"I would have disowned my son had he done what Mohammad Amir did": Ramiz Raja

[FearlessRoar]

Former PCB chairman Ramiz Raja, during an interview with a local media outlet, clarified his views on the Mohammad Amir spot-fixing saga:

"My views on Mohammad Amir are straightforward. Well, I have not taken up a contract to improve the moral compass in cricket, but I believe society and fans need to understand this. When they [Salman Butt, Mohammad Asif, and Mohammad Amir] were involved in spot-fixing, I was doing cricket commentary at Lord's, and I faced significant backlash for identifying the fixers. The amount of criticism we received in the media the following year is unforgettable. Cricket operates in black and white, there is no room for gray areas. Our cricket fraternity comprises 200 players. This is not a society where we welcome back someone after serving their sentence. While sympathy may exist, there is no forgiveness in my book. God forbid if my son were to engage in similar actions [which Mohammad Amir did], I would disown him"

Do you agree with Ramiz Raja's straightforward perspective on Mohammad Amir?

 

[mominsaigol]

Former PCB chairman Ramiz Raja, during an interview with a local media outlet, clarified his views on the Mohammad Amir spot-fixing saga:

"My views on Mohammad Amir are straightforward. Well, I have not taken up a contract to improve the moral compass in cricket, but I believe society and fans need to understand this. When they [Salman Butt, Mohammad Asif, and Mohammad Amir] were involved in spot-fixing, I was doing cricket commentary at Lord's, and I faced significant backlash for identifying the fixers. The amount of criticism we received in the media the following year is unforgettable. Cricket operates in black and white, there is no room for gray areas. Our cricket fraternity comprises 200 players. This is not a society where we welcome back someone after serving their sentence. While sympathy may exist, there is no forgiveness in my book. God forbid if my son were to engage in similar actions [which Mohammad Amir did], I would disinherit him"

Do you agree with Ramiz Raja's straightforward perspective on Mohammad Amir?

I mean I agree with ramiz raja rn but where was this hate when he was doing commentary and prasing Amir over the moon?

Ik it's live commentary and you can't shoe disdain but still, why does this come out now?

 

[Hitman]

It's not easy to disinherit your blood. Easy to say it hypothetically though. My 9 year old nephew is the darling of our family, and I'll never be able to disinherit him.

 

[Rana]

Heard this interview

Ramiz hasn’t taken the Theka of suffering the embarrassment of what Amir and co did at Lords 2010. There were thousands of British Pakistani fans too who felt embarrassed with the Pakistan team for their actions. Many of them forgave and moved on in 2017 when Amir at least won us the CT17.

19 year old Kid, he’s been through hell since being caught. He’s done his time for his crime. Such comments are not helpful in a scenario when the Pakistan cricket team is already so fragile with the whole Shaheen being removed as captain saga.

Secondly, I think there comes a point in life where your insistence on some moral high ground, this holier than thou attitude at some point will come back to haunt you…and it will really be a disgraceful moment.

Always fear God, and focus on yourself.

Peace.

 

[mominsaigol]

Heard this interview

Ramiz hasn’t taken the Theka of suffering the embarrassment of what Amir and co did at Lords 2010. There were thousands of British Pakistani fans too who felt embarrassed with the Pakistan team for their actions. Many of them forgave and moved on in 2017 when Amir at least won us the CT17.

19 year old Kid, he’s been through hell since being caught. He’s done his time for his crime. Such comments are not helpful in a scenario when the Pakistan cricket team is already so fragile with the whole Shaheen being removed as captain saga.

Secondly, I think there comes a point in life where your insistence on some moral high ground, this holier than thou attitude at some point will come back to haunt you…and it will really be a disgraceful moment.

Always fear God, and focus on yourself.

Peace.

People need to learn to forgive. Amir on return won you a cup, like bruh, come on.

He ain't gonna fix again, I've seen multiple interviews where he claimed truthfully on how much he was threatened by butt and asif and knew it felt wrong but he couldn't do anything.

Even if people claim his age was faked and he was an adult, people don't realise you can be manipulated and abused at any age, It happened with me when I was 20 as well(won't get into it) but the point is, you can be a legal adult of 18 and above and still be manipulated and forced into doing illegal things you don't want to do.

He didn't do so on HIS OWN ACCORD.

However for salman butt and asif I have zero sympathy, even during the nadir Ali podcast these 2 were utter degenerates.

 

[Rana]

I am a firm believer of Allah being the Greatest source of forgiveness

People need to learn to forgive. Amir on return won you a cup, like bruh, come on.

He ain't gonna fix again, I've seen multiple interviews where he claimed truthfully on how much he was threatened by butt and asif and knew it felt wrong but he couldn't do anything.

Even if people claim his age was faked and he was an adult, people don't realise you can be manipulated and abused at any age, It happened with me when I was 20 as well(won't get into it) but the point is, you can be a legal adult of 18 and above and still be manipulated and forced into doing illegal things you don't want to do.

He didn't do so on HIS OWN ACCORD.

However for salman butt and asif I have zero sympathy, even during the nadir Ali podcast these 2 were utter degenerates.

tbh bro I remember that 2010 saga pretty well. Amir became too big for himself at a really young age. The stardom was clearly too much to handle, and he thought he can just get away with everything. People reach that stage of being invincible in their heads. He isn’t as innocent or vulnerable he was made out to be through his defence lawyers.

But it was a huge, huge reality check for him and should have actually resulted in a life ban, not this 5 year nonsense. Anyhow, what’s done is done now. He’s done his time, move on. Life goes on, let him be now.

 

[Savak]

Ramiz shouldn't be taken seriously he has no issues sitting next to Wasim, Waqar and co during commentary when they were fined and censured by the Qayyum report.

 

[MenInG]

People need to learn to forgive. Amir on return won you a cup, like bruh, come on.

So lets see, a Banker embezzles money, gets imprisoned and then is hired by the same bank?

It doesn't happen in real life. Should not happen in cricket also.

Yes Amir has our sympathy and forgiveness (if that is even a word!) but to come back to the same team which he disgraced with his criminal conduct is wrong.

 

[Savak]

So lets see, a Banker embezzles money, gets imprisoned and then is hired by the same bank?

It doesn't happen in real life. Should not happen in cricket also.

Yes Amir has our sympathy and forgiveness (if that is even a word!) but to come back to the same team which he disgraced with his criminal conduct is wrong.

In a bank, you are responsible for managing and securing the money of your clients. If you betray your trust in that job then it is reasonable not to allow you to work in the same job again. Cricketers provide entertainment, they are not custodians for people's money. Cant compare a bank employee to a cricketer.

 

[RidiculousMan]

Former PCB chairman Ramiz Raja, during an interview with a local media outlet, clarified his views on the Mohammad Amir spot-fixing saga:

"My views on Mohammad Amir are straightforward. Well, I have not taken up a contract to improve the moral compass in cricket, but I believe society and fans need to understand this. When they [Salman Butt, Mohammad Asif, and Mohammad Amir] were involved in spot-fixing, I was doing cricket commentary at Lord's, and I faced significant backlash for identifying the fixers. The amount of criticism we received in the media the following year is unforgettable. Cricket operates in black and white, there is no room for gray areas. Our cricket fraternity comprises 200 players. This is not a society where we welcome back someone after serving their sentence. While sympathy may exist, there is no forgiveness in my book. God forbid if my son were to engage in similar actions [which Mohammad Amir did], I would disinherit him"

Do you agree with Ramiz Raja's straightforward perspective on Mohammad Amir?

Interesting that Ramiz used the words disinherit and not disown.

 

[emranabbas]

lets no forget you rameez raja was only in the team because your father was a commissioner other than that your were a nothing player.

 

[FreakCricket]

Ramiz the ultimate creation of nepotism, dude wouldnt have merit a place in cricket team or serve as a chairman. He should think hard, Amir was just 16 groomed by thugs like Asif and crook butt.

 

[emranabbas]

So lets see, a Banker embezzles money, gets imprisoned and then is hired by the same bank?

It doesn't happen in real life. Should not happen in cricket also.

Yes Amir has our sympathy and forgiveness (if that is even a word!) but to come back to the same team which he disgraced with his criminal conduct is wrong.

bro Amir doesn't work in a bank

lets look at it in another way, a young adult goes astray and gets involved in a life of crime then gets caught and has been sentenced.. while in prison he regrets his decisions he made as a young adult and reforms, he is now released from prison should he be isolated from the world or should he get a chance to build his life from scratch?

 

[Rana]

Not sure why the English Media were more pressed with Salman Butt’s actions?

Where they more pressed at the fact that the honour of the game of cricket had been tarnished? Or where they more pressed about the fact that they people who had placed bets on these games were getting ripped off because of the trio’s dishonesty?

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Amir and Ramiz should settle it out in the ring in the "Last Man Standing" match with Mohsin Naqvi as referee

 

[Rana]

Amir and Ramiz should settle it out in the ring in the "Last Man Standing" match with Mohsin Naqvi as referee

Ramiz needs to settle his beef with Najam Sethi first

“They stormed into my office at midnight and didn’t even let me take my laptop!”

 

[zarak]

No one cares. This is not Ramiz's family business, this the PCB and there are many stakeholders who do not share his view. They are willing to forgive and move on.

 

[Swashbuckler]

Amir did his time, saw jail life at a young age, has been punished enough. He had the potential to be an ATG and a superstar of world cricket, but greed killed that dream. Not achieving your potential is no small thing. That will hurt Amir for the rest of his life and rightly so.

Wish desis have such high standards for our crooked politicians, most of whom are worse than serial killers and terrorists. Pretty sure in real life Ramiz will be close to some politicians with actual blood on their hands and money looted from the poor.

If our people call out politicians, bureaucrats and police with same regularity as we call out cricketers and celebs, maybe we will exit our third world status in the next 50 years instead of never.

 

[Rana]

Amir did his time, saw jail life at a young age, has been punished enough. He had the potential to be an ATG and a superstar of world cricket, but greed killed that dream. Not achieving your potential is no small thing. That will hurt Amir for the rest of his life and rightly so.

Wish desis have such high standards for our crooked politicians, most of whom are worse than serial killers and terrorists. Pretty sure in real life Ramiz will be close to some politicians with actual blood on their hands and money looted from the poor.

If our people call out politicians, bureaucrats and police with same regularity as well call out cricketers and celebs, maybe we will exit our third world status in the next 50 years instead of never.

Ramiz’s criticism of Pakistan cricket teams pathetic style of play before he was chairman versus defending an even more pathetic style of play after becoming chairman is evident for everyone to see.

Hypocrite of the highest order

 

[mominsaigol]

So lets see, a Banker embezzles money, gets imprisoned and then is hired by the same bank?

It doesn't happen in real life. Should not happen in cricket also.

Yes Amir has our sympathy and forgiveness (if that is even a word!) but to come back to the same team which he disgraced with his criminal conduct is wrong.

Fair point and I agree with you to some extent.

Normally the bank wouldn't hire the person, but it still depends.

It the banker gets a prison sentence and serves said prison sentence, then he has a criminal record that would go on his resume and background check.

He has served his prison sentence, and has been rehabilitated legally, so now it's upto the bank to decide if his criminal record doesn't warrant a place deapite his resume showing he has the skills.

In the case of Amir, I would agree with you if pcb like the bank looked at his criminal record and decided to axe him for good, BUT THEY DIDNT.

they let him back into the squad, so clearly in amir's case pcb aka the bank decoded to forgoe the criminal record.

 

[RyanRyan10]

Too much whataboutery on this thread.

 

[Major]

I will never forget what happened that day and can never forgive the trio for it.

It was the worst day of Pakistan Cricket. No matter how many matches we lost and may lose in the future, I would never feel that much ashamed which I felt that day. Every Pakistani suffered that day, even PP was targeted, and all of this happened due to the acts of Amir, Butt and Asif.

I used to wake up early in the morning in those days to watch test cricket and to find these people playing with the credibility of the game left a very bad taste for many of us.

Indians as always, took the opportunity to bash Pakistan that night where they started proposing the idea of banning Pakistan Cricket altogether from ICC. And you know what, we couldnt say anything in reply because we were so embarrassed by what had transpired.

So what Rameez has said is right, although i disagree with Rameez on many things, but his stance agaisnt Fixers was always a good stance.

Playing for Pakistan is an honor not your birth right.

For me, a player like Imran Farhat will have more respect than Amir because Farhat did not sell his country for a few pounds like Amir did.

 

[mominsaigol]

In a bank, you are responsible for managing and securing the money of your clients. If you betray your trust in that job then it is reasonable not to allow you to work in the same job again. Cricketers provide entertainment, they are not custodians for people's money. Cant compare a bank employee to a cricketer.

When you lose your job and get arrested it goes on your criminal record and you get a sentence.

Once you serve that sentence (it can depend on country to country, but in terms of Australia) you can reapply for jobs even at the same occupation.

However your crime is now permanently on your criminal record and background check, however that doesn't mean you can't apply, if your job occupation allows you to come back then perfect but they also have a right to say, we can't hire you as have a record.

In pcb's case they could have just said yeah we can't hire you back Amir, sorry, but they didn't do that now?

They allowed him back in, and once he's allowed back in he gets the dame treatment that other workers get, that is the law here and it apparently is the same law in cricket as Amir is clearly in the team, and clearly bowling with zero restrictions and clearly playing under the same rules as everyone else.

 

[mominsaigol]

I will never forget what happened that day and can never forgive the trio for it.

It was the worst day of Pakistan Cricket. No matter how many matches we lost and may lose in the future, I would never feel that much ashamed which I felt that day. Every Pakistani suffered that day, even PP was targeted, and all of this happened due to the acts of Amir, Butt and Asif.

I used to wake up early in the morning in those days to watch test cricket and to find these people playing with the credibility of the game left a very bad taste for many of us.

Indians as always, took the opportunity to bash Pakistan that night where they started proposing the idea of banning Pakistan Cricket altogether from ICC. And you know what, we couldnt say anything in reply because we were so embarrassed by what had transpired.

So what Rameez has said is right, although i disagree with Rameez on many things, but his stance agaisnt Fixers was always a good stance.

Playing for Pakistan is an honor not your birth right.

For me, a player like Imran Farhat will have more respect than Amir because Farhat did not sell his country for a few pounds like Amir did.

The thing that's your own personal sentiment, and truth be told I get where you're coming from I really do.

But personal sentiments are one thing and reality is another.

In the real world once you get arrested with a crime and serve your sentence, that crime is on your record forever, but it doesn't prevent you from reapplying which is what Amir did.

If pcb had a problem, they could just say, hey we can't have you back, you have a criminal record. They didn't do that, so you shpuld blame the pcb then for not taking a stand .

It also doesn't change the fact that his spell in the final was a massive massive factor in us winning, nothing on earth will change that sentiment.

As for Indian cricket, them asking the world to ban us from cricket altogether has no value, it reflects their mentality if anything.

Ironically the attack in the Sri lankan cricket team would have a bigger case for it since the country attacked a team and tried to kill them.

Here it's just the actions of 3 individuals, not the whole domestic or international circuit.

 

[mominsaigol]

I am a firm believer of Allah being the Greatest source of forgiveness

tbh bro I remember that 2010 saga pretty well. Amir became too big for himself at a really young age. The stardom was clearly too much to handle, and he thought he can just get away with everything. People reach that stage of being invincible in their heads. He isn’t as innocent or vulnerable he was made out to be through his defence lawyers.

But it was a huge, huge reality check for him and should have actually resulted in a life ban, not this 5 year nonsense. Anyhow, what’s done is done now. He’s done his time, move on. Life goes on, let him be now.

Again I agree with you. No problems, but as I said, personal sentiments and what we believe are one thing and reality is another.

The reality is he was given a 5 year ban. And that pcb allowed him back in.

Thats all I'm saying.

 

[Rana]

Again I agree with you. No problems, but as I said, personal sentiments and what we believe are one thing and reality is another.

The reality is he was given a 5 year ban. And that pcb allowed him back in.

Thats all I'm saying.

Yeah it’s done now. No point asking for him to be banned/excluded again. Just get on with it.

 

[Swashbuckler]

Real match-fixing in international games happened in 90s but many of the people involved there escaped punishment or even scrutiny. Not just Pakistanis, but also Indians, Australians, South Africans.The Pak trio were pretty dumb to get caught like that.

 

[mominsaigol]

Yeah it’s done now. No point asking for him to be banned/excluded again. Just get on with it.

If PCB wanted to take a stand, they shpuld have done so.

If I was ceo and my employee returned 5 years later after a crime, I would just say I'm not accepting his resume due to his criminal record and that he Brought shame to my country.

But If I let him back in, then it's my fault, by law I have to treat him fairly.

 

[160KPH]

Not sure why the English Media were more pressed with Salman Butt’s actions?

Where they more pressed at the fact that the honour of the game of cricket had been tarnished? Or where they more pressed about the fact that they people who had placed bets on these games were getting ripped off because of the trio’s dishonesty?

Because Salman Butt was the captain of a Test team which is the highest honor you can possibly get in this sport. People at the time gave more leeway to Amir because he was 19. But Salman Butt was not just some 19 year old kid beginning to play cricket.

 

[mominsaigol]

Because Salman Butt was the captain of a Test team which is the highest honor you can possibly get in this sport. People at the time gave more leeway to Amir because he was 19. But Salman Butt was not just some 19 year old kid beginning to play cricket.

I completly agree here.

I also think the reason for why pcb let Amir back in but not asif or salman butt because of amir's defendant lawyers made a good case of it not being solely his fault( again whether he's a victim or not doesn't matter, I'm just stating what the defense lawyers presented)

Whereas butt and asif are always viewed as the perpetrators.

But yeah, I think the English media was pressed about salman butt for a bery good reason.

edit: why is "pressed" bold? Weird Glitch lol

 

[Savak]

However if the PCB gave Mohd Amir a second chance, they should have done the same with Mohd Asif and Salman Butt. It doesn't make sense to have one rule for Amir and another for Asif and Butt.

The PCB and Pakistan basiclaly shut all doors on Asif, he was smart enough to leave Pakistan for the US where he is pretty much set. He even boasted when asked if he would accept a bowling coach role at the NCA i.e. the PCB will have to compensate me millions of ruppees per week because that is what i am making here in the US, can they afford to?

Salman Butt was smart enough to focus on his career as a tv analyst, youtuber and he now has a Director of Cricket Operations role in Ghani Institute in Lahore, he has steadily established his reputation of being a good cricket analyst with a sound cricket mind and i am sure he is now comfortably settled in life.

 

[160KPH]

My feelings about the entire situation are pretty complicated.

The spot fixing scandal was one of the most embarrassing moments in Pakistani cricket history. It cast the worst possible light on us to the entire world. It is a shameful day that will never be forgotten. I would rather lose every single match in a WC to all minnow teams rather than have something like that ever occur again.

I was supportive of Amir’s return at first because I bought into the narrative of him being a young kid who got caught up in the wrong crowd. But at the same time Amir was 19 years old. That’s far from being a little kid who does not know right from wrong. And not just that but he robbed the world of an incredible talent. It’s an incredibly sad situation.

I can also understand why other players who played for Pakistan feel even worse about the situation than I do. It’s fair for Ramiz to voice his frustration and opinions because as a former cricket player, their actions affected us as a nation but even more so affected people who have represented Pakistan.

As humans we all do terrible things that we regret and I believe all of us are worthy of forgiveness if we truly repent. Amir did his time and the decision was made to allow him to return. Now that he’s returned I’m not sure if it’s fair to always hold it over his head. It would have been perfectly fine if we had denied him the ability to rejoin our team after his return but now that he’s back we can’t always use it to argue against him when we are upset with him. The sad reality is that when history looks back, before any of his accomplishments are ever mentioned in the discussion, the spot fixing scandal will be the first thing mentioned.

 

[160KPH]

I completly agree here.

I also think the reason for why pcb let Amir back in but not asif or salman butt because of amir's defendant lawyers made a good case of it not being solely his fault( again whether he's a victim or not doesn't matter, I'm just stating what the defense lawyers presented)

Whereas butt and asif are always viewed as the perpetrators.

But yeah, I think the English media was pressed about salman butt for a bery good reason.

edit: why is "pressed" bold? Weird Glitch lol

There’s a lot more that went on with the Salman Butt situation as well. At first he claimed the news paper recording on the situation had a bad reputation. Then he said the video may have been edited or manipulated.

He also was of course the Test captain at the time and should clearly have known better. As captain of a team he should be the one helping to ensure the integrity of the whole team, not the one spearheading a fixing operation.

 

[Major]

The thing that's your own personal sentiment, and truth be told I get where you're coming from I really do.

But personal sentiments are one thing and reality is another.

In the real world once you get arrested with a crime and serve your sentence, that crime is on your record forever, but it doesn't prevent you from reapplying which is what Amir did.

If pcb had a problem, they could just say, hey we can't have you back, you have a criminal record. They didn't do that, so you shpuld blame the pcb then for not taking a stand .

It also doesn't change the fact that his spell in the final was a massive massive factor in us winning, nothing on earth will change that sentiment.

As for Indian cricket, them asking the world to ban us from cricket altogether has no value, it reflects their mentality if anything.

Ironically the attack in the Sri lankan cricket team would have a bigger case for it since the country attacked a team and tried to kill them.

Here it's just the actions of 3 individuals, not the whole domestic or international circuit.

There are always some rules that you are not suppose to cross in different settings. In Cricket the red line is fixing, be it match or spot. Once you cross that, the tag will always stay and people like me dont want players with such tags to be coming back.

 

[mominsaigol]

There are always some rules that you are not suppose to cross in different settings. In Cricket the red line is fixing, be it match or spot. Once you cross that, the tag will always stay and people like me dont want players with such tags to be coming back.

That is fair from your POV, but it doesn't change reality as to what occurred in 2017 or the reality of icc only giving a 5 year penalty or the reality of pcb deciding to forgoe said record.

 

[Saj]

I'm not going to defend Amir, but Ramiz has worked with people mentioned in the Qayyum report, had controversies in cricket, but he's never refused to work with them.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

In many classical societies people were rehabilitated but there would be a physical reminder of their crime like a branding that would remind people of what they had done.

Sure, you can rehabilitate Amir; I'm all for it; he deserves to come back, but when he acts up, it is good to remind him that he sold his country and should be put back in his box.

You can't have everything your way in life.

 

[topspin]

Oh Ramiz, if you were my family, I would've disowned you years ago for your garbage takes on air as a commentator. But don't worry, I would've made it "celestial in style".

 

[ExpressPacer]

@Major doing God’s work on this thread. Bringing back entitled criminals has no excuses. I will admit that I too celebrated Amir’s wickets against India and wish he could have a clean slate …but on principle, bringing him back is walking ten steps back even if he’s the reincarnation of Wasim.

 

[Flat_Track_Bully]

This stuff has been going on since the early 90s. It cost us multiple world cups and series.

Amir was 17 at the time, he can be excusable. Butt and Asif not so and that's why they never played for Pakistan again.

 

[Rana]

@Major doing God’s work on this thread. Bringing back entitled criminals has no excuses. I will admit that I too celebrated Amir’s wickets against India and wish he could have a clean slate …but on principle, bringing him back is walking ten steps back even if he’s the reincarnation of Wasim.

Major is only against Amir because he left intentional cricket because of Misbah ul Haq.

 

[kingusama92]

It's hard to disagree with Ramiz's general sentiment.

Ideally, a player like this should have received a lifetime ban from cricket. Rehabilitation and reintegration into society can come through other jobs not just cricket.

After all playing cricket is a privilege not a right, especially at the highest level.

However, now that Amir is already playing around the world it made little sense to keep him out. They need to use him as an asset in the squad and see if they can squeeze out a good performance or two at the WC. He will likely make the XI since Rauf has been brutal recently.

 

[RidiculousMan]

Interesting that Ramiz used the words disinherit and not disown.

Okay so Ramiz did said Disown. Makes more sense

 

[Buffet]

PCB banned Amir for ZERO months. That's the reality.

PCB wanted to play next match in Englnad with fixers.

 

[Buffet]

PCB fought for suspended cricketers​

The PCB had tried to fight the case for the three cricketers accused of spot-fixing, and are unhappy with ICC's 'haste' in suspending them.

The Pakistan Cricket Board had tried to fight the case for the three cricketers accused of spot-fixing, sending a letter to the ICC after the governing body suspended the players four days after the News of the World sting operation.

In his first statement following the suspension of Salman Butt, Mohammad Amir and Mohammad Asif, the PCB chairman Ijaz Butt said: "We wrote a letter to ICC on behalf of the players ....

PCB fought for suspended cricketers

The PCB had tried to fight the case for the three cricketers accused of spot-fixing, and are unhappy with ICC's 'haste' in suspending them

www.espncricinfo.com

 

[Rana]

PCB banned Amir for ZERO months. That's the reality.

PCB wanted to play next match in Englnad with fixers.

Looking back at it, Ijaz Butt and Yawar Saeed were absolute idiots at handling this situation.

Amir was traveling with the ODI team under Afridi, they were going to somehow try their best to slip him through. They desperately needed him for the World Cup in India.

 

[Rana]

Amir broke on the scene in 2009 under Younis Khan. Plenty of senior players like YK, Misbah, Afridi, Razzaq, Umar Gul, Saeed Ajmal to look after him. All genuinely good, respectful cricketers.

Later that year, or early 2010, the guy was a megastar and Pakistan’s biggest asset. He was our young Lionel Messi in Barcelona (the one under Ronaldinho). That’s how big and important he was for Pakistan back then.

I firmly believe that Salman Butt, a decent player (not a superstar by any means) had no power or sway to coerce him into doing things he didn’t want to do. It’s as simple as that. If Amir just once reported any awkward or corrupt advances made my Salman Butt to him, through his agent to either the media or the Pakistan management, who was going to survive this fiasco? Amir or Salman Butt?

Let’s say Amir was blackmailed by Butt to do things, what can he blackmail him for? Dropping Amir from the team? How would Salman Butt justify it? Dropping your best young bowler who is a big draw? There is no power or sway Butt had over Amir to make the choices he made.

Let’s get that clear.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

Well I wonder why Rameez Raja never spoke about Salim Malik or Wasim Akram during his time. It seems like he has some personal rift with Amir nothing more than that.

 

[Buffet]

Looking back at it, Ijaz Butt and Yawar Saeed were absolute idiots at handling this situation.

Amir was traveling with the ODI team under Afridi, they were going to somehow try their best to slip him through. They desperately needed him for the World Cup in India.

It had become a big issue. PCB wanted fixers to play in series, but Eng players did not want to play against them. It was simply idiotic from PCB. Posters talking about suspensiion/ban and PCB probably forget that PCB didn't do anything. In fact, PCB was hell bent on playing fixers even when police was doing thier investigation.

 

[topspin]

Major is only against Amir because he left intentional cricket because of Misbah ul Haq.

Yes, it hurts him because Amir turned his back on Misbah, who went out of his way to bring back to the test side in 2016.

Amir didn't turn his back on Pakistan but rather he turned his back on Misbah, who along with his fans, were left red faced and humiliated.

Losers don't accompany themselves with losers.

 

[topspin]

PCB fought for suspended cricketers​

The PCB had tried to fight the case for the three cricketers accused of spot-fixing, and are unhappy with ICC's 'haste' in suspending them.

The Pakistan Cricket Board had tried to fight the case for the three cricketers accused of spot-fixing, sending a letter to the ICC after the governing body suspended the players four days after the News of the World sting operation.

In his first statement following the suspension of Salman Butt, Mohammad Amir and Mohammad Asif, the PCB chairman Ijaz Butt said: "We wrote a letter to ICC on behalf of the players ....

PCB fought for suspended cricketers

The PCB had tried to fight the case for the three cricketers accused of spot-fixing, and are unhappy with ICC's 'haste' in suspending them

www.espncricinfo.com

Correct. This includes Misbah, who went out of his to get Amir back in the test side in 2016.

 

[topspin]

Amir broke on the scene in 2009 under Younis Khan. Plenty of senior players like YK, Misbah, Afridi, Razzaq, Umar Gul, Saeed Ajmal to look after him. All genuinely good, respectful cricketers.

Later that year, or early 2010, the guy was a megastar and Pakistan’s biggest asset. He was our young Lionel Messi in Barcelona (the one under Ronaldinho). That’s how big and important he was for Pakistan back then.

I firmly believe that Salman Butt, a decent player (not a superstar by any means) had no power or sway to coerce him into doing things he didn’t want to do. It’s as simple as that. If Amir just once reported any awkward or corrupt advances made my Salman Butt to him, through his agent to either the media or the Pakistan management, who was going to survive this fiasco? Amir or Salman Butt?

Let’s say Amir was blackmailed by Butt to do things, what can he blackmail him for? Dropping Amir from the team? How would Salman Butt justify it? Dropping your best young bowler who is a big draw? There is no power or sway Butt had over Amir to make the choices he made.

Let’s get that clear.

Pakistan would've won the 2011 WC with Salman Butt and Amir. The former had a very good cricketing mind, so his captaincy was a massive upgrade on Afridi in this regard.

 

[topspin]

Secondly, I think there comes a point in life where your insistence on some moral high ground, this holier than thou attitude at some point will come back to haunt you…and it will really be a disgraceful moment.

Always fear God, and focus on yourself.

Peace.

The best comment on this thread. It's very easy to act moral on the internet, which is why Major's thread on Imad's smoking was more of a reflection of his judgemental nature than the "sin" he's trying to expose.

As you say, if you're going to judge, be prepared to be tested like those who fell into temptation and if you fall for it, you'll also be disgraced and humiliated for following suit.

 

[Rana]

Pakistan would've won the 2011 WC with Salman Butt and Amir. The former had a very good cricketing mind, so his captaincy was a massive upgrade on Afridi in this regard.

I can’t remember if PCB had plans for SB to lead Pakistan in 2011 but after the World Cup he would have been a great captain indeed. Can’t believe this guy turned out to be such a crook, I would have never guessed he out of all people had taken this path of corruption.

 

[Rana]

The best comment on this thread. It's very easy to act moral on the internet, which is why Major's thread on Imad's smoking was more of a reflection of his judgemental nature than the "sin" he's trying to expose.

As you say, if you're going to judge, be prepared to be tested like those who fell into temptation and if you fall for it, you'll also be disgraced and humiliated for following suit.

When it comes to guys like Ramiz, who have some weightage when they talk, they should just be mindful of some sensitive issues now. We know Amir has done something terrible, it will stay with him forever. We get it.

But just for once be responsible when you are openly, publicly disgracing a guy for a crime he committed and has served his punishment for it. The guy has kids, same as Salman Butt. Young kids who are innocent. They didn’t choose to be born to Salman, Amir etc. what’s the point of just bringing up things in the past and putting it out there so their kids could hear or read this stuff, and just be hurt or traumatised by it? Just let it go man, have an ounce of humanity and sympathy for the man’s family and young children.

It’s not like there is a discussion going on now to bring Amir back from a ban. The guy came back in 2016, what purpose do comments like this serve now?

 

[Major]

nobody cares about anyones opinion here. No matter how much you spend your time whining about which opener and captain plays it will always fall on deaf ears because the captain is still the same.

Point is, everyone around here is giving there opinion. Now instead of taking every disagreement as personal learned to ignore and move on

 

[Major]

In many classical societies people were rehabilitated but there would be a physical reminder of their crime like a branding that would remind people of what they had done.

Sure, you can rehabilitate Amir; I'm all for it; he deserves to come back, but when he acts up, it is good to remind him that he sold his country and should be put back in his box.

You can't have everything your way in life.

Till this day the one image that still bothers me and I wish that picture was never taken was when Amir was declared player of the series after being caught spot fixing. The embarrasment was so much that the guy presenting the Cheque was so frustrated standing there that he handed over the cheque upside down.

It has to be one of the most disgusting pictures of cricket and only because Amir was greedy enough to sell the integrity of the game.

I fully understand Ramiz's sentiments.

 

[Major]

Major is only against Amir because he left intentional cricket because of Misbah ul Haq.

My stance on Amir, Butt and Asif was same from day 1. The moment they were caught i never supported them after that. To me it does not matter what Amir did with Misbah, infact Rameez Raja removed Misbah as coach, yet I agree with the statement he gave in OP.

Every post and thread is not an agenda based, If Imad is discussed, its not because of Babar and same is the case of Amir.

I was against Amir coming back in test cricket, i was against him playing the champions trophy or the world cup.

My point is always that people dont change, and in the long run Amir proved that.

 

[pratiktc]

He did the crime. He served the time. There is no point bringing it up over again.

Should he have played intl cricket for Pak again is debatable but it takes a strong institution to take such a stance and Asian boards (particularly PCB) has always wavered on views from one chairman to the next.

In my personal view, cricketers caught fixing or intending to fix should never be brought back to international level. By all means rehabilitate them during and post and allow them to earn living in domestic/leagues /coaching/educational talks to other players but they should not be considered for national colours.

 

[topspin]

When it comes to guys like Ramiz, who have some weightage when they talk, they should just be mindful of some sensitive issues now. We know Amir has done something terrible, it will stay with him forever. We get it.

But just for once be responsible when you are openly, publicly disgracing a guy for a crime he committed and has served his punishment for it. The guy has kids, same as Salman Butt. Young kids who are innocent. They didn’t choose to be born to Salman, Amir etc. what’s the point of just bringing up things in the past and putting it out there so their kids could hear or read this stuff, and just be hurt or traumatised by it? Just let it go man, have an ounce of humanity and sympathy for the man’s family and young children.

It’s not like there is a discussion going on now to bring Amir back from a ban. The guy came back in 2016, what purpose do comments like this serve now?

Ramiz Raja clearly has a personal issue against Amir because he can’t let it go. I suspect this is because Amir wasn’t in the good books of PCB and Babar Azam when he was PCB Chairman.

As you say, no need to humiliate him anymore. The guy has family now. You’ve made you point, time to give it a rest.

 

[topspin]

My stance on Amir, Butt and Asif was same from day 1.

No it hasn’t. You had no issue when Amir was playing for Misbah because he was the one who went above and beyond to get him back into the Pakistan team in 2016.

When Amir turned his back on Misbah, you claimed he was never wanted by the ex-skipper, which was false.

 

[Major]

No it hasn’t. You had no issue when Amir was playing for Misbah because he was the one who went above and beyond to get him back into the Pakistan team in 2016.

When Amir turned his back on Misbah, you claimed he was never wanted by the ex-skipper, which was false.

My stance again amir has been the same from day 1. I never wanted him to return back.
Posters who have known me here can tell you i was aaginst Amirs return from day 1 and support Hafez and Azhars stance

 

[Shafi]

So lets see, a Banker embezzles money, gets imprisoned and then is hired by the same bank?

It doesn't happen in real life. Should not happen in cricket also.

Yes Amir has our sympathy and forgiveness (if that is even a word!) but to come back to the same team which he disgraced with his criminal conduct is wrong.

Prophet Muhammad SW forgave Abu Sufian who killed HIS beloved uncle and many Muslim but later he was forgiven by our Prophet SW. Is Amir more sinner than Sufian or Ramiz more pious than prophets?

 

[Shafi]

My stance again amir has been the same from day 1. I never wanted him to return back.
Posters who have known me here can tell you i was aaginst Amirs return from day 1 and support Hafez and Azhars stance

If Islam teaches us to forgive people but you disagree with that, than its your problem.

 

[Shafi]

The best comment on this thread. It's very easy to act moral on the internet, which is why Major's thread on Imad's smoking was more of a reflection of his judgemental nature than the "sin" he's trying to expose.

As you say, if you're going to judge, be prepared to be tested like those who fell into temptation and if you fall for it, you'll also be disgraced and humiliated for following suit.

Exactly!!!! When you are harsh on others ALLAH will harsh on you. But most of the people are ignorant and knows nothing about Islam.

 

[mominsaigol]

Prophet Muhammad SW forgave Abu Sufian who killed HIS beloved uncle and many Muslim but later he was forgiven by our Prophet SW. Is Amir more sinner than Sufian or Ramiz more pious than prophets?

Bruh, .

Did you just compare a historically relevant event in the creation of islam to pcb vs Amir .

No one persecuted Amir, he's living a fine life, happily married .

 

[Rana]

Prophet Muhammad SW forgave Abu Sufian who killed HIS beloved uncle and many Muslim but later he was forgiven by our Prophet SW. Is Amir more sinner than Sufian or Ramiz more pious than prophets?

Excellent point

Especially Hindh, her war crime was extremely personal towards the Prophet sa, but she was forgiven too by him.

 

[MenInG]

Excellent point

Especially Hindh, her war crime was extremely personal towards the Prophet sa, but she was forgiven too by him.

Now we are comparing what the Prophet PBUH did with spot fixing?

Do you know the magnitude of the crimes and the historical aspect of those?

May I remind you all about the Sharia based punishment for people who steal and murder?

I suggest we do NOT bring religion into this.

All you can say is that Amir was allowed to play for Pakistan when it suited us. And it suits us again. That is the only defence there is.

 

[Rana]

Now we are comparing what the Prophet PBUH did with spot fixing?

Do you know the magnitude of the crimes and the historical aspect of those?

May I remind you all about the Sharia based punishment for people who steal and murder?

I suggest we do NOT bring religion into this.

All you can say is that Amir was allowed to play for Pakistan when it suited us. And it suits us again. That is the only defence there is.

No we are not

We are comparing the levels of forgiveness we should aspire to.

 

[MenInG]

Prophet Muhammad SW forgave Abu Sufian who killed HIS beloved uncle and many Muslim but later he was forgiven by our Prophet SW. Is Amir more sinner than Sufian or Ramiz more pious than prophets?

Is the Sharia law bigger than all of us?

Should we now get rid of all jails and penalties because of an incorrectly used precedence?

 

[Major]

If Islam teaches us to forgive people but you disagree with that, than its your problem.

In every place there are always the red line.

Islam also has a redline, which is that you cant do shirk. You do shirk, you cant be forgive. You get involved in black magic, you dont get forgiveness.

So stop bringing in Islam whenever you like to suit your argument.

If someone was to get raped in our households, why not forgive the rapist or the killer or the molester? No one does, because in our households, those crimes are the red line.

In Cricket, the redline is fixing, because fixing destroys the credibility of the match

 

[topspin]

Islam also has a redline, which is that you cant do shirk. You do shirk, you cant be forgive. You get involved in black magic, you dont get forgiveness.

This is not true. Please don't spread misinformation when it comes to religion.

According to the Quran, you can be forgiven for any sin as long as you repent. Whether the repentance is accepted or not by Allah (SWT) is a different matter.

 

[mominsaigol]

This is not true. Please don't spread misinformation when it comes to religion.

According to the Quran, you can be forgiven for any sin as long as you repent. Whether the repentance is accepted or not by Allah (SWT) is a different matter.

I think murder(Depending on circumstances) and disbelief in god are the only 2 unforgivable sins.

But for murder it has to be the case of you willingly committing it. If someone forces you to with a gun on your head or if its self defence then its a different case obviously.

 

[mominsaigol]

In every place there are always the red line.

Islam also has a redline, which is that you cant do shirk. You do shirk, you cant be forgive. You get involved in black magic, you dont get forgiveness.

So stop bringing in Islam whenever you like to suit your argument.

If someone was to get raped in our households, why not forgive the rapist or the killer or the molester? No one does, because in our households, those crimes are the red line.

In Cricket, the redline is fixing, because fixing destroys the credibility of the match

Bro fixing and shirk aren't comprable.

Like red line in cricket and red line in Islam. Its a massive massive gap.

 

[Savak]

Amir should retort that Ramiz should reimburse the PCB for the financial damage he caused with his PJL venture i.e. around Rs 4 billion and then talk.

 

[BouncerGuy]

A guy who was convicted of a crime has served his punishment. What he did is not right by any means and he paid for his wrongdoings, but WHat Ramiz is saying is very Harsh. If you are not willing to forgive anybody, that is your personal choice. Whatever Amir did has nothing to do anything personal with any individual.

He is back in the team now and should be treated fairly. Yes, he did the worst thing that as a Pakistan team fan, cannot be forgotten and never will be. Amir will always be remembered for that scandal. You can disown him but don't expect the whole world to do the same what you are doing. Everyone has a personal opinion. Respect that.

 

[mominsaigol]

I highly doubt ramiz would have disowned his son. Weird statement to claim.

No parents is capable of even doing that under normal circumstances. If this was ramiz's son he'd be the first person defending and would be highlighting ct 2017 over the moon.

 

[Major]

This is not true. Please don't spread misinformation when it comes to religion.

According to the Quran, you can be forgiven for any sin as long as you repent. Whether the repentance is accepted or not by Allah (SWT) is a different matter.

i think you need to reread Islam.

Black Magic comes under Shirk, there is no forgiveness for Shirk.

You will divulge into unneccesarry arguments just for the sake of Amir.

 

[Major]

Bro fixing and shirk aren't comprable.

Like red line in cricket and red line in Islam. Its a massive massive gap.

Where did I make a comparison? Comparison posts are different.

I explained the Red line for each subject and society. Religion has its own red line, your family has its own red line. A sport also has its own red line.

For Example, if Islam can forgive a person for murder ( if blood money is given ), doesnt mean that a family will still forgive, because for a family, killing his/her child is the red line for that person.

 

[BouncerGuy]

I think maybe we should be talking about amir and ramiz here rather than ISLAM and Shirk stuff. Not the right thread for that talk.