Waqar Younis vs Sachin Tendulkar debut battle

[Bhaijaan]

I, on other, hand dont hate sachin, but he is not bigger than Viv, who on any given day is my first choice, the guy had charisma, talent and courage unmatched by anyone.

SRT didn't have talent? lol

Charisma and Courage? Please, batsmanship is about productivity. Even bowling is about productivity in fact which is why McGrath is still above a lot of the exciting speedsters.

 

[W63L35]

SRT didn't have talent? lol

Charisma and Courage? Please, batsmanship is about productivity. Even bowling is about productivity in fact which is why McGrath is still above a lot of the exciting speedsters.

Yes, if sports JUST about productivity then;
1) Why even with his phenomenal record, Kallis is still not mentioned along with the likes of Imran, Botham, Kapil and Hadlee?

2) Why Chandrapaul is not mentioned along with the greats of the game (or even WI greats)? He is only 1400 runs away from beating Lara's record.

Tell me where you see him in this list...., means if Chandrapal does not have talent then Sachin does not either. Thank HT for excluding him form this list!
http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showpost.php?p=5282713&postcount=1

let's say Chandrapaul passes Lara's record tomorrow.... would be considered better player, bigger legend than Lara? Apply the same analogy to some other "productive" players!

 

[Austin 3:16]

Imran 83 tests in 22 years..
Sachin 190 tests in 23 year.

So what make Imran legend.... quality of those 88 tests or ..or just playing for 22 years? If Imran had played 190 tests like Sachin, would he be considered bigger player than he is now thought of?



Ever think why Kallis is not mentioned in the same sentence as Imran, Botham, Kapil and Hadlee... even with much better record than all four of them?



Yes... cricket is a team game... so what yo rather have GREAT team )nmber of wins) or one odd-ball legend?
Didnt understood what do you mean here TBH..so cannot answer you. Out of curiosity which college in United States you are studying?

SO yo are saying Harsh Thakor is an idiot who keeps putting Barry Richards (played only 4 tests) at the top of almost every list he makes about legendary batsmen.

No. I would not put Kohli there because Kohli is no Barry!


So much love.... that you won't quit even when people start to beg you to quit.... but then again... he did not quit when the whole Mumbai stadium (his home crowd) booed him ...when would he just quit as harmless begging?

If someone has played double the number of matches in almost same number of years...how his quality is less? Arent you contradicting yourself He played more matches because he was good enough to play longer, his body was well maintained for sooo long, he was discilined enough to sustain for so long. Waqar could'nt do it - bcoz he was not good enough.

And exactly who dosent mention Kallis in the same sentence? Even if some people dont, bcoz he is still playing. Wait fr him to retire and after 5 years you will rate him more than these people and include him in hall of famers list. When murali was playing, how many of you rated him greatest spinner ever? Once he retired...we now know how great he was.

Didnt understood what do you mean here TBH..so cannot answer you. Out of curiosity which college in United States you are studying?

I am no WL to interfere in others posts, but few years/matches wonders like waqar are no greats according to me. I would resist my verdict on Kohli as he just started his career.

Not in a mood of trolling tonight...else you know to what extent I can go...lol. I wanted to discuss with you on this topic seriously in cricketing terms because i feli waqar overated. I guess it hurted you badly..Cheers.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Yes, if sports JUST about productivity then;
1) Why even with his phenomenal record, Kallis is still not mentioned along with the likes of Imran, Botham, Kapil and Hadlee?

His bowling impact has never been big despite his average equaling Kapil and others' in certain areas. Also historically people have rated bowling allrounders more. Kapil, Imran, Botham all 3 despite being bowling allrounders have had numerous moments when they hurt their opponents hard with the bat. Certainly can't think of many memorable bowling performances from Kallis because there are none. Partnership breaker, keeps it tight from one end. That's all he has been. Kapil, Botham, Imran could be mean batsmen when they wanted to be.

2) Why Chandrapaul is not mentioned along with the greats of the game (or even WI greats)? He is only 1400 runs away from beating Lara's record.

Answered it yourself, 1400 runs behind even 6 years after Lara retired.

He's always been chasing Lara much like how Kallis has been chasing SRT/Lara. Kallis has been playing for 16 years but only in last 2-3 years have people started mentioning him in the debates. For good 15-20 years, we have only heard of SRT and Lara. Now that these guys get close, you will see comparisons, Who are we to argue if it is found that Shiva has been as consistent and reliable test batsman as Lara was?

 

[Buffet]

Why even with his phenomenal record, Kallis is still not mentioned along with the likes of Imran, Botham, Kapil and Hadlee?

Despite bowling being his weaker side even now, lot of people rate him higher than those 4 names due to far superior batting. I think after he hangs up his boot, he might be rated above all 4 names by most people when taking account of bowling and batting together.

 

[mani1]

Waqar Younis is one of the best fast bowlers ever the guy was allegedly an average bowler after 94 yet he has similar figures to a guy in his absolute prime.

Dale Steyn

Tests 58 108 12101 6874 288 7/51 10/91 23.86 3.40 42.0 18 18 4

Waqar Younis

Tests 87 154 16224 8788 373 7/76 13/135 23.56 3.25 43.4 28 22 5


Also Miandad has a better test record than Viv.
For those who believe stats are every thing.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Even now, lot of people rate him higher than those 4 names . I think after he hangs up his boot, he might be rated above all 4 names by most people.

No way.

 

[mani1]

No way.

What if he overtakes Sachin's test match tally.

 

[Buffet]

Waqar Younis is one of the best fast bowlers ever the guy was allegedly an average bowler after 94

He was one of the great bowlers we have seen. Calling him average is not right. He was not the same bowler after injury but he was not average bowler by long shot even after his injury. After 1994 he had an average of 28.13. Not great figures but not really an average figure as well.

for all teams, batting average from 1995 to 2003 was around 31-32 so a bowling average of 28.13 is not bad.

 

[Indiafan]

It all depends on what attributes you cherish...

brilliance over a short period of time or longevety....

Tendulkar has never been GREAT over any particular short length of time... his strength has been that he has been consitent from the age of 16 to 38 now..... that is GREAT but in a different context...

I cannot believe that a long time cricket fan can be this wrong about facts. When Sachin and Lara batted together, Sachin was way ahead. In the 90s, when bowling was at its peak, there were only a couple of batsman averaging in the 50s. Lara and Sachin were 2 of them. Sachin's average was 59 then.

Yes, he was that far ahead in average then anyone else. this was the time, when almost all cricket greats, experts, current and ex-players started calling him the one of the best of all times, before he broke any records or played a great number of matches

 

[Indiafan]

U keep ur longevity.

I'll keep the peak.

Sachin's peak of 59 in the 90s when only 2 batsmen averaged in the 50s >>>>>>>>> Lara's peak of 52. But yes, you keep on pulling peak numbers out of wherever you want

 

[mani1]

He was one of the great bowlers we have seen. Calling him average is not right. He was not the same bowler after injury but he was not average bowler by long shot even after his injury. After 1994 he had an average of 28.13. Not great figures but not really an average figure as well.

I agree even the average of 28.13 is better than the so called greats around today such as Anderson and co.
But compared to his prime he was just a shadow of his former self.
Yet his final tally stand up to any great in the game.
I guess most of his retractors haven't seen him in his prime and base there view of him when he wast well past it yet still bowling an attacking line.
Imagine what his average had been if Waqar played for stats.

I remember watching Waqar for the first time when I was a kid in 91 it was a Surrey match he was as fast as Shoaib if not faster but he was wild all over the place so I turned the channel to WI v England and an hour or two later I flipped back and Waqar had took 7 wickets.

 

[Buffet]

No way.

Well, his bowling is weak as compared to batting. But his batting is so much better than Imran, Kapil, Botham and Hadlee that he might make up for his not so good bowling. He is not a strike bowler but he is very decent bowler. In batting he over shadows those 4 all rounder and that might result in people placing him higher than those 4 names. His batting is not in same league as Ponting, Lara or Tendulkar but he is far superior to those 4 all rounder by a huge margin.

I am not talking about stats here but those 4 all rounders never scored that heavily. In Imran's case he averaged high in one part of his career when he was not bowling that well but even then he was not even close to Kallis in run scoring.

I personally prefer bowling all rounder but I was talking about how people might view him after he retires when taking account of his bowling and batting contribution.

 

[Indiafan]

I don't think anybody hate longevity... but most people would prefer quality over quantity.

1) "peak" guaranties quality.... "longevity" does not... it brings in quantity!


2) probability of "peak" winning you matches is much higher than "longevity"!

Waqar won 45% of his test matches....
Sachin won 34% of his test matches....

Win/Loss ration in test matches for Waqar was: 1.71
Win/Loss ration in test matches for Sachin is: 0.91


But at the end of the day what matter is .... that you guys are happy with quantity and we are happy with quality. Win-Win situation for fans on both sides of the border.

Another retard post by a poster who pretends he understands test cricket but is yet to understand the difference between a team game of 11 players vs comparing individual players

By this assertion he is claiming that the rest of Sachin's team of 10 member and Waqar's team of 10 members were exactly equal. Yet these are the same guys who keep on claiming that Pakistan had a way better attack than India's at all time. But here his post claims that Akhtar, Wasim, Imran etc were as good as Venketesh Prasad and Abey Kuruvilla so the rest of the 10 players from each team contributed equally in all those matches

Heck you pair Usain Bolt with 3 handicapped runners in a relay race against the Pakistan relay team and the Pakistan relay team will, win 10 out of 10 times. Will you use this to conclude that each of the Pakistan relay member is better than Bolt and they are better "match-winners"?

How does anyone with any knowledge of cricket whatsover use teams stats (team victory or loss) to compare individiual player is beyond me. This guy is supposed to be an amazing stats person on PP, yet he cannot grasp the basic difference between a team stat and an indicidual stat. Waqar did not win 45 % of matches he played , Pakistan team did

 

[Buffet]

Heck you pair Usain Bolt with 3 handicapped runners in a relay race against the Pakistan relay team and the Pakistan relay team will, win 10 out of 10 times. Will you use this to conclude that each of the Pakistan relay member is better than Bolt and they are better "match-winners"?

LOL, You cracked me up with this example.

 

[Bhaijaan]

What if he overtakes Sachin's test match tally.

Then i would compare their record against all the teams and if Kallis has the upper hand then i would declare him the better test batsman.

 

[W63L35]

SRT didn't have talent? lol

Charisma and Courage? Please, batsmanship is about productivity. Even bowling is about productivity in fact which is why McGrath is still above a lot of the exciting speedsters.

You did not understand my point about Chandrapaul. Let me rephrase it again.... in the context of productivity;

If batsmanship is about "productivity" then Shiv in only 1400 runs less than Lara and way more runs (productive) than Viv ...and even better average than Viv. Let's say he crosses Lara in a year or two.

and then ...if you asked 100 fans who have watched all three bat, how many would prefer Shiv over other two?

If you asked 100 captains/selector, to pick two out of these three player, who are they going to leave out?

Point is ... how many fans/captains/selectors would give a damn about productivity in this case?

So ... the point is ... the quantity of runs and 100s only means everything in India....! As I have said many time..... I am happy that you guys are so happy about it. Keep smiling!

 

[Bhaijaan]

Viv > Lara > Chanders in that order.

Productivity still takes into account your performance against quality oppositions. That's where we break down stats and analyse. Top batsmen throughout history have always averaged around 50 in tests except Bradman. Some end up scoring 5000, some go on to make 15,000. Of course it matters if one has scored 'far' more than the other. Can't conclude much from overall figures if the difference is little.

 

[W63L35]

I am not going to reply to rest of your rant because it was just a rant... nothing else..... and you are/were taking it out of context.

Heck you pair Usain Bolt with 3 handicapped runners in a relay race against the Pakistan relay team and the Pakistan relay team will, win 10 out of 10 times. Will you use this to conclude that each of the Pakistan relay member is better than Bolt and they are better "match-winners"?

Usain Bolt can only run 100 meters out of 400 meter relay race...other 300 meters are going to be run by those handicap runners.

A legendary batsman can bat all 5 days if wanted to .... or stay not out if he wanted to.....to save the test match at the minimum. Bat under pressure ...when wickets are falling on the other end.

Why do you think your Usain Bolt was boooooooed at his own home ground against England? Why do you think, crowd not boo other handicapped batsmen for not being able to save the test.... against a no-name English spinner?

Just recently .....what was his contribution to save 0-8 trashing.... he could even run his own 100 meters let alone running for other handicapped players!

Oh... and speaking losing matches because of handicapped players, West Indies and Zimbabwe did not lose more than Indian.... so when batting under pressure and when wickets are falling around you;

 

[Bhaijaan]

Usain Bolt can only run 100 meters out of 400 meter relay race...other 300 meters are going to be run by those handicap runners.

A legendary batsman can bat all 5 days if wanted to .... or stay not out if he wanted to.....to save the test match at the minimum. Bat under pressure ...when wickets are falling on the other end.

Why do you think your Usain Bolt was boooooooed at his own home ground against England? Why do you think, crowd not boo other handicapped batsmen for not being able to save the test.... against a no-name English spinner?

Just recently .....what was his contribution to save 0-8 trashing.... he could even run his own 100 meters let alone running for other handicapped players!

He's actually ran for the handicapped for most of his career as is quite famously spoken by many Pak cricketers and fans about Indian cricket in the 90s. ''You get Tendulkar out, You have beaten India.''

Hence, regarded as 'THE' legend.

 

[W63L35]

He's actually ran for the handicapped for most of his career as is quite famously spoken by many Pak cricketers and fans about Indian cricket in the 90s. ''You get Tendulkar out, You have beaten India.''

Hence, regarded as 'THE' legend.

A lot of Dravid, Ganguly, Laxman, Azhar, Sehwag fans will be really really really really upset!

 

[Bhaijaan]

^ And how much did they play in the 90s?

 

[W63L35]

He's actually ran for the handicapped for most of his career as is quite famously spoken by many Pak cricketers and fans about Indian cricket in the 90s. ''You get Tendulkar out, You have beaten India.''

Hence, regarded as 'THE' legend.

^ And how much did they play in the 90s?

You said MOST of the career....

2012-1989 = 23 year.
1990s = 10 years.


..and yes, the did play in 1990s.. @40 test each by Dravid/Ganguly... and @50 by Azhar.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Because 'most' included matches after the 90s as well, while the Pak comment was meant for the 90s only except world cups of course.

 

[Zarrar]

You said MOST of the career....

2012-1989 = 23 year.
1990s = 10 years.


..and yes, the did play in 1990s.. @40 test each by Dravid/Ganguly... and @50 by Azhar.

And he and his board chose to avoid the best fast bowling pair of all time during this period, something the poor non-indian batsmen had to contend with...

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

I cannot believe that a long time cricket fan can be this wrong about facts. When Sachin and Lara batted together, Sachin was way ahead. In the 90s, when bowling was at its peak, there were only a couple of batsman averaging in the 50s. Lara and Sachin were 2 of them. Sachin's average was 59 then.

Yes, he was that far ahead in average then anyone else. this was the time, when almost all cricket greats, experts, current and ex-players started calling him the one of the best of all times, before he broke any records or played a great number of matches

Did u actually watch any cricket?

Tendu was ahead in ODI only.

 

[zulfiqar]

Waqar vs Sachin... hmm. It's a fitting match-up actually in the sense that Indian fans were never threatened by Waqar and similarly Pak fans were never threatened by Sachin. Both did worse against their rival teams in comparison to their peers.

Wasim, Anwar, Saqi, Imran >>> Waqar vs India.
Kumble, Dravid, Sehwag, Gavaskar >> Sachin vs Pakistan.

I think it would've been different if Waqar bowled against India the way Saqi did, or if Sachin batted against Pak the way Sehwag did. But both are legends in their own categories. And I rate all 4 of those Pakistani cricketers above Waqar in general also (not saying its cuz they were better vs India).

 

[zulfiqar]

Also I guess I really do understand why so many Pak fans think Waqar was better than Wasim because they saw him in THAT period, or because they are those fans that swear by stats (and Waqar did have phenomenal stats). But still, Wasim will always be better in my eyes. His '92, the numerous Sharjah trophies (some of my most dearest childhood memories watching my heroes demolish almost everyone except for South Africa & Australia ). I swear... SA was the bogie team, we just absolutely scked against them!

 

[Sultan Yusuf]

It's not even a contest - the most destructive bowler ever vs a meek little batsman plodding along

 

[Sultan Yusuf]

Waqar did his job, put his feet up and retired. No regrets, no insecurities.

Sachin is still playing because deep inside he's insecure about his standing in the game.

 

[Sultan Yusuf]

Why are Indians always crying that Teendi was on his own in the 90s?

He had Manjrekar, Azharuddin, Navjot Sidhu etc at the start and...

had Ganguly, Dravid and Azharuddin at the end.

And they probably had their most potent seam bowler in Srinath and spinner in Kumble.

The makings of a very capable side.

Yet he still didn't end up on the winning side too often?

Why is there so much rona peetna....."oooooh boo hooo...he's carried a nations hopes on his shoulders for so long.......boo hoo".

Nothing of the sort. In fact the guys I mentioned contributed very capably and sometimes exceeded teendi's performances too.

This is not Bollywood, this is reality.

 

[musaarthali]

you people can write whatever you want ..doesnt matter

Sachin is greatest cricketer


190 test - 15553 runs

463 ODI - 18426 runs

45 wickets [tests] and 154 wickets ODi

113 catch tests

163 catch ODI


WC winner

was member of No 1 test team

Champions league T20 winner

RS MP in Greatest democracy in world

Rajiv gandhi kel ratna winner

Padmabhushana award winner

Order of australia winner

Future Bharatharatna

Future "Sir"

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

Usain Bolt 100m Vs Tirunesh Dibaba 10,000m :tendulkar


Where is that Usain Bolt smilie when you need one!!!

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showpost.php?p=5293346&postcount=1268

 

[Austin 3:16]

Waqar did his job, put his feet up and retired. No regrets, no insecurities.

Sachin is still playing because deep inside he's insecure about his standing in the game.

Hahaha...mate you are in dillusion too. He retired bcoz he has nothing more to offer. He was regularly kept out of the team due to presence of Akthar. Sachin's massacre in centurion put the final nail in the coffin for him.
As I said yesterday, a good bowler - yes...a great bowler - big no.
You need to have a very strong reason to convince me.

 

[bmwduran]

Well, his bowling is weak as compared to batting. But his batting is so much better than Imran, Kapil, Botham and Hadlee that he might make up for his not so good bowling. He is not a strike bowler but he is very decent bowler. In batting he over shadows those 4 all rounder and that might result in people placing him higher than those 4 names. His batting is not in same league as Ponting, Lara or Tendulkar but he is far superior to those 4 all rounder by a huge margin.

I am not talking about stats here but those 4 all rounders never scored that heavily. In Imran's case he averaged high in one part of his career when he was not bowling that well but even then he was not even close to Kallis in run scoring.

I personally prefer bowling all rounder but I was talking about how people might view him after he retires when taking account of his bowling and batting contribution.

If bowling is weak, which is at a very distance than the cherished 4s, he does not even qualify as a great all rounder. He is a great batsman with average bowling and very boring cricketer than the flair those 4 had

 

[Wasim_Waqar]

Damn Waqar looks so awesome in this video. I went so gaga over Shoaib at his peak, Cant imagine how insanely obsessed i would have been if i had the pleasure to watch Waqar from 1989-1991.

I saw Waqar in 1992. For me he was better.

 

[cricketjoshila]

@sultan Yusuf

I wonder why didnt any of your great Inzy and compamy accumulate runs like Tendulkar?Why dont your HTBs avg 40 or more in all country's?

Tendulkar is widely regarded by most experts as the second greatest batsman ever.Whether you and couple of other posters on PP except it or not,hardly matters.So keep posting your drivel.

Waqar was a great bowler,but the fact that he was not that effective in tests for almost 50% of his career.Plus his pathetic performance againist the two best batting sides of his time takes a lot of shine of his career.Greats are measured over their entire careers not some PEAK as few people on PP do to suit their argument.Anybody care to tell which teams Waqar faced during this so called peak of his career.

 

[Sultan Yusuf]

@sultan Yusuf

I wonder why didnt any of your great Inzy and compamy accumulate runs like Tendulkar?Why dont your HTBs avg 40 or more in all country's?

Tendulkar is widely regarded by most experts as the second greatest batsman ever.Whether you and couple of other posters on PP except it or not,hardly matters.So keep posting your drivel.

Waqar was a great bowler,but the fact that he was not that effective in tests for almost 50% of his career.Plus his pathetic performance againist the two best batting sides of his time takes a lot of shine of his career.Greats are measured over their entire careers not some PEAK as few people on PP do to suit their argument.Anybody care to tell which teams Waqar faced during this so called peak of his career.

Yea cheers, shows your useless knowledge of the game. Who were the best batting sides during his peak years? eh? The no1 team was West Indies at the time and they were still the top batting side. Batsman such as Haynes at his imperious best, Richardson, Lara etc. He played 6 matches against them during his peak, took 35 wickets at an average of 19. Still call that pathetic?

When did he play Australia? Mostly out of his peak. His first few matches were when he was very green. Then he had a very good series in 1994 against them. When they played in 1995/96 he just returned from his second back injury.

India were too scared to play against us during his peak years - not Waqar's fault.

One of the arguments against Waqar is that he took most of his wickets against NZ. What's wrong with that? Do you even know who was playing for NZ at the time? Martin Crowe - one of the greats of the game and one of the best players in the world at the time. Greatbatch, Rutherford and Andrew Jones were pretty decent players too.

Who else did he take wickets against? England? what's wrong with that? They had a very strong batting line up at the time. It contained Gooch and Smith who were both ranked in the top 3 at the time.

Sri Lanka? Their bowling wasn't too hot, but batting? A team containing the likes of Aravinda De Silva, Ranatunga, Jayasuriya, Tillikeratne? A very strong batting line up. Waqar and any bowler should be proud of his performances against them.

Next time, think a little, do some research and contextualise before you post your drivel.

Cheers.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Yea cheers, shows your useless knowledge of the game. Who were the best batting sides during his peak years? eh? The no1 team was West Indies at the time and they were still the top batting side. Batsman such as Haynes at his imperious best, Richardson, Lara etc. He played 6 matches against them during his peak, took 35 wickets at an average of 19. Still call that pathetic?

When did he play Australia? Mostly out of his peak. His first few matches were when he was very green. Then he had a very good series in 1994 against them. When they played in 1995/96 he just returned from his second back injury.

India were too scared to play against us during his peak years - not Waqar's fault.

One of the arguments against Waqar is that he took most of his wickets against NZ. What's wrong with that? Do you even know who was playing for NZ at the time? Martin Crowe - one of the greats of the game and one of the best players in the world at the time. Greatbatch, Rutherford and Andrew Jones were pretty decent players too.

Who else did he take wickets against? England? what's wrong with that? They had a very strong batting line up at the time. It contained Gooch and Smith who were both ranked in the top 3 at the time.

Sri Lanka? Their bowling wasn't too hot, but batting? A team containing the likes of Aravinda De Silva, Ranatunga, Jayasuriya, Tillikeratne? A very strong batting line up. Waqar and any bowler should be proud of his performances against them.

Next time, think a little, do some research and contextualise before you post your drivel.

Cheers.

So Waqar had 3-4 years as a great bowler and then sucked?Right?

India too scared?Is that your knowledge of the game?PCB cancelled as many as 3 tours to India till 1996.Why?Ask them.

Ranatunga?Tilekratne?and pre 1995 Jayasuriya?How much did they avg in tests?

Haynes at his best?really?Haynes was in decline.Do you know when did he retire?Do you know when did Lara made his debut?Richardson was very good though.

Gooch,well pray tell me when did Gooch retire?He was past his best then.And Robin Smith,yea yea.

Martin Crowe was a great batsman no doubt but thats about it for NZ batting TBH.

Waqar was good at for 3-4 years and made merry againist avg teams.When he faced good teams he was out of his depth.People had learned to play reverse swing,tampering the ball wasnt easy (he was the first one to be banned for it)and he became just a good to avg bowler in tests.He was still extremely good in ODIs though.

All in All you just proved my point.

 

[Sultan Yusuf]

So Waqar had 3-4 years as a great bowler and then sucked?Right?

India too scared?Is that your knowledge of the game?PCB cancelled as many as 3 tours to India till 1996.Why?Ask them.

Ranatunga?Tilekratne?and pre 1995 Jayasuriya?How much did they avg in tests?

Haynes at his best?really?Haynes was in decline.Do you know when did he retire?Do you know when did Lara made his debut?Richardson was very good though.

Gooch,well pray tell me when did Gooch retire?He was past his best then.And Robin Smith,yea yea.

Martin Crowe was a great batsman no doubt but thats about it for NZ batting TBH.

Waqar was good at for 3-4 years and made merry againist avg teams.When he faced good teams he was out of his depth.People had learned to play reverse swing,tampering the ball wasnt easy (he was the first one to be banned for it)and he became just a good to avg bowler in tests.He was still extremely good in ODIs though.

All in All you just proved my point.

You really don't know much about cricket pre-2000 do you? How old are you?

Gooch and Haynes were known as batsmen who matured like fine wine. Haynes was phenomenal towards the end of his career as was Gooch - neither were in decline at all. They were having their best years. Go and check the world ratings between 1991 and 93. Seriously, do some research beta.

Waqar's performances dropped because he lost pace, not because he couldn't bowl reverse any more. His role in the team changed and we (unlike India) were fortunate enough that we had enough quality with the likes of Zahid and Shoaib to replace Waqar as an out and out strike bowler.

You have proved zilch in your arguments just shown up how little, very little you know about cricket.

Cricket is played on a pitch not on cricinfo statsguru.

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

Sachin is a rubbish bowler bully... who no-one comes close to in terms of going on and on and on and on.

 

[W63L35]

Sachin is a rubbish bowler bully... who no-one comes close to in terms of going on and on and on and on.

I thought, he frequently got out to rubbish/debut bowlers by becoming their first international wicket? He was even boooooooed by his own home crowd for getting out (and not being able to save the match to win the series) to an off-spinner whose name I can't even remember.

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

I thought, he frequently got out to rubbish/debut bowlers by becoming their first international wicket? He was even boooooooed by his own home crowd for getting out (and not being able to save the match to win the series) to an off-spinner whose name I can't even remember.

Usually after he had bullied them.


Tendu Play's well in most countries.

He has more experience on away pitches than most players have on home pitches. That's where he benefits from having played for so long.


But he has only rarely done well againSt the excellent bowlers in tests.

 

[Chakarbakar]

Some hilarious ignorant trolling going on in this thread. )

 

[W63L35]

Some hilarious ignorant trolling going on in this thread. )

Let's see your knowledgeable/expert trolling??

 

[musaarthali]

Sachin is a rubbish bowler bully... who no-one comes close to in terms of going on and on and on and on.

Even Afridi?

 

[Bewal Express]

Tendulkar is a complete fraud. Any Tom,Dick or Harry can score 15000 runs in test cricket-cricket history is littered with them, any player can score a hundred 100`s-cricket history is littered with them and any player can play for 20+ yrs- cricket history is littered with them.

 

[W63L35]

Tendulkar is a complete fraud. Any Tom,Dick or Harry can score 15000 runs in test cricket-cricket history is littered with them, any player can score a hundred 100`s-cricket history is littered with them and any player can play for 20+ yrs- cricket history is littered with them.

You mean fraud like Afridi ...?? who has scored 7000+ runs and taken 340+ wickets.....when ODI history is littered with players with 7000+ runs and 340+ wickets?

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...ckets;size=200;template=results;type=allround

 

[Chakarbakar]

Let's see your knowledgeable/expert trolling??

With a bunch of ignorant trolls?

 

[Bewal Express]

I always thought was a decent bowler but he started off as an average batsman and has got poorer. He bats like 9 or 10 and has done so for most of his career.

 

[Chakarbakar]

You mean fraud like Afridi ...?? who has scored 7000+ runs and taken 340+ wickets.....when ODI history is littered with players with 7000+ runs and 340+ wickets?

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...ckets;size=200;template=results;type=allround

Afridi fan. ROTFL.

 

[Austin 3:16]

Hahahaha....SInce its exposed black and white that Waqar Younis was mediocre...look at this thread now. Everyone bashing Sachin to take revenge )

 

[Austin 3:16]

Sachin is a rubbish bowler bully... who no-one comes close to in terms of going on and on and on and on.

Then all the bowlers are rubbish? Because Tendulkar bullied all bowlers. I only told previously waqar younis was not great bowler...but you made him rubbish according to your logic )

 

[Austin 3:16]

I thought, he frequently got out to rubbish/debut bowlers by becoming their first international wicket? He was even boooooooed by his own home crowdfor getting out (and not being able to save the match to win the series) to an off-spinner whose name I can't even remember.

And make legends like Abdul qadir and Waqar younis to retire

 

[Afridi96]

Honestly think that Waqar Younis is the greatest bowler the world has ever seen

 

[Zarrar]

Sachin is a rubbish bowler bully... who no-one comes close to in terms of going on and on and on and on.

I have made this argument before as well...Tendu's runs/high average against Aussies is courtesy of McGrath missing in the lineup...

Of all the series he played against Aussies, Tendu played just one with all three, McGrath, Warne and Gillespie in the lineup, which was in '99 and guess what his average, runs tally was pretty similar to the Inzi's and Anwar's against the same lineup the same year (although Anwar's overall average/record with all three in the lineup is a lot better then tendu's)...

Inzi played five series against aussies, and unfortunately for him, he went up against full strength Aussies attack each time...had tendu played five series with full-strength Aussie attack his numbers would have been a lot less impressive then they are...

A truly depleted/rubbish bowling attack bully...

 

[OutKast]

Waqar averaged 50 against India. LMAO to the greatest bowler in the world.

 

[Zarrar]

Then all the bowlers are rubbish? Because Tendulkar bullied all bowlers. I only told previously waqar younis was not great bowler...but you made him rubbish according to your logic )

When did he bully McGrath in tests? How many tests did he win single handedly against Aussies with McGrath in the lineup...Something Lara single handedly accomplished on at least two occasions with a rubbish batting lineup...

 

[Zarrar]

Waqar averaged 50 against India. LMAO to the greatest bowler in the world.

Based on the criteria, Tendu is the 15th best batsman to have played test cricket, not even in the top 10...

 

[kungfu90]

Of all the series he played against Aussies, Tendu played just one with all three, McGrath, Warne and Gillespie in the lineup, which was in '99

...

Not Gillespie, it was damien fleming and brett lee. Averaged around 46-47. Although he was player of the series in that.

 

[Austin 3:16]

When did he bully McGrath in tests? How many tests did he win single handedly against Aussies with McGrath in the lineup...Something Lara single handedly accomplished on at least two occasions with a rubbish batting lineup...

On the hindside when did Mcgrath bullied Tendular in test matches? It was always even contest and as you mentioned they hardly faced each other in test matches. The duo had better fights in ODI's, which was 50:50 between them.
Single handedly - Yah...in your dreams. Cricket is a team game and yu do not win a match (leave alone test match) single handedly. Oh the irony.

Now if you all are done with bashing of sachin ( which is really funny these days)...coming to the topic. You guys still couldnt convinced me Waqar Younis was great bowler. And dont come back with the 89-92 superfast patch theory

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

On the hindside when did Mcgrath bullied Tendular in test matches? It was always even contest and as you mentioned they hardly faced each other in test matches. The duo had better fights in ODI's, which was 50:50 between them.
Single handedly - Yah...in your dreams. Cricket is a team game and yu do not win a match (leave alone test match) single handedly. Oh the irony.

Now if you all are done with bashing of sachin ( which is really funny these days)...coming to the topic. You guys still couldnt convinced me Waqar Younis was great bowler. And dont come back with the 89-92 superfast patch theory

No one has peaked as high as Waqar....

 

[Austin 3:16]

No one has peaked as high as Waqar....

Both way...upward and downward peak. And yes there are others too in that list.

 

[pacesensation]

short and simple, waqar from 89 to 95, was one of the best, pity, sachin didnt play him during that time

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

Funny thing is that indian fans who have seen Tendu across his whole career know i'm right.

Unfortunately the kids havent seen real cricket.

I would suggest speaking to those who have seen Tendu bat his whole career.

 

[Austin 3:16]

short and simple, waqar from 89 to 95, was one of the best, pity, sachin didnt play him during that time

Indeed his career ( i mean the peak) was Short and simple...so never a legend. Though I said it repeated times cricket cant be debated on "Ifs" and "buts", but if Tendu faced Waqar frequently in that era, Waqar's peak would have been even short

 

[kungfu90]

Funny thing is that indian fans who have seen Tendu across his whole career know i'm right.

Unfortunately the kids havent seen real cricket.

I would suggest speaking to those who have seen Tendu bat his whole career.

I know plenty Indians, non-Indians (including neutral and non-bitter Pakistanis) who rate him as the best they have seen, who have followed his whole career.
I followed from 1996-97.

 

[ethan hunt]

Waqar averaged 50 against India. LMAO to the greatest bowler in the world.

only proves that he wasnt a minnow basher , during his time india were the whipping boys of world cricket , probaby the worst amongst the top 8 , won what one test away in the 90s , that too against zimbabwe ?.
waqar would actually regret not playing them often enough , too many cheap wickets on offer there .

 

[Afridi96]

The only reason why Waqar's average Vs India in Tests isn't great is, because he only toured India twice, once at the beginning of his career in 1989 and once in 1999, his Average got to 48 mainly thanks to the tour of 1999, especially the matches in Delhi, was said it was going to be a good wicket, going to help the seamers " a big joke that was", an absolute dead wicket !!

 

[Zarrar]

Not Gillespie, it was damien fleming and brett lee. Averaged around 46-47. Although he was player of the series in that.

Either way with McGrath and Warne in the lineup he was nothing special..

 

[cricketjoshila]

only proves that he wasnt a minnow basher , during his time india were the whipping boys of world cricket , probaby the worst amongst the top 8 , won what one test away in the 90s , that too against zimbabwe ?.
waqar would actually regret not playing them often enough , too many cheap wickets on offer there .

So Australia was a minnow as well?Do you know where Zimbabwe won its only away test series?

Whipping boys whipped your great Waqar to all parts of the ground in 1996 WC.

Cheap wickets in India?LoL in 90s India whipped everyone who dared step in to the country.Waqar wouldnt have been an exception.LoL.Indians would have loved to play a bowler who avgd 50 againist them.

 

[cricketjoshila]

When did he bully McGrath in tests? How many tests did he win single handedly against Aussies with McGrath in the lineup...Something Lara single handedly accomplished on at least two occasions with a rubbish batting lineup...

How many centuries does Tendulkar has when Mcgrath was in the team?How many times have Mcgrath dismissed him.

Tendulkar played 2 full series againist Mcgrath.One in 1999 in Aus and avgd 46.33 and another in 2001 in India avgd 51.

His avg falls to 37 because he played in 2004 with injury in last 2 tests and avgd 17 only.

He has scored 2 centuries and 8-9 50s in the 9 tests he played againist Mcgrath.Mcgrath i think have dismissed him 4-5 times.

Btw Tendulkar won the last test in 2001 againist Australia for India.The first series loss for Australia in 2-3 years.

 

[W63L35]

short and simple, waqar from 89 to 95, was one of the best, pity, sachin didnt play him during that time

Just six years?

 

[Austin 3:16]

Just six years?

Hold on hold on....hahaha....you dont have to try so hard to prove he is great. This is the last time I gonna repeat, no stats can convince me waqar younis was all time balling great. A player who do not perform consistently for over a period is not great in my opinion.
As per the stats Younis was better than Akram and Donald?? A fool would agree to that.

A very good bowler..no doubt...but n way one of the greatest.

Yes Sachin and Waqar debut at the same time. Sachin went on to become the biggest legend of the game...waqar younis perished with time. If he was so good, he wouldnt have made to sit out whole of world cup 99.

 

[Chakarbakar]

Waqar would be nothing without bottle caps.

 

[mani1]

Sachin isn't even the best Indian test batsmen ever Gavaskar is.

 

[Austin 3:16]

I am not sure why all the stats are used for test matches to hype up the players

Lets look at World cup leading wicket taker stats below. It is the biggest tournament for all cricket players and true champions perform there. Waqar is at no. 37 with a pathetic 22 wickets. Even Tikolo from Kenya is above him )

 

[mani1]

I am not sure why all the stats are used for test matches to hype up the players

Lets look at World cup leading wicket taker stats below. It is the biggest tournament for all cricket players and true champions perform there. Waqar is at no. 37 with a pathetic 22 wickets. Even Tikolo from Kenya is above him )

Zaheer Khan (India): 44 wickets in 23 matches.
Alan Donald (South Africa): 38 wickets in 25 matches

So Jaheer is a better bowler than Alan Donald.

 

[Inzy's Aloo]

I am not sure why all the stats are used for test matches to hype up the players

Troll is obvious troll

 

[Chakarbakar]

Zaheer Khan (India): 44 wickets in 23 matches.
Alan Donald (South Africa): 38 wickets in 25 matches

So Jaheer is a better bowler than Alan Donald.

Zaheer has surely bowled better than Donald in WC tournaments.