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Ireland vs Pakistan | Only Test | Dublin | May 11-15, 2018 | Day 3 | Match Thread

Should carry on to put the pressure on the Ireland team and look yo get them bowled out cheaply and maybe push for a follow on.
 
Abbas has been really impressive gives glimpses of Asif, with bowl swinging and seaming both ways
 
and people want to say Sadaf wouldn't succeed? Abbas like Sadaf is a top wicket taker in FC and results are for everyone to see ... but this think tank still went with Rahat over Mir Hamza and Sadaf ... even Amir doesn't warrant selection for tests
 
Mamoon said:
A one-off Test win vs Ireland has no significance when you will be slaughtered by England in a couple of weeks.
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Our best chance is at Lord's as it's a dry, slow, almost Asian pitch these days.

I don't see us winning at Headingley though, England have a strong record outside London and it will swing.

It's frustrating that our batting has been so flimsy as this England team is beatable. Their batting is regularly 3 down for less than 100. You have Cook's inconsistency, Root struggling to convert starts, and numbers 2 and 3 being problematic for a long time. This series will be about which team can hide their flaws the best.
 
MMHS said:
PAK actually is playing against time, not Ireland - I think, result was never in doubt for a 450 overs Test.

You are digging own hole here for the Pom tour unnecessarily :) Couple of years back it started same and then you had to come back with late summer, Jimmy's injury, Ben Sobers's absence ..... Poms are very good at home - crashed IND, SAF & AUS comfortably in last series, therefore 2-0 isn't unexpected for a PAK side probably least experienced tour party in UK since 1954.

Anyway, what should PAK do here - play according to match IRL, as it's a practice game and people should taunt bowlers that they made IRL 5-3 and might fail to take 3 wickets in a day in ENG?
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The conditions did contribute to the 2-2 draw though, because we saw what happened to that team on green-tops in NZ only 3 months later. Pakistan is doing here what they are supposed to be doing, but the folks here are celebrating too much for my liking.

This match should be treated as a warmup because it is nothing more than that. We have a history of raising our expectations unnecessarily and I don't want that to happen again.
 
DeadBall said:
Looks like the county stint has done Abbas some good.
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Some? He has learned more in 8 weeks than his 8 years of QeA style. If you look his spell, first, he is releasing at least a foot closer to wicket than in WIN; he has developed a stock ball in channel and nipping odd ball in, on target - result is 3 LBWs.
 
Markhor said:
Our best chance is at Lord's as it's a dry, slow, almost Asian pitch these days.

I don't see us winning at Headingley though, England have a strong record outside London and it will swing.

It's frustrating that our batting has been so flimsy as this England team is beatable. Their batting is regularly 3 down for less than 100. You have Cook's inconsistency, Root struggling to convert starts, and numbers 2 and 3 being problematic for a long time. This series will be about which team can hide their flaws the best.
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England find a way to win at home. A lot was said about their weakness last summer and how South Africa were supposed to beat them on the back of the series win in Australia, but they came up short, contrary to the expectations.

Lord's is dry and slow, but overhead conditions will play a role too. We were reduced to 2-3 in the Lord's ODI in 2016, while England were 6 down for 20 runs against South Africa a year later.

If we get some sunshine, we will be in with a glimmer of hope, but in overcast conditions, our batting will not hold up.
 
Perfect. He needs to bowl full more. And that did swing. Pitch the ball up!
 
I just wish he pitches the ball up more, and deliver them close to the stumps. He will be more dangerous than the likes of boult and equally at par or may be better than Mitch. Stark.
 
The start has been similar to ours, some early wickets and then some shots being played, however Ireland have lost a couple more wickets than they would have wanted to.
 
This is a pitch where you need to play your shots and go at a strike rate of 50+. These two batsmen are the best attacking batsmen Ireland have. Imperative for Pakistan to knock atleast one over before they get set.
 
I wonder if Ireland have good enough young talent coming through to justify the Test status. It is quite telling that they are still relying on the class of 2007.

They don't seem to be capable of moving on from the likes of Porterfield, Weasley brothers, Joyce, Stirling etc.
 
Mamoon said:
The conditions did contribute to the 2-2 draw though, because we saw what happened to that team on green-tops in NZ only 3 months later. Pakistan is doing here what they are supposed to be doing, but the folks here are celebrating too much for my liking.

This match should be treated as a warmup because it is nothing more than that. We have a history of raising our expectations unnecessarily and I don't want that to happen again.
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I think, folks were more concern than you for this Test - you can read the pre-match thread with the pictures of first cut wicket. They are a bit upbeat watching this, which I think was quite predictable - it's a game with 3 slips & entire ground free to slog; batting obviously should be too easy here than T20, with 5 men on line and SIX hitting is the toughest job in game ........ but in reality, it's not to be honest.

It's a Test match and stats will go in career - Sachin Tendulkar doesn't feel shamed that his top 2 Test scores are against BD of 2006 and in a game that produced probably 1600 runs for 25 wickets, with AUS missing Mac & Warne. Players should honor the game and opponent equally.
 
Rahat will swing more, as he has got his basics right better than Amir.
 
MMHS said:
Some? He has learned more in 8 weeks than his 8 years of QeA style. If you look his spell, first, he is releasing at least a foot closer to wicket than in WIN; he has developed a stock ball in channel and nipping odd ball in, on target - result is 3 LBWs.
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He was always a channel bowler however you make it seem as if the QeA didn't make him the bowler that he is today. In the recently concluded QeA (Nov/Dec 2017) he took 37 wickets out of which 13 were either bowled/LBW/Caught&Bowled implying that 35.xx% of his wickets were due to bowling straight at the stumps!

For a channel bowler that is pretty good enough since every other wicket he took was behind the stumps at the slip cordon or to the keeper and 80%+ of those wickets were top order batsmen.
 
ahmedwaqas92 said:
He was always a channel bowler however you make it seem as if the QeA didn't make him the bowler that he is today. In the recently concluded QeA (Nov/Dec 2017) he took 37 wickets out of which 13 were either bowled/LBW/Caught&Bowled implying that 35.xx% of his wickets were due to bowling straight at the stumps!

For a channel bowler that is pretty good enough since every other wicket he took was behind the stumps at the slip cordon or to the keeper and 80%+ of those wickets were top order batsmen.
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Check the average % of Bowled/LBW in QeA and cricket in out side Asia venues in Counties, or Shield or SAF, even Ireland domestics - form a medium pace, incoming bowler, those slow, soggy, low wickets will produce highest number of wickets without help of fielders, that's not a surprise. In recent, PAK domestics has by far highest % of LBW & Bowled than any where for a reason.

What has changed here is, he is releasing from close to wicket, for that wicket to wicket line already has got a close LWB from umpires. Previously, he used to slant in and the low, slow wickets got domestic batsmen with poor technique trapped in front, which won't happen on better bouncy track.

Stats are dangerous things, if it's plotted on charts & plots without context or understanding what critical factor need to be looked at.
 
Good batting by Ashraf and Shadab, but poor selection as their batting shouldn't decide their selection.

Surely two bits and parts all rounders shouldn't play in the same side with 2 Tests between them. (4 after this). Ireland isn't an appropriate judge for their skills. and which other test nation make such selections???

Not to mention next week Haris will have played a few Tests, Imam 1, and Babar 12. Sarfraz is a doable #7, but this XI is ill-advised.

6 specialist bastmen, 4 specialist/best bowlers. If conditions will be bowler friendly in ENG, Sarfraz can't bat at 6, with Imam, Babar, and Haris in the top 5.
 
Pakistan is going to win this by an innings and some runs. I hope the Irish President has left the area :). Not going to be a pretty sight for them.
 
Soccer time guys, we have to draw a game at home today. Hope by the time I come back, Irish are still batting ....... in their 1st innings.
 
MMHS said:
Check the average % of Bowled/LBW in QeA and cricket in out side Asia venues in Counties, or Shield or SAF, even Ireland domestics - form a medium pace, incoming bowler, those slow, soggy, low wickets will produce highest number of wickets without help of fielders, that's not a surprise. In recent, PAK domestics has by far highest % of LBW & Bowled than any where for a reason.
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I don't quite follow here, are you implying that the 'slow' & 'soggy' wickets increase your chances of LBW? Because if that's the case then 35.xx% of wickets achieved in a season for such (out of a total of 37 wickets) are decent numbers to begin with.

If it's the other way around then again a 65/35 percentage of wickets with fielders/without fielders are clearly showing his ability that despite being a corridor bowler he can irk out nearly 4 out of every 10 wickets by bowling stump to stump.

Please clarify your POV here.

What has changed here is, he is releasing from close to wicket, for that wicket to wicket line already has got a close LWB from umpires. Previously, he used to slant in and the low, slow wickets got domestic batsmen with poor technique trapped in front, which won't happen on better bouncy track.
Click to expand...

You are basing your viewpoint on footage of 5 international test matches that Abbas has played in the following venues:

Kingston
Bridgetown
Roseau
Abu Dhabi
Dubai

All of these venues are slow low wickets so his 'slant' that you are mentioning here could be a deliberate ploy to bring the 5th and 6th stump into play since he lacks pace and needs to create angles to get something out of the pitch (given he's a corridor bowler). After all, the guy has 10% of the total first class experience Pakistan has put up against Ireland in this game. :P

Stats are dangerous things, if it's plotted on charts & plots without context or understanding what critical factor need to be looked at.
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Singaporean National Telecom (SingTel) could be in some serious trouble now I guess :)) given they might've entrusted their entire Big Data Dept to someone so emphatically incompetent.......
 
Sorry this is too easy... Northants and Kent were a tougher challenge.
 
Ireland as an island is quite unique in that a spinning ball regardless of where it pitches, who bowls it or whether there even is a batsman present, it will find a way to get itself out.
 
Imperative that Pakistan keeps the pressure on and doesn't let them carry on.

Kevin will be going for his shots now that he's down to the tail it that is a good thing for both teams as well.
 
Rinnegan Sasuke said:
I think we should bat,avail every opportunity to get a hang of the conditions.
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It's best to stamp authority on the opposition regardless of whoever they are. Does not matter if it's Ireland or India, conditions for each match would wary let's look at winning and not to bat out time unnecessarily.
 
Donal Cozzie said:
Ireland as an island is quite unique in that a spinning ball regardless of where it pitches, who bowls it or whether there even is a batsman present, it will find a way to get itself out.
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Many non-asian countries have that issue. Australia being one of the worst.
 
The destroyer is allowing the other kids to pick up the wickets because if he gets in the mood Ireland would voluntarily give up their test status. :rahat
 
Hmm, poor performance. Hardly any new notable face in Ireland team. It's exactly the same old team.
 
If Ireland lose all their wickets and Pakistan have the choice to enforce a follow on - I personally think they shouldn't enforce it as our batsmen need more practice, the likes of Azhar Ali, Babar Azam and Sarfaraz Ahmed need some runs under their belt.
 
So nearly every other person here wants Pakistan not to enforce the follow on if it happens and actually bat again for some batting practice.

People assuming that they'll look to score second time round instead of scoring at 1 an over like they did in the first innings.
 
Deewana Mastana said:
So nearly every other person here wants Pakistan not to enforce the follow on if it happens and actually bat again for some batting practice.

People assuming that they'll look to score second time round instead of scoring at 1 an over like they did in the first innings.
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That's not that important, but getting some runs will be great for their confidence!
 
But but but Amir is finished please listen to me I'm a fast bowling expert and was the first change bowler in my gully..... please I have lots of fast bowling experience and am fully adept at making judgement at international level bowlers :sree :sree :sree
 
Syed1 said:
But but but Amir is finished please listen to me I'm a fast bowling expert and was the first change bowler in my gully..... please I have lots of fast bowling experience and am fully adept at making judgement at international level bowlers :sree :sree :sree
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Lol!! First change bowler in gully cricket 😂... good one bro
 
hadi123 said:
That's not that important, but getting some runs will be great for their confidence!
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Yes but winning the match should be priority and considering rain and weather its better to bowl by enforcing follow on
 
hadi123 said:
If Ireland lose all their wickets and Pakistan have the choice to enforce a follow on - I personally think they shouldn't enforce it as our batsmen need more practice, the likes of Azhar Ali, Babar Azam and Sarfaraz Ahmed need some runs under their belt.
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There's a match against Leicestershire before the Lord's Test.

We've been in a poor run of Test form so winning this match, regardless of quality of opposition, should be prioritised.
 
There was so much paranoia and depression on PP during the side-match past few weeks and now everybody is acting like as if they never doubted the boys.
 
I'd not enforce the follow on, let the top order get some experience. Then declare when we get around a 400 lead. So probably bat for 100 runs or so.
 
If Mir Hamza was also playing in test team then it is an all-star test bowling attack
 
On this pitch you just need to survive the first session. After 30overs this is a good pitch to bat on. Pakistan really should take these 2wickets quickly and not go through the motions.
 
Markhor said:
There's a match against Leicestershire before the Lord's Test.

We've been in a poor run of Test form so winning this match, regardless of quality of opposition, should be prioritised.
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Mate you just wanna see Ireland demolished because of 2007 dont hide it ;P
 
Donal Cozzie said:
Mate you just wanna see Ireland demolished because of 2007 dont hide it ;P
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Ireland has been demolished on regular basis by Pakistan after that. Its been almost 11 years now since then. Dont know how long irish fans are going to keep holding to that.
 
Sirris said:
There was so much paranoia and depression on PP during the side-match past few weeks and now everybody is acting like as if they never doubted the boys.
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Batting is still an achilles heel, signs don't look good.. we just saved faces by that 7th wicket partnership
 
Slim said:
Ireland has been demolished on regular basis by Pakistan after that. Its been almost 11 years now since then. Dont know how long irish fans are going to keep holding to that.
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I know they have been. Its a joke I have with Markhor because he always brings up 2007 saying he hopes we get demolished, Guy has been emotionally traumatised by our boys, even noted when Pakistan passed their score in 2007 during the first innings yesterday :P I just hope one of these slaughterings Pakistan gives us will eventually help him overcome his fear of Andre Botha's cutters :P
 
waleed88 said:
Batting is still an achilles heel, signs don't look good.. we just saved faces by that 7th wicket partnership
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I am not saying everything is well with the pak team. What I meant to say is that the general atmosphere here is very bipolar.

For instance the impression I got while reading a couple of posts in this thread was as if Amir had taken a 5fer. When in reality he still has a long way to prove his worth.

On the other hand right before this match everybody was sure that Amir is done and dusted and needs to be kept away from the test team.

It takes too little for a player to be written off and than too little for the same player to be world best again.

I'd welcome a more realistic and level-headed attitude.
 
ahmedwaqas92 said:
I don't quite follow here, are you implying that the 'slow' & 'soggy' wickets increase your chances of LBW? Because if that's the case then 35.xx% of wickets achieved in a season for such (out of a total of 37 wickets) are decent numbers to begin with.

If it's the other way around then again a 65/35 percentage of wickets with fielders/without fielders are clearly showing his ability that despite being a corridor bowler he can irk out nearly 4 out of every 10 wickets by bowling stump to stump.

Please clarify your POV here.



You are basing your viewpoint on footage of 5 international test matches that Abbas has played in the following venues:

Kingston
Bridgetown
Roseau
Abu Dhabi
Dubai

All of these venues are slow low wickets so his 'slant' that you are mentioning here could be a deliberate ploy to bring the 5th and 6th stump into play since he lacks pace and needs to create angles to get something out of the pitch (given he's a corridor bowler). After all, the guy has 10% of the total first class experience Pakistan has put up against Ireland in this game. :P



Singaporean National Telecom (SingTel) could be in some serious trouble now I guess :)) given they might've entrusted their entire Big Data Dept to someone so emphatically incompetent.......
Click to expand...

PAK FC wickets produces at least 40% LBW + Bowled - don't catch me with your % stats because I am writing from memory. If I take out Run Outs, that's wicket on bowler's credit, this figure I am sure will hit close to 50%, at least 45% - I am giving you a task, since you love to do analyst job - check the over all stats of last years QeA games and compare Abbas's 35% with over all figure, that should give some idea. Still, it's inconclusive, unless you do the comparison with Abbas's team mates and other bowlers in the games he played. My hunch is, his 35% will be lower than game average - and compared to bowlers like Aizaz Cheema (similar type, but Cheema bowls wide of wicket hence didn't have long International career). Unless these figures are not below 35%, your % is useless like the last analysis on prediction of how much Azhar Ali'll score and then ending what he needs to score for PAK to win - hope, you cane see the difference in title & conclusion.



I have an Electrical Engineering degree, an MBA, a PMP & a CFA Part 2 filed twice :( (but passed the Part 1 :) in flying color when I didn't need to live as an immigrant), and I have a masters certification on Data Analytics - with decent knowledge of SAS & R from Rotman; I have a valid GMAT score of 700, so one day I might join Rotman or Schulich or Queens for a Masteers of Big Data, as of now my other pieces are earning enough for rice & fish - this is to give you a little confidence that I do know how to crunch data, not to boast my credentials. But, Excel I have left 10 years back, more of a Power Point & MS Project guy these days - hence, more than curve or charts, I am more interested in the foot note of the chart. Few of you SingTel CXO were my regular audience, on monthly business reviews, so have some confidence.

But even then, I can't explain "slow" & "soggy" wicket and it's impact on wicket to wicket seemers against batsmen majority of whom are tape tennis groomed and play with planted front foot. And I won't try to explain that to someone who comes with a smiley, as if ... then comes to debate on "soggy", "slow" wickets and brings

Kingston
Bridgetown
Roseau
Abu Dhabi
Dubai

as example ......................

Have peace man. If you want to bother further, please bring the % stats I mentioned in first part, otherwise don't waste time to impress us here with your SingTel job. We are 2-0 up, so came here at half time, and spoiled the mood.
 
Honestly how I thought it'd go down. Batting would struggle a bit due to the different conditions, bowling will dominate. 5 bowlers was the wrong decision, we only needed 4, though Fahim's batting has stepped up like a regular batsman. Was a wrong decision yet again by Mickey who clearly thought they needed the extra bowler (hence batting Fahim at 8). Mickey might have good ability to get the best out of players, but team selection he doesn't seem the best, some very strange decisions. Also was probably the wrong decision to leave Hasan out for Rahat.

Puts us in a dilemna for England. It's obvious we need an extra batsman but you can't drop Fahim after his batting display. And none of the batsmen coming in have had any practice games.
 
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