Why do Indian fast bowlers fade away in their careers?

in_cutter

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What is the matter with these guys? Why can't they keep up with their initial good start to their careers? Here is a list:

Irfan Pathan (was touted as the next Wasim lol)
Munaf Patel (was pretty nippy)
Ashish Nehra (again, was quite nippy)
RP Singh (where is he???)
Sreesanth
and now Ishant Sharma

All of the above faded away quickly. Who is next?
 
Umesh Yadav is the best they have and is still there, but where's Varun Aaron ? Seems to be the latest victim of the Indian bowling hype, played 1 Test/4 ODIs and never to be seen again.
 
What is the matter with these guys? Why can't they keep up with their initial good start to their careers? Here is a list:

Irfan Pathan (was touted as the next Wasim lol)
Munaf Patel (was pretty nippy)
Ashish Nehra (again, was quite nippy)
RP Singh (where is he???)
Sreesanth
and now Ishant Sharma

All of the above faded away quickly. Who is next?

Did all of them really had a good start? I recall Irfan having a decent start.
 
Indian bowlers

Umesh Yadav is the best they have and is still there, but where's Varun Aaron ? Seems to be the latest victim of the Indian bowling hype, played 1 Test/4 ODIs and never to be seen again.

Oh yeah, forgot to mention Varun Aaron. Does he have a future?
 
Umesh Yadav looked like a real deal but he is hardly fit.
Varun Aaron from what little I saw looked good but he has massive injury issues I guess.

No one other than these in recent times has impressed me.
 
Indian bowlers

This extract is an extra from Mark Nicholas (2008):


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml;jsessionid=INYOBZ2EGZ2AXQFIQMFSFFWAVCBQ0IV0?xml=/sport/2008/01/21/scnich221.xml[/url]


'In Perth, we witnessed a torture and only a man as strong as the recipient could have held on for so long. Sharma was part Flintoff, part Courtney Walsh and part Curtly Ambrose and yes, the worn pitch encouraged him. But it was the relentlessness that both caught the eye and raised the brow. The sheer clarity of what was taking place will not be forgotten. If Sharma does not go on and on from here, there will be questions asked. The man is a born assassin'.
 
^got overexcited and exaggerated quite a bit. It was good spell but not all that crap.
 
Irfan is still good with new ball. he is the right kind of third seamer.

A good fielder and more than handy with the bat.
 
I can only recall Kapil Dev and Javagal Srinath from India who did justice to fast bowling throughout their careers!
 
I feel sorry for Indian pacers, the media machine hypes them up, then they are overbowled in ODIs and they lack any real mentor to shepherd them through rough patches. It is a real injustice.

Ishant and Irfan I though had real potential.
 
Bhuvneshwar Kumar looks to be a pretty decent ODI bowler.
 
What is the matter with these guys? Why can't they keep up with their initial good start to their careers? Here is a list:

Irfan Pathan (was touted as the next Wasim lol)
Munaf Patel (was pretty nippy)
Ashish Nehra (again, was quite nippy)
RP Singh (where is he???)
Sreesanth
and now Ishant Sharma

All of the above faded away quickly. Who is next?

Neither of them apart from the young Irfan were actually quite good and it was obvious where their careers were headed. I think because of the pathetic nature of Indias fast bowling history that someone who manages to get the ball to the other end without the batsman falling asleep stands out.

Sreesanth type of player wouldn't even be selected for Chak char so byasee 3rd XI tape ball tournament squad in Pakistan.
 
Well with such a massive pool of players to choose from its quite understandable that 'competition' plays a massive factor in getting and staying in the team. Pitches in India don't help Indian pacers. Also lack talent.
 
You're forgetting quite possibly the fastest bowler ever, Atul Sharma.
 
You're forgetting quite possibly the fastest bowler ever, Atul Sharma.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/JfYLEzVhAFY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

"Bharat kay pass Ishant Sharma hai jo ... Bret Lee ki raaftar ko chunoti day sakte hain" *meanwhile gets hit for 4 in some IPL game* :kapil

"Shoaib aur Bret Lee uske (Atul Sharma) sapne paani mangte nazar ae gayin" :kapil

Just few gems. :))
 
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Irfan was very good.But then he got injured and coaches changed his action.And since then he lost pace and swing end of it.

Munaf was 140k plus bowler,but Chappel asked him to decrease pace and try to be accurate.This is what he said in his interview in 2006.And now he is gone.

RP was also nippy and swung it.He got lazy put on weight.

Ishant Sharma was never special.HAd bit of pace and was tall thats it.Never moved the ball except a few.

Yadav/Aaron/Shukla/Suyal are our best hopes.Aaron will play Ranji this season and is in Jharkhand squad.He has had a back surgery but is said to be bowling at 140k plus again.

But for these guys to succeed they need to get a chance.But our arrogant stubborn captain wants them to wait and wants Ishant and Vinay kumar.
 
its a strange phenomenon that occurs too often for it to be a coincidence. perhaps injuries, perhaps age, i dont know.

but can the same not be said about our batsmen? i might be wrong, but i seem to recall that we quite often have batsmen that start very well and then begin to fade. yassir hameed, umar akal, jamshed are the few that immediately come to mind.
 
i know this is a long shot, but i read an opinion a while ago about the issue being related to social psychology: batting requires patience and solidity - perhaps between india an pakistan, indian culture is more collectivist: patient and dependable, which is why they have produced so many good batsmen. completely opposite to this, bowling, the opinion stated, requires fire and passion - perhaps pakistani culture is more attuned to individualism: volatile excitement, which is why they produce much better bowlers than batsmen.

i dont have an opinion on this but i thought it was interesting.
 
T.A shekar was said to be the fastest bowler India has ever produced but he played only few matches and faded away...
 
Irfan was very good.But then he got injured and coaches changed his action.And since then he lost pace and swing end of it.

Munaf was 140k plus bowler,but Chappel asked him to decrease pace and try to be accurate.This is what he said in his interview in 2006.And now he is gone.

RP was also nippy and swung it.He got lazy put on weight.

Ishant Sharma was never special.HAd bit of pace and was tall thats it.Never moved the ball except a few.

Yadav/Aaron/Shukla/Suyal are our best hopes.Aaron will play Ranji this season and is in Jharkhand squad.He has had a back surgery but is said to be bowling at 140k plus again.

But for these guys to succeed they need to get a chance.But our arrogant stubborn captain wants them to wait and wants Ishant and Vinay kumar.

Pretty much this..
 
i know this is a long shot, but i read an opinion a while ago about the issue being related to social psychology: batting requires patience and solidity - perhaps between india an pakistan, indian culture is more collectivist: patient and dependable, which is why they have produced so many good batsmen. completely opposite to this, bowling, the opinion stated, requires fire and passion - perhaps pakistani culture is more attuned to individualism: volatile excitement, which is why they produce much better bowlers than batsmen.

i dont have an opinion on this but i thought it was interesting.

A lot to do with role models. For Example: Wasim is the reason for Pakistan to have so many left hand bowlers playing in XI even though percentage of left hand bowlers is very low at grass root level.
 
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Irfan was very good.But then he got injured and coaches changed his action.And since then he lost pace and swing end of it.

Munaf was 140k plus bowler,but Chappel asked him to decrease pace and try to be accurate.This is what he said in his interview in 2006.And now he is gone.

RP was also nippy and swung it.He got lazy put on weight.

Ishant Sharma was never special.HAd bit of pace and was tall thats it.Never moved the ball except a few.

Yadav/Aaron/Shukla/Suyal are our best hopes.Aaron will play Ranji this season and is in Jharkhand squad.He has had a back surgery but is said to be bowling at 140k plus again.

But for these guys to succeed they need to get a chance.But our arrogant stubborn captain wants them to wait and wants Ishant and Vinay kumar.
I wonder if Munaf really can't bowl fast anymore. His speed reduction is ridiculous. And his action, though I might be wrong really doesn't look that different, he hasn't modified it much. Should be able to get pace out of it. Don't mind Munaf really, out of all the "indian fast bowler seniors" (excluding Zaheer Khan who's probably too old now) , prefer him. He didn't actually bowl half bad in the world cup and the years around that if I remember rightly. Slow, but accurate. None of this hit me stuff some of the others are dishing out. Irfan Pathan I might play in ODIs just because he's not any worse than guys like Ishant, and he can bat at least which makes his overall worth decent. Though he's changed a lot, and not as effective as he used to be.
 
There are raw fast bowlers in the domestic circuit (like Munaf, he could bowl at 145k in club crickets and for club level batsmen it's extreme pace) but they are raw in all aspects, their run up, action, diet everything. This pace helps them to get noticed but once get selected to the national team they will be trained by international coaches (coach, bowling coach, trainer, dietician, psychologist and what not). They will remodel them from top to bottom. It is necessary too because of the amount of cricket India plays every year, unscientific training will not provide them any longevity and moreover in club level you need sheer pace to beat the batsmen, international level more techniques needed.

I don't think it is only limited to Indian pacers. Pakistan pacers are better than Indians but not by any big margin in terms of prolonged career. Currently which seamer had the longevity of Imran, Wasim or Waqar? Gul always in and out. Wahab not seen much in action nowadays, don't know if it's injury or lack of form. Junaid is doing well now, want to see him playing a long season and Irfan too not all that fit.
 
I don't think it is only limited to Indian pacers. Pakistan pacers are better than Indians but not by any big margin in terms of prolonged career. Currently which seamer had the longevity of Imran, Wasim or Waqar? Gul always in and out. Wahab not seen much in action nowadays, don't know if it's injury or lack of form. Junaid is doing well now, want to see him playing a long season and Irfan too not all that fit.

It's not about careers, otherwise Ishant Sharma indeed had a longer career than Mohammad Zahid, but it's about the FAST bowlers who after a good beginning fade away in India.
And the fact that Pak has produced three fast bowlers with +300 wickets/average sub 25 (how many in a "cricketing established" country like England, since 1952 when Pak got his Test status ?) and one with a half-decent career (Shoaib Akhtar) is already a miracle considering that they had to bowl the majority of their deliveries on dead tracks which usually kills one's career (Mohammad Zahid, to name him again.)

What amazes neutrals is not that Pak produced fast bowlers (WI and AUS did too) but the fact they did in such conditions (no infrastructure, flat tracks, their Asian neighbours not having a single genuine fast bowler, etc).
 
They should focus on Yadav/Aaron/and a left seamer Undkat (?).

Rest are waste of time

and ofc BK
 
Lack of competition

When junk like Ishant sharma can get so many intl caps even a club quality bowler can become a pace spearhead and soon get an IPL contract. Seriously Vinay kumar earning 650Ks for a single IPL season. I could say the same about our cricket. There is no way that Rubel and Shahadat should be anywhere near the picture
 
Cuz they are all garbage.

This. We can find all the excuses, but the truth is, that all of those bowlers have been garbage, who settle for what they already have, and never improve. When the will to improve dies, then the little they already had also fades away.

Compare that with Wasim and Waqar. They kept the fire in them throughout the 90s. Indian bowlers dekho, wicket le ke bhi yakeen nhi kar paate ki wicket mil gaya... Batsman kya khaak darega. :kapil
 
Playing on Indian wickets your whole career must be soul crushing.
 
I've said this before on this forum. It's the domestic setup that neuters fast bowling in India. Also the cricket culture rewards the batsman and not the bowler. Also, and I'm not an expert, I would like to see the averages of India bowlers throughout a ranji season. So beginning period, middle and then end. Also if someone can comment on the average score on a typical ranji pitch /in a match, also the highest wicket takers last season through the ranji. And finally acomparison between spinners and fast men.
 
Time to dump Ishant, Vinay and other rubbish bowlers.

Youngsters like Suyal and Shukla must be given a chance along with Mohit.

I would trust an attack consisting of
Mohiit/Suyal/Shukla/Mishra over the current embarrassments we have in the team.
 
I don't know why, but India strugle with talent. Their bowlers have zero talent.
I mean you just have to watch their current bowler Vinay Kumar, and you will stop asking questions about Indian bowlers. They are simply pathetic.
 
This extract is an extra from Mark Nicholas (2008):


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml;jsessionid=INYOBZ2EGZ2AXQFIQMFSFFWAVCBQ0IV0?xml=/sport/2008/01/21/scnich221.xml[/url]


'In Perth, we witnessed a torture and only a man as strong as the recipient could have held on for so long. Sharma was part Flintoff, part Courtney Walsh and part Curtly Ambrose and yes, the worn pitch encouraged him. But it was the relentlessness that both caught the eye and raised the brow. The sheer clarity of what was taking place will not be forgotten. If Sharma does not go on and on from here, there will be questions asked. The man is a born assassin'.
Ah, the Mark Nicholas jinx. The man who brought us Fortress England... :D
 
In Pak wickets are flatter than India :wahab

Heck even minnows like BD/Zim have better pacers than India

not in domestic cricket. Like i said can any indian fan give me the ranji data? best bowler, averages, etc etc?
 
i know this is a long shot, but i read an opinion a while ago about the issue being related to social psychology: batting requires patience and solidity - perhaps between india an pakistan, indian culture is more collectivist: patient and dependable, which is why they have produced so many good batsmen. completely opposite to this, bowling, the opinion stated, requires fire and passion - perhaps pakistani culture is more attuned to individualism: volatile excitement, which is why they produce much better bowlers than batsmen.

i dont have an opinion on this but i thought it was interesting.

Pakistan's First fast bowler was Imran Khan, who started the craze of fast bowling in our culture... Before Imran we had very good seam and swing bowlers (Fazal, Khan etc)... One more thing that Pakistan has, that most western countries don't is spinners, we always had very high quality spinners...

As far as batting is concerned, when we had grounds, good patient batsmen were coming from Karachi and stroke makers were coming from Lahore.... Hanif Mohammad had played one of the best innings in 130+ year of test cricket history. His 336 in WI after team was fellow on... In that innings Pakistan played 319 overs in second innings, that's also on uncovered pitches... Hanif was Symbol of patient and strong defense...

I think batting requires experience lot more than anything else, Pakistan historically plays lot less test cricket, on 6-10 test a year, where as ENG/AUS/SA play, 10-15 test a year. This makes a big difference in batting... Typical Pakistani batsmen only goes once or twice to seaming or bouncing conditions, that's why we cannot perform their.

Younis has being playing for 15 years, and has gone to SA 3 times, ENG 2 times and AUS 2 times, india once. looks at Cook, he is around since 2005 and has more tours to every country then YK in more than twice the time (Cook has played more test as well)... With that disparity how we can improve in bating??

I have less doubt in talent of our batsmen and bowlers (both pacers and spinners)... quantity of test cricket has being the main hindrance in the development of Pakistan to be the sides like AUS/SA... BTW: Pakistan has beaten ENG in ENG 3 times in last three decades... The Bounce of AUS/SA is bigger problem with our batsmen than anything else in those conditions... We don't have any bouncy wickets in Pakistan, that's why its very difficult for us to go their and win test (specially when we are going after 3-5 years)... If you loose first test, its difficult to come back...

Sorry for being side tracked... After typing all this I realize this discussion was not about Pakistan cricket ;-)
 
I've said this before on this forum. It's the domestic setup that neuters fast bowling in India. Also the cricket culture rewards the batsman and not the bowler. Also, and I'm not an expert, I would like to see the averages of India bowlers throughout a ranji season. So beginning period, middle and then end. Also if someone can comment on the average score on a typical ranji pitch /in a match, also the highest wicket takers last season through the ranji. And finally acomparison between spinners and fast men.

You might want to read this
http://www.espncricinfo.com/blogs/content/story/622341.html
 
Pakistan's First fast bowler was Imran Khan, who started the craze of fast bowling in our culture... Before Imran we had very good seam and swing bowlers (Fazal, Khan etc)... One more thing that Pakistan has, that most western countries don't is spinners, we always had very high quality spinners...

As far as batting is concerned, when we had grounds, good patient batsmen were coming from Karachi and stroke makers were coming from Lahore.... Hanif Mohammad had played one of the best innings in 130+ year of test cricket history. His 336 in WI after team was fellow on... In that innings Pakistan played 319 overs in second innings, that's also on uncovered pitches... Hanif was Symbol of patient and strong defense...

I think batting requires experience lot more than anything else, Pakistan historically plays lot less test cricket, on 6-10 test a year, where as ENG/AUS/SA play, 10-15 test a year. This makes a big difference in batting... Typical Pakistani batsmen only goes once or twice to seaming or bouncing conditions, that's why we cannot perform their.

Younis has being playing for 15 years, and has gone to SA 3 times, ENG 2 times and AUS 2 times, india once. looks at Cook, he is around since 2005 and has more tours to every country then YK in more than twice the time (Cook has played more test as well)... With that disparity how we can improve in bating??

I have less doubt in talent of our batsmen and bowlers (both pacers and spinners)... quantity of test cricket has being the main hindrance in the development of Pakistan to be the sides like AUS/SA... BTW: Pakistan has beaten ENG in ENG 3 times in last three decades... The Bounce of AUS/SA is bigger problem with our batsmen than anything else in those conditions... We don't have any bouncy wickets in Pakistan, that's why its very difficult for us to go their and win test (specially when we are going after 3-5 years)... If you loose first test, its difficult to come back...

Sorry for being side tracked... After typing all this I realize this discussion was not about Pakistan cricket ;-)

Top post!
 
It's not about careers, otherwise Ishant Sharma indeed had a longer career than Mohammad Zahid, but it's about the FAST bowlers who after a good beginning fade away in India

That 'fade away' directly correlates with the career or longevity. Can't you say that Zahid too fade away after a good beginning?
 
I personally feel.. most of our new bowlers, when they start their carriers are full length, swing the ball kinda bowlers.. then after getting selected in the national squad they're told to bowl back of a length & hit the pitch kinda deliveries by our INTERNATIONAL BOWLING COACHES .. & then they're gone :(
 
Can the current bunch of Ind fast bowlers keep their good work going? It defo seems the culture of fast bowling in Ind has taken a positive turn.
 
Can the current bunch of Ind fast bowlers keep their good work going? It defo seems the culture of fast bowling in Ind has taken a positive turn.

Bumrah for one is going very strong. By far the best pacer this series and has incredible overall stats. Bhuvi too will do his job. The real concern will be finding Shami's replacement, because that guy can get unfit anytime.
 
It’s not true any more - Ishant is playing for a decade now; Zak had close to 300 Test wickets, BK & Bumrah is going to last long unless better pacers put them to bench.
 
That was just a nice way to put it. He averaged 100 this series, and was probably the least threatening bowler from either side.

Bhuvi has played crucial part in this series, he was unlucky not to get wicket, also was crucial in holding up lower order
 
Bhuvi is a nothing bowler in LOI.
 
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That was just a nice way to put it. He averaged 100 this series, and was probably the least threatening bowler from either side.

that looks pathetic until you see Morris, Morkel and Tahir stats.. Bhuvi is used mainly in containing role in LOIs.. he won't pick many wickets
 
that looks pathetic until you see Morris, Morkel and Tahir stats.. Bhuvi is used mainly in containing role in LOIs.. he won't pick many wickets

India might be the only team in the world whose opening bowler is in a "containing role"..... or maybe the truth is Bhuvi is just a crap bowler and you are scrapping at the bottom of the barrel trying to defend him.
 
India might be the only team in the world whose opening bowler is in a "containing role"..... or maybe the truth is Bhuvi is just a crap bowler and you are scrapping at the bottom of the barrel trying to defend him.

But but Bhuvi is a good death bowler !

What’s the point of being “good at the death” if you can’t create damage upfront?
 
India might be the only team in the world whose opening bowler is in a "containing role"..... or maybe the truth is Bhuvi is just a crap bowler and you are scrapping at the bottom of the barrel trying to defend him.

Main reason Indian management is keeping Bhuvi in the loop is next WC is Eng, where he will be more than handy #GoodPlanning
 
Bhuvi's role is different, if help in pitch he will try for wickets otherwise try to contain and support strike bowlers like Bumhra, Shami ..!

Bumrah strike bowler LMAO.

When’s the last time he picked up more than 2 wickets?
 
that looks pathetic until you see Morris, Morkel and Tahir stats.. Bhuvi is used mainly in containing role in LOIs.. he won't pick many wickets

It may be true in general, but not for this series. Bhuvi failed in containing role too, had the worst ER after Ngidi.
 
Bumrah strike bowler LMAO.

When’s the last time he picked up more than 2 wickets?

India yet to produce bowlers like Waqar Wasim to pick five per...For us 2 to 3 wickets is enough rest spinners will take care !
 
The spinners won’t always be there to save you.

Boss Ind mostly wins ODI matches with mighty batting ...Now a days bowling is also helping us win ODI's (Proof 5-1 vs SA), Golden Days are ahead for Team India :shh
 
The spinners won’t always be there to save you.

You are being too cocky. Shami and Bumrah are two top ODI bowlers, have numbers as good or comparable to Hasan despite bowling on flatter decks.
 
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You are being too cocky. Shami and Bumrah are two top ODI bowlers, have numbers as good or comparable to Hasan despite bowling on flatter decks.

Shami isn’t a regular in ODI and I’m yet to see Bumrah rip through a batting lineup.
 
Shami isn’t a regular in ODI and I’m yet to see Bumrah rip through a batting lineup.

As I said already Team India bowlers role is different than Pak bowlers. More often than not Ind bowlers will have to depend 300+ scores in ODI in contrast Pak bowlers with 250 or less mostly.
 
that looks pathetic until you see Morris, Morkel and Tahir stats.. Bhuvi is used mainly in containing role in LOIs.. he won't pick many wickets

Lol didn't he give up like 40 in 5 overs the other day. So much for containing.
 
Lol didn't he give up like 40 in 5 overs the other day. So much for containing.

Saying again ..He had wonderful Test series in 2 matches he played. Had a bad ODI leg, it can happen to once No. 1 bowler Hassan Ali in NZ, why not to Bhuvi?
 
Saying again ..He had wonderful Test series in 2 matches he played. Had a bad ODI leg, it can happen to once No. 1 bowler Hassan Ali in NZ, why not to Bhuvi?

Bhuvi was never good in ODIs to begin with. A poor series for him is the normal, while for Hasan it is unusual.
 
Saying again ..He had wonderful Test series in 2 matches he played. Had a bad ODI leg, it can happen to once No. 1 bowler Hassan Ali in NZ, why not to Bhuvi?

Bad ODI leg? He average 38 in ODIs! More like bad ODI career.

Bumrah is pretty good though.
 
India might be the only team in the world whose opening bowler is in a "containing role"..... or maybe the truth is Bhuvi is just a crap bowler and you are scrapping at the bottom of the barrel trying to defend him.

Bhuvi is a containing bowler and thats why playing ahead of Shami who is a wicket taking one.
 
Saying again ..He had wonderful Test series in 2 matches he played. Had a bad ODI leg, it can happen to once No. 1 bowler Hassan Ali in NZ, why not to Bhuvi?

Although Bhuvi was brilliant at the death in the CT final. I'll give him that. He didn't concede one boundary to Pakistan's best hitter- Imad Wasim.
 
Although Bhuvi was brilliant at the death in the CT final. I'll give him that. He didn't concede one boundary to Pakistan's best hitter- Imad Wasim.

He got smacked around by Hafeez. Enough said
 
Bad ODI leg? He average 38 in ODIs! More like bad ODI career.

Bumrah is pretty good though.

Yea agreed, as I said in earlier post. Bhuvi is persisted mainly for WC'19 in mind, he will make good impact in Eng like Amir does mostly in Eng.
 
Shami isn’t a regular in ODI and I’m yet to see Bumrah rip through a batting lineup.

A strike bowler needs to strike, and anyone with a SR of under 30 certainly qualifies to be categorized as one. If ripping through lineups is how we defined a Strike bowler, then Ishant Sharma and Wahab Riaz would be the pinnacle of fast bowling in Asia.
 
True. But who last for long time nowadays anyway.

Which pak bowler has lasted as long as Wasim and Waqar?

Asking for a friend.
 
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