Jasprit Bumrah vs Hasan Ali

[big_gamer007]

Both are young talented and have impressive start to their careers.. Who do you think will end their career as a better bowler?

Discuss..

Mods merge this thread if there is an existing one already

 

[santos11]

Hasan is an excellently bowler but Jasprit has the edge for now.

What a fantastic wicket taking
and economical bowler Bumrah has been.

 

[big_gamer007]

Hasan is an excellently bowler but Jasprit has the edge for now.

What a fantastic wicket taking
and economical bowler Bumrah has been.

Agreed also Bumrah looks a couple of Centimeters taller so that should get him [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] vote..

 

[babajee]

Hasan is cut from a different cloth.

 

[Sidilicious]

Hasan will end up being the better overall bowler, but Bumrah is already proving himself to be an excellent bowler and will be a great contributor towards Indian success

 

[jnaveen1980]

I will wait for 2 years before even making a judgement.

 

[IndianFan2018]

Bumhrah will have cushion of 300+ most of the time compared to Hassan Ali who will have 250 or less score to depend.

Challenge forces individuals to achieve more, so Hassan Ali will thrive more as a bowler than Bumhrah #JustMyOpinion

 

[Saurav]

Hasan better in LOIs but Bumrah better overall

 

[troodon]

Hasan Ali > Bumrah. But not by much.

Both of these are bowling better than Amir who is more talented than both of the above.

What amazes me about Bumrah is that he has spinner like runup, but bowls 140k + deliveries.

 

[babajee]

CT performance:

Hasan Ali - 5 matches; 13 wickets; Average 14.69; Economy 4.29

Jasprit Bumrah - 5 matches; 4 wickets; Average 52.50; Economy 5.00

 

[big_gamer007]

Bumrah’s action might hamper his longevity.. Currently both are pretty close, This is first time for a while two top pacers from both teams are so close by..

 

[babajee]

Jasprit Bumrah against non-minnows (Aus, Eng, NZ, Pak, SA) in ODI:

24 matches 34 wickets 29.08 average 5.05 economy

Hasan Ali against non-minnows (Aus, Eng, India, NZ, SA) in ODI:

17 matches 36 wickets 25.33 average 5.98 economy

 

[jnaveen1980]

There is a difference though. Bumrah opens the bowling, bowls in power play and finishes the innings. Hasan Ali does most of the bowling in the middle overs? Is that a correct statement?

 

[babajee]

Bumrah just isn’t a strike bowler...

The only time he’s taken more than 2 wickets against non minnows is a 3fer against NZ at Kanpur.

 

[Syed1]

There is a difference though. Bumrah opens the bowling, bowls in power play and finishes the innings. Hasan Ali does most of the bowling in the middle overs? Is that a correct statement?

Hasan Ali bowls in the middle and death.



Hasan also doesn't get to use the new ball and has to pick up wickets with old ball which may or may not be seaming.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Both have to sustain this for prolonged period. Who knows they may get better and better or disappear into oblivion. You never know.

 

[BlackShadow]

Jasprit Bumrah against non-minnows (Aus, Eng, NZ, Pak, SA) in ODI:

24 matches 34 wickets 29.08 average 5.05 economy

Hasan Ali against non-minnows (Aus, Eng, India, NZ, SA) in ODI:

17 matches 36 wickets 25.33 average 5.98 economy

Bumrah averages 17.4 outside India after 20 matches.
Hasan averages 24.3 outside UAE after 22 matches.

Clearly, the difference of bowling on Indian and UAE tracks is rather pronounced. Also, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka have been ranked much higher than Pakistan for most of their careers, so you may want to rectify that filter.

 

[Usman Chadda]

Bumrah just isn’t a strike bowler...

The only time he’s taken more than 2 wickets against non minnows is a 3fer against NZ at Kanpur.

That is a very surprising stat.

Hasan is a complete bowler, while Bumrah is more of an LOI specialist. Hasan is good enough to lead the attack, while Bumrah is more of a support, contribute here and there kind of bowler.

 

[babajee]

Bumrah averages 17.4 outside India after 20 matches.
Hasan averages 24.3 outside UAE after 22 matches.

Clearly, the difference of bowling on Indian and UAE tracks is rather pronounced. Also, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka have been ranked much higher than Pakistan for most of their careers, so you may want to rectify that filter.

Haha. Those 4fers against Zimbabwe really helped his average

 

[babajee]

That is a very surprising stat.

Hasan is a complete bowler, while Bumrah is more of an LOI specialist. Hasan is good enough to lead the attack, while Bumrah is more of a support, contribute here and there kind of bowler.

Exactly. Which is why I say that Hasan is cut from a different cloth.

 

[IndianFan2018]

Both have to sustain this for prolonged period. Who knows they may get better and better or disappear into oblivion. You never know.

First failure for Hasan Ali in NZ tour, let's see how he comes back !

 

[EliteCynical]

That is a very surprising stat.

Hasan is a complete bowler, while Bumrah is more of an LOI specialist. Hasan is good enough to lead the attack, while Bumrah is more of a support, contribute here and there kind of bowler.

Pardon my ignorance, but how many tests has Hasan played?

I thought Amir was the leader of the attack no?

 

[IndianFan2018]

Pardon my ignorance, but how many tests has Hasan played?

I thought Amir was the leader of the attack no?

Amir leader only in Eng

 

[BlackShadow]

Haha. Those 4fers against Zimbabwe really helped his average

Just to make you feel better, let's take away Bumrah's Zimbabwe stats -

Bumrah averages 20 outside India after 17 matches.
Hasan averages 24.3 outside UAE after 22 matches.

Again, the difference lies in Indian-UAE tracks. Outside home, Bumrah has outbowled Hasan everywhere in a significant way.

 

[babajee]

Just to make you feel better, let's take away Bumrah's Zimbabwe stats -

Bumrah averages 20 outside India after 17 matches.
Hasan averages 24.3 outside UAE after 22 matches.

Again, the difference lies in Indian-UAE tracks. Outside home, Bumrah has outbowled Hasan everywhere in a significant way.

Sri Lanka really helps his average again )

Outside India in Aus, Eng and SA:

Bumrah averages 29.78, with no 4fer or 5fer after 12 matches.

 

[Usman Chadda]

Pardon my ignorance, but how many tests has Hasan played?

I thought Amir was the leader of the attack no?

I meant Hasan is more of a conventional seamer compared to Bumrah. Don't really consider Bumrah a wicket-taker, Shami is a much better prospect in that sense.

Amir and Hasan both. Amir has had too many off-days for him to be the defacto leader of this pack. When on song, Amir is a notch above Hasan though.

 

[jnaveen1980]

30 matches are way too small a sample in one dayers. Against varied teams, variety of conditions you have to consistently deliver. At this point they are successfull in their own way. But not successful enough to rate them as future stars.

 

[syed abbas]

Both are good bowlers,but Hassan is slightly ahead at the moment.But no one can deny that these two are currently best pacers among the Asian teams.

 

[cricketjoshila]

That is a very surprising stat.

Hasan is a complete bowler, while Bumrah is more of an LOI specialist. Hasan is good enough to lead the attack, while Bumrah is more of a support, contribute here and there kind of bowler.

How many tests have Hassan Ali played? Bumrah hasnt played many yet has a 5fer againist SA in SA.

 

[babajee]

How many tests have Hassan Ali played? Bumrah hasnt played many yet has a 5fer againist SA in SA.

Tests will be Hasan’s strongest format [MENTION=141557]Chief Destroyer[/MENTION]

 

[BlackShadow]

Sri Lanka really helps his average again )

Outside India in Aus, Eng and SA:

Bumrah averages 29.78, with no 4fer or 5fer after 12 matches.

So basically, you want to filter out all his good performances.

Here's the post you came up with -

Jasprit Bumrah against non-minnows (Aus, Eng, NZ, Pak , SA) in ODI:

24 matches 34 wickets 29.08 average 5.05 economy

Hasan Ali against non-minnows (Aus, Eng, India, NZ, SA) in ODI:

17 matches 36 wickets 25.33 average 5.98 economy

Now if you really care about keeping things this fair, how about you chuck Pakistan out from top-5 and give SL their rightful spot in the filter? You don't seem to be doing that. Is it because that makes Bumrah average 2 less than Hasan Ali?

 

[babajee]

So basically, you want to filter out all his good performances.

Here's the post you came up with -



Now if you really care about keeping things this fair, how about you chuck Pakistan out from top-5 and give SL their rightful spot in the filter? You don't seem to be doing that. Is it because that makes Bumrah average 2 less than Hasan Ali? You are biased, accept it.

Hasan also destroyed SL but I didn’t add them to the filter because they are minnows.

Ok just to make you happy:

Bumrah against non minnows (Aus, Eng, NZ, SA, SL):

31 matches 53 wickets Average 23.26

Hasan against non minnows (Aus, Eng, NZ, India, SA, SL)

23 matches 53 wickets Average 21.00


Moh band

 

[jnaveen1980]

This is getting comical lol THey ahve played only 30 matches or so. If we keep filtering it will come down to 15 matches. They are not Ambrose/Waqar Younis to use filters to judge them. Bumrah came in mainly as a death bowling specialist. Now he is expanding his reputation.

 

[Usman Chadda]

To add to the discussion, Hasan Ali has 3-wickets or more 14 times in 30 matches he has played so far. 8 times against the top 6 teams (currently ranked).

Jasprit Bumrah has 6 3-wickets or more hauls in 37 matches he has played so far. 2 times against the top 6 teams (currently ranked).

Hasan has a SR of 24.2, while Bumrah has a SR of 29.

 

[Syed1]

To add to the discussion, Hasan Ali has 3-wickets or more 14 times in 30 matches he has played so far. 8 times against the top 6 teams (currently ranked).

Jasprit Bumrah has 6 3-wickets or more hauls in 37 matches he has played so far. 2 times against the top 6 teams (currently ranked).

Hasan has a SR of 24.2, while Bumrah has a SR of 29.

No neutral analyst will rate Bumrah over Hasan, but for Indians and a certain Pakistani, an Indian is always better.

 

[Usman Chadda]

How many tests have Hassan Ali played? Bumrah hasnt played many yet has a 5fer againist SA in SA.

Comparisons in Tests is futile since both haven't played many matches. I believe Hasan has a much higher ceiling than Bumrah in tests, since he is a conventional seamer.

A small sample size of 30 odd matches in ODI cricket is good enough to form an early opinion though.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Bumrah's entry into ODI was through his T20 exploits in the IPL. Bumrah has decent record in T20 as well.

Last 2 years record by bowlers in T20

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...6;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling

 

[BlackShadow]

Hasan also destroyed SL but I didn’t add them to the filter because they are minnows.

Ok just to make you happy:

Bumrah against non minnows (Aus, Eng, NZ, SA, SL):

31 matches 53 wickets Average 23.26

Hasan against non minnows (Aus, Eng, NZ, India, SA, SL)

23 matches 53 wickets Average 21.00


Moh band

The funny thing about these stats is that if we take out the India-UAE factor, then the stats read -

Bumrah against non minnows (Aus, Eng, NZ, SA, SL) (Outside India):
14 matches 27 wickets Average 16.88 Eco 4.02

Hasan against non minnows (Aus, Eng, NZ, India, SA, SL) (Outside UAE)
18 matches 39 wickets Average 24.4 Eco 5.88


Again, we are back to where we started. Bumrah playing bulk of his matches in India really destroys his stats. Otherwise, he has outbowled Hasan against top teams in comparable conditions.

 

[Usman Chadda]

Bumrah's entry into ODI was through his T20 exploits in the IPL. Bumrah has decent record in T20 as well.

Last 2 years record by bowlers in T20

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...6;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling

Bumrah has played 32 T20I matches as compared to Hasan's 14. Hasan has taken three wickets or more 2 times in his very short career, while Bumrah has taken three wickets or more 3 times. Hasan has a slightly better SR, while Bumrah has a much better economy rate.

 

[big_gamer007]

The funny thing about these stats is that if we take out the India-UAE factor, then the stats read -

Bumrah against non minnows (Aus, Eng, NZ, SA, SL) (Outside India):
14 matches 27 wickets Average 16.88 Eco 4.02

Hasan against non minnows (Aus, Eng, NZ, India, SA, SL) (Outside UAE)
18 matches 39 wickets Average 24.4 Eco 5.88


Again, we are back to where we started. Bumrah playing bulk of his matches in India really destroys his stats. Otherwise, he has outbowled Hasan against top teams in comparable conditions.

Those stats are pretty impressive, the sample size is pretty small but if he can continue somewhat similar stats he’ll be a top notch find..

Good rivalry let’s hope it stays comparable for next 4-5 years atleast and neither of them just fade away.

 

[Usman Chadda]

No neutral analyst will rate Bumrah over Hasan, but for Indians and a certain Pakistani, an Indian is always better.

The skillset is very different for both to be honest. Bumrah is a support bowler, while Hasan is a genuine wicket-taker. For all the talk about India's seamers, the bulk of the damage is still done by the spinners. The reason Pakistan whacked them around in the CT final is because their spinners failed to pose a threat at all.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Bumrah has played 32 T20I matches as compared to Hasan's 14. Hasan has taken three wickets or more 2 times in his very short career, while Bumrah has taken three wickets or more 3 times. Hasan has a slightly better SR, while Bumrah has a much better economy rate.

Bumrah is a known death bowler. He wins matches purely with his death bowling. Great yorker specialist. Unless these guys bowl outswing or take the ball away effortless will not have a decent test career. Bumrah until his novelty wears off might do well. They are good. Nothing special. We have to slice and dice the stats to prove one is better than other.

 

[jnaveen1980]

The skillset is very different for both to be honest. Bumrah is a support bowler, while Hasan is a genuine wicket-taker. For all the talk about India's seamers, the bulk of the damage is still done by the spinners. The reason Pakistan whacked them around in the CT final is because their spinners failed to pose a threat at all.

Didn't Hasan ali get whacked around in the first meeting against india? But for Amir's 3 wicket haul we would have never known what would have happened to Hasan against Kohli.

 

[BlackShadow]

Those stats are pretty impressive, the sample size is pretty small but if he can continue somewhat similar stats he’ll be a top notch find..

Good rivalry let’s hope it stays comparable for next 4-5 years atleast and neither of them just fade away.

If only the fans could cheer their favorite without writing other off. The kind of bias some posters have is astounding.

 

[babajee]

The funny thing about these stats is that if we take out the India-UAE factor, then the stats read -

Bumrah against non minnows (Aus, Eng, NZ, SA, SL) (Outside India):
14 matches 27 wickets Average 16.88 Eco 4.02

Hasan against non minnows (Aus, Eng, NZ, India, SA, SL) (Outside UAE)
18 matches 39 wickets Average 24.4 Eco 5.88


Again, we are back to where we started. Bumrah playing bulk of his matches in India really destroys his stats. Otherwise, he has outbowled Hasan against top teams in comparable conditions.

The only time they have both played in comparable conditions so far (CT), the stats are there for everyone to see.

Hasan Ali - 5 matches; 13 wickets; Average 14.69; Economy 4.29

Jasprit Bumrah - 5 matches; 4 wickets; Average 52.50; Economy 5.00

You can’t say Bumrah has “outbowled Hasan against top teams in comparable conditions” because they’ve only played in comparable conditions against top teams once.

 

[Ellipsism]

The funny thing about these stats is that if we take out the India-UAE factor, then the stats read -

Bumrah against non minnows (Aus, Eng, NZ, SA, SL) (Outside India):
14 matches 27 wickets Average 16.88 Eco 4.02

Hasan against non minnows (Aus, Eng, NZ, India, SA, SL) (Outside UAE)
18 matches 39 wickets Average 24.4 Eco 5.88


Again, we are back to where we started. Bumrah playing bulk of his matches in India really destroys his stats. Otherwise, he has outbowled Hasan against top teams in comparable conditions.

Hasan has a better strike rate, even in the parameters you’ve included. Bit outright to say that Bumrah has outbowled Hasan away from home.

 

[babajee]

Didn't Hasan ali get whacked around in the first meeting against india? But for Amir's 3 wicket haul we would have never known what would have happened to Hasan against Kohli.

Hasan bowled really well the first time round until he got taken apart in the last few overs which ruined his figures.

 

[Usman Chadda]

Bumrah is a known death bowler. He wins matches purely with his death bowling. Great yorker specialist. Unless these guys bowl outswing or take the ball away effortless will not have a decent test career. Bumrah until his novelty wears off might do well. They are good. Nothing special. We have to slice and dice the stats to prove one is better than other.

Hasan bowls a very good outswinger. Thats his stock delivery with the new ball, but I'm not sure if he'll be given the new ball with Abbas and Amir around. South Africa 2018 will showcase his talents better. He has all the ingredients to be a complete blockbuster fast bowler.

 

[BlackShadow]

Didn't Hasan ali get whacked around in the first meeting against india? But for Amir's 3 wicket haul we would have never known what would have happened to Hasan against Kohli.

As per posters here, taking 5 wickets a match and getting tonked around for nothing in the next is how we define a strike bowler. 2 or 3 wickets per match is somehow not the same level of bowling.

 

[troodon]

Hasan Ali has killer instinct.

Hasan can give death stares even to his Captain.

 

[babajee]

Hasan has a better strike rate, even in the parameters you’ve included. Bit outright to say that Bumrah has outbowled Hasan away from home.

SL really helps Bumrah’s stats lol. As if they are a top team

 

[Usman Chadda]

Didn't Hasan ali get whacked around in the first meeting against india? But for Amir's 3 wicket haul we would have never known what would have happened to Hasan against Kohli.

Genuine wicket-taking options will go for runs at times. To Hasan's credit, he has been consistent with his returns so far. Will be a good battle with Kohli, whenever we meet next.

 

[Usman Chadda]

As per posters here, taking 5 wickets a match and getting tonked around for nothing in the next is how we define a strike bowler. 2 or 3 wickets per match is somehow not the same level of bowling.

Hasan ticks all the boxes for a strike-bowler. Take off the blue tinted glasses, any neutral would agree with the assessment that Hasan is a wicket-taker while Bumrah is an economical bowler.

Bumrah got taken downtown in the final for 68 runs in 9 overs, while Hasan conceded 70 in 10 overs. Bumrah went at an ER of 7.55, while Hasan went at 7. Should we stop calling Bumrah an economical bowler based on that? (Hasan managed to pick up a wicket, Bumrah didnt).

 

[jnaveen1980]

Genuine wicket-taking options will go for runs at times. To Hasan's credit, he has been consistent with his returns so far. Will be a good battle with Kohli, whenever we meet next.

Since their stats are relatively similar we just have to wait and watch how they evolve. Bumrah i never rated he would do well in Tests. But he surprised me. I am still not convinced. Both show lot of intensity. Both can be quick albeit Bumrah can be consistently express and beat batsmen with pace. Hasan is more a skiddy bowler like Malinga who can hit the length perfectly and put batsmen in awkward position. But how long before batsmen start finding a way to deal with them is the big question. Comparatively, Bumrah is lot more exposed in the IPL where they have an opportunity play with him and against him.

 

[Ellipsism]

As per posters here, taking 5 wickets a match and getting tonked around for nothing in the next is how we define a strike bowler. 2 or 3 wickets per match is somehow not the same level of bowling.

Lol, didn’t Hasan take like 3 wickets 8-9 games in a row or something.

 

[EliteCynical]

No neutral analyst will rate Bumrah over Hasan, but for Indians and a certain Pakistani, an Indian is always better.

Nope. based on the facts presented, Hasan seems to be comfortably ahead of Bumrah and I dont have any issues accepting it. Heck, he came from being 80 odd ranked to number one in a year so he has to be special. Even thought Bumrah has made rapid strides too, Hasan is ahead IMO, in LOI's (cannot compare tests because sample size is small).

Having said this, I would be worried if I am Sarfaraz. His NZ tour tells me he has been asked to concentrate on his batting a bit more. Hope it does not affect his bowling.

 

[babajee]

If anything, shouldn’t Hasan take more wickets once he learns new ball bowling?

 

[BlackShadow]

The only time they have both played in comparable conditions so far (CT), the stats are there for everyone to see.

Hasan Ali - 5 matches; 13 wickets; Average 14.69; Economy 4.29

Jasprit Bumrah - 5 matches; 4 wickets; Average 52.50; Economy 5.00

You can’t say Bumrah has “outbowled Hasan against top teams in comparable conditions” because they’ve only played in comparable conditions against top teams once.

Fair, and that's why a direct comparison between the two bowlers at this stage is pointless. One played majority of his career in India, other did in UAE. Even the matches away aren't really enough to conclude that Bumrah did better.

I am actually even willing to go by ICC rankings until we reach that point, but when posters refuse to even consider other a bowler worthy of comparison, then it gets quite laughable.

 

[Usman Chadda]

Since their stats are relatively similar we just have to wait and watch how they evolve. Bumrah i never rated he would do well in Tests. But he surprised me. I am still not convinced. Both show lot of intensity. Both can be quick albeit Bumrah can be consistently express and beat batsmen with pace. Hasan is more a skiddy bowler like Malinga who can hit the length perfectly and put batsmen in awkward position. But how long before batsmen start finding a way to deal with them is the big question. Comparatively, Bumrah is lot more exposed in the IPL where they have an opportunity play with him and against him.

I think Hasan will go onto become a very good bowler for Pakistan. His attitude is the best thing about him. Always in your face, always aggressive. You just know he will get you wickets. Also he's not a novelty, that batsmen might get used to him and plan better. He gets wickets by smartly setting up the batsmen time and time again. One such example is the way he has absolutely destroyed Kusal Mendis, time and time again. Watch Mendis' dismissal in the CT group game and you'll realize why this guy is special. Has a mean bouncer, a good yorker and wonderful control on his seam position. Wasn't at his best in New Zealand, still managed to pick up 6 wickets in 4 games there. Plus he bowls at a good click too.

Lets see how he goes in the future.

 

[big_gamer007]

If only the fans could cheer their favorite without writing other off. The kind of bias some posters have is astounding.

Well it’s a Pakistani forum with Indians on it.. One person will post something trollish and the other side would come up and degrade the other player.. That’s how it will always be between the two nations..

 

[troodon]

If anything, shouldn’t Hasan take more wickets once he learns new ball bowling?

New ball bowling is tricky. You can get wickets as well get carted for boundaries.

Most good teams have their opening slots loaded with attacking batsmen. The likes of Guptill/Munro, Sharma/Dhawan, Roy/Hales, Warner/Finch will shred any bowler 7 out of 10 times. The field restrictions play greatly against opening bowlers.

 

[EliteCynical]

I meant Hasan is more of a conventional seamer compared to Bumrah. Don't really consider Bumrah a wicket-taker, Shami is a much better prospect in that sense.

Amir and Hasan both. Amir has had too many off-days for him to be the defacto leader of this pack. When on song, Amir is a notch above Hasan though.

At a gunpoint, if you are asked who is better then who would you choose? The ever consistent Hasan or the occasionally brilliant Amir. Hasan would give you a MoYo like performance everyday but Amir may
give you an Afridi like Box office performance all of a sudden. Who would you choose?

 

[Usman Chadda]

At a gunpoint, if you are asked who is better then who would you choose? The ever consistent Hasan or the occasionally brilliant Amir. Hasan would give you a MoYo like performance everyday but Amir may
give you an Afridi like Box office performance all of a sudden. Who would you choose?

Very tough one. I would lean towards Hasan, since his attitude is much better than Amir's.

However I firmly believe Amir is the best pace bowler in the sub-continent right now and not doing justice to his talent at all at the moment.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Very tough one. I would lean towards Hasan, since his attitude is much better than Amir's.

However I firmly believe Amir is the best pace bowler in the sub-continent right now and not doing justice to his talent at all at the moment.

Amir is not even half of what he was prior to his ban. He was more fluid. Still he is not that old. He can always come back. Always Wahab Riaz should have been a lot better bowler with his pace. He doesn't think and bowl.

 

[Usman Chadda]

Amir is not even half of what he was prior to his ban. He was more fluid. Still he is not that old. He can always come back. Always Wahab Riaz should have been a lot better bowler with his pace. He doesn't think and bowl.

I have watched every match Muhammad Amir has ever played, before the ban and after. The only technical difference I, as an amateur cricket fan, have noticed in Amir's bowling is that he bowls quite a bit away from the stumps as compared to before. His pace is pretty much the same. Its the attitude thats different. The young Amir was hungry for success and it showed out there. Some of his best spells weren't even on that England tour. He bowled his heart out against Australia in 2009-10, but didn't pick up many wickets. The Amir of now displays that attitude in moments.

That spell in the CT final is the best spell I have ever seen in my life. Never been so pumped up as a Pakistan cricket fan. I have watched Wasim, Waqar, Shoaib, Sami etc deliver awesome spells over the years, but this one was just unreal. The Indian trio were in ferocious form throughout that tournament. The world was only talking about these guys when it came to the final. Whether it would be the class of Sharma, the experience of Dhawan or the legend of Kohli that would see India through to yet another ICC title. They had beat up just about every team till then and looked invincible. Then this guy turns it up and just finishes the match right there and then by dismissing all three by himself. It was the kind of spell that creates cricketers in your country, inspires generations to take up the sport. Don't get me wrong, Hasan was the jaan of Pakistan in that tournament, but in that moment Amir just owned the Champions Trophy 2017. He owned the emotion of every Pakistan fan, male, female, adult, kid wherever they were. I dont expect you to understand this emotion, but that was just how it was for us.

And that still leaves hope for Amir as a bowler in us Pakistan fans. If he can motivate himself and deliver consistently, we will still be able to witness a wonderful fast bowler in action and feel proud to have him represent us.

 

[EliteCynical]

Very tough one. I would lean towards Hasan, since his attitude is much better than Amir's.

However I firmly believe Amir is the best pace bowler in the sub-continent right now and not doing justice to his talent at all at the moment.

Ok so here is my problem with your argument. When indians 'firmly' believe that Bumrah is better or on par with Hasan, you and [MENTION=143344]babajee[/MENTION] bring out stats using hi-fi custom filters to prove Bumrah cannot hold a candle to Hasan. But when the question is posted wrt Amir, you 'firmly' believe he is the best pace bowler in the sub continent even though there is no evidence whatsover to prove it. He has been an occasional box office during key encounters I agree, but the numbers just do not do justice.

So why this double standard of measuring an Indian bowler through 100 filters and giving Amir, the benefit of doubt?

 

[EliteCynical]

I have watched every match Muhammad Amir has ever played, before the ban and after. The only technical difference I, as an amateur cricket fan, have noticed in Amir's bowling is that he bowls quite a bit away from the stumps as compared to before. His pace is pretty much the same. Its the attitude thats different. The young Amir was hungry for success and it showed out there. Some of his best spells weren't even on that England tour. He bowled his heart out against Australia in 2009-10, but didn't pick up many wickets. The Amir of now displays that attitude in moments.

That spell in the CT final is the best spell I have ever seen in my life. Never been so pumped up as a Pakistan cricket fan. I have watched Wasim, Waqar, Shoaib, Sami etc deliver awesome spells over the years, but this one was just unreal. The Indian trio were in ferocious form throughout that tournament. The world was only talking about these guys when it came to the final. Whether it would be the class of Sharma, the experience of Dhawan or the legend of Kohli that would see India through to yet another ICC title. They had beat up just about every team till then and looked invincible. Then this guy turns it up and just finishes the match right there and then by dismissing all three by himself. It was the kind of spell that creates cricketers in your country, inspires generations to take up the sport. Don't get me wrong, Hasan was the jaan of Pakistan in that tournament, but in that moment Amir just owned the Champions Trophy 2017. He owned the emotion of every Pakistan fan, male, female, adult, kid wherever they were. I dont expect you to understand this emotion, but that was just how it was for us.

And that still leaves hope for Amir as a bowler in us Pakistan fans. If he can motivate himself and deliver consistently, we will still be able to witness a wonderful fast bowler in action and feel proud to have him represent us.

Is there an Amir v Hasan thread? You have made some very good points, but purely on gut feel. Amir is yet to take a five-fer in ODI cricket but you still seem to bestow a lot of faith on him, I think that is doing injustice to a bowler like Hasan who was number one bowler until recently. I understand you see something in Amir, like that horse you punted on, or a stock you bought which you are sure would soar soon, but time seems to be running out and quite frankly I think Amir is in Hasan's shadow right now.

 

[babajee]

Ok so here is my problem with your argument. When indians 'firmly' believe that Bumrah is better or on par with Hasan, you and [MENTION=143344]babajee[/MENTION] bring out stats using hi-fi custom filters to prove Bumrah cannot hold a candle to Hasan. But when the question is posted wrt Amir, you 'firmly' believe he is the best pace bowler in the sub continent even though there is no evidence whatsover to prove it. He has been an occasional box office during key encounters I agree, but the numbers just do not do justice.

So why this double standard of measuring an Indian bowler through 100 filters and giving Amir, the benefit of doubt?

Bumrah is definitely better than Amir at the moment, but Amir at his best is better than Bumrah and even Hasan. That’s why he’s been given “benefit of the doubt” as he has the ability to be the best pacer from Asia

 

[Usman Chadda]

Ok so here is my problem with your argument. When indians 'firmly' believe that Bumrah is better or on par with Hasan, you and [MENTION=143344]babajee[/MENTION] bring out stats using hi-fi custom filters to prove Bumrah cannot hold a candle to Hasan. But when the question is posted wrt Amir, you 'firmly' believe he is the best pace bowler in the sub continent even though there is no evidence whatsover to prove it. He has been an occasional box office during key encounters I agree, but the numbers just do not do justice.

So why this double standard of measuring an Indian bowler through 100 filters and giving Amir, the benefit of doubt?

When did I say Bumrah cannot hold a candle to Hasan? I said they both have different skill-sets and contribute to their teams in different ways. Calling Bumrah a support bowler and economical doesn't mean he cannot hold a candle to Hasan, does it?

Also, you can believe what you want. Stats are just a way to judge the current scenario. If you put up Amir's, I would agree he has been disappointing. But I, as a Pakistani cricket fan, have a right to have an opinion that Amir is the best pacer from the subcontinent right now.

 

[Hasan123]

Hasan Ali by a distance. Not interested in stats. I trust my own eye.

 

[Abdullah719]

Is there an Amir v Hasan thread? You have made some very good points, but purely on gut feel. Amir is yet to take a five-fer in ODI cricket but you still seem to bestow a lot of faith on him, I think that is doing injustice to a bowler like Hasan who was number one bowler until recently. I understand you see something in Amir, like that horse you punted on, or a stock you bought which you are sure would soar soon, but time seems to be running out and quite frankly I think Amir is in Hasan's shadow right now.

Good question, as this thread is going off topic somewhat.

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?260796

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Tests will be Hasan’s strongest format [MENTION=141557]Chief Destroyer[/MENTION]

Okay. Why are you telling me?

 

[EliteCynical]

Bumrah is definitely better than Amir at the moment, but Amir at his best is better than Bumrah and even Hasan. That’s why he’s been given “benefit of the doubt” as he has the ability to be the best pacer from Asia

I also agreed (in one of my previous posts) that Hasan is better than Bumrah 'at the moment'. No two ways about it.

When did I say Bumrah cannot hold a candle to Hasan? I said they both have different skill-sets and contribute to their teams in different ways. Calling Bumrah a support bowler and economical doesn't mean he cannot hold a candle to Hasan, does it?

Also, you can believe what you want. Stats are just a way to judge the current scenario. If you put up Amir's, I would agree he has been disappointing. But I, as a Pakistani cricket fan, have a right to have an opinion that Amir is the best pacer from the subcontinent right now.

I am confused mate. You refuse to accept stats but want to go by your gut feel regarding Amir. Same with [MENTION=143344]babajee[/MENTION]. Anyway this is not Amir's thread, so will lay off, but may be we can discuss this in the future sometime.

As of now, for the moment, i agree Hasan is better than Bumrah. No question about it.


My intention was not to prove if Bumrah > Hasan or Hasan > Bumrah. I am not a big fan of comparison threads, my intention was to request uniformity in judgement or thread making while taking non pakistani players into consideration and give them benefit of doubt.

 

[babajee]

Okay. Why are you telling me?

You told me...

I wanna know why

 

[Chief Destroyer]

You told me...

I wanna know why

The red ball does more. He will show his full range of skills in a variety of conditions and he has more time to operate. The longer he can work on the batsman, the greater the chance he will dismiss them because his mental game is superior.

 

[RainMan_]

Bumrah is good, but hasan is better.

 

[Nitya85]

CT performance:

Hasan Ali - 5 matches; 13 wickets; Average 14.69; Economy 4.29

Jasprit Bumrah - 5 matches; 4 wickets; Average 52.50; Economy 5.00

This is getting hilarious now
Are bhai there is A World outside CT
Come out of Champions Trophy

 

[Itachi]

Both have relatively small stats to judge either one.

That's what was wrong with akmal vs kohli thread. It was based upon small stats which got deviated a lot as time did progress.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Both have relatively small stats to judge either one.

That's what was wrong with akmal vs kohli thread. It was based upon small stats which got deviated a lot as time did progress.

Yup lol This could turn out to be a joke thread for one of them although i don't consider either of them as something special. Someone like Ngidi might both of them behind.You never know. Fitness is one of the major issue that can hurt growth of any bowler. Workload will be contributary factor.

 

[AMSS]

Hasan Ali has better SR and Bumrah the better ER in ODIs. Haven't seen Ali much but Bumrah appears a more versatile bowler on account of both opening the bowling and being THE best death bowler currently. Small sample in tests but Hasan doesn't seem to have gone all to well against a weak Windian line-up. If Bumrah can replicate his debut series performances in England, he'd pull far ahead of Hasan.