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Egyptians shooting themselves in the foot?

Did you read about the women that have been sexually assaulted in Cairo's Tahrir Square in last few days ?
 
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Garuda said:
I do not follow Egyptian politics in detail.

But wasn't this govt elected by the public around a year back ? What is so bad about it that the same public wants it out desperately ?

1 year is too less time to even change your opinion on the govt that majority elected.
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People there probably dont understand how democracy works.
 
Message of Tunisia, Egypt, Turkey :- Do not mix religion and politics.
 
Ims1 said:
Did you read about the women that have been sexually assaulted in Cairo's Tahrir Square in last few days ?
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100 women raped according to some reports.

anyway coming back to the issue at hand, all scripted. according to what I have heard via social media from egyptian commentators, the military has seemingly orchestrated events from the inauguration of morsi right up until his ouster. The so called petrol crisi has suddenly dissapppered overnight, power is back and other bits and bobs.

also they have started hunting down MB leadership and members. Probably looking for a backlash to try and prevent the MB from standing in the enxt elections if we have them and they are not rigged!

we learnt our lesson about military coups but egyptians seemingly will elarn the hard way. First nation I have seen that has willingly given up its own freedom to a small powerful elite in such a big way!
 
the Great Khan said:
no, message is we wont let you do that, because if you do we'll buy your army and send you packing. Now bend over and do our bidding.
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Yes only if one overlooks small matter of Morsi disbanding the parliament ( yeah that's right ) and altering the constitution.
 
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Leading Muslim Brotherhood officials being arrested by the military. Pro-MB demonstrations set for Friday.
 
161 said:
Shame on these Egyptians for not letting their country become the next Afghanistan or Pakistan.

Some of you posters complaining about this should go down to Tahrir Square and let these stooopid protesters know they are gonna be missing out on things like suicide bombings, beheadings, floggings and other such fun :)
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are those things because of the government or spillage due to the War on Terror?

quite a stupid post.
 
Eagle_Eye said:
Cairo has a population of 20 million, even if 1 million vocal are on the streets, that is still only 5% of the city.

The fear now is that the blueprint is set.... get 300,000 - 500,000 mobilized on the streets and cause disruption till you get your way.
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wasim-fan said:
This was not a 10 day affair. This has been brewing for more than 6 months now. Please tell me what measures Morsi has taken to address the concerns of those people. And this is not some minority we are talking about. You further antagonize them and reveal dictatorial fundamentalist traits people will come on the streets. Just 5 days back Morsi said, he will lose his position over his dead body. If this is how he choses to deal with the overwhelming angst of his people, then he was asking for this reaction.
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^^ @wasim-fan

You mean the 5% of Cairo residents, basically the elite and those dependent upon the Army, in one way or another, for their livelihoods? Read Eagle-Eye's post about the many millions who voted for Morsi - in fact more than 51% of the votes cast. What about those 'overwhelming' numbers of people?

Also, did you read my earlier post detailing how Army officers, current and former, hold every position of note in the civil service, local authorities, state and even private businesses? In fact, according to many estimates, the Army owns or controls over 40% of the Egyptian economy.
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
In revenge for what? Your source itself is quite a strange one,the link seems to be from a fundamentalist Christian source.
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This is not a credible source true but Coptics in the majority protested against Morsi's rule so wouldn't rule out any backlash. Fundamentalists on the verge of losing always ends up attacking the weak minority. Take a look at what fundamentalists in Bangladesh did after the court verdict.
 
Pakistani democracy seems more mature than Egypt's. At least our military now accepts it's role is not in government, But it will still meddle in our foreign policy. :))
 
It seems like the Egyptians care more for military dictatorships than democratically elected government.
 
Javelin said:
^^ @wasim-fan

You mean the 5% of Cairo residents, basically the elite and those dependent upon the Army, in one way or another, for their livelihoods? Read Eagle-Eye's post about the many millions who voted for Morsi - in fact more than 51% of the votes cast. What about those 'overwhelming' numbers of people?

Also, did you read my earlier post detailing how Army officers, current and former, hold every position of note in the civil service, local authorities, state and even private businesses? In fact, according to many estimates, the Army owns or controls over 40% of the Egyptian economy.
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Fundamental points and concerns remain, did he disband the parliament ? Did he alter the constitution ? What were his intentions ? Was it for strengthening democracy in Egypt ? Was he giving preferential treatment to some ?

If it was a case of mere non performance I would agree with you, coup is not teh answer.
 
wasim-fan said:
Fundamental points and concerns remain, did he disband the parliament ? Did he alter the constitution ? What were his intentions ? Was it for strengthening democracy in Egypt ? Was he giving preferential treatment to some ?

If it was a case of mere non performance I would agree with you, coup is not teh answer.
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He did not disband the Parliament - in fact the Parliament was not allowed to sit as the majority of the elected MP's were from Morsi's party or those allied to the MB. It was the old judiaciary, appointed by Mubarak's regime (and now forming the interim govt.), along with the Army council, that was responsible for stopping Parliament sitting.

Morsi did not 'alter' the constitution. The new constitution was drawn up by a separate body, in which Morsi's opponents refused to participate, and even then the constitution needed to be passed by the Egyptian people in a referendum. Which it was.

As for preferential treatment to some, why do you think politicians get elected? Let me remind you, they get elected by their supporters (in Morsi's case by over 51% of the votes cast), based upon the policies put forward. Every politician, everywhere, enacts policies that are designed to please those that voted for him/her. Just as the Tories enact policies that favour Conservative voters and Labour, when in government, enact policies that favour the sections of the public that voted for it. Similarly, in the US, Republicans pass legislation that favours Republican leaning sections of society and Democrats make laws that lean towards Democrat supporters. It's called politics!
Or do you think that politicians after getting elected should forget those who voted for them and make laws that favour those that voted for the opposition?
 
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I don't like speaking on the domestic affairs of a country I have not lived in but as a general comment I find it funny that in a Democracy it's now perfectly okay to shutdown tv stations and arrest 300 people all without court orders
 
clearly there are genuine grievances of the common man and those looking for change, but it will be quietly hijacked by the military once again.

first they were the villain in the piece by supporting Mubarak's regime, now they are recast as heroes and liberators.
 
AZ said:
clearly there are genuine grievances of the common man and those looking for change, but it will be quietly hijacked by the military once again.

first they were the villain in the piece by supporting Mubarak's regime, now they are recast as heroes and liberators.
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It's only a matter of time, say a few months at the most, before they will again be seen as being the villains. That is as soon those who were protesting against Morsi come to realise that it was the Army and the old Mubarak allies who ensured that economically the Morsi regime will fail, and that they were the ones who were really organising and directing the protests. All of this in order to ensure that they could keep their privelages they had under Mubarak but without being associated with the discredited face of Mubarak.
 
Arabs frankly are not interested in democracy...

The fact that they are celebrating a military coup...a military coup by the same military that supported Mubarak tells you all you need to know...

The press is hilarious with their talks of a transition to democracy...the army has already killed protesters...talks of women being abused...MB TV shut down...and MB members being detained...and the masses support this...they deserved Mubarak frankly...

Give Arabs their basic needs and you have their support...this democracy and freedom of expression malarky is of no interest to them secular or Islamist...

Morsi was a disaster...and wasnt interested in democracy either...but the solution that the people are supporting doesn't represent that either...if the army get the peoples basics sorted then the people will be satisfied for a while...
 
AZ said:
clearly there are genuine grievances of the common man and those looking for change, but it will be quietly hijacked by the military once again.

first they were the villain in the piece by supporting Mubarak's regime, now they are recast as heroes and liberators.
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And the common man is supporting the military...stupid people frankly with short memories...the army will sort out a few of their sustenance issues and all talk of freedom and democracy will be forgotten for a while...
 
The USA is legally bound to stop all aid if it is a military coup.

But the Egyptian Foreign Minister has 'persuaded' Obama that it's not a military coup but a 'popular uprising', thus not triggering the U.S. anti-military coup laws. So that's ok then. :poodle
 
Javelin said:
He did not disband the Parliament - in fact the Parliament was not allowed to sit as the majority of the elected MP's were from Morsi's party or those allied to the MB. It was the old judiaciary, appointed by Mubarak's regime (and now forming the interim govt.), along with the Army council, that was responsible for stopping Parliament sitting.

Morsi did not 'alter' the constitution. The new constitution was drawn up by a separate body, in which Morsi's opponents refused to participate, and even then the constitution needed to be passed by the Egyptian people in a referendum. Which it was.

As for preferential treatment to some, why do you think politicians get elected? Let me remind you, they get elected by their supporters (in Morsi's case by over 51% of the votes cast), based upon the policies put forward. Every politician, everywhere, enacts policies that are designed to please those that voted for him/her. Just as the Tories enact policies that favour Conservative voters and Labour, when in government, enact policies that favour the sections of the public that voted for it. Similarly, in the US, Republicans pass legislation that favours Republican leaning sections of society and Democrats make laws that lean towards Democrat supporters. It's called politics!
Or do you think that politicians after getting elected should forget those who voted for them and make laws that favour those that voted for the opposition?
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You do know only 10% of registered voters actually voted for Morsi in round 1...and less than 50% actually voted in the first place...

Most were never interested in Morsi...despite fighting to remove Mubarak they were so unimpressed with Morsi that they didnt even tactically vote to prevent the pro Mubarak candidate from winning...Morsi's 'victory' was pretty pitiful...

Referring to people asking about water and gas as spawns of satan wasnt a great move but typical of the buffoon...
 
shaykh said:
You do know only 10% of registered voters actually voted for Morsi in round 1...and less than 50% actually voted in the first place...

Most were never interested in Morsi...despite fighting to remove Mubarak they were so unimpressed with Morsi that they didnt even tactically vote to prevent the pro Mubarak candidate from winning...Morsi's 'victory' was pretty pitiful...
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So what? If some voters decided not to vote, it does'nt diminish Morsi right to rule and enact the policies that favour his supporters. If those that did'nt want Morsi decided not to vote then that's stupid of them. If the Egyptians wanted someone elected with a majority of all the registered voters, then they should have compulsory voting as some countries do.

George Bush won with some dodgy goings on in a State where his brother was Governor, he did'nt even have a majority of total votes cast, never mind a majority of the registered voters. Obama did'nt have a majority of registered voters voting for him. No British Government over the last 65+ years have had more than 50% of votes cast (whereas Mosi did), in fact no British Govt. has had more than 40% of registered voters voting for it. Does it make those US Presidents and British Govts. ineligible to rule? Heck no it did'nt.
 
Saw a plackard which said" We don't want to end up like Pakistan".
 
Lets agree with the previous protesters that Morsi was not a good leader.
It still does not explain:
- Why so many of the previous govt members were arrested
- Why their protesters were shot at, and killed, when protesters against MB were not treated similarly
- Why police refused to protect their headquarters

These are questions I am asking as a neutral
 
Singham said:
Saw a plackard which said" We don't want to end up like Pakistan".
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Ofcourse you did in you imaginary world.

In anycase, they have outdone the pakistanis and willingly kicked the democratic process in the goolies.
 
In a democracy the Majority needs to take account of the minorities.

Can't just completely ignore them. Especially when it's 50 50 and polar views.
 
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MR__KHAN__JI said:
Majority needs to take account of the minorities.

Can't just completely ignore them.
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Minority, as in minority of votes, is different to minorities as smaller sections of society with certain characteristics being different to the mainstream. In Morsi's case it means a majority of votes cast but a minority of voters registered.
 
Javelin said:
Minority, as in minority of votes, is different to minorities as smaller sections of society with certain characteristics being different to the mainstream. In Morsi's case it means a majority of votes cast but a minority of voters registered.
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What I meant was that those that voted for Morsi wanted an "Islamic" government but there was a big minority (of those that voted) that wanted a much more "secular" society.

Morsi should have been more sensitive to that.
 
Javelin said:
So what? If some voters decided not to vote, it does'nt diminish Morsi right to rule and enact the policies that favour his supporters. If those that did'nt want Morsi decided not to vote then that's stupid of them. If the Egyptians wanted someone elected with a majority of all the registered voters, then they should have compulsory voting as some countries do.

George Bush won with some dodgy goings on in a State where his brother was Governor, he did'nt even have a majority of total votes cast, never mind a majority of the registered voters. Obama did'nt have a majority of registered voters voting for him. No British Government over the last 65+ years have had more than 50% of votes cast (whereas Mosi did), in fact no British Govt. has had more than 40% of registered voters voting for it. Does it make those US Presidents and British Govts. ineligible to rule? Heck no it did'nt.
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In the 2nd round when there were like 2 choices...hardly a valid comparison...

Less than half the registered voters took part in the process...why didnt they take part after they fought for Mubaraks removal?...

How much did Morsi get in the 1st round?...10% of the total vote...thats 90% of the country who wanted nothing to do with him...

Add to his extreme incompetence when in power then it all becomes clear...he was unpopular when he took power and became more and more unpopular following it...

He didnt please ANYONE...
 
LongHorn said:
Lets agree with the previous protesters that Morsi was not a good leader.
It still does not explain:
- Why so many of the previous govt members were arrested
- Why their protesters were shot at, and killed, when protesters against MB were not treated similarly
- Why police refused to protect their headquarters

These are questions I am asking as a neutral
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Precisely...and Egyptians are cheering this one...they are not interested in democracy...cos the army is anything but...

Let these people live by their dictatorships...they arent ready for democracy...or interested in it...
 
shaykh said:
In the 2nd round when there were like 2 choices...hardly a valid comparison...

Less than half the registered voters took part in the process...why didnt they take part after they fought for Mubaraks removal?...

How much did Morsi get in the 1st round?...10% of the total vote...thats 90% of the country who wanted nothing to do with him...

Add to his extreme incompetence when in power then it all becomes clear...he was unpopular when he took power and became more and more unpopular following it...

He didnt please ANYONE...
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Many countries with Presidential races often have multiple voting rounds whereby if no one gets over 50% the candidates with lowest number of votes start dropping out until one candidate gets over 50%. So Morsi getting less than 50% in the first round is irrelevant, as no other candidate got more than 50%. The current French President received less than 29% of votes (22% of registered voters) in the 1st round. Even in the second round which he won, which was a 2-horse race, his 51% of votes cast represented only 39% or registered voters. Does that make him ineligible to rule?

Whichever way you look at it, and even the USA and other Western governments agreed at the time, Morsi won his election fair and square. Not only that but he won under a voting system that was designed by the previous regime.

As for becoming unpopular after winning the election, if you knew much about politics you will know that nearly all govts. and Presidents become unpopular for a while after being elected due to the fact they often have to make unpopular decisions when they look at the books and see the mess left behind by the previous administration (which is why the previous administration was booted in the first place!. And that applies to every election everywhere). Should Presidents and govts get kicked out as soon as they start becoming unpopular?

What if the next President has to make some tough decisions, say regarding the economy to meet the IMF conditions, and becomes unpopular as a result? Should he also be kicked out? Or should only those who don't toe the Army line be kicked out, but the others allowed to remain until the voters vote them out at the next election?
 
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Much has been made by the opposition of 22 million people supporting them with little evidence to back it up, apart from Cairo and Tahrir Square, i have hardly seen anything in the rest of the country.

There were more people in Nasrir City than Tahrir Sq and if the country descends into anarchy than only one party is at fault for having manipulated the situation to achieve what they could not do through the ballot box.
 
Jamate Islami's rally in support of Morsi.

BOliLAgCIAE9KfQ.jpg:large


lol
 
The picture tells nothing of the reality but will console some secularists.

Nasr City and other areas of Egypt have shown support for the MB from those who didn't vote for Morsi because they don't want the military to take control.

If Egyptians don't change the way it's military operates this country will see civil war much worse than Libya and Syria, much to the delight of certain powers.
 
So now up to 40 Morsi supporters were shot and killed, wonder what the liberals have to say about this?
Some were shot while praying...
 
That's just a trailer of life under military dictatorship.

I wonder how many protesters Morsi ordered to be killed while he was president.
 
As feared, they are going closer and closer to civil war
 
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shaykh said:
Precisely...and Egyptians are cheering this one...they are not interested in democracy...cos the army is anything but...

Let these people live by their dictatorships...they arent ready for democracy...or interested in it...
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That's the nature of democracy. It takes time to develop naturally. However these times are very different to the past so democracy won't necessarily be given that time to develop organically like it did in the west.
 
As expected, the liberals are all quiet...

Apparently its ok to protest and take a President down , but why exactly should unarmed protesters be mowed down, some when offering Salat?

I am really interested in the logic that we are going to be offered
 
Bashira_taeli said:
Jamate Islami's rally in support of Morsi.

BOliLAgCIAE9KfQ.jpg:large


lol
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Jamaat-e Islami wishes that it had even half the support the muslim Brotherhood and Morsi have had. Its prolly their wet dream

Time and again the Pakistani people have roundly rejected JI and the other religious parties..
 
..and Pakistan is an internationally reviled joke and its people seen as backward

Well done you must be so proud.
 
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/MID-03-090713.html

How Egypt's 'revolution' betrayed itself

By Ramzy Baroud



"The revolution is dead. Long live the revolution," wrote Eric Walberg, a Middle East political expert and author, shortly after the Egyptian military overthrew the country's democratically elected President Mohammed Morsi on July 3. But more accurately, the revolution was killed in an agonizingly slow death, and the murders were too many to count.



Mohamed ElBaradei, a liberal elitist with a dismal track record in service of Western powers during his glamorous career as the head of the International Atomic Energy Agency, is a stark example of the moral and political crisis that has befallen Egypt






since the ouster of former President Hosni Mubarak.



ElBaradei played a most detrimental role in this sad saga, from his uneventful return to Egypt during the January 2011 revolution - being cast as the sensible, Western-educated liberator - to the ouster of the only democratically-elected president this popular Arab country has ever seen. His double-speak was a testament not only to his opportunistic nature as a politician and the head of the Dostour Party, but to the entire political philosophy of the National Salvation Front, the opposition umbrella group for which he served as a coordinator.



The soft-spoken man, who rarely objected to the unfair pressure imposed on Iraq during his services as the head of the UN nuclear watch dog, was miraculously transformed into a fierce politician with persisting demands and expectations.



His party, like the rest of Egypt's opposition, had performed poorly in every democratic election and referendum held since the ouster of Mubarak. Democracy proved him irrelevant. But after every failure he and the opposition managed to emerge even louder thanks to a huge media apparatus that operated around the clock in a collective, undying commitment in rearranging the country's political scene in their favor, regardless of what the majority of Egyptians thought.



Soon after General Abdel-Fattah el-Sissi announced a military coup on July 4, in what was clearly a well-organized conspiracy involving the army, much of the media, the opposition and disaffected Mubarak-era judges, has silenced the Muslim Brotherhood and their own media. The level of organization in which the coup conspirators operated left no doubt that the military was most insincere when two days earlier they had given the quarreling political parties 48 hours to resolve their disputes.



There was no room for compromise as far as ElBaradei's opposition was concerned, and the army knew that well. On June 30, one year since Morsi had taken office following transparent, albeit protracted elections, the opposition organized with the sinister goal of removing the president at any cost.



Some called on the army, which has proven to be extremely devious and untrustworthy, to lead the "democratic" transition. ElBaradei even invited supporters of the former regime to join his crusade to oust the Brotherhood. The idea was simple: to gather as many people in the streets as possible, claim a second revolution and call on the military to intervene to save Egypt from Morsi and his supposed disregard of the will of the people.



The military, with a repulsive show of orchestrated benevolence, came to the rescue, in the name of the people and democracy. They arrested the president, shut down Islamic TV stations, killed many and rounded up hundreds of people affiliated with the ruling party. Fireworks ensued, ElBaradei and his men gloated, for Egypt had supposedly been saved.



Except it was not.



"Mubarak-era media owners and key members of Egypt's liberal and secular opposition have teamed up to create arguably one of the most effective propaganda campaigns in recent political history, to demonize Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood," wrote Mohamad Elmasry of the American University in Cairo.



Much of the media in Egypt never truly shifted allegiances. It remained as dirty and corrupt as it was during the Mubarak regime. It was there to serve the interest of the powerful business and political elites. But, due to the changing political reality - three democratic elections and two referendums, all won by Islamic party supporters - it was impossible for them to operate using the same language. They too jumped on the revolution bandwagon using the same frame of references as if they were at the forefront of the fight for freedom, equality and democracy.



Egypt's reactionary forces, not only in the media, but also the pro-Mubarak judges, the self-serving military, etc, managed to survive the political upheaval not for being particularly clever. They simply had too much room to regroup and maneuver since the desperate opposition, ElBaradei and company, put all of their focus on discounting Morsi, undermining the Muslim Brotherhood, and undercutting the democratic process that brought them to power.



In their desperation for power, they lost sight of the revolution and its original goals, disowned democracy, but more importantly endangered the future of Egypt itself.



What took place in Egypt, starting with the orchestrated "revolution" on June 30, from the army's ultimatum, to the military coup, to the shameless reinvention of the old order - accompanied with repopulating the prisons and sending tanks to face unarmed civilians - was not only disheartening to the majority of Egyptians, but was a huge shock to many people around the world as well. Egypt, which once inspired the world, is now back to square one.



Since the onset of the so called Arab Spring, an intense debate of numerous dimensions has ensued. One of its aspects was concerned with the role of religion in a healthy democracy. Egypt, of course, was in the heart of that debate, and every time Egyptians went to the ballot box they seemed to concur with the fact that they wished to see some sort of marriage between Islam and democracy.



It was hardly an easy question, and until now there have been no convincing answers. But, as in any healthy democracy, it was the people who were to have the final say. The fact that the choice of a poor peasant from a distant Egyptian village didn't match ElBaradei's elitist sensibility is of no consequence whatsoever.



It is unfortunate, but hardly surprising, that many of the idealists who took to Tahrir Square in January 2011 and spoke of equal rights for all, couldn't bear the outcome of that equality. Some complained that decades of marginalization under Mubarak didn't qualify Egypt's poor, uneducated and illiterate to make decisions pertaining to political representation and democratic constitution.



And in a sad turn of events, these very forces were openly involved in toppling the democratically-elected president and his party, as they happily celebrated the return to oppression as a glorious day of freedom. ElBaradei may now return to center stage, lecturing Egypt's poor on what true democracy is all about - and why, in some way, the majority doesn't matter at all.


Ramzy Baroud (www.ramzybaroud.net) is an internationally-syndicated columnist and the editor of PalestineChronicle.com. His latest book is: My Father was A Freedom Fighter: Gaza's Untold Story (Pluto Press).
 
it says a lot when a kaffir can put things so eloquently than the so called muslims.

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/4807816.html

Incase u dont know who Muhammed Morsi is, here is a few tidbits u never heard.

1) The first elected arab president.

2) first civil president

3) first arab president that memorises the whole Quran of by heart.

4) first arab president thats from an islamic party.

5) first arab president that allows people to criticise him, theres over 30 channels in egypt that insults him day and night.

6) first president that shakes hand with his previous prison guard.

7...) first arab president that forbids putting up his pictures in government buildings. first arab president that lives in a rented apartment and receives a normal wage just like any other egyptian.

9) first arab president that takes his family out on holidays on his own costs.


History will judge for Morsi, whether he had mistakes or not, he is by far the best arab leader in our time, compare him to any other leader and you will know for your self
 
The silly 'useful idiots' Egyptian 'Rebels' waking up to what they have done...

http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/?id=59997

Egypt's Tamarod slams new constitutional declaration as 'dictatorial'

Tamarod says constitutional declaration grants President too many powers in ‘setback for revolution.’

Middle East Online

CAIRO - Egypt's Tamarod campaign which launched the protests that prompted the ouster of President Mohamed Morsi on Tuesday slammed the country's interim charter as "dictatorial."
 
Misgivings Over Coup Spread in Egypt

Mohamed Kenawy, a 25-year-old pharmacist from the suburb of Maadi outside of Cairo, said his mind was made up.

"To cancel everything and not care about our votes, this is a disaster," he said. "This is not a revolution. Welcome back to the past."

He described himself as a staunch opponent of Mr. Morsi who voted for him to just keep his rival out of office.

Mr. Kenawy once campaigned for Mohamed ElBaradei, a leading secular liberal figure who endorsed Mr. Morsi's ouster and has been tapped by the interim president as a vice president for foreign affairs. The military coup, Mr. Kenawy said, has tainted everyone.

"We have no public figures I can see queuing five hours to vote for," said Mr. Kenawy, whose cousin died in a demonstration in November 2012 while protesting against the military's hold on power following Mr. Mubarak's fall. "I'm sorry. I have no faith in democracy in Egypt anymore."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324694904578597840302132514.html
 
theyll find out what they ahve done even more. I think if the MB continue to stay out of the process and go underground, reorganising and reflecting on their mistakes they will emerge even stronger next time. If that does not happen then something far more extreme and dangerous may replace it. But win win for the west either way!
 
http://gulfnews.com/news/region/egy...founders-of-april-6-youth-movement-1.1211143?

Egypt: Rifts emerge between founders of April 6 Youth Movement

Cairo: The pro-military fervour and concern about demonisation of the Brotherhood is also driving a wedge between activists who played major roles in the uprising that drove Hosni Mubarak from power.
A very public argument is raging between Ahmad Maher and Esraa Abdul Fattah, the founders of the April 6 Youth Movement, an important player in the street politics of 2011.
April 6 enthusiastically supported the June 30 protests and visited with interim president Adly Mansour after Mursi’s ouster, agreeing to travel to Western countries to sell the idea that what happened in Egypt was a second revolution, not a coup.
But shortly afterwards Maher tweeted to Abbas: “If we assume it’s not a coup, and I tell people it’s not a coup, when they screw us again like they did in 2011, what would I tell people?” He was referring to the 16 months of military rule after Mubarak’s fall, which were marked by the arrest, torture, and military trials of activists.

Maher’s tweet created a rift in the April 6 movement, with Esraa leading the charge against him. She has campaigned to have Maher drummed out of the group and written columns denouncing the Muslim Brothers as terrorists and praising the military for saving Egypt. Abbas says the criticism “comes mostly from people who were against us when we were fighting for the overthrow of Mubarak in 2011, and for whom June 30 was the first time they ever came out in the streets.”
But it’s also coming from former comrades. He says many activists who opposed Mubarak call June 30 a people’s revolution and see the Army, which ruled Egypt in 2011 and 2012, as a positive force in Egyptian politics. “In their hearts, I’m sure they know this is not true. No real democracy can come from this. It has brought the army back on the scene, and it has brought back the remnants of Mubarak’s regime. Maybe they are just hopeful that it will be different this time.”

Mursi’s ouster had also caused a rift over one of the icons of the 2011 revolution, the Facebook page ‘We Are All Khaled Said’. The page, commemorating a young Egyptian beaten to death by police in 2010, focused popular rage around the abuses of the Mubarak years and served as an important precursor to the 2011 uprising.
The administrator of the Arabic version of the page, Wael Goneim, became a worldwide celebrity after the fall of Mubarak after being detained for weeks and making an impassioned appeal for Egyptian democracy on national TV after his release.
But after praising the military’s decision to oust Mursi on July 3, Goneim has gone dark, with no further Facebook statements or interviews. But his counterpart administrator on the English version of the page has turned against the coup, and has received furious comments and death threats in response.
He asked that his name be withheld because he’s worried he could be arrested for his political views. “We are now officially back to January 24, 2011, back into the Mubarak regime. Those activists who may still be unsure will very soon realise this sad reality.”
He agrees with Abbas that “this coup was not a response to protests, but it was simply pre-planned and organised by the military, some opposition leaders and supported by different government establishments, including the police. A bit more pressure and peaceful protests in the street could have delivered early elections or any other democratic solution.
One day is not enough. Military coup is not a solution. Democracy is.” Zahraa Said, Khaled Said’s sister, is furious with the English language page.
“We have written them many times to stop speaking my brother’s name but we have received no reply,” she says. “They no longer represent what is happening in the street.”
Despite Goneim’s Arabic page coming out in support of the coup, Goneim also bears Zahraa Said’s wrath for his silence since July 3. Goneim “has not been supportive enough of the June 30 revolution,” she says. “They should rename the pages, ‘We Are All Muslim Brothers’.”
 
do the pro coup guys have any justification for mass shootings of MB supporters?

And for Morsi being labelled everything from a spy to a murderer?
 
in a sad way its Amusing to see the western media trying to avoid talking about Egypt now. When Mursi was gone they were having an orgasim
 
@Channel4News 3m
William Hague condemns Egyptian security forces for recent violent clashes
Click to expand...

Finally some condemnation, it only took about two months.
 
pakistanigoneaussie said:
in a sad way its Amusing to see the western media trying to avoid talking about Egypt now. When Mursi was gone they were having an orgasim
Click to expand...


Actually BBC and Guardian are both reporting on it, and they are being accused by secular Egyptians of "supporting terrorists".
Forget the western media, why are Saudis so pro-Sisi and so antiMB ?
You should have seen how they cheered when Morsi fell
Do you know govt back charities are raising money to send to "Egypt". I wont given them one cent knowing its likely to go to the Egyptian army
 
LongHorn said:
Forget the western media, why are Saudis so pro-Sisi and so antiMB ?
Click to expand...

Egyptian army is in the pocket of the US and pose little threat to Israel, plus the MB's support for Hamas I don't think went down well with the Saudis.
 
Bashira_taeli said:
Could be because Iran is the biggest backer of Hamas. Iran has been giving them massive amount of financial support over the years however its said that at present their ties are at the lowest point.
Click to expand...

Yep the irony is that Hamas support the Syrian rebels !
 
Markhor said:
Yep the irony is that Hamas support the Syrian rebels !
Click to expand...

An interesting question is what will happen to Hamas, now thats Iran is not backing it anymore.

IRI was giving them as much as $15 million every month, but ever since they sided with the Syrian rebels this funding has all but stopped. Unfortunately for Hamas, I think no other country even the fellow sunni allies of Syriam War (KSA, Qatar) will ever come to their rescue since they would not want to displease the US.

I personally think this might be the end of the road for Hamas as far as their armed struggle against Israel is concerned.
 
Bashira_taeli said:
An interesting question is what will happen to Hamas, now thats Iran is not backing it anymore.

IRI was giving them as much as $15 million every month, but ever since they sided with the Syrian rebels this funding has all but stopped. Unfortunately for Hamas, I think no other country even the fellow sunni allies of Syriam War (KSA, Qatar) will ever come to their rescue since they would not want to displease the US.

I personally think this might be the end of the road for Hamas as far as their armed struggle against Israel is concerned.
Click to expand...

yess because the 400 million given to them by Qatar wont be used for war, am i right?

Individual Arab princes will continue to support Hamas
 
Bashira_taeli said:
An interesting question is what will happen to Hamas, now thats Iran is not backing it anymore.

IRI was giving them as much as $15 million every month, but ever since they sided with the Syrian rebels this funding has all but stopped. Unfortunately for Hamas, I think no other country even the fellow sunni allies of Syriam War (KSA, Qatar) will ever come to their rescue since they would not want to displease the US.

I personally think this might be the end of the road for Hamas as far as their armed struggle against Israel is concerned.
Click to expand...

Knockout blow by Israel. ..

Hizbollah and Hamas defeated.
 
What a tinderbox these countries (read: banana republics) are.

Why are Pakistanis so much into their affairs though? Egypt, Syria, Burma, Morocco? Because they're Muslim nations as well, is that all?
 
Why do you care ? Why not sort out your own problems in Kashmir, Naxalites etc ?

In 2006 Indian Prime Minister Singh declared Naxalism the single biggest internal security challenge ever faced by India. Estimated to be 40,000 strong, the Naxalites have been waging a Maoist-inspired insurgency against the Indian government since the late 1960s. The group has been a strain on the country's security forces and a barrier to development in the vast mineral rich region in eastern India known as the "Red Corridor." Today, the Naxalites heavily influence a third of the country, and India is no closer to eradicating the insurgency than it was 50 years ago.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/daniel-wagner/indias-naxalites-remain-a_b_3655315.html
 
Last edited:
s28 said:
Why do you care ? Why not sort out your own problems in Kashmir, Naxalites etc ?
Click to expand...

Because I don't care about them either.

That's the point - even if I do care about hilly Kashmir it's a valid concern since at the end of the day, an Indian. Not true for Pakistanis weeping over a goon snatching a lady's chain in downtown Casablanca - so what's the motivation? Religion, innit?
 
Looks like the Egyptian army and judiciary are following in Nasser's footsteps and are looking to pursue and decapitate the Brotherhood's leadership.

And even their former regional allies like the Saudis and Emirates are giving up on them so one assumes the Egyptian Army may well succeed.
 
Varun said:
What a tinderbox these countries (read: banana republics) are.

Why are Pakistanis so much into their affairs though? Egypt, Syria, Burma, Morocco? Because they're Muslim nations as well, is that all?
Click to expand...

They are pretty much world news everywhere right now, especially this topic in particular.
 
The ultimate final solution for secularists when faced with a successful muslim organisation..shoot em in the head..egypt on its way to fascism..
 
the Great Khan said:
The ultimate final solution for secularists when faced with a successful muslim organisation..shoot em in the head..egypt on its way to fascism..
Click to expand...

There are egyptian secularists on the web posting absurd comments in The Guardian, and other forums; mainly "they were just terorists", or "they attacked the police so were killed".


Sometimes, I think that having media is useless. You can see a video of MB supporters being shot in the head, and someone will have the gall to comment: "it is a doctored video, in realy the Mb were the ones killing"

The situation in how the authorities are attacking anyone Islamic is very similar to what happened in bangladesh in February and March
 
the Great Khan said:
The ultimate final solution for secularists when faced with a successful muslim organisation..shoot em in the head..egypt on its way to fascism..
Click to expand...

BUt what kind of secularists are these shouting Allah au Akbar during the protests.
 
Eagle_Eye said:
You are confusing atheism with secularism.
Click to expand...

Which is why so many Muslims consider secularism as shirk and call secular people kafir
What we see in Egypt is not actual secularism; it is a combination of secularism and a deep hatred of Islamic symbols. The MB are not perfect Muslims, but when shops are attacked and men killed because of their beards, it ceases to be secularism and become militant Islam-hating fascism
 
Egypt is in utter chaos.

Egypt declares national emergency

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23700663

Egypt's presidency has declared a state of emergency after scores of people were killed when security forces stormed protest camps in Cairo.

The camps had been occupied by supporters of former president Mohammed Morsi, who was deposed in early July.

Security forces say 95 people have been killed, but the Muslim Brotherhood says hundreds have died.

The state of emergency will begin at 16:00 local time (1400 GMT), and last for a month.
Click to expand...
 
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