British Pakistanis, less successful compared to North American Pakistanis?

[James]

Get a grip. While PP is a great website and clearly a lot of effort is put in by the admins, it doesn't prove anything about british Pakistanis. And it certainly doesn't mean people shouldn't criticize britpaks. Or that W63L35's posts are attributed to them.

Agreed, every writer and innovator deserves their own measure of respect.

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

Are there any Pakistani Pakistanis on PP?

 

[eradicator]

How often do we hear about US Pakistanis being involved in Grooming Scandals compared to Brit Pakistanis who have not only been an utter disgrace to their own country but the whole Asian community in the UK.

Not to forget the Brit Pakistani connection to most terror activities in the UK, Some of them have also been involved in recruiting young people to take part in terrorism against the state by organizing a safe passage for them to get trained in Pakistan. Comparatively how many US pakistanis have been involved in terror actitivies ?

That would answer some of the questions.

 

[Shaddy]

People who came to Britain were not the same as the ones who came to USA and Canada. The ones that came to Britain came mostly as labor from the textile industry and when new dams were being made in Pakistan they also moved there from kashmir and other areas.

The ones that came to the US and Canada though for the most part were people who were engineers, doctors, highly educated class. The upbringing was different and so was the education levels. Thats why incomes are higher for North American dispora because they were different people.

That is not to say that UK dispora did not work hard and succeed - they did! Lots of wealthy Pakistanis in the UK who have their own businesses but education levels have remained low. Its the new generation in the UK that is taking univeristy seriously. But it was more hardship and struggle and then lot more issues in the further generations on drugs and what nots! Whereas in the US it was mainly people working in highly qualified fields and having different types of businesses ad for the most part the new generation has stayed away from drugs and things of such sort.

Same thing with Canada with the fact that you can only get immigration to Canada if you have some form of higher education so clearly different crowd came to Canada in the 90s and 2000s.

They are successful in their own ways. But North American dispora has way higher education levels.

Very nicely put. Most Pakistanis in UK are Kashmiri/Mirpuri with not a great educational background and it doesnt seem to be getting much better either. However with the American Pakistanis it is totally different.

 

[mani1]

Very nicely put. Most Pakistanis in UK are Kashmiri/Mirpuri with not a great educational background and it doesnt seem to be getting much better either. However with the American Pakistanis it is totally different.

Not in London they are not, whats the reason of only Bengali's being worse of there?

 

[Saudi]

Are there any Pakistani Pakistanis on PP?

I'm one I guess. I don't hold any other country's passport, and have spent a few years of my adult life in Pakistan. But most of my life has been spent in the Middle East so maybe I belong in another category....

 

[Shaddy]

Not in London they are not, whats the reason of only Bengali's being worse of there?

Ive lived more than half of my life in London, when it comes to education we are still way behind the Indians. I dont know much about Bengalis.

 

[mani1]

The proportion of people living in poverty (the "poverty rate") varies considerably between ethnic groups. Among London's Indian population, it is no higher than among the White population, but it is twice as high among Black Africans and higher still among Bangladeshis and Pakistanis.

Work rates among BME groups in London are lower than for White British. About 20% of White British working-age adults in London do not work, compared to 60% of Bangladeshi and 40% of Pakistani adults.

Low pay is much more common among Pakistani and Bangladeshi employees than White or Black Caribbean employees

The high poverty rates experienced by most BME groups can only partly be accounted for by their generally lower work rates. In particular, just a third of the 'excess' poverty experienced by London's Pakistani and Bangladeshi populations can be accounted for by the much lower work rates among both men and women. Other factors such as low pay are critical.


http://www.londonspovertyprofile.org.uk/indicators/topics/ethnicity-low-income-and-work/

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

I'm one I guess. I don't hold any other country's passport, and have spent a few years of my adult life in Pakistan. But most of my life has been spent in the Middle East so maybe I belong in another category....

Yep. Another category unfortunately.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I have noticed that British Pakistanis have segregated themselves from the mainstream communities and live isolated more like ghettos. Do not get offended by the word ghettos, just look up how it was originated. In order to be integral part of a system, one has to understand the characteristics of it and be compatible to be able to fit in. It could only happen through higher education and getting into mainstream job market and be productive of that society. Unfortunately they lack all those skills (majority of them).

Since when did it become cool to post such nonsense?

 

[Saudi]

Yep. Another category unfortunately.

We(Middle Eastern expats) don't really identify ourselves as anything but whatever country we originally belong too. Neither do Middle Eastern governments attempt to integrate us into their country. So in that sense we are quite different from British/American Pakistanis because there is absolutely no attempt from us to assimilate. I mean most of my friends didn't even know how to speak Arabic despite being born and bred in UAE/Saudi/Qatar etc.

In essence the white collar workers from Pakistan are just there for the money/opportunity to move abroad to the West.

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

We(Middle Eastern expats) don't really identify ourselves as anything but whatever country we originally belong too. Neither do Middle Eastern governments attempt to integrate us into their country. So in that sense we are quite different from British/American Pakistanis because there is absolutely no attempt from us to assimilate. I mean most of my friends didn't even know how to speak Arabic despite being born and bred in UAE/Saudi/Qatar etc.

In essence the white collar workers from Pakistan are just there for the money/opportunity to move abroad to the West.

I was being facetious.

Many would argue that people in Britain have failed to try to assimilate....


I still think that if you live long enough in another country your characteristics do change even if its the middle east (but obviously in a different way to UK or US)

 

[Saudi]

I was being facetious.

Many would argue that people in Britain have failed to try to assimilate....


I still think that if you live long enough in another country your characteristics do change even if its the middle east (but obviously in a different way to UK or US)

I'm studying in the UK so I can tell the difference between expats and British Pakistanis. I have lived in the Middle East(various countries mostly Saudi though) for most of my life and I know the difference. Nobody I know(Pakistanis) wears Arab dress, or watches their TV shows/Sports, nor do most even know the language. Its much more of a bubble that expats live in, we are very insular.

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

I'm studying in the UK so I can tell the difference between expats and British Pakistanis. I have lived in the Middle East(various countries mostly Saudi though) for most of my life and I know the difference. Nobody I know(Pakistanis) wears Arab dress, or watches their TV shows/Sports, nor do most even know the language. Its much more of a bubble that expats live in, we are very insular.

I understand. But I guess your outlook on life must change having lived in that environment

 

[shan]

despite American Pakistanis being less in number compared to their UK counterparts ( for every 100 british pakistani, there are 58 american pakistanis)..they send more remittance to Pakistan. you can check the data here http://www.sbp.org.pk/ecodata/Homeremit.pdf

surely they are more beneficial to Pakistan.

They are over million by now at least. So difference in population isnt that high anymore. And the reason American Pakistanis send more money back home is because they dont consider USA their home. No one wants to be humiliated every day for being Pakistani muslim in USA.

 

[shan]

How many successful Pakistani businessmen and entrepreneurs have Britain produced.

Other than Shahid Khan we have:

Michael Chowdry (1955–2001) – Forbes 400 businessman and later the founder of air cargo company Atlas Air which in 2001 was worth in excess of $1.39 billion.

Fred Hassan – was the Chairman of the Board and Chief Executive Officer of pharmaceutical company Schering-Plough from 2003 until November 3, 2009 when the company completed its merger with Merck & Co.

Safi Qureshey – Former CEO and co-founder of AST Research (a fortune-500 company with revenues in excess of 2.5 billion USD).

And many more.......

This is what Shahid Khan faced everyday, he was constantly reminded that he is terrorist.

http://tribune.com.pk/story/457115/...istani-born-billionaire-from-buying-nfl-team/

Americans can never be as tolerant as British are.

 

[GentleMan]

They are over million by now at least. So difference in population isnt that high anymore. And the reason American Pakistanis send more money back home is because they dont consider USA their home. No one wants to be humiliated every day for being Pakistani muslim in USA.

where is the source for usa and uk pakistani expats figures? american pakistanis send money because they dont love america, and british pakistanis send money because?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Compared to UK? One just have to see how muslim celebraties are treated there. Many Pakistanis families has left USA, and how can one forget killing of sikhs. Just goes to show how ignorant Americans are compared to British people.

American muslims cant even dream of having their own version of Anjum in USA. If not for weather then i would have moved to UK by now.

Yes the weather here is the only real downside, but even then a lot of States in the US are too hot for most of the year. Other than that I think I would find it difficult to live for long anywhere else. The Pakistanis here fit in quite well with the Brits (other than the HT type nutcases). We are outgoing and confident, whereas my impression of US Pakistanis is of meek, docile types who keep themselves to themselves.

Incidentally shan, how is life for Pakistani community in Spain? I hadn't realised there even was much of a community over there. I might have to pay a flying visit there this summer to check it out myself.

 

[shan]

where is the source for usa and uk pakistani expats figures? american pakistanis send money because they dont love america, and british pakistanis send money because?

700.000 in 2005 which must be over million by now. The source is Pakistani Embassy in USA.

 

[GentleMan]

700.000 in 2005 which must be over million by now. The source is Pakistani Embassy in USA.

1,200,000 in 2010 in UK, so it must be 1800,000 by now.

 

[ElRaja]

comparing outright wealth as a mark of success between American and british pakistanis is a fools errand.

by the same argument british english folk could be considered under achievers compared to americans of english ancestry as im sure there are far more billionaires of english ancestry in the usa as compared to the uk.

getting wealthy to american levels is impossible in britain, thats just a fact. that's why the richest britishers all were born and made their wealth in foreign countries primarily.

edit @ gentleman, census was done last year, i think there are 1,190,000 brits of pakistani descent.

 

[shan]

Yes the weather here is the only real downside, but even then a lot of States in the US are too hot for most of the year. Other than that I think I would find it difficult to live for long anywhere else. The Pakistanis here fit in quite well with the Brits (other than the HT type nutcases). We are outgoing and confident, whereas my impression of US Pakistanis is of meek, docile types who keep themselves to themselves.

Incidentally shan, how is life for Pakistani community in Spain? I hadn't realised there even was much of a community over there. I might have to pay a flying visit there this summer to check it out myself.

Its quite difficult because of crisis and many are going back to Pakistan. 90% dont have Spanish passports so cant move to other EU countries for work.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Its quite difficult because of crisis and many are going back to Pakistan. 90% dont have Spanish passports so cant move to other EU countries for work.

I see, so the Pak community are not Spanish citizens, but expats who moved there for work? The financial difficulties there have had a big impact for Brits too. Many who moved there are selling up and coming back to UK now, guess the sunshine only goes so far

-------> UK

 

[mani1]

comparing outright wealth as a mark of success between American and british pakistanis is a fools errand.

by the same argument british english folk could be considered under achievers compared to americans of english ancestry as im sure there are far more billionaires of english ancestry in the usa as compared to the uk.

getting wealthy to american levels is impossible in britain, thats just a fact. that's why the richest britishers all were born and made their wealth in foreign countries primarily.

edit @ gentleman, census was done last year, i think there are 1,190,000 brits of pakistani descent.

Exactly looking at the figure the American Indians are doing a lot better than the British Indians too.

 

[saadibaba]

They are over million by now at least. So difference in population isnt that high anymore. And the reason American Pakistanis send more money back home is because they dont consider USA their home. No one wants to be humiliated every day for being Pakistani muslim in USA.

Maybe its because they make more money than their british counterparts.

Pakistani Americans on average make more money than average American and also average white American.

British Pakistanis make less than half of what average white british citizens make.

Huge difference.

As far as not considering US their home. No wonder Pakistani population has doubled since Sept 11th 2001. If that was the case, we would have seen a decrease in the population not doubling of the number.

But of course gut feeling and preconceived notions count more then stats, numbers and logic.

 

[saadibaba]

This is what Shahid Khan faced everyday, he was constantly reminded that he is terrorist.

http://tribune.com.pk/story/457115/...istani-born-billionaire-from-buying-nfl-team/

Americans can never be as tolerant as British are.

This is equivalent to SRK's recent tantrum about being Muslim in India. Used to give a dramatic touch to the story.

He still lives in America and is making even more money than before.

Who doesn't face a few idiotic comments in their life. He himself admits that he epitomizes the American dream.

 

[shan]

Maybe its because they make more money than their british counterparts.

Pakistani Americans on average make more money than average American and also average white American.

British Pakistanis make less than half of what average white british citizens make.

Huge difference.

As far as not considering US their home. No wonder Pakistani population has doubled since Sept 11th 2001. If that was the case, we would have seen a decrease in the population not doubling of the number.

But of course gut feeling and preconceived notions count more then stats, numbers and logic.

Population could have increased 100x if Americans allowed it, this doesnt prove anything. They go there make money and come back to Pakistan to enjoy retirement.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Maybe its because they make more money than their british counterparts.

Pakistani Americans on average make more money than average American and also average white American.

British Pakistanis make less than half of what average white british citizens make.

Huge difference.

As far as not considering US their home. No wonder Pakistani population has doubled since Sept 11th 2001. If that was the case, we would have seen a decrease in the population not doubling of the number.

But of course gut feeling and preconceived notions count more then stats, numbers and logic.

I read an article yesterday that the UK was the preferred destination for Pakistanis when compared to the US.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Maybe its because they make more money than their british counterparts.

Pakistani Americans on average make more money than average American and also average white American.

British Pakistanis make less than half of what average white british citizens make.

Huge difference.

Stats don't really tell the whole story though. British Pakistani immigrants tend to be low skilled, whereas America is much stricter in allocating citizenship and so can afford to cherry pick the high skilled applicants from around the world.

If we did the same in Britain, you'd see a sharp upturn in the figures as unlike whites, Pakistani stats get diluted by the stream of low skilled immigrants.

Among the more established communities there is more success the longer they have been here. 2nd and 3rd generation Punjabis ( probably first ones here) are now well established in business and professional circles. Mirpuris/Kashmiris are also starting to move up the ladder as they put more focus on business and education.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Indeed Cpt. In a few years the new stream of Pathan immigrants who are more keen on dying their hair blonde and wearing 80's style tight jeans will also start contributing.

 

[GentleMan]

The welfare system in UK might be a big reason why it is preferred over US in general..but I expect for qualified people US would be the preferred country.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Indeed Cpt. In a few years the new stream of Pathan immigrants who are more keen on dying their hair blonde and wearing 80's style tight jeans will also start contributing.

I was going to mention them as well. There are a lot of refugees coming from Afghanistan and Pakistan who arrived on the lowest rung of the ladder but they are already making inroads into the small business world in the UK. Britain is unlike America, it doesn't have Puerto Ricans and Mexicans on the border to provide cheap labour, so there will always be a steady influx of low skilled immigrants so the stats will reflect this.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

The welfare system in UK might be a big reason why it is preferred over US in general..but I expect for qualified people US would be the preferred country.

You cant welfare straight away, takes around 5 years so I dont think thats the reason. Unless they are thinking long term.

 

[saadibaba]

This article has been quoted earlier in this thread but let me quote it again, good read.

Pakistanis Find U.S. an Easier Fit Than Britain

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/21/us/21devon.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

 

[ElRaja]

This article has been quoted earlier in this thread but let me quote it again, good read.

Pakistanis Find U.S. an Easier Fit Than Britain

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/21/us/21devon.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

i skimmed through that article bro, and apart from a few figures nearly everything is the opinion of an american, who if i read correctly has not even lived in britain.

as far as susceptibility to terrorist ideologies goes, thats by the by for a counry like britain, where popular thought is not hegemonised by large private media groups. you will find a far wider gamut of political opinion in britain from left to right and all between, it comes with the territory that if people have freedom of political expression it is only natural some will be drawn towards what we may consider corrupted or dangerous ideologies.

what the article fails to mention is all the brits of pakistani descent who have contributed to mainstream politics and have reached important positions, with far more penetration in the british poltical system than their american counterparts.

im not saying everything is perfect in the uk, but that article in itself is superficial and provides no real depth or inisight.

 

[GentleMan]

why are people only talking about economic inequality.. what about the negative news that come out regularly from UK. of course, they are a minority of the total UK pakistani population, but still why US Pakistanis haven been in news and UK pakistanis have made negative headlines?

 

[mani1]

why are people only talking about economic inequality.. what about the negative news that come out regularly from UK. of course, they are a minority of the total UK pakistani population, but still why US Pakistanis haven been in news and UK pakistanis have made negative headlines?

(Reuters) - Pakistani merchants and job seekers in the United States, still reeling from economic hardship since the September 11 attacks of 2001, are posing as Indians to avoid discrimination in the wake of the Times Square bomb attempt.

Once again, a man of Pakistani descent is at the center of a security story, leading to backlash against the Pakistani-American community.




Faisal Shahzad, 30, a naturalized American born in Pakistan, was arrested on Monday, two days after authorities say he parked a crude car bomb in New York's busy Times Square.

Suspected September 11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and convicted 1993 World Trade Center bomber Ramzi Yousef are also of Pakistani decent, and anti-American militants fighting U.S. forces in Afghanistan take refuge in Pakistan.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/05/07/us-timessquare-backlash-idUSTRE64655Y20100507

 

[saadibaba]

i skimmed through that article bro, and apart from a few figures nearly everything is the opinion of an american, who if i read correctly has not even lived in britain.

as far as susceptibility to terrorist ideologies goes, thats by the by for a counry like britain, where popular thought is not hegemonised by large private media groups. you will find a far wider gamut of political opinion in britain from left to right and all between, it comes with the territory that if people have freedom of political expression it is only natural some will be drawn towards what we may consider corrupted or dangerous ideologies.

what the article fails to mention is all the brits of pakistani descent who have contributed to mainstream politics and have reached important positions, with far more penetration in the british poltical system than their american counterparts.

im not saying everything is perfect in the uk, but that article in itself is superficial and provides no real depth or inisight.

We are less than 1% of the total population of America and are comparatively recent immigrants. Yet, we do have a political presence and it continue to get bigger with time and as we grow in numbers.

Here are some of the examples:

Saqib Ali – Delegate to the Maryland House of Delegates, having won the right to represent the 39th District in the 2006 elections.

Saghir "Saggy" Tahir – New Hampshire State Representative. He is the only elected Muslim in the Republican Party.In the 2006 elections, he was re-elected for a fourth term to represent Ward 2, District 9 in his home town of Manchester.

Tahir Ali – The first Pakistani American elected as a National delegate-at-large (R) from Massachusetts in 1992.

Huma Abedin – Aide to United States Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton who served as traveling chief of staff during Clinton's campaign for the Democratic nomination in the 2008 presidential election.

Sada Cumber – First United States Ambassador to the Organisation of the Islamic Conference.

Shamila N. Chaudhary – U.S. Government policy adviser.

Haroon Saleem – Mayor of Granite Falls, Washington.

Mohammad Ali Chaudry – Was elected mayor of Bernards Township, New Jersey in 2004. Also a Lecturer at Rutgers School of Business – Camden.

Arif Alikhan – Former appointee to the Obama Administration where he served as Assistant Secretary for Policy Development at the United States Department of Homeland Security. He is also a former Deputy Mayor of Homeland Security and Public Safety for the City of Los Angeles and visiting Professor of Homeland Security and Counterterrorism at the National Defense University's (NDU) College of International Security Affairs in Washington, D.C.

Shirin R. Tahir-Kheli – White house appointee at various senior posts in the executive branch and the State department during 5 Republican administrations.

 

[saadibaba]

Economics do matter as the most common reason for immigration is financial. I can understand that first generation Pakistani immigrants were mainly laborers and were mostly uneducated and poor but what about the second or third generation. Are there any stats to prove that they have done better than average white British citizens in terms of jobs or economic prosperity ?

 

[Buffet]

Economics do matter as the most common reason for immigration is financial. I can understand that first generation Pakistani immigrants were mainly laborers and were mostly uneducated and poor but what about the second or third generation. Are there any stats to prove that they have done better than average white British citizens in terms of jobs or economic prosperity ?

If first generation immigrants were far below average population then you can't expect 2nd or even 3rd generation to make a huge jump to overtake average population. It will take some time. Educated families can provide better education and opportunities for next generation, be it US or UK. May be from 3rd generation and onward, it's useless to keep harping about 1st generation being less educated but it does have an impact on 2nd generation for sure.

 

[mani1]

Economics do matter as the most common reason for immigration is financial. I can understand that first generation Pakistani immigrants were mainly laborers and were mostly uneducated and poor but what about the second or third generation. Are there any stats to prove that they have done better than average white British citizens in terms of jobs or economic prosperity ?

Indians have not in the UK how do you expect Pakistanis too.
It is obviously much easier in the US to do better than average considering 30% are Hispanic or Black.

"The per capita income of Pakistanis is lower than the average. The former amounts to $20,585 and the latter to $25,035.

We should also note that the 14.9% poverty ratio among American Pakistanis is higher than the average of 10.2%"

http://ir.ide.go.jp/dspace/bitstream.../1/196_oda.pdf

So the US Pak poverty ratio is almost 50% more than the national average.

 

[MVP26]

This thread just shows the insecurity of Americans.

 

[GentleMan]

This thread shows the jealousy of the British.

 

[endymion248]

Started by an American PPer and dominated by them. Also, only American PPers claim themselves to be well better off than British ones, esp those who never set foot to britain. British PPer claim nothing about American PPers except for Shan and PATW's articles.

I'm going to go with American insecurity.

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

This thread shows the jealousy of the British.

Why should an individual be jealous of others?

Britpaks start with the education handicap so they are bound to find it harder.

But Britpaks have penetrated the higher eschalons of political influence far more than Ampaks have - despite the handicap.

We have a number of influential MPs and also Lord Nazir (though hasnt been a shining beacon recently)

Britpaks are entrepreneurial and have been quite successfull on that front.

Its the educational piece thats lacking which has resulted in far more paks going off the rails.

Thats also the reason why you won't find as many professional Britpaks as Ampaks.

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

If it wasnt for 9/11 the influence that Britpaks have politically would have been miles ahead now.

 

[Garuda]

Without any stats or survey and completely from personal experience (I have interacted with Pakistanis from US, UK and the ones from Pakistan )

1. Pakistanis settled in US :- Very very very polite, well mannered, friendly and smart. Not conservative and quite open minded.

2. Pakistanis from Pakistan(who have recently moved) : Nice, friendly, little reserved. Sometimes little low on confident.

3. Pakistanis settled in UK : Overconfident, not hard working, kind of arrogant and strange. They give an impression as if they have no interest in making a career.


Again, personal impression from people I have met. I am sure it can't be said about all.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

3. Pakistanis settled in UK : Overconfident, not hard working, kind of arrogant and strange. They give an impression as if they have no interest in making a career.

So pretty much like the indigenous Brits then. I've always argued that Pakistanis have integrated far better than most give us credit for.

 

[endymion248]

A career is so 20th century. When will the mentally retarded americans get that?

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Without any stats or survey and completely from personal experience (I have interacted with Pakistanis from US, UK and the ones from Pakistan )

1. Pakistanis settled in US :- Very very very polite, well mannered, friendly and smart. Not conservative and quite open minded.

2. Pakistanis from Pakistan(who have recently moved) : Nice, friendly, little reserved. Sometimes little low on confident.

3. Pakistanis settled in UK : Overconfident, not hard working, kind of arrogant and strange. They give an impression as if they have no interest in making a career.


Again, personal impression from people I have met. I am sure it can't be said about all.

Out of interest what are Indians like in those countries?

 

[Saudi]

So pretty much like the indigenous Brits then. I've always argued that Pakistanis have integrated far better than most give us credit for.

True. Your lot are one of the few species of Pakistanis that can queue somewhat respectably.

 

[endymion248]

Out of interest what are Indians like in those countries?

Smart, extrovert, handsome, tall, jolly, fun,... Need I continue?

 

[endymion248]

True. Your lot are one of the few species of Pakistanis that can queue somewhat respectably.

The only ones that rant about rain

 

[Garuda]

Out of interest what are Indians like in those countries?

You should ask that to a Pakistani Poster

 

[DeadlyVenom]

You should ask that to a Pakistani Poster

Nice way to avoid the question. I only have interacted with Uk born Indian sikhs of various 'extremes' and they have been good. UK indian hindus are pretty awful.

Indian students who come from India are well mannered and hard working but cheap and stingy. Also they rely on Uk Pakistanis for jobs and help with housing as UK Indians want nothing to so with them.

 

[Garuda]

So pretty much like the indigenous Brits then. I've always argued that Pakistanis have integrated far better than most give us credit for.

Well could be.

Like I said my observation could be few rare exception. But I do interact with some young Pakistanis (mostly in IT) as I have been traveling a lot between US, Canada and UK for last 12 years.

 

[GentleMan]

no need to derail the thread by bringing in indians..this is only about pakistanis so stick to the topic.

 

[Garuda]

Nice way to avoid the question.

An Indian would be nice with me most of the times as I am a fellow Indian. So how would my view matter ?

You should ask others how they feel interacting with Indians. (Though the thread is about Pakistanis)

 

[Mughlai]

I feel I might be uniquely qualified to speak on this matter as I am a neutral party (Indian muslim) with a soft spot for all Pakistanis and I have spent a substantial amount of time in both the US and UK.

Pakistanis in the US try to integrate themselves into the mainstream a lot more than Brit pakistanis. Even ones who move here straight from Pak give it an honest try while in England some seem to resist change. However, british pakistanis are generally speaking, friendlier (towards me atleast) and more confident in their identity than their American counterparts.

Dont think we should be using income and wealth statistics to justify either side of this argument as the US economy as a whole is way stronger than the UK economy.

However, I would be interested to see incarceration rates for pakistanis in both countries. I have never met a Pakistani in the US who has spent time in an american prison even though incarceration rates in the US are crazy high (Not saying it doesnt happen). However, I recently met 2 pakistani girls in england who mentioned offhandily that their brothers were in prison which completely shocked me. Not because they were in prison but the way they nonchalantly mentioned it as if its not a big deal.

Overall though I think its probably more fun being Pakistani in the UK with all the culture, food etc but perhaps easier to succeed in the US as far as wealth and status are concerned.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

^ Good post with some interesting points.

I reckon the incarceration rates would be higher in the UK than the US for Pakistanis.

The Indian Muslims I have personally interacted with in the UK are all Pro Pakistan and good friends with Pakistanis. The only time you notice a difference is when cricket matches are on and some of them support India.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

An Indian would be nice with me most of the times as I am a fellow Indian. So how would my view matter ?

You should ask others how they feel interacting with Indians. (Though the thread is about Pakistanis)

Most of the posters in the thread are Pakistanis commenting on Pakistanis.

Would be interesting to see if its as simple as Brit Paks V American Paks or is it that all subcontinental immigrants are better behaved and more successful in America.

 

[Garuda]

Most of the posters in the thread are Pakistanis commenting on Pakistanis.

Would be interesting to see if its as simple as Brit Paks V American Paks or is it that all subcontinental immigrants are better behaved and more successful in America.

You can combine the views and get a picture.

Like I said Indians have been nice to me in both places but it is natural.

In terms of success, US Indians are obviously more successful compared to UK. In US I could find many Indians in very very high positions in the companies I worked, but that is not same in UK.

 

[ElRaja]

Pakistanis in the US try to integrate themselves into the mainstream a lot more than Brit pakistanis. Even ones who move here straight from Pak give it an honest try while in England some seem to resist change. However, british pakistanis are generally speaking, friendlier (towards me atleast) and more confident in their identity than their American counterparts.

Dont think we should be using income and wealth statistics to justify either side of this argument as the US economy as a whole is way stronger than the UK economy.

However, I would be interested to see incarceration rates for pakistanis in both countries. I have never met a Pakistani in the US who has spent time in an american prison even though incarceration rates in the US are crazy high (Not saying it doesnt happen). However, I recently met 2 pakistani girls in england who mentioned offhandily that their brothers were in prison which completely shocked me. Not because they were in prison but the way they nonchalantly mentioned it as if its not a big deal.

interesting stuff mughlai, as far as your last point goes your probably right, since most gangs tend to form on ethnic lines its not surprising to find some pakistanis in the uk involved in criminal activities. i doubt theres any area in the us with the same concentration of pakistanis (100,000+ local communities).

having said that the most prolific guy i know who got incarcerated (currently in prison awaiting trial in baltimore) was an indian muslim, brother of a good friend of mine when i lived in a "ghetto" in london.

 

[saadibaba]

I feel I might be uniquely qualified to speak on this matter as I am a neutral party (Indian muslim) with a soft spot for all Pakistanis and I have spent a substantial amount of time in both the US and UK.

Pakistanis in the US try to integrate themselves into the mainstream a lot more than Brit pakistanis. Even ones who move here straight from Pak give it an honest try while in England some seem to resist change. However, british pakistanis are generally speaking, friendlier (towards me atleast) and more confident in their identity than their American counterparts.

Dont think we should be using income and wealth statistics to justify either side of this argument as the US economy as a whole is way stronger than the UK economy.

However, I would be interested to see incarceration rates for pakistanis in both countries. I have never met a Pakistani in the US who has spent time in an american prison even though incarceration rates in the US are crazy high (Not saying it doesnt happen). However, I recently met 2 pakistani girls in england who mentioned offhandily that their brothers were in prison which completely shocked me. Not because they were in prison but the way they nonchalantly mentioned it as if its not a big deal.

Overall though I think its probably more fun being Pakistani in the UK with all the culture, food etc but perhaps easier to succeed in the US as far as wealth and status are concerned.

I rest my case. Coming from a neutral observer the nay sayers should swallow the bitter pill and agree upon the fact that "British Pakistanis are less successful than North American Pakistanis" the question asked in the title of this thread. As for British Pakistanis having more fun, well if you are economically prosperous and wealthy, you will get to have fun and be at peace. Good points by Garuda too. Totally agree.

 

[saadibaba]

Why should an individual be jealous of others?

Britpaks start with the education handicap so they are bound to find it harder.

But Britpaks have penetrated the higher eschalons of political influence far more than Ampaks have - despite the handicap.

We have a number of influential MPs and also Lord Nazir (though hasnt been a shining beacon recently)

Britpaks are entrepreneurial and have been quite successfull on that front.

Its the educational piece thats lacking which has resulted in far more paks going off the rails.

Thats also the reason why you won't find as many professional Britpaks as Ampaks.

Lord Nazir is the best example you could give ?? The guy who uses anti-Semitism to gain sympathy for himself. Just goes to show what sells from Brit Pakistanis and how conspiracy minded and religiously driven they are. A Pakistani American politician could never rely on such cheap tactics to win votes.

 

[saadibaba]

Three in four Pakistani and Bangladeshi children in UK living in poverty at age 7
15 October 2010

Almost three-quarters of Pakistani and Bangladeshi children in the UK are being brought up in families that are living on poverty-level income, new research suggests.

The Millennium Cohort Study, which is tracking children born between 2000 and 2002, has found that 73 per cent of the Pakistani and Bangladeshi seven-year olds were in families estimated to be living on less than 60 per cent of the average national household income.

Among fathers, Pakistanis and Bangladeshis had the highest unemployment rate (15%) – well above the UK average of 6 per cent. Unemployment among black fathers was also high (11%) but Indians were less likely to be unemployed (4%) than whites (5.5%).

http://www.ioe.ac.uk/45857.html

 

[mani1]

Three in four Pakistani and Bangladeshi children in UK living in poverty at age 7
15 October 2010

Almost three-quarters of Pakistani and Bangladeshi children in the UK are being brought up in families that are living on poverty-level income, new research suggests.

The Millennium Cohort Study, which is tracking children born between 2000 and 2002, has found that 73 per cent of the Pakistani and Bangladeshi seven-year olds were in families estimated to be living on less than 60 per cent of the average national household income.

Among fathers, Pakistanis and Bangladeshis had the highest unemployment rate (15%) – well above the UK average of 6 per cent. Unemployment among black fathers was also high (11%) but Indians were less likely to be unemployed (4%) than whites (5.5%).

http://www.ioe.ac.uk/45857.html

Them stats over 10 years out of date. Also Nawaz Sharifs tax returns are probably more accurate than than those figures.
The Millennium Cohort Study, which is tracking children born between 2000 and 2002,

 

[mani1]

Lord Nazir is the best example you could give ?? The guy who uses anti-Semitism to gain sympathy for himself. Just goes to show what sells from Brit Pakistanis and how conspiracy minded and religiously driven they are. A Pakistani American politician could never rely on such cheap tactics to win votes.

Lord Nazir is not an elected MP neither is Baroness Warsi.

 

[Eagle_Eye]

Saadibaba,

How many US pakistanis in congress, senate at federal or state level?

How many are even local councillors?

 

[mani1]

I rest my case. Coming from a neutral observer the nay sayers should swallow the bitter pill and agree upon the fact that "British Pakistanis are less successful than North American Pakistanis" the question asked in the title of this thread. As for British Pakistanis having more fun, well if you are economically prosperous and wealthy, you will get to have fun and be at peace. Good points by Garuda too. Totally agree.

Why are US Indians more successful than Brit Indians?
Why are US Brit expats more successfull than Brits?
Why are US Chinese more successful than Brit Chines?
Why are US Bengalis more successful than Brit Bengalis?

 

[saadibaba]

Why are US Indians more successful than Brit Indians?
Why are US Brit expats more successfull than Brits?
Why are US Chinese more successful than Brit Chines?
Why are US Bengalis more successful than Brit Bengalis?

don't stress out too much dude, if it makes you feel any better, Brit Paks are more successful than another group in the entire world, happy.

 

[mani1]

don't stress out too much dude, if it makes you feel any better, Brit Paks are more successful than another group in the entire world, happy.

Why would I stress for I asked you a question which you haven't answered.

 

[saadibaba]

Saadibaba,

How many US pakistanis in congress, senate at federal or state level?

How many are even local councillors?

I sound like a broken record but ok, I will explain again.

We are <1% of the total US population, more like 0.3%, plus we are recent immigrants unlike Brit Paks who have been immigrating post WWII. Even then we have quite a number of people in local and national politics. I have given a list above, you can google more.

 

[GentleMan]

BritPaks have more numbers in parliament because of the numbers of asians concentrated in particular area..even in india dalits get elected to parliament because they come from area which has high dalit concentration...doesnt mean dalits are as a whole doing better than other communities. So the number of Britpaks in parliament means nothing.

 

[saadibaba]

Why would I stress for I asked you a question which you haven't answered.

What does your question have anything to do with this thread. If you know the answer, let me know, I am in no mood to look up stats on each and every question you have asked me.

 

[mani1]

don't stress out too much dude, if it makes you feel any better, Brit Paks are more successful than another group in the entire world, happy.

It is obviously much easier in the US to do better than average considering 30% are Hispanic or Black.

"The per capita income of Pakistanis is lower than the average. The former amounts to $20,585 and the latter to $25,035.

We should also note that the 14.9% poverty ratio among American Pakistanis is higher than the average of 10.2%"

http://ir.ide.go.jp/dspace/bitstream.../1/196_oda.pdf

So the US Pak poverty ratio is almost 50% more than the national average.

are these false figures

 

[saadibaba]

BritPaks have more numbers in parliament because of the numbers of asians concentrated in particular area..even in india dalits get elected to parliament because they come from area which has high dalit concentration...doesnt mean dalits are as a whole doing better than other communities. So the number of Britpaks in parliament means nothing.

True, which means we don't live in ghettos, we are integrated and spread out.

 

[saadibaba]

It is obviously much easier in the US to do better than average considering 30% are Hispanic or Black.

"The per capita income of Pakistanis is lower than the average. The former amounts to $20,585 and the latter to $25,035.

We should also note that the 14.9% poverty ratio among American Pakistanis is higher than the average of 10.2%"

http://ir.ide.go.jp/dspace/bitstream.../1/196_oda.pdf

So the US Pak poverty ratio is almost 50% more than the national average.

are these false figures

The median income of American Paks is higher than average Americans and even higher than white Americans. Are these stats wrong ?

And the link you have posted does not work.

 

[GentleMan]

And why do USPaks send more money to Pakistan compared to Britpaks, despite being less in number? With the level of love BritPaks show towards Pakistan, it only means that they are not as well off as their US counterparts.

 

[mani1]

The median income of American Paks is higher than average Americans and even higher than white Americans. Are these stats wrong ?

And the link you have posted does not work.

http://ir.ide.go.jp/dspace/bitstream/2344/839/1/196_oda.pdf