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England vs New Zealand | 2nd Test | Leeds | May 29-Jun 2, 2015

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Junaids said:
[MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION], what's the minimum score we need to stay in the match?
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It's so hard to say! I don't think this wicket will break up on the last day, but another day of rain is coming so it might peter out into a draw.
 
A quick comment about the legacy of these two teams.

The relative strength of Test teams is basically determined by their fast bowling attacks. It's incredibly rare for a team to have more than 2 top quality quick bowlers.

Australia and South Africa's top class Test bowlers are the wrong side of 30 and their successors - Pat Cummins and Marchant de Lange - have had their careers ruined by injury. For England there are worse problems - Jimmy Anderson is almost 33 leaving only the 29 year old Stuart Broad.

In contrast, Trent Boult is 25, Tim Southee is 26 and Milne and Henry are even younger. New Zealand's problem is that they have no replacements for their veteran batsmen McCullum and Taylor.

All of which means that it is now or never for New Zealand, with a tour of Australia to follow in 5 months time. These few months are the time for them to make a push for the summit in Test cricket.
 
There is some fairly good batting talent coming through the youth ranks in NZ.

Leo Carter is a name to watch out for.
 
What we really need is to uncover a consistent spinner. Even if its another holding type like Vettori became after his back injuries.

They've tried to uncover attacking types like Ish Sodhi but NZ is just not the environment for these guys to grow in.
 
The Kevin Pietersen vacancy watch continues:

In the five Tests in the last six weeks, here is how his competitors have fared:

Gary Ballance
10 and 122 v WI
77 and 81* v WI
18 and 23 v WI
1 and 0 v NZ
29 v NZ

Ian Bell
143 and 11
1
0 and 0
1 and 29
12

Joe Root
83 and 59
182*
33 and 1
98 and 84
1

Joe Root is as safe as houses. But Gary Ballance and Ian Bell look awfully vulnerable with Mitchell Johnson and Ryan Harris next to arrive.....
 
In fact, after 7 consecutive Test innings below 30, I put it to you that the only thing keeping Ian Bell in the England side is Andrew Strauss' hatred of Kevin Pietersen.
 
Junaids said:
The Kevin Pietersen vacancy watch continues:

In the five Tests in the last six weeks, here is how his competitors have fared:

Gary Ballance
10 and 122 v WI
77 and 81* v WI
18 and 23 v WI
1 and 0 v NZ
29 v NZ

Ian Bell
143 and 11
1
0 and 0
1 and 29
12

Joe Root
83 and 59
182*
33 and 1
98 and 84
1

Joe Root is as safe as houses. But Gary Ballance and Ian Bell look awfully vulnerable with Mitchell Johnson and Ryan Harris next to arrive.....
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Bell has been good against us for a long time now. Root is a good player. But you should be more worried about the tall right armer in our bowling attack. MJ and Harris aren't what they used to be.
 
Getting ugly now.

Could be quite a big lead, 70 or so.
 
Say what you like about McCullums tactics good or bad but you can't deny he has brought a real fight back quality to this NZ side.

NZ sides of the past would just roll over in many of the situations NZ has slithered out of in the past 18 months.
 
Random Aussie said:
Bell has been good against us for a long time now. Root is a good player. But you should be more worried about the tall right armer in our bowling attack. MJ and Harris aren't what they used to be.
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Yes, I think Hazlewood is terrific, but I'm hopeful that he will bowl the wrong length in England! :)

I think that Ian Bell has gone into another of his Shermanator phases. I really doubt that he will be much use against Australia.
 
Excellent batting by England today. True test match batting reaping dividends yet again.
 
Space Cat said:
Say what you like about McCullums tactics good or bad but you can't deny he has brought a real fight back quality to this NZ side.

NZ sides of the past would just roll over in many of the situations NZ has slithered out of in the past 18 months.
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The thing is, I think that for the entire England innings he has been back to the normal McCullum, not the crazed warrior. New Zealand have played really good Test cricket throughout the innings, including shutting down the scoring rate from overs 20-80.

I love this McCullum. At his best he is like Michael Clarke - attacking, but able to switch between defence and attack when required.
 
Space Cat said:
Say what you like about McCullums tactics good or bad but you can't deny he has brought a real fight back quality to this NZ side.

NZ sides of the past would just roll over in many of the situations NZ has slithered out of in the past 18 months.
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Problem is, when it came to probably the biggest match of all during those 18 months - against England at Lords - NZ snatched defeat from the jaws of victory, over and over again. Still something for B-Mac to prove, still a long way to go in this game too.
 
Tail probably better off to have a whack here. Going to snick off eventually so might as well snatch a boundary or two.
 
James said:
Problem is, when it came to probably the biggest match of all during those 18 months - against England at Lords - NZ snatched defeat from the jaws of victory, over and over again. Still something for B-Mac to prove, still a long way to go in this game too.
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It hasn't been perfect by any means. We got utterly thumped by Pakistan in UAE in the first test as well but were able to fight back and improve as the series went on.

A 3 test series would of been great.
 
There is no side in world cricket that is going around the world and winning away tests everywhere at the moment. Saffers are probably the closest to that.

NZ has improved vastly but they are still very much part of the pack.
 
This is exactly when poking and prodding doesn't work and NewZealand style slogging pays great dividends. England have collapsed in a panicked heap but people won't question this because they are just blocking rather than trying to turn the tide. Only Broad is hitting, but I know it isn't a strategy, but just that he's too scared to bat the way he normally would.
 
Credit must also go to Mark Cragi too - he bowled a LOT better yesterday than he did at Lords.

Southee has got NZ's noses in front now.
 
NZ have been excellent this morning but the tail needs to be cleaned up soon to keep the advantage. Bit of rain in the air.
 
Now this collapse have only proved that Eng would have been better of attacking when they could afford to i mean when they were in charge yesterday instead of going at snail pace of going at 2.7, which is upto modern scoring rate in tests, and especially this series, if they were going at above 4 they would have been in lead by now, and this collapse wouldn't have hurt them this much, so aggression 1 attrition 0, till now.
 
Markhor said:
Credit must also go to Mark Cragi too - he bowled a LOT better yesterday than he did at Lords.

Southee has got NZ's noses in front now.
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Had he bowled like this at Lords and not the awful short stuff then it would of likely ended in a draw.

Hes a useful spinner when he bowls properly which is not often enough and his batting and slip catching is an asset. Don't think hes up to scratch as the sole spinner.
 
I think its time to give the whole attacking/defending stuff a rest now. Becoming very tedious.
 
I hate when bowlers bowl brilliant length to run through quality batsmen and then start dishing up short balls to the tailenders to try bounce them out.
 
So basically this is going to be a one-innings shootout now!

Nice to see Stuart Broad getting a few runs. And no, I don't mind him doing what he's doing given the match situation!
 
leatherface58 said:
There are roads everywhere these days. Ironically, Indian and Sri Lankan tracks with their pockmarked nature are the most bowler friendly pitches out there apart from West Indies. Even Zimbabwe have not been too bad.

England, Oz, NZ and even Saffers have come up with total roads. Disappointing.
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There has to be a balance struck - I don't mind a pitch where you can score a good 400-450 as long as it has something in it for the bowlers. Above all else a pitch must be results orientated. Pitches don't really deteriorate as the Test goes on that much nowadays either.

This Headingley pitch is not a road. It has flattened out and the surface has become browner but there was a tinge of grass on the first day and with it always being cloudy up here in Yorkshire you'll get the ball nipping around. There's good pace and carry, but if you bowl short it sits up nicely.

Considering both the pitch and climates - Headingley and Old Trafford provide the most sporting conditions for Test cricket in the world.
 
Space Cat said:
I hate when bowlers bowl brilliant length to run through quality batsmen and then start dishing up short balls to the tailenders to try bounce them out.
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Happens to anyone who bowls non-stop for an hour.
 
When Boult got that ball hit straight back at him, did you see the footmarks he has left bowling over the wicket?

Perfect line and length for an off-spinner late in the game.
 
Horrendous batting by these two. What are they doing out there? Trying to score runs or something?
 
English conditions have always been more about the overhead conditions than the pitch. Not much you can do when the sun is out.
 
Bowling change works. Craig has earned the chance for a few wickets bowling well yesterday.
 
Craig gets the breakthrough but that was an excellent partnership. Always useful if your tailenders can bat. Some of Pakistan's tailenders can barely hold the bat.
 
This game would've taken a different complexion if Cook and Lyth capitalized on the full tosses and long hops that Craig bowled in his first few overs. They let him settle into a length and the whole bowling attack works a lot better now.
 
Just as the sun starts to come out it's Englands turn to bowl! Lucky kiwis getting the bets conditions!
 
The short ball hasnt worked at all this series but lets just bowl it non stop anyway.
 
Matt Henry's action is nearly the exact same as Shane Bond's. Shame he doesn't have the pace of Shane.
 
Space Cat said:
Or the swing. I think he is probably better suited to ODI bowling but he is still very young.
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ODI bowling definitely comes more naturally to him. Highly rate him in that format but he hasn't transferred his form onto the Test arena that's for sure.
 
f.b.m said:
Dude, this is his second game.
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:))

I wasn't judging him or anything, mate. It was more of a general assumption that he hasn't looked as consistently threatening as he does in ODIs. He's young and has time on his side, so I'm sure he'll push on in this format as well if his ODI performances are anything to go by.
 
Anchorman said:
:))

I wasn't judging him or anything, mate. It was more of a general assumption that he hasn't looked as consistently threatening as he does in ODIs. He's young and has time on his side, so I'm sure he'll push on in this format as well if his ODI performances are anything to go by.
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Might be more of an issue adapting to the Duke ball than the test match format imo.
 
Anchorman said:
ODI bowling definitely comes more naturally to him. Highly rate him in that format but he hasn't transferred his form onto the Test arena that's for sure.
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Back of a length seems a more natural length for him rather than fuller length you want in test. In saying that Boult and Southee weren't exactly overnight successes and we shouldnt judge him to much yet.
 
Even stevens !

350 apiece. Sun is forecast for the rest of the day so it should be easier for the NZ batsmen.
 
Some free runs given to Barbie. Nevertheless, a decent overall performance from the team with the ball. Time to set them a total of 300+ atleast.

Hopefully, someone will recreate the epic partnership of Williamson and Watling from against Sri Lanka.
 
It's now much clearer.

Single innings each, 250 overs left in the match. Even if a half-day is lost to rain, still 200 overs left.

Apart from Bradman, no team has ever won at Headingley by scoring 340 or more or by lasting more than 90 overs. Ever.

That means that quick, risky runs are not a solution for NZ. They need to ensure that they bat 120 overs. That means that ideally each of their top six batsmen aims to bat at least 20 overs.

If they do that their lead should be 350+, and they should have 120 overs to bowl England out, so that even a half-day lost to rain leaves them 75 overs on a wearing pitch with footmarks opening up for Craig.

So they need to set out their stall to bat 120 overs. And preserve their wickets in hand in case it rains sooner rather than later and they end up needing quick runs.
 
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I hate these Kiwis with their stupid ODI tactics. Test cricket should be all about iron defensive techniques and batting at two per over. Never mind KP, bring back Boycott.
 
Robert said:
I hate these Kiwis with their stupid ODI tactics. Test cricket should be all about iron defensive techniques and batting at two per over. Never mind KP, bring back Boycott.
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Do you want to drop Broad forever for trying to score at an outrageous, un-proper run rate?
 
Robert said:
I hate these Kiwis with their stupid ODI tactics. Test cricket should be all about iron defensive techniques and batting at two per over. Never mind KP, bring back Boycott.
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The saddest that I have ever been about the death of a cricketer was:

1) when Ken Barrington died on tour in Barbados - where he'd made his maiden ton 21 years earlier, and
2) when an elderly Trevor Bailey died in a breakfast fire at home in Southend.

The glory of those two - both before my time - was the legend of their backs-to-the-wall heroically slow rearguard innings.
 
Junaids said:
The saddest that I have ever been about the death of a cricketer was:

1) when Ken Barrington died on tour in Barbados - where he'd made his maiden ton 21 years earlier, and
2) when an elderly Trevor Bailey died in a breakfast fire at home in Southend.

The glory of those two - both before my time - was the legend of their backs-to-the-wall heroically slow rearguard innings.
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Remember Wally Grout's comment about Ken Barrington: "when he walked in to bat it was as if there was a Union Jack trailing behind him."

You just can't beat those tough batsmen who sell their wicket dearly. (Poor Wally Grout died of his second heart attack even younger, at 41 whereas Barrington was 50.)
 
Bhai will be the key here. Have to hit him out. If we get too defensive thinking of the cracks, then we will surrender quickly.
 
Junaids said:
It's now much clearer.

Single innings each, 250 overs left in the match. Even if a half-day is lost to rain, still 200 overs left.

Apart from Bradman, no team has ever won at Headingley by scoring 340 or more or by lasting more than 90 overs. Ever.

That means that quick, risky runs are not a solution for NZ. They need to ensure that they bat 120 overs. That means that ideally each of their top six batsmen aims to bat at least 20 overs.

If they do that their lead should be 350+, and they should have 120 overs to bowl England out, so that even a half-day lost to rain leaves them 75 overs on a wearing pitch with footmarks opening up for Craig.

So they need to set out their stall to bat 120 overs. And preserve their wickets in hand in case it rains sooner rather than later and they end up needing quick runs.
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It might have missed you, but NewZealand won't have a team strategy. It's clear they've decided that they're better of letting each batsmen play however they want to. I expect Latham, Williamson and Taylor to be quite slow, almost the way Junaids wants and I expect that the risk will be hacking away as they did in the first innings.
 
[MENTION=135134]CricketAnalyst[/MENTION], I'm not sure that indiscipline is the way to go from here.

McCullum and Ronchi could reasonably open their shoulders once the lead reaches 260 if they have wickets in hand. But with any fewer than 260 runs already on the board the risks of an attacking approach outweigh the benefits.
 
Williamson often hangs his bat out when the bowlers bowl from wide of the crease.
 
Junaids said:
[MENTION=135134]CricketAnalyst[/MENTION], I'm not sure that indiscipline is the way to go from here.

McCullum and Ronchi could reasonably open their shoulders once the lead reaches 260 if they have wickets in hand. But with any fewer than 260 runs already on the board the risks of an attacking approach outweigh the benefits.
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That wasn't prescriptive, it was predictive. Irrespective of what they should do, that's what is going to actually happen.

The point is they feel that the loss of expected value from asking a batsman to bat according to the situation rather than what he's good, exceeds the value they gain by having their play correspond to the situation but not be very good.
 
Junaids said:
[MENTION=135134]CricketAnalyst[/MENTION], I'm not sure that indiscipline is the way to go from here.

McCullum and Ronchi could reasonably open their shoulders once the lead reaches 260 if they have wickets in hand. But with any fewer than 260 runs already on the board the risks of an attacking approach outweigh the benefits.
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By the way, I'd rather Mac open his shoulders at 35/3 as well. A momentum shift is sorely needed; England collapsed because they just didn't try to shift the momentum. In these conditions, either runs will flow or wickets will fall.
 
England's slip catching has been awful this series. Need to seriously sort it out or they'll have zero chance of beating Australia.
 
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