Has Pakistan finally lost the Kashmir Cause?

[uppercut]

You asked who is the bigger recipient of foreign money between India and Pakistan. It is India, you can split hairs, shift the goal posts, or cry a river, switch to China - the answer will still remain India.

Let us know when India will retake Kashmir from Pakistan. The fantastic tea will be brewing.

Nope I asked which country received aid. For your viewing pleasure I have suitably highlighted the keyword in my post below so that you don't "accidentally" miss it. You want to dig further and deeper ?

Which country is the recipient of most US monetary and military aid since 1947 ? Is it India or Pakistan ?

 

[Technics 1210]

Nope I asked which country received aid. For your viewing pleasure I have suitably highlighted the keyword in my post below so that you don't "accidentally" miss it. You want to dig further and deeper ?

Stop lying.

Here is your question:

So when was the last time India received foreign money and the amount?

Your own question is in English.

Now go try and dupe elsewhere.

Have a nice weekend.

 

[uppercut]

Stop lying.

Here is your question:



Your own question is in English.

Now go try and dupe elsewhere.

Have a nice weekend.

The first question that I asked clearly mentions aid ... you subsequently tried to shift the goalpost to FDI. So feel free to respond to post# 161. Something tells me you ain't going to touch that with a Ten foot pole.

 

[Technics 1210]

The first question that I asked clearly mentions aid ... you subsequently tried to shift the goalpost to FDI. So feel free to respond to post# 161. Something tells me you ain't going to touch that with a Ten foot pole.

It also mentions US monetary, and you got the answer too.

If you weren't copying and pasting from Google you'd have saved yourself from embarrassment.

Though one thing is for sure, India ain't touching, let alone retaking Kashmir.

Modi could do better begging the UN next time he flies on a world tour.

 

[Technics 1210]

Top recipient of foreign AID - India

https://www.wristband.com/content/which-countries-provide-receive-most-foreign-aid/

Top 10 Recipients of Foreign Aid From DAC Members

India: $4.21 billion
Turkey: $4.10 billion
Afghanistan: $2.95 billion
Syria: $2.77 billion
Ethiopia: $1.94 billion
Bangladesh: $1.81 billion
Morocco: $1.74 billion
Vietnam: $1.61 billion
Iraq: $1.60 billion
Indonesia: $1.48 billion

I though I save the best till last. )

 

[Local.Dada]

Top recipient of foreign AID - India

https://www.wristband.com/content/which-countries-provide-receive-most-foreign-aid/

Top 10 Recipients of Foreign Aid From DAC Members

India: $4.21 billion
Turkey: $4.10 billion
Afghanistan: $2.95 billion
Syria: $2.77 billion
Ethiopia: $1.94 billion
Bangladesh: $1.81 billion
Morocco: $1.74 billion
Vietnam: $1.61 billion
Iraq: $1.60 billion
Indonesia: $1.48 billion

I though I save the best till last. )

I will do you better than wristband. Com )

Here is world bank data on Indian economy size. That amounts to 3 trillion by the way so read through all parameters carefully.

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.CD?most_recent_value_desc=true

India has a forex reserves of nearly 600 billion

Here is data from cia.gov

https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factb...-foreign-exchange-and-gold/country-comparison

You can find all this data from other sources too by the power of simple Google search.

So even if whatever data you provided were true don’t know what exactly it proves.

In fact you know it proves failure to understand basic concepts of finance, economics, trade, comprehension skills, basic aptitude of presenting counters in a debate. You tick all the boxes so hatsoff.

 

[Technics 1210]

Deflection has commenced.

Still going about the size of the economy etc and foreign reserves, sharam karo, nothing to do with the fact India is the top recipient of foreign aid between 2017 - 2022.

India is not coming close to Kashmir for 100 years at least.

 

[uppercut]

Deflection has commenced.

Still going about the size of the economy etc and foreign reserves, sharam karo, nothing to do with the fact India is the top recipient of foreign aid between 2017 - 2022.

India is not coming close to Kashmir for 100 years at least.

What the fudge! India is a net donor not receiver of foreign aid these days. Just within the last year or so we helped Sri Lanka during their financial crisis to the tune of $3.5 billion. India is also one of the top contributors to the IMF fund that Pakistan is trying to woo. Get help!

 

[Technics 1210]

It is very clear the incumbent Indian government has been spewing lies to its people, and we are witnessing their reaction at the truth.

Makes complete sense that the biggest vocals in support of India, are living outside of India.

 

[Local.Dada]

What the fudge! India is a net donor not receiver of foreign aid these days. Just within the last year or so we helped Sri Lanka during their financial crisis to the tune of $3.5 billion. India is also one of the top contributors to the IMF fund that Pakistan is trying to woo. Get help!

I also don’t get how his first point is related to the 2nd

India receives aid as per wristband.com so they can’t take Kashmir for a 100 years?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Even though whatever gibberish you are spouting has nothing to do with the topic of the thread, to put in context the earliest migrants from subcontinent to Britain etc where due to either skilled labor brought in more or less against their will or where stooges of British Raj who helped fight against their own people. Hardly any pride in that.

Sure if you are talking about later day migrants from Asia who contribute to British economy regardless of the circumstances of their migration that’s a different matter but hardly anything in there to take pride in British Raj. That’s more to do with the culture of work ethic they develop in their own countries.

One must have some serious identity crisis to spout some of the stuff you say. I’ll leave it at that.

It seems some nerves have been struck, but that was not the intention. Compliance with the British Raj has given many benefits to the Indian subcontinent down the centuries, not least of which is the English language itself, something which has seen the more prideful nations of the world lose out in the age of global inter-connectedness. This has also seen certain more pliant communities of the subcontinent integrate better wherever they land abroad, be it the Americas, the middle east or Europe. What we call today integration. I'm not sure why that is causing such a backlash.

 

[Local.Dada]

It seems some nerves have been struck, but that was not the intention. Compliance with the British Raj has given many benefits to the Indian subcontinent down the centuries, not least of which is the English language itself, something which has seen the more prideful nations of the world lose out in the age of global inter-connectedness. This has also seen certain more pliant communities of the subcontinent integrate better wherever they land abroad, be it the Americas, the middle east or Europe. What we call today integration. I'm not sure why that is causing such a backlash.

I have no clue what you are trying to say here but sure I do understand from your posts why you may have a problem with integration and inter-connectedness. That much we all understand.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I have no clue what you are trying to say here but sure I do understand from your posts why you may have a problem with integration and inter-connectedness. That much we all understand.

Please explain what you don't understand.

 

[uppercut]

I also don’t get how his first point is related to the 2nd

India receives aid as per wristband.com so they can’t take Kashmir for a 100 years?

Victim mentality of the high-school level kind is what leads to these sort of shocking discussions. I mean in 2023 who talks like this: "Country X is scared of Country Y where both X and Y have Nuclear weapons".

 

[RajBan]

Pakistan should never give up claim on Kashmir Banega Pakistan. Keeping aside budget for Islamabad, Lahore and Pindi, they need to commit as much economic resources as possible to army , ISI, militant groups on their eastern border so that they can ensure Kashmir cause is not lost.

India needs to ensure that they maintain stability at their borders , stop unnecessary jingoism and deviate as much resources as possible for education, health care, infrastructure, employment for its people including Kashmir.

 

[Mesozoic]

India is not coming close to Kashmir for 100 years at least.

Bruh the entire Kashmir Valley lies within India. What world are you living in?

 

[Mamoon]

Pakistan never had any claim to Jammu & Kashmir. It is a strategic lie sold to the gullible and ignorant public for power dynamics.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Pakistan never had any claim to Jammu & Kashmir. It is a strategic lie sold to the gullible and ignorant public for power dynamics.

So why has India allowed it's territory - according to you - to remain part of Pakistan?

 

[Technics 1210]

When India has nuclear weapons, and Pakistan did not, India still could not retake Kashmir.

Let this sink in.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Make your mind up joshilabhai. A year or so ago you told me its just a matter of time and India will take back all of Kashmir. Now you're harping about economy.

Default of not, Pak will continue to occupy near half of Kashmir from a neighbour which is 5 x bigger and 7 x bigger in population. Not embarrased?

Andhbhakhts think it is so easy to take back remaining Kashmir from Pakistan and China. At the moment they are denying that India is not interested in full Kashmir but they were in 'joshila' mode when the following article was published last year.

On Shyama Prasad Mukherjee's Anniversary, BJP Says Next Mission Is To Take Back Aksai Chin, PoK

Senior BJP leader and former Deputy Chief Minister Kavinder Gupta said the BJP government is committed to bringing back the entire area of J&K state which was acceded to India in October 1947.

Commemorating the death anniversary of Dr Shyama Prasad Mukherjee, senior BJP leader and former Deputy Chief Minister Kavinder Gupta on Friday said the next mission of the BJP government led by Prime Minister Narendra Modi is to liberate Pakistan-occupied Kashmir (PoK). Gupta described the abrogation of Article 370 as the first mission of the BJP government, which the government has fulfilled.

https://www.outlookindia.com/nation...on-is-to-take-back-aksai-chin-pok-news-204484

 

[daytrader]

India arms Hindu village militias to combat Kashmir rebels

Brandishing a bolt-action rifle, civil servant Sanjeet Kumar is one of 5,000 Kashmir villagers who have joined all-Hindu militia units armed and trained by Indian forces to fight off rebel attacks.

India has more than half a million soldiers permanently stationed in the parts of Muslim-majority Kashmir it controls, as the Hindu nationalist government presses a bid to crush a decades-long insurgency.

Authorities announced the new militias last year, and a deadly rebel assault in Kumar's frontier village in January prompted him to sign up.

"We were totally terrorised by the attack," the 32-year-old municipal worker in the electricity department told AFP.

Wearing a saffron-coloured tilak on his forehead to mark himself as a member of the Hindu faithful, Kumar said he was ready and able to defend his home.

"Anyone who turns a traitor to our nation is my target," he told AFP.

- 'Only one community' -

Kashmir has been disputed between India and Pakistan since both countries achieved independence 75 years ago. Both sides claim the territory in full.

India has fought against rebel groups demanding the territory's independence, or merger with Pakistan, in an insurgency that has claimed tens of thousands of lives.

The new militia units, known as Village Defence Guards, were unveiled last year in the wake of a string of murders targeting police officers and Hindu residents of Kashmir.

The scheme has been broadly popular among the region's Hindu residents but Muslim villagers are concerned the militia will only exacerbate Kashmir's woes.

"My worry is about the way weapons are now being distributed among only one community," said one elderly Muslim living in Dhangri, who asked not to be named.

"Now weapons are being brandished around by young ones. This is not good for any one of us," he told AFP. "I sense a growing tension."

- 'I will fight back' -

Many residents of Dhangri, the remote hamlet where Kumar lives, are still grief-stricken by the attack that claimed the lives of seven of their neighbours, which police blamed on Pakistan-based militants.

...
https://news.yahoo.com/india-arms-hindu-village-militias-031134940.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall

 

[daytrader]

Election trouble for the BJP and the blame Pakistan rhetoric is back up

***********
Encounter Breaks Out In Jammu And Kashmir's Anantnag
Indian Army troops yesterday foiled an infiltration bid in the Uri sector, forcing a quadcopter flown by Pakistan to withdraw, sources told ANI.

Anantnag: An encounter broke out in the Andwan Sagam area of Jammu and Kashmir's Anantnag, the police said on Sunday morning. Jammu and Kashmir Police and security forces are on the job.

"#Encounter has started at Andwan Sagam area of #Anantnag. Police and security forces are on the job," Kashmir Zone Police tweeted.

Further details are awaited.

In the early hours on Saturday, Indian Army troops foiled an infiltration bid in the Uri sector of Jammu and Kashmir, forcing the quadcopter flown by Pakistan to withdraw, an Army source told ANI.

As per the source, there was an exchange of fire between terrorists and Indian Army troops.

"An infiltration bid by terrorists was foiled in the Uri sector of Jammu and Kashmir, early morning today. There was an exchange of fire between terrorists and their own troops. Pakistan side tried to fly a quadcopter over the incident site but on being fired at by the Indian side it quickly withdrew," the source said yesterday.

NDTV

 

[daytrader]

G-20 moot in Srinagar: Bilawal to visit AJK to plead Kashmiris’ case
Bilawal to meet Kashmiri representatives, address fora, show solidarity, and highlight Pakistan's efforts against India's actions

Chairman PPP and Foreign Minister Bilawal Bhutto Zardari will pay a three-day visit to Azad Jammu and Kashmir (AJK) on May 21 in a bid to record protest in response to the G-20 conference scheduled to be held in the Indian Illegally Occupied Jammu and Kashmir (IIOJK).

Bilawal will meet the Kashmiri representatives, address different fora, express solidarity with the Kashmiri people and highlight Pakistan’s stance and efforts to apprise the international community of India’s reprehensible and nefarious designs.

The decision was taken during a meeting between Bilawal Bhutto Zardari with a delegation of PPP Azad Kashmir leaders that called on him here on Tuesday.

The News PK

 

[DRsohail]

Why would IOK people want to go with a country being ruled by crooks and is on the verge of default? no way. and India do not need us.

 

[Hitman]

Why would IOK people want to go with a country being ruled by crooks and is on the verge of default? no way. and India do not need us.

I believe most Kashmiris from Indian side want to form an independent state, not to merge with Pakistan. Isn't it?

 

[DRsohail]

I believe most Kashmiris from Indian side want to form an independent state, not to merge with Pakistan. Isn't it?

They would not want an indepednt state too, But going with Pakistan will be a suicide, Who will go with a country on the verge of default, govern by army and crooks, with 24/7 human right violations.

 

[Hitman]

They would not want an indepednt state too, But going with Pakistan will be a suicide, Who will go with a country on the verge of default, govern by army and crooks, with 24/7 human right violations.

There are people who rely on emotions while making decisions. But you are right, who in their right mind would want to set foot on a sinking ship.

 

[DRsohail]

There are people who rely on emotions while making decisions. But you are right, who in their right mind would want to set foot on a sinking ship.

Yes, Even I will like Not to go with such a country, Pak has no legitimacy to calim such thing.

 

[Kriketer]

Mumbai attacks.

Pakistan was involved, and India retaliated by cutting all ties with Pakistan. Which is understandable if a nation cares about its people. India says that Pakistan needs to stop funding and training terrorist who are brainwashed as mujahideen fighting for kashmir.

Meanwhile, we had aps attacks and the PM allowed Ehsanullah Ehsan go scot free.

Funny how you have simply accepted that junk played in Indian media and blaming Pakistan for it, while completely disregarding all the cross bordered terrorism and thousands of innocent that have lost their lives due to planning and funding of terrorism in Pakistan by India. Ofcourse I expect you to completely disregard it and seeing how your types continue supporting leeches in the government, I am not surprised by your take on this.

I am though surprised you would even bother playing so innocent that Pakistan should just bend over backwards for better relationship with a government who only came to power by spreading hatred against Pakistan and Muslims in its speeches. Ofcourse having peaceful and better relationship will only do good for both, and we Pakistanis do want it but that will only happen when their fascist government is out of the way and they take their army rule away in IOK (I am sure you are aware of all the UN reports on inhumane treatment of civilians for decades in IOK by Indian army).

Imran Khan, the person you dislike so much has constantly mentioned at having better healtheri relationships with India, only if they stop electing leaders who only spread hate and propaganda against Pakistan. BJP won't even be in power for long if they played jolly dolly with Pakistan. Why do you think there is so much hate against Pakistan and Muslims among Indians which you see all over social media, movies, their news in past 7-8 years? It's the constant propaganda machine that is being run by their current fascist government.

As for economy, if IK was still the leader then country would be much better off. He was the only one who would have slowly sabotaged army establishment rule in Pakistan which would have immensely benefited Pakistan, but as long as we have fans who support corrupt leeches mafia like yourself in our country, don't expect things to get better just by bending over for a facist neighbouring government.

 

[Kriketer]

Why would IOK people want to go with a country being ruled by crooks and is on the verge of default? no way. and India do not need us.

Why would they need anyone? They got 1.5 billion consumer market and they weren't dragged into illegal wars like Pakistan. I don't understand how people even do comparison by completely disregarding facts. Pakistan does have it's own corrupt to core political families to blame who have treated Pakistan like their baap ke jageer hence cluster of illegal wars and deeply power hungry corrupt politicians have constantly severely hampered Pakistan. Corrupt politicans have allowed/fed corrupt army heads for decades hence this vicious circle has only gotten worse.

No country needs another to survive if they are stable, definitely not a country with fifth largest population of the world like Pakistan. But yes having good relationship with neighbours and other countries is much better way forward for all as peace will only benefit us all and leaders from both sides should work towards it instead of spreading ill. Poverty, femine and hunger are real enemies of sub continent, not who control what landscapes.

 

[Major]

Funny how you have simply accepted that junk played in Indian media and blaming Pakistan for it, while completely disregarding all the cross bordered terrorism and thousands of innocent that have lost their lives due to planning and funding of terrorism in Pakistan by India. Ofcourse I expect you to completely disregard it and seeing how your types continue supporting leeches in the government, I am not surprised by your take on this.

I am though surprised you would even bother playing so innocent that Pakistan should just bend over backwards for better relationship with a government who only came to power by spreading hatred against Pakistan and Muslims in its speeches. Ofcourse having peaceful and better relationship will only do good for both, and we Pakistanis do want it but that will only happen when their fascist government is out of the way and they take their army rule away in IOK (I am sure you are aware of all the UN reports on inhumane treatment of civilians for decades in IOK by Indian army).

Imran Khan, the person you dislike so much has constantly mentioned at having better healtheri relationships with India, only if they stop electing leaders who only spread hate and propaganda against Pakistan. BJP won't even be in power for long if they played jolly dolly with Pakistan. Why do you think there is so much hate against Pakistan and Muslims among Indians which you see all over social media, movies, their news in past 7-8 years? It's the constant propaganda machine that is being run by their current fascist government.

As for economy, if IK was still the leader then country would be much better off. He was the only one who would have slowly sabotaged army establishment rule in Pakistan which would have immensely benefited Pakistan, but as long as we have fans who support corrupt leeches mafia like yourself in our country, don't expect things to get better just by bending over for a facist neighbouring government.

Its not Indian propaganda, its the hard truth.

Funny how your post started about disagreeing with me to having issues with who i vote for while not supporting who you vote.

Pakistan was involved in Mumbai attacks. Many of the govt people have admitted this, even Imran Khan admitted this indirectly when he lashed out at Nawaz for revealing Ajmal Kasb's location and even Sheikh Rashed aswell admitted this.

Mumbai attacks took place, and we were involved. And after getting caught with our pants down, the least the govt could had done was assisted India in capturing the terrorist. Guys like Hafiz Saeed get police protection when they have rallies go by in Islamabad.

Anyways, this isnt an IK thread, and plz saying that IK as leader would be better for the country even with no economic policy or strategy is a very naïve statement and shows your lack of knowledge regarding how economics work

 

[Major]

Why would they need anyone? They got 1.5 billion consumer market and they weren't dragged into illegal wars like Pakistan. I don't understand how people even do comparison by completely disregarding facts. Pakistan does have it's own corrupt to core political families to blame who have treated Pakistan like their baap ke jageer hence cluster of illegal wars and deeply power hungry corrupt politicians have constantly severely hampered Pakistan. Corrupt politicans have allowed/fed corrupt army heads for decades hence this vicious circle has only gotten worse.

No country needs another to survive if they are stable, definitely not a country with fifth largest population of the world like Pakistan. But yes having good relationship with neighbours and other countries is much better way forward for all as peace will only benefit us all and leaders from both sides should work towards it instead of spreading ill. Poverty, femine and hunger are real enemies of sub continent, not who control what landscapes.

This I agree with

 

[Kriketer]

Its not Indian propaganda, its the hard truth.

Funny how your post started about disagreeing with me to having issues with who i vote for while not supporting who you vote.

Pakistan was involved in Mumbai attacks. Many of the govt people have admitted this, even Imran Khan admitted this indirectly when he lashed out at Nawaz for revealing Ajmal Kasb's location and even Sheikh Rashed aswell admitted this.

Mumbai attacks took place, and we were involved. And after getting caught with our pants down, the least the govt could had done was assisted India in capturing the terrorist. Guys like Hafiz Saeed get police protection when they have rallies go by in Islamabad.

Anyways, this isnt an IK thread, and plz saying that IK as leader would be better for the country even with no economic policy or strategy is a very naïve statement and shows your lack of knowledge regarding how economics work

Economic indicators are all there during IK tenure and during your beloved current government of clowns running a circus in the name of government and economics. One honestly should atleast feel embarrassed before even mentioning the word "economics" in comparison to IK which were mostly satisfactory despite uphil challenges of covid, inflation and best of all had nation's trust unlike the current clowns sh** show

You have completely disregarded addressing issue of India involvement with terrorism in Pakistan and thousands losing their lives over it. Picking and choosing sides and events to cater to your thread subject wouldn't make your argument any more valid. Pakistan cannot bend over backwards which you prefer if India continues it's facism against Pakistan, and yes they do that to all extent as mentioned in my earlier post.

 

[Major]

Economic indicators are all there during IK tenure and during your beloved current government of clowns running a circus in the name of government and economics. One honestly should atleast feel embarrassed before even mentioning the word "economics" in comparison to IK which were mostly satisfactory despite uphil challenges of covid, inflation and best of all had nation's trust unlike the current clowns sh** show

You have completely disregarded addressing issue of India involvement with terrorism in Pakistan and thousands losing their lives over it. Picking and choosing sides and events to cater to your thread subject wouldn't make your argument any more valid. Pakistan cannot bend over backwards which you prefer if India continues it's facism against Pakistan, and yes they do that to all extent as mentioned in my earlier post.

Dont stand behind covid excuse plz, anyways this isnt an imran thread or an economics thread. Imran's economic policy is non existent.

You took offence that why I admit we did Mumbai attacks. You can whine about India involvement, but the thing is, Mumbai attacks was different compared to any alleged Indian attack on Pakistan.

First it was an Urban city attacked, second they caught a terrorist alive who spilled the beans. Pakistan never has been able to catch an Indian terrorist. A spy is something else. Plus, Indian terrorist (if they exist) failed to do attacks on Urban cities of Pakistan and India never sends an Indian terrorist if they are involved. They outsource it to people belonging to other nationalities.

Point is we were caught with our pants down, and there was no hiding.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Funny how you have simply accepted that junk played in Indian media and blaming Pakistan for it, while completely disregarding all the cross bordered terrorism and thousands of innocent that have lost their lives due to planning and funding of terrorism in Pakistan by India. Ofcourse I expect you to completely disregard it and seeing how your types continue supporting leeches in the government, I am not surprised by your take on this.

I am though surprised you would even bother playing so innocent that Pakistan should just bend over backwards for better relationship with a government who only came to power by spreading hatred against Pakistan and Muslims in its speeches. Ofcourse having peaceful and better relationship will only do good for both, and we Pakistanis do want it but that will only happen when their fascist government is out of the way and they take their army rule away in IOK (I am sure you are aware of all the UN reports on inhumane treatment of civilians for decades in IOK by Indian army).

Imran Khan, the person you dislike so much has constantly mentioned at having better healtheri relationships with India, only if they stop electing leaders who only spread hate and propaganda against Pakistan. BJP won't even be in power for long if they played jolly dolly with Pakistan. Why do you think there is so much hate against Pakistan and Muslims among Indians which you see all over social media, movies, their news in past 7-8 years? It's the constant propaganda machine that is being run by their current fascist government.

As for economy, if IK was still the leader then country would be much better off. He was the only one who would have slowly sabotaged army establishment rule in Pakistan which would have immensely benefited Pakistan, but as long as we have fans who support corrupt leeches mafia like yourself in our country, don't expect things to get better just by bending over for a facist neighbouring government.

I don't think most people in India care what Pakistan thinks about the Indian government. You or pakistani leaders can keep whining about it, its not bothering anyone. Indians will elect whosoever they want and if pakistanis don't like that, well your problem.

J and K is an integral part of India and it will remain so.

So if you believe that, Indians need to elect a government that pakistanis like and hand over J and K to have peaceful relationship, well that peace can go to hell.

As you can see, Indian isn't affected much with these downgrade of relationship.

 

[JaDed]

Why would they need anyone? They got 1.5 billion consumer market and they weren't dragged into illegal wars like Pakistan. I don't understand how people even do comparison by completely disregarding facts. Pakistan does have it's own corrupt to core political families to blame who have treated Pakistan like their baap ke jageer hence cluster of illegal wars and deeply power hungry corrupt politicians have constantly severely hampered Pakistan. Corrupt politicans have allowed/fed corrupt army heads for decades hence this vicious circle has only gotten worse.

No country needs another to survive if they are stable, definitely not a country with fifth largest population of the world like Pakistan. But yes having good relationship with neighbours and other countries is much better way forward for all as peace will only benefit us all and leaders from both sides should work towards it instead of spreading ill. Poverty, femine and hunger are real enemies of sub continent, not who control what landscapes.

Dragged into wars? Your establishment has dragged Pakistan into wars not any external force, please go check the wealth generated by your generals and their kin during these wars.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Pakistan has lost every single war with India.

Pakistan is so far behind India in every area be it economy, technology, democracy, foreign relationships, sports, etc.

Pakistan cannot win any conflict with India. So, it is a better option to work towards building better relationships with India. Pakistan can hardly manage the provinces it has, how will it manage Kashmir?

 

[Champ_Pal]

What India can give to Kashmir in terms of Jobs and Development, Pakistan can never give it. It makes more sense for Kashmiris to stay with India. Pakistan has been in constant turmoil since its inception and its economy has been on the brink for over 2 decades now.
Pakistan must concentrate on the land they have. Kashmir will never progress under their rule.

 

[Kriketer]

I don't think most people in India care what Pakistan thinks about the Indian government. You or pakistani leaders can keep whining about it, its not bothering anyone. Indians will elect whosoever they want and if pakistanis don't like that, well your problem.

J and K is an integral part of India and it will remain so.

So if you believe that, Indians need to elect a government that pakistanis like and hand over J and K to have peaceful relationship, well that peace can go to hell.

As you can see, Indian isn't affected much with these downgrade of relationship.

Not surprised by your response as I don't expect a bhakt to process it. My comment was on general hatred that your government keeps feeding you about Pakistan and Muslim. We never had a government who constantly spoke ill about another religion or who made it into office by constant India propaganda unlike your illeterats in BJP.

With similar token India needs to forget about integral parts of Pakistan like Azad Kashmir and Baltistan which their BJP leaders keep fooling their nationalist facist bhakts with. Abhinandan tried it and was humiliated at world's stage hence India never dared to venture back into Pakistan since then.

Stop living in delusions, you are a third world poverty filled country with severe population and hunger crisis so not sure what that would gain for Pakistan in the long run from a country which is struggling itself to meet bottom of the barrel standards of living for the masses.

My comment is in general peace terms, having peace in between neighbors and not spreading hate about them by a constant propaganda machine in form of a government is a good way to go about it. Don't he fooled, no one is begging here for good relationships...BJP and it's bhakt fans can equally go to hell if all they do is hate. Spending your lifetime hating another religion and country which is visible all over social media among your countrymen is a pathetic way to live your life, hence my comment was to grow common sense and work towards peace instead of pieces all the time. And I say this despite India's constant terrorism in Pakistan for decades.

 

[Kriketer]

Pakistan has lost every single war with India.

Pakistan is so far behind India in every area be it economy, technology, democracy, foreign relationships, sports, etc.

Pakistan cannot win any conflict with India. So, it is a better option to work towards building better relationships with India. Pakistan can hardly manage the provinces it has, how will it manage Kashmir?

Only in Indian books India has won all four wars. Losing Azad Kashmir in 48, going back in countless coffins from Lahore in 65, begging US to be rescued in Kargil etc are all examples of how war is "not won". If they had any guts the way you describe their strength then they would have responded to Abhinandan humiliation a while back, they didn't because they couldn't.

As for progress yes India is a massive populated country without being dragged into illegal wars and to an extent hasn't had as incompetent corrupt to core leaders like Pakistan so that has helped them. But looking at their size why so many obsessed Indians even bother comparing themselves to much smaller country like Pakistan is rather comical. Compare yourself to China, a similar sized country. I bet they never would because they know they are light years behind China when it comes to economy, technology, development, infrastructure, he** even basic hunger and cleanliness are far behind.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Only in Indian books India has won all four wars. Losing Azad Kashmir in 48, going back in countless coffins from Lahore in 65, begging US to be rescued in Kargil etc are all examples of how war is "not won". If they had any guts the way you describe their strength then they would have responded to Abhinandan humiliation a while back, they didn't because they couldn't.

As for progress yes India is a massive populated country without being dragged into illegal wars and to an extent hasn't had as incompetent corrupt to core leaders like Pakistan so that has helped them. But looking at their size why so many obsessed Indians even bother comparing themselves to much smaller country like Pakistan is rather comical. Compare yourself to China, a similar sized country. I bet they never would because they know they are light years behind China when it comes to economy, technology, development, infrastructure, he** even basic hunger and cleanliness are far behind.

Still believing the propaganda they taught you in Pakistani schools? LOL

93,000 Pakistani soldiers surrendered to India in 1971. Musharraf messed up Kargil badly and Nawaz had to step in to save Pakistan from further humiliation.

India does not compete with Pakistan. Their competition is China. It is a Pakistani delusion that Pakistan poses any challenge to India.

 

[Kriketer]

Still believing the propaganda they taught you in Pakistani schools? LOL

93,000 Pakistani soldiers surrendered to India in 1971. Musharraf messed up Kargil badly and Nawaz had to step in to save Pakistan from further humiliation.

India does not compete with Pakistan. Their competition is China. It is a Pakistani delusion that Pakistan poses any challenge to India.

Did I mention 71? Ofcourse we didn't consider it a win, but others we sure did. You got carried away there so perhaps better reading skills will help before posting. And funny how you say India competes with China, a country which is light years ahead of India. O is that also the reason why we see Indians all over social media, Pak passion, their government, their media, their movies etc constantly mentioning "China" or "Pakistan"? We all know the answer to that obsession

 

[RexRex]

Only in Indian books India has won all four wars. Losing Azad Kashmir in 48, going back in countless coffins from Lahore in 65, begging US to be rescued in Kargil etc are all examples of how war is "not won". If they had any guts the way you describe their strength then they would have responded to Abhinandan humiliation a while back, they didn't because they couldn't.

As for progress yes India is a massive populated country without being dragged into illegal wars and to an extent hasn't had as incompetent corrupt to core leaders like Pakistan so that has helped them. But looking at their size why so many obsessed Indians even bother comparing themselves to much smaller country like Pakistan is rather comical. Compare yourself to China, a similar sized country. I bet they never would because they know they are light years behind China when it comes to economy, technology, development, infrastructure, he** even basic hunger and cleanliness are far behind.

Let go of the bravado.

At this point, you should be hoping Pakistan submits a petition to the Indian union to accept it as its 30th state. This seems like the only way out of this quagmire for Pakistan which has lost all control of its economy, law and order. But that would reuire a dose of humility which I don't see in your post.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

This should not be a priority for any Pakistani right now. Pakistan should look to survive first. The way its looking, even civil war and a prolonged period of hyperinflation could be around the corner.

Countries like Yugoslavia have even broken up when such crises worsened. Now is not the time to play realpolitik and look to expand. It will be a disaster.

 

[Major]

Only in Indian books India has won all four wars. Losing Azad Kashmir in 48, going back in countless coffins from Lahore in 65, begging US to be rescued in Kargil etc are all examples of how war is "not won". If they had any guts the way you describe their strength then they would have responded to Abhinandan humiliation a while back, they didn't because they couldn't.

As for progress yes India is a massive populated country without being dragged into illegal wars and to an extent hasn't had as incompetent corrupt to core leaders like Pakistan so that has helped them. But looking at their size why so many obsessed Indians even bother comparing themselves to much smaller country like Pakistan is rather comical. Compare yourself to China, a similar sized country. I bet they never would because they know they are light years behind China when it comes to economy, technology, development, infrastructure, he** even basic hunger and cleanliness are far behind.

You are digging youraelf a hole.

Pakistan never won a war against india. The kashmir we got was never cause of pak army but it was due to the tribal folks own determination.

You really need to stop, its ironic how you say stop watching bollywood movies or mock others about their history when your yourself dont know your own country's correct history

 

[Kriketer]

What an immature post.

Immaturity is when you are stuck on your own rhetorics and Indian version of history books. I bet you also believe those terrorists went on a boat to Mumbai and just casually crossed the Indian Navy and other nonsense they gave as facts. Regardless terrorism has happened in both countries, Pakistan has been severely impacted and funny how you are trying to play the card of India financing and supporting terrorism in Pakistan which has killed thousands of innocent civilians is not the same... Waah some great logic there!

And I see how you completely disregarded Indian terrorism in IOK for the past 75 years, just because you along with Bhakts here are high on usual "mera bharat mahan" anthem. Just because Pakistan is going through tough times because of clowns you support doesn't mean you have to appease them. I have no problem accepting peace should be the ultimate goal and we all definitely should be working towards it but don't simply bend over backwards to consider their side an angelic and us demons. This is the mindset which has polluted neighbors mind and we see them running their mouth with deep hatred against Pakistan all over social media.

 

[Technics 1210]

Any time India has had to defend, attack, seek independence - India has lost land.

Facts do not care about feelings.

 

[Devadwal]

Any time India has had to defend, attack, seek independence - India has lost land.

Facts do not care about feelings.

Yes india lost east Pakistan

 

[Technics 1210]

Yes india lost east Pakistan

Yes India did, when it was fighting for independence against the British, 1947. What happened after doesn't change the fact India was carved into 3.

 

[Devadwal]

Yes India did, when it was fighting for independence against the British, 1947. What happened after doesn't change the fact India was carved into 3.

Point to be noted sir

 

[Major]

Immaturity is when you are stuck on your own rhetorics and Indian version of history books. I bet you also believe those terrorists went on a boat to Mumbai and just casually crossed the Indian Navy and other nonsense they gave as facts. Regardless terrorism has happened in both countries, Pakistan has been severely impacted and funny how you are trying to play the card of India financing and supporting terrorism in Pakistan which has killed thousands of innocent civilians is not the same... Waah some great logic there!

And I see how you completely disregarded Indian terrorism in IOK for the past 75 years, just because you along with Bhakts here are high on usual "mera bharat mahan" anthem. Just because Pakistan is going through tough times because of clowns you support doesn't mean you have to appease them. I have no problem accepting peace should be the ultimate goal and we all definitely should be working towards it but don't simply bend over backwards to consider their side an angelic and us demons. This is the mindset which has polluted neighbors mind and we see them running their mouth with deep hatred against Pakistan all over social media.

You have gone crazy and way off topic.

 

[Romali_rotti]

You are digging youraelf a hole.

The kashmir we got was never cause of pak army but it was due to the tribal folks own determination.

Actually that is not true, it was because Grand Grand Pappa Nehru that buffoon decided to not take what is now POK, he had complete opportunity to take the entire region, however he only took what is now under Indian control and left the rest for Pakistan...

 

[Hitman]

Actually that is not true, it was because Grand Grand Pappa Nehru that buffoon decided to not take what is now POK, he had complete opportunity to take the entire region, however he only took what is now under Indian control and left the rest for Pakistan...

Sardar Patel begged him not to go to the UN. But our mahaan atma refused to listen to him.

 

[DRsohail]

Why would they need anyone? They got 1.5 billion consumer market and they weren't dragged into illegal wars like Pakistan. I don't understand how people even do comparison by completely disregarding facts. Pakistan does have it's own corrupt to core political families to blame who have treated Pakistan like their baap ke jageer hence cluster of illegal wars and deeply power hungry corrupt politicians have constantly severely hampered Pakistan. Corrupt politicans have allowed/fed corrupt army heads for decades hence this vicious circle has only gotten worse.

No country needs another to survive if they are stable, definitely not a country with fifth largest population of the world like Pakistan. But yes having good relationship with neighbours and other countries is much better way forward for all as peace will only benefit us all and leaders from both sides should work towards it instead of spreading ill. Poverty, femine and hunger are real enemies of sub continent, not who control what landscapes.

100% agreed.

 

[DRsohail]

Actually that is not true, it was because Grand Grand Pappa Nehru that buffoon decided to not take what is now POK, he had complete opportunity to take the entire region, however he only took what is now under Indian control and left the rest for Pakistan...

You thin azad kashmir called POK has been very unfortunate?

 

[Hitman]

You thin azad kashmir called POK has been very unfortunate?

Are they happy with Pakistan or do they want independence?

 

[Major]

Actually that is not true, it was because Grand Grand Pappa Nehru that buffoon decided to not take what is now POK, he had complete opportunity to take the entire region, however he only took what is now under Indian control and left the rest for Pakistan...

i dont know nor care what happened from India's side.

From Pakistans side it was the tribals that fought and won the area, not the pak army. You can cry aboue all you want, but the fact is our tribals captured the land

 

[RajBan]

i dont know nor care what happened from India's side.

From Pakistans side it was the tribals that fought and won the area, not the pak army. You can cry aboue all you want, but the fact is our tribals captured the land

Point is India would have taken control of Gilgit Baltistan if not POK if Nehru would not have tried to play a global populist role and let Tilak and Army generals handle the matter. Nehru caused similar blunder in 1962 war were Chinese heavily dominated India because Nehru assumed that Chinese will play equally statesmanlike .

 

[cricketjoshila]

[

 

[cricketjoshila]

Only in Indian books India has won all four wars. Losing Azad Kashmir in 48, going back in countless coffins from Lahore in 65, begging US to be rescued in Kargil etc are all examples of how war is "not won". If they had any guts the way you describe their strength then they would have responded to Abhinandan humiliation a while back, they didn't because they couldn't.

As for progress yes India is a massive populated country without being dragged into illegal wars and to an extent hasn't had as incompetent corrupt to core leaders like Pakistan so that has helped them. But looking at their size why so many obsessed Indians even bother comparing themselves to much smaller country like Pakistan is rather comical. Compare yourself to China, a similar sized country. I bet they never would because they know they are light years behind China when it comes to economy, technology, development, infrastructure, he** even basic hunger and cleanliness are far behind.

QUOTE=Kriketer;11815420]Only in Indian books India has won all four wars. Losing Azad Kashmir in 48, going back in countless coffins from Lahore in 65, begging US to be rescued in Kargil etc are all examples of how war is "not won". If they had any guts the way you describe their strength then they would have responded to Abhinandan humiliation a while back, they didn't because they couldn't.

As for progress yes India is a massive populated country without being dragged into illegal wars and to an extent hasn't had as incompetent corrupt to core leaders like Pakistan so that has helped them. But looking at their size why so many obsessed Indians even bother comparing themselves to much smaller country like Pakistan is rather comical. Compare yourself to China, a similar sized country. I bet they never would because they know they are light years behind China when it comes to economy, technology, development, infrastructure, he** even basic hunger and cleanliness are far behind.[/QUOTE]

Start reading a few neutral history books.

1948: PoK was not taken from Indian Army. It was taken from the Kashmir Army of Hari Singh. Infact Pakistan was barely kilometres away from Srinagar when Indian army landed in Kashmir and pushed Pakistan back to the fringes. If not for Nehru's ceasefire, Pakistan would have lost more. Infact in 1971 Indian army wrested two villages from Pakistan in Kashmir.

1965: Pakistan started a war to get Kashmir. Didn't succeed. Had to run back to defend Lahore. And then you claim it as a win. )

1971: 93000

1999: Pakistan Army was being pounded by the Indian army. They were running away leaving their dead behind who were buried by Indian army. Infact Pakistan claimed for months that no pakistani army personnel was involved. Nawaz Sharif had to run to Washington to buy a face saver.

 

[Major]

Point is India would have taken control of Gilgit Baltistan if not POK if Nehru would not have tried to play a global populist role and let Tilak and Army generals handle the matter. Nehru caused similar blunder in 1962 war were Chinese heavily dominated India because Nehru assumed that Chinese will play equally statesmanlike .

there is not point of saying WOULD HAD.

Talk about facts.

Pakistan's tribal folks took those land, and that is a fact.

Now you can say whatever you want that had Nehru not drank tea that day or had he not done that, it doesnt matter. Talk about facts which happened.

 

[Major]

Start reading a few neutral history books.

1948: PoK was not taken from Indian Army. It was taken from the Kashmir Army of Hari Singh. Infact Pakistan was barely kilometres away from Srinagar when Indian army landed in Kashmir and pushed Pakistan back to the fringes. If not for Nehru's ceasefire, Pakistan would have lost more. Infact in 1971 Indian army wrested two villages from Pakistan in Kashmir.

1965: Pakistan started a war to get Kashmir. Didn't succeed. Had to run back to defend Lahore. And then you claim it as a win. )

1971: 93000

1999: Pakistan Army was being pounded by the Indian army. They were running away leaving their dead behind who were buried by Indian army. Infact Pakistan claimed for months that no pakistani army personnel was involved. Nawaz Sharif had to run to Washington to buy a face saver.

I dont agree with you, but this is true and this is a fact that even Pakistan admits. I wouldn't say they pushed Pakistan back to the fringes, because the area was not captured by Pakistan army it were the tribals.

When Indian army pushed the tribals back, thats when Jinnah sent in Pakistan army and because the Pakistani army was more fresh they were able to fight and halt to the current LOC.

Now one can talk about Nehru did this, or had this not hapened this would had happened. Those are what ifs, but its a fact that Pakistanis tribalman did got those areas from Hari Sings man.

1965 started from Ran of Kutch, which India started. When Pakistan gained success there they got alittle more ambitious and decided to go for Kashmir which did not end well. 1965 was a stalemate, however being able to defend Ran of Kutch was a success for us.

1999 was failure because even though Pakistan was able to capture the area they wanted, but they failed to defend it as India had aerial support there. Pakistan army entered that area in civilian clothes.

 

[RajBan]

I dont agree with you, but this is true and this is a fact that even Pakistan admits. I wouldn't say they pushed Pakistan back to the fringes, because the area was not captured by Pakistan army it were the tribals.

When Indian army pushed the tribals back, thats when Jinnah sent in Pakistan army and because the Pakistani army was more fresh they were able to fight and halt to the current LOC.

Now one can talk about Nehru did this, or had this not hapened this would had happened. Those are what ifs, but its a fact that Pakistanis tribalman did got those areas from Hari Sings man.

1965 started from Ran of Kutch, which India started. When Pakistan gained success there they got alittle more ambitious and decided to go for Kashmir which did not end well. 1965 was a stalemate, however being able to defend Ran of Kutch was a success for us.

1999 was failure because even though Pakistan was able to capture the area they wanted, but they failed to defend it as India had aerial support there. Pakistan army entered that area in civilian clothes.

The tribals did not procure logistics by themselves. The tribal in that area are not a war tribe traditionally, they were supported by Pakistan army with arms and ammunitions to revolt against the king. So to say that Pakistan was sitting and sipping coffee all that time is not a fact.

 

[Major]

The tribals did not procure logistics by themselves. The tribal in that area are not a war tribe traditionally, they were supported by Pakistan army with arms and ammunitions to revolt against the king. So to say that Pakistan was sitting and sipping coffee all that time is not a fact.

do you live in Pakistan?

stop making up stuff plz.

Pakistan army did nothing, this is a known fact in Pakistan. Our historians tells us that Pakistan army got us Kashmir when infact they did not.

It were the tribals as the route to kashmir directly connected from Pakistan. Concentrate on your own sides history plz

 

[RajBan]

there is not point of saying WOULD HAD.

Talk about facts.

Pakistan's tribal folks took those land, and that is a fact.

Now you can say whatever you want that had Nehru not drank tea that day or had he not done that, it doesnt matter. Talk about facts which happened.

It's a fact that Nehru was clueless on military strategy. His typical statesmanship has been great for certain scenarios but an utter failure for a dogfight. I don't see a reason why both the facts can't sit side by side. That Nehru was squarely out of depth on his Kashmir strategy and Pakistani back local tribals wrestled control of some parts of Kashmir from the Maharaja till Indian army getting involved and started pushing back.

 

[RajBan]

do you live in Pakistan?

stop making up stuff plz.

Pakistan army did nothing, this is a known fact in Pakistan. Our historians tells us that Pakistan army got us Kashmir when infact they did not.

It were the tribals as the route to kashmir directly connected from Pakistan. Concentrate on your own sides history plz

What's me to do with staying in Pakistan? Why don't you objectively counter the narrative that Pakistan did instigate the tribals in the name of religion and provide backing to them when they were in offense.

You are good logical guy in this forum with a much more modern outlook, but then not sure why you get so emotional on Bhutto ,Cricket and couple of other items and start defying logic .

 

[Major]

It's a fact that Nehru was clueless on military strategy. His typical statesmanship has been great for certain scenarios but an utter failure for a dogfight. I don't see a reason why both the facts can't sit side by side. That Nehru was squarely out of depth on his Kashmir strategy and Pakistani back local tribals wrestled control of some parts of Kashmir from the Maharaja till Indian army getting involved and started pushing back.

thats an opinion not a fact.

Anyways, there is no point of what ifs, when the fact (something that happened actually) was that Pakistan got kashmir on its own and quite a big size of it.

Now to cry about he was not wearing his Pjs or he would had done that is useless. Do you see any Pakistani poster say that Pakistan had done xyz than abc would had happened? no, i understand that you are making these childish arguments just to boost your own ego.

Fact is, Pakistan was able to get a big portion of Kashmir on its own. i find it funny how you wrote some.

 

[Major]

What's me to do with staying in Pakistan? Why don't you objectively counter the narrative that Pakistan did instigate the tribals in the name of religion and provide backing to them when they were in offense.

You are good logical guy in this forum with a much more modern outlook, but then not sure why you get so emotional on Bhutto ,Cricket and couple of other items and start defying logic .

Im logical for someone till im playing their narrative, i than turn a bad or illogical poster when the other persons narrative isnt being fulfilled.

Pakistan army didnt get involved until Indian army also got involved. Jinnah knew the drawback of this if they got involved.

The tribals yes got involved in the name of religion but not because the army instigated them.

One thing that is important to remember is the trade routes. Kashmir was only accessed through Pakistan at the time and when the muslim revolt there failed and the traders who were seeing all this used to tell stories to the Pathan tribals at evening when they would reach back home. Thats where they would take up arms.

Pakistan army wouldn't make a single move withouth Jinnah's orders and Jinnah was in Karachi. Jinnah knew getting involved in this would result in backlash from the British.

Pakistan army did zilch and only came in when the tribals were being pushed back by the Indian army.

You can further read it here.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-41662588

 

[RajBan]

thats an opinion not a fact.

Anyways, there is no point of what ifs, when the fact (something that happened actually) was that Pakistan got kashmir on its own and quite a big size of it.

Now to cry about he was not wearing his Pjs or he would had done that is useless. Do you see any Pakistani poster say that Pakistan had done xyz than abc would had happened? no, i understand that you are making these childish arguments just to boost your own ego.

Fact is, Pakistan was able to get a big portion of Kashmir on its own. i find it funny how you wrote some.

It's you who is acting childish and I dare say as impatient to comprehend that my fact does not contradict yours. No where I am denying that Pakistan controls significant chunk of Kashmir. Credit to them on fulfilling their objectives. All I am lamenting is that Nehru went soft and did not allow propper offense from India side. It not opinion either, it's well documented fact.

 

[Major]

It's you who is acting childish and I dare say as impatient to comprehend that my fact does not contradict yours. No where I am denying that Pakistan controls significant chunk of Kashmir. Credit to them on fulfilling their objectives. All I am lamenting is that Nehru went soft and did not allow propper offense from India side. It not opinion either, it's well documented fact.

no,

First you said some parts of kashmir
than you keep on wasting time on what ifs, or would had should hads.. You are not concentrating on facts,

Saying what ifs etc is just an opinion, because no one knows for sure what the end result would had been. Hence, not facts.

The fact is Pakistan got major parts of Kashmir

 

[RajBan]

Im logical for someone till im playing their narrative, i than turn a bad or illogical poster when the other persons narrative isnt being fulfilled.

Pakistan army didnt get involved until Indian army also got involved. Jinnah knew the drawback of this if they got involved.

The tribals yes got involved in the name of religion but not because the army instigated them.

One thing that is important to remember is the trade routes. Kashmir was only accessed through Pakistan at the time and when the muslim revolt there failed and the traders who were seeing all this used to tell stories to the Pathan tribals at evening when they would reach back home. Thats where they would take up arms.

Pakistan army wouldn't make a single move withouth Jinnah's orders and Jinnah was in Karachi. Jinnah knew getting involved in this would result in backlash from the British.

Pakistan army did zilch and only came in when the tribals were being pushed back by the Indian army.

You can further read it here.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-41662588

Sorry. It's gullible to think that Pakistan army was sitting idle and suddenly decided one fine morning to go to Kashmir to help the tribals when they heard that Indian army is involved. Battles do not happen suddenly , there are tons of escalations , many intentional to shape events that takes places behind the scenes

 

[RajBan]

no,

First you said some parts of kashmir
than you keep on wasting time on what ifs, or would had should hads.. You are not concentrating on facts,

Saying what ifs etc is just an opinion, because no one knows for sure what the end result would had been. Hence, not facts.

The fact is Pakistan got major parts of Kashmir

Good for you to believe that. I wish you happiness with your facts.

 

[Romali_rotti]

Grand grand pappa Nehru

- Totally screwed up Kashmir, let Pakistan take POK, then decided to make an internal matter a UN Matter. To which the Pakistanis now get to claim oh oh it is a UN disputed issue lol .

Not only did Grandpappa make a mess of everything but also ensured India and Pakistan would remain enemies till the end of time creating a volatile neighborhood.


- Next great blunder, got his butt handed to him by the Chinese, lost Aksai Chin on a royal platter to China. China/India bhai bhai, when US approached India to join the UN security council, grand pappa like a good boy said please give it to China lol That Bufoon, may you be rotting in misery in hell ..

These 2 blunders ensured India would always have 2 hostile neighbors till the end of time, Shabhash betta Shabhasshh....

Its not all bad though, Grand Pappa gave us Raul Puppu

 

[Major]

Sorry. It's gullible to think that Pakistan army was sitting idle and suddenly decided one fine morning to go to Kashmir to help the tribals when they heard that Indian army is involved. Battles do not happen suddenly , there are tons of escalations , many intentional to shape events that takes places behind the scenes

Umm, this again shows you know nothing about Pakistan history and making assumptions after assumptions.

Pakistan and India army never got involved initially. During the start when the tensions broke and Pakistani tribals started capturing Kashmir, India and Pakistan were both following the rule that each princely state has to sign the instrument of accession. Hari Singh kept delaying this as Kashmir was the largest princely state and its location was very important that it could had been a strategic country, he was trying to delay the whole process.

India and Pakistan both were respecting the signing of the document.

When Hari singhs force had to run back and tribals reached near Srinagar, Hari Singh begged the Indian govt to intervene, but India said he would have to sign the instrument first. (The whole Kashmir conflict starts from here as India claims he signed it but Pakistan says show the document, but that is a discussion of another thread and time)

Anyways, India got involved and started to move back the Pakistani tribals.

Jinnah gets informed about India's involvement and Jinnah was reluctant to get involved in this whole mess because Kashmir joining either one was the decision of the ruler. Jinnah got involved because he did not know whether the Indian army advances would stop after capturing Kashmir or not. What if Indian army decides to further expand and capture the areas of Pakistan.

Thus, to defend itself, Pakistan army got involved and the fight got halted to todays loc.

 

[Major]

Good for you to believe that. I wish you happiness with your facts.

again you seem to not understand that what you are stating is what ifs

 

[Major]

) [MENTION=149015]RajBan[/MENTION] now believes India was offered a seat for UN security council. Is this the propaganda that is fed in India now adays. This is enough to destroy any credibility you had.

India could not have replaced China on the Security Council without an amendment to the UN Charter. Such an amendment could not have passed over the USSR's veto, which at the time (well before the Sino-Soviet split) it would have exercised

 

[RajBan]

) [MENTION=149015]RajBan[/MENTION] now believes India was offered a seat for UN security council. Is this the propaganda that is fed in India now adays. This is enough to destroy any credibility you had.

India could not have replaced China on the Security Council without an amendment to the UN Charter. Such an amendment could not have passed over the USSR's veto, which at the time (well before the Sino-Soviet split) it would have exercised

I did not put that comment in the first place but since you tagged me, let me tell you this is one of the prominent narratives that India was offered the seat at expense of China but Nehru did not want to pursue that as he did not want to make it a sore point between India and China and potential conflict with his other policy of non alignment. Ofcourse there is no declassified artifact which puts this in black and white but enough research has been done to say that this was an option considered to get India on board. There could have been domino effect of that on Indo-USSR relations and US-Pak bonhomie that followed later but that's speculative at this point.

https://www.wilsoncenter.org/public...-and-the-united-nations-security-council-1950

 

[RajBan]

Umm, this again shows you know nothing about Pakistan history and making assumptions after assumptions.

Pakistan and India army never got involved initially. During the start when the tensions broke and Pakistani tribals started capturing Kashmir, India and Pakistan were both following the rule that each princely state has to sign the instrument of accession. Hari Singh kept delaying this as Kashmir was the largest princely state and its location was very important that it could had been a strategic country, he was trying to delay the whole process.

India and Pakistan both were respecting the signing of the document.

When Hari singhs force had to run back and tribals reached near Srinagar, Hari Singh begged the Indian govt to intervene, but India said he would have to sign the instrument first. (The whole Kashmir conflict starts from here as India claims he signed it but Pakistan says show the document, but that is a discussion of another thread and time)

Anyways, India got involved and started to move back the Pakistani tribals.

Jinnah gets informed about India's involvement and Jinnah was reluctant to get involved in this whole mess because Kashmir joining either one was the decision of the ruler. Jinnah got involved because he did not know whether the Indian army advances would stop after capturing Kashmir or not. What if Indian army decides to further expand and capture the areas of Pakistan.

Thus, to defend itself, Pakistan army got involved and the fight got halted to todays loc.

Sorry you can believe that. India and rest of the world knows that Pakistan was sponsoring unrest in princely state of Kashmir to get control of it's strategic points after Hari Singh declined to go with either of India or Pakistan inspite of pressure from both sides. When Hari Singh realised that the tribal unrest instigated by Pakistani establishment would result in loss of Kashmir altogether he decided to sign the accession treaty with India (basically struck a deal with Indian establishment) thereafter giving legitimacy to Indian state to intervene. Pakistan army had no other choice at that point other than to get involved face to face.

P.S. I hope you don't believe that the people who fought in Kargil were local tribals and not members of Pakistan army.

 

[Major]

I did not put that comment in the first place but since you tagged me, let me tell you this is one of the prominent narratives that India was offered the seat at expense of China but Nehru did not want to pursue that as he did not want to make it a sore point between India and China and potential conflict with his other policy of non alignment. Ofcourse there is no declassified artifact which puts this in black and white but enough research has been done to say that this was an option considered to get India on board. There could have been domino effect of that on Indo-USSR relations and US-Pak bonhomie that followed later but that's speculative at this point.

https://www.wilsoncenter.org/public...-and-the-united-nations-security-council-1950

Lolll they were not offered this was a recent modi medua propoganda....

I have already given you the reasons how this would not had beeb possible due to ussr veto

 

[Major]

Sorry you can believe that. India and rest of the world knows that Pakistan was sponsoring unrest in princely state of Kashmir to get control of it's strategic points after Hari Singh declined to go with either of India or Pakistan inspite of pressure from both sides. When Hari Singh realised that the tribal unrest instigated by Pakistani establishment would result in loss of Kashmir altogether he decided to sign the accession treaty with India (basically struck a deal with Indian establishment) thereafter giving legitimacy to Indian state to intervene. Pakistan army had no other choice at that point other than to get involved face to face.

P.S. I hope you don't believe that the people who fought in Kargil were local tribals and not members of Pakistan army.

There is no point arguing with someone who is not pakistani and yet tries to tell us about pakistan history that too with a false story ..