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Is Imran Khan Punjabi or Pathan?

moghul

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I'm Punjabi and my wife is Pathan. She says IK is Niazi Pathan , I say he was born and raised in Lahore also his ancestors , so he is Punjabi, wonder who is correct ?
 
Niazis are Pathan by blood but their language changed. Imran's mother was a Pathan and father was a Niazi. Imran can speak Punjabi fluently
 
Niazis are ethnic Pashtuns.

Culturally and linguistically they don't have too much in common with pashtuns as they lived in Punjab for generations.

But that also doesn't make then punjabi in ethnic terms.

A white person can be born in lahore and speak fluent punjabi but that doesn't make him punjabi ethnically.
 
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Culturally and linguistically they don't have too much in common with pashtuns as they lived in Punjab for generations.

But that also doesn't make then punjabi in ethnic terms.

A white person can be born in lahore and speak fluent punjabi but that doesn't make him punjabi ethnically.

Race etc is all man made. There is no such thing as ethnic pashtuns and I say this is a Pashtun myself.

I know people make a big deal of it but if you trace it back eventually even pashtuns are no ethnic pashtuns same for punjabis
 
Race etc is all man made. There is no such thing as ethnic pashtuns and I say this is a Pashtun myself.

I know people make a big deal of it but if you trace it back eventually even pashtuns are no ethnic pashtuns same for punjabis

Well if you trace it back far enough we all came from Adam and Eve for the religious out there. Or for the atheists out there, humans evolved from apes.

But that isnt how ethnicity is defined in this day and age.
 
Do people still care about such things? Whether he is Pashtun or Punjabi wouldn't change who he was or who he is.
 
Do people still care about such things? Whether he is Pashtun or Punjabi wouldn't change who he was or who he is.

No! but nothing wrong in discussing his ethnic back ground as long as nothing disrespectful is said.

Lets not try to turn everything in to race, beliefs, or nationality.
 
No! but nothing wrong in discussing his ethnic back ground as long as nothing disrespectful is said.

Lets not try to turn everything in to race, beliefs, or nationality.

Then why discuss it at all? And what's even the objective or purpose of having such discussions?
 
why not?

Aren't you proud of your background and where you came from?

Why should one feel proud or ashamed of their ethnicity? As far as I am concerned, race or ethnicity doesn't tell you anything about a person. You cannot infer whether a person is good natured or rude; lazy or hard-working; kind or unkind, among many other things, based on their ethnicity.
 
[MENTION=22846]Nostalgic[/MENTION] bhai, where are you when people need you?
 
Why should one feel proud or ashamed of their ethnicity? As far as I am concerned, race or ethnicity doesn't tell you anything about a person. You cannot infer whether a person is good natured or rude; lazy or hard-working; kind or unkind, among many other things, based on their ethnicity.

You are trying to create a controversy when there isn't any.
 
[MENTION=22846]Nostalgic[/MENTION] bhai, where are you when people need you?

Hiding in plain sight, yet forever ready at your beck and call...

To answer the question, Imran Khan is both Punjabi and Pashtun. There are any number of tribes and clans in Western Punjab who are of Pashtun descent but “Punjabized,” i.e. having adopted Punjabi language and culture, or at least the variants practiced in Western Punjab, over the centuries since they settled in those regions or since the regions they were in were incorporated into the political entity known as Punjab. The Niazis of Mianwali/Esakhel and thereabouts are one of the foremost examples of Punjabi Pashtuns.
 
A couple of additional points: traditionally, and this will be somewhat controversial and not something everyone will agree with today (see @Badaha’s post in this thread), Pashtun identity was primarily based on the belief of descent from a common ancestor, even though there were exceptions to this. Punjabi origin is more geographic and cultural: ethnic rather than, and I hate to use the word, racial. Therefore it’s perfectly possible to be both Pashtun and Punjabi, such as Imran Khan.

Also we had an argument a few months back whether we would call such an example a Punjabi Pashtun or a Pashtun Punjabi. There can be arguments for either: whether Punjabi would be the primary designator of identity and Pashtun the adjective or modifier, or whether it should be the other way round.
 
Nothing wrong with being proud of your ethnicity, and it only makes a nation strong and not weaker. Here in USA, they all enjoy and are proud of their Irish, Italian, German, African background and ethnicity. Pakistanis are Pathans, Punjabi, Sindhi, Baluchi and from some other ethnic backgrounds, its just add more colors and creates versatility to a nation.
 
Well if you trace it back far enough we all came from Adam and Eve for the religious out there. Or for the atheists out there, humans evolved from apes.

But that isnt how ethnicity is defined in this day and age.

Ethnicity is not race.
 
A couple of additional points: traditionally, and this will be somewhat controversial and not something everyone will agree with today (see @Badaha’s post in this thread), Pashtun identity was primarily based on the belief of descent from a common ancestor, even though there were exceptions to this. Punjabi origin is more geographic and cultural: ethnic rather than, and I hate to use the word, racial. Therefore it’s perfectly possible to be both Pashtun and Punjabi, such as Imran Khan.

Also we had an argument a few months back whether we would call such an example a Punjabi Pashtun or a Pashtun Punjabi. There can be arguments for either: whether Punjabi would be the primary designator of identity and Pashtun the adjective or modifier, or whether it should be the other way round.

I've read about common ancestoral belief once somewhere but need to find it again.

So according to you are Sethis (who have been living in central Peshawar for centuries ) pashtuns? Just curious to know what you think.
 
Nothing wrong with being proud of your ethnicity, and it only makes a nation strong and not weaker. Here in USA, they all enjoy and are proud of their Irish, Italian, German, African background and ethnicity. Pakistanis are Pathans, Punjabi, Sindhi, Baluchi and from some other ethnic backgrounds, its just add more colors and creates versatility to a nation.


I agree. Just keep it civil and cut out the jokes.
 
I've read about common ancestoral belief once somewhere but need to find it again.

So according to you are Sethis (who have been living in central Peshawar for centuries ) pashtuns? Just curious to know what you think.

Syeds you mean? Or are there Sethis living in the Peshawar valley? Not sure if autocorrect is to blame here.

I’ll defer to you on whether they are considered Pashtuns today, but I believe historically they were considered Pashtuns culturally while still distinct, since they did not descend from the mythical Qais Abdul Rashid. Like I said, there were exceptions, but generally speaking the various tribes had a belief in a common descent, which of course doesn’t really stand up to historical scrutiny since its so simplified and history never is: Pashtuns actually have quite diverse origins. The point is though that the perception was there, but for Punjabis there wasn’t even a semblance of common descent in the myths and folk beliefs and whatnot.
 
P.S. [MENTION=74419]Badsha[/MENTION], Olaf Caroe’s The Pathans has a good introduction to the common descent belief that was prevalent at the time: the division of the tribes and clans into two loose confederacies of Durranis and Ghilzais, the former generally speaking the southern Pashto dialect and the latter generally speaking the northern Pakhto dialect. He also makes a case for Pathan being an actual exclusive designator of the Eastern tribes and clans rather than a term that’s somewhat pejorative compared to the more proper Pashtun/Pakhtun, and for the Eastern tribes falling somewhat outside of the Durrani-Ghilzai split and claiming descent from a third child of the mythical Qais Abdul Rashid.

I read this book long ago so my memory may be failing me, and I’ve actually managed to enrage some of my Pashtun friends years ago by quoting it since they consider it horribly flawed and dated and Caroe being hell bent on creating a separate Pathan identity conveniently falling within Pakistan’s borders almost exclusively. That said, since you had mentioned hearing of the common descent theory, I thought I would mention it in case you were interested.
 
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I think Pashto speaking Pakhtuns are not too eager to consider Niazis as Pakhtuns.
 
I think Pashto speaking Pakhtuns are not too eager to consider Niazis as Pakhtuns.

All Niazis? There are still Niazis in Eastern Afghanistan who still speak Pashto.

Also I wonder if they differentiate between Niazis from Mianwali and it’s environs in Western Punjab on the one hand and the ones who had long settled in Eastern (Indian) Punjab and later immigrated to our side of Punjab after partition. Two examples being Imran Khan and Munir Niazi: I would contend that the latter was more Punjabi than Imran because his family was based in East Punjab whereas in Imran’s case, his home region is right across the border from KP.
 
Should be pathan, Niazis are considered pathan, however i think they fall on the seraiki belt.
 
He is a Punjabi of Pathan descent. What alot of people dont realize is that there are millions of Punjabis and Sindhis of Pathan and Baloch heritage. You can tell usually by their surname.

Jahangir Tarenn - Punjabi Pathan
Shireen Mazari - Punjabi Baloch
Bilawal Zardari - Sindhi Baloch
Agha Siraj Durrani - Sindhi Pathan

These people cant for the most part speak Pashto or Balochi, they have adopted the culture of the area they live in, and their heritage is usually just in the male line as their has obviously been intermarriage going on for centuries.

And this goes for India too, alot of people of pathan heritage who live there.
 
Niazis are Pathan by blood but their language changed. Imran's mother was a Pathan and father was a Niazi. Imran can speak Punjabi fluently

He can’t speak Pashtu but ethnically he is pathan
 
He's a Pashtun by blood and heritage and a Punjabi or Seraiki by language.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathans_of_Punjab

Punjab is very diverse, many people have ancestors from different parts of the subcontinent, Imran Khan is who you'd call a Punjabi-Pathan. Some Punjabis have Baloch ancestry and some of us have Kashmiri ancestry.
 
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Niazis are Pathan by blood but their language changed. Imran's mother was a Pathan and father was a Niazi. Imran can speak Punjabi fluently

loool

Niazi is a pashtun tribe so saying his "mother is pathan and dad is a niazi" is contradictory and implies they're from two different ethnic groups when they're not. That's like saying Shahid Afridi isn't a pathan but an "Afridi".
 
loool

Niazi is a pashtun tribe so saying his "mother is pathan and dad is a niazi" is contradictory and implies they're from two different ethnic groups when they're not. That's like saying Shahid Afridi isn't a pathan but an "Afridi".

Sorry i meant to say "from a Pathan family with links in Waziristan". Her mother family moved from East Pakistan. IK was always very close to her maternal family that's one of the reason he ended up becoming a cricketer.
 
Seriously? Why does that even matter? IMO, as long as Imran Khan represents our faith and country sincerely, works hard towards eradicating corruption and nepotism - thatÂ’s what matters. As Pakistanis we need to evolve into a more inclusive society, move away from a provincial mindset, and rise above archaic “braderi” issues.

In a progressive, educated and enlightened society, which I sincerely hope Pakistan can evolve into does it really matter about where our ethnic roots are from? Remember what our nationÂ’s visionary Founding Father, Mohammed Ali Jinnah tried to instill in our nation and its citizenry:

[/B]”With faith, discipline and selfless devotion to duty, there is nothing worthwhile that you cannot achieve. You may belong to any religion cast or creed - that has nothing to do with the business of the State.”
[/B]
 
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Sorry i meant to say "from a Pathan family with links in Waziristan". Her mother family moved from East Pakistan. IK was always very close to her maternal family that's one of the reason he ended up becoming a cricketer.

Okay, I think you mean east punjab.
 
Isn't Misbah actually related to him like share a great grandfather or sometjing
 
why not?

Aren't you proud of your background and where you came from?

Why would you be proud of your background or where you came from when you've done nothing whatsoever to achieve it. What sort of backward thinking is this?
 
I'm Punjabi and my wife is Pathan. She says IK is Niazi Pathan , I say he was born and raised in Lahore also his ancestors , so he is Punjabi, wonder who is correct ?

Please learn the difference between ethnicity and nationality please.

Ethnically he is Pashtun. He was born in Punjab, so that makes him a resident of Punjab only.
 
It always makes me laugh just how confused Pakistanis are when it comes to knowing who they are. You people have such a hard time differentiating nationality, ethnicity, religion and languages from one another. Talk about a sad state of confusion.

I'm going to give you a quick 101 onto how to classify people living in Pakistan.

By nationality
Pakistani

By ethnicity
Balti
Baloch
Brahui
Burusho
Hazara
Kalash
Kashmiri
Kho
Muhajir
Pashtun
Punjabi
Shina
Siddi
Sindhi
Tajik
Wakhi

By language
Aer
Badeshi
Bagri
Balochi
Balti
Bateri
Brahui
Burushaski
Chilisso
Dari
Dameli
Dehwari
Dogri
Domaaki
Gawar-Bati
Gowro
Gujari
Hazaragi
Hindko
Jadgali
Kashmiri
Khetrani
Kalami
Kalasha-mun
Kalkoti
Kamviri
Khowar
Kohistani
Kundal
Mankiyali
Munji
Memoni
Mewari
Ormuri
Pahari-Pothwari
Pashto
Purgi
Punjabi
Saraiki
Shahi
Shina
Sindhi
Torwali
Ushoji
Wazir
Wanetsi
Wakhi
Yidgha


Pashtuns are an ethnicity. They mostly speak Pashto, but also Balochi, Hindko, Urdu and Dari.

Baloch are an ethnicity. In Ranjanpur, they are fluent in Punjabi language since they have lived their for hundreds of years.

Stop confusing ethnicity with language please.
 
It always makes me laugh just how confused Pakistanis are when it comes to knowing who they are. You people have such a hard time differentiating nationality, ethnicity, religion and languages from one another. Talk about a sad state of confusion.

I'm going to give you a quick 101 onto how to classify people living in Pakistan.

By nationality
Pakistani

By ethnicity
Balti
Baloch
Brahui
Burusho
Hazara
Kalash
Kashmiri
Kho
Muhajir
Pashtun
Punjabi
Shina
Siddi
Sindhi
Tajik
Wakhi

By language
Aer
Badeshi
Bagri
Balochi
Balti
Bateri
Brahui
Burushaski
Chilisso
Dari
Dameli
Dehwari
Dogri
Domaaki
Gawar-Bati
Gowro
Gujari
Hazaragi
Hindko
Jadgali
Kashmiri
Khetrani
Kalami
Kalasha-mun
Kalkoti
Kamviri
Khowar
Kohistani
Kundal
Mankiyali
Munji
Memoni
Mewari
Ormuri
Pahari-Pothwari
Pashto
Purgi
Punjabi
Saraiki
Shahi
Shina
Sindhi
Torwali
Ushoji
Wazir
Wanetsi
Wakhi
Yidgha


Pashtuns are an ethnicity. They mostly speak Pashto, but also Balochi, Hindko, Urdu and Dari.

Baloch are an ethnicity. In Ranjanpur, they are fluent in Punjabi language since they have lived their for hundreds of years.

Stop confusing ethnicity with language please.

Miracle of google, it makes you an "expert" in 3 minutes.
 
Well if you trace it back far enough we all came from Adam and Eve for the religious out there. <b>Or for the atheists out there, humans evolved from apes.</b>

But that isnt how ethnicity is defined in this day and age.

Common misconception about evolution. It does not say "humans evolved from apes", it says "humans and apes evolved from a common ancestor".

If you go back a few billion years, all living creatures came from LUCA.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_universal_common_ancestor
 
It always makes me laugh just how confused Pakistanis are when it comes to knowing who they are. You people have such a hard time differentiating nationality, ethnicity, religion and languages from one another. Talk about a sad state of confusion.

I'm going to give you a quick 101 onto how to classify people living in Pakistan.

By nationality
Pakistani

By ethnicity
Balti
Baloch
Brahui
Burusho
Hazara
Kalash
Kashmiri
Kho
Muhajir
Pashtun
Punjabi
Shina
Siddi
Sindhi
Tajik
Wakhi

By language
Aer
Badeshi
Bagri
Balochi
Balti
Bateri
Brahui
Burushaski
Chilisso
Dari
Dameli
Dehwari
Dogri
Domaaki
Gawar-Bati
Gowro
Gujari
Hazaragi
Hindko
Jadgali
Kashmiri
Khetrani
Kalami
Kalasha-mun
Kalkoti
Kamviri
Khowar
Kohistani
Kundal
Mankiyali
Munji
Memoni
Mewari
Ormuri
Pahari-Pothwari
Pashto
Purgi
Punjabi
Saraiki
Shahi
Shina
Sindhi
Torwali
Ushoji
Wazir
Wanetsi
Wakhi
Yidgha


Pashtuns are an ethnicity. They mostly speak Pashto, but also Balochi, Hindko, Urdu and Dari.

Baloch are an ethnicity. In Ranjanpur, they are fluent in Punjabi language since they have lived their for hundreds of years.

Stop confusing ethnicity with language please.

Muhajir isn't really an ethnicity.
 
Muhajir isn't really an ethnicity.

Your right.

The term muhajir literally translates to immigrant or refugee. The people who migrated from india to pakistan in 1947 were called muhajirs either to describe them as a group, or possibly in derogatory terms.

Specifically the ones that migrated to Karachi, whom we also call urdu speakers took the term muhajir identified themselves with it.

Even though there were many muslim punjabis that migrated to pakistan's Punjab, they do not refer themselves as muhajirs.

The muhajirs or urdu speakers in Karachi come from various ethnicities. Their forefathers migrated from Delhi, U.P., etc..

So yes the term muhajir is not an ethnic term.
 
He identifies himself as Pathan - I am sure, I have read somewhere (may be All-round view), he wrote that he was raised in a Pathan style family and his elder sister were quite funny regarding his face (facial look) & appearance. Wiki also identifies him being raised in a Pashtun family. Also, I have seen few Pashtuns - each one is fluent in Urdu and often in Punjabi as well, but I have met lot more Punjabis - hardly anyone can speak Pashtun. My sample could be biased, but this gives a clue that a Khan fluent in Pashtun & Punjabi is probably a Pathan than Punjabi. Another clue is, Imran's nose is not like the Punjabi's (majority), rather like Afghans and his eyes are definitely like the Afghans (smaller).

This is what is written at Wiki (Not a reliable source, but indicative enough) -

Khan was born in Lahore on 5 October 1952.[9] Some reports suggest he was born on 25 November 1952.[32][33][34][35] It was reported that 25 November was wrongly mentioned by Pakistan Cricket Board officials on his passport.[9] He is the only son of Ikramullah Khan Niazi, a civil engineer, and his wife Shaukat Khanum, and has four sisters.[36] Long settled in Mianwali in northwestern Punjab, his paternal family are of Pashtun ethnicity and belong to the Niazi tribe,[37][38] and one of his ancestors, Haibat Khan Niazi, in the 16th century, "was one of Sher Shah Suri's leading generals, as well as being the governor of Punjab."[39] Khan's mother hailed from the Pashtun tribe of Burki, which had produced several successful cricketers in Pakistan's history,[36] including his cousins Javed Burki and Majid Khan.[37] Maternally, Khan is also a descendant of the Sufi warrior-poet and inventor of the Pashto alphabet, Pir Roshan, who hailed from his maternal family's ancestral Kaniguram town located in South Waziristan in the tribal areas of northwest Pakistan.[40] His maternal family was based in Basti Danishmanda, Jalandhar, British India for about 600 years.[41][42]

And, this is what regarding his family -

The family of Imran Khan, the current Prime Minister of Pakistan and former captain of the Pakistan cricket team, is the current First Family of Pakistan. It includes immediate family members and distant relatives from both his paternal and maternal sides. Khan was born on 5 October 1952 in Lahore to father Ikramullah Khan Niazi, a civil engineer, and mother Shaukat Khanum. [1] He grew up as the only son in the family, with four sisters. The family are ethnically of Pashtun origin. Paternally, Khan belongs to the Niazi Pashtun tribe which has long been settled in Mianwali in northwestern Punjab.[2] Khan's mother hailed from the Burki Pashtun tribe settled in Malerkotla (Punjab), which emigrated a few centuries ago from South Waziristan in the tribal areas of northwest Pakistan.[1] Khan's maternal family has produced several great cricketers, the most prominent of whom are Javed Burki and Majid Khan.[2]

From 1995 to 2004, Imran Khan was married to Jemima Goldsmith, a British socialite turned writer and activist, and member of the influential Goldschmidt family of England. They have two sons from the marriage, Sulaiman Isa Khan (born 1996) and Kasim Khan (born 1999). The marriage ended amicably in divorce in 2004. In early 2015, Khan announced his marriage to the British Pakistani journalist Reham Khan. The marriage lasted nine months and ended in divorce on 30 October 2015.[3] In 2018, he married Bushra Maneka, who was previously his spiritual mentor.[4]
 
He identifies himself as Pathan - I am sure, I have read somewhere (may be All-round view), he wrote that he was raised in a Pathan style family and his elder sister were quite funny regarding his face (facial look) & appearance. Wiki also identifies him being raised in a Pashtun family. Also, I have seen few Pashtuns - each one is fluent in Urdu and often in Punjabi as well, but I have met lot more Punjabis - hardly anyone can speak Pashtun. My sample could be biased, but this gives a clue that a Khan fluent in Pashtun & Punjabi is probably a Pathan than Punjabi. Another clue is, Imran's nose is not like the Punjabi's (majority), rather like Afghans and his eyes are definitely like the Afghans (smaller).

This is what is written at Wiki (Not a reliable source, but indicative enough) -

Khan was born in Lahore on 5 October 1952.[9] Some reports suggest he was born on 25 November 1952.[32][33][34][35] It was reported that 25 November was wrongly mentioned by Pakistan Cricket Board officials on his passport.[9] He is the only son of Ikramullah Khan Niazi, a civil engineer, and his wife Shaukat Khanum, and has four sisters.[36] Long settled in Mianwali in northwestern Punjab, his paternal family are of Pashtun ethnicity and belong to the Niazi tribe,[37][38] and one of his ancestors, Haibat Khan Niazi, in the 16th century, "was one of Sher Shah Suri's leading generals, as well as being the governor of Punjab."[39] Khan's mother hailed from the Pashtun tribe of Burki, which had produced several successful cricketers in Pakistan's history,[36] including his cousins Javed Burki and Majid Khan.[37] Maternally, Khan is also a descendant of the Sufi warrior-poet and inventor of the Pashto alphabet, Pir Roshan, who hailed from his maternal family's ancestral Kaniguram town located in South Waziristan in the tribal areas of northwest Pakistan.[40] His maternal family was based in Basti Danishmanda, Jalandhar, British India for about 600 years.[41][42]

And, this is what regarding his family -

The family of Imran Khan, the current Prime Minister of Pakistan and former captain of the Pakistan cricket team, is the current First Family of Pakistan. It includes immediate family members and distant relatives from both his paternal and maternal sides. Khan was born on 5 October 1952 in Lahore to father Ikramullah Khan Niazi, a civil engineer, and mother Shaukat Khanum. [1] He grew up as the only son in the family, with four sisters. The family are ethnically of Pashtun origin. Paternally, Khan belongs to the Niazi Pashtun tribe which has long been settled in Mianwali in northwestern Punjab.[2] Khan's mother hailed from the Burki Pashtun tribe settled in Malerkotla (Punjab), which emigrated a few centuries ago from South Waziristan in the tribal areas of northwest Pakistan.[1] Khan's maternal family has produced several great cricketers, the most prominent of whom are Javed Burki and Majid Khan.[2]

From 1995 to 2004, Imran Khan was married to Jemima Goldsmith, a British socialite turned writer and activist, and member of the influential Goldschmidt family of England. They have two sons from the marriage, Sulaiman Isa Khan (born 1996) and Kasim Khan (born 1999). The marriage ended amicably in divorce in 2004. In early 2015, Khan announced his marriage to the British Pakistani journalist Reham Khan. The marriage lasted nine months and ended in divorce on 30 October 2015.[3] In 2018, he married Bushra Maneka, who was previously his spiritual mentor.[4]

He doesn't speak any Pashto, neither does Misbah. He looks like a Pakistani Pashtun, Afghans aren't relevant in this thread.
 
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