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Is Bangladesh really the second best team in Asia?

I forgot Pakistan did win the Champions Trophy which Bangladesh can never win in the next 20 years or so.

ODIS
1) Team India
2) Pakistan
3) Afghanistan / Bangladesh
4) Srilanka
 
latecut said:
Instead of making subjective claims without any basis, one should use rankings to judge where Bangladesh stands. ICC already has rankings of cricket teams in tests, ODIs and T20.
......

In tests, they are number 4, in ODI they are number 3, in T20 they are number 5. If they are not number 2 in any of the three formats then how can they be overall number 2 in Asia ?
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This should be the end of this thread. If BD gets better then they will be ranked higher. Everything else is just gibberish.
 
Buffet said:
This should be the end of this thread. If BD gets better then they will be ranked higher. Everything else is just gibberish.
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There is an another twist to the story. The thread actually originated based on ODI performances.

You have to consider tournaments performances as well.

2015 WC— tied 2nd with Pak
2016 Asia Cup— 2nd
2017 CT trophy— 3rd
2018 Asia Cup— 2nd

I am obviously not supporting the idea, but more food for thought.
 
BDfanforever said:
There is an another twist to the story. The thread actually originated based on ODI performances.

You have to consider tournaments performances as well.

2015 WC— tied 2nd with Pak
2016 Asia Cup— 2nd
2017 CT trophy— 3rd
2018 Asia Cup— 2nd

I am obviously not supporting the idea, but more food for thought.
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I don't think that ICC rankings are perfect, but if the long term trend puts BD as 2nd spot then they will be at 2nd spot for me. If not then they are not at 2nd spot. Rankings are maintained due to consistency and that's a pretty good indicator.

Even if we are just talking about ODI, I will take ranking trend over a long term as a good indicators of standings of various teams.
 
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latecut said:
I do not see fans of any other team making claims like they are the second best team in Australasia, Europe, Africa etc. It is only Bangladeshi fans who tend to make such claims.

Instead of making subjective claims without any basis, one should use rankings to judge where Bangladesh stands. ICC already has rankings of cricket teams in tests, ODIs and T20. Do not tell us that the subjective rankings of Bangladeshi fans are better than that devised by ICC. If Bangladeshi fans were that good in cricket and in devising cricket rankings, their achievements would have spoken for themselves.
Let us find where Bangladesh stands in Asia in the three formats of cricket. In tests, they are number 4, in ODI they are number 3, in T20 they are number 5. If they are not number 2 in any of the three formats then how can they be overall number 2 in Asia ?

Giving equal weightage to the rankings in three formats, and taking the average, Bangladesh is the fourth best cricketing team in Asia. That is what ICC rankings say. If You are not happy with ICC ranking, they you are free to make your own ranking that gives Bangladesh very high ranking in cricket. Of course no one else is going to recognise your rankings. :srini
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Your post makes sense. ICC rankings should be the only guide to decide. We are 3rd in ODI ranking behind India and Pakistan and ahead of others. To surpass Pakistan we should play and win an ODI series although we beat them in 4 consequative ODIs recently.
Just based on one's assumption,claiming 2nd is meaningless indeed.
 
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Mainul said:
Yes, I hate India only for BCCI didn't inviting us in India for a full series even after 18 years of getting test status . This is extreme arrogance, obnoxious behaviour to one's closest neighbour.
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I'll agree, it's not fair. But then again, the BCCI has also done it's best to help Bangladesh cricket over the years, a reason why the BCB has always had very good relations with the BCCI.
 
Hitman said:
I'll agree, it's not fair. But then again, the BCCI has also done it's best to help Bangladesh cricket over the years, a reason why the BCB has always had very good relations with the BCCI.
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Yes, no doubt India helped us in the past.But at present situation the biggest help for Bangladesh on behalf of BCCI will be to arrange regular full series with BD home and away. BCB has money, has infrastructure, has fanbase, so they don't need these anymore . But to take BD cricket to next level BD should play more and more tests and ODI series with all teams. The rivalry between India vs BD in ODIs is evident. In tests also BD will perform better than WI in India. So if India can regularly invite a bunny team like WI in India for full series ,then BD at least deserves equal chances.
 
Mainul said:
Yes, no doubt India helped us in the past.But at present situation the biggest help for Bangladesh on behalf of BCCI will be to arrange regular full series with BD home and away. BCB has money, has infrastructure, has fanbase, so they don't need these anymore . But to take BD cricket to next level BD should play more and more tests and ODI series with all teams. The rivalry between India vs BD in ODIs is evident. In tests also BD will perform better than WI in India. So if India can regularly invite a bunny team like WI in India for full series ,then BD at least deserves equal chances.
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Can't disagree here. Would like to see it happen.
 
Hitman said:
I'll agree, it's not fair. But then again, the BCCI has also done it's best to help Bangladesh cricket over the years, a reason why the BCB has always had very good relations with the BCCI.
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Why does India keep inviting SL and WI but not BD? Surely BD won't do any worse than WI in Asia?
 
it really depends on which format you're refering to. In ODI undoubtly yes after India ofcourse, other formats not even close.
 
BreadPakoda said:
Not second best imho but can give Pak, SL a run for their money in tests and ODIs.
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Agreed. They are a much better side now. I reckon they will do even better if they dont believe in the media hype and just put their heads down and play the game.
 
Heisenberg111 said:
Yeah, a team ranked no.7 in odi's is 2nd best in asia,lol
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Seriously man, lol is not a proper reply if you want to get into an debate by quoting someone else. You have a better explanation give it and change my mind. Don't reply with petty LOL
 
light said:
Seriously man, lol is not a proper reply if you want to get into an debate by quoting someone else. You have a better explanation give it and change my mind. Don't reply with petty LOL
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India and Pakistan are above BD in rankings. Does that make BD 2nd best in asia? There is your explanation. Now, plz don't come up with the tripe that rankings are meaningless etc.
 
Anybody who follows cricket regularly will agree with me regarding the fact that BD is certainly the second best team in from Asia, especially in ODIs.

BD has reached the Asia Cup final more than any other Asian teams in recent times. They should have won at least two of those finals but couldn't do so due to bad luck and biased umpiring. It means, they have been consistently performing better than most of the other Asian teams.

Whenever a tournament has been arranged involving the Asian trans only BD has outperformed Pak and SL which has made them the second best team from Asia. Furthermore, BD have beaten Pak 4/5 times straight in a row in ODIs. It clearly suggests that we r the superior team. Otherwise we wouldn't have beaten them so regularly and that too with such ease.

If we evaluate all the Asian teams, their strength and weakness, their recent performance, head to head wi/Loss in recent times then we'll see that currently BD is easily the second best Asian team.
 
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Heisenberg111 said:
India and Pakistan are above BD in rankings. Does that make BD 2nd best in asia? There is your explanation. Now, plz don't come up with the tripe that rankings are meaningless etc.
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Why even bring india in this discussion. We are way above any of the asian team. OP's thread is about second best. Difference of second best v best is a huge difference here. Anyways, So let's get into the real discussion. Pakistan is not the second best team in asia (ODI). BD/SL are bottom feeders in test. In t20, below afg. Also since you did bring up ranking, i hear that they will reset rankings after world cup. Wonder how accurate the current ranking is to begin with. If you ask me, AFG is well above SL/WI in ODI but ranking shows they are below them. Do you agree?
 
RainMan_ said:
Anybody who follows cricket regularly will agree with me regarding the fact that BD is certainly the second best team in from Asia, especially in ODIs.

BD has reached the Asia Cup final more than any other Asian teams in recent times. They should have won at least two of those finals but couldn't do so due to bad luck and biased umpiring. It means, they have been consistently performing better than most of the other Asian teams.

Whenever a tournament has been arranged involving the Asian trans only BD has outperformed Pak and SL which has made them the second best team from Asia. Furthermore, BD have beaten Pak 4/5 times straight in a row in ODIs. It clearly suggests that we r the superior team. Otherwise we wouldn't have beaten them so regularly and that too with such ease.

If we evaluate all the Asian teams, their strength and weakness, their recent performance, head to head wi/Loss in recent times then we'll see that currently BD is easily the second best Asian team.
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Bangladesh is good in asia but pakistan will beat u 9/10 times outside asia where ur bowlers won't be able to do much.
 
light said:
Why even bring india in this discussion. We are way above any of the asian team. OP's thread is about second best. Difference of second best v best is a huge difference here. Anyways, So let's get into the real discussion. Pakistan is not the second best team in asia (ODI). BD/SL are bottom feeders in test. In t20, below afg. Also since you did bring up ranking, i hear that they will reset rankings after world cup. Wonder how accurate the current ranking is to begin with. If you ask me, AFG is well above SL/WI in ODI but ranking shows they are below them. Do you agree?
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How is Afghanistan above Sri Lanka and West Indiea in rankings? Any evidence to back that statement?
 
jeeteshssaxena said:
Bangladesh is good in asia but pakistan will beat u 9/10 times outside asia where ur bowlers won't be able to do much.
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It's a bit off topic, but you are completely wrong here - for ODIs. Let me explain why -

In Test matches, you need penetrative bowlers, hence what our spinners are doing at home, won't be able to do anything remotely close outside turner, hence in Test matches it's really dificult for us to compete outside Asia. Last year in NZ & SAF, batsmen did much more than expectation, but both hosts simply blew our bowling.

ODI is about limiting your opponents in a given context and low scoring or helpful bowling condition actually helps the weaker bowling side (provided that batting is better), because it reduces the gap between bowling, while better batting technique is always handy in challenging condition.

A classic example can be IND of 1980s & 1990s - they won a WC & a B&H Mini WC in UK & AUS. The difference between PAK-IND in H2H is built on PAK's domination in batting friendly UAe & Indian wickets. Even with a far inferior attack IND actually had 3-0 in AUS, 1-0 in UK and well ahead in Toronto. I think, in only place we'll be sitting duck is those 350 per AUS hard slabs, where spinners come nicely on bat and 125Km pacers set up nicely for spanking. Even in last decade we actually won 4 active ODIs against IND, SAF, AUS & ENG in wickets where there was something for the seemers.
 
MMHS said:
It's a bit off topic, but you are completely wrong here - for ODIs. Let me explain why -

In Test matches, you need penetrative bowlers, hence what our spinners are doing at home, won't be able to do anything remotely close outside turner, hence in Test matches it's really dificult for us to compete outside Asia. Last year in NZ & SAF, batsmen did much more than expectation, but both hosts simply blew our bowling.

ODI is about limiting your opponents in a given context and low scoring or helpful bowling condition actually helps the weaker bowling side (provided that batting is better), because it reduces the gap between bowling, while better batting technique is always handy in challenging condition.

A classic example can be IND of 1980s & 1990s - they won a WC & a B&H Mini WC in UK & AUS. The difference between PAK-IND in H2H is built on PAK's domination in batting friendly UAe & Indian wickets. Even with a far inferior attack IND actually had 3-0 in AUS, 1-0 in UK and well ahead in Toronto. I think, in only place we'll be sitting duck is those 350 per AUS hard slabs, where spinners come nicely on bat and 125Km pacers set up nicely for spanking. Even in last decade we actually won 4 active ODIs against IND, SAF, AUS & ENG in wickets where there was something for the seemers.
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I understand your point but i think that in england your bowlers won't do much.
The pitches are absolute pattas with no help for off spinners. Leg spinners are quite successful there, but Bangladesh doesn't have any decent leggy.
Secondly mustafizur was totally ineffective in england(he may improve), he is your best bowler and if he fails the bowling lineup will crumble.
The ct 2017 semifinal was totally a one sided affair where we chased 290+ at loss of one wicket. (and that too in a knockout match). That performance of Bangladesh proved that they need a better bowling lineup.
Yes you have a much better batting order than pakistan but their batsman are good enough to score against your bowling lineup.
 
Usman Chadda said:
How is Afghanistan above Sri Lanka and West Indiea in rankings? Any evidence to back that statement?
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:20: Since you literally didn't read my post (read half way through most likely), i'll ignore and won't bother debating. If you feel like responding after re-reading my post again, I'll be more than happy to reply with an answer. Once again, read the original post that you quoted me on but read it this time before responding back ...
 
light said:
:20: Since you literally didn't read my post (read half way through most likely), i'll ignore and won't bother debating. If you feel like responding after re-reading my post again, I'll be more than happy to reply with an answer. Once again, read the original post that you quoted me on but read it this time before responding back ...
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I did. No evidence to suggest Afghanistan will be ranked higher than SL/WI. I'm asking you do you have any evidence to back the claim you made in your post?
 
Usman Chadda said:
I did. No evidence to suggest Afghanistan will be ranked higher than SL/WI. I'm asking you do you have any evidence to back the claim you made in your post?
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I misunderstood then, my apoligies. If you ask me, the whole ranking system is not done right. It takes data from many years and piles them up and makes team's current ranking look abnormal. A team can go from hero to zero liretally within a year or so. In the last couple of matches WI has played VS Afg, Afg won almost all of them. They won both in the qualifying round for WC. Last 4 matches that had a result, 3 were won by AFG. SL however has a better record against the Afg but they did end up playing Afg recently and got a thrashing aswell. Infact SL is going through what PAK went through a couple of years back under Azar Ali. The problem with SL I find is that one of Sanga or Mahela should have stayed back to nurture these young players. If you watch SL play these days, you'll see their players are all over the place. I still believe Sanga had one more WC left in him.
 
Didn't India lose and draw a match to the same WI side?

WI are a capable side. Apart from Roston Chase, they got a pretty dynamic side.
 
In terms of test matches it goes

India
Daylight
Pakistan
Sri Lanka
Bangladesh
Afghanistan

It's a bit of a jumble between Pakistan and Sri Lanka, but I think Pakistan has a bit more depth in their bowling especially now that Herath has retired. Bangladesh way back in the pack - don't forget they lost a test to Zimbabwe a month ago, and that they got hammered by both Sri Lanka and the West Indies earlier this year.
 
jeeteshssaxena said:
I understand your point but i think that in england your bowlers won't do much.
The pitches are absolute pattas with no help for off spinners. Leg spinners are quite successful there, but Bangladesh doesn't have any decent leggy.
Secondly mustafizur was totally ineffective in england(he may improve), he is your best bowler and if he fails the bowling lineup will crumble.
The ct 2017 semifinal was totally a one sided affair where we chased 290+ at loss of one wicket. (and that too in a knockout match). That performance of Bangladesh proved that they need a better bowling lineup.
Yes you have a much better batting order than pakistan but their batsman are good enough to score against your bowling lineup.
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Very well said, most Bangladeshis think Bangladesh have one of the best bowling attack in the world and Mashrafe is like Imran Khan. Truth be told with this bowling attack even if we put a score above 300, it will be easily chased by big teams. We don’t have any quality fast bowlers for England. I don’t see a bright 2019 World Cup for Bangladesh. We need to prepare ourselves for 2023 World Cup. I see a first round exit and a loss against Afghanistan where Afghanistan will show their dominance over us.

Also Mashrafe will be the Member of Parliament so he won’t be too motivated to play for Bangladesh. He is a big time politician.
 
Bangladesh is clearly the second best team in Asia. Had it not been for unabashed cheating by BCCI, Bangladesh would have had multiple trophies to its name.

Team that wears "Championship Mindset" wristbands are the first.

My rankings.

Pakistan
Bangladesh





India
Afghanistan
Sri Lanka
 
Lol at some people trying to mock BD here. Indian brothers , please remember that they just beat us in one and tied us in another not too long ago . Pakistani brothers, your first WC match is against Windies on a fresh( likely ultra flat) Trent bridge wicket with small boundaries. If one of their big hitters gets going, it may not be the start to the world cup the men in green would be hoping for.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
Lol at some people trying to mock BD here. Indian brothers , please remember that they just beat us in one and tied us in another not too long ago . Pakistani brothers, your first WC match is against Windies on a fresh( likely ultra flat) Trent bridge wicket with small boundaries. If one of their big hitters gets going, it may not be the start to the world cup the men in green would be hoping for.
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Windies are a very capable side. Destructive on their day
 
Nikhil_cric said:
Especially on flat pitches they will be more than a handful. Would suit them more than the sluggish Caribbean ones.
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Yes. They still need to play more sensibly and construct innings. Otherwise their results will remain mediocre. The talent is there.
 
What a fantastic team BD has become, especially in Asian conditions. I knew we sometime mocks them because of few arrogant posters but cant fault their team. I would love to see a full series of India in BD.
 
Canford Cliffs said:
What a fantastic team BD has become, especially in Asian conditions. I knew we sometime mocks them because of few arrogant posters but cant fault their team. I would love to see a full series of India in BD.
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Bangladesh will be touring India next year
 
Canford Cliffs said:
What a fantastic team BD has become, especially in Asian conditions. I knew we sometime mocks them because of few arrogant posters but cant fault their team. I would love to see a full series of India in BD.
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You just have to wait a few months.
 
Bangladesh has come a long way. I remember when teams use to batter them. Full credit goes to Tamim sakib and mushfiqur
 
light said:
I misunderstood then, my apoligies. If you ask me, the whole ranking system is not done right. It takes data from many years and piles them up and makes team's current ranking look abnormal. A team can go from hero to zero liretally within a year or so. In the last couple of matches WI has played VS Afg, Afg won almost all of them. They won both in the qualifying round for WC. Last 4 matches that had a result, 3 were won by AFG. SL however has a better record against the Afg but they did end up playing Afg recently and got a thrashing aswell. Infact SL is going through what PAK went through a couple of years back under Azar Ali. The problem with SL I find is that one of Sanga or Mahela should have stayed back to nurture these young players. If you watch SL play these days, you'll see their players are all over the place. I still believe Sanga had one more WC left in him.
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Good explanation

+

The advantage SL/WI have got over Afg in these years is that they play more against top sides whereas AFG has played more against Zim/Ire & the associates

SL/WI keep getting thrashed against Top teams yet they score more points than AFG in the ranking for odd wins because beating top team gets u more points
On the other hand even if AFG loses rare matches against Zim/Ire or the associates,they are in danger of losing points in the ranking

SL lost to Zim 2-3 at home ,same Zim which was thrashed by AFG
SL were also beaten by Scotland twice in 2 "unofficial games" last year
This year Afg thrashed them in the Asia Cup


WI were thrashed twice by AFG in the WCQ ,they were lucky to even qualify for the WC as rain helped them against the Scottish side

But it's the rare wins against top sides by them has helped them stay ahead of AFG
If AFG gets same no of opportunities as them against the top sides then they won't do worse than SL/WI

The current SL/WI side are almost at the same level as Zim/Ire/Scotland
 
Executioner said:
Definitely 2nd best in ODIs.
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the same westindies is white wash last year in uae by pakistan in odis .i know we are terrible in odis from some time but ranking does suggest it is still long way to go to reach pak level in odis

Screenshot (2).jpg
 
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Bangladesh is third best in Asia in ODI, fourth best in Asia is Tests and fifth best in Asia in T20 . Let them at least become second best in one of the formats before they can begin to make this claim. They no doubt win a few matches here and there and those matches are taken into consideration in ranking points. Despite these wins they are way off from being the second best in Asia in any format.
 
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Bangladesh_Fan said:
Pakistan hasn't won a single ODI versus Bangladesh in last four years now I believe
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last four years and played grand total of 4 odis .o.It is not about bd vs pakistan it is about second best and clearly ranking suggest who is better .

may be ranking is less relevant now because bd is 2 ranking behind pakistan in odis right?
 
It's not Bangladesh's fault Pakistan doesn't want to tour Bangladesh neither do they want to invite Bangladesh to UAE, one can only win the matches infront of you and Bangladesh has beaten Pakistan everytime in last four years in odis. The champions trophy marches has boosted Pakistan's ranking but if I remember correctly Bangladesh was well above Pakistan in rankings before that tournament began, and in recent Asia Cup Pakistan hasn't done anything to suggest they are ranked as a top 5 team
 
Ranking is based on overall performance against all other teams over last three years. Just because Bangladesh has won against Pakistan recently does not make Bangladesh a better ranked team than Pakistan. What about Bangladesh wins against other top ranked teams ? They have won less matches against top teams compared to Pakistan and that is reflected in the ICC ODI ranking (standing as well as ranking points).
 
Bangladesh_Fan said:
It's not Bangladesh's fault Pakistan doesn't want to tour Bangladesh neither do they want to invite Bangladesh to UAE, one can only win the matches infront of you and Bangladesh has beaten Pakistan everytime in last four years in odis. The champions trophy marches has boosted Pakistan's ranking but if I remember correctly Bangladesh was well above Pakistan in rankings before that tournament began, and in recent Asia Cup Pakistan hasn't done anything to suggest they are ranked as a top 5 team
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what have second best to do with pakistan vs bd ? .the ranking is correct and perfect to judge team performances .bd had a opportunity against higher rank team SA to surpass pakistan in odis by gaining good point but they were whitewash 5-0 .I remember too when bd was ranked higher than pakistan but that time ranking was relevant for bd fans which is not know as reason is obvious .We are terrible from last ten odis and still 10 points above bd that shows who much 10 point gab means
 
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The ODI series in Bangladesh after the 2015 WC was a Pakistan side ranked 8th/9th and in transition. The team was left in a mess by Misbah and Waqar. That time there was no Hasan Ali and Fakhar who were the two most instrumental players in Pakistan's CT success last year.

Bangladesh were in a purple patch at the time - beating England to secure a QF spot, where they gave India a good game. Since the purple patch has come to an end and they have not really got better as evident from their beatings from Afghanistan in half of the ODIs and every T20I games played. Pakistan have got slightly better after the launch of PSL in 2016 finding Fakhar, Hasan Ali and etc. Some will be quick to dismiss the CT a fluke however without these two there would have got knocked out of the group stage. The real fluke of that CT was Bangladesh reaching semis and we saw what happened when they faced India. If Bangladesh are genuinely second best Asian side (and thus better than Pakistan) ask the Indian fans who they would rather face in a knockout game? They would surely fancy their chances more against a team that lacks quality pace bowlers and is consistent in choking in knockout matches where it really counts.

The Asia cup loss is down to incompetent selections from Inzy and shoddy captaincy from Sarfraz. Bangladesh has only beaten Pakistan in an ICC event once in the most suspicious of circumstances against an ATG Pakistan outfit and then had to wait 16 years to hit their purple patch and finally end the run of defeats in accordance to the laws of probability.

If Bangladesh beat Pakistan in the WC (which is when I envisage they'll play next) and get knocked out of the first round, I'll be the first to admit Bangladesh > Pakistan. Until then the team must be able to show it's superiority, getting beat by Zimbabwe in a home test, mauled by Afghans in T20Is shows that you're near minnow level and the lack of progress since the commencement of their test status.

Speaking of the longer format of the game, I didn't feel it was necessary to focus on this format since Bangladesh got beaten at home by a minnow Zimbabwe side and possess a poor pace attack. Preparing cracked/doctored pitches will not convince me they're improving.

Bangladesh should be more concerned with Afghanistan's rise in cricket since they've already surpassed them in T20Is, in ODIs there isn't much between them, after the 2023 WC in India, we will see Afghans shift past them by then (if not sooner). In tests I can see them falling behind them in the more distant future.
 
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topspin said:
The ODI series in Bangladesh after the 2015 WC was a Pakistan side ranked 8th/9th and in transition. The team was left in a mess by Misbah and Waqar. That time there was no Hasan Ali and Fakhar who were the two most instrumental players in Pakistan's CT success last year.

Bangladesh were in a purple patch at the time - beating England to secure a QF spot, where they gave India a good game. Since the purple patch has come to an end and they have not really got better as evident from their beatings from Afghanistan in half of the ODIs and every T20I games played. Pakistan have got slightly better after the launch of PSL in 2016 finding Fakhar, Hasan Ali and etc. Some will be quick to dismiss the CT a fluke however without these two there would have got knocked out of the group stage. The real fluke of that CT was Bangladesh reaching semis and we saw what happened when they faced India. If Bangladesh are genuinely second best Asian side (and thus better than Pakistan) ask the Indian fans who they would rather face in a knockout game? They would surely fancy their chances more against a team that lacks quality pace bowlers and is consistent in choking in knockout matches where it really counts.

The Asia cup loss is down to incompetent selections from Inzy and shoddy captaincy from Sarfraz. Bangladesh has only beaten Pakistan in an ICC event once in the most suspicious of circumstances against an ATG Pakistan outfit and then had to wait 16 years to hit their purple patch and finally end the run of defeats in accordance to the laws of probability.

If Bangladesh beat Pakistan in the WC (which is when I envisage they'll play next) and get knocked out of the first round, I'll be the first to admit Bangladesh > Pakistan. Until then the team must be able to show it's superiority, getting beat by Zimbabwe in a home test, mauled by Afghans in T20Is shows that you're near minnow level and the lack of progress since the commencement of their test status.

Speaking of the longer format of the game, I didn't feel it was necessary to focus on this format since Bangladesh got beaten at home by a minnow Zimbabwe side and possess a poor pace attack. Preparing cracked/doctored pitches will not convince me they're improving.

Bangladesh should be more concerned with Afghanistan's rise in cricket since they've already surpassed them in T20Is, in ODIs there isn't much between them, after the 2023 WC in India, we will see Afghans shift past them by then (if not sooner). In tests I can see them falling behind them in the more distant future.
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That should be the end of this thread.
 
topspin said:
If Bangladesh are genuinely second best Asian side (and thus better than Pakistan) ask the Indian fans who they would rather face in a knockout game? They would surely fancy their chances more against a team that lacks quality pace bowlers and is consistent in choking in knockout matches where it really counts.
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Bangladesh, I don't even need to think twice.
 
Rankings are useless in most cases...
As per Fifa ranking Modric is the best in the world while Messi is 5th....

The best judge is always a bilareral series in a neutral turf... Dubai/Abu Dhabi can be a great location for a neutral bi-lateral series.
 
topspin said:
The ODI series in Bangladesh after the 2015 WC was a Pakistan side ranked 8th/9th and in transition. The team was left in a mess by Misbah and Waqar. That time there was no Hasan Ali and Fakhar who were the two most instrumental players in Pakistan's CT success last year.

Bangladesh were in a purple patch at the time - beating England to secure a QF spot, where they gave India a good game. Since the purple patch has come to an end and they have not really got better as evident from their beatings from Afghanistan in half of the ODIs and every T20I games played. Pakistan have got slightly better after the launch of PSL in 2016 finding Fakhar, Hasan Ali and etc. Some will be quick to dismiss the CT a fluke however without these two there would have got knocked out of the group stage. The real fluke of that CT was Bangladesh reaching semis and we saw what happened when they faced India. If Bangladesh are genuinely second best Asian side (and thus better than Pakistan) ask the Indian fans who they would rather face in a knockout game? They would surely fancy their chances more against a team that lacks quality pace bowlers and is consistent in choking in knockout matches where it really counts.

The Asia cup loss is down to incompetent selections from Inzy and shoddy captaincy from Sarfraz. Bangladesh has only beaten Pakistan in an ICC event once in the most suspicious of circumstances against an ATG Pakistan outfit and then had to wait 16 years to hit their purple patch and finally end the run of defeats in accordance to the laws of probability.

If Bangladesh beat Pakistan in the WC (which is when I envisage they'll play next) and get knocked out of the first round, I'll be the first to admit Bangladesh > Pakistan. Until then the team must be able to show it's superiority, getting beat by Zimbabwe in a home test, mauled by Afghans in T20Is shows that you're near minnow level and the lack of progress since the commencement of their test status.

Speaking of the longer format of the game, I didn't feel it was necessary to focus on this format since Bangladesh got beaten at home by a minnow Zimbabwe side and possess a poor pace attack. Preparing cracked/doctored pitches will not convince me they're improving.

Bangladesh should be more concerned with Afghanistan's rise in cricket since they've already surpassed them in T20Is, in ODIs there isn't much between them, after the 2023 WC in India, we will see Afghans shift past them by then (if not sooner). In tests I can see them falling behind them in the more distant future.
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Here is what I get from your post:
1) BD wins are purely due to purple patch or fluke.

2) Pak can only lose to BD due to Pak poor form, selection, or fluke.

3) There isnt much difference between BD and Afg in ODIs even though there is +25 rating difference. Meanwhile there is a huge gap between BD and Pak even though there is only +9 or +10 rating difference.
 
Bangladesh can become better than Pakistan only if they earn more points than Pakistan in ICC ranking (ODI/ tests/T20). If Bangladesh wins a match against Pakistan then Bangladesh gains points and Pakistan loses point. Unless the point gained by Bangladesh takes their points tally above Pakistan, they will continue to remain below Pakistan. How difficult is it to understand ?

Bangladesh will need to beat higher ranked teams consistently to gain points. At present, points earned by Bangladesh by winning over Pakistan is lost by getting soundly thrashed by South Africa and other higher ranked teams, so Bangladesh remains below Pakistan in the points tally.
 
Was having this discussion on the match-thread. When Bangladesh were convincingly beating WI, there was hardly any interest from neutral fans like there was in the match where Bangladesh "narrowly" lost.

It tells you that people aren't surprised by us being dominant in some matches anymore. On the other hand, it is good to see that people jump on Bangladesh everytime the team doesn't do well.
 
Bangldesh are at least making progress. What progress are we making in tests? In ODIs we are still selecting TTFs and misfits for LO cricket.
 
topspin said:
.

Bangladesh should be more concerned with Afghanistan's rise in cricket since they've already surpassed them in T20Is, in ODIs there isn't much between them, after the 2023 WC in India, we will see Afghans shift past them by then (if not sooner). In tests I can see them falling behind them in the more distant future.
Click to expand...

Afghanistan won't be a consistent threat to Bangladesh in either of real formats of the game (T20s are a different story but also the most unimportant format) until they find some batsman. Until that point, Afghanistan are nothing more than a poor man's Pakistan.
 
There is no doubt that BD is an improving team in world cricket. Teams consider them seriously and they have beaten Pakistan in the recent teams. They also took India to the brink in many games before losing. Pakistan are unique as they have always been. They can destroy anybody on their day and can flop miserably too. At this point I'd say BD are more consistent than Pak but are also prone to losses to minnows occasionally. All formats considered, Pakistan are feared more and have more capability to beat good teams and hence the no.2 over all team in Asia. If only ODIs are considered, Pakistan are in decline and BD will edge them for the No.2 spot.
 
Executioner said:
Was having this discussion on the match-thread. When Bangladesh were convincingly beating WI, there was hardly any interest from neutral fans like there was in the match where Bangladesh "narrowly" lost.

It tells you that people aren't surprised by us being dominant in some matches anymore. On the other hand, it is good to see that people jump on Bangladesh everytime the team doesn't do well.
Click to expand...

Because if you're a good team, then you're supposed to beat WI at home convincingly. Pakistan crushed WI 3-0 at home last time. Better teams have higher standards.
 
Bangladesh will have a hard time winning matches in England, as Mashrafe will be elected Member of Parliament, his pace will drop from 110 kph to 100 kph, we will really miss his extra 10 kph.
 
Rayyman said:
Because if you're a good team, then you're supposed to beat WI at home convincingly. Pakistan crushed WI 3-0 at home last time. Better teams have higher standards.
Click to expand...

The same WI side won and drew a match against India, does that mean India are inferior to Pakistan or Bangladesh?

The current WI side has been playing together for a while. They will get better.
 
BaankeJi said:
No way. Pakistan and Sri Lanka are better.
Click to expand...

Debating about pakistan, well that makes sense and valid points can be argued but when you say Sri Lanka, bro your whole statement becomes invalid and you open yourself to some major takedown by a bdeshi fan. Why you do this to yourself bro? SL is by far the worst out of the 4 big ones from asia atm. Gone are the days of Sanga and Co. We are left with Angelo ... that should say alot.
 
Let Bdesh atleast once give a performance even close to what Lankans gave in this first test match against NZ, before they dream of being better than Lankans. Lanka may not be as good as it used to be during Jayasurya or Sangakara days, but they can still come up with performances like these.
 
light said:
Debating about pakistan, well that makes sense and valid points can be argued but when you say Sri Lanka, bro your whole statement becomes invalid and you open yourself to some major takedown by a bdeshi fan. Why you do this to yourself bro? SL is by far the worst out of the 4 big ones from asia atm. Gone are the days of Sanga and Co. We are left with Angelo ... that should say alot.
Click to expand...

Hope you got your answer.
 
BDfanforever said:
Here is what I get from your post:
1) BD wins are purely due to purple patch or fluke.

2) Pak can only lose to BD due to Pak poor form, selection, or fluke.

3) There isnt much difference between BD and Afg in ODIs even though there is +25 rating difference. Meanwhile there is a huge gap between BD and Pak even though there is only +9 or +10 rating difference.
Click to expand...

Sorry for the late reply. This somehow was missed from all the notifications.

1. No not just Bangladesh - Pakistan also had a purple patch during the CT. Difference is when Pakistan is on a roll they can beat anyone on their day and win the odd trophy. Tigers are semi-finalists at best since they have yet to reach an ICC tournament final.

2. Lets breakdown this down:

1999 WC - Fixed against an ATG ODI WC finalist. This was done to aid Bangladesh's quest for test status and that's an open secret. Since then it took your side 16 years to win just one game against Pakistan.

2015 tour: Bangladesh were still in the purple patch phase given they also beat superior sides in India and SA that year. Pakistan on the other hand was left in a mess by the duo of Misbah/Waqar and was in a transition.

2018 Asian Cup: Poor captaincy allowed Bangladesh to post a competitive total which should have been easily chased down and our CT winners (Hasan Ali + Fakhar Zaman) were off colour that day. This tournament was among the 3 worst performances along with the 2007 WC and 2013 CT. So I wouldn't judge Pakistan's calibre on either the CT last year and the Asia cup few months back in isolation. It is about rankings and who can win trophies.

3) The gap is bigger due to Afghanistan's infancy in the international circuit however they're progress has been nothing short of remarkable and they will continue to close the gap before they inevitably jump ahead.

As for Bangladesh and Pakistan points difference, you were ahead 3 years ago but have let that lead slip out of your hands, so I can only see the gap growing gradually since the progress of the Tigers has been awful to say the least.

2019 WC will be a good time to see where each team stands since everyone has to play against each other with a ranking table for everyone to see at the end of group stage. Bangladesh at best will probably finish 6th.
 
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Pakistan have been equally comparative against Sa in odi series .2-2 is result so far .

This is how bd performed against same Sa last year .one sided odi series .

20190127_181422.jpg
 
Last edited:
Notice not only the whitewash but the margin of the defeats, yet according to most Bangladesh posters they're better than Pakistan in ODIs and hence the second best Asian ODI team. According to [MENTION=146500]RainMan_[/MENTION] they're becoming a powerhouse in world cricket :rp .

As I've said before they need to worry more about Afghanistan, given the number of defeats they've faced against them in LOIs. The gap between these two sides continues to narrow. It's time to close this thread and turn our attention to this discussion.
 
saeed5646 said:
Pakistan have been equally comparative against Sa in odi series .2-2 is result so far .

This is how bd performed against same Sa last year .one sided odi series .

View attachment 87399
Click to expand...

What's the point of bumping this scores? Now, if a BD poster posts last 4 BD-PAK scorecard, you'll call foul.
 
MMHS said:
What's the point of bumping this scores? Now, if a BD poster posts last 4 BD-PAK scorecard, you'll call foul.
Click to expand...

Report my post😂

I have said nothing wrong comparing last odi series of both team in Sa
 
MMHS said:
What's the point of bumping this scores? Now, if a BD poster posts last 4 BD-PAK scorecard, you'll call foul.
Click to expand...
I remember one of your posts right after the BD-Pak game in Asia Cup. It will be bumped, this team certainly has the talent to give some of us that opportunity.

Just hope it doesn't get bumped this Wednesday.
 
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