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Could Jasprit Bumrah be India's greatest ever bowler?

He needs to get used to bowling in swinging conditons.
He will be at his best against England. Didn't really have time to prepare against new Zealand
 
Let's stop drawing conclusions after half an innings.

He's played 4 tests in England prior to this and averaged 28. Decent.
 
Hazlewood and Archer both are hit the deck kinda bowlers and they were very good in Eng. Even Bumrah was exceptional in 2018. I think Bumrah is not the same he was in 2018. He has been worked out a bit

Hazlewood and Cummins play around with the seam a lot while bowling. If you watch Cummins' bowling closely, he bowls proper outswing and for the inswinger, he scrambles the seam a bit like Broad does. Similar is the case with Hazelwood.

So both Cummins and Hazlewood, even if they're quicker, they do generate outswing and inswing. Shami and Bumrah are just quick bowlers, they barely experiment with the seam. Shami just bowls with the dead upright seam always and never tries different things. Bumrah is not too different either, although he tried getting inswing in the last England tour and succeeded to an extent (That Jennings dismissal in Southampton). Yesterday both bowlers bowled into the wicket, when they should have just let the seam do the work.

Jofra I'll wait for a longer sample size in England. The ECB rolled out slow wickets for the Ashes fearing the Australian attack and they were not really the damp wickets that do plenty off the seam except maybe at Headingley. I proper swing/seam bowling conditions, i.e., damp wickets and overcast conditions, I don't think Jofra's style of bowling will be too effective.
 
He hasn't been the same for a long long time.

Let's be honest.

Deep down, we all knew currently on form, Bumrah is our weakest bowler.

But none of us (including me) would have had the guts to drop him for Siraj...hence the discussion to drop Shami/Ishant for him.
 
Even at his weakest point, saw him jag a ball from good length and almost got a lbw/bowled.

Reminded me of what the old Bumrah could do.

If he can click for a session or spell, he can wreak havoc.
 
Bumrah has hardly played any international cricket during last 6 months. This, I think has been his bane.

And no, IPL won't ever prepare him for hard grind of test cricket.
 
I will take him over any bowler India has ever produced. All these theories after just two sessions don't make any sense.
He performed well the last time we toured England. He just needs to pitchitoop like he did in West Indies.
 
Bumrah has been poor since a long time. That motivation to bend his back is no longer there. He is very contempt with bowling 4 overs for Ambani and earning millions. He should no longer be a sure starter for test cricket going forward. I would keep him for LOIs only for now and try hungry young seamers for test cricket.
 
Bumrah performances have dipped since he has started playing all 3 formats. Initially when he started playing test cricket his pace was up consistently and then he couldn't maintain it and got injured. Ever since he has not been the same. The problem India find themselves in is that they play a lot of cricket and he is going to be a GUN bowler for India in LOI formats so I think his test career will be a short one as compare to say shami / Ishant.

His uniqueness have made him a bowler he is but also his unique action required a lot of effort from his body as there is hardly any run up.
 
I will take him over any bowler India has ever produced. All these theories after just two sessions don't make any sense.
He performed well the last time we toured England. He just needs to pitchitoop like he did in West Indies.

If you are talking about his LOIs performances than yet but when it comes to test I think its obvious India has produced bowlers who have had longer careers than Bumrah would with his action. Zaheer khan and Shami are just two examples.
 
Our pace attack is overrated. Ashwin is still India's best bowler although he won't take a fi-fer in SENA.

Jadeja is just a darter and cheap wickets bully. He is Daniel Vettori level all-rounder.
 
Our pace attack is overrated. Ashwin is still India's best bowler although he won't take a fi-fer in SENA.

Jadeja is just a darter and cheap wickets bully. He is Daniel Vettori level all-rounder.

I think Jadeja is pretty good but yeah Ashwin is a legit ATG bowler better than Kumble and the best spinner of his generation
 
Bumrah was world number1 at 25 years of age. Not many have those credentials. He is still a serious talent and will make a comeback when play resumes.
 
If you are talking about his LOIs performances than yet but when it comes to test I think its obvious India has produced bowlers who have had longer careers than Bumrah would with his action. Zaheer khan and Shami are just two examples.

Just because his action is not orthodox does not mean he won't have a long career. He trains hard and has the physique to bowl that way.
 
If you are talking about his LOIs performances than yet but when it comes to test I think its obvious India has produced bowlers who have had longer careers than Bumrah would with his action. Zaheer khan and Shami are just two examples.

As good as Zaheer was and Shami is, both aren't/weren't as effective outside asia as they were in the subcontinent. Zaheer was primarily a wonderful swing bowler and therefore had success in England and NZ, but like most genuine swing bowlers, he was down on pace and therefore didn't have as much success in Aus and SA.

Shami is quicker on average than Zaheer, but his bowling style is skiddy and attacking the stumps, therefore he has had most success in the subcontinent. He doesn't swing the ball like Zaheer, so hasn't had great success outside asia barring a few exceptions.

Bumrah has had a very short career, but it was because of him that India won its first ever test series in Australia. That Australian batting line up wasn't great but they still could've drawn the series if not for Bumrah running through them in the boxing day test.
 
Bumrah is a impact bowler. He is inconsistent in 2-3 games & then wins u 1 game

Like in Australia - played 3 games & won 1 - Melbourne test but was not so great in the other 2 . Same thing he did last time in australia & england series

India plays 6 tests this summer in England - expect Bumrah to do very well in atleast 2 of them & win us both the games
 
Since 2018

Fifers for India in Away Tests

5 - Jasprit Bumrah
3 - Ishant Sharma
2 - Mohammed Shami
1 - Hardik Pandya
1 - Mohammed Siraj
1 - Kuldeep Yadav
 
Fi-fers are not a correct parameter to judge a bowler overall impact. I personally feel in test cricket, it is more WPM which matters, even more than averages.

If someone has bowl more and got more wickets, then it actually means he was the captain's go to man and leader of attack. That's why Ashwin will always be a better test bowler than Jadeja irrespective of whatever the averages suggest. Jadeja has WPM of 4.0 and Ashwin has 5.0.

Among pacers, it will be interesting to look at the WPM since 2018.
 
I think Jadeja is pretty good but yeah Ashwin is a legit ATG bowler better than Kumble and the best spinner of his generation

He ain't an ATG yet. 6 months ago, he was at same level to Lyon who is just a very good bowler.
 
Fi-fers are not a correct parameter to judge a bowler overall impact. I personally feel in test cricket, it is more WPM which matters, even more than averages.

If someone has bowl more and got more wickets, then it actually means he was the captain's go to man and leader of attack. That's why Ashwin will always be a better test bowler than Jadeja irrespective of whatever the averages suggest. Jadeja has WPM of 4.0 and Ashwin has 5.0.

Among pacers, it will be interesting to look at the WPM since 2018.

5 fers win u test matches ( unless it 5-125 ) . It signifies ur ability to run thru a side. That's what matters

Ashwin & Jadeja will never win u matches in SENA. Bumrah will do
 
Saving Jasprit Bumrah

The writing is on the wall.

Jasprit Bumrah is a special talent but he cannot continue to remain a "premier" and a match winning fast bowler if he is going to be mercilessly used in all 3 formats plus a regular IPL season.

It doesn't work for anyone let alone someone of his unique and injury prone bowling action.

It's about money and fame as well but Bumrah must decide if it's all about koney for him or he cares about leaving a legacy.

Needs to be used only in strategically important matches in my opinion. If he is unable to bowl his heart out it's a shame.
 
The writing is on the wall.

Jasprit Bumrah is a special talent but he cannot continue to remain a "premier" and a match winning fast bowler if he is going to be mercilessly used in all 3 formats plus a regular IPL season.

It doesn't work for anyone let alone someone of his unique and injury prone bowling action.

It's about money and fame as well but Bumrah must decide if it's all about koney for him or he cares about leaving a legacy.

Needs to be used only in strategically important matches in my opinion. If he is unable to bowl his heart out it's a shame.

There are a lot of factors to consider. Firstly, Bumrah's test record is quite good and he's only had a slump right now, specifically after that back injury he had. He is no doubt a world-class bowler across all formats, but, he needs to be monitored because of his unorthodox action, which puts strain on his back and sides.

For now, he can manage the workload of all three formats but once he crosses 32 years in age, that's when it will become difficult.

Eventually, Bumrah will have to make a choice on what his body allows him to do, and so, he will have to drop one of the three formats.

He is a great T20 bowler and a very good ODI bowler, so I'm assuming he will be dropped from test matches if the strain on his body becomes too much.

However, if he can remodel his action a bit, it will give him greater longevity.
 
5 fers win u test matches ( unless it 5-125 ) . It signifies ur ability to run thru a side. That's what matters

Ashwin & Jadeja will never win u matches in SENA. Bumrah will do

A self-explanatory example of Mohammad Shami in this inning.

This is a brilliant performance from him but I don't think it changes much if he had taken a fi-fer.
 
Bumrah has hardly played any international cricket during last 6 months. This, I think has been his bane.

And no, IPL won't ever prepare him for hard grind of test cricket.

He is taking international cricket for granted. Skipping intl games and remaining available for IPL won't do him any good. If he doesn't take any wicket he will become a liability because as I stated in the other thread he has a batting average of 2, 3 and 4 in tests, odis and t20s respectively. Bowlers like Srinath used to give it their all when they played for India and here we have players who keep skipping international games. :inti
 
He is taking international cricket for granted. Skipping intl games and remaining available for IPL won't do him any good. If he doesn't take any wicket he will become a liability because as I stated in the other thread he has a batting average of 2, 3 and 4 in tests, odis and t20s respectively. Bowlers like Srinath used to give it their all when they played for India and here we have players who keep skipping international games. :inti
Agree with this. This is mostly a case of misplaced priorities for Bumrah. The way he takes international cricket for granted is so bloody cringe worthy. Misses games for India at will on pretext of injuries, only to get miraculously fit by the time IPL arrives.

This year, he even scheduled his marriage during our LoI series against England so that he remains free during IPL.

Absolutely sickening attitude this. Used to be his big fan, not any longer.
 
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A self-explanatory example of Mohammad Shami in this inning.

This is a brilliant performance from him but I don't think it changes much if he had taken a fi-fer.

Great bowling by Shami - but at the end of the day NZ were at 135-5 & ended up taking a lead which has put India on the defensive now

This is difference between a 5 fer & just good bowling for a 4-76. Had Shami taken a 5-50 & bowled out NZ for say 170 , India wud have been in winning position. Right now we are basically trying to play out a draw

This is what Bumrah does on his good days - takes a 5 fer & a 8-9 wicket haul for the test at cheap average & puts India in winning position

India won 8 overseas tests in last 3 years & Bumrah played 7 of them & taken 47 wickets. Not a coincidence. Bumrah was the matchwinner in all 7 games

Only issue with Bumrah is his consistency. He needs to produce these match winning spells more frequently. rifhr now he does it once every 3-4 tests
 
He is taking international cricket for granted. Skipping intl games and remaining available for IPL won't do him any good. If he doesn't take any wicket he will become a liability because as I stated in the other thread he has a batting average of 2, 3 and 4 in tests, odis and t20s respectively. Bowlers like Srinath used to give it their all when they played for India and here we have players who keep skipping international games. :inti

There used to be less games in Srinath's times
 
There used to be less games in Srinath's times

There was no IPL in Srinath's time. So we wud never know. Most likely he wud have chosen IPL over international cricket. Money is massive factor for most humans

Look at Michael Holding. He keeps on about IPL but in 1977 he readily gave up West Indies cricket to join Kerry Packer circus
 
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Great bowling by Shami - but at the end of the day NZ were at 135-5 & ended up taking a lead which has put India on the defensive now

This is difference between a 5 fer & just good bowling for a 4-76. Had Shami taken a 5-50 & bowled out NZ for say 170 , India wud have been in winning position. Right now we are basically trying to play out a draw

This is what Bumrah does on his good days - takes a 5 fer & a 8-9 wicket haul for the test at cheap average & puts India in winning position

<B>India won 8 overseas tests in last 3 years & Bumrah played 7 of them & taken 47 wickets. Not a coincidence. Bumrah was the matchwinner in all 7 games</B>

Only issue with Bumrah is his consistency. He needs to produce these match winning spells more frequently. rifhr now he does it once every 3-4 tests

No doubt Bumrah has been a huge match winner overseas but he too is stuck at 5 fi-fers. My point was just w.r.t fi-fers that it can be misleading on some occasions but WPM won't be on most occasions. Cummins also has 5 fi-fers only.
 
Test matches played since Bumrah's debut:-

Shami 24
Ishant 23
Bumrah 20
Bhuvi 3

ODIs played since 01 Jan 2018( Bumrah's debut in tests):-

Shami 29
Bumrah 36
Bhuvi 36
Ishant 0

Not sure why does Bumrah only get flak for skipping international games or maybe we know why :inti
 
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Furthermore, since 01 Jan 2018( Bumrah's debut in tests):-

Most matches played for India in Tests/ODIs/T20s combined:-

Bumrah 74
Shami 58
Bhuvi 63
Ishant 23( only plays tests)

Counting since 2018 because this is when he started playing all three formats.

:inti
 
Furthermore, since 01 Jan 2018( Bumrah's debut in tests):-

Most matches played for India in Tests/ODIs/T20s combined:-

Bumrah 74
Shami 58
Bhuvi 63
Ishant 23( only plays tests)

Counting since 2018 because this is when he started playing all three formats.

:inti

Little point in making Bumrah play meaning less ODIs & T20s & burn him out

I wud preserve him for SENA tests & ICC events. Look at how South Affrica maintained Dale Steyn's workload in his early years
 
5fers show your ability to run through the side.

However its not the most important metric.

The metric is wickets per game and IMPACT performances.

Steyn is a master of it with or without 5fers.

He would come in at a crucial moment and swing the game.

Anderson in 2020 Chennai test took 3 wickets in the 2nd innings if I am not wrong but boy o boy did that swing the test. Of course, he couldn't have done it if not for Joe Root's performance in 1st innings or India screwing it up in 1st innings.

Bumrah has done well but it's not like he has single handedly run through batting attacks all the time and won us out of nowhere.

He was a very very important cog in the team and spearheaded our attack and took important wickets.

I remember when there was a good partnership going on in Trent Bridge and he broke it up and we won that game with ease.

That's what is impact.

And that's what wins you games.

Not blind 5fers.

In Melbourne he took 4 & 2 wickets. 6 wickets in total. 2 lower order bats.

India didn't win that game cos he took a 5fer.

India won cos there was all round contribution from everyone.

Today, Bumrah went missing and turned a 175-180 all out into 240.
 
Because of Bumrah, Shami's match winning effort went in vain.

It goes both ways.

Yes, Shami could have taken 6-50 and swung the game inspite of Bumrah but those kind of performances are rare for any bowler.

Just too much to ask.

Heck, even the great Mcgrath would mostly be at 2 or 3 or 4 wickets......while others would chip in. However McGrath would pick the most important wickets.
 
Think it was just an off-day for Bumrah, it doesn't mean he is overrated or finished. Bad weather and lack of bowling with the red ball over the last three months can all contribute towards a lack of rhythm. Complacency can't be allowed to set in with test match bowling, Bumrah just needs a few long spells to regain his sharpness. He's got the best possible bowling coach to help him sort out any technical issues that he might be having.
 
I think Bumrah will take wickets in second inning. But it'll be too late.

We needed him to support Shami-Ishant in first inning to restrict NZ below 200.
 
Think it was just an off-day for Bumrah, it doesn't mean he is overrated or finished. Bad weather and lack of bowling with the red ball over the last three months can all contribute towards a lack of rhythm. Complacency can't be allowed to set in with test match bowling, Bumrah just needs a few long spells to regain his sharpness. He's got the best possible bowling coach to help him sort out any technical issues that he might be having.
Hope what you said proves to be true and that this is just a minor blip for Bumrah and he comes back stronger in England tests.
 
Went for 68 in 9 overs with no wickets in CT17 final, took one wicket in WC19 Semifinal vs NZ and now wicketless in test championship final.

Things not going well so far in the big matches. Surely needs to improve this aspect.
 
There was no IPL in Srinath's time. So we wud never know. Most likely he wud have chosen IPL over international cricket. Money is massive factor for most humans

Look at Michael Holding. He keeps on about IPL but in 1977 he readily gave up West Indies cricket to join Kerry Packer circus

I know Holding is a hypocrite but isn't the whole WI team went for packer?
 
Bumrah - most hyped bowler across all formats. Choker too…..and he can’t catch…..or bat
 
Obviously he went missing in this match because it was a big final. He will be back with a bang in England series. :inti
 
Went for 68 in 9 overs with no wickets in CT17 final, took one wicket in WC19 Semifinal vs NZ and now wicketless in test championship final.
Those stats are worst.
He is happy to serve Ambani's, he shows more intent In IPL.
 
Went for 68 in 9 overs with no wickets in CT17 final, took one wicket in WC19 Semifinal vs NZ and now wicketless in test championship final.

Things not going well so far in the big matches. Surely needs to improve this aspect.

In 2016 T20 WC semi final also he went for 42 in 4 overs against West Indies and also dropped a catch of one of the top order batsman which I don't remember. We couldn't defend 190 odd in that match. :inti
 
From the bits I saw, he was hitting the bat hard and beating the bat frequently. The most noticeable difference from the pre injury was that he couldn't get the movement into the left handers and hence made it easier for the left handers to leave the ball. The other noticeable thing was his lengths and the reluctance to invite the drive from the right handers because of the fear of conceding runs.
 
Little point in making Bumrah play meaning less ODIs & T20s & burn him out

I wud preserve him for SENA tests & ICC events. Look at how South Affrica maintained Dale Steyn's workload in his early years
lol, and playing him in every IPL game year after year is very meaningful. Well done.

He has so far been a dud & a choker in SENA tests and ICC events with a few honourable exceptions. So that theory also doesn't cut much ice.
 
Those stats are worst.
He is happy to serve Ambani's, he shows more intent In IPL.
This.

Just so cringeworthy to see him playing each and every IPL game and then duly missing India's games on the pretext of injury. Like quite a few in this team, he has been guaranteed a slot in XI so why won't he pick and choose his games and series?
 
Bumrah relies on a combination of awkward action + pace.Not very skillful with the seam or wrist positions.
The day he loses some pace he'll be hit to all corners
 
Bumrah relies on a combination of awkward action + pace.Not very skillful with the seam or wrist positions.
The day he loses some pace he'll be hit to all corners

I will be interested in seeing what his stats are like since his stress fracture
 
He is still a good bowler for India. Seems to have lost his mojo and also noticed he is been giving away lots of leg byes
 
This Bumrah guy is not skilfull.He has zero skills with the ball.He can't even Seam the ball let alone swing.He only has that weird and ugly action and decent pace.
He won't be successful in test cricket.He is a good T20 bowler at best.
 
For Bumrah there certainly has been a trend in bigger games and not turning up. I hope he does not end up with big scares and start trying extra hard in future big games.
 
Bumrah relies on a combination of awkward action + pace.Not very skillful with the seam or wrist positions.
The day he loses some pace he'll be hit to all corners

He was swinging the ball miles both ways during WI tour 2019. It just disappeared after recovering from stress fracture


Eng tour will be very important
 
He is just 20 tests into his career. Dips in form and fitness will come. People are making it sound like he's a 100 test veteran. Form can dip at any time. Although chokers usually lose form at the most needed time constantly. Don't know if Bumrah is a choker or not, he seemed very rusty in WTC final. But i fear for his elbow, that stiff bowling action can not be good on his elbow joint in long term. He may end up with a tendon tear or tennis elbow.
 
He is just 20 tests into his career. Dips in form and fitness will come. People are making it sound like he's a 100 test veteran. Form can dip at any time. Although chokers usually lose form at the most needed time constantly. Don't know if Bumrah is a choker or not, he seemed very rusty in WTC final. But i fear for his elbow, that stiff bowling action can not be good on his elbow joint in long term. He may end up with a tendon tear or tennis elbow.

Bumrah is already 27 with a dangerous bowling action, if he can't make hay while the sun still shines upon him, he won't be having a good future.
 
Bumrah is lucky he is from India.Had he been from Pakistan or Bangladesh I am certain the umpires would have questioned his action.
 
World T20 will be key for him in terms of ICC tournaments as much of his legacy has built based on his T20 performance.

For tests, the series in England will obviously be key.
 
World T20 will be key for him in terms of ICC tournaments as much of his legacy has built based on his T20 performance.

For tests, the series in England will obviously be key.

Tbh even if india win 4-0 it’ll be meaningless they already lost what they had been doing all this for the past two years .
 
Tbh even if india win 4-0 it’ll be meaningless they already lost what they had been doing all this for the past two years .

It won't happen obviously but I would love if 4-0 happened in England and finally we defeat the demons against England in England which has been haunting us for more than a decade.
 
He has still got 3 to 5 year of peak left for test cricket

Maybe he will retire from tests to focus on shorter forms. Time for Siraj and party to get their hopes up now .
 
He was swinging the ball miles both ways during WI tour 2019. It just disappeared after recovering from stress fracture


Eng tour will be very important
LOL he can't swing the ball with that action.He can seam the ball but certainly can't swing the ball.
 
LOL he can't swing the ball with that action.He can seam the ball but certainly can't swing the ball.

He actually got prodigious swing with the Dukes in the Caribbean.


But he seems to have lost it completely, especially after his stress fracture.
 
He actually got prodigious swing with the Dukes in the Caribbean.


But he seems to have lost it completely, especially after his stress fracture.

Watch closely u'll notice bumrah swinging it in the direction of strong wind. Even then it wasnt prodigious
 
He was swinging the ball miles both ways during WI tour 2019. It just disappeared after recovering from stress fracture


Eng tour will be very important

When did he swing the ball miles? Please i would love to see a clip
 
In order to be Indias greatest bowler he needs to perform at hightes level for 7-8 years, at least. You can't have 3-4 good years and all of the sudden you are the best bowler.

It's now his real test starts, can he make a comeback and have another 3-4 for years like he previously had? If yes, he will not only be on of India's greatest but on of Worlds best bowlers. Pace bolwing is no joke and you have to praise Jimmy Anderson, Broad, Steyn from current bowlers who have delivered for many many years. Even Ishant Sharma have shown he can last long though his average is on the highter side in Test cricket.
 
Tbh even if india win 4-0 it’ll be meaningless they already lost what they had been doing all this for the past two years .

If India win the series in England, it will be better than a one off WTC win. This is test cricket, where bilateral series wins in SENA will be the top achievement.
 
Bumrah is done. He's toast. Batsmen have figured out how to twig his unorthodox action.

Time to move on. The surprise factor is no more.
 
In order to be Indias greatest bowler he needs to perform at hightes level for 7-8 years, at least. You can't have 3-4 good years and all of the sudden you are the best bowler.

It's now his real test starts, can he make a comeback and have another 3-4 for years like he previously had? If yes, he will not only be on of India's greatest but on of Worlds best bowlers. Pace bolwing is no joke and you have to praise Jimmy Anderson, Broad, Steyn from current bowlers who have delivered for many many years. Even Ishant Sharma have shown he can last long though his average is on the highter side in Test cricket.

Greatest? He wants to be India's richest bowler. :inti
 
Greatest? He wants to be India's richest bowler. :inti
Really disappointed by Bumrah. Not as much by his diminishing returns as an international bowler but by his attitude for taking international cricket for granted.
 
His IPL value will go down if his international performances keep plummeting like this.

His IPL value will be certainly down now if he fails in upcoming IPL. MI have other bowling options too
 
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