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England vs Pakistan | 3rd Test | Southampton | Aug 21-25, 2020 | Day 1

shariqnoor said:
No. I don't agree with that approach. Sohail's experience doesn't count when he bowls at 125kph in his spells with no control like Abbas. He would've been pillaged here on this slow pitch. It's just that our bowlers need to develop patience especially Naseem.

232-4 is a par score right now on this pitch. There is nothing in this pitch for the bowlers. We're panicking because we all know Pakistan can get themselves bowled out for 70 on a cement pitch.

And it's not Misbah or Waqar's fault. Too many times we want to find a scapegoat and we turn to coaches. Did Mickey Arthur make Pakistan a potent bowling attack? No he couldn't. Nobody can. If you want to find a scapegoat, it's the bowler himself. The bowlers themselves have to develop patience. No coach in the world can develop that for you.
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Think the truth lies somewhere in the middle... coaches can play a part, especially in the case of inexperience. Having said that, if nothing’s happening it’s just basic cricketing acumen to dry up runs and try and break the batsmen’s rhythms.
 
It looks like Crawley's having feast day today. Jim Crawley won 4 races in York Ebor festival today. Now Zack Crawley scored a century.
 
All future opposition can thank us for allowing the English selectors to stick with Butler. Would be fun to watch when he comes down under and gets absolutely battered.
 
New ball is 9 overs away. Need to rest Shaheen and Abbas. Some part timers can be dried along with Naseem and Yasir though Yasir has bowled quite a lot of overs in a go.
 
Jeetlodil said:
Wait till england bowl
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Pak batting can struggle due to loose cricket but there isnt much in the pitch once the ball is soft. There is no pace in the wicket and when ball gets softer its difficult to do much
 
Yk313 said:
Good piece. I want to focus on the attritional part - outside of the UAE (primarily interested in the last decade) where spinners can play that attritional game, PAK are not proponents of channel bowling at mid-80s, for long periods. Lack of bounce (height) is not helpful either.
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No - it’s how they are groomed. Previous generation was County product, they knew how to choke batsmen bowling on a 6-3 field; these are T20 product - span of concentration is four overs.

Height has absolutely nothing in this (yes, taller bowlers of similar skill should do better than shorter ones). 1988 New Years Test at SCG, Australia won the toss and batted first on a burnt brown SCG wicket in 40C. One certain Malcolm Marshall realised that he won’t be able to blast Aussies - he opted for a little shorter run-up and ended first innings like 29-12-35-6 ...,.. and he was 5’10/11”
 
Pakistan should have played Faheem Ashraf instead of Fawad Alam. A full time 5th bowling medium pace, pace option is vital in SENA conditions with nothing in it for the pacers and spinners. Atleast by playing a 4th seamer, the bowlers could have been used in short sharp bursts in all their spells. Our team management just never learns and continues to apply the UAE formula in SENA conditions.
 
Every time Pakistan has played Faheem Ashraf, the other bowlers have been more effective.
 
yasirs too streaky, getting shown his true aukaat.
 
Yk313 said:
Think the truth lies somewhere in the middle... coaches can play a part, especially in the case of inexperience. Having said that, if nothing’s happening it’s just basic cricketing acumen to dry up runs and try and break the batsmen’s rhythms.
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Yeah but the underlying assumption in your comment is that the coaches aren't doing anything. I'm pretty sure they have talked about this situation. It's just that the bowlers are incapable of executing plans.
 
[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] - Yasir must have lost another Test here in his defamed career ... I can see him hitting a hundred on day one.
 
This was arguably the most overhyped attack ever leading into a test series.

2 young bowlers with no real credentials and a over the hill leggie
 
Butler can be a real handy batsman down the order for Poms , his keeping is not that good but with bat he can be match winner.
 
9 from the over, Eng will start treating this like t20
 
This is another typical PAK - always, always players making a comeback or on the last life before being dropped some how hurts them. Even Marcus North played a dozen more Test for his six wickets!!!!!!!!!!!
 
1/3 of overs are bowled by leg spinner on first day in 72 overs.

Pacers have been pretty poor.
 
The problem with this Pakistan attack is that they lack an enforcer... someone who can run in and bowl short balls on demand for 8-9 overs at a stretch. Bowlers like Shami, Stokes, Wagner etc
 
tomorrow could be a torturous day if Eng put pedal to the metal
 
Game over for Pakistan. No way they are winning this now.
 
Horrible bowling. These youngsters have failed tremendously. They cannot bowl with.tbe old ball
 
It takes an understanding of diamond to know what is happening or will happen in the game. I already made the prediction on first page of this thread that England can put 400 on board on this pitch and they are well on the way.

The only concern was that they may bat poorly which they didn't and have literally snatched all hopes from Pakistani fans in this tour.
 
Pakistan bowling is inexperience and you cant blame them, let them have this series as a failure in future they will become better, lets worried abt future not present. Haider and Imam should have played this test as well, instead of asad and fawad. Seems like old age misbah is going to give these kids chances when they are in their 30s.
 
Manunited18 said:
So how did Steyn and marshall succeed in test cricket to be considered arguably in the top 5 best fast bowlers of all time
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The bowlers you mentions are perhaps the two biggest exceptions that defy the trend. The reason why they made it to the top is simply because they had exceptional bowling skills with the new and old ball.

The importance of height is very much evident in Australia's side who currently have the best pace attack in the world right now. The average height of their 3 pacers (Cummins, Starc and Hazlewood) is 6"5 and the shortest is Cummins at 6"4.
 
Zak Crawley (171th England player to Score Test Century)

Test Centurions From Each Team

ENG - 171*
AUS - 138
IND - 86
WI - 85
NZ - 77
SA - 70
PAK - 70
SL - 39
ZIM - 23
BAN - 21
IRE - 1
AFG - 1
 
Sometimes I think why do I bother watching this team and whenever we lose a match I say to myself I won’t watch the next match. And there comes the match day and guess who is sitting on the sofa watching tv :(
 
topspin said:
The bowlers you mentions are perhaps the two biggest exceptions that defy the trend. The reason why they made it to the top is simply because they had exceptional bowling skills with the new and old ball.

The importance of height is very much evident in Australia's side who currently have the best pace attack in the world right now. The average height of their 3 pacers (Cummins, Starc and Hazlewood) is 6"5 and the shortest is Cummins at 6"4.
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what about bumrah, shami and trent boult? even roach
 
topspin said:
The bowlers you mentions are perhaps the two biggest exceptions that defy the trend. The reason why they made it to the top is simply because they had exceptional bowling skills with the new and old ball.

The importance of height is very much evident in Australia's side who currently have the best pace attack in the world right now. The average height of their 3 pacers (Cummins, Starc and Hazlewood) is 6"5 and the shortest is Cummins at 6"4.
Click to expand...

Height indeed helps, but these bowlers had the skills first. I put it this way - without height (I am talking about 6’3”+; obviously someone 5’5” won’t ....) still a pacer can do, not sure if that’s possible without skills. The greatest two Aussies fast bowlers were 5’10” and 6’0” .....
 
Superb by Crawley. Every shot in the book at a fast clip. The #3 problem is sorted out.

PAK have gone too defensive too early again.

But, new ball coming up, two wickets and they are right back in it.
 
Unless PAK gets one back today, Poms will be in a position to bat once here.
 
shariqnoor said:
No. I don't agree with that approach. Sohail's experience doesn't count when he bowls at 125kph in his spells with no control like Abbas. He would've been pillaged here on this slow pitch. It's just that our bowlers need to develop patience especially Naseem.

232-4 is a par score right now on this pitch. There is nothing in this pitch for the bowlers. We're panicking because we all know Pakistan can get themselves bowled out for 70 on a cement pitch.

And it's not Misbah or Waqar's fault. Too many times we want to find a scapegoat and we turn to coaches. Did Mickey Arthur make Pakistan a potent bowling attack? No he couldn't. Nobody can. If you want to find a scapegoat, it's the bowler himself. The bowlers themselves have to develop patience. No coach in the world can develop that for you.
Click to expand...

The fact still remains that a 17 year old and 20 year old kid can only learn it by playing a lot of cricket. They need that time to perfect what they are told, be it test cricket or domestic cricket. It's not that they are not advised to bowl a proper channel.

Everyone can be a wonder on a juicy wicket, but how to deal with a batsman on a flatter deck is mainly to intelligence and previous experiences.
 
sindhiboy said:
what about bumrah, shami and trent boult? even roach
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I'm not saying height is the be-all end-all but Naseem is very short for a fast bowler. He's even shorter than those three bowlers you mentioned. His margin for error is so so small.
 
MMHS said:
No - it’s how they are groomed. Previous generation was County product, they knew how to choke batsmen bowling on a 6-3 field; these are T20 product - span of concentration is four overs.

Height has absolutely nothing in this (yes, taller bowlers of similar skill should do better than shorter ones). 1988 New Years Test at SCG, Australia won the toss and batted first on a burnt brown SCG wicket in 40C. One certain Malcolm Marshall realised that he won’t be able to blast Aussies - he opted for a little shorter run-up and ended first innings like 29-12-35-6 ...,.. and he was 5’10/11”
Click to expand...

I think the first part, or at least my point about spinners in the UAE being comfortable to bowl long attritional spells, could equally have to do with those spinners having stronger FC credentials as much as the conditions being familiar.

The second point is more about cricketing acumen and experience - fully agree. The point about height was simply that all else equal, a taller bowler will at least have one more favourable variable in dead conditions.
 
100 up for Yasir on day 1. Laud the effort to bowl as much as he has but he needs to work on mode B - contain.
 
[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION], as I said - hundred for Yasir on day one - and that’s inside 75 overs .... might hit a double by tea tomorrow. He should be buried alive for losing one more Test he n England.
 
For New Zealand tour, Shan Masood as captain, Zafar, Aamer Yamin, Usman Saluhuddin in the team. Ehsan Adil and Sameen in for pacers.
 
Robert said:
Superb by Crawley. Every shot in the book at a fast clip. The #3 problem is sorted out.

PAK have gone too defensive too early again.

But, new ball coming up, two wickets and they are right back in it.
Click to expand...

Why do you guys call him 'creepy' ?
 
Will all these PP members ever see Pakistan in top 3 test teams for at least 2 years?


I am not seeing this to happen for at least next 20 years.

Pakistan team is mediocre in everything just like our country situation.
 
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