BoomBoomCricket
First Class Captain
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2009
- Runs
- 5,834
- Post of the Week
- 2
It was a pleasure watching Shafiq batting along side experienced Misbah Ul Haq. He is really developing under his wings and guidance.
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What on earth does Azhar Ali have todo with this? He's a newcomer who hasn't even cemented his spot in the TEST side - where strike rotation isn't as important as in LOIs - and has ALOT to learn; whereas, Misbah, is supposed to be a 'senior' in ALL formats guiding the youngsters - he himself should've put up a better show than what he did in the semi final, but instead bottled it when it mattered most.
Anchor? These guys don't go at strike rates of 60.. they play fluent innings and get a move on.. they don't think of the just the first and last 10 overs.. they think about the whole 50 overs and how to maximize runs instead of just waiting for the 3rd batting powerplay.
Hussey has come in many crisis situations at 5 and has led his team to victory and thats why he is Mr.Cricket.
And someone like Misbah can be never compared to him as I think you did earlier.
It's so unfair that people are targeting Misbah because of one match. He is reliable middle order batsman and very consistent.
If people are willing to show leniency to Gul for his one poor performance, then why not Misbah too. After all, he is the reason that revived middle order batting line ever since the Pak-SA series.
because Gul has delivered in many big games...read T20 WCs (was the leading wicket taker in 2007 and 2009), and up until the SF he was also having a phenomenal WC...just had an off-day where he just couldn't get anything going his way even after giving his 100% effort and also for the fact that his poor day didn't really hurt our chances of winning as we restricted India to 260 on a 300+ pitch, especially after the start they got...
but it was different for Misbah...all that was required from him was to keep the scoreboard moving by simply playing risk free cricket by taking 1s and 2s...how hard can it be? instead he had no intention of even trying to do that as a result tht put pressure on his partners and they lost their wickets...and by the time Misbah woke up, it was 2 late...match was already lost when Afridi got out...
Honestly Maaz, you should stop trying to defend Misbah's SF innings now. He played badly in that loss but it doesn't mean he is not a solid player.
with the usual pcb policy they will drop him 6 months before the next world cup.
We need an experinced-campaigner, but with Misbah USUALLY dead-batting the ball is that really something youngsters should learn?
In my opinion Malik n Yousuf were two solid middle over batsmen who knew how to pick the ones n twos and hit the odd boundary. Misbah doesn't always realize the value of middle overs where you should be milking the runs rather then wasting valuable balls.
Interesting, Misbah has much better ODI career stats than YK.
Matches won and lost..... when Misbah has played.
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...=2;template=results;type=batting;view=innings
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...=1;template=results;type=batting;view=innings
1) He has been in a winning side 48 out of his 72 innings...
2) Look at each of the scorecards (excluding WC Semi) where he was playing when we lost.... and then look at his indivdial contribution!
I think this HAS to silence ANY doubters?
MISBAH is one of the FEW players in the PAK team that has a BRAIN....
ie he is NOT retarted.
In the WC our field positioning and planning was BRILLIANT.....
Do you really think that AFRIDI was behind all this?
There are so many INTANGIBLE benefits to having a SMART person in your team....
I am 100% behind his thought process in the Semi - He FAILED in executing the PLAN!
Re T20 loss.... people remember that STUPID shot... but FORGET the rescue job in getting us to THAT point!
MISBAH is one of the FEW players in the PAK team that has a BRAIN....
ie he is NOT retarted.
In the WC our field positioning and planning was BRILLIANT.....
Do you really think that AFRIDI was behind all this?
There are so many INTANGIBLE benefits to having a SMART person in your team....
I am 100% behind his thought process in the Semi - He FAILED in executing the PLAN!
Re T20 loss.... people remember that STUPID shot... but FORGET the rescue job in getting us to THAT point!
1) The planning and field positioning WAS EXCELLENT for a change....
Why do I think that Misbah was responsible? Cos Afridi is brainless and was about to be removed from captaincy... the only reason he stayed instead of Misbah was if he allowed Misbah more influence and also if he didn't shout at other players as much....
^
I think your response is a bit unfair.....
You are answering the points with points that are already acknowledged by all parties... Further these points dont even actually answer the points I raised above
I am 100% behind his thought process in the Semi - He FAILED in executing the PLAN!
And how exactly do you know Afridi was retained captain because he allowed Misbah "more influence"?
If planning and fields work, it is somebody else planning and doing it because Afridi is well, brainless.
If it is bad, then let's blame Afridi because yeah, he's brainless.
Win-win situation for you, eh?
I wonder how though. See below:
If he FAILED in executing the plan, how does it make him a smart person/ player?
Kamran Akmal "plans" to take stunning catches but doesn't quite execute the plan. Would you call him smart and talk of the intangible benefits of having a smart person in your team?
Because it is clear to see... if you are looking....
when Afridi has the free reign he bites the ball and scuffs the pitch and runs around like he is high on something....
He was about to be dropped as captain cos players were unhappy with his aggressive nature... Misbah would have taken over.... but they must have come to some sort of agreement for the sake of PAK cricket...
PS: I think Afridi is a brilliant ODI player too... He brings loads to the side and as a Captain has done really well....
He is aggressive... He is no nonsense.... He is a Pathan.... You need an Alpha Male to control the rabble that is the PAK team... he provides that...
BUT NO ONE CAN DENY he is brainless!
PLUS from MISBAH captaining the TEST and DOMESTIC teams you can see that he has a brain.....
You can tell when MISBAH talks about cricket... You can tell from the way he builds an innings...
Re balming Afridi for being brainless....
I have blamed Misbah for plenty too....
For me its WIN WIN when PAK win!
If you succeed plenty of times and fail on some occasions... then ist this ok...?
Have a look at post 175 which shows when he is succeeded... and when he has failed.....
So because Misbah captains well in domestic and tests, he sure must have a role to play in Afridi's ODI captaincy?
lolwut?
What next? Afridi took 21 wicket in the World Cup because Misbah controlled his brain while Afridi was bowling?![]()
My post was in response to your appraisal of his innings at Mohali: about the planning being right [thereby proving he is a smart cricketer] even though the execution wasn't anywhere near what it should have been.
Don't get his career stats into the picture for defending what was the most pathetic innings by a Pakistani batsman in recent times.
Again you are being unfair...
I dont know if its deliberate or not?
Its a combination of all of the things I said above rather than the one you are picking out...
Its extremely difficult to attribute Misbah or anyone else for making AFRIDI take 21 wickets... so its not even worth debating...
Its better to say that AFRIDI took the 21 wickets off his own back.... which he did...
But when it comes to field placings and general planning... there is NO WAY you can credit AFRIDI cos you know what AFRIDIs brain is like....
That is not my hypothesis...
My hypothesis is that I trust that the plan in the semi was ok given how well he has planned previously in similar circmstances... and therefore it must have been the execution that was BAD.
You have to look at his history to be able to make that claim...
If all you look at is THAT innings.... then I can see how you come to your conclusion.... but life isnt that simple.
Afridi is just brainless when it comes to his batting. At everything else, especially his bowling, he is an astoundingly good thinker.
Misbah, YK and the other seniors may have helped him with the field settings [if at all] but attributing everything good to Misbah alone is just daft.
If he doesn't execute the plan, how is he a smart operator?![]()
Afridi is brainless with more than his batting.... He is an astoundingly good player (esp bowling)... but not thinker...
PS: I dont attribute everything good to Misbah.... But MISBAH is definitely one of the few players that has a BRAIN - we shouldnt waste that while we have it....
This is a fantastic post on why Misbahis still in the team.A lot of people have been pushing for Misbah's exclusion from this format, however there is plenty of logic as to why Misbah is still in the ODI team which people are badly failing to consider. Reasons include:
1) Merit: First and foremost he was the leading run scorer in the ODI series against New Zealand and he was also the leading ODI run scorer for Pakistan in the 2011 ICC CWC. He has scored 5 half centuries in his last 11 innings. On ODI form alone his place cannot be questioned by any stretch of the imagination.
2) He has the Test Captaincy firmly in his hands. It always helps when the "real captain" or "major captain" of the national team is in and around the camp for the LO formats so he can keep a close eye on proceedings and share his vision, views and expertise with the management and LO captain. Therefore he should still play ODIs and T20s for however longer he remains captain of the Test team which should by another 2 years as he is building a strong looking side which is producing the desired outcomes.
3) Younis and Misbah were two class acts in whatever format they plan in and making drastic wholesale changes at once is not really the best way forward. You have to take one step at a time and keep a blend of experience and youth. You cannot really axe Younis Khan and Misbah Ul Haq simultaneously just like that. One needs to have at least one experienced batsmen around to help groom and encourage the youngsters and as Misbah has the leadership and superior form in his favour he unquestionably gets priority over Younis at the moment as far this role is concerned.
4) By playing in the LO formats it will help him keep his form, fitness and shape ahead of the Test Series which proceeds and which matters the most. A captain's performance and form accounts for a lot. Hence, if he is playing ODIs it could help the Test team gain as well. Tests have priority in a professional cricketing establishment.
5) Will help him adapt to the conditions ahead of the series which matters most. This should put him in good stead to deliver where and when it matters and look at some new faces from close up which he might be interested in seeing in his Test side for example.
6) Pakistan will struggle to bat 50 overs without an experienced soild anchor role batsmen in the middle order. This is the basic principle of ODI cricket, batting out your overs!
7) He is the Mr Cricket of Pakistan i.e. Mike Hussey of Australia who has a commanding presence at the crease and reads match situations exceedingly well and handles proceedings out there in the middle with a sense of authority, class and expertise. Misbah also has those capabilities as he has demonstrated in his relatively late and short career. Has Hussey retired from LO cricket? He is 35 after all. This is an example to refer to.
8) If a player is succeeding in Test Cricket he is more than good enough to succeed in relatively easier formats. Just a concept which tends to work out and more often than not is the reality.
Some thoughts for consideration here, but to be honest Misbah was never really in serious contention to be axed from the ODI team in the first place and was probably even going to end up leading the side in all formats during the WI tour when Afridi decided he wanted to take rest and who knows maybe Misbah will end up captaining Pakistan in the 2012 ICC WT20 or something of the sort if Afridi is banned or fined as he has been in the past. Misbah certainly has the credentials to stand in whenever needed and do a top job. He is still in the LO side and good to see if you consider the situation with a sense of perspective and clarity.
Lets say for arguments sake....
If someone executes a plan 9/10 when the average is 7/10.... can he be a smart operator?
Sorry to break it to you but all good happening in Pakistan cricket isn't because of Misbah.
If the field placing is good, it is because Misbah is compensating for Afridi's brainlessness.
If the field placement is bad, then Afridi is just being himself.
Based on what? Your simple theory that Afridi is brainless and Misbah is well, smart; so all good things will be because of Misbah and all bad because of Afridi.![]()
When has Misbah executed a plan 9/10 times?
His slow innings have stalled the team's innings a lot of times. More times than not, it requires some special effort from one or two players in the side to make up for Misbah's go-slow approach.
He is the Mr Cricket of Pakistan i.e. Mike Hussey of Australia who has a commanding presence at the crease and reads match situations exceedingly well and handles proceedings out there in the middle with a sense of authority, class and expertise. Misbah also has those capabilities as he has demonstrated in his relatively late and short career. Has Hussey retired from LO cricket? He is 35 after all. This is an example to refer to.
Its never that black and white from an execution perspective... becasue there are are many variables...
BUT
What is Black and white....
AFRIDI = Brainless
MISBAH = Brain
Not quite. Unless you want to imagine it is.
I think we will have to agree to disagree...
I think we need both Afridi and Misbah for now if we want to be a success.
![]()
Why has this thead turned intoVs
battleground?
Ideally, I wouldn't want Misbah in LOIs. Somebody like a Shafiq would be a much better option.
In tests, he is good as tests suit his style of play.
Why has this thead turned intoVs
battleground?
Afridi has won 16/30 ODIs as captain overall.
When Misbah has played with him.... Afridi has won 12/17 ODIs as captain....
Its better for Afridi and Pak when Misbah plays with him... whether he helps him or not.
In those 17 matches, Misbah has played a match winning role in 3 games [93* Vs NZ, 83* Vs SL and 73* Vs WI].
In two other games [against minnows] he's played a substantial role [37 Vs Canada and 65 Vs Kenya].
Other than that, there's not too much to draw confidence from.
Not quite the reason why Afridi as captain won 12 of those 17 ODIs?
Not the reason... but at least a big contributor?
Both with the bat and the thinking?
If he plays a major role in 3/17 games, he is a big contributor? Plus, two of those three games had big contributions from other players too [SL and WI].
The thinking part is your assumption. Let's go by facts alone.
It's 'choke', 'choking', and 'choked'. Please get it right.Vast majority of oppositions would have no problem with Misbah ul Haq being selected for Pakistan and actually being at the batting striking end knowing full well his style of play and history of chocking.
Enough said.
And my intention isn't to be condescending. It was just getting a little irritating.It's 'choke', 'choking', and 'choked'. Please get it right.
He averaged 51 during that period.... the TEAM relied on both AFRIDI and MISBAH..... and OTHERS!
3/17?
The thinking part is more obvious than anything else!
Assume a strike rate of 75-80... In what percentage of innings would you expect Misbah to get a score greater than 20?
Average of 51 and three match winning knocks, two of which had other players in major roles.
3/17 matches where he's made a big impact. Otherwise - nothing!
The thinking part is an assumption like I said. No basis or facts to back that up. Yeah, things like "Afridi is brainless, ya know. So it's all Misbah thinking and setting fields" isn't logic!
I have a question for you.
SR of 75-80 is a bit too much to expect from Misbah.
Plus why assume when you have 17 innings to look at. Under Afridi the captain, Misbah has played 3 match winning knocks and played a good hand in two others. The rest, he's done zero.
How is he a big player?!
1) Merit: First and foremost he was the leading run scorer in the ODI series against New Zealand and he was also the leading ODI run scorer for Pakistan in the 2011 ICC CWC. He has scored 5 half centuries in his last 11 innings. On ODI form alone his place cannot be questioned by any stretch of the imagination.
2) He has the Test Captaincy firmly in his hands. It always helps when the \"real captain\" or \"major captain\" of the national team is in and around the camp for the LO formats so he can keep a close eye on proceedings and share his vision, views and expertise with the management and LO captain. Therefore he should still play ODIs and T20s for however longer he remains captain of the Test team which should by another 2 years as he is building a strong looking side which is producing the desired outcomes.
3) Younis and Misbah were two class acts in whatever format they plan in and making drastic wholesale changes at once is not really the best way forward. You have to take one step at a time and keep a blend of experience and youth. You cannot really axe Younis Khan and Misbah Ul Haq simultaneously just like that. One needs to have at least one experienced batsmen around to help groom and encourage the youngsters and as Misbah has the leadership and superior form in his favour he unquestionably gets priority over Younis at the moment as far this role is concerned.
4) By playing in the LO formats it will help him keep his form, fitness and shape ahead of the Test Series which proceeds and which matters the most. A captains performance and form accounts for a lot. Hence, if he is playing ODIs it could help the Test team gain as well. Tests have priority in a professional cricketing establishment.
5) Will help him adapt to the conditions ahead of the series which matters most. This should put him in good stead to deliver where and when it matters and look at some new faces from close up which he might be interested in seeing in his Test side for example.
6) Pakistan will struggle to bat 50 overs without an experienced soild anchor role batsmen in the middle order. This is the basic principle of ODI cricket, batting out your overs!
7) He is the Mr Cricket of Pakistan i.e. Mike Hussey of Australia who has a commanding presence at the crease and reads match situations exceedingly well and handles proceedings out there in the middle with a sense of authority, class and expertise. Misbah also has those capabilities as he has demonstrated in his relatively late and short career. Has Hussey retired from LO cricket? He is 35 after all. This is an example to refer to.
8) If a player is succeeding in Test Cricket he is more than good enough to succeed in relatively easier formats. Just a concept which tends to work out and more often than not is the reality.
Some thoughts for consideration here, but to be honest Misbah was never really in serious contention to be axed from the ODI team in the first place and was probably even going to end up leading the side in all formats during the WI tour when Afridi decided he wanted to take rest and who knows maybe Misbah will end up captaining Pakistan in the 2012 ICC WT20 or something of the sort if Afridi is banned or fined as he has been in the past. Misbah certainly has the credentials to stand in whenever needed and do a top job. He is still in the LO side and good to see if you consider the situation with a sense of perspective and clarity.
That is history now. On basis of his performance in new zealand, he did deserve to go to the world cup, which he did. End of.
What a logic! Dude, we are talking about Pakistan team. Since when did sharing views, expertise etc etc became so important for them?
He should play LOIs because he is our Test captain.
I will repeat what I said in my previous post, Misbah should be the last person to groom young batsmen in one day and t20 cricket! We do not want talented youngsters to approach the LOIs like Misbah does.
So all international cricketers who ONLY play Test cricket are not fit? Again, what a logic!
So how do other international cricketers who ONLY play Test cricket adapt to the conditions ahead of the series?
With Misbah, Pakistan will surely bat 50 overs and end up with a score that the opposition would chase down in 35 overs. so much for the anchor role. huh
That cracked me up!!!I hope Hussey does not visit pakpassion!! Would turn into another zulqarnain if he reads this)
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Mate you do know Hussey is a finisher, no?
Einstein, each format is different and has different requirements. Say for example, there is a factor called strike rotation. Although it is vital for success in any format, it is not something compulsory if you are to play test cricket. You can survive in test cricket even if you are not good at it. on the other hand, if cannot rotate strike, you just cannot play LOIs. You can never be a consistent performer at LOIs without this factor. You will be a miss or hit.. but not someone who others can count on.
All in all, all formats have different prerequisites. Whilst there are players who do possess the basic elements for every format, there are many others who are good in one format but awful in other formats.
Your real batsmen performs when needed most.... end of story.Example. When I need a doctor to save my life, I need him right there and then..
I don't need one when I'm doing perfectly fine..
A cheesy analogy but makes sense.
Pakistan nation needed Misbah to see us through, but he didn't.
We don't need him bashing lower-ranked teams to boost his avg.
Misbah once more shows why he is the WALL and BRAIN of Pakistan's batting. He sees it through again.
Pakistan win by 7 wickets. Shehzad n Misbah (NO yet again) the top scorers. 2-0 it is. Barbados next.
You could clearly see the difference Misbah made out there in the middle when he came into bat in grooming the youngster. Shehzad was struggling and looking scratchy in the middle overs but once more the man with the composure, coolness and guidance helped him out & got the best out of him. Individually yet another NO for Misbah in run chases. He is a "finisher."
2 catches today as well including a stunner in slip. As ever safe as houses with the "bucket hands."