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Would you vote for BJP in 2024?

MP2011 said:
Frame your argument? Do you even know what this means? You termed all Delhites caring just for freebies. You obviously conveniently ignored the fact what kind of poisonous and downright pathetic campaign run by mota bhai and his cohorts in Delhi.
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And caring for freebies is considered to be a bad thing? I pointed out Free giveaways was also a driving force in decision making. I’m not arguing about morality of that decision.
 
cricketjoshila said:
Lol. You do not add voting percentage of all 3 parties and then say they will win. Else the MGB would have won UP. They lost.

BJP fought only 150 odd seats and won 105. It will be near impossible to win a majority Of 145 out of 150 odd seats they fought.

Congress has become the 4th party in Maha and its voteshare is slipping.So is SS. Only NCP has managed to hold.

A 3 v 1 election will see BJP vote share consolidating like in UP while the other 3 will fight on seat sharing and rebels.
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Stop with the ***** speak you might support bjp i have always considered you an intelligent poster here, vote share, 70% strike rate and stuff only matters if you win. If you know anyone with any understanding of maharashtra politics ask them whether bjp under performed or not.

They put in money like it was nobody's business in the maharashtra election, they really hurt ncp pre election, poaching their leaders, trying their best to cut off any source of money congress and ncp got via the co-operatives they control, their whole plan was to get around 130 seats, 5-10 independents and a weakened sena who they expected or rather made sure wouldn't cross 40-45 meant unopposed rule from fadnavis.

None of that panned out, the internal bickering has already started as the bjp leaders fadnavis tried to put down in his first term are looking to get even and the ncp leaders he poached are facing internal revolts given bjp local members don't see the gains they were promised. Modi-shah tried to create a modi in maharashtra, they just forgot that maharashtra isn't like most other states, 1 man show never works here. Even at the hieght of modi wave, bjp could not get 1 party government here. Its always been live and let live in maharashtra.
 
Fadnavis-Varsha are still sore at losing MH CMship as if its their right. Not too different from Gandhis...
 
andy0204 said:
Funny thing you and Romalli rotti are not from India,
[MENTION=134809]sensible-indian-fan[/MENTION] you are right these people act like they know everything.
Absolute wannabes.
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lol....

Manmohan "mute" Singh - Well thought out criticism.

As if Modi hasn't been mute in press conferences. And what exactly has he achieved with his "intellectual" abilities. lol.

I believe Romalli Rotti doesn't have much love for BJP but his hatred for Sonia & co is sooo intense (understandable) that it prompts him to support anyone who is against them. Too bad he isn't seeing BJP for the frauds they are.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
As if Modi hasn't been mute in press conferences. And what exactly has he achieved with his "intellectual" abilities. lol.
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This is news to me!

When was the last time 56" actually faced a press conference or given 1-1 interview to someone who isn't his lapdog?

Unlike that coward, Rahul (however dim he may be) does regular press conferences even if he is made fun of regularly.
 
The only thing I supported BJP was during the Balakot saga (it was the right move imho).

And we all know what happened.

I am STILL FUMING at what they did.

Anti-national traitors who keeps peddling lies via their media.

Tarnished the whole reputation of India.

And where is the enquiry of how someone brought in 40kg of explosives in a heavily militarized zone AFTER the saga (it made sense to focus on the task in hand but after its done, you have to look for root causes)?

Nothing.

And these idiots call themselves as patriots.
 
jagatk said:
Stop with the ***** speak you might support bjp i have always considered you an intelligent poster here, vote share, 70% strike rate and stuff only matters if you win. If you know anyone with any understanding of maharashtra politics ask them whether bjp under performed or not.

They put in money like it was nobody's business in the maharashtra election, they really hurt ncp pre election, poaching their leaders, trying their best to cut off any source of money congress and ncp got via the co-operatives they control, their whole plan was to get around 130 seats, 5-10 independents and a weakened sena who they expected or rather made sure wouldn't cross 40-45 meant unopposed rule from fadnavis.

None of that panned out, the internal bickering has already started as the bjp leaders fadnavis tried to put down in his first term are looking to get even and the ncp leaders he poached are facing internal revolts given bjp local members don't see the gains they were promised. Modi-shah tried to create a modi in maharashtra, they just forgot that maharashtra isn't like most other states, 1 man show never works here. Even at the hieght of modi wave, bjp could not get 1 party government here. Its always been live and let live in maharashtra.
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You are talking out of your backside.

Bjp or any party cannot win 130 seats if they fight 152 seats. Its simply not possible in a big state like Maha.

NDA fought the Elections in 2019 and won majority. Sena wanted the CM seat, esp AUT and thats why they quit the alliance. They rode on Modi's shoulders,asked votes againist cong and ncp and then joined them.

Bjp didnot under perform, they gave too many seats to an ally who didnt deserve that many seats.

The bickering is in the Aghadi, where Sena cadres and locsl leaders are suddenly having to take orders from Ncp or congress.

On top of that Thackrey lost his family's image when AUT went to Delhi to Sonia.
 
Nirmala Sitharaman our FREAKING DEFENCE MINISTER said this:

"Pakistan never accepts when their soldiers are killed. The F-16 was knocked down by us. The pilot was beaten up by local villagers and probably later died in hospital," she said explaining the sequence of events when Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman ejected from his fighter jet and landed in Pakistani territory after bringing down the Pakistan Air Force fighter jet.
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When I read this, my heart sank.

It's a debunked claim and a defence minister is peddling it.

This isn't to say Pakistan have been entirely truthful in the saga (have a list of lies they peddled) but I am concerned about India mainly.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Nirmala Sitharaman our FREAKING DEFENCE MINISTER said this:



When I read this, my heart sank.

It's a debunked claim and a defence minister is peddling it.

This isn't to say Pakistan have been entirely truthful in the saga (have a list of lies they peddled) but I am concerned about India mainly.
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Who debunked it? You?

The entire IAF stands by this claim. And the govt stands by what IAF said.

Politics is one thing, but have some shame telling that IAF is lying.
 
And to think, so many gullible souls came under 56" influence and surrendered their LPG subsidies for that flop and another of his fake projects, Ujjwala scheme.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
And where is the enquiry of how someone brought in 40kg of explosives in a heavily militarized zone AFTER the saga (it made sense to focus on the task in hand but after its done, you have to look for root causes)?

Nothing.

And these idiots call themselves as patriots.
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How could you expect a probe in this freaking act of treason when it'll directly implicate 56" & Nirmala?
 
cricketjoshila said:
Who debunked it? You?

The entire IAF stands by this claim. And the govt stands by what IAF said.

Politics is one thing, but have some shame telling that IAF is lying.
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Ok since the esteemed defence minister said it, there must be proof. Show it.

Entire nuetral media laughed off our claims.

Didn't our own machinery mislead people about us shooting down our choppers and WAITED for the election results

How can you even say with a straight face that I am shameless?

It's ok.

Show proof.
 
https://www.newslaundry.com/2019/03/05/why-claims-about-the-paf-pilots-lynching-dont-add-up

Mar 5, 2019, 11:09 AM
The report of a Pakistan Air Force (PAF) pilot being lynched to death by his own countrymen sounded straight out of a movie script. Turns out the report—based on a singular Facebook post—may have very well been a result of the Facebook post’s writer’s imagination.

On March 2, a Firstpost report by Praveen Swami stated that “Pakistan Air Force Wing Commander Shahzaz-ud-Din, the F-16 pilot shot down in a dogfight over the Nowshera sector, is reported to have been lynched by a mob who mistook him for an Indian airman”.

On March 1, a day before the Firstpost report was published, a London-based lawyer, Khalid Umar, had posted the exact same details of the purported killing of a PAF pilot on Facebook. The Firstpost report cited Umar as a source stating that he [Umar] had received this information “privately, from individuals related to the F-16 pilot’s family”.

Like the Firstpost report, Umar identified the PAF pilot as Shahzaz-ud-Din and stated that his father Waseem-ud-Din is an Air Marshal of the Pakistan Air Force. Comparing Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman and Shahzaz-ud-Din’s plight, the London-based lawyer also wrote: “Two sons of Air Marshals fought it out mid-air up in the skies…Wg Cdr Abhinandan (Ind) in MiG and now late Wg Cdr Shahzaz-ud-Din (Pak) in F-16. Both fell from the skies, one could not survive.”

Why claims about the PAF pilot’s lynching don’t add up

Umar said Shahzaz-ud-Din, who had ejected in Pakistan-occupied Jammu and Kashmir, was “lynched (beaten mercilessly, nearly to death) by the mob who took him as a fallen Indian”. On his identification as “our own man”, the PAF pilot was taken to a hospital. He did not survive, Umar wrote: “Nothing can be more heartbreaking than the untimely termination of a young life. My heartfelt condolences to the family of Shahzaz.”

Fact or fiction: Khalid Umar’s U-turn

Apart from Swami’s report for Firstpost, other media publications also reported on Shahzaz-ud-Din’s death. They cited either Umar’s post as a source or “media reports”. The same goes for social media posts that popped up on the pilot.

On March 2, Newslaundry contacted Umar by telephone to verify his claims relating to the PAF pilot’s death. Umar claimed he had received information relating to the PAF pilot’s death “not from a single source but from multiple PAF sources”. He said, “My sources in PAF informed me that the F-16 was flown by Shahzaz-ud-Din. It was shot down by MiG 21 of the Indian Air Force in aerial combat.” He added that authorities would “never accept this” and that they had “even denied using F-16” to breach the Indian airspace.

Umar told Newslaundry that Shahzaz-ud-Din was one of three sons of Air Marshal Waseem-ud-Din, who had retired from the PAF. He claimed that apart from multiple PAF sources, this was also confirmed to him by Air Marshal Waseem-ud-Din’s family.


However, Newslaundry’s investigation proves these claims to be false. When we asked Umar about it, his responses were nothing short of a U-turn.


Here’s what our investigation revealed: Air Marshal Waseem-ud-Din has two sons, not three. Neither of them is in the PAF. When Newslaundry brought this up with Umar, he said it “doesn’t matter” who was in the aircraft: “It doesn’t matter whether it was some Abbas or some Shahzaz. But someone definitely was on it.”

Umar also stated that in a military press conference held by Indian military officials, high-ranking representatives of the three armed services had said that an F-16 aircraft had been shot down. “They are saying a fact and definitely somebody must be on the aircraft and ejected out of it. It doesn’t matter who was in the aircraft, an aircraft has been shot down and pilots have ejected out of it. You should find about them,” he told Newslaundry.

Newslaundry’s investigation

So, the single source for news reports on the PAF pilot’s death and background has been Umar’s post, which identified the pilot as “Shahzaz-ud-Din”. Newslaundry’s investigation shows that Air Marshal Waseem ud-Din has two sons named Waqar-ud-Din and Aleem-ud-Din. In this picture found on Facebook, Air Marshal Waseem-ud-Din stands with his two sons.

Why claims about the PAF pilot’s lynching don’t add up
The photo of the Air Marshal and his two sons.

According to their Facebook profiles, both sons live in the UK. Aleem-ud-Din studies at Royal Holloway, University of London. He previously worked with companies like Telenor—as CLM planning and design officer and pricing executive for four years, till 2018—and Starcom Worldwide in Pakistan. He did his Bachelor’s degree in economics from the National University of Sciences and Technology.

Why claims about the PAF pilot’s lynching don’t add up
A screenshot of Aleem-ud-Din’s LinkedIn profile.

The Air Marshal’s other son, Waqar-ud-Din, lives in Warwickshire, according to documents accessed by Newslaundry. Since September 2015, he’s been working as a system engineer at Jaguar Land Rover in Gaydon in Warwickshire. Before joining Jaguar Land Rover, he worked with Tetra Pack in Lahore as a field service engineer and project engineer for more than three years.

Waqar-ud-Din graduated from Pakistan’s Ghulam Ishaq Khan Institute of Engineering Sciences and Technology. He did his Master’s degree in energy and power engineering from the University of Warwick. His job record shows that he was never in the Pakistan Air Force.

Why claims about the PAF pilot’s lynching don’t add up
A screenshot of Waqar-ud-Din’s LinkedIn profile.

These details were confirmed by several sources as well. One of them is Taha Siddiqui, an award-winning exiled Pakistani journalist and founder of SAFE newsrooms, a digital platform documenting media censorship in South Asia. He told Newslaundry: “I have spoken to some people who are very close friends of Air Marshal Waseem-ud-Din’s family and they have informed me that both his sons are alive and live out of the country.”

Siddiqui said: “They told me that it’s is a fake story.”

Siddiqui, who has been critical of Pakistani Army’s media censorship in Pakistan, currently lives in Paris. He has been living in exile following Pakistani Army’s failed attempt to abduct him. He said, “I have been informed by two of my PAF sources that no one has been killed and both airplanes—F-16 and JF-17—were used. Inventory remains accounted for so it’s unlikely they lost any planes or anyone was killed.”

Siddiqui added that the Pakistani media is heavily controlled by the military. “The Pakistan military might feel if they say that someone from their side is killed, then they will lose the higher ground they are currently on. But as per the information provided by people close to the family and reliable sources in PAF, this seems to be a fake story.”

A family friend of Air Marshal Waseem-ud-Din also posted on social media that the Air Marshal has only two sons and they are not in the Pakistan Air Force. The Dubai-based family friend tagged the Air Marshal’s wife in the post. She wrote: “Noreen and Waseem-ud-Din have two sons none named Shahzaz or whatever. And MA they are alive and well.”

Why claims about the PAF pilot’s lynching don’t add up
The family friend’s Facebook post.

Newslaundry tried contacting Waqar-ud-Din and Aleem-ud-Din through social media. This story will be updated if and when they respond.

A photograph has also been doing the rounds on social media of “Wing Commander Shahzaz-ud-Din”. Newslaundry found pictures of a joint air force training between China and Pakistan which took place in October 2015 at China’s Yinchuan air base. One of the photos shows Chinese and Pakistani Air Force pilots standing in a group photo, while another is captioned “Pakistani fighter pilot before Chinese Su-30”.

There’s no mention of Wing Commander Shahzaz-ud-Din, but the photo has been circulated on social media claiming to a picture of the “fallen” PAF pilot. Yet this photo is of Group Captain Agha Mehar, a pilot with the PAF. Mehar has approached several senior journalists in Pakistan pointing out Indian media’s misuse of his photo.

Why claims about the PAF pilot’s lynching don’t add up
The photo of Group Captain Agha Mehar misidentified as Shahzad-ud-Din.

Newslaundry confirmed Mehar’s identity with Pakistani journalists. Salman Masood, editor of The Nation, an English daily in Islamabad, told Newslaundry: “According to my official sources, the picture of the pilot which is being circulated as the F-16 pilot is a picture of Group Captain Agha Mehar, who has never flown an F-16 in his career.”

The same photograph is used in this blog, which details Shahzad-ud-Din’s “martyrdom” on February 27, using the same inaccuracies found in Khalid Umar’s Facebook post.
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Indian media.

They went DIRECTLY to the source.

Debunked.

:)))

What do we do with the anti nationals man?

I am supposed to accept 1+1 = 3 to prove patriotism?

Thanks...I would rather be an anti-national. :)
 
How can a defense minister make a statement without having FULL proof or confirmation about it from verified sources?

Just answer that please.
 
The question is NOT whether an F16 was shot or not.

It was about making claims based on random stories.

As for F16 being shot down, didn't a neutral agency debunk that too?

They checked USA F16 + Jordanian F16. :))

---

Let's leave this aside.

How can we make claims about pilot death without knowing stuff?
 
cricketjoshila said:
Show me where IAF claimed the name of the pilot shot down.
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So no proof per se?

Show me one statement where I said IAF lied?

I siad govt were anti national traitors.

They control IAF.

They control the messaging.

Why was the chopper shoot down hidden if the govt is so forthcoming?
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
What happened to the enquiry?

Any updates on how 40 kg were brought into Pulwama?

Answers please. :)
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If it were brought from other side of the border/loc the role of indian security personnels who are involved in cross border drug smuggling can be suspected
 
cricketjoshila said:
Show me where IAF claimed the name of the pilot shot down.
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That's all you got left.

Official IAF claim while every govt claim was debunked.

As for IAF, I dunno whether F16 was shot or not (there is enough mystery shrouded on that with Ghafoor lying about a pilot) but a neutral source confirmed no F16s were down.
 
cricketjoshila said:
Who debunked it? You?

The entire IAF stands by this claim. And the govt stands by what IAF said.

Politics is one thing, but have some shame telling that IAF is lying.
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Every neutral analyst as well as the Relevant US authorities when the F-16 count was done debunk this claim.

Even Christine fair who has a permanent hard on for india says this claim is false.
 
IAF claims:

1. We hit the targets in Balakot.

Neutral sources say we missed.

2. We downed an F16.

Nuetral source said no.

---

That's all I have about IAF claims till now.

As for govt claim....lol they were peddling lies non stop.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
So no proof per se?

Show me one statement where I said IAF lied?

I siad govt were anti national traitors.

They control IAF.

They control the messaging.

Why was the chopper shoot down hidden if the govt is so forthcoming?
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Indian armed forces are not known to make statement as per the govt.

Hidden? A court of inquiry was established immediately and its report was awaited and then told to the media. Hiding would mean no court of inquiry.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
IAF claims:

1. We hit the targets in Balakot.

Neutral sources say we missed.

2. We downed an F16.

Nuetral source said no.

---

That's all I have about IAF claims till now.

As for govt claim....lol they were peddling lies non stop.
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Also didn’t india shoot down it’s own helicopter and for a while was claiming it was pakistani.

Anyways it was clear election ploy to act ignorant.

Lol even modi said the outcome would have been different and favorable to India if Rafael jets had been acquired earlier. So it means it really wasn’t favorable now was it.

Also I agree with you. Not enough questions are asked how the heck was several dozen kilograms of explosives smuggled into the most militarized zone in the world.

Seeing from outside, modi has politicized India’s military which was never the case before and was actually a genuine source of pride in comparison to what happens in Pakistan. Before the current one I didn’t even know the name of any high ranking Indian military officers let alone read statements from them every month
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
IAF claims:

1. We hit the targets in Balakot.

Neutral sources say we missed.

2. We downed an F16.

Nuetral source said no.

---

That's all I have about IAF claims till now.

As for govt claim....lol they were peddling lies non stop.
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1. No neutral source was given access to that spot by pakistan for over a month.

2. Neutral source said we didnt release evidence of F16 shot down.

No one is going to release classified data to the press.

The IAF knows it shot down. PAF knows. And othe govts who have the means know it as well.

For me IAF statement is enough. IAF didnt need to lie.
 
cricketjoshila said:
Indian armed forces are not known to make statement as per the govt.

Hidden? A court of inquiry was established immediately and its report was awaited and then told to the media. Hiding would mean no court of inquiry.
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Indian armed forces weren't known to make statements UNTIL now.

The army chief has made political statements. We will invade Pakistan if we have orders...types.

You can't hide a chopper being down. But you can delay it till elections. And that's enough.

How many days of enquiry do you need to realize it was downed by you?

The Balakot saga happened in February.

Election happened in April.

2 months to find out who downed the chopper? :))

Even you know this is all nonsense.
 
Slog said:
Every neutral analyst as well as the Relevant US authorities when the F-16 count was done debunk this claim.

Even Christine fair who has a permanent hard on for india says this claim is false.
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US govt releases no official statement on any counts.
 
cricketjoshila said:
1. No neutral source was given access to that spot by pakistan for over a month.

2. Neutral source said we didnt release evidence of F16 shot down.

No one is going to release classified data to the press.

The IAF knows it shot down. PAF knows. And othe govts who have the means know it as well.

For me IAF statement is enough. IAF didnt need to lie.
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Neutral source says this : https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.econ...m-missing-report/amp_articleshow/68733231.cms

No Pakistani F16 was missing after the count. There’s regular audits done and it’s impossible to hide a missing F-16

For you IAFs word may be enough but for the rest of the world it is a laughing stock since they were clearly caught lying and changing story several times.

Anyways this has been debated to death so we can keep believing in what we want to.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Indian armed forces weren't known to make statements UNTIL now.

The army chief has made political statements. We will invade Pakistan if we have orders...types.

You can't hide a chopper being down. But you can delay it till elections. And that's enough.

How many days of enquiry do you need to realize it was downed by you?

The Balakot saga happened in February.

Election happened in April.

2 months to find out who downed the chopper? :))

Even you know this is all nonsense.
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Fighter planes crash, do you see court of inquiry and report being told?

Army chief was asked a question he answered. Look up statements by Manekshaw during 1971.

What will the chief say? We will not obey orders?

A court of inquiry establishes entire set of events. The reasons. How to avoid them and a lot of other things.
 
cricketjoshila said:
1. No neutral source was given access to that spot by pakistan for over a month.

2. Neutral source said we didnt release evidence of F16 shot down.

No one is going to release classified data to the press.

The IAF knows it shot down. PAF knows. And othe govts who have the means know it as well.

For me IAF statement is enough. IAF didnt need to lie.
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1. There is mystery shrouded in that. Agreed. Circumstantial evidence but hardcore evidence called satellites debunk us. Either satellites are right or its a massive conspiracy against us by all :P (even before the dogfight happened).

2. So didn't IAF. And considering IAF's other claim...govt's all claims were debunked....it makes it hard to believe them.

3. For you, IAF statement is enough. For me, considering EVERYTHING that has happened, it's not enough. You seem to think IAF is god...but it's filled with people who are under the govt. IAF is a respectable organization but this govt isn't. So a rational person will have trouble believing the narrative. It's on the other side to provide proof (especially when 9 out of the 10 claims get debunked by others).
 
cricketjoshila said:
Fighter planes crash, do you see court of inquiry and report being told?

Army chief was asked a question he answered. Look up statements by Manekshaw during 1971.

What will the chief say? We will not obey orders?

A court of inquiry establishes entire set of events. The reasons. How to avoid them and a lot of other things.
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So it would take 2 months to find out the result as to whose mistake was it?

Chief said we will not obey orders. Yet they say if govt gives permission, we will invade Pakistan. How does that work bhai? :))
 
Slog said:
Also didn’t india shoot down it’s own helicopter and for a while was claiming it was pakistani.

Anyways it was clear election ploy to act ignorant.

Lol even modi said the outcome would have been different and favorable to India if Rafael jets had been acquired earlier. So it means it really wasn’t favorable now was it.

Also I agree with you. Not enough questions are asked how the heck was several dozen kilograms of explosives smuggled into the most militarized zone in the world.

Seeing from outside, modi has politicized India’s military which was never the case before and was actually a genuine source of pride in comparison to what happens in Pakistan. Before the current one I didn’t even know the name of any high ranking Indian military officers let alone read statements from them every month
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It's all nonsense man.

All it takes is a few questions for everything to unravel.

To this day, I haven't heard any rational argument for our claims.

And trust me, I tried a LOTTTTTTTT.

Balakot was a painful saga for many Indians who actually wanted to know the truth (regardless of what it was).
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
So it would take 2 months to find out the result as to whose mistake was it?

Chief said we will not obey orders. Yet they say if govt gives permission, we will invade Pakistan. How does that work bhai? :))
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Did you check the actual quote of the army chief? He is better than his predecessor.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
1. There is mystery shrouded in that. Agreed. Circumstantial evidence but hardcore evidence called satellites debunk us. Either satellites are right or its a massive conspiracy against us by all :P (even before the dogfight happened).

2. So didn't IAF. And considering IAF's other claim...govt's all claims were debunked....it makes it hard to believe them.

3. For you, IAF statement is enough. For me, considering EVERYTHING that has happened, it's not enough. You seem to think IAF is god...but it's filled with people who are under the govt. IAF is a respectable organization but this govt isn't. So a rational person will have trouble believing the narrative. It's on the other side to provide proof (especially when 9 out of the 10 claims get debunked by others).
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1. How many spy satellite images were released? There is a big difference between military and civilian tech.

2. Why will IAF release classified data? Govt said, what IAF told them. Either you believe what the IAF says or you dont.

3. I know my history. Indian armed forces do not lie about Operational losses and successes. They were forthcoming on all their failures in past. They are under govt for political clearance, not for how they go about doing their OPs.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
So it would take 2 months to find out the result as to whose mistake was it?

Chief said we will not obey orders. Yet they say if govt gives permission, we will invade Pakistan. How does that work bhai? :))
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1. It may take more time. They will not make half baked reports to satisfy your curiosity.

2. Chief said he will obey the order he gets from the govt. If order is to invade, he will.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
It's all nonsense man.

All it takes is a few questions for everything to unravel.

To this day, I haven't heard any rational argument for our claims.

And trust me, I tried a LOTTTTTTTT.

Balakot was a painful saga for many Indians who actually wanted to know the truth (regardless of what it was).
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Balakot was painful for those who thought Modi will sit and do nothing like Mms.

Now to raise questions on Modi, they shamelessly question the armed forces.
 
Slog said:
Also didn’t india shoot down it’s own helicopter and for a while was claiming it was pakistani.

Anyways it was clear election ploy to act ignorant.

Lol even modi said the outcome would have been different and favorable to India if Rafael jets had been acquired earlier. So it means it really wasn’t favorable now was it.

Also I agree with you. Not enough questions are asked how the heck was several dozen kilograms of explosives smuggled into the most militarized zone in the world.

Seeing from outside, modi has politicized India’s military which was never the case before and was actually a genuine source of pride in comparison to what happens in Pakistan. Before the current one I didn’t even know the name of any high ranking Indian military officers let alone read statements from them every month
Click to expand...

1. IAF made no such claim. Stop lying.

2. Rafale would have replaced Mig 21s, shooting down a mig 21 and a rafale are two different things.

3. How are the terrorists getting guns and ammunition? If they are getting weapons, why not explosives?

4.Everyone and their dogs knew who was leading the Indian Army in 1971. Post Manekshaws popularity, even Indira Gandhi feared him. So they shut the armed forces off from the media. Modi just removed those curtains.
 
cricketjoshila said:
1. How many spy satellite images were released? There is a big difference between military and civilian tech.

2. Why will IAF release classified data? Govt said, what IAF told them. Either you believe what the IAF says or you dont.

3. I know my history. Indian armed forces do not lie about Operational losses and successes. They were forthcoming on all their failures in past. They are under govt for political clearance, not for how they go about doing their OPs.
Click to expand...

https://in.reuters.com/article/uk-i...ding-at-scene-of-indian-bombing-idINKCN1QN02Z

NEW DELHI/SINGAPORE (Reuters) - High-resolution satellite images reviewed by Reuters show that a religious school run by Jaish-e-Mohammad (JeM) in northeastern Pakistan appears to be still standing days after India claimed its warplanes had hit the Islamist group’s training camp on the site and killed a large number of militants.


The images produced by Planet Labs Inc, a San Francisco-based private satellite operator, show at least six buildings on the madrasa site on March 4, six days after the airstrike.

Until now, no high-resolution satellite images were publicly available. But the images from Planet Labs, which show details as small as 72 cm (28 inches), offer a clearer look at the structures the Indian government said it attacked.


The image is virtually unchanged from an April 2018 satellite photo of the facility. There are no discernible holes in the roofs of buildings, no signs of scorching, blown-out walls, displaced trees around the madrasa or other signs of an aerial attack.


The images cast further doubt on statements made over the last eight days by the Indian government of Prime Minister Narendra Modi that the raids, early on Feb. 26, had hit all the intended targets at the madrasa site near Jaba village and the town of Balakot in Pakistan’s Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province.

India’s foreign and defence ministries did not reply to emailed questions sent in the past few days seeking comment on what is shown in the satellite images and whether they undermine its official statements on the airstrikes.

MISSED THE TARGET?
Jeffrey Lewis, director of the East Asia Nonproliferation Project at the Middlebury Institute of International Studies, who has 15 years’ experience in analysing satellite images of weapons sites and systems, confirmed that the high-resolution satellite picture showed the structures in question.

“The high-resolution images don’t show any evidence of bomb damage,” he said. Lewis viewed three other high-resolution Planet Labs pictures of the site taken within hours of the image provided to Reuters.

The Indian government has not publicly disclosed what weapons were used in the strike.

Government sources told Reuters last week that 12 Mirage 2000 jets carrying 1,000 kg (2,200 lbs) bombs carried out the attack. On Tuesday, a defence official said the aircraft used the 2,000-lb Israeli-made SPICE 2000 glide bomb in the strike.

A warhead of that size is meant to destroy hardened targets such as concrete shelters.

Lewis and Dave Schmerler, a senior research associate at the James Martin Center for Nonproliferation studies who also analyses satellite images, said weapons that large would have caused obvious damage to the structures visible in the picture.

“If the strike had been successful, given the information we have about what kind of munitions were used, I would expect to see signs that the buildings had been damaged,” Lewis added. “I just don’t see that here.”

ADVERTISEMENT


Pakistan has disputed India’s account, saying the operation was a failure that saw Indian jets, under pressure from Pakistani planes, drop their bombs on a largely empty hillside.

“There has been no damage to any infrastructure or human life as a result of Indian incursion,” Major General Asif Ghafoor, the director general of the Pakistan military’s press wing, in a statement to Reuters.

“This has been vindicated by both domestic and international media after visiting the site.”

BOMB CRATERS
In two visits to the Balakot area in Pakistan by Reuters reporters last Tuesday and Thursday, and extensive interviews with people in the surrounding area, there was no evidence found of a destroyed camp or of anyone being killed. [here]

Villagers said there had been a series of huge explosions but the bombs appeared to have landed among trees.

On the wooded slopes above Jaba, they pointed to four craters and some splintered pine trees, but noted little other impact from the blasts that jolted them awake about 3 a.m. on Feb. 26.

“It shook everything,” said Abdur Rasheed, a van driver who works in the area.

A cropped version of a satellite image shows a close-up of a madrasa near Balakot, Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province, Pakistan, March 4, 2019. Mandatory credit: Planet Labs Inc./Handout via REUTERS
He said there weren’t any human casualties: “No one died. Only some pine trees died, they were cut down. A crow also died.”

Mohammad Saddique from Jaba Basic Health Unit and Zia Ul Haq, senior medical officer at Tehsil Headquarters Hospital in Balakot said they had seen no casualties.

POLITICAL FIRE
India must hold a general election by May, and pollsters say Modi and his Hindu nationalist party stand to benefit from his aggressive response to a suicide bomb attack that killed 40 Indian paramilitary police in the disputed Kashmir region on Feb. 14.

India’s Foreign Secretary Vijay Gokhale said on the day of the strike that “a very large number of Jaish-e-Mohammad terrorists, trainers, senior commanders, and groups of jihadis who were being trained for Fidayeen action were eliminated” in the attack. Fidayeen is a term used to describe Islamist militants on suicide missions.


Another senior government official told reporters on the same day that about 300 militants had been killed. On Sunday the president of the ruling Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), Amit Shah, put the number killed at more than 250.

The Indian government has not produced evidence that a camp was destroyed or that any militants were killed in the raid.

That has prompted some opposition politicians to push for more details.

“We want to know how many people actually died,” said Mamata Banerjee, the firebrand chief minister of West Bengal state, in a video published by her All India Trinamool Congress party in a tweet on Feb. 28. “Where did the bombs fall? Did they actually fall in the right place?”

Banerjee, who is seen as a potential prime ministerial candidate, said that she stood behind the Indian Armed Forces, but that they should be given a chance to speak the truth.

“We don’t want a war for political reasons, to win an election,” she said.

Modi has accused the opposition Congress party, and other opponents such as Banerjee, of helping India’s enemies by demanding evidence of the attacks.

“At a time when our army is engaged in crushing terrorism, inside the country and outside, there are some people within the country who are trying to break their morale, which is cheering our enemy,” Modi said at an election rally on Sunday.
Click to expand...

https://in.reuters.com/article/uk-i...ding-at-scene-of-indian-bombing-idINKCN1QN02Z

People with decades of experience in this field...knowing the ammunitions we carried and the damage it could do are debunking it.

Yet I am the one who is shameless.

:)))

Do you really think I am saying all this to oppose the brainless bufoon that Modi is.

As if I don't have data to mock him?

There is NOT a single question that I raised which you gave concrete proof.

Not a single one.

What happened to the Nirmala Sitharaman comment you quoted me on?

How will a defence minister know that?

Starting from there till the end...nothing is answered except trust IAF and disregard everything.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="hi" dir="ltr">���������� <br>���� <br>���������������� <br><br>8���� ���������������� <br>���������� <br><br>8 फरवरी को दिल्ली की सड़कों पर हिंदुस्तान और पाकिस्तान का मुकाबला होगा</p>— Kapil Mishra (@KapilMishra_IND) <a href="https://twitter.com/KapilMishra_IND/status/1220213605359992833?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 23, 2020</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

What's the update on this, haven't been following the news. Who won :inti
 
CricketCartoons said:
Did you check the actual quote of the army chief? He is better than his predecessor.
Click to expand...

"If parliament desires that area to also become our part at some point and if we receive any orders to this effect then action will definitely be taken," Naravane added.

Maybe the previous ones were worse. I didn't know that.
 
Abdullah719 said:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="hi" dir="ltr">���������� <br>���� <br>���������������� <br><br>8���� ���������������� <br>���������� <br><br>8 फरवरी को दिल्ली की सड़कों पर हिंदुस्तान और पाकिस्तान का मुकाबला होगा</p>— Kapil Mishra (@KapilMishra_IND) <a href="https://twitter.com/KapilMishra_IND/status/1220213605359992833?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 23, 2020</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

What's the update on this, haven't been following the news. Who won :inti
Click to expand...

Pakistan defeated India :afridi
 
cricketjoshila said:
1. IAF made no such claim. Stop lying.

2. Rafale would have replaced Mig 21s, shooting down a mig 21 and a rafale are two different things.

3. How are the terrorists getting guns and ammunition? If they are getting weapons, why not explosives?

4.Everyone and their dogs knew who was leading the Indian Army in 1971. Post Manekshaws popularity, even Indira Gandhi feared him. So they shut the armed forces off from the media. Modi just removed those curtains.
Click to expand...

As I said you can keep trying to believe what you want. Maybe if you keep denying then you May genuinely start to believe it too
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
"If parliament desires that area to also become our part at some point and if we receive any orders to this effect then action will definitely be taken," Naravane added.

Maybe the previous ones were worse. I didn't know that.
Click to expand...

Yes, he said that the parliament is supreme and army will follow what the parliament decides. That is a good statement. He also said the constitution is supreme.
 
CricketCartoons said:
Yes, he said that the parliament is supreme and army will follow what the parliament decides. That is a good statement. He also said the constitution is supreme.
Click to expand...

Of course they are supreme.

But he doesn't need to say that cos it goes without saying.

Saying we can take AJK if govt goes ahead is a political statement. Unless he was put in a spot which I don't think was the case.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Of course they are supreme.

But he doesn't need to say that cos it goes without saying.

Saying we can take AJK if govt goes ahead is a political statement. Unless he was put in a spot which I don't think was the case.
Click to expand...

He was asked a question and he needed to answer it to put a distance between him and the predecessor who was known for making political statements and put the record straight.
 
CricketCartoons said:
He was asked a question and he needed to answer it to put a distance between him and the predecessor who was known for making political statements and put the record straight.
Click to expand...

I can see your point.

Maybe he's just answering questions as they come. But he talked about POK first in an NDTV interview...then again in a media press conference 10 days later. Seems unnecessary to me. There are many ways to diffuse a topic and this is a loaded question that media asks.

Either ways, not a big deal.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
https://in.reuters.com/article/uk-i...ding-at-scene-of-indian-bombing-idINKCN1QN02Z



https://in.reuters.com/article/uk-i...ding-at-scene-of-indian-bombing-idINKCN1QN02Z

People with decades of experience in this field...knowing the ammunitions we carried and the damage it could do are debunking it.

Yet I am the one who is shameless.

:)))

Do you really think I am saying all this to oppose the brainless bufoon that Modi is.

As if I don't have data to mock him?

There is NOT a single question that I raised which you gave concrete proof.

Not a single one.

What happened to the Nirmala Sitharaman comment you quoted me on?

How will a defence minister know that?

Starting from there till the end...nothing is answered except trust IAF and disregard everything.
Click to expand...

Show me the IAF statement revealing the name of the ammunition used.

IAF showed SAR images to a group of journalists showing what we hit. India today published a report on it. There is a hell lot of difference between images of a military satellite and a civilian one.

Your data means jack, the people of india re elected him and a few haters wont change that.

IAF gave the proof. What they said is what the govt accepted and that is good enough for me. You doubt IAF, its your problem.

What happened to Sitaraman? IAF said they took out a F16, released some non classified radar imsges to prove their case. Ofcourse they wont release classified images just to satisfy some journalists.

Words of people who actually carried out the OPs and have spent decades in the field trump a few keyboard arm chair experts.
 
cricketjoshila said:
Read that again.

One magazine made the claim, citing unknown sources.
Click to expand...


“ U.S.-based Foreign Policy magazine said, citing U.S. officials, contradicting an Indian air force assessment that it had shot down one of the jets in February.

One magazine? Do you mean ‘Foreign Policy’ magazine? They cited US officials. Why are they lying exactly? They are also Pakistani agents? Reuters as well, clear Pakistani agents.
 
cricketjoshila said:
Show me the IAF statement revealing the name of the ammunition used.

IAF showed SAR images to a group of journalists showing what we hit. India today published a report on it. There is a hell lot of difference between images of a military satellite and a civilian one.

Your data means jack, the people of india re elected him and a few haters wont change that.

IAF gave the proof. What they said is what the govt accepted and that is good enough for me. You doubt IAF, its your problem.

What happened to Sitaraman? IAF said they took out a F16, released some non classified radar imsges to prove their case. Ofcourse they wont release classified images just to satisfy some journalists.

Words of people who actually carried out the OPs and have spent decades in the field trump a few keyboard arm chair experts.
Click to expand...

Ahhhhh......ok since you asked for it:

Show me the IAF statement revealing the name of the ammunition used.
Click to expand...

So IAF didn't use Spice2000 bombs mounted on Mirage 2000 fighter jets as reported by every single local and international news media?

Must be some magic bombs they used eh.

From the VERY ARTICLE (I posted) which you probably didn't even read:

Government sources told Reuters last week that 12 Mirage 2000 jets carrying 1,000 kg (2,200 lbs) bombs carried out the attack. On Tuesday, a defence official said the aircraft used the 2,000-lb Israeli-made SPICE 2000 glide bomb in the strike.


Let me guess your response.

ALL the news channels are wrong.

The govt sources MISLEAD RUETERS and hid the name of the jets and bombs.

IAF didn't make an official claim so that by itself means NOBODY KNOWS WHAT AMMUNITION WAS USED.

Right?

This is getting way too funny. :))

Your data means jack, the people of india re elected him and a few haters wont change that.
Click to expand...

Irrelevant. The very fact you are bringing election results speaks VOLUMES here. :D

IAF gave the proof. What they said is what the govt accepted and that is good enough for me. You doubt IAF, its your problem.
Click to expand...

Joshila bhai...you quoted me.

I didn't quote you.

So it's you having a problem with my view even tho mine is based on a completely rational perspective given the data we have at our disposal. All you have is FAITH that the right thing is done. Nothing wrong with it but hey....can't call out people for saying 1+1=2 based on what they see. :)

What happened to Sitaraman? IAF said they took out a F16, released some non classified radar imsges to prove their case. Ofcourse they wont release classified images just to satisfy some journalists.
Click to expand...

Conveniently sidestepping the ACTUAL topic that started the interaction eh.

You quoted me about my post reg Sitharaman's claim about the Pakistani pilot.

I said its debunked.

You said by who? According to you?

I showed proof of it.

No response to that.

How did Sitharaman know about the pilot? She couldn't have. She just went by the fake news. Defense minister of India going by fake news. :))

Words of people who actually carried out the OPs and have spent decades in the field trump a few keyboard arm chair experts.
Click to expand...

Only one difference.

Arm chair experts are OPEN for any conclusion based on data unlike others who HOPE that things would have been done right.
 
Redchilly007 said:
AAP was expected to win Delhi as the freebies offered were really tough to refuse. BJP was expected to lose as they categorically stated that they will stop free water, electricity and bus rides. They also lacked any solid local leader. Congress's surrender also helped AAP in a big way.

What might be the silver lining for BJP is the fact that they still managed nearly 40% vote share! They still have a unshakable large voter base which will vote for them regardless of circumstances. Perhaps they should initiate some more steps now to bring out agressive retaliation to polarize things in their favor completely.
Click to expand...

lol at freebies. BJP tried to offer more than those still lost badly. As I said only those who have lived in Delhi and has seen it can understand this. Rest of them are just barking just for the sake of it. :inti
 
cricketjoshila said:
Politics is one thing, but have some shame telling that IAF is lying.
Click to expand...

How did I miss this.

Have some shame...

A BJP supporter saying this :)))

Didn't know the Delhi partial loss has rattled the BJP this much.

Here's another example

Redchilly007 said:
What might be the silver lining for BJP is the fact that they still managed nearly 40% vote share! They still have a unshakable large voter base which will vote for them regardless of circumstances. Perhaps they should initiate some more steps now to bring out agressive retaliation to polarize things in their favor completely.
Click to expand...

:cobra
 
pillionrider said:
How did I miss this.

Have some shame...

A BJP supporter saying this :)))

Didn't know the Delhi partial loss has rattled the BJP this much.

Here's another example



:cobra
Click to expand...
Moral victory is the only refuge for sanghis now...
 
Do they want to stoop lower? Judging by their reactions, looks like more bullets, more riots in coming days...
 
BJP is going to win unless something miraculous happens which can happen by the way. The opposition is in complete state of disarray, they don't have any national agenda and even within respective state parties and Congress there is huge infighting with people of merit and potential pushed behind.

I do hope civil society regardless of political allegiance to be more active in coming years and holding the government accountable for any garbage that they create. We are reaching that threshold point where we will see lot of civil movement against various mismanagements by both state and national government.
 
FreePalestine said:
“ U.S.-based Foreign Policy magazine said, citing U.S. officials, contradicting an Indian air force assessment that it had shot down one of the jets in February.

One magazine? Do you mean ‘Foreign Policy’ magazine? They cited US officials. Why are they lying exactly? They are also Pakistani agents? Reuters as well, clear Pakistani agents.
Click to expand...

One magazine cited unnamed officials.

Reuters quoted the same magazine.
 
pillionrider said:
How did I miss this.

Have some shame...

A BJP supporter saying this :)))

Didn't know the Delhi partial loss has rattled the BJP this much.

Here's another example



:cobra
Click to expand...

Poor you. All you can talk about is Delhi.

All you guys are left with is making insinuations and getting a few foreigners to support you.

While Modi is PM for another term.
 
cricketjoshila said:
One magazine cited unnamed officials.

Reuters quoted the same magazine.
Click to expand...

What is your point exactly? Do you think the magazine is lying to support Pakistan? Do you think reuters ran the story because.... they also support Pakistan?? I really don’t understand your logic... Do you think the magazine did not actually talk to any US officials as they claim? Why did the US government not deny it?

TBH - in cricketing terms, sometimes I find your views logical sometimes, but here, I really struggle to understand how your mind is working, unless it is just an empty room with BJP theme music blaring. We should be able to think critically, even in relation to parties we support.

Anyway, if you can’t accept even this, then clearly truth is not something you are after. So, by all means, enjoy living in blissful ignorance. Must be comfortable :)
 
Some of my fellow posters are using the term 'Sangh', 'Sanghi' as its some kind of slur. Most of them dont even know what Sangh stands for or the selfless tasks they perform for the nation. I can sense some sort of parallel being drawn comparing Sangh with some banned terror outfits. I can only laugh at such naivetis.

I actually do not blame them. We live in an era where social media and false news are widespread. They have been brainwash by media/opposition on a daily basis that Sangh is communal and criminal organization which has sinister motive. I would urge them....visit one of their sakhas just for a day. Your entire perception will change.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="in" dir="ltr">In 2019, Arvind Kejriwal told Kunal Kamra why the Amit Shah-Narendra Modi combine was dangerous for India. <a href="https://twitter.com/ArvindKejriwal?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@ArvindKejriwal</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/kunalkamra88?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@kunalkamra88</a> <a href="https://t.co/hc0EZfCBlN">pic.twitter.com/hc0EZfCBlN</a></p>— Brut India (@BrutIndia) <a href="https://twitter.com/BrutIndia/status/1227563716637364225?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 12, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Forget the tweet content and just watch the video with an open mind.

Kejri exposing BJP and Congress promises to Delhi reg statehood (also addresses the national security issue wrt Delhi statehood).
 
Last edited:
As long as Indian Muslims fight for a self-entitled veto-power, , BJP will always be favorites. The ugly and violent side of a powerful minority is out open. Even in state Delhi elections, the same polling agencies which showed AAP winning, also showed how majority support CAA, and will vote Modi in Lok Sabha.
 
Last edited:
Ramchandra Guha, Jairam Ramesh Tweet 1947 Letters After Jaishankar Says Nehru Did Not Want Patel in Cabinet

https://www.news18.com/news/politic...ru-did-not-want-patel-in-cabinet-2499777.html

Lies after lies after lies.

Works great on people who are ignorant (like me on most topics like history, economics, etc).

But when the real BIG dogs come into the picture, their lies get exposed.

Their obsession with Nehru is disturbing lol.

Nobody cares about Nehru. They can keep attacking him all they want. lol.
 
I'm not surprised to see how learned man like Jaishankar also become bigots after coming in contact with rabid sanghis.
 
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