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England vs India | 4th Test | Manchester | July 23-27 | Pre-Match Discussion

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jnaveen1980 said:
Gill 607 runs
Pant 425 runs
Jamie smith 415 runs
KL Rahul 375 runs
Jadeja 327 runs

4 out of top 5 run getters are Indians. SOmehow Indian batsmen have to learn batting technique from pakistan batting wizards. :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
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To be fair Pant's audacious stroke play can come across as someone who has a poor technique, if you watch his game closely his biggest weakness is his brain fade which as he ages will get him in trouble due to his reflexes getting slower.

Pant does have a solid technique, he needs to control his mind though, which is not an easy thing to do...
 
Romali_rotti said:
To be fair Pant's audacious stroke play can come across as someone who has a poor technique, if you watch his game closely his biggest weakness is his brain fade which as he ages will get him in trouble due to his reflexes getting slower.

Pant does have a solid technique, he needs to control his mind though, which is not an easy thing to do...
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He probably has the best defensive technique i have seen from this current Indian line up. His shock value shots can be fine tuned. But i don't want them gone. He still has to stop challenging deep fielders. Once the field is deep take singles bring them in then go after again.
 
RamLakhan said:
I think India will not drop Karun Nair and he may play this entire series, because No.3 is a crucial position... If he fails in everything, they may drop him eventually & completely (his chapter will be closed in international cricket). Looking at the way they persisted till 3rd test, I think they will extend it to next tests as well... (OR maybe they will drop him now, because they retained him probably because India won the 2nd match, and they didn't want to change the winning combination much)

Sai Sudarshan may also be under pressure if he is brought in now... He should now justify the replacement immediately. So lets give Sai Sudarshan the next series (maybe against WI at home). They should have decided between Sai & Nair before the 2nd test... Now that they have persisted with Nair, they should complete the cycle. Otherwise it is going to affect both of them.

Karun Nair stays in the team (for future) only if he scores at least 1 century in the remaining 4 innings. That is the minimum requirement he has to meet for getting these many opportunities... We should not be satisfied even if he scores an insignificant/supportive 60 or 70 finally at some point. We should drop him from next series (from the squad).

On the other hand, I want Jadeja to be promoted to No.5 and let Pant take it easy at No.6... (AND if Pant is injured - not sure about his finger injury, and if Jurel replaces him, then definitely Jadeja should come up at No.5) Jadeja (if people have observed) is the most consistent Indian Batsman in tests better than even our top order batsmen! He is proving his worth in almost all conditions (new ball, old ball, seam, swing, pace, bounce, etc, batted well on turners also in the past, now he has excelled in overseas playing better than at home! And its a big sample now - like 3 years)

Jadeja needs some time and he is a kind of accumulator and puts out only the bad balls away, his defence is tight. So if he plays bit higher who knows he may start to contribute even more... Maybe start scoring centuries and become a full-fledged batsman! Since he is not a natural attacker like Pant, he may serve well at No.5. Pant can handle No.6 more effectively (like he did in Gabba and many other heroics), he can attack better and also bat well with the tail. Let Jadeja be a pivot at No.5, helping other batsmen by holding one end and also he is good in running between the wickets, he can rotate strike and accumulate runs through 1s, 2s when the going gets tough... I think its time India swap No.5 & No.6 in this series itself and its going to help...

Finally India may not make much changes may be they will bring in Arshdeep/Prasidh in place of Bumrah (as its already fixed that Bumrah will not play), rest of the team would be same. They would have thought of dropping 1 out of Nitish/Sundar, but since both of them did well in this match, they may retain both...

The more important thing to do now is, Coach should talk to our top order batsmen (everyone) and ask them to be more disciplined and not throw away their wickets... Look to play session by session and look at the match context (especially chasing milestones).

Bowling is alright, in fact it is better than England... (with or without Bumrah)
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Sai is 23. Without giving him proper rope can't judge him
 
KL Rahul is making England a happy hunting ground. His average in England has gone up by 7 points since the start of the series
1752579545393.png
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Sai is 23. Without giving him proper rope can't judge him
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Not telling he should not be given chance... Let him ease out in next series (home series)... Now he has to straight away prove his worth once he replaces Nair, its direct pressure... He may perish before blossoming... OR he may take a lot of time to find his feet in test cricket. Cricket is not just technique it is also about developing temperament... We have seen this with Rahane, Rahul and many players... Rahul still has temperament issues (in spite of great technique), he is still not certain about his place in the side for this reason! I think he still can't forget how Dhawan/Rohit blocked his place when he wanted to open for India few years back!

If Nair is not good enough (it looks that way) he will definitely be replaced by Sai (but lets adapt a method for this and not rush...) That's why I have challenged Nair to score a century in the remaining 4 innings... If I were a coach I would just tell him - you will play both the matches in this series and would wish him to do well (but I will keep in mind - only a century will retain him in the side, and will tell that at the end of the series)
 
RamLakhan said:
Not telling he should not be given chance... Let him ease out in next series (home series)... Now he has to straight away prove his worth once he replaces Nair, its direct pressure... He may perish before blossoming... OR he may take a lot of time to find his feet in test cricket. Cricket is not just technique it is also about developing temperament... We have seen this with Rahane, Rahul and many players... Rahul still has temperament issues (in spite of great technique), he is still not certain about his place in the side for this reason! I think he still can't forget how Dhawan/Rohit blocked his place when he wanted to open for India few years back!

If Nair is not good enough (it looks that way) he will definitely be replaced by Sai (but lets adapt a method for this and not rush...) That's why I have challenged Nair to score a century in the remaining 4 innings... If I were a coach I would just tell him - you will play both the matches in this series and would wish him to do well (but I will keep in mind - only a century will retain him in the side, and will tell that at the end of the series)
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Nair is playing in one of the most crucial overseas spot. No.3 They typicall set the tone for the others. Their job is to see off atleast 25 to 30 overs. He failed every time except once when he made a 40. But he couldn't convert. If this continues it will impact the rest of the batsman. Fresher bowlers will have a go at middle order for long period with newer ball. He has to blunt the attack.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
He probably has the best defensive technique i have seen from this current Indian line up. His shock value shots can be fine tuned. But i don't want them gone. He still has to stop challenging deep fielders. Once the field is deep take singles bring them in then go after again.
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I will swap Jadeja's & Pant's position... Pant is better batting at No.6. Jadeja can do that well (as you said) taking singles when fielders are deep and then going aerial if they are brought up... Jadeja would do this well when he bats up & if he has a proper batting partner instead of tailenders & the pressure of getting allout!

Pant would have murdered England if he was in Jadeja's place (when they brought up fielders inside for the remaining 2 balls of the over batting with tail, easily he would have hit 2 sixes with that soft ball, he has both the instinct & power/skill required for that! Whereas Jadeja is more like a top order batsman now, in the past he was just an ordinary batsman who was bit superior to tailenders, but he has progressed well)
 
RamLakhan said:
I will swap Jadeja's & Pant's position... Pant is better batting at No.6. Jadeja can do that well (as you said) taking singles when fielders are deep and then going aerial if they are brought up... Jadeja would do this well when he bats up & if he has a proper batting partner instead of tailenders & the pressure of getting allout!

Pant would have murdered England if he was in Jadeja's place (when they brought up fielders inside for the remaining 2 balls of the over batting with tail, easily he would have hit 2 sixes with that soft ball, he has both the instinct & power/skill required for that! Whereas Jadeja is more like a top order batsman now, in the past he was just an ordinary batsman who was bit superior to tailenders, but he has progressed well)
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They want Pant to bat for long periods. Also even if he gets out trying one of those funky shots India will have someone like Jadeja to bail them out. So i don't think they will change it. The role of attacking was Nitish Reddy role as he is a capable six hitter. But he is not fully committed to this role yet. He has to start disturbing line and length of bowlers from time to time.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Nair is playing in one of the most crucial overseas spot. No.3 They typicall set the tone for the others. Their job is to see off atleast 25 to 30 overs. He failed every time except once when he made a 40. But he couldn't convert. If this continues it will impact the rest of the batsman. Fresher bowlers will have a go at middle order for long period with newer ball. He has to blunt the attack.
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If you see carefully he did that job to reasonable level (blunting new ball). In fact in the 1st innings, his 40 was okayish (not magical I agree) and it helped to give a platform to Rahul & Pant (we should understand we lost both the tests due to stupid batting by our top order batsmen in the "first" innings of both these matches, this you should carefully observe!) His 31 & 26 were also not too bad (but nothing to feel great about either) in the 2nd test... He did that job to some extent (handling new ball). What if Sai replaces him and does worse (under pressure) - getting out soon like 0(2), 3(8), etc.

If Nair had got out for cheap scores, single digit scores, ducks... Then yes I would have dropped him without hesitation... Now we should be careful... But yes, I will retain him only if he scores a 100 in these 4 innings... Thats the secret yardstick I will keep in mind...
 
RamLakhan said:
If you see carefully he did that job to reasonable level (blunting new ball). In fact in the 1st innings, his 40 was okayish (not magical I agree) and it helped to give a platform to Rahul & Pant (we should understand we lost both the tests due to stupid batting by our top order batsmen in the "first" innings of both these matches, this you should carefully observe!) His 31 & 26 were also not too bad (but nothing to feel great about either) in the 2nd test... He did that job to some extent (handling new ball). What if Sai replaces him and does worse (under pressure) - getting out soon like 0(2), 3(8), etc.

If Nair had got out for cheap scores, single digit scores, ducks... Then yes I would have dropped him without hesitation... Now we should be careful... But yes, I will retain him only if he scores a 100 in these 4 innings... Thats the secret yardstick I will keep in mind...
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It may be a forced selection after all. Pant doesn't look good as a keeper with injury. They will play him as a batsman and get Jurel in as keeper.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
They want Pant to bat for long periods. Also even if he gets out trying one of those funky shots India will have someone like Jadeja to bail them out. So i don't think they will change it. The role of attacking was Nitish Reddy role as he is a capable six hitter. But he is not fully committed to this role yet. He has to start disturbing line and length of bowlers from time to time.
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At the moment it looks like Jadeja wants to bat longer... Pant if he bats longer I know he can create more damage... Yes I know he got two centuries this series, but he has also got out at crucial times... And No.6 is not that lower number to bat, he has enough time to attack... Also if Jadeja bats at No.5, India can think of including a proper batsman (in place of Reddy) & proper bowler - spinner or pacer (instead of Sundar) It will give a different balance...
 
RamLakhan said:
At the moment it looks like Jadeja wants to bat longer... Pant if he bats longer I know he can create more damage... Yes I know he got two centuries this series, but he has also got out at crucial times... And No.6 is not that lower number to bat, he has enough time to attack... Also if Jadeja bats at No.5, India can think of including a proper batsman (in place of Reddy) & proper bowler - spinner or pacer (instead of Sundar) It will give a different balance...
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Sundar is a proper spinner at this point. Last 1 year he has been our best spinner

Sundar 7 matches 24 wickets 20.25 avge
Ashwin 6 matches 21 wickets 30.28 avge
Jadeja 11 matches 32 wickets 32.28 avge
Kuldeep 1 match 3 wickets 41.66 avge.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
It may be a forced selection after all. Pant doesn't look good as a keeper with injury. They will play him as a batsman and get Jurel in as keeper.
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Not forced... We want someone who can handle the new ball in these conditions (or in any conditions for that matter, even in India/Sub-continent you need a batsman who can handle new ball - swing/seam at No.3) Sai Sudarshan is the man for that, but they should have given the full series for him... They should have dropped Nair instead of him after 1st test. But strangely they retained Nair (who batted at No.6) and dropped Sai (who batted at No.3). Once they did this, they may have to stick with it for now... They somehow saw Nair (the more experienced) to handle the role for the moment...
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Sundar is a proper spinner at this point. Last 1 year he has been our best spinner

Sundar 7 matches 24 wickets 20.25 avge
Ashwin 6 matches 21 wickets 30.28 avge
Jadeja 11 matches 32 wickets 32.28 avge
Kuldeep 1 match 3 wickets 41.66 avge.
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Yeah, probably that's why they are not playing Kuldeep, in that case a pacer can come in place of Sundar... Problem is we are struggling to find backup players for all these roles, otherwise our team combination would be totally different. Just like we are struggling to find a proper no.3 after Dravid, Pujara... these are key positions... Thankfully we have sorted out the opening positions (Jaiswal/Rahul - even though they too have some minor/major issues). Just when we thought we found a 3rd decent pacer (Akashdeep) after Bumrah & Siraj, he went a bit down in next test)
 
RamLakhan said:
Yeah, probably that's why they are not playing Kuldeep, in that case a pacer can come in place of Sundar... Problem is we are struggling to find backup players for all these roles, otherwise our team combination would be totally different. Just like we are struggling to find a proper no.3 after Dravid, Pujara... these are key positions... Thankfully we have sorted out the opening positions (Jaiswal/Rahul - even though they too have some minor/major issues). Just when we thought we found a 3rd decent pacer (Akashdeep) after Bumrah & Siraj, he went a bit down in next test)
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Sundar averages 28
Jadeja averages 110

SO i am not sure they will drop Sundar. He is by far the best spinner from both sides. He wreaked bavoc on a pitch that didn't even offer him turn.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Sundar averages 28
Jadeja averages 110

SO i am not sure they will drop Sundar. He is by far the best spinner from both sides. He wreaked bavoc on a pitch that didn't even offer him turn.
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It will be fine if Sundar becomes consistent (he should bowl well even on flat pitches - at least stop run flow if can't take wicket! Thats why people were thinking about Kuldeep after 2nd test & even this test 1st innings, because Kuldeep being a wrist spinner can have better chance to at least picket wickets! But I know Kuldeep may become more ineffective than Sundar and even we will lose the batting depth)

It will be good if Jadeja becomes our batting-alrounder, Sundar bowling-alrounder, both giving spin options.
 
RamLakhan said:
At the moment it looks like Jadeja wants to bat longer... Pant if he bats longer I know he can create more damage... Yes I know he got two centuries this series, but he has also got out at crucial times... And No.6 is not that lower number to bat, he has enough time to attack... Also if Jadeja bats at No.5, India can think of including a proper batsman (in place of Reddy) & proper bowler - spinner or pacer (instead of Sundar) It will give a different balance...
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I agree.

Jadeja and Pant can interchange. Nothing to do with Pant’s demotion here, just that he can impact a game in quick time while Jadeja batting at 5 can continue to bat long and play at his rate. India will be able to maximise his contribution with bat this way.
 
Ab Fan said:
I agree.

Jadeja and Pant can interchange. Nothing to do with Pant’s demotion here, just that he can impact a game in quick time while Jadeja batting at 5 can continue to bat long and play at his rate. India will be able to maximise his contribution with bat this way.
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I am thinking like this after analyzing the stats... He has been the most consistent among all batters (including top-order) and that in all kind of conditions, all kind of pitches, new ball (2nd new ball), older ball, coming at different stage of day (morning, late evening), different team position (when India is strong say - 375/5 or even 120/5), he has been playing with the same consistency and same authority... As he is doing like this, he needs a promotion in the batting order...

He is not able to score many runs coming at No.6, No.7 (when Pant was batting at No.6 - he was coming at No.7 - that was when Rahane, Rohit & co were in the team) Now we are getting more contribution from him at No.6, probably he may get even more effective at No.5 (he may start scoring centuries!)

With Jadeja and Pant at No.5 & No.6 (and chances of them both scoring centuries), then it will make this team even more dangerous and it opens up multiple combinations... A Test team will get strong if they have Top-6 who can all score centuries and usually they will have an aggressive one at No.6, and an accumulator at No.5.

But yes we have to sort out No.3 first (there is a hole there) which is a different issue, you know we need a proper centurion there too! And we need to develop soon (like we developed Jaiswal) No matter whatever maybe the issues with Rahul, Jaiswal, Gill, Pant - they have sealed their spots for the moment and we have no replacements for them (Coach needs to sort out their issues whenever required).

Jadeja at No.3 is asking too much... He has one notable weakness (short-ball/rising-ball and moving-ball when pitch is too fresh! So he will struggle in 1st & 2nd innings of test match if he bats at No.3) Same thing applies to Reddy (as someone suggested to ask him to bat at No.3. It will become like Abdul Razzak expirement that Pakistan did in good old days!) Top 3 batting positions are specialist positions, they should be playing there right from their first class + under-age levels to succeed...

Jadeja's promotion to No.6 or No.5 is also not an overnight one! He earns that after years of hard work & progress... (And he has experience in first class batting in the middle order where he was more of a batter than bowler, but unfortunately he couldn't adjust to international cricket quickly! But glad he is turning it out now... He has played long innings in first class and that should help!)
 
Jadeja scored his triple centuries when he batted at 4 but i'm not convinced pushing him up the order is a good move.
 

Herschelle Gibbs questions Bumrah’s ‘intent’ during Lord’s chase and then trains guns on top order in Twitter exchange​


Herschelle Gibbs harbours some pretty controversial and critical takes, but holds them dear consistently. So, be it Temba Bavuma in the WTC or Jasprit Bumrah’s fourth innings batting in the India-England Test at Lord’s, the South African can train his tweeting-gun on any batsman who is not perennially taking the attack to the bowlers, and not being a batsman, showing ‘intent’.

On Monday, he came down hard on India’s top order but also surprisingly on Bumrah as they fell short by 22 runs. While his criticism of Bavuma borders on a long alleged prejudice against any pragmatic approach (and not slam bang hitting) by any Proteas opener, Gibbs also got *****ly about India’s No 10 Bumrah, not swinging at deliveries early in his 53 ball stay, to reach the target against England.

“Came close in the end but lack of intent cost India the game,” Gibbs first posted provocatively on Twitter. Though he conceded it had been a “great test for sure”, Gibbs questioned why he did not play more positively, basing his expectation on a past record. “Bumrah has the most runs in an over for a batsman in test cricket.. .. where was that intent today ? He showed intent that day what was different today? Let’s hear your thinking?” he responded to a reply that stated that circumstances (chasing a target not setting one, state of the pitch) were different.

On the field, Bumrah actually was dismissed trying to go for a risky pull, and a case can be made that had he stayed on a little longer, Jadeja could have dragged India to a win. Gibbs though was in no mood to appreciate the actual fight put up by Nos 10 & 11.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1944810490376675806

https://twitter.com/x/status/1944806924601397563

Source: https://indianexpress.com/article/s...umrah-intent-lords-chase-ind-vs-eng-10127745/
 
Ball Blazer said:

Herschelle Gibbs questions Bumrah’s ‘intent’ during Lord’s chase and then trains guns on top order in Twitter exchange​


Herschelle Gibbs harbours some pretty controversial and critical takes, but holds them dear consistently. So, be it Temba Bavuma in the WTC or Jasprit Bumrah’s fourth innings batting in the India-England Test at Lord’s, the South African can train his tweeting-gun on any batsman who is not perennially taking the attack to the bowlers, and not being a batsman, showing ‘intent’.

On Monday, he came down hard on India’s top order but also surprisingly on Bumrah as they fell short by 22 runs. While his criticism of Bavuma borders on a long alleged prejudice against any pragmatic approach (and not slam bang hitting) by any Proteas opener, Gibbs also got *****ly about India’s No 10 Bumrah, not swinging at deliveries early in his 53 ball stay, to reach the target against England.

“Came close in the end but lack of intent cost India the game,” Gibbs first posted provocatively on Twitter. Though he conceded it had been a “great test for sure”, Gibbs questioned why he did not play more positively, basing his expectation on a past record. “Bumrah has the most runs in an over for a batsman in test cricket.. .. where was that intent today ? He showed intent that day what was different today? Let’s hear your thinking?” he responded to a reply that stated that circumstances (chasing a target not setting one, state of the pitch) were different.

On the field, Bumrah actually was dismissed trying to go for a risky pull, and a case can be made that had he stayed on a little longer, Jadeja could have dragged India to a win. Gibbs though was in no mood to appreciate the actual fight put up by Nos 10 & 11.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1944810490376675806

https://twitter.com/x/status/1944806924601397563

Source: https://indianexpress.com/article/s...umrah-intent-lords-chase-ind-vs-eng-10127745/
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Bumrah had given up.

Sure he is not a batsman but he is a senior player and stand-in captain, he should have performed better with the bat and then he ultimately threw it away.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
Bumrah had given up.

Sure he is not a batsman but he is a senior player and stand-in captain, he should have performed better with the bat and then he ultimately threw it away.
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Jadeja needed to show intent, not Bumrah. Jasprit tried to show intent and he hit in straight in the air.
 
RexRex said:
Jadeja needed to show intent, not Bumrah. Jasprit tried to show intent and he hit in straight in the air.
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That wasn't intent that was suicide.

I don't completely agree with Gibbs assertion around intent, I just think a player like Bumrah shouldn't have had that rush of blood and fell into the obvious trap.
 
Cant believe England actually picked Liam Dawson, I thought they were adamant on ignoring him. He has been the best spinner in county cricket for the past few years, should've been a mainstay in the side since the last home ashes.
Surprised Leach didn't get a call up, but then again, England have always preferred bowlers who could bat

Dawson is a proper all rounder and more than handy with the bat. His selection could signal the sacking of Woakes, he will probably be the one who makes way for Atkinson.

Bashir bowling pies and leaking runs was the reason India were so ahead of England in this series. A proper spinner replacing him makes a world of difference. Don't see India coming back now that England will be at full strength.

Gill and even Siraj's sledging fired up England, they will play with more intensity from now on.
 
This will be England’s strongest XI of the series so far. Atkinson & Dawson both likely to join Archer and Carse, which makes for not just a quality bowling lineup but bats all the way down as well. Unfortunately, because it’s Manchester there is some rain in the forecast.
 
India's two of the brighest stars who have done well against England in the last series and this series went AWOL at Lords. Still India came with in an inch of win. Some unforced error like run out cost them. These two players have to step up once again. Gill first innings got out to an innocuous delivery just because keeper stood up. Second innigns 4th day end of the day nerves. Jaiswal irresponsible in the 2nd innings. These two have to bring their ENglish killing form back again.
 
India needs 2 changes probably... Nair out and also I think reddy needs to go...
 
Lol clown Indian fans are still delusional after getting humiliated so badly in last 11 matches.
I don't know where does that arrogance come from.
I would like to see archer breaking some bones in next test
 
Romali_rotti said:
I am sure Smith will score a 200 on a seaming bouncy track 🤡
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He has already averaged 103 more then FTB gill in this series. India has turned him into Bradman.

It is a fact that he is the highest avg batter in this series despite playing in an extremely difficult position of no 7 while coward pant plays at no 6 ducking away from the tail and the 2nd new ball.

Against Aus whether he scores or not, I do not know as he has to face the real 2 greatest bowlers of this generation Boland and Starc hence it'll be tricky but I can see him scoring a century.

He, Brooks and Root are the key players for England.

Root = Man who will eventually surpass Sachin although I rank him 19th greatest on my list with sachin ranked 5th, but dw, Root will take the 5th spot soon enough.

Jamie smith= Will retire as the 2nd greatest test keeper of all time after Gilly with QDK bring no 2 in odi after Gilly.

Brooks = Man will retire as the next era Test KP.
 
mominsaigol said:
He has already averaged 103 more then FTB gill in this series. India has turned him into Bradman.

It is a fact that he is the highest avg batter in this series despite playing in an extremely difficult position of no 7 while coward pant plays at no 6 ducking away from the tail and the 2nd new ball.

Against Aus whether he scores or not, I do not know as he has to face the real 2 greatest bowlers of this generation Boland and Starc hence it'll be tricky but I can see him scoring a century.

He, Brooks and Root are the key players for England.

Root = Man who will eventually surpass Sachin although I rank him 19th greatest on my list with sachin ranked 5th, but dw, Root will take the 5th spot soon enough.

Jamie smith= Will retire as the 2nd greatest test keeper of all time after Gilly with QDK bring no 2 in odi after Gilly.

Brooks = Man will retire as the next era Test KP.
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No

Smith will retire as the 3rd greatest wickie bat after Mushy & AG

🤡
 
BouncerGuy said:
India needs 2 changes probably... Nair out and also I think reddy needs to go...
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Im not sure if India need Reddy, who has put in a shift with the ball however is averaging 11 with bat. Bumrah, Siraj, Deep, Jadeja and Washington seems like enough to bowl England out. Washington will enjoy the turn and bounce at Old Trafford. They could try another specialist bat instead of Reddy.
 
Romali_rotti said:
No

Smith will retire as the 3rd greatest wickie bat after Mushy & AG

🤡
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Typical Indians. Troll when they have run out of arguments and steam.

It is a fact that he averages 103 in these 3 tests, It is a fact India turned him into an enigma.

As much as I hate india I have to give them credit for turning avg to good cricketers into legends.

Root would still be a 45 avg batter with 26-27 centuries if not for India elevating him to the status of a future goat .

Smith would have retired after BGT as he was hinting due to his 33 avg over 1.5 years before India helped him slap 2 centuries against them.

Saeed Anwar would have seen as just another average Pakistani batter amoung many before India helped him by turning him into the greatest opener in Pakistani history and top 5 Asian openers.

Smith would have been seen as just another come and go keeper before India converted him into a Gilly successor thanks to their ability to turn people into Bradman.

Jadeja and Ashwin would have been seen as Goats before India helped Satner expose them in the 3-0 home series.

India has created more careers then any other team in history :vk2
 
mominsaigol said:
Typical Indians. Troll when they have run out of arguments and steam.

It is a fact that he averages 103 in these 3 tests, It is a fact India turned him into an enigma.

As much as I hate india I have to give them credit for turning avg to good cricketers into legends.

Root would still be a 45 avg batter with 26-27 centuries if not for India elevating him to the status of a future goat .

Smith would have retired after BGT as he was hinting due to his 33 avg over 1.5 years before India helped him slap 2 centuries against them.

Saeed Anwar would have seen as just another average Pakistani batter amoung many before India helped him by turning him into the greatest opener in Pakistani history and top 5 Asian openers.

Smith would have been seen as just another come and go keeper before India converted him into a Gilly successor thanks to their ability to turn people into Bradman.

Jadeja and Ashwin would have been seen as Goats before India helped Satner expose them in the 3-0 home series.

India has created more careers then any other team in history :vk2
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So in otherwords Smith will finish his career a tier below Mushy :sanga
 
Romali_rotti said:
So in otherwords Smith will finish his career a tier below Mushy :sanga
Click to expand...
Worry about Pant surpassing gilly. He never will and will finish his career like 38 avg Dhoni but with the exception of scoring overseas test centuries.

Let me worry about real cricketers who will actually dominate eras.

Myth 1: Pant is the best keeper in the world. Incorrect both Carey and Smith are > him.

Myth 2: Root is a softie. Somewhat true bit nowhere near as soft as Sachin.

Myth 3: Bumrah is the greatest bowler of this era. Incorrect, it is starc and Boland.

Myth 4: Jaiswal will lead the new era. Again Incorrect, it'll be Harry Brook.
 
BouncerGuy said:
You mean AJ STYLES???

Because I see no real improvement when Bumrah made a comeback in the 3rd test.
Click to expand...
We lost last match because of batsman performances in 2nd innings not because bowling.

193 was chase able Target. Anyways we just lost the small margin and England captured crucial moments otherwise india dominates most of the test . This is young team which will Learn in next game like how they won 2nd test.

They are playing a overseas series where most of the team performed more pathetic.

:kp
 
This Indian team is performing better than people's expectations including me. Anyways I'm Fully backing them to strong comeback in next game. :kp
 
mominsaigol said:
Worry about Pant surpassing gilly. He never will and will finish his career like 38 avg Dhoni but with the exception of scoring overseas test centuries.

Let me worry about real cricketers who will actually dominate eras.

Myth 1: Pant is the best keeper in the world. Incorrect both Carey and Smith are > him.

Myth 2: Root is a softie. Somewhat true bit nowhere near as soft as Sachin.

Myth 3: Bumrah is the greatest bowler of this era. Incorrect, it is starc and Boland.

Myth 4: Jaiswal will lead the new era. Again Incorrect, it'll be Harry Brook.
Click to expand...

Kid, you need meds, you showing all signs of major ocd, you are more obsessed with Indian players than the Indian posters on this forum...

I don't care if you think Carey and Smith( yet to score a run in Oz or SA) is better than Pant,

I don't care if you think Bumrah is not better than Starc and Bolland.

I don't care about what you think of Jaiswal or Harry Brook.

All these Indian player comparisons are getting into your mind too much and wrecking your peace.

Might as well tell someone who cares about your comparisons, to me you are nothing but a troll time pass, and I am going to keep trolling you as that is all you are worth..

I will correct you every now and then when I feel like it...

Oh and here:

Mushy will always be better than Smith 🤡
 
Romali_rotti said:
Kid, you need meds, you showing all signs of major ocd, you are more obsessed with Indian players than the Indian posters on this forum...

I don't care if you think Carey and Smith( yet to score a run in Oz or SA) is better than Pant,

I don't care if you think Bumrah is not better than Starc and Bolland.

I don't care about what you think of Jaiswal or Harry Brook.

All these Indian player comparisons are getting into your mind too much and wrecking your peace.

Might as well tell someone who cares about your comparisons, to me you are nothing but a troll time pass, and I am going to keep trolling you as that is all you are worth..

I will correct you every now and then when I feel like it...

Oh and here:

Mushy will always be better than Smith 🤡
Click to expand...
Lol at Indians trolling me :vk2.

But anyway you are right bro, I'm the troll for suggesting why reddy a 24 fc avg batter at no 3 is a horrible Idea.

I should have known what I am dealing with. 20 years on the forumn, 0 POTW's. I can see why.
 
mominsaigol said:
Lol at Indians trolling me :vk2.

But anyway you are right bro, I'm the troll for suggesting why reddy a 24 fc avg batter at no 3 is a horrible Idea.

I should have known what I am dealing with. 20 years on the forumn, 0 POTW's. I can see why.
Click to expand...

Mushy better than Smith though 🤡
 
Eng need Cook in for Woakes and Dawson in for Bashir. Dawson will provide the batting cushion as Woakes is already not firing. Not sure if they will risk playing Archer in consecutive tests. Even Carse might be a bit fatigued after playing all formats recently. They can actually go in with 5 man pace attack (as Stokes and Overton both can bat and bowl) with Root as the sole spinner for 1 test as well depending on conditions. However I am not sure about Overton's bowling. Apart from Crawley and Pope, Eng have ample replacements for everyone atm. Bethell can replace Pope very well but Stokes likes having Pope as the vc.

India need to drop Nair and pick either Easwaran or Sai.
 
The Bald Eagle said:
Indian team meeting with King Charles
===
View attachment 156144
Click to expand...


‘How did you feel after last batter got out’: King Charles III asks Indian skipper Gill

King Charles III felt Mohammed Siraj’s dismissal was an “unfortunate one” and couldn’t help but ask Shubman Gill about it as he welcomed India’s men’s and women’s cricket teams in the gardens of Clarence House here on Tuesday.

The 76-year-old British Monarch spent a considerable time discussing cricket with Indian cricketers, a meeting that men’s team skipper Gill termed as “amazing” during his chat with the media.

Indian High Commissioner to the UK Vikram Doraiswami and Deputy High Commissioner Sujit Ghosh along with Congress Rajya Sabha MP and BCCI vice-president Rajiv Shukla and secretary Devajit Saikia were also present.

“It was amazing. I think he (King Charles) is very kind and generous… we had some really good conversations,” said Gill.

On Monday, India lost a tantalisingly close Test by 22 runs with last batter Mohammed Siraj getting bowled off England off-spinner Shoaib Bashir’s delivery. The ball trickled back to clip the bails after Siraj played a defensive stroke.

“He did tell us that the way our last batsman got out was quite unfortunate, the ball rolling on to the stumps. And he was just asking us, ‘how did you feel after that?’ And we told him it was an unfortunate match for us… but hopefully, we’ll have better luck in both the next games,” the young Indian skipper said.

Gill spoke about the tremendous support that his team always gets from the Indian diaspora whenever it plays in the United Kingdom.

He added: “I think everywhere we go, we are very lucky and fortunate that we always get good support; and it’s been no different here. Although I think the first couple of days, there were more England supporters at the Lord’s but I think in the last three days we got some really good support for us.” The quality of cricket in the first three Tests have raised the interest level, feels Gill.

“I think the way both the teams played, they showed a lot of passion, and we played with a lot of pride. We gave out everything mentally and physically. And at the end of the day, when you play a Test match that goes on for five days into the last session, and you lose by 20 (22) runs, the winner would definitely be cricket.”

Indian women’s team captain Harmanpreet Kaur also expressed her squad’s excitement on getting an audience with the King. “It was a really nice experience. We have come to England so many times but this was the first opportunity to meet the King. He was very friendly and asked us about how our travel here was,” said Kaur.

“It’s been a very humbling experience, coming here to the Royal House and meeting the King. It was the first time. We came all the way from Southampton but it was really worth it. And the girls were really excited about the visit and we are pleased that we are here,” said women’s team Head Coach Amol Muzumdar.

The special cricket event was hosted by the British Asian Trust, a charity founded by King Charles III to tackle poverty, inequality and injustice in South Asia.

“The British Asian Trust was started through a cricket match between India and Pakistan in 2007, which His Majesty – then as Prince of Wales – had helped organise and so it’s very poignant to be here today at Clarence House,” said Hitan Mehta, executive director of the Trust.

“We have been very grateful for His Majesty’s continued support for our work in India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka. It’s been great to see how it’s grown from a very small organisation to helping 13 million people across South Asia,” he said.

The men’s team left for Manchester ahead of their fourth Test against England at the Old Trafford stadium starting July 23. The women’s team returned to Southampton for their One-Day International clash with England on Wednesday after a victorious T20I series win 3-2 over England.

www.tribuneindia.com

‘How did you feel after last batter got out’: King Charles III asks Indian skipper Gill - The Tribune

India lost a close Test by 22 runs with last batter Mohammed Siraj getting bowled off England off-spinner Shoaib Bashir’s delivery.
www.tribuneindia.com www.tribuneindia.com
 
BunnyRabbit said:
Eng need Cook in for Woakes and Dawson in for Bashir. Dawson will provide the batting cushion as Woakes is already not firing. Not sure if they will risk playing Archer in consecutive tests. Even Carse might be a bit fatigued after playing all formats recently. They can actually go in with 5 man pace attack (as Stokes and Overton both can bat and bowl) with Root as the sole spinner for 1 test as well depending on conditions.
Click to expand...
Overton and Cook have both been released back to their counties.

Dawson for Bashir is nailed on.
Atkinson in for Woakes (rested) is possible.
Bethell might get a batting berth but that is a long shot.
 
James said:
Overton and Cook have both been released back to their counties.

Dawson for Bashir is nailed on.
Atkinson in for Woakes (rested) is possible.
Bethell might get a batting berth but that is a long shot.
Click to expand...
Atkinson would definitely be an upgrade over the current Woakes.
Releasing Cook is a meh decision. The guy has toiled hard in county for years and his record is easily better than all other seamers. Yet still isn't able to get a look in especially at home.
Stokes and Baz have previously preferred Leach over spin allrounders so not sure what they're planning on.
Will Archer play the next test as well?
Can't see Bethell getting a game this series barring an injury or some massive blunder by either Pope or Crawley.
 
England can consider zafar gohar as well who is available for selection i think.

Zafar gohar has done well in county cricket for seasons. He is very good both with the bat and ball. He is actually an upgrade over liam Dawson who is not bad either.
 
I just checked liam Dawson's fc stats. He is a proper batsman. He has scored over 10000 runs with 18 hundreds.

He should have gotten more chances in the test side over leach and others.
Now he is 35 years old without much future but he can be very useful for England.
 
England docked WTC points for slow over rate in Lord's Test

The Ben Stokes-led side were also fined 10 per cent of their match fee after the contest.

England have been docked two ICC World Test Championship points for their slow over rate in their recently-completed match against India at Lord's.

This came under Article 16.11.2 of the ICC World Test Championship playing conditions, by which a side is penalised one point for each over short, and after time allowances were taken into consideration.

After the deduction, England's tally in the World Test Championship standings dropped from 24 to 22 out of 36 points, consequently reducing their point percentage from 66.67% to 61.11%.

As a result, England has slipped from second to third position in the table, with Sri Lanka now overtaking them to claim the second spot.

In addition, they were also fined 10 per cent of their match fee.

This was as per Article 2.22 of the ICC Code of Conduct for Players and Player Support Personnel, which relates to minimum over-rate offences, players are fined five per cent of their match fee for every over their side fails to bowl in the allotted time.

England captain Ben Stokes pled guilty to the offence and accepted the proposed sanction imposed by Richie Richardson of the Emirates ICC Elite Panel of Match Referees. Due to this, there was no need of a formal hearing.

The charges were levelled by on-field umpires Paul Reiffel and Sharfuddoula Ibne Shahid, third umpire Ahsan Raza and fourth umpire Graham Lloyd.

In the enthralling third Test, both sides were locked in a heated battle that went right down to the final session on Day 5. After posting identical scores in the first innings, the game remained evenly poised until England built a 192-run lead, leaving India to chase in the fourth innings.

An early collapse made it seem like the game was all but over, but a spirited lower-order fightback, led by Ravindra Jadeja, brought India agonisingly close. However, England eventually held their nerve to seal a thrilling 22-run victory in emphatic fashion.

ICC
 
Devadwal said:
This Indian team is performing better than people's expectations including me. Anyways I'm Fully backing them to strong comeback in next game. :kp
Click to expand...
Whoever wins the next game will win the final match as well. I feel.
 
followed said:
Lol clown Indian fans are still delusional after getting humiliated so badly in last 11 matches.
I don't know where does that arrogance come from.
I would like to see archer breaking some bones in next test
Click to expand...
Let’s hope he doesn’t break his own ligaments first

But yes India is trash in the last 11 games
 
AAli98 said:
A traditional bouncy old Trafford wicket put archer & wood in Ind won’t cross 150 & half of the team will end up in hospital.
Click to expand...
Sure go ahead and try

India plays pace and bounce well though. You will be surprised
And if wickets are spicy, Indian bowlers will be deadly too.

We lost the last game due to dropped catches and one silly run out
 
I will now consider it to be a good performance (for young team) if they win this match again, even if they lose the next match and end up 3-2.

There are some loopholes to be covered... No.3 batter (Sai Sudarshan or anyone should be properly groomed...) 3rd seamer (if Akashdeep is the answer then he should develop more flexibility to bowl on different pitches & different conditions) PLUS we need good backup seamers (better than Prasidh).

Also if Jadeja & Sundar are the answers (as a package) for a specialist No.6 batsman and specialist overseas spinner (sure they are better than bits & piece), then one of them should bat bit more up the order (maybe Jadeja at No.5) and the other should be effective in overseas tests (maybe Sundar... he should develop lot more variations - maybe like Prime Ashwin)

Nitish Reddy is improved his bowling (at least in 1 test), but in batting instead of blocking he should score runs quickly!

And Jaiswal should be careful in shot selections (he is an opener and has to deal with new ball and fresh pitch).

Overall, batsmen will have to come out of Milestone Madness (inflicted by yesteryear superstars) and concentrate on team success (like our young T20 team). KL Rahul is aging and he is not going to surpass Tendulkar's or Kohli's or anyone's century tally! Why should he bother about centuries? It baffles me! He should bat like a sage in this team safeguarding the youngsters (It is luck that he is still in the Indian Team for the way he got tangled with his temparament, fitness, form, etc in the past!)
 
Since 1936, India have battled at Old Trafford nine times in Test cricket… but a win still eludes them

1752682576646.png
 
Liam Dawson could be a great addition....much better than Bashir anyway. Bethell could replace Woakes. Atkinson must be included in XI too as Indian XI will be strengthened by Sai
 
Hopefully England will kill off the series by making it 3-1. :dav

Otherwise, we may see many rowdy behaviors from India. :inti
 
If Gus is fit, he should play... SHoaib bashir is already replaced by dawson which is a good choice.
 
On flat wickets batsmen are meant to help you win games

On seaming tracks bowlers are meant to win you games
 
jnaveen1980 said:
or Australian bowling lol

scoring at 5.49 against Great cummins/starc/Hazlewood. Escaped with rain. PRasidh Cummins looking at the ER

Loading…

www.espncricinfo.com
Click to expand...
Atleast Prasid cummins is better than the second coming of mcgrath aka Scott boland as per ppers. Boland got dropped after 115 average on normal pitches with an almighty sr or 142 🤣
 
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