which is irrelevant in the broad picture, the greater he becomes... because u only envy the greatest and not the ordinary....

 

[ShehryarK]

i am tired and irritated at these childish comparisons of these great players, IMO it is hijacking the wonderful thread started by the OP.

Agreed.

Sachin-Fetishists: Please keep your sad fixation for the various other Sachin-Fetish threads, every thread doesn't have to be derailed by the same puerile fan-boy rubbish.

Sachin-Haters: Prejudice and blind hatred isn't good for the soul. Learn to admire greatness, or at the very least, acknowledge it.

 

[mastermind_quad]

Waqar Hattrick great bowling

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/WwXhqdn4Zwg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Sultan Yusuf]

It all depends on what attributes you cherish...

brilliance over a short period of time or longevety....

Tendulkar has never been GREAT over any particular short length of time... his strength has been that he has been consitent from the age of 16 to 38 now..... that is GREAT but in a different context...

for example when he and Lara batted together... Lara was greater... when he and Ponting batted together... Ponting was better..... when he and Dravid batted together Dravid was better...

Waqar on the other hand.... when he was bowling in early 90s.... no one came close.... no one has ever come close to that quality since... (maybe Malcolm Marshall)

The only reason that Tendu gets more plaudits from the layman is cos of the stats that are considered mainstream...

ie longevity type stats....

BUT in REALITY...

Whilst longevity is great... I value the quality you had at your PEAK to be a million times more VALUABLE....

yes there is a question mark over length of period do you use to measure PEAK... but I think we are all sensible enough to choose an apprpriate length of time...

Other reason why Waqar doesn't get right amount of credit is cos at the time when he reverse swung it was considered cheating... now its considered an art from.

look at the praise Umar gul and Malinga get now... Waqar was a MILION times better than them.....

Sachins greatness = longevity. he ahs sustained being excellent over a period that no one else has come close to.

Waqars greatness =when he was at his best, no one was as good... or has been before or since....

Sachin is like... frankie fredericks or Roger Black.... the guy that was second best.... but was second best for a long time.....

Waqar is like Usain Bolt.... the greatest at his peak...

Its no wonder... Usain Bolts childhood hero was Waqar

Love it, absolutely top post, can't express how brilliant this actually is!

 

[Sultan Yusuf]

What speeds do you guys think Waqar was reaching in this spell to Teenda?

I would say about early 90s. He hadn't reached his peak pace at this time as he was still honing his action. He got even quicker a year later. Watch his action from mid 1990 to end 1991, run up was faster, action was quicker and more side on. YouTube the following "waqar younis special (3)"

I don't care what anyone says, he must have hit 100mph between 1990 and 92. In the words of asif iqbal: No doubt about it.

 

[madhurjyaadhikary]

I'll never forget the dhulai that Jadeja gave Waqar in the 96' WC QF match

[utube]Yp4OSLJrdro[/utube]

 

[SG]

Or the dhulai Tendulkar & co gave him at Centurion on Mar 1, 2003.

 

[SG]

Coincidentally, that game proved to be his last outing in int'l cricket. Which means that Waqar inflicted the first blow to Tendulkar by injuring him in his debut test but Tendulkar had the last laugh when he finished Waqar's career at Centurion.

 

[Sultan Yusuf]

It's quite funny tho - tendulkar and waqar made their debut in their teens in the same match. Waqar was judged as a fully fledged bowler, while sachin was judged as a little bacha with potential. Guess it did seperate the man from the boy.

PEAK for PEAK, Waqar, hands down. Yes the playing may have evened after two back injuries for waqar and teenda fans will console themselves with that little bit of charity. But we're used to giving charity to the bicharay Indians. Be kind to thy neighbour or whatever the saying is..

 

[Sultan Yusuf]

Coincidentally, that game proved to be his last outing in int'l cricket. Which means that Waqar inflicted the first blow to Tendulkar by injuring him in his debut test but Tendulkar had the last laugh when he finished Waqar's career at Centurion.

That word completely nullifies the end of your post. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot!

 

[Indiafan]

I think, in the last match of the same series, Waqar broke Sachin's nose with a bouncer. Sachin went on to complete a fighting half-century in the same match. What a matchup that was

 

[Indiafan]

It's quite funny tho - tendulkar and waqar made their debut in their teens in the same match. Waqar was judged as a fully fledged bowler, while sachin was judged as a little bacha with potential. Guess it did seperate the man from the boy.

PEAK for PEAK, Waqar, hands down. Yes the playing may have evened after two back injuries for waqar and teenda fans will console themselves with that little bit of charity. But we're used to giving charity to the bicharay Indians. Be kind to thy neighbour or whatever the saying is..

Err, when exactly did Sachin meet Waqar at Sachin's peak?

 

[mastermind_quad]

It's quite funny tho - tendulkar and waqar made their debut in their teens in the same match. Waqar was judged as a fully fledged bowler, while sachin was judged as a little bacha with potential. Guess it did seperate the man from the boy.

PEAK for PEAK, Waqar, hands down. Yes the playing may have evened after two back injuries for waqar and teenda fans will console themselves with that little bit of charity. But we're used to giving charity to the bicharay Indians. Be kind to thy neighbour or whatever the saying is..

lolz man ...becharay Indian & charity .....haha....

 

[mastermind_quad]

Coincidentally, that game proved to be his last outing in int'l cricket. Which means that Waqar inflicted the first blow to Tendulkar by injuring him in his debut test but Tendulkar had the last laugh when he finished Waqar's career at Centurion.

Tendulkar hit the final nail on coffin .....Waqar's career was well over in late 90s

 

[Taimur]

Amazing video. Its a pity both Wasim and Waqar and Tendulkar never faced each other when all of them were at their peaks.

No India v Pakistan tests in the 1990's. Could not see and take on .


Bloody politics

 

[Sultan Yusuf]

Tendulkar hit the final nail on coffin .....Waqar's career was well over in late 90s

Seriously do you guys have comprehension skills? You contradict yourself in the same post!

 

[Sultan Yusuf]

No India v Pakistan tests in the 1990's. Could not see and take on .


Bloody politics

I know unforunately it was tendu himself who made a bayaan that india should not play pak in the 90s.

Pretty gutless if you ask me

 

[mastermind_quad]

Seriously do you guys have comprehension skills? You contradict yourself in the same post!

Yes I do have ..... cheers.....

 

[mastermind_quad]

I know unforunately it was tendu himself who made a bayaan that india should not play pak in the 90s.

Pretty gutless if you ask me

Sachin made the bayaan and we followed ....haha....

 

[mastermind_quad]

kam se kam se ek sentence hai jo ab repeat nahi hoga ...to be precise after 2nd April ......haha....

 

[Sultan Yusuf]

It only takes one ball for a batsman to get out and Sachin has been out to many debutants the first ball and this was someone of Waqar's class. Yeah, I really wish they had met during both of their peaks

They met at sachin's peak in 96 tho. Good contest with Waqar just edging it. unfortunately Waqar was past his peak, but gives a fair indication.

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

Love it, absolutely top post, can't express how brilliant this actually is!

Thanks.

POTW?

 

[Sultan Yusuf]

Thanks.

POTW?

Absolutely. If it doesn't get POTW, I'll be amazed - great analogy at the end - Roger Black, Frankie Fredericks Vs Usain Bolt. And that final line - poetic. Just like Waqar's run up and action!

 

[Sultan Yusuf]

Just so everyone's aware - Tendi is one of the greats of the game, but Waqar at his peak was a demon.

it's like a long distance runner v a sprinter. Most neutrals would prefer the sprinter.

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

Waqars peak needs no defence.... let the readers judje....

 

[Sultan Yusuf]

And this post certainly signifies the type of batsmen hunted down by that demon during his peak -



Link: http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showpost.php?p=3724884&postcount=38

Those that do not take your one eye view of the world would tell you that, at the time, for NZ Martin Crowe was one of the best batsmen in the world - NZ also contained the likes of Andrew Jones and Greatbatch and Ken Rutherford, world class performers. The only thing SL was missing at that time were bowlers NOt batsmen! Do you even know your history? They had Aravinda, Ranatunga and co.

Let's not forget he destroyed the best team of THE time (remember the word history) - west indies. check his record against them. And England had some of the leading batsmen in the world like Gooch and Smith who he also cleaned up. Contrary to popular belief - tell me who he didn't face? Aussies? there was only 1 series in that period in 1994 - where Waqar took 8 wickets in one game and didn't do as good in the next game!

Learn your history boy, and don't present with your useless indian bud bud ding, curry bum stats.

 

[aanand]

Awesome . Thanks for posting

 

[ShehryarK]

Awesome . Thanks for posting

Now that's the sort of post we need more of in this thread.

Despite my warning above, seems the trolls on both sides have continued trolling.

Do you all seriously want to get banned over this one thread? Its not worth it, bhaiyo.

 

[IMMY69]

Those that do not take your one eye view of the world would tell you that, at the time, for NZ Martin Crowe was one of the best batsmen in the world - NZ also contained the likes of Andrew Jones and Greatbatch and Ken Rutherford, world class performers. The only thing SL was missing at that time were bowlers NOt batsmen! Do you even know your history? They had Aravinda, Ranatunga and co.

Let's not forget he destroyed the best team of THE time (remember the word history) - west indies. check his record against them. And England had some of the leading batsmen in the world like Gooch and Smith who he also cleaned up. Contrary to popular belief - tell me who he didn't face? Aussies? there was only 1 series in that period in 1994 - where Waqar took 8 wickets in one game and didn't do as good in the next game!

Learn your history boy, and don't present with your useless indian bud bud ding, curry bum stats.

Funnily enough, during the time Waqar was at his peak (just prior to injury), India were sitting pretty low in the test matc heirarchy..
To put it mildy, they were utterly useless outside of the subcontinent.

As India's batting got stronger, they were shielded from the two W's and from the frequent thrashings given to them by Pakistan by their own government.

Tendulkar is no doubt a great, his records speak from themselves but I guess its all about preferences and individual tastes..

For example, watching Lara bat gave me much greater pleasure then watching Tendulkar bat..Likewise if you compare tendulkar to Inzy, Saeed Anwar or even Mark Waugh...

In the Indian line-up Azharrudin was the one to watch for me, and an onsong Laxman was a far better treat then to watch Tendulkar..

This doesnt make Tendulkar a lesser batsman, just that for me I could name atleast 1o players who I would rather have watched batting at their respective peaks... Another example would be Viv Richards, for sheer entertainment Tendulkar doesnt even come close.

I know my Indian friends would argue otherwise and I dont blame them. Tendulkar is the sportsman who has given their country credibility when it comes to the world stage and they'll cling onto the for their dear lives until some other kid takes up the mantle!

 

[Indiafan]

Absolutely. If it doesn't get POTW, I'll be amazed - great analogy at the end - Roger Black, Frankie Fredericks Vs Usain Bolt. And that final line - poetic. Just like Waqar's run up and action!

Yep ignore the fact tht its completely factually wrong, thats Sachin's peaks were greater and he had more peaks than Lara. So in the end Sachin trumps Lara both in terms of peaks and longetivity. apart from that yes, good posts

 

[Indiafan]

Thanks.

POTW?

It was a well written post no doubt, but was factually incorrect. you have also ignored other posts which has proved you wrong which is not mature

 

[Indiafan]

Funnily enough, during the time Waqar was at his peak (just prior to injury), India were sitting pretty low in the test matc heirarchy..
To put it mildy, they were utterly useless outside of the subcontinent.

As India's batting got stronger, they were shielded from the two W's and from the frequent thrashings given to them by Pakistan by their own government.

Tendulkar is no doubt a great, his records speak from themselves but I guess its all about preferences and individual tastes..

For example, watching Lara bat gave me much greater pleasure then watching Tendulkar bat..Likewise if you compare tendulkar to Inzy, Saeed Anwar or even Mark Waugh...

In the Indian line-up Azharrudin was the one to watch for me, and an onsong Laxman was a far better treat then to watch Tendulkar..

This doesnt make Tendulkar a lesser batsman, just that for me I could name atleast 1o players who I would rather have watched batting at their respective peaks... Another example would be Viv Richards, for sheer entertainment Tendulkar doesnt even come close.

I know my Indian friends would argue otherwise and I dont blame them. Tendulkar is the sportsman who has given their country credibility when it comes to the world stage and they'll cling onto the for their dear lives until some other kid takes up the mantle!

I have seen a lot of similar stuff written by some Pak fans and all I can assume is that most of them hasnt followed Indian cricekt in the 90s when Pak was not playing India and started watching him late in his career when he changed his style of playing

I have never seen any neutral fan who has not said that Sachin was one of the most exciting batsmen of the 90s. Heck, how can one watch his Perth innings of 92 against Donald and claim that?

Players from Lara to Richards have gone on record to say they would pay money to watch Sachin play such was the flair and shots he had even in tests

And no its not about giving credibilty to the country. The common person on the street does not give a damn about credibilty. If you look throughout history of cricket which players the masses follow, you will always find more fan following for exciting players than players like Dravid or Kallis

So the large fan following Sachin gathered in the 90s was because he was one of the most exciting players to watch at his peak and the same fans are still remaining loyal to him even though he has changed his style of playing. Just like if Afridi never hits one more six in his lifetime, his fans will stay true to him

And I can personally vouch for this. When I fell in love with his batting, I was 8 years old. And has seen him on song in my teens. And no teenager becomes a fan of a batsman just because of his stat or because he brought credibilty to the country

 

[QuarterBack]

If someone considers Waqar or even Imran Nazir for that matter better at his peak than SRT, whats the big deal. Ppl are entitled to their opinions. Its not fact, its a line of thought, let them hold on. The issue then is quality, not quantity, so one can't really define another person's expectations.

The issue arises only when someone tries to pass off opinions as facts. Else, let people be.

When on song, both WY and SRT were treat to the eyes.

 

[cricketindiafan]

Funnily enough, during the time Waqar was at his peak (just prior to injury), India were sitting pretty low in the test matc heirarchy..To put it mildy, they were utterly useless outside of the subcontinent.

Aah, we were not doing that badly. We were number 5 and Pakistan were number 3

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...1994;spanval1=span;template=results;type=team

Even during Waqar's peak (early 90s), we weren't that low at number 4.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...1990;spanval2=span;template=results;type=team

 

[Indiafan]

If someone considers Waqar or even Imran Nazir for that matter better at his peak than SRT, whats the big deal. Ppl are entitled to their opinions. Its not fact, its a line of thought, let them hold on. The issue then is quality, not quantity, so one can't really define another person's expectations.

The issue arises only when someone tries to pass off opinions as facts. Else, let people be.

When on song, both WY and SRT were treat to the eyes.

I dont think anyone has claimed or refuted that Sachin at his peak was better than Waqar at his peak. People were only refuting Khan ji's assertion that Sachin did not have as many peaks as Lara

 

[Indiafan]

Just so everyone's aware - Tendi is one of the greats of the game, but Waqar at his peak was a demon.

it's like a long distance runner v a sprinter. Most neutrals would prefer the sprinter.

I dont think anyone was comparing Waqar's peak to Sachin's. At least I wasnt.

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

Why are people being so defensive... nobody said Tendu isnt great! Its just that people can be great in different contexts....

Other batsmen peaked higher than Tendu - thats my view. Others can choose to have a different view! Stats just play part of the picture.

Bradman peaked higher
Richards peaked higher
Sobers peaked higher
Lara peaked higher
Ponting peaked higher
Dravid peaked higher
MoYo peaked higher based on 2006 (but probably doesnt really count cos it was too short a period with lower quality bowling)
Maybe some others peaked higher....

But in relative terms I cant see how any bowler peaked higher than Waqar did in early 90's!

 

[iRfaN_LA]

^ Its all about that peak

 

[IMMY69]

Aah, we were not doing that badly. We were number 5 and Pakistan were number 3

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...1994;spanval1=span;template=results;type=team

Even during Waqar's peak (early 90s), we weren't that low at number 4.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...1990;spanval2=span;template=results;type=team

During Waqar's peak, Sri Lanka was still very much a minnow in test matches and South Africa hadnt even played in tests until 1992.
Lets not include Zimbabwe either!

So you're looking at Windies, Aussies, England, Pakistan, New Zealand and India as the main teams.

Pakistan had beaten Aussies at home, Windies at home Kiwis at home and away, and England in every away series from 1987 to 2000.

 

[cricketindiafan]

Why are people being so defensive... nobody said Tendu isnt great! Its just that people can be great in different contexts....

Other batsmen peaked higher than Tendu - thats my view. Others can choose to have a different view! Stats just play part of the picture.

Bradman peaked higher
Richards peaked higher
Sobers peaked higher
Lara peaked higher
Ponting peaked higher
Dravid peaked higher
MoYo peaked higher based on 2006 (but probably doesnt really count cos it was too short a period with lower quality bowling)
Maybe some others peaked higher....

But in relative terms I cant see how any bowler peaked higher than Waqar did in early 90's!

Not sure what those relative terms are, but anyways here's a list

Sydney Barnes peaked higher
George Lohman peaked higher
Charlie Turner peaked higher
Lillee peaked higher
Hadlee peaked higher
Warne peaked higher
Murali peaked higher
Dale Steyn peaked higher

 

[cricketindiafan]

During Waqar's peak, Sri Lanka was still very much a minnow in test matches and South Africa hadnt even played in tests until 1992.
Lets not include Zimbabwe either!

So you're looking at Windies, Aussies, England, Pakistan, New Zealand and India as the main teams.

Pakistan had beaten Aussies at home, Windies at home Kiwis at home and away, and England in every away series from 1987 to 2000.

I was replying to your comment about India being useless during those times and I did say during Waqar's peak Pakistan were the top team in the world.

 

[IMMY69]

I have seen a lot of similar stuff written by some Pak fans and all I can assume is that most of them hasnt followed Indian cricekt in the 90s when Pak was not playing India and started watching him late in his career when he changed his style of playing

I have never seen any neutral fan who has not said that Sachin was one of the most exciting batsmen of the 90s. Heck, how can one watch his Perth innings of 92 against Donald and claim that?

Players from Lara to Richards have gone on record to say they would pay money to watch Sachin play such was the flair and shots he had even in tests

And no its not about giving credibilty to the country. The common person on the street does not give a damn about credibilty. If you look throughout history of cricket which players the masses follow, you will always find more fan following for exciting players than players like Dravid or Kallis

So the large fan following Sachin gathered in the 90s was because he was one of the most exciting players to watch at his peak and the same fans are still remaining loyal to him even though he has changed his style of playing. Just like if Afridi never hits one more six in his lifetime, his fans will stay true to him

And I can personally vouch for this. When I fell in love with his batting, I was 8 years old. And has seen him on song in my teens. And no teenager becomes a fan of a batsman just because of his stat or because he brought credibilty to the country

Like I said its Subjective. What I might find good may not be good for others...

Seeing the likes of Richards come out to bat on difficult wickets without a helmet and against truly fast bowlers who could bowl as many bouncers in an over as they wanted was a sight to behold.

Laras flamboyount stroke play and the abolity to score runs in this way on any kind of wicket was also something else.

Tendulkar is a great, goes without saying, but for me I prefered to watch other batsmen then Tendulkar.

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

Not sure what those relative terms are, but anyways here's a list

Sydney Barnes peaked higher
George Lohman peaked higher
Charlie Turner peaked higher
Lillee peaked higher
Hadlee peaked higher
Warne peaked higher
Murali peaked higher
Dale Steyn peaked higher

Perhaps.... perhaps not....

Maybe Zaheer's peak was higher...

 

[cricketindiafan]

Perhaps.... perhaps not....

Maybe Zaheer's peak was higher...

Naah, he hasn't peaked yet

 

[SG]

I know its some people's opinion but I don't know how could one find Tendulkar's batting boring.

 

[khanz141]

Waqar at his peak was a sight to stand still for. That reverse swing can make u fall in love with bowling. No matter how many times someone sees him bowling, one can never get bored from it.

Same as at his peak

 

[khanz141]

Perhaps.... perhaps not....

Maybe Zaheer's peak was higher...

Oh no, his and Ishant's were the highest ever recorded

 

[cricketloverindia]

I know its some people's opinion but I don't know how could one find Tendulkar's batting boring.

You need a big heart to understand that.

 

[Gotham Cronie]

Bump! 23 years later.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOpHRGrvqMU

 

[Sandeep]

Wonderful thread...looks like MR. Khan ji was pawned multiple number of times! )


Peak > Longevity ) My foot

 

[Zarrar]

Wonderful thread...looks like MR. Khan ji was pawned multiple number of times! )


Peak > Longevity ) My foot

Exactly, Courtney Walsh >>>> Marshal, Lillee, Imran, Wasim, you name it...

Steve Waugh >>>> Sobers, Lara, Richards, Gavaskar....

Ramiz Raja >>>>> Anwar, Hanif....

 

[Bewal Express]

The Op vid doesnt work for me, is there any reason?

Ps
I remember listening to the match on Radio Pakistan. From memory Pakistan dropped lots of chances.

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

Wonderful thread...looks like MR. Khan ji was pawned multiple number of times! )


Peak > Longevity ) My foot

U keep ur longevity.

I'll keep the peak.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Exactly, Courtney Walsh >>>> Marshal, Lillee, Imran, Wasim, you name it...

Steve Waugh >>>> Sobers, Lara, Richards, Gavaskar....

Ramiz Raja >>>>> Anwar, Hanif....

So Marshall Lille Imran Wasim Sobers Lara Richards and Gavaskar didnt have Longeivity and consistency?

 

[Bhaijaan]

Bump! 23 years later.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOpHRGrvqMU

How time passes, wow. And it's been close to 10 years now since Waqar retired.

 

[Austin 3:16]

Another thread on overated Waqar and his peak (which lasted for some 2 years)...no wonder people here hate longevity )

 

[Bhaijaan]

^ How is Waqar over rated? He's a bowling great. And whoever underrates longevity is a tool as well. The longer you serve your country, more respect you gain. Every now and then you get a flash in the pan, true greats carry on.

 

[Pakistaniboy]

^ How is Waqar over rated? He's a bowling great. And whoever underrates longevity is a tool as well. The longer you serve your country, more respect you gain. Every now and then you get a flash in the pan, true greats carry on.

I guess Ishant Sharma and Umesh Yadav will surpass him right Austin?

Such trolls these days.

 

[Austin 3:16]

^ How is Waqar over rated? He's a bowling great. And whoever underrates longevity is a tool as well. The longer you serve your country, more respect you gain. Every now and then you get a flash in the pan, true greats carry on.

Excuse me...he is no way BOWLING GREAT....just 3 years frm 89-92 he bowled quick and well..preety well infact. Post his injury he was never the same bowler. So I will not call him great bowler like Akram, Mcgrath, Hadlee etc. Good bowler allright...great bowler...big no no.

 

[W63L35]

Another thread on overated Waqar and his peak (which lasted for some 2 years)...no wonder people here hate longevity )

I don't think anybody hate longevity... but most people would prefer quality over quantity.

1) "peak" guaranties quality.... "longevity" does not... it brings in quantity!


2) probability of "peak" winning you matches is much higher than "longevity"!

Waqar won 45% of his test matches....
Sachin won 34% of his test matches....

Win/Loss ration in test matches for Waqar was: 1.71
Win/Loss ration in test matches for Sachin is: 0.91


But at the end of the day what matter is .... that you guys are happy with quantity and we are happy with quality. Win-Win situation for fans on both sides of the border.

 

[Austin 3:16]

I don't think anybody hate longevity... but most people would prefer quality over quantity.

1) "peak" guaranties quality.... "longevity" does not... it brings in quantity!


2) probability of "peak" winning you matches is much higher than "longevity"!

Waqar won 45% of his test matches....
Sachin won 34% of his test matches....

Win/Loss ration in test matches for Waqar was: 1.71
Win/Loss ration in test matches for Sachin is: 0.91


But at the end of the day what matter is .... that you guys are happy with quantity and we are happy with quality. Win-Win situation for fans on both sides of the border.

You are in the biggest dillusion if you think longevity has nothing to do with quality. Imran Khan played fr 20 years...served his country for 20 years. The reason being he was good enough to play for 20 years. Will you not call him quality?
Waqar younis was good initially...I would call it flash of brilliance. A very mediocre bowler later. In 99 WC, he was made to sit out due to Akhtar. Accept it - he was not good enough to sustain long in cricket. Both physically and skill wise. I would not call him great.
Another example: Saqlain Mushtaq was bowling better in his pick than anyone...but eventually never became great like Murali or Warne. This is due to the fact that thoguh he was brilliant for a short time..but could not adapt long. His body gave up and bowling became mediocre. You can argue if he would have stayed in the game for longer, he could have been better bowler than Warne or Murali...but u never judge cricket with "If" and "could".

Number of test watches Waqar won single handedly - Cricket is not lawn tennis...its played by 11 playes. Its a team game and you win when you perform as a team. Thats why Australia is so great. Waqar might have odd games he won single handedly(tough i doubt) but as I mention these are flashes of brilliance. I will not call it as a hallmark of a legend.

If Virat Kohli (god forbids) gets injured tomorrow and retires, will you rate him as a legend like Tendulkar. He had brilliant last 2 years than anyone else in cricket histroy? Answer is big no.

I can go on an on for playes from all countires who had that flash of briliance, which we call purple patches...but that has nothing to do with greatness. It comes with longevity...which comes with Discipline...which comes with dedication and love for game.

I have seen many posts on waqar recently and I seriously feel he is very overated here. Pakistan had produced much much better bowlers/legends than him. Its time to put this debate on rest.

 

[bmwduran]

It's not how you start the race but how you finish it.

waqar did not do badly either, i wish i could even be 1 percent of the bowler that waqar was, even indian test team bowlers wish that

 

[bmwduran]

Waqar won, and Tendulkar lost? How exactly? If you're talking about thier careers, we all know who is the better winner. If you're mentioning that particular series, Waqar averaged 40 odd with the ball, while the 16 year old Tendulkar averaged 36 odd with the bat.

whose blood i see on the pitch?

 

[bmwduran]

You are in the biggest dillusion if you think longevity has nothing to do with quality. Imran Khan played fr 20 years...served his country for 20 years. The reason being he was good enough to play for 20 years. Will you not call him quality?
Waqar younis was good initially...I would call it flash of brilliance. A very mediocre bowler later. In 99 WC, he was made to sit out due to Akhtar. Accept it - he was not good enough to sustain long in cricket. Both physically and skill wise. I would not call him great.
Another example: Saqlain Mushtaq was bowling better in his pick than anyone...but eventually never became great like Murali or Warne. This is due to the fact that thoguh he was brilliant for a short time..but could not adapt long. His body gave up and bowling became mediocre. You can argue if he would have stayed in the game for longer, he could have been better bowler than Warne or Murali...but u never judge cricket with "If" and "could".

Number of test watches Waqar won single handedly - Cricket is not lawn tennis...its played by 11 playes. Its a team game and you win when you perform as a team. Thats why Australia is so great. Waqar might have odd games he won single handedly(tough i doubt) but as I mention these are flashes of brilliance. I will not call it as a hallmark of a legend.

If Virat Kohli (god forbids) gets injured tomorrow and retires, will you rate him as a legend like Tendulkar. He had brilliant last 2 years than anyone else in cricket histroy? Answer is big no.

I can go on an on for playes from all countires who had that flash of briliance, which we call purple patches...but that has nothing to do with greatness. It comes with longevity...which comes with Discipline...which comes with dedication and love for game.

I have seen many posts on waqar recently and I seriously feel he is very overated here. Pakistan had produced much much better bowlers/legends than him. Its time to put this debate on rest.

you are joke as a cricket critique, you are calling the cheivments of waqar initially as only "good", tht shows your hatred towards the man. No one in this planet has ever been so dangerous than waqar in his initial years, now by saying that, did he do that badly in later years? it turns out that in the end his strike rate was some 40 odd, only to be surpassed by maybe one or two. Waqar was mediocre by his own standards that he set initially fo rhimself, for others he was still a gorilla. India has not even produce done bowler who could match waqar in his later years. I, on other, hand dont hate sachin, but he is not bigger than Viv, who on any given day is my first choice, the guy had charisma, talent and courage unmatched by anyone,
So take your hatred elsewhere, you are just jeaoulus that waqar was not born in india.

 

[Bhaijaan]

I don't think anybody hate longevity... but most people would prefer quality over quantity.

1) "peak" guaranties quality.... "longevity" does not... it brings in quantity!


2) probability of "peak" winning you matches is much higher than "longevity"!

Waqar won 45% of his test matches....
Sachin won 34% of his test matches....

Win/Loss ration in test matches for Waqar was: 1.71
Win/Loss ration in test matches for Sachin is: 0.91


But at the end of the day what matter is .... that you guys are happy with quantity and we are happy with quality. Win-Win situation for fans on both sides of the border.

Players don't win matches, teams do. Waqar is a bowling great and that is made clear by his own bowling record. One doesn't really have to go into the player comparisons that too of poor quality.

According to your argument Dhoni is better than Andy Flower in tests. Exactly how?

 

[bmwduran]

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/A9rwJXJ6prg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[bmwduran]

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ifaaubN92S8?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Austin 3:16]

you are joke as a cricket critique, you are calling the cheivments of waqar initially as only "good", tht shows your hatred towards the man. No one in this planet has ever been so dangerous than waqar in his initial years, now by saying that, did he do that badly in later years? it turns out that in the end his strike rate was some 40 odd, only to be surpassed by maybe one or two. Waqar was mediocre by his own standards that he set initially fo rhimself, for others he was still a gorilla. India has not even produce done bowler who could match waqar in his later years. I, on other, hand dont hate sachin, but he is not bigger than Viv, who on any given day is my first choice, the guy had charisma, talent and courage unmatched by anyone,
So take your hatred elsewhere, you are just jeaoulus that waqar was not born in india.

You might have liking fr Viv..great. We all respect him like you do. But Sachin was definitely better than him, so its a no discussion.
India never produced bolwers like waqar...I cant deny that either. We are never proud of our bowling arsenals. Through Srinath in late 90's,was bowling better than waqar. You see again flashes of brilliance. I would not rate Srinath great bowler.
Now coming to waqar...he might have been bowling well in the later years ( I would say post 93)...but nothing to mark him on the great bowlers ever. Just to share an honest opinion, when we used to play Pakistan from 96 world cup onwards, I used to worry if our batsman facing bowlers like Akram, Sohaib and saqlain. When waqar used to bowl, I used to take a sigh of relief, as I knew he is not a threat. You might think it as a hatred..but its a truth I am sharing.
No hatred for waqar...a good bowler...but not great. Not a long way away. Cheers.

 

[W63L35]

You are in the biggest dillusion if you think longevity has nothing to do with quality. Imran Khan played fr 20 years...served his country for 20 years. The reason being he was good enough to play for 20 years. Will you not call him quality?

Imran 83 tests in 22 years..
Sachin 190 tests in 23 year.

So what make Imran legend.... quality of those 88 tests or ..or just playing for 22 years? If Imran had played 190 tests like Sachin, would he be considered bigger player than he is now thought of?

Ever think why Kallis is not mentioned in the same sentence as Imran, Botham, Kapil and Hadlee... even with much better record than all four of them?

Number of test watches Waqar won single handedly - Cricket is not lawn tennis...its played by 11 playes. Its a team game and you win when you perform as a team. Thats why Australia is so great. Waqar might have odd games he won single handedly(tough i doubt) but as I mention these are flashes of brilliance. I will not call it as a hallmark of a legend.

Yes... cricket is a team game... so what yo rather have GREAT team )nmber of wins) or one odd-ball legend?

If Virat Kohli (god forbids) gets injured tomorrow and retires, will you rate him as a legend like Tendulkar. He had brilliant last 2 years than anyone else in cricket histroy? Answer is big no.

SO yo are saying Harsh Thakor is an idiot who keeps putting Barry Richards (played only 4 tests) at the top of almost every list he makes about legendary batsmen.

No. I would not put Kohli there because Kohli is no Barry!

I can go on an on for playes from all countires who had that flash of briliance, which we call purple patches...but that has nothing to do with greatness. It comes with longevity...which comes with Discipline...which comes with dedication and love for game.

I have seen many posts on waqar recently and I seriously feel he is very overated here. Pakistan had produced much much better bowlers/legends than him. Its time to put this debate on rest.

So much love.... that you won't quit even when people start to beg you to quit.... but then again... he did not quit when the whole Mumbai stadium (his home crowd) booed him ...when would he just quit as harmless begging?