Arsenal FC | 2024/25 Season

[topspin]

What's not to rate?

Have a look at the sides that were in the CWC when Arsenal won it.

Real Madrid
PSG
Torino - uefa cup finalist 2 years before
Benfica
Leverkusen
Ajax - won the CL the following season
Parma - holders

That's the 7 other teams that were in 1/4 finals. Both the CWC and Uefa Cup back in 90s were very strong in certain seasons.

Arsenal beat a PSG team with ginola and weah

Parma won the CWC and uefa Cup in mid 90s

So yeah I put Arsenal win in a final over a Parma team with a front 3 of Asprilla, zola and brolin. Over any CL win until we win a final.

Yeah CL is top tier. But a 1/4 final 1st leg win doesn't surpase a Trophy win. Espcially when the CWC was very strong when Arsenal won it

I take your point but let's be honest no one, literally no one remembers or cares about those two European cup wins. It's the European Cup/Champions League triumphs that are remembered.

 

[Rana]

Completely agree with your analysis.

Bro, do you remember last year about Odegaard and Babar analogy? I got the same vibes from him. Mentally very weak. Didn't want to impose himself in the game.

Yeah as usual he won’t be there against the big boys. Decent player against mid/lower teams

Tbf Bellingham was nowhere today too besides some good defending

 

[Amjid Javed]

I take your point but let's be honest no one, literally no one remembers or cares about those two European cup wins. It's the European Cup/Champions League triumphs that are remembered.

We haven't won a European Cup or CL, overall European pedigree isn't great.

So I do remember the one European trophy I've seen the club win as a fan.

To say fans don't remember or care is incorrect. That's just been ignorant to the club's history.

Arsenal have been that bad in Europe in my life time that we've reached 4 finals. So the one we did win will always be remembered the most.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Completely agree with your analysis.

Bro, do you remember last year about Odegaard and Babar analogy? I got the same vibes from him. Mentally very weak. Didn't want to impose himself in the game.

He was weak and mediocre tonight. Thankfully Rice stepped up

 

[Abdullah]

So Arteta has got Arsenal back to where they belong !?!!?

 

[topspin]

We haven't won a European Cup or CL, overall European pedigree isn't great.

So I do remember the one European trophy I've seen the club win as a fan.

To say fans don't remember or care is incorrect. That's just been ignorant to the club's history.

Arsenal have been that bad in Europe in my life time that we've reached 4 finals. So the one we did win will always be remembered the most.

I respect that but literally no one talks about it. People talk about Arsenal's famous wins in the Champions League and replayed some of those goals, like Henry's at the Bernabeu, but when it comes to those 2 x European wins, even Arsenal fans don't seem to cherish it like they do when Arsenal beat RM, Barca, AC Milan, Juve, Roma, Inter Milan etc.

 

[Amjid Javed]

I respect that but literally no one talks about it. People talk about Arsenal's famous wins in the Champions League and replayed some of those goals, like Henry's at the Bernabeu, but when it comes to those 2 x European wins, even Arsenal fans don't seem to cherish it like they do when Arsenal beat RM, Barca, AC Milan, Juve, Roma, Inter Milan etc.

Depends on your age and what you remember. Arsenal last won a European trophy 30+ years ago. Most of current fan base probably weren't even born or to young to remember it. So what are you going to cherish? Something you saw? Or something you didn't?

It's no different to fans getting over excited after second place finishes in league now and calling it best they have ever seen. Again because of what they have seen.

The win of Madrid in terms of European performances in knock out games would be in the top Arsenal performances I've seen them do in Europe.

Beating juve 2-0 Highbury
Beating AC Milan 2-0 in San siro
Beat Real 1-0 away
Beat Barca 2-1 home

again as a teenager I remember Arsenal beating a strong Parma side to win our last European trophy. The following year when we beat sampdoria in semi final 3-2 at home. Was an amazing night of football and performance. Again most of this fan bases weren't born or were in nappies to remember such nights. For an Arsenal team which was struggling in league to beat a star studded sampdoria team in the fashion they did again always sticks in mind

It's not undermined tonight's win, its just again what have you witnessed as a fan in your lifetime.

Its no different to those fans backing this regime / manager compared to those who don't, that's also based on what you remember and have seen at the club

 

[Amjid Javed]

Massive respect to Rice for his after game interview. He came out and he said he knows that he has to step up in these big games. I'm sure all players now are aware what pundits, fans have to say about players. Also when you pay 100M for a player, these are games you expect them to turn up and make a difference.

Either him or Gabriel should be club captain next season.

Enough of the headless chicken running around, wave his arms and Dissapearing as usual.

Rice showed oddegard how you lead from front when required

 

[Amjid Javed]

Looks like 5 English teams atleast will be in CL next season.

Not 100% on qualifying rules but their maybe a possibility of 6 or 7? If English team wins europa and Villa won CL and finished outside top 5 lol

 

[Geordie Ahmed]

Looks like 5 English teams atleast will be in CL next season.

Not 100% on qualifying rules but their maybe a possibility of 6 or 7? If English team wins europa and Villa won CL and finished outside top 5 lol

Yeah, there is a possibility of having 7 teams in the CL

Top 5 are guaranteed
English CL winners that finish outside top 5 (So Villa)
Europa League winners (Spurs or Man U)

 

[MK7Z]

Massive respect to Rice for his after game interview. He came out and he said he knows that he has to step up in these big games. I'm sure all players now are aware what pundits, fans have to say about players. Also when you pay 100M for a player, these are games you expect them to turn up and make a difference.

Either him or Gabriel should be club captain next season.

Enough of the headless chicken running around, wave his arms and Dissapearing as usual.

Rice showed oddegard how you lead from front when required

I actually think he he has been good overall this season apart from early on when he had just came back from the Euros and was playing with a broken toe. His level was so high last season that the drop off was evident.

The 100 million price tag will always be bought up however - which 100 million midfield player would anyone say has smashed it? Or even done better than what Rice has. Enzo? Caicedo? Pogba? Jack Grealish?

When you think about the names above then £100 million is about right as i'm pretty sure without even checking that his attacking output is probably much same or better over the number of games played for Arsenal, and he is not even an attacking player. He is one of the best Enforcers around barring Rodri.

As for captain Martin. He is just a teachers pet. It was summed up with the pathetic free kick he took 1st few mins of the game and then insisted on Declan crossing it cos set piece coach said so. Makes sense now why we never score free kicks. Nobody uses initiative and are over coached. Man in charge on the pitch makes sure every one listens.

Thats an issue with football now days overall. You don't see magic its more structured and robotic.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Congrats brothers. One of the few games I have watched recently - watched with some friends who are Real madrid fans and everyones Jaw dropped at Rice second goal. Can only imagine how you guys must have felt.

 

[topspin]

Massive respect to Rice for his after game interview. He came out and he said he knows that he has to step up in these big games. I'm sure all players now are aware what pundits, fans have to say about players. Also when you pay 100M for a player, these are games you expect them to turn up and make a difference.

Either him or Gabriel should be club captain next season.

Enough of the headless chicken running around, wave his arms and Dissapearing as usual.

Rice showed oddegard how you lead from front when required

Ode stuck out like a sore thumb.

 

[topspin]

I actually think he he has been good overall this season apart from early on when he had just came back from the Euros and was playing with a broken toe. His level was so high last season that the drop off was evident.

The 100 million price tag will always be bought up however - which 100 million midfield player would anyone say has smashed it? Or even done better than what Rice has. Enzo? Caicedo? Pogba? Jack Grealish?

When you think about the names above then £100 million is about right as i'm pretty sure without even checking that his attacking output is probably much same or better over the number of games played for Arsenal, and he is not even an attacking player. He is one of the best Enforcers around barring Rodri.

As for captain Martin. He is just a teachers pet. It was summed up with the pathetic free kick he took 1st few mins of the game and then insisted on Declan crossing it cos set piece coach said so. Makes sense now why we never score free kicks. Nobody uses initiative and are over coached. Man in charge on the pitch makes sure every one listens.

Thats an issue with football now days overall. You don't see magic its more structured and robotic.

Ode is just mentally weak. There’s no doubt that he’s got the ability but when you look at his PL career, his end product is worse than Maddison, which says it all really.

 

[topspin]

Dont worry Pal. I ignore unnecessary hot air. And i didn't slag him. I said his performances throughout the season, as one of the main players have been not up standard. Hence, a moderate Liverpool side romping to the title.

Okay but let’s stick to current affairs. You’ve given Arsenal credit, which is all good but what about Rice in particular? Any words about his performance yesterday.

 

[aboveandbeyond]

Havertz is best suited to the -10
Odegaard - 8
Rice/Partey - 6

 

[aboveandbeyond]

Okay but let’s stick to current affairs. You’ve given Arsenal credit, which is all good but what about Rice in particular? Any words about his performance yesterday.

He played well last night. No doubt about it.

 

[IMMY69]

View attachment 153072

Ode stuck out like a sore thumb.

I'd put Parety at a solid 8.

He was sublime, a colossus and absolutely on top form.

 

[IMMY69]

One thing that is indisputable, this was the greatest night at the Emirates Stadium...

 

[Amjid Javed]

One thing that is indisputable, this was the greatest night at the Emirates Stadium...

2-1 win over Barca for me.

That was a prime Barcelona (probably the best footballing club I've seen in my lifetime) and to beat them that night, even though we lost second leg, is above last nights win.

 

[Amjid Javed]

I actually think he he has been good overall this season apart from early on when he had just came back from the Euros and was playing with a broken toe. His level was so high last season that the drop off was evident.

The 100 million price tag will always be bought up however - which 100 million midfield player would anyone say has smashed it? Or even done better than what Rice has. Enzo? Caicedo? Pogba? Jack Grealish?

When you think about the names above then £100 million is about right as i'm pretty sure without even checking that his attacking output is probably much same or better over the number of games played for Arsenal, and he is not even an attacking player. He is one of the best Enforcers around barring Rodri.

As for captain Martin. He is just a teachers pet. It was summed up with the pathetic free kick he took 1st few mins of the game and then insisted on Declan crossing it cos set piece coach said so. Makes sense now why we never score free kicks. Nobody uses initiative and are over coached. Man in charge on the pitch makes sure every one listens.

Thats an issue with football now days overall. You don't see magic its more structured and robotic.

If anyone notice in 1st half the captain kept waving his arms pointing where players should go. Its just over kill, both manager and captain feel like they have to micro manage everything. Its actually annoying and cringe worthy to watch

 

[IMMY69]

2-1 win over Barca for me.

That was a prime Barcelona (probably the best footballing club I've seen in my lifetime) and to beat them that night, even though we lost second leg, is above last nights win.

That was a special night too.
But in terms of the margin of victory and Cesc's injury at the end of the Barca game, last night just edges it for me.

 

[topspin]

Depends on your age and what you remember. Arsenal last won a European trophy 30+ years ago. Most of current fan base probably weren't even born or to young to remember it. So what are you going to cherish? Something you saw? Or something you didn't?

It's no different to fans getting over excited after second place finishes in league now and calling it best they have ever seen. Again because of what they have seen.

The win of Madrid in terms of European performances in knock out games would be in the top Arsenal performances I've seen them do in Europe.

Beating juve 2-0 Highbury
Beating AC Milan 2-0 in San siro
Beat Real 1-0 away
Beat Barca 2-1 home

again as a teenager I remember Arsenal beating a strong Parma side to win our last European trophy. The following year when we beat sampdoria in semi final 3-2 at home. Was an amazing night of football and performance. Again most of this fan bases weren't born or were in nappies to remember such nights. For an Arsenal team which was struggling in league to beat a star studded sampdoria team in the fashion they did again always sticks in mind

It's not undermined tonight's win, its just again what have you witnessed as a fan in your lifetime.

Its no different to those fans backing this regime / manager compared to those who don't, that's also based on what you remember and have seen at the club

I have been supporting Arsenal since 2000, so in all fairness, I never got to experience it.

In terms of my most fond memories in Europe:

• Beating Roma 3-1 in Rome - Henry hat-trick
• Beating Inter Milan 5-1 at the San Siro
• Beating Real Madrid 1-0 away at the Bernabeu
• Beating AC Milan 2-0 at the San Siro
• Beating Juventus 2-0 at Highbury
• Beating Barcelona 2-1 at the Emirates
• Last night - king of them all

 

[topspin]

If anyone notice in 1st half the captain kept waving his arms pointing where players should go. Its just over kill, both manager and captain feel like they have to micro manage everything. Its actually annoying and cringe worthy to watch

I remember when he was telling Saka to push up on the right flank but the winger was reluctant because no one was covering Vini as Timber had drifted central. Saka reluctantly took two steps forward, which makes me wonder whether the players around Ode have less confidence in his leadership.

 

[topspin]

 

[aboveandbeyond]

The Premier League Quality all in all has declined in my opinion because of to many structured teams. Players have to fit in to a certain system and Criteria which has led to the quality players not of the standard of 15 - 20 years ago. Players are more static and fitness driven with the exception of the few like Salah, Debryune who have carried the flag for the mercurial Geniuses.

 

[Amjid Javed]

That was a special night too.
But in terms of the margin of victory and Cesc's injury at the end of the Barca game, last night just edges it for me.

Cesc injury was in the 2-2 draw vs Barca. Not the 2-1 win.

 

[Amjid Javed]

I have been supporting Arsenal since 2000, so in all fairness, I never got to experience it.

In terms of my most fond memories in Europe:

• Beating Roma 3-1 in Rome - Henry hat-trick
• Beating Inter Milan 5-1 at the San Siro
• Beating Real Madrid 1-0 away at the Bernabeu
• Beating AC Milan 2-0 at the San Siro
• Beating Juventus 2-0 at Highbury
• Beating Barcelona 2-1 at the Emirates
• Last night - king of them all

Yeah all of those were good.

The inter one in particular as Arsenal started the group stage off poorly and lost 3-0 to inter at home. So to win last 3 group games to qualify and spank inter in reverse game was epic.

Also beating Juve 2-0 when Pires tackled Vieira to win the ball for the 1st Arsenal goal.

Because I go further back Arsenal beating parma 1-0 with Ian Wright missing the final, won't be topped unless Arsenal win another European trophy.

Plus beating sampdoria at home in a semi final a team which had Zenga, lombardo, jugovic, Mancini (viecherwood and mihalovic played the 2nd leg)

 

[Amjid Javed]

The Premier League Quality all in all has declined in my opinion because of to many structured teams. Players have to fit in to a certain system and Criteria which has led to the quality players not of the standard of 15 - 20 years ago. Players are more static and fitness driven with the exception of the few like Salah, Debryune who have carried the flag for the mercurial Geniuses.

You can thank Pep for making all teams copy the system based, robotic, choreographed football most teams play now.

 

[IMMY69]

Cesc injury was in the 2-2 draw vs Barca. Not the 2-1 win.

You're right.
Memory not so great, old age must be catching up on me.
Both were great nights.

 

[aboveandbeyond]

You can thank Pep for making all teams copy the system based, robotic, choreographed football most teams play now.

Yep. Flair players are hindered in the modern Game

 

[aboveandbeyond]

You're right.
Memory not so great, old age must be catching up on me.
Both were great nights.

Jeez. How Young are you pal.

Free Bus pass looming?

 

[IMMY69]

Jeez. How Young are you pal.

Free Bus pass looming?

Not too long to wait now...
Blink of an eye

 

[Rana]

Massive respect to Rice for his after game interview. He came out and he said he knows that he has to step up in these big games. I'm sure all players now are aware what pundits, fans have to say about players. Also when you pay 100M for a player, these are games you expect them to turn up and make a difference.

Either him or Gabriel should be club captain next season.

Enough of the headless chicken running around, wave his arms and Dissapearing as usual.

Rice showed oddegard how you lead from front when required

100%

Rice is a natural leader

 

[Rana]

View attachment 153075

Reminds me of @gazza619 being served Kebab

 

[Amjid Javed]

You're right.
Memory not so great, old age must be catching up on me.
Both were great nights.

Yeah the 2-2 game for 1st half wasn't even competitive, I think after about 30 mins the possession stats were something bizarre like 90 / 10. We literally cudnt get the ball off them. Yet managed to keep it 0-0 but then gave away 2 poor goals.

The 2-1 game we actually played some good football and to win the game will always for me stick out as best win in a game in CL.

 

[Markhor]

Rice delivered two of the best free kicks I've seen. Arsenal were rarely threatened defensively. The only times Real looked like creating a chance was from an Arsenal mistake.

Worth noting Real Madrid lost to Valencia too on the weekend. Seems like an ageing team that are there for the taking.

Had Arsenal a proper centre forward to get on the end of those two Saka crosses and it would've been worse for Real.

 

[topspin]

Reminds me of @gazza619 being served Kebab

At Kebab Niazi stadium with 33 KPK truck drivers

 

[Rana]

Rice delivered two of the best free kicks I've seen

The second one was insane

I thought he will try over the wall in top left corner but to beat a keeper of Courtouis quality directly from his side into the top right was too good! One of the greatest free kick goals in Arsenal history of not Champion’s league history!

 

[topspin]

The second one was insane

I thought he will try over the wall in top left corner but to beat a keeper of Courtouis quality directly from his side into the top right was too good! One of the greatest free kick goals in Arsenal history of not Champion’s league history!

Worth every penny of his transfer fee.

I will never understand why this guy has haters.

 

[Rana]

Worth every penny of his transfer fee.

I will never understand why this guy has haters.

I think the Harry McGuire transfer left a bad taste in people’s mouth as his transfer fee wasn’t correctly assessed, but it’s the premium kind of price you have to pay to get proven English talent expected to get stronger and better now. I thought it was a landmark signing for Arsenal because these are the kind of English players United, City and Liverpool were buying for top dollar and it transforms the mentality of your side. I wasn’t in any doubt this guy isn’t going to be the real deal. He just carries himself as a proper professional like Gerrard or Lampard.

 

[Technics 1210]

Odds right now on Arsenal doing the double?

 

[topspin]

Odds right now on Arsenal doing the double?

What are the odds on you being able to think straight after a DJ set?

@Rana

 

[aboveandbeyond]

I think the Harry McGuire transfer left a bad taste in people’s mouth as his transfer fee wasn’t correctly assessed, but it’s the premium kind of price you have to pay to get proven English talent expected to get stronger and better now. I thought it was a landmark signing for Arsenal because these are the kind of English players United, City and Liverpool were buying for top dollar and it transforms the mentality of your side. I wasn’t in any doubt this guy isn’t going to be the real deal. He just carries himself as a proper professional like Gerrard or Lampard.

Majority of the English players have the so called " English Tax" on their transfer fee to vastly inflate the value. When reality is, majority are vastly overrated by the media

 

[topspin]

Majority of the English players have the so called " English Tax" on their transfer fee to vastly inflate the value. When reality is, majority are vastly overrated by the media

There are good reasons for why you pay a premium for English players. Some of the ones I can think of from the top of my head include:

1. English players at big clubs are less likely to move to another club during their peak years. Overseas players are more likely to leave and play in other leagues

2. African players play in AFCON during the middle of the season. For obvious reasons this is going to reduce their value as an asset to the club. South American players will travel to Brazil, Argentina etc and play games in the middle of the week and will not be match fit on that weekend because of the hours spent playing and flying

3. English players are more marketable. A classic example being Rice

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying it's always justified - a classic example being Man U being bumped for £80m for Maguire. What do you make of his transfer fee?

Overall, generally speaking elite English players will be more often than not be worth more than their overseas counterparts for footballing and non-footballing reasons.

 

[topspin]

I think the Harry McGuire transfer left a bad taste in people’s mouth as his transfer fee wasn’t correctly assessed, but it’s the premium kind of price you have to pay to get proven English talent expected to get stronger and better now. I thought it was a landmark signing for Arsenal because these are the kind of English players United, City and Liverpool were buying for top dollar and it transforms the mentality of your side. I wasn’t in any doubt this guy isn’t going to be the real deal. He just carries himself as a proper professional like Gerrard or Lampard.

I agree. If I was a Man U fan and I've just seen my team throw away £80m on Maguire, I would be riled up about Arsenal signing a player of Rice's calibre for a little bit more.

You could argue, Maguire's transfer fee when adjusted for inflation is £100m+ in today's money. That's how stupid Man Utd are and to this day, it remains as the world record fee for a defender

 

[aboveandbeyond]

Maguire was one of many players UTD paid over the Odds. The list is pretty long imafraid, and on top of that, the wages majority of the UTD players are on are extortionate which isn't justified.

But the reality is, UTD are still by some distance the biggest in the UK, and one of the biggest in the world. Soon of later they will get it right.

 

[Rana]

Thomas Partey

Very underrated player. Arsenal got this guy for peanuts and he has been a top performer for them in big games.

 

[topspin]

Thomas Partey

Very underrated player. Arsenal got this guy for peanuts and he has been a top performer for them in big games.

Arsenal should have renewed his contract by now. I would give him a 2 year extension. It is risky given his injury issues prior to this season but I think it’s a worth punt.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Thomas Partey

Very underrated player. Arsenal got this guy for peanuts and he has been a top performer for them in big games.

He was immense on Tuesday and still Arsenal best midfielder at the club.

Yet there are people in this fan base that wanted havertz / merino in midfield over this guy

 

[Rana]

He was immense on Tuesday and still Arsenal best midfielder at the club.

Yet there are people in this fan base that wanted havertz / merino in midfield over this guy

Naa it’s pretty clear Partey is a big league/big club player. The type you will see Barca, City, Bayern etc sign to keep their squad competitive. One of the best, underrated signings for Arsenal in recent history.

 

[aboveandbeyond]

He was immense on Tuesday and still Arsenal best midfielder at the club.

Yet there are people in this fan base that wanted havertz / merino in midfield over this guy

Playing CM doesnt mean he's excells in the whole of midfield. For me Party is best at CDM. The 8 role is totally different. As is CAM

 

[Amjid Javed]

Playing CM doesnt mean he's excells in the whole of midfield. For me Party is best at CDM. The 8 role is totally different. As is CAM

My point was people at start of season were asking for a midfield of Rice, ghostddegard and Merino or havertz

Simply not wanting Partey in team was plain dumb

 

[Amjid Javed]

 

[topspin]

He was immense on Tuesday and still Arsenal best midfielder at the club.

Yet there are people in this fan base that wanted havertz / merino in midfield over this guy

He's had a brilliant season but do you really think he's a better midfielder than Rice?

My point was people at start of season were asking for a midfield of Rice, ghostddegard and Merino or havertz

Simply not wanting Partey in team was plain dumb

Bro prior to this season, he was missing most of our games and some fans (not including me) wanted him gone because he's subject to a police investigation, which I won't go into any further.

 

[aboveandbeyond]

He was immense on Tuesday and still Arsenal best midfielder at the club.

Yet there are people in this fan base that wanted havertz / merino in midfield over this guy

Agree. For me Partey is the best midfielder at Arsenal. Injuries have hindered him from reaching his optimum best.

 

[umerz]

Odds right now on Arsenal doing the double?

I dont think Arsenal will go to Bernabeau to win the game. They would be playing for a draw and to qualify for Semis.

 

[Amjid Javed]

He's had a brilliant season but do you really think he's a better midfielder than Rice?



Bro prior to this season, he was missing most of our games and some fans (not including me) wanted him gone because he's subject to a police investigation, which I won't go into any further.

I'd take a 10% fit partey over havertz or merino in midfield every day of the week and twice on Sunday. We saw at end of last season once Partey was back playing what a difference he makes to the side.

Partey has shown this season as well why he's still high quality.

Arteta has wasted 130M on Vieira, havertz and Merino as number 8 options. A few goals as strikers from havertz and Merino. Doesn't change fact they were signed to play the 8 role and have stunk the place out.

Essentially you now have Rice playing the 8. Which means the club has spent 230M on 4 players, 3 of which are abysmal in midfield.

Partey deserves another year.

On top of that you have the issue with oddegard reverting back to his mediocre standards.

So reality is Arsenal need to buy a top quality number 10, id actually bin off oddegard, but we know thar Arteta won't do that to one of his pets.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Worth every penny of his transfer fee.

I will never understand why this guy has haters.

Only hater was @aboveandbeyond - maybe he's eaten to much rice in his life time, so that's where hatred come from lol.

Rice himself said in interview that he knows he has to step up in big games Nd make a difference. If your signing a marquee player that's what you expect.

Reality is Rice was poor in the 2 Bayern games last season. Also not that great in euro final for England vs Spain.

So you can see why constructive criticism was justified.

The question with Rice was always is he good? Or is he world class, or can he become world class.

Let's be real we have fans in this fan base who were calling oddegard and havertz world class

 

[aboveandbeyond]

I will still maintain

Havertz - 10
Odegaard - 8
Partey/ Rice - 6

Doesnt mean to say i hate anyone lol

Another example for me is Kane . Scores consistently until the business end of proceedings. Starts to go AWOL

 

[Amjid Javed]

I will still maintain

Havertz - 10
Odegaard - 8
Partey/ Rice - 6

Doesnt mean to say i hate anyone lol

Another example for me is Kane . Scores consistently until the business end of proceedings. Starts to go AWOL

Only 2 people left now think havertz is a good number 10. The other person has been on vacation hiding in peshawar mountains

 

[aboveandbeyond]

Only 2 people left now think havertz is a good number 10. The other person has been on vacation hiding in peshawar mountains

Its a matter of opnions buddy. I'm no Arsenal fan, but it's clear and obvious, You'd be critical of Havertz and Odegaard even if their performances were Top draw.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Its a matter of opnions buddy. I'm no Arsenal fan, but it's clear and obvious, You'd be critical of Havertz and Odegaard even if their performances were Top draw.

Neither players performances have been top draw.

Havertz is a FTB and failure in PL over 5 seaaons. Pretty much living off that goal in CL final.

Oddegard is decent at best, had 1 good season where he over performed. A very average captain with zero leadership skills

Both would be ideally suited to a Club like United.

 

[MK7Z]

I am glad Partey is getting his Flowers. I have been on about this monster for as long as I have been consistently posting.

Only time he has had issues is when he has been asked to play right back. He does tend to miss a lot of key games but this season he has on the whole been injury free. Part of that is he has been rested more.

I think the whole issue around his contract expiring is due to the off field stuff he is alleged of. Doesn't make sense Arsenal renewing his contract and him getting himself into a legal pickle. Unfortunately does look like he will be off but ideally everyone knows he has at least 1 more season in him, especially if we get Zubamendi as reported. Our midfield will be strong. Also hopefully a number 10.

 

[topspin]

Only hater was @aboveandbeyond - maybe he's eaten to much rice in his life time, so that's where hatred come from lol.

Or maybe he shares in Tilda and now the share price has taken a hit following the emergence of Declan?

Rice himself said in interview that he knows he has to step up in big games Nd make a difference. If your signing a marquee player that's what you expect.

Reality is Rice was poor in the 2 Bayern games last season. Also not that great in euro final for England vs Spain.

So you can see why constructive criticism was justified.

I think this is a little bit harsh. He has been a solid in a number of big games for West Ham, England and Arsenal. He was literally Arsenal's best last season. He would have won the PFA player of the year award had Arsenal got over the line in the title race.

15 G/A in 38 PL games last season and 6 G/A in 10 CL games this season. Gun player.

The question with Rice was always is he good? Or is he world class, or can he become world class.

People say you have to do it for years to officially become world class. If you are one of the two best DMs in world football, you have to be world class right?

Let's be real we have fans in this fan base who were calling oddegard and havertz world class

Odegaard's issue is all mental. I would say he's mentally the weakest player I've ever seen in the PL. Maddison has had a better career than this guy.

Havertz is a jack of all master of none type of player.

 

[topspin]

I am glad Partey is getting his Flowers. I have been on about this monster for as long as I have been consistently posting.

Only time he has had issues is when he has been asked to play right back. He does tend to miss a lot of key games but this season he has on the whole been injury free. Part of that is he has been rested more.

I think the whole issue around his contract expiring is due to the off field stuff he is alleged of. Doesn't make sense Arsenal renewing his contract and him getting himself into a legal pickle. Unfortunately does look like he will be off but ideally everyone knows he has at least 1 more season in him, especially if we get Zubamendi as reported. Our midfield will be strong. Also hopefully a number 10.

I think so.

As for Zubimendi, I'm not sure if he'll be able to cope with the physicality in the PL.

 

[MK7Z]

Or maybe he shares in Tilda and now the share price has taken a hit following the emergence of Declan?



I think this is a little bit harsh. He has been a solid in a number of big games for West Ham, England and Arsenal. He was literally Arsenal's best last season. He would have won the PFA player of the year award had Arsenal got over the line in the title race.

15 G/A in 38 PL games last season and 6 G/A in 10 CL games this season. Gun player.



People say you have to do it for years to officially become world class. If you are one of the two best DMs in world football, you have to be world class right?



Odegaard's issue is all mental. I would say he's mentally the weakest player I've ever seen in the PL. Maddison has had a better career than this guy.

Havertz is a jack of all master of none type of player.

Please elaborate on how Maddison has had a better career?

Not even a gauranteed starter at spurs. Subbed off a lot games after disaster performances.

Relegated twice I think?

Doesn't even make the England squad when all sorts of thrash get called up.

Yes he won a cup with Leicester.

Currently 15th in the league? I haven't checked.

Odegaard has been poor this season but to say Maddison has had a better career when the level and expectation of him has always been low.
Hence when he gets his G/A it looks better than it actually is.

You don't have to Like Odegaard but to say Maddison is better when he plays with zero expectations.

Where I do agree is that odegaard needs to live up to the expectations and get over this weak mental block cos when he is like he was last season he's 10 levels above Maddison.

 

[aboveandbeyond]

Please elaborate on how Maddison has had a better career?

Not even a gauranteed starter at spurs. Subbed off a lot games after disaster performances.

Relegated twice I think?

Doesn't even make the England squad when all sorts of thrash get called up.

Yes he won a cup with Leicester.

Currently 15th in the league? I haven't checked.

Odegaard has been poor this season but to say Maddison has had a better career when the level and expectation of him has always been low.
Hence when he gets his G/A it looks better than it actually is.

You don't have to Like Odegaard but to say Maddison is better when he plays with zero expectations.

Where I do agree is that odegaard needs to live up to the expectations and get over this weak mental block cos when he is like he was last season he's 10 levels above Maddison.

Agree. Odegaard and Havertz seem to get unjustified and extensive criticism from certain Gooners. I find it laughable, how anyone can compare a failure in Maddison to Odegaard. Its virtually, chalk and cheese.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Or maybe he shares in Tilda and now the share price has taken a hit following the emergence of Declan?



I think this is a little bit harsh. He has been a solid in a number of big games for West Ham, England and Arsenal. He was literally Arsenal's best last season. He would have won the PFA player of the year award had Arsenal got over the line in the title race.

15 G/A in 38 PL games last season and 6 G/A in 10 CL games this season. Gun player.



People say you have to do it for years to officially become world class. If you are one of the two best DMs in world football, you have to be world class right?



Odegaard's issue is all mental. I would say he's mentally the weakest player I've ever seen in the PL. Maddison has had a better career than this guy.

Havertz is a jack of all master of none type of player.

He was good in a lot of Games last season. But he didn't look great vs Bayern or Spain. This was where he was up against high quality world class midfielders. So I can see where his comments came from as he knows himself he had to step in CL this season. Also same in next international tournament aswell.

Yeah he is up there with best DMs in world football. Rodri helped Spain win trophies, as well as helping City win CL. Rice needs to go up to that level.

Oddegard isn't just mental, he doesn't have thar KDB, Bergkamp pass thar unlocks low blocks, tight games. Also his shooting and finishing is Abysmal.

Havertz had a purple patch last season, people got carried away with it. Also people now making out that him being injured is a loss to Arsenal. This is sam e guy who is reason we lost to Newcastle and Man united in the domestic cups

 

[Amjid Javed]

Agree. Odegaard and Havertz seem to get unjustified and extensive criticism from certain Gooners. I find it laughable, how anyone can compare a failure in Maddison to Odegaard. Its virtually, chalk and cheese.

Unjustified criticism

One players the club captain, the other is highest paid player at club. In both cases they are failures.

How is Maddison a failure? Oddegard isn't exactly lifting trophies is he?

 

[Amjid Javed]

Imagine having a highest player at club and him being no where to be seen vs Bayern last season. Nowhere to be seen at eithad last season

Then was main reason that Germany lost to Spain in euros.

The same then was same reason Arsenal went out to Newcastle and Man united in domestic cups.

But supposedly he's being misused and best being used as a number 10



Supposedly the criticism is unjustified

 

[Amjid Javed]

Please elaborate on how Maddison has had a better career?

Not even a gauranteed starter at spurs. Subbed off a lot games after disaster performances.

Relegated twice I think?

Doesn't even make the England squad when all sorts of thrash get called up.

Yes he won a cup with Leicester.

Currently 15th in the league? I haven't checked.

Odegaard has been poor this season but to say Maddison has had a better career when the level and expectation of him has always been low.
Hence when he gets his G/A it looks better than it actually is.

You don't have to Like Odegaard but to say Maddison is better when he plays with zero expectations.

Where I do agree is that odegaard needs to live up to the expectations and get over this weak mental block cos when he is like he was last season he's 10 levels above Maddison.

In regards to level of expectation. Let's have a look when oddegard joined Arsenal.

At that time 2020-21 leicester were regularly pushing for European football.

19-20 - 5th just missed out on CL after poor end to season
20-21 - 5th just missed out on CL after poor end of season.
21-22 - 8th

At that point in time leicesters objective was to try and get into Europe and win an FA cup or league cup.

At that point in time what was Arsenal's objective? They were languishing in 8th. The certainly wasn't any bigger expectation at the time.

Even if you look at maddison joining spurs, the objective of the club was to make top 4 and qualify for the CL so that levy is happy.

What's Arsenal objective? Pretty much the same make top 4, make CL so kronkes are happy. You know that, I know that.

So how is the expectation of oddegard during the periods I've mentioned above any different.

Expectation on both players during those time periods has been no different.

My comments are simple on "expectation". the reality is if you look at those periods of times of both players the objectives were pretty similar. This isn't about entire historys of the clubs etc. This is simply looking at where those clubs were at a set point in time.

We don't act like a big club, so let's not act like oddegard has huge pressure to deliver he doesn't. If he did and Arsenal acted like a big club they would have either got a better player in by now or taken the captaincy of him.

 

[MK7Z]

So why hasn't the great Maddison took his teams anywhere significant then if he is so good.

Forget odegaard for a second.

What makes maddison be rated the way he is as though he is some mentality monster?

OK using your own post. Leicester were challenging for top 4 and missed out. Where was he then. Big players stand up right when needed?
If Leicester had Maddison the magnificent why didn't they get top 4 those seasons? Better still where was he when they got relegated? Surely this guy who has had a better career than odegaard could help a team avoid relegation right?

So he's had a better career because he almost made top 4 a couple of times completely ignoring he's been relegated the same number of times.

Yet one guy who has made top 4, 3times ( not like that's an achievement) ia ridiculed?

There's the standards.

I'm not blindly defending Odegaard but I take issue with people when they have these hot takes and opinions and I'm always interested in a discussion as to why they have this opinion.

Anyway I know u have a personal dislike for Odegaard lol. So not gonna carry on with this.

I'll wait for the better career comment to be justified by the brother who made it.

 

[aboveandbeyond]

Unjustified criticism

One players the club captain, the other is highest paid player at club. In both cases they are failures.

How is Maddison a failure? Oddegard isn't exactly lifting trophies is he?

But if Arsenal don't win anything this season, then it's a collective failure, not just because of Havertz and Odegaard lol

Maddison level of performance is not consistent of a top player, he goes missing on a regular basis.

 

[aboveandbeyond]

So why hasn't the great Maddison took his teams anywhere significant then if he is so good.

Forget odegaard for a second.

What makes maddison be rated the way he is as though he is some mentality monster?

OK using your own post. Leicester were challenging for top 4 and missed out. Where was he then. Big players stand up right when needed?
If Leicester had Maddison the magnificent why didn't they get top 4 those seasons? Better still where was he when they got relegated? Surely this guy who has had a better career than odegaard could help a team avoid relegation right?

So he's had a better career because he almost made top 4 a couple of times completely ignoring he's been relegated the same number of times.

Yet one guy who has made top 4, 3times ( not like that's an achievement) ia ridiculed?

There's the standards.

I'm not blindly defending Odegaard but I take issue with people when they have these hot takes and opinions and I'm always interested in a discussion as to why they have this opinion.

Anyway I know u have a personal dislike for Odegaard lol. So not gonna carry on with this.

I'll wait for the better career comment to be justified by the brother who made it.

Leicesters Golden period was built mainly around Kante, Riyad Mahrez, and jamie Vardy. Top Top performers.

 

[Amjid Javed]

So why hasn't the great Maddison took his teams anywhere significant then if he is so good.

Forget odegaard for a second.

What makes maddison be rated the way he is as though he is some mentality monster?

OK using your own post. Leicester were challenging for top 4 and missed out. Where was he then. Big players stand up right when needed?
If Leicester had Maddison the magnificent why didn't they get top 4 those seasons? Better still where was he when they got relegated? Surely this guy who has had a better career than odegaard could help a team avoid relegation right?

So he's had a better career because he almost made top 4 a couple of times completely ignoring he's been relegated the same number of times.

Yet one guy who has made top 4, 3times ( not like that's an achievement) ia ridiculed?

There's the standards.

I'm not blindly defending Odegaard but I take issue with people when they have these hot takes and opinions and I'm always interested in a discussion as to why they have this opinion.

Anyway I know u have a personal dislike for Odegaard lol. So not gonna carry on with this.

I'll wait for the better career comment to be justified by the brother who made it.

My point was a simple one. You stated that Maddison had played with zero expectations which is not true (that's the point I was replying to) When the reality is that when oddegard joined Arsenal. Maddison had expectations to try and get Leicester into Top 4 and win a trophy. What were oddegards expectations at start of his Arsenal career? The certainly weren't higher expectations then Leicester at the time. That was my point and I made it clear on my previous post.
Again my post was in relation to "expectations"

Now to Answer your question (in regards to the topic you raised, about big players delivering)

Why didn't Leicester make top 4 twice? Yeah because key players failed to deliver in key matches at end of season. Also they had Breedon Rogers as manager, someone who bottles it under pressure. (No different to Arteta)

Where has oddegard been when Arsenal bottled top 4? Bottled a PL title? Bottle a league cup semi final?

Let's not act like oddegard has shown he can get over the line.

Also of you want to talk about calling out players for not making top 4, or even been relegated. Vardy was also part of that squad. Are we calling Vardy substandard? He couldn't help his club stay up. Yet was same guy that helped his team win a title. So saying why maddison could save Leicester and putting it down as a black mark agaibst him. Alot of that squad that squad that was relegated had won a PL title.

There have been other instances before of players doing well at top end of PL and then being relegated. Look at the Leeds team in early 2000s who finished high up in league, got to a CL semi final had quality players and were relegated.

Not at any point in my previous post when I replied to you, did I bring up

- who had better career
- who was better player

My response was solely on "expectation"

I knew someone would fall into trap of bringing up things I didn't mention

 

[Amjid Javed]

But if Arsenal don't win anything this season, then it's a collective failure, not just because of Havertz and Odegaard lol

Maddison level of performance is not consistent of a top player, he goes missing on a regular basis.

Read my previous response "today", it was on expectations on players at a given time.

Did I mention maddision being a better player? No

Did I say Maddison had a better career? No

So just like brother @MK7Z

Your bring up points I didn't bring up.

2nd person to fall into a simple trap

 

[MK7Z]

My point was a simple one. You stated that Maddison had played with zero expectations which is not true (that's the point I was replying to) When the reality is that when oddegard joined Arsenal. Maddison had expectations to try and get Leicester into Top 4 and win a trophy. What were oddegards expectations at start of his Arsenal career? The certainly weren't higher expectations then Leicester at the time. That was my point and I made it clear on my previous post.
Again my post was in relation to "expectations"

Now to Answer your question (in regards to the topic you raised, about big players delivering)

Why didn't Leicester make top 4 twice? Yeah because key players failed to deliver in key matches at end of season. Also they had Breedon Rogers as manager, someone who bottles it under pressure. (No different to Arteta)

Where has oddegard been when Arsenal bottled top 4? Bottled a PL title? Bottle a league cup semi final?

Let's not act like oddegard has shown he can get over the line.

Also of you want to talk about calling out players for not making top 4, or even been relegated. Vardy was also part of that squad. Are we calling Vardy substandard? He couldn't help his club stay up. Yet was same guy that helped his team win a title. So saying why maddison could save Leicester and putting it down as a black mark agaibst him. Alot of that squad that squad that was relegated had won a PL title.

There have been other instances before of players doing well at top end of PL and then being relegated. Look at the Leeds team in early 2000s who finished high up in league, got to a CL semi final had quality players and were relegated.

Not at any point in my previous post when I replied to you, did I bring up

- who had better career
- who was better player

My response was solely on "expectation"

I knew someone would fall into trap of bringing up things I didn't mention

I'll be honest bro. I've not read this post. Not out of the disrespect or anything but it's to long and I'm sure you've made your point whatever it is.

My post was aimed at someone else but you jumped in. I'll wait for their reply

 

[Amjid Javed]

I'll be honest bro. I've not read this post. Not out of the disrespect or anything but it's to long and I'm sure you've made your point whatever it is.

My post was aimed at someone else but you jumped in. I'll wait for their reply

Yeah sure I'm sure @topspin will reply.

If you want my views

Both oddegard and Maddison are decent players at best.

Maddison can't stay fit, his international career isn't non existent, overall career their is nothing to rife home about.

Oddegard is a failure at international level, his record and performances are abysmal. (One recent good game vs Israel don't change that. His overall career he's not achieved anything of any significance.

Why I don't rate him? It's not hatred.

The guys the club captain and doesn't deliver. Your at a "big club" his job is to lead from front with performances. He's no different to ozil in aspect interms of ghosting in games. But because he's the club poster boy he gets more protection than others

 

[MK7Z]

I mean this cameo sums odegaards season up. Plays like a guy who is a guaranteed starter.