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Where does Shivnarine Chanderpaul stand amongst the All Time Greats?

Buffet

Buffet

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A batsman who played with one of the weakest bating unit. Here is his career record,

  • 10K+ runs
  • 28 100's & 61 50's
  • 46.77 away avg
  • 51.81 career avg
  • Scored 9 100's & averages 50+ against Aus/SA , the two best bowling units of his time.

All this while playing for very weak batting unit. Now it's understandable that he doesn't find a place among ATG's like Lara, Gavaskar, Kallis, Ponting, SRT, Border, Dravid, Viv, and so on...

I think he is an excellent tier 2 batsman. At PP many names are discussed all the time who are at best tier 2 batsmen but I rarely hear anyone talking about Chanderpaul. He is a player from current era as well so we are not talking about someone who played 60 years ago.

He has lots of runs/centuries, great career avg, good away avg, fantastic record against the best bowling units of his time. Over all, a great record when I see it relative to many tier 2 batsmen.

Keeping the discussion only for Test cricket, where do PPers rate him among other tier 2 players of current and past generations? Where you will put him in pecking order?
 
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He has been scoring quicker in recent times. An absolutely brilliant batsman. He has done well in England too and not just in the recent test series.
 
His longevity in the game and consistency have always stuck out. I still remember when Chanders first came to international cricket. Always consistently scored 50s but just couldn't get to that century. Many claimed he didn't have the physique to last long but he has proven all those critics wrong. Will no doubt go down as one of the Windies best from this era.
 
He is an excellent player who would play a key role in any team.

There is so much emphasis in attacking cricket. But you need these type of players especially in weaker teams. Someone to hold the batting unit up.

Maybe its a culture thing but, the make up of my team would have atleast two of his type (i.e. Cook, Kallis, Dravid esque). And then moderate (Martyn, Hussey, Tendulkar esque i.e. can play a "situation innings" defend or attack if need be) to attacking players (Ponting, KP, Viv, AB (even though flexible)). Balance

Such players are never rated in Australia which is sad. Which is why you barely see Australia putting a rearguard actions when in trouble.

If i could slightly be critical of that Aussie team is that they never had such escapes like England (to some extent SA) for example. I can only think of Ricky's 150 in the Ashes in 05. But they pulled off some impossible victories though
 
He used to be a bit aggressive as well. I remember him scoring a 150 against us in Buffalo Park in East London. I was on holiday in Peddie (rural areas) to visit my grandparents. I wanted to drive there because its less than a 100KM (a 45-60 minute drive). I ended up watching that game on TV.

So this guy had to adapt because of an unreliable batting lineup, he can attack.
 
He has played his cricket quietly but his bat did all the talking. He might be notch below ATG but surely better than tons of other good batsmen we have seen in last 30-40 years. I personally put lot of weight on how you do against the best. He has done fantastic against the two best bowling units of his time.

Combining that with his career records, I would think that he should be rated higher than most tier 2 batsmen but I hardly hear his name at PP. That's why I created this thread to see where people rate him in pecking order if we consider players from last 30-40 years.
 
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Re: Standing of Chanderpaul ?

Always loved watching him bat with Lara. Such a contrast but they both batted quite well together from the times I remember. Big big fan of Shiv. Pity he hasn't really left a legacy behind in Windies.
 
May not be a true legend, but Chanderpaul was a batting genius and IMO the most underrated cricketer of our era. Imagine Pakistan, Bangladesh, SL having chanders, the guy would have got the recognition he deserved.

Its a shame that he is underrated even by his own countrymen. He is no star, but a very consistant perform whose patience was beyond imaginary. Many people can do what Dwayne bravo, Sammy or Pollard does, but a chanderpaul is a rarity. I dont understand why he was omitted from the ODI team. A team full of sloggers could have done a whole lot of better with a batsman like him, and dont forget, he has an average of 40+ in ODIs
 
I often joke with my frnds that whenever i browse any cricket site to check scores when WI or Zimbabwe is playing, then 2 things often happen - Chanderpaul will be batting on 100* and Chigumbura wud be batting in 40s with 2 or 3 sixes...
 
A genuine fighter. . a person who can block 200 balls just for his team....underrated cuz he plays of a weak team
 
Very underrated. The lone great batsmen in his team. Had to perform under much pressure with wickets tumbling.

Even Gayle often never really stuck around, it was down to Chanderpaul.

I rank him as a Tier 1 batsmen, he should be mentioned with the likes of Dravid, Ponting, Kallis. Has records of over 50 average against all of Australia, South Africa and England. Averages 66 in England, over 40 in SA.

People have a go at his inability to attack, but they don't go on about Dravid for example. Stone walling and playing defensively is a good strategy in tests, it wears the bowlers down and hence makes scoring easier for the rest. Chanderpaul played in a team where it was imperative to try and stick around and get that score somewhat decent when all the rest of the batsmen had failed. Chanderpaul bats in a way that the team needs him to do.

A great player, shame he gets so little recognition.
 
Extremely underrated, though I feel that is because of his technique. Great batsman, regardless of technique. Truly a Wall in a weak batting lineup.
 
Underrated. Not sure how anyone could argue he is not a great. Has been unfortunate in a way to play in a very weak side and therefore perhaps doesn't have many of those match-winning innings that make you stand out.
 
He's a true great IMO, not a second tier batsman. No idea why he isn't mentioned as much as the others. Perhaps WI fans don't make as much noise about him as other fans make about their players. This used to be the case with Kallis as well.
 
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Jo_Don said:
He's a true great IMO, not a second tier batsman. No idea why he isn't mentioned as much as the others. Perhaps WI fans don't make as much noise about him as other fans make about their players. This used to be the case with Kallis as well.
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Because people have seen bread loaves with more charisma and personality than Chanderpaul and Kallis. Same is the case with Amla but he gets away with it because of his strike rate in ODIs and religious reasons (especially in Pakistan) :moyo
 
Buffet said:
Keeping the discussion only for Test cricket, where do PPers rate him among other tier 2 players of current and past generations? Where you will put him in pecking order?
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He'd get into the best WI XI of the last 30 years, but cannot be considered a WI ATG because he doesn't score fast enough to do real damage. When he is batting against England, I never feel that WI are getting into a winning position.

I don't know why the current Windies team wastes him down at #5 where all he seems to do is play rearguard actions. He should be at #3 where he could have more time to 'bat big and bat once'.
 
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Mamoon_Ghaffar said:
Because people have seen bread loaves with more charisma and personality than Chanderpaul and Kallis. Same is the case with Amla but he gets away with it because of his strike rate in ODIs and religious reasons (especially in Pakistan) :moyo
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True, but there's a fine line between charisma and arrogance. Besides, their job is to play cricket, not make the news for all the wrong reasons.
 
Robert said:
He'd get into the best WI XI of the last 30 years, but cannot be considered a WI ATG.

I don't know why the current Windies team wastes him down at #5 where all he seems to do is play rearguards actions. He should be at #3.
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They prefer to attack a lot at the start of the innings and the Chanderpaul cushion helps them to bat with freedom at the top because they know he's there to prevent a collapse and hold the innings together :misbah
 
Jo_Don said:
True, but there's a fine line between charisma and arrogance. Besides, their job is to play cricket, not make the news for all the wrong reasons.
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It's not about making news for all the wrong reasons :afridi

Some players ooze star quality and they stand out from the crowd regardless of their performance and records.

Chanderpaul is very bland and boring like Kallis and people don't take notice of them.

Also, they can bat for 2 days but still the opposition won't worry that they'd take the game away from them :kami
 
An wesome player with great consistency and mental strenght.. But People often ignored him over other mediocres ..:facepalm:
 
Highly underrated, along with the Misbahs and Samaraweeras of this world.
 
Re: Standing of Chanderpaul ?

Mamoon_Ghaffar said:
Disrespectful to compare him to Misbah and Samaraweera.
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Don't think it's a comparison to be fair, just a general statement. Both those guys are underrated. Doesn't mean they compare to Chanders though.
 
Jo_Don said:
He's a true great IMO, not a second tier batsman.
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ads101 said:
I rank him as a Tier 1 batsmen, he should be mentioned with the likes of Dravid, Ponting, Kallis. Has records of over 50 average against all of Australia, South Africa and England. Averages 66 in England, over 40 in SA. A great player, shame he gets so little recognition.
Click to expand...

Shayan said:
Underrated. Not sure how anyone could argue he is not a great. Has been unfortunate in a way to play in a very weak side and therefore perhaps doesn't have many of those match-winning innings that make you stand out.
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Mamoon_Ghaffar said:
As good as Kallis and Dravid.
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Khaseer said:
A lesser Kallis to me.
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For me doing well consistently in variety of condition is most important factor along with how you do against best bowling units of your time. Let’s take 50+ as bench mark. Then we have,

Dravid : --- 50+ avg in 7 countries( Eng, NZ, Pak, WI, BD, Zim, Ind).
Kallis : ---- 50+ avg in 6 countries ( Ind, Pak, SA, NZ, Zim, UAE).
Chaderpaul: 50+ avg in 4 countries (BD, Eng, Ind, WI ).

Aus/SA had best bowling unit in this era. Pakistan had strong bowling unit as well. Those countries had many ATG bowlers. Kallis avg 50+ over all only against Pakistan . Dravid avg 50+ over all only against Pakistan. Chanderpaul avg over all 50+ against SA. He almost makes it against Aus as well.

Taking account of all factors, too me he seems a notch below Kallis/Dravid. Not by any huge margin but slightly below them but right up there.
 
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Robert said:
He'd get into the best WI XI of the last 30 years, but cannot be considered a WI ATG because he doesn't score fast enough to do real damage. When he is batting against England, I never feel that WI are getting into a winning position.
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Executioner said:
Chanderpaul was a batting genius and IMO the most underrated cricketer of our era. Imagine Pakistan, Bangladesh, SL having chanders, the guy would have got the recognition he deserved.
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May be he doesn’t get into best WI XI. We can take a look for BD, Pakistan and SL to see how well he compares with their best bats in those countries. Same criterion as above. How consistent you were in different countries & how you did against the best bowling units.

BD ------– None even comparable. He would have been the best bat in BD history by a huge margin with same records.
Pakistan – Best bat is easily Minadad in Pakistan’s history.
SL -----– Best bat is easily Sangakkara in SL’s history.

Sangakkara : 50+ avg in 6 countries( Aus, NZ, Pak, SL, Zim, UAE)

Chaderpaul : 50+ avg in 4 countries (BD, Eng, Ind, WI )

Miandad : 50+ avg in 2 countries( Pak, NZ) [ Almost makes it in Ind]

Sangakkara/Chanderpaul played against top bowling units of SA/Aus having many ATG’s. Sangakkara played less against Pakistani’s ATG’s due to starting in 2000s. Miandad played against WI who had multiple ATG’s bowlers. Don’t know if any other team had multiple ATG bowlers in Miandad’s time. Sangakkara averages 50+ against Pakistan. Chanderpaul averages 50+ against SA and almost 50 ( 49.96) against Aus.

So in hypothetical scenario presented by 'Executioner', if Chaderpaul was playing for SL or Pakistan, where he will stand in pecking order? For BD it’s an obvious answer.
 
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Standing of Chanderpaul ?

Executioner said:
May not be a true legend, but Chanderpaul was a batting genius and IMO the most underrated cricketer of our era. Imagine Pakistan, Bangladesh, SL having chanders, the guy would have got the recognition he deserved.
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What the heck did I just read :)))

Are you putting Bangladesh ahead of WI? :))
 
Buffet said:
For me doing well consistently in variety of condition is most important factor along with how you do against best bowling units of your time. Let’s take 50+ as bench mark. Then we have,

Dravid : --- 50+ avg in 7 countries( Eng, NZ, Pak, WI, BD, Zim, Ind).
Kallis : ---- 50+ avg in 7 countries ( Ind, Pak, SA, NZ, Zim, UAE, WI).
Chaderpaul: 50+ avg in 4 countries (BD, Eng, Ind, WI ).

Aus/SA had best bowling unit in this era. Pakistan had strong bowling unit as well. Those countries had many ATG bowlers. Kallis avg 50+ over all only against Pakistan . Dravid avg 50+ over all only against Pakistan. Chanderpaul avg over all 50+ against SA. He almost makes it against Aus as well.

Taking account of all factors, too me he seems a notch below Kallis/Dravid. Not by any huge margin but slightly below them but right up there.
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fixed
 
Standing of ChanderPaul?

On topic - Excellent player but has been underrated because of his team failures.

Off topic - Looking at OP's heading, first I thought of standing of ChanderPaul on the crease :yk
His standing on the crease really annoys me and I gets irritated by his shaky moves on the crease.
Feels like opposing bowler too might also gets irritated with his style of standing on the crease and his shaky moves.
 
His style may not be everyones cup of chaai but hes effective and a world class batsmen whose performed against most oppostion and against quality bowling.
 
once again saves his team from embarrassment :14:
ATG for me easily. I rate him as a Low tier ATG. High tier is Sachin, Lara etc while lower tier is Kallis for example.
He is right now the only proper ATG playing in all of cricket along with Steyn.
 
Better batsman than Dravid and Kallis. He is batting as good as he used to bat when I saw him for the first time in series against India in 97 , the age has taken no toll on his form whatsoever.
 
:))) it's hilarious how some Indians keep mentioning him as a top in "2nd line of players", the best in "very good" category and ironically naming Dravid and Gavaskar as ATG.

Don't get me wrong, Dravid is an excellent batsman IMO and a contender for ATGs as well and a better Test bat than even SRT.

But don't show this bias and reluctance in comparing Chanders with Dravid/Gavaskar etc. He's in NO WAY of less caliber than Dravid and is equal or better than him/Kallis. A class act.

Single-handedly carrying the weak WI lineup - that makes him even more deserving. Definitely a contender for ATG test bat but wouldn't be a unanimous ATG mostly because of his style.
 
Haz95 said:
once again saves his team from embarrassment :14:
ATG for me easily. I rate him as a Low tier ATG. High tier is Sachin, Lara etc while lower tier is Kallis for example.
He is right now the only proper ATG playing in all of cricket along with Steyn.
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Good first two lines, agree with them.

Chanders, Dravid, Kallis are a sure contender for low-tier ATGs.
 
He is amazing.
A huge fan of his.
Holding up the fragile batting of the West Indies single handedly.
Such an injustice that he can't find a place in the ODI team, simply to increase his longevity.
He is fit enough, let him play.
 
Hasn't had too many impact innings which is why he doesn't get mentioned with the top dogs. Same reason why people criticize Dravid and Kallis.
 
eradicator said:
Better batsman than Dravid and Kallis. He is batting as good as he used to bat when I saw him for the first time in series against India in 97 , the age has taken no toll on his form whatsoever.
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Ofcourse he is better than Kallis..... and Jayawardena is better than Tendulkar
 
Legend. Basically has been the backbone of Windies since he started.

Had great company in Lara when he was around and a bit of a spark from Jimmy Adams but that's about it.

Still the rock and core of Windies.

Will probably most likely end up playing with his son for a Windies XI one day. That would be amazing.
 
Who cares what people think? Shiv stats speak for themselves. Playing not 100 tests but over 150 tests and still averaging over 50 is clearly an ATG. Don't forget his style of play is completely different and technique ain't eye catching yet can maintain an average of over 50.

He deserves far more respect then he currently gets which is a pity considering he's also a very nice guy.
 
hopefully he becomes like Graham Gooch and has the best batting period around age 40
 
The only test batsman that West Indies has right now. Very underrated cricketer.

I love this guy. Way better then Gayle for me.
 
an absolute colossus of the game, to have such an outstanding record over 150+ Tests and in such a poor team...just wow.
 
So reliable and consistent, absolute class. Don't understand why he isn't picked for ODIs anymore. Will really strengthen their batting.
 
Great player. Only a couple of not outs short of becoming as good as Lara and Tendulkar.
 
As previously said, he would have been termed as an ATG if he belonged to a superior team.

After Lara, he has carried his team's batting solely on many occasions in Test matches.
 
Chromeuser said:
Standing of ChanderPaul?

On topic - Excellent player but has been underrated because of his team failures.

Off topic - Looking at OP's heading, first I thought of standing of ChanderPaul on the crease :yk
His standing on the crease really annoys me and I gets irritated by his shaky moves on the crease.
Feels like opposing bowler too might also gets irritated with his style of standing on the crease and his shaky moves.
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He stands at an angle and as a result he does not seem to get caught behind as often as others batsmen
 
Definatley a world class performer and still one of the best test batsmen around, sadly hes surrounded by batsmen who are only suited to T20 cricket and i feel sorry for him carry such a sorry bunch of players.
 
unfortunately the most underrated batsman & the other regrettable thing about his batting is his batting position in 11. Started his career as no 6,7 batsman but played most his career as no 5,6 batsman. He should have been played at 3 or 4 atleast. Much better than bravo shravo. Its very usual to see W.I all out at 225 or 250 with chanderpaul rescuing n.o at 90 or 100. The point is that w.i team management hasnt capitalize with his talent. After lara & sarwan he should play up.
 
Now we're assigning tiers to the greats of the game. This forum never ceases to amaze... :D
 
he comes after Sachin ponting kallis dravid

he is tied up with sanga
 
sangakkara isn't in the ATG category yet. Chanderpaul has been for some time now:narine
 
2eb8spj.jpg

What's brilliant is how Chanderpaul can switch gears. He is thought of as a slow batsman, but he can accelerate if neeed, and on the drop of a dime, far better than Dravid and Sanga.

The problem is, Chanders bats far too low down the order. If he were batting at 3 or 4, he would have had 20 more centuries over the past 4 years alone. And of course he simply does not get out. Indeed, his West Indian nickname is "the barnacale", because he cannot be removed.
 
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desi_launda said:
Sanga,kallis,chanders all are in tough competition with each other
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You can't be serious. Kallis is ahead of Shiv and Sanga as a batsman. As an all rounder, Dravid called him Sobers of our generation.
 
One of the most underrated players in the world. He averages 60+ in the last 4-5 years, yet he still isn't mentioned alongside the likes of De Villiers and Kohli. He's a better test match batsman than both of them! Not to mention that he has carried the Windies since Lara retired!
 
Among WI batters I have seen, I would put him sixth behind Sir Viv, Lara, Lloyd, Greenidge and Haynes. Those guys were impressive because they all took the game away, fast.
 
Buffet said:
You can't be serious. Kallis is ahead of Shiv and Sanga as a batsman. As an all rounder, Dravid called him Sobers of our generation.
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Shiv is comparable to Kallis the batsman but agreed that Sanga isn't, Sanga still isn't an ATG yet despite his ridiculous record and average.
 
Robert said:
Among WI batters I have seen, I would put him sixth behind Sir Viv, Lara, Lloyd, Greenidge and Haynes. Those guys were impressive because they all took the game away, fast.
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Could you please give us insight into some key batting attributes of these 6 players of WI ? A lot of us haven't watched them play.
 
Where does Chanderpaul stand amongst the All Time Greats?

Haz95 said:
Shiv is comparable to Kallis the batsman but agreed that Sanga isn't, Sanga still isn't an ATG yet despite his ridiculous record and average.
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Hardly, in 154 matches Shiv has 29 hundreds, whereas Kallis has 45 in 166. And the only places he averages 50+ is in West Indies, Bangladesh, India and England.

Shiv:
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/51469.html?class=1;template=results;type=batting

Kallis:
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/45789.html?class=1;template=results;type=batting

Now I respect Shiv as much as anyone here, but people are getting a bit carried away.
 
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Where does Chanderpaul stand amongst the All Time Greats?

tempus123 said:
Could you please give us insight into some key batting attributes of these 6 players of WI ? A lot of us haven't watched them play.
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They were not easily intimidated and could turn a match in a session, much like Gilchrist did. Although I would say that applies to Viv more than anyone else. The guy was insane - he deliberately didn't wear a helmet because he wanted fast bowlers to feel like they were beneath him.
 
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Id say he is on par with Dravid and Kallis as a batsman

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