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Is Jasprit Bumrah a better bowler than Mohammad Asif and Mohammad Amir?

Shafikapeo said:
People are still watching this test series, appreciating, and tweeting about Bumrah's brilliance – including your own legend, Wasim Akram. It’s a testament to his undeniable talent and skill.

And yes, let’s not forget, in this era, ball tampering is far more difficult compared to the time when your legends were playing. The scrutiny and technology today leave little room for such acts, so let’s keep the comparisons fair and grounded in reality.
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That mercenary Akram never helped Pakistani cricket, sniffing around ICL and IPL, laying the platform for India's pace revolution
 
To be clear, Bumrah isn’t chucking, just as Shoaib Akhter & Malinga weren’t chuckers.

The problem is this hilarious hype of Bumrah by the Indians which is undeserved. When it’s all said and done he won’t even make it to the top 50 fast bowlers from Asia.
 
chinaman00 said:
To be clear, Bumrah isn’t chucking, just as Shoaib Akhter & Malinga weren’t chuckers.

The problem is this hilarious hype of Bumrah by the Indians which is undeserved. When it’s all said and done he won’t even make it to the top 50 fast bowlers from Asia.
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Can you list just 15 of those 50 ahead of him
 
Shafikapeo said:
People are still watching this test series, appreciating, and tweeting about Bumrah's brilliance – including your own legend, Wasim Akram. It’s a testament to his undeniable talent and skill.

And yes, let’s not forget, in this era, ball tampering is far more difficult compared to the time when your legends were playing. The scrutiny and technology today leave little room for such acts, so let’s keep the comparisons fair and grounded in reality.
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My legends? I was born and raised in England to mixed race parents. Yes one of my parents is actually English, given the reasons above, I've always been a England fan. But don't mind watching Pakistan play because of the above reasons.

Aa for Bumrahs skill set, no one's denying he's got real quality. Just doesn't sit right with me how dodgy his bowling action looks
 
sweep_shot said:
Amir has won 2 ICC trophies. Bumrah has won 1.

In terms of trophy count, Amir wins.

In terms of skills, Bumrah wins but peak Amir is not far behind.
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By your logic, does that mean the careers of South African greats are meaningless just because South Africa, apart from one Champions Trophy, hasn’t won any major ICC tournaments?

To be honest, I never really saw Amir at any so-called "peak." Perhaps you’re referring to a few standout spells, much like Anwar Ali’s famous U19 spell against India. But let’s be real—such isolated performances don’t justify a comparison. Sorry, but that argument simply doesn’t hold water.
 
aboveandbeyond said:
My legends? I was born and raised in England to mixed race parents. Yes one of my parents is actually English, given the reasons above, I've always been a England fan. But don't mind watching Pakistan play because of the above reasons.

Aa for Bumrahs skill set, no one's denying he's got real quality. Just doesn't sit right with me how dodgy his bowling action looks
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Similarly, I’ve had my doubts about Shoaib Akhtar and other Pakistani bowlers I mentioned earlier, but that doesn’t change the reality, right? A player whose action complies with ICC laws will play, and one who doesn’t will be barred. If someone has an issue, they should file a complaint with the ICC.

My problem arises when Bumrah is compared to proven cheaters, and when some overly biased fans can’t digest the comparison, they start labeling Bumrah’s action as illegal without any evidence, as if they’re all experts with PhDs in biomechanics.
 
Shafikapeo said:
Similarly, I’ve had my doubts about Shoaib Akhtar and other Pakistani bowlers I mentioned earlier, but that doesn’t change the reality, right? A player whose action complies with ICC laws will play, and one who doesn’t will be barred. If someone has an issue, they should file a complaint with the ICC.

My problem arises when Bumrah is compared to proven cheaters, and when some overly biased fans can’t digest the comparison, they start labeling Bumrah’s action as illegal without any evidence, as if they’re all experts with PhDs in biomechanics.
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As long as your evidence is your eye we can also say "Jimmy anderson has a suspect action" as it doesn't require any analysis, proof. Just eye test is enough.
 
Joginder Sharma, RP singh beat Waqar Younis and Shoaib Akhtar in ICC trophy count.
Joginder performs better in crunch situations than Waqar esp against rivals.
 
chinaman00 said:
To be clear, Bumrah isn’t chucking, just as Shoaib Akhter & Malinga weren’t chuckers.

The problem is this hilarious hype of Bumrah by the Indians which is undeserved. When it’s all said and done he won’t even make it to the top 50 fast bowlers from Asia.
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Even if he was, will bcci even care?

Idk about bumrah but personally I don't think it's chucking. However ik for fact that harbajan was a certified chucker.

His chucking and his full sleeve nonsense was even more obvious then saeed ajmal's chucking yet he never got questioned.

Azhar who's the biggest cheat in Indian history got luxury appointments in BCCI and his own Bollywood biopic.
 
mominsaigol said:
Even if he was, will bcci even care?

Idk about bumrah but personally I don't think it's chucking. However ik for fact that harbajan was a certified chucker.

His chucking and his full sleeve nonsense was even more obvious then saeed ajmal's chucking yet he never got questioned.

Azhar who's the biggest cheat in Indian history got luxury appointments in BCCI and his own Bollywood biopic.
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I doubt anyone in the history of cricket was as obvious a chucker as Ajmal, if I am not wrong his kink was close to 45 degrees.
 
It's simply an unfair question. Amir's career has been so unique that it's not easy to compare. We don't know what could have been for both Amir and Asif. I personally think had Amir not been banned, this wouldn't be a conversation. I know a lot of people like to downplay and belittle his pre-ban bowling by saying there were only good spells, but THAT many good spells before age 19 is incredible. One could only imagine what he could have went on to do as he got better and his pace increased (he was already comfortably bowling in the 140-150 kmh range). He had so much potential. I also cannot fault someone for thinking Bumrah would still be better. But one cannot convincingly say either answer
 
chinaman00 said:
To be clear, Bumrah isn’t chucking, just as Shoaib Akhter & Malinga weren’t chuckers.

The problem is this hilarious hype of Bumrah by the Indians which is undeserved. When it’s all said and done he won’t even make it to the top 50 fast bowlers from Asia.
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He would be behind wasim waqar imran shoaib and asif i would say. He isn't that good. Even in his own team he isn't the best.

He is lucky to be facing weak batsmen in drs era.
 
hafizexpress said:
It's simply an unfair question. Amir's career has been so unique that it's not easy to compare. We don't know what could have been for both Amir and Asif. I personally think had Amir not been banned, this wouldn't be a conversation. I know a lot of people like to downplay and belittle his pre-ban bowling by saying there were only good spells, but THAT many good spells before age 19 is incredible. One could only imagine what he could have went on to do as he got better and his pace increased (he was already comfortably bowling in the 140-150 kmh range). He had so much potential. I also cannot fault someone for thinking Bumrah would still be better. But one cannot convincingly say either answer
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If we go on the basis of what could be,

Then Shane Bond would be better than most fast bowlers in history.

Before his ban, Amir had bowled in 4 countries. His avg in 3 of them were in 40s. Only in England did he avg 19.xx This was his test performance.

We have to go by what actually has happened.

Bumrah has missed 2-3 years due to injury.
 
hafizexpress said:
It's simply an unfair question. Amir's career has been so unique that it's not easy to compare. We don't know what could have been for both Amir and Asif. I personally think had Amir not been banned, this wouldn't be a conversation. I know a lot of people like to downplay and belittle his pre-ban bowling by saying there were only good spells, but THAT many good spells before age 19 is incredible. One could only imagine what he could have went on to do as he got better and his pace increased (he was already comfortably bowling in the 140-150 kmh range). He had so much potential. I also cannot fault someone for thinking Bumrah would still be better. But one cannot convincingly say either answer
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Lol actually he's been lucky he didnt have to play that time period.. Otherwise he could've picks up injuries and could've curtained his career.. Thats the power of ifs and buts..
 
RidiculousMan said:
Bumrah won India WT20 title

Amir won Pakistan WT20 as well as CT
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In terms of trophy cabinet Amir >.

However bumrah is >>>>> Peak Amir.

Bumrah is easily top 10 bowlers of all time. The big stain on his career is his NZ record. He's shockingly poor against NZ.
 
mominsaigol said:
In terms of trophy cabinet Amir >.

However bumrah is >>>>> Peak Amir.

Bumrah is easily top 10 bowlers of all time. The big stain on his career is his NZ record. He's shockingly poor against NZ.
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Really the only question mark left but it's hardly a huge blackspot. All the greats have a question mark or two and given the huge body of work he's put in I have no doubt he'll figure it out.

For me all the questions have been answered. The true mark of greatness is to answer the call - to step up when the team most needs it. He delivered in the T20 World Cup final and now as captain in the first test of one of the most hyped Test series of all time.

Nothing left to prove. Now he just has to plug away and keep the consistency up for the next 3-4 years to let the cement set on his massive legacy.
 
mominsaigol said:
In terms of trophy cabinet Amir >.

However bumrah is >>>>> Peak Amir.

Bumrah is easily top 10 bowlers of all time. The big stain on his career is his NZ record. He's shockingly poor against NZ.
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That's an exception. Sir Viv was poor against NZ too. Ponting against India.
 
cricketjoshila said:
That's an exception. Sir Viv was poor against NZ too. Ponting against India.
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Which is why neither viv nor pointing will ever be Bradman and why Bumrah will never he Mcgrath.

Bumrah is top 10, no need to put him top 1
 
Amir no question
Bumrah wouldn't concede 17 runs in a super over vs USA.

Asif was a genius though. Sad he got caught up in so many controversies otherwise he could've been our greatest bowler ever.
 
cricketjoshila said:
If we go on the basis of what could be,

Then Shane Bond would be better than most fast bowlers in history.

Before his ban, Amir had bowled in 4 countries. His avg in 3 of them were in 40s. Only in England did he avg 19.xx This was his test performance.

We have to go by what actually has happened.

Bumrah has missed 2-3 years due to injury.
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Bumrah is greater than Shane bond ever was. Easily in all formats. Even before his career ending injury.
 
mominsaigol said:
Which is why neither viv nor pointing will ever be Bradman and why Bumrah will never he Mcgrath.

Bumrah is top 10, no need to put him top 1
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Sir Viv is the best batsman for quite a number of greats.

And Bradman isn't number one. He played all his Cricket in 2 countries. He was the best of a amateur era. Sachin Tendulkar, Viv Richards played in more varied conditions. Much better bowlers.

McGrath is one of the best, Malcolm Marshall and Wasim Akram are as good if not better.

Bumrah isn't number one he needs atleast 150 more test wickets with the same numbers to get into that discussion.

But this thread is about Amir and Asif, who are comfortably behind Bumrah.
 
Hikaru said:
Laughable comparison. Amir was a Dinda level bowler compared to Bumrah. Asif was far better, but a few notches below Bumrah.

When we talk Bumrah, he is McGrath, Akram and Ambrose league. Comparing these fixers to him is just wild.
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In tests bumrah = asif, but overall bumrah is far far ahead. Asif would also have taken wickets of these past it australian batsman on these wickets.
 
Katwalindian said:
At 18 I think, easily a 400 wicket bowler if not banned.
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I agree. People are getting caught up on his averages before getting banned. He was only 17 and 18, he's not meant to have great numbers at that age. But you could see that he was capable of dominating and capable of making an impact. One could only expect greatness from him. Again, this doesn't make him better than Bumrah, but people need to stop making Amir look like a peasant just bc they want to say Bumrah is better. His numbers can make a case alone but at the end of the day it's a pointless question
 
cricketjoshila said:
If we go on the basis of what could be,

Then Shane Bond would be better than most fast bowlers in history.

Before his ban, Amir had bowled in 4 countries. His avg in 3 of them were in 40s. Only in England did he avg 19.xx This was his test performance.

We have to go by what actually has happened.

Bumrah has missed 2-3 years due to injury.
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Amir's young age has to be considered here. Nobody at 17 and 18 should be expected to have world beating numbers. One could clearly see him get better and he had already shown that he was capable of making an impact.

And I agree, with whatever we saw of Shane Bond, one could make a good case about him potentially having been one of the greatest ever and that's fine! Does it mean he was? No, but he gives reason to believe as such.

Similarly with Amir, we are not doing ifs and buts, it's making an assumption based on what we saw of him at such an early age. Despite not having amazing numbers overall, he showed what he was capable of.

My point was, we should compare Bumrah with someone whose career wasn't curtailed like Amir's. Sure, Bumrah lost a couple of years to injury, but he had already established himself and set his foot in his career. As a teenager coming up, your early 20s are instrumental for growth and development and that's when players begin making something of their career.

I still think that this is an unfair comparison, and I'm not even saying that Bumrah wouldn't be the better bowler anyway.
 
How many Tests Amir played after his return?

Age 24 to 27.

quick check shows

22 tests 68 wickets 31.51 average 69.8 strike rate

Many bowlers make debut only at 24. For instance Mohammad Siraj made debut at 25 who is only 2 years younger than Amir. He has 85 wickets at 29 average.
 
Hikaru said:
Laughable comparison. Amir was a Dinda level bowler compared to Bumrah. Asif was far better, but a few notches below Bumrah.

When we talk Bumrah, he is McGrath, Akram and Ambrose league. Comparing these fixers to him is just wild.
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League starts
Sir Curtly Ambrose - 405 wkts
Wasim Akram - 414 wkts
Glenn McGrath - 563 wkts
League ends

Long way to go
Jasprit Bumrah - 181 wkts

:inti
 
hafizexpress said:
Amir's young age has to be considered here. Nobody at 17 and 18 should be expected to have world beating numbers. One could clearly see him get better and he had already shown that he was capable of making an impact.

And I agree, with whatever we saw of Shane Bond, one could make a good case about him potentially having been one of the greatest ever and that's fine! Does it mean he was? No, but he gives reason to believe as such.

Similarly with Amir, we are not doing ifs and buts, it's making an assumption based on what we saw of him at such an early age. Despite not having amazing numbers overall, he showed what he was capable of.

My point was, we should compare Bumrah with someone whose career wasn't curtailed like Amir's. Sure, Bumrah lost a couple of years to injury, but he had already established himself and set his foot in his career. As a teenager coming up, your early 20s are instrumental for growth and development and that's when players begin making something of their career.

I still think that this is an unfair comparison, and I'm not even saying that Bumrah wouldn't be the better bowler anyway.
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Making debut at a young age is no guarantee of success.

He only did well in England. Rest everywhere he was below avg.

It doesn't matter when you make your debut, what matters is where you end up.

Amir returned to cricket at age 24.Or am i wrong with the dates?

Bumrah made his test debut at 24.

Pakistani bowlers are heavily hyped. Look at how SSA was hyped. If he has been banned like Amir, we would have had similar threads on him. Thankfully he wasn't banned.

But we know how good he really is.
 
We can also imagine a scenario where Amir completely drops under the radar and ends up with a more nothing career than he has achieved even now.

I'm not sure why this hypothetical Amir is being compared to Bumrah.

There are many other "if onlys in sport".

We can only judge what's in front of us and as it stands Bumrah has blown away Amirs career and the career of many Pakistani bowlers.
 
cricketjoshila said:
Making debut at a young age is no guarantee of success.

He only did well in England. Rest everywhere he was below avg.

It doesn't matter when you make your debut, what matters is where you end up.

Amir returned to cricket at age 24.Or am i wrong with the dates?

Bumrah made his test debut at 24.

Pakistani bowlers are heavily hyped. Look at how SSA was hyped. If he has been banned like Amir, we would have had similar threads on him. Thankfully he wasn't banned.

But we know how good he really is.
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Shaheen hadn't delivered any World Cup or anything, and we all know that he is what he is now due to his injuries in 2022. But yes, since he's presently playing we'll take whatever we have of him and yes he is and will be extremely inferior to Bumrah.

Amir's case is something that no player will ever experience. And yes, he returned at age 24 after 5 years of NOTHING. To be back and bowling at the international level after no professional cricket for 5 years is incredible on its own, and then he immediately bowled the most balls by any bowler in cricket for the following 2-3 years. He also had three dropped catches for every 1 wicket. The mental stress also from the conflicted dressing room on him. This is why I feel that his career is unique, and that his overall talents are greater than what his numbers show, if his 2 ICC trophies already don't show enough. He's a difficult one to compare other bowlers to.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
We can also imagine a scenario where Amir completely drops under the radar and ends up with a more nothing career than he has achieved even now.

I'm not sure why this hypothetical Amir is being compared to Bumrah.

There are many other "if onlys in sport".

We can only judge what's in front of us and as it stands Bumrah has blown away Amirs career and the career of many Pakistani bowlers.
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James Pattinson was a case in point. When he started he was destined to be a generational talent. At the age of 21 on debut destroyed the NZ batting line up with a 5 wicket haul. Reduced the opposition to 28 for 5 taking all 5 wickets. Then series of injuries followed. A genuine talent lost his career to injuries.
 
cricketjoshila said:
Making debut at a young age is no guarantee of success.

He only did well in England. Rest everywhere he was below avg.

It doesn't matter when you make your debut, what matters is where you end up.

Amir returned to cricket at age 24.Or am i wrong with the dates?

Bumrah made his test debut at 24.

Pakistani bowlers are heavily hyped. Look at how SSA was hyped. If he has been banned like Amir, we would have had similar threads on him. Thankfully he wasn't banned.

But we know how good he really is.
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Is this coming from the guy who acts like every Indian bowler crossing 140 kph is the second coming of Shoaib Akhtar? :inti
 
DeadlyVenom said:
We can also imagine a scenario where Amir completely drops under the radar and ends up with a more nothing career than he has achieved even now.

I'm not sure why this hypothetical Amir is being compared to Bumrah.

There are many other "if onlys in sport".

We can only judge what's in front of us and as it stands Bumrah has blown away Amirs career and the career of many Pakistani bowlers.
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i actually didn't read OP at first but now that I see it, if we are just going based on as things stand, then of course, Bumrah is in a different class.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
James Pattinson was a case in point. When he started he was destined to be a generational talent. At the age of 21 on debut destroyed the NZ batting line up with a 5 wicket haul. Reduced the opposition to 28 for 5 taking all 5 wickets. Then series of injuries followed. A genuine talent lost his career to injuries.
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Could very well have happened to Amir as well. Don't know why people are only considering the best case scenario for him
 
mb3407 said:
Could very well have happened to Amir as well. Don't know why people are only considering the best case scenario for him
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Shane Bond is another guy whose career didn't go the expected distance. One cannot extrapolate one's career based on small sample. Bedi said Ajantha Mendis will end up with 500 wickets after just one seriers. Look where he is now.
 
Combined that with 47 test wickets at home at Avg of 17.

I think it's safe to say that this thread should be closed. We are comparing bowlers in totally different class in this thread.

Once Bumrah has 100 plus home test wicket, I don't think much is left to prove for him. You don't need to accumulate cheap 80-100 wickets against BD/Zim etc to get volume, that's hardly counts for anything. I disagree with posters who are stuck with some threash hold of wickets to define greatness. Greatness is simply what you have achieved in your entire career and if you have achieved drastially more than others with 250 test wickets then you are just better. You don't need to add 50-70 wickets against BD/Zim etc to make you great. That's just silly.
 
mominsaigol said:
Which is why neither viv nor pointing will ever be Bradman and why Bumrah will never he Mcgrath.

Bumrah is top 10, no need to put him top 1
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Sir Viv is the top batsman of all time, Bradman played against a single team most of his career.
 
mb3407 said:
Steyn's wicket count and avg is very surprising!
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SA generally gets less number of tests and he got lots of super flat wickets when touring Eng/Aus. That's why this focus on volume is illogical. Root has played 150 tests and that's a function of playing for Eng. All payers including Root/Steyn should be judged based on stepping up to help their team in tough away tours. If you have not stepped up then does not matter if you have 10K runs or 400 wickets. If you have stepped up regularlly then it matters even if you have 7K runs or 200 wickets.

I rate Steyn high because he bowled many match changing spells in Eng/Aus/Ind to help his team in series. I don't rate him for volume or wickets of lower average due to playing more cricket in SA. Volume needs to be enough to judge, that's about it.
 
mb3407 said:
Steyn's wicket count and avg is very surprising!
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To make it more clear the point I was making, you can see 5-fers in wins away against non-minnows.

Top 5 impactful bowlers and Steyn is right up there in half century of test cricket. That matters way more.


1732643898501.png
 
Shafikapeo said:
Pakistan has a history of producing chuckers like Shoaib Akhtar, Mohammad Hasnain, Muhammad Hafiz and Saeed Ajmal. Fortunately, the rest of the world caught on to the tactic of bowling with full sleeves and reported it to the ICC, forcing these players to undergo biomechanical testing. However, just because this happened to them doesn’t mean it will happen to Bumrah.

According to ICC regulations, a bowling action is deemed illegal if the bowler’s elbow extension exceeds 15 degrees at the point of delivery. This allowance accounts for the natural flexion of the elbow during the bowling motion. If a bowler’s arm straightens beyond this limit, it is considered chucking or illegal bowling.

Bumrah’s action has been thoroughly tested and reviewed by experts and match officials multiple times since his debut in international cricket, and no evidence has been found to suggest he exceeds the 15-degree threshold. If Pakistan genuinely believes otherwise, they are welcome to report it.
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Can you provide the results of the tests.
 
Buffet said:
SA generally gets less number of tests and he got lots of super flat wickets when touring Eng/Aus. That's why this focus on volume is illogical. Root has played 150 tests and that's a function of playing for Eng. All payers including Root/Steyn should be judged based on stepping up to help their team in tough away tours. If you have not stepped up then does not matter if you have 10K runs or 400 wickets. If you have stepped up regularlly then it matters even if you have 7K runs or 200 wickets.

I rate Steyn high because he bowled many match changing spells in Eng/Aus/Ind to help his team in series. I don't rate him for volume or wickets of lower average due to playing more cricket in SA. Volume needs to be enough to judge, that's about it.
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The biggest advantage Root has was he got to play so many tests when he was at his peak. A serious disadvanage for Sachin who played only half the number of tests that root played when he was at his peak. If your peak coincides with a lot of test matches compared to other phases of your career you are likely to have better numbers to show for.
 
ravisurya said:
I doubt anyone in the history of cricket was as obvious a chucker as Ajmal, if I am not wrong his kink was close to 45 degrees.
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His action deteriorated over time. I saw him from 2010 and there were visible diff in his bent in 2014 and 2010
 
jnaveen1980 said:
The biggest advantage Root has was he got to play so many tests when he was at his peak. A serious disadvanage for Sachin who played only half the number of tests that root played when he was at his peak. If your peak coincides with a lot of test matches compared to other phases of your career you are likely to have better numbers to show for.
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Problem is - I don't see better numbers for Root in tough tours despite playing a lot in his peak.

Root has played 18 tests in his peak period in the last 5 years in Ind, Aus, SA. No one can ague that these 3 venues are the 3 hardest place to your for Eng batsmen. And he has average of 39 with 2 tons without any great series.

He does not have a any great series where he scored heavily in tough tours. Peak or non-peak period does not matter. You got to score heavily in some tough tours to be rated high. His peers Smith, Kohli have lots of ATG tough away tours in their career.

In past also, batsmen were rated for that and not for volume or average. I remmeber few SL batsmen used to avearge high but I don't even remember all their names now.

So Root get finish as lower tier ATG for me if he can have one ATG series in India, Aus, SA etc before he hangs his boot. If not then it's hard to make a case that he belongs there based on having great home series or having great away series against weaker teams.
 
Comparing Bumrah with Asif & Aamir is like comparing Kohli with Umar Akmal & Ahmed Shahzad. At one point it probably made sense but right now its ridiculously ludicrous

Forget Asif & Aamir. Bumrah has 4 test wins in Australia. Imran , Wasim & Waqar won 4 tests in Australia combined. That's the level of Bumrah vis a vis Imran , Wasim & Waqar
 
Buffet said:
Problem is - I don't see better numbers for Root in tough tours despite playing a lot in his peak.

Root has played 18 tests in his peak period in the last 5 years in Ind, Aus, SA. No one can ague that these 3 venues are the 3 hardest place to your for Eng batsmen. And he has average of 39 with 2 tons without any great series.

He does not have a any great series where he scored heavily in tough tours. Peak or non-peak period does not matter. You got to score heavily in some tough tours to be rated high. His peers Smith, Kohli have lots of ATG tough away tours in their career.

In past also, batsmen were rated for that and not for volume or average. I remmeber few SL batsmen used to avearge high but I don't even remember all their names now.

So Root get finish as lower tier ATG for me if he can have one ATG series in India, Aus, SA etc before he hangs his boot. If not then it's hard to make a case that he belongs there based on having great home series or having great away series against weaker teams.
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Joe Root has 0 tons against Australia in Australia. That's a huge red flag in his cv. U cannot underperform against the best team of ur era & be rated as ATG

Many great players have a bogey team but if ur bogey team is ur greatest rival - then it looks worse
 
jnaveen1980 said:
What is theere to surpass lol They hardly had a career to be compared with any bowler let alone Bumrah. May be we can compare with Mohammad Siraj.
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I was just trying to act a bit fair. Posters were less prejudiced on this thread when I had made that post.
 
I still have serious doubts about his action. His action isn't clean and he chucks. But if we accept that nothing will be done due to Ind power then he will go down as one of the greats.
 
hafizexpress said:
I agree. People are getting caught up on his averages before getting banned. He was only 17 and 18, he's not meant to have great numbers at that age. But you could see that he was capable of dominating and capable of making an impact. One could only expect greatness from him. Again, this doesn't make him better than Bumrah, but people need to stop making Amir look like a peasant just bc they want to say Bumrah is better. His numbers can make a case alone but at the end of the day it's a pointless question
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Amir at 17>>>>>>Bumrah at 17.
 
NishanKonar said:
Joe Root has 0 tons against Australia in Australia. That's a huge red flag in his cv. U cannot underperform against the best team of ur era & be rated as ATG

Many great players have a bogey team but if ur bogey team is ur greatest rival - then it looks worse
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I am aware of that. You are correct, you can't be going missing against your biggest opponent's home where you play regularly and be rated high, but I was making a point that he doesn't have ATG series like Kohli/Smith had in SA, Eng,Aus, India. Even after including NZ, Root has just 6 tons despite playing 90 innings while his peers have double that number.

After covering top 5 test teams, what's left after that, bottom 3 team and home? Well, that's not greatness in any era. Falls a bit short of top tier no matter how many runs you score. If he has an ATG series in Aus next time, I will count him as a lower tier ATG otherwise not. It's specially true because he is not great in short format to begin with. Just having some random ton in Aus does not fix the issue of him having zero ATG series against top 4-5 sides in test cricket. No era had any ATG batsman like that.

Aus in transition next time and aging pacers should provide fantastic oppurtunity for Root.
 
sweep_shot said:
If it was that easy, how come his peers also didn't average high like him?
Click to expand...
First, there werent that many active players at that time. Still some players did average close to 60.

Secondly bradman played only in two countries and against 1 opposition majorly

Its proven by stats that playing in a specific country against specific teams might suit certain players and they might excel more as compared to their peers.e.g., hussey avgs 110 against ban or sangakara avgs 75 to 80 against pakistan and close to 90 against bangla.

Bradman might ve been greatest of that era but you cant just put him above everyone. Thats my thought. Longevity and different conditions and different bowlers do matter.
 
Hyder said:
First, there werent that many active players at that time. Still some players did average close to 60.

Secondly bradman played only in two countries and against 1 opposition majorly

Its proven by stats that playing in a specific country against specific teams might suit certain players and they might excel more as compared to their peers.e.g., hussey avgs 110 against ban or sangakara avgs 75 to 80 against pakistan and close to 90 against bangla.

Bradman might ve been greatest of that era but you cant just put him above everyone. Thats my thought. Longevity and different conditions and different bowlers do matter.
Click to expand...
Sehwag will be close to bradman level if he only played against Pakistan
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Parthiv patel at 16 >>> Bradman at 16. lol It doesn't work like that
Click to expand...
It doesn't indeed. That's why this comparison is meaningless when Amir's career got curtailed when he was arguably better than anyone and most people in history at his age. Obviously when you look at how things are now then you would say Bumrah is better, but what's the point then? These questions should be asked about other actual comparable players.

Who knew a scrawny 17 year old kid would open the bowling in the final of a world cup against the best batsmen of the tournament and toy with him and get him out
 
sweep_shot said:
LOL. Check stats again.

Seems like only salty Indians downplay Bradman. Very distasteful.
Click to expand...
First of all i am not indian. Secondly mind answering the other points too.

Hussey avgs 110
Sanga avgs 95 and 75
Against specific opponents

Yes bradman was greatest of his time but just to put him above everyone doesnt sit right
 
Hyder said:
First of all i am not indian. Secondly mind answering the other points too.

Hussey avgs 110
Sanga avgs 95 and 75
Against specific opponents

Yes bradman was greatest of his time but just to put him above everyone doesnt sit right
Click to expand...

You are not an Indian. Apology.

Anyway, we are going off-topic. Statistically speaking, he is the best batter of all time. Remember that he played in an era when there were no helmets and pitches were not covered much.
 
sweep_shot said:
You are not an Indian. Apology.

Anyway, we are going off-topic. Statistically speaking, he is the best batter of all time. Remember that he played in an era when there were no helmets and pitches were not covered much.
Click to expand...
And played vs weak midget bowlers and just a weak amateur era. But he stood out so yes he is a goat
 
Bewal Express said:
I still have serious doubts about his action. His action isn't clean and he chucks. But if we accept that nothing will be done due to Ind power then he will go down as one of the greats.
Click to expand...
Australia have been trying to get him banned but they couldn't cause you know why?
His action is clean. Infact it's too clean. It doesn't bend forward. His arm extends backwards.
 
kron said:
Australia have been trying to get him banned but they couldn't cause you know why?
His action is clean. Infact it's too clean. It doesn't bend forward. His arm extends backwards.
Click to expand...
It isn't. He chucks. If there was no IPL or Ind power he would have been tested more times than anyone else in the modern game.
 
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